This is the Truth Network. Welcome to If Not For God. Stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick.
Alright, if not for God with Mike Zwick. Can the sick still be healed today? And what does the Bible actually have to say about it? I've got my friend Jason Hamlet on the line. And welcome to the show, Jason.
Hey, thanks, Mike. Absolutely, man. And so you grew up in the Christian church, and you would always hear, you would always hear Jesus can heal people and stuff like that. But you would pray for people to be healed, and you may not have seen the results that you wanted to see. Is that right?
Yeah, I didn't ever see anyone get healed. I would hear. you know sometimes the the pastor would say uh Praise the Lord, Sister Mary's healed. She's in heaven and will not experience any pain anymore.
Sometimes I'd hear You know, God uses the hands of the doctors, which, you know, I'm not saying right or wrong, but I, you know, I never saw anything miraculous.
Okay, so I mean, what did you so you saw all of this growing up? But you also, I'm sure, read the Bible. Did you see maybe a discrepancy between what you were seeing at that church and what you read in the Bible?
Well, I didn't see it when I was younger. You know, the Bible for me was stories that happened 2,000 years ago.
Okay, so you say, hey, this is something that happened around the time of Jesus, but I'm not seeing it now, so I guess it's not happening today. Yeah, I would I was gonna say that's fairly accurate. And so, you know, so you grew up in the church. You I guess you got saved when you were young, but you ended up, I guess, not kind of falling away and you you went maybe went down the wrong path. Is that right?
We're down many wrong paths. You know, I was. Went up in front of the church. I think I was around five years old, accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, was baptized with water. And, you know, I guess at about the age of You know, I guess started getting bad around 12, 13 years old.
I went into a public school, went from Christian school to public school, and you know, Started drinking and And, you know, they're they're women and you know, you know, next thing I know, I was a I was a complete drug addict for 20 years. shooting up meth, smoking crack, just uh just you know, I was a slave. to it. You know, those things were fun at first, but um I just became a slave. But, you know, I was good.
I had said my prayer. And I had got baptized, so I was going to go to heaven no matter what, right? That's what we're taught, right?
Well, I was definitely under that impression. But you know, I reached a point in my life. Wherein this is hard to explain. But but Every molecule in my body knew that one of two things were going to happen. Either I was going to die or I was going to die and go to hell.
And I've never been in that situation before. And this was towards the end. And so, and I was out and I I was out in another state and so I sold everything that I had and I checked myself into Teen Challenge for life with my parents' help. For like the Yeah, I think I've been to Scene Challenge three or four times. And I was there for three months, and then they kicked me out.
Then I got back on drugs again and you know, I just was, you know, at the point in my life where, you know, Hey, you know, this is the way that God created me.
So, you know, it was kinda it was kinda hopeless, but You know A fella ended up praying for me eventually at a revival. And he didn't ask God to heal me. He didn't ask God to set me free. He commanded the bands to be broken from around my mind that were restricted the way that I thought. And I was instantly set free.
And you know You know, I guess it's according to what you believe. You know, that's a scripture verse. Jesus said, according to your faith.
So be it unto you. And you know, that is such. A strong verse. Because there are people that don't believe that miracles are for today. And so miracles do not happen through those people.
Because according to your faith, so be it unto you. But when people actually mature And they start reading the word of God and they look at it themselves and they break away from what they were taught. And they read verses like this. When you receive the Holy Spirit, you will receive the power and authority. To tread over serpents, to cast out devils, to speak in new tongues.
All right, Jesus clearly commissioned the disciples. It's a lot. Here's what you're going to do. You can go preach the gospel to all of creation. You're going to baptize people.
Make sure you use my name. And use my father's name. and use the Holy Spirit's name. See, we were missing the boat just on that. They say that half the preachers say in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.
That's not actually using the names, but I'm going to continue. He said, you go heal the sick. That's like the third thing he told them. He told us to go heal them. And so when you ask God.
To baptize you with fire and the Holy Spirit. Baptize you with love, you thank Him for it, and you start getting in His Word, you start seeing the truth. You know, the power of the Holy Spirit didn't get any less weak. It's been 2,000 years, but it's just as strong today as he was back then. And we can do these.
His word says, you will be able to, he said, you'll be able to do greater miracles than me if you believe it. But watch out for those people that have a form of godliness but deny this power, have nothing to do with them. Which side of the fence are you on? You don't pick. Because if you're on the fence, you're lukewarm and he'll spit you out of his mouth and he can't spit you out unless you're in him.
It does say that no one's going to be able to pluck you out of our hand. Yes, it sure does. But Jesus says: if you lukewarm, I'm good to say, I will spit you out. And those people were in him. He said, I'm the vine, you're the branch.
Did you butter bear fruit? If not, I'm going to cut you off and throw you in the fire.
So you know, I think people need to get in check. All right? And we need a little brainwashing. Because people's brains need to be washed from some of the stuff we've been taught. Can I give you another example?
Yeah, go ahead.
Okay, I've heard a million scripture verses on the love of money is the root of all evil. Love of money is ruined all evil. You know what? My God wants me to be wealthy. It says, How about this?
Ecclesiastes 10:19. A feast is made for laughter. Wine makes life merry, and money is the answer for everything. That's Solomon. Here's another scripture verse.
Brother, I wish above all things that you would prosper. that your soul would prosper and you'd be in perfect health.
Well, I heard somebody say one time, Jason, they said that you can't live a dream if you can't sell a dream if you're living a nightmare. And we had a guy on named Pastor Ron Harris, and he said, Look, he said, people say, I don't have any money, I don't have any money. He said, The thing is, is that how are you going to be able to help other people? How are you going to be able to help other Christians if you're broke yourself?
Well, you know, you just said something. Those people are saying that they don't have a lot of money. They don't have a lot of money. They don't have a lot of money. You know, life and death is in the power of the tongue.
Your tongue is a little member, but it's a fire that kindleth and it sets on fire the course of nature. You know what kindling is? That little wood you start a fire with? Oh, yeah. Why would you want to set your course of nature and say and curse yourself by saying, I don't have.
Boom. No, money's on the way. It's coming to me. I am blessed. I am favored.
Speak it into existence. Wealthy people have a vision board. They write down their vision and they speak it out loud. It's in Habakkuk chapter 2. Habakkuk.
Who reads Habakkuk? Habakkuk 2 verse 2. The Lord told him, He said, Look, you got this vision. Write it down and declare it. And though it may carry.
That means wait a little bit, take a little bit of time. It will come to pass. You know what? Faith is about believing in what you don't see. You don't need faith to believe in something that you do see.
Speak it, walk it, act it, talk it.
Well, you have to because if you, you know, the Bible says that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. And so you're throwing out a lot of Bible verses that a lot of people don't know. And I think, Jason, a lot of times people go to a church and they hear the preacher speak. It's like they've put their hour in for the week and then they're done and they don't feel like they have to do any work themselves. They don't have to read the Bible for themselves.
And God forbid, if the Bible tells them something different than the preacher told them, well, they're going to go with the preacher because obviously the preacher knows what he's talking about. But no, we take the word of God and we hold it above everything else that we believe. And it's like, oh, no, no.
Well, I know the Bible says this, but my preacher said something different.
So I'm going to go with the preacher. And, you know, the Bible says to work out your own salvation, Jason. Yeah, Paul said, I work out my salvation daily. You know, if you can just say a prayer, why do you need to work it out daily? But I want to go back to something you just said that's very important.
And people have heard this and heard this. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. That's what they've heard. And that's true.
Okay.
So they sit there, they hear it, and they just need to hear the word of God. Here comes faith. But hold on, let's move on. where there's a chapter. And he says, if a man says that he has faith and has no works, Can that type of faith save him question mark that's how the chapter starts And he goes on to say, Oh, vain man, you say you have faith and have no works.
I'll show you my faith by my works. Just as the body without the spirit is dead, faith without works is dead also.
So here's the question. Do you want death faith and what are works? Yeah. Here's what's what are works. Jesus said to the Pharisees: Look, if you're not believing me for what I'm saying, Believe me for what I'm doing.
Believe my works. That's it. In 2 Peter chapter 2 and verse 20, it says, For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein and overcome, it says that the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. It says, For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after they have known it to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it has happened unto them according to the true proverb, the dog is turned to his own vomit.
Again, and the sew that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Well, you said when you were five years old, Jason, you said a prayer. I thought that took care of everything.
Well, you know, that's a sad verse that you just read, and it's also a wonderful verse that you just read. you know, because there's a little part in there that's really wonderful that says, you know, that that those who know And have. Jesus. They're overcome if they fall back into temptation again. And if they do, and if they are overcome, then it's going to be worse for them.
So let's look at the flip side of the coin. Because the Bible says you're going to fall into temptation. You're going to trip. You're going to stumble. But you're not.
My hand's going to be there, and I'm not going to let you fall.
So, only if you are overcome, then your situation would be worse.
So, whatever it is that you're beating yourself up for. Don't condemn yourself, okay? Everybody makes mistakes. The Bible says a righteous man falls seven times, but he gets back up. Look, you got to fall to be righteous, according to that verse.
So, look, we've all made mistakes. Do not beat yourself up, but don't be overcome with your mistakes, with the things that you've done. Get back up. Remember that Jesus loves you, He forgives you, and you overcome it. You have to, because it says, those who overcome to the end shall be saved.
Yeah, yeah, and so what does that tell you if you do not endure until the end? I know Mike it's uh You know, when you start seeing the word like this. Then it gives you the fear of the Lord. And once you start fearing the Lord, that is the beginning of what? Beginning of understanding, the beginning of knowledge, the beginning of wisdom.
Beginning of wisdom. That's right. And see, a lot of people. Don't have the fear of the Lord. I think because they kinda Have this mentality that they've been taught, and it's hard.
to break free from what you've been taught, but when you look at the word of God. and use the understanding that the Holy Spirit gives you. It's a much better place to be. It requires more work, it requires more effort. It does.
It's not easy. It's not easy, believe it. It's not easy being saved, man. Life ain't always going to be good. It's not easy.
Do you think your life's going to be better when you get saved? A lot of times, people literally go through hell. I mean, there's somebody that I just heard about who was over in Africa, and this guy, he was a Christian, and he was sharing the good news of Jesus, and he was beaten within an inch of his life by a few Muslims. And they finally found one of them. And the guy barely lived.
And they said, Look, we found one of the guys who did this to you. All we need is you're okay, and we're going to throw him in prison for the rest of his life. And the guy said, No, he said, In this sentence, he said, I'm going to forgive this guy. When he forgave the Muslim, who beat him almost to death, the Muslim became a Christian, and I believe he brought many Muslims with him. And so, when people see us love like Jesus, because that's what Jesus did, he said, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
They're attracted to Christians. And it's like you said earlier, Jason, it's that the Lord is not willing that any should. Perish, but that all come to repentance. He's not slack. You know, he says the reason he hasn't come back yet is because he wants everybody to come to know the Lord.
And Ezekiel chapter 18, verse 20, it says, The soul that sinneth shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. It says, The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all of his sins that he has committed and keep all my statutes and do that which is right and lawful, he shall surely live. He shall not die.
All of his transgressions that he has committed, they shall not even be mentioned unto him. And his righteousness, he shall live. And this is what he says, and this is what I love: what the Lord does for us. He says, Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die, saith the Lord, and not that he should return from his ways and Shall live. And so, what I hear him saying there in the word of God in Ezekiel chapter 18:23, he's saying that the Lord has no pleasure in throwing anybody to hell, but he wants us to be saved.
He wants us to turn from our wicked ways, but we have to have the fear of the Lord. And each and every day, we have a decision. You know this great story that you told that That fellow that was getting beat, that missionary that was getting beat, he You know, he had when you're going through something like that, and you know, not I'm saying everybody's gotten beat like that, but when you're going through hard times, a lot of times when you're in it. You don't understand, you don't know why. And so You know, if you can trust God in those hard times and still lean on them and lean on them in the good times.
you know, you're ready for more. More of his blessings. Not more hard times. You're ready for more of his blessings. Yeah, that's definitely true.
I just wanted to clarify. Yeah, they got to clarify that. But, you know, one of the things that I was thinking about is: yes, we will have hard times, but the Lord gives us, he gives us miracles. He lets us see some wonderful things. And I believe there was a lady in your church maybe a couple of months ago or so who actually had cancer.
Uh yes, yes, y field. Jesus healed her. He healed her 2,000 years ago, but it came into uh you know, it came in to reality. Um When we pray for, yes. Things do happen today.
Now, like you said, when you prayed for her, it's not like you just said, Dear Lord, please heal this woman, or was that what you did? No, because I didn't have results that way when when I curse the cancer in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, which you know, hey. You know, Elijah.
Okay.
It was Elisha, excuse me. He, you know, he cursed the people that were making fun of him. I cursed the cancer in the name of the Lord. command it to die, command all the blood to quit flowing to it. Mm-hmm.
It told the s told the spirit of death to leave. called into existence, spoke into existence of a new heavenly immune system. commanded all blood flow and oxygen to quit flowing to the cancer. for all the good sales to go and devour the bad sales. It's along those lines right there, but I told it what to do and use the name of Jesus Christ.
And when you when you speak things and use the name of Jesus Christ, it it really just it it has to it has to do it. And if we do this and we exercise this, just this little thing here. Like Jesus, I mean, he tried to tell the disciples all along, you know, he told he he cursed the fig tree. And the disciples, they were like, excited, they're like, oh, master, show us something to increase our faith. You know, he didn't show me anything, he pointed over there to a mountain.
He said, look, those. He said, If you say to that mountain, Jump Hill job. Yeah, I'm I'm just paraphrased phrasing. Yeah, and these disciples, you know, they were they were they took them in as a literal word He didn't say if you ask God to move the mountain for you. You know, he said you're more than a conqueror.
He said, put on the full armor of God. Conquerors fight battles. Conquerors win battles and win wars.
So you've got to do a little fighting, and it's with the Word of God. It's, you know, His tongue is sharper than any two-edged sword, and we're created in His image. I mean, it's pretty clear and obvious.
Well, and this is not just something that's theoretical. Have you ever heard of the Mochatam miracle? Not at all. It's in the tenth century, and it was a Copt it was in Coptic Christian history. And they were living in a Muslim area, and the the leader of the Muslims said, It says in your word, It says that if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can tell this mountain to move and it will move.
And he told them, he said, these are the options that you have. He said, you can leave your homes and go away somewhere else. He says, or you can get this mountain to move. And when this mountain moves, I'm going to let you guys stay. And it says a Jewish vizier challenged the Coptic Cope Abram to prove a gospel verse about moving mountains with faith from Matthew 17:10.
And so they got this true story. They got a guy. Come over, and this guy had literally plucked his eye out because he didn't want to lust after women, and he took Jesus seriously. And they got this guy to come over. And he'd prayed for the mountain and the mountain literally moved.
And these people were about to stay there.
Now, what if this guy would have said, you know what? That was just a parable. Jesus wasn't speaking literally. He was just saying, well, what could be, he never would have seen this. But see, it says in Mark chapter 16, and it's in verse 17 through 18, and I'm sure you know that as well, right?
I'm listening.
Okay, Mark 16, 17 through 18, it says this. And these signs shall follow them that believe. In my name, they shall cast out devils. They shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents.
And if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them. They shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
So I don't see in that verse where it says to ask God to do it. It says that these signs shall follow those who believe. And it says, In my name, they shall cast out devils. They shall speak in new tongues. They shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Am I missing something there? No, you're not missing anything at all. One of the reasons that I'm glad we're talking about this is because I think that the congregation, the body of Christ, it needs to realize the power and authority that they have through the name of Jesus Christ and through the Holy Spirit. And to just start exercising this and trying it on anything. because you have power and authority.
He loves you. You're a child of the most high God. And if you're not, I encourage you to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. Look, you're still going to have good times and bad times, but the bad times aren't going to be so bad, and the good times are going to be even better. Yeah, and God is love.
You know, God is love. That we, you know, what does the verse say? It says, many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not cast out demons in your name? Did we not do this? Did we not do that?
He'll say, get away from me. I never knew you. I never had a personal relationship with you. And there are some people on the other side who go, see, these are the people who are casting out demons. But there's a guy named Isaiah Saldivar.
And this is what he. Hold on. That verse right there that you just said. Yeah, yeah. You know what it tells me?
What's that? If unbelievers can do it, then you should definitely be able to do it. There you go. There you go. But there's a guy named Isaiah Saldivar.
This is what he said. He said: if it's hard for me to get into heaven when I'm casting out demons, healing the sick, raising the dead, he said, how much harder is it going to be for the people who aren't obeying the Bible and the people who aren't doing it? Yeah, I think people are trying to you know, to to understand it and then believe it. you know, a a relationship with Jesus it comes comes through Prayer comes through reading His Word, it comes through faith. You know, knowledge is important.
His word does say, my people die from lack of knowledge. It's important, but it seems like the the main focus is knowledge as opposed to faith because it says Grace. And grace is a big focus. Grace, yes, by grace are you saved. Through Faith.
So those are the ingredients that make up salvation: grace and faith. He didn't save by grace or he saved through knowledge. It says those who believe, those who believe enter baptized. They say those who have knowledge and are baptized.
So, you know, it it it's it's about it's about believing. And you even believe what it says, Or you don't. That there's no gray area. There isn't, and there's a Bible verse, and it says, When the Son of Man comes back, will he find faith? Ooh.
Hope he finds a lot of it. I hope so too. And you've seen some good stuff. I mean, you said that you started to pray for people, and you know, you've seen Jesus heal a lot of people, but you had to pray for them. And you said one time, you said, Yeah, Jesus healed them.
Yeah, I prayed for them. But if I never would have prayed for them, would they have been healed? You know, and I've been talking to you on the phone, and I said, you know, Mike, it's pretty simple. If I choose to go out today and pray for somebody, that's afflicted, chances are I'm going to see a miracle. If I choose not to, then chances are I'm not going to.
Yeah, and you know what? If you go out and if you pray for somebody, and if they're not healed, then they've lost nothing and you've lost nothing. But many times, you know, there's been times where I've prayed for people and they may have not been healed physically, but they were healed emotionally and they were healed in another way. And so I don't see anything wrong with going out and praying for people. No, no, I don't see anything wrong with it either.
And so, as you're listening to this today, and as we go out and do the word of the Lord, do the work of the Lord, and as we go out and pray for the sick and heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons, remember this, there's nothing to it but to do it. You know, the hardest part for me when I would go out to Walmart, we've been out to Walmart Saturday mornings the last month or so, and the hardest part is the part in my head is thinking about it before I actually do it. When I actually go out there and do it, that's the easy part. It's analyzing it and thinking about it and saying, oh gosh, what are people gonna do? But when I go out and I take that first step, It's like the Lord does the rest.
And so there's a guy named Reinhart Bunkey. I don't know if you've heard of him, Jason. No, I haven't, but I was thinking about the Nike commercial, Just Do It. And you're absolutely correct. Go ahead with the story, please.
Reinhart Bunkey, who said this, he said, God doesn't sit with sinners. He goes with him. Yeah. And Jason Hamlet, I want to thank you for coming on today. And we hope we'll talk to you soon, okay?
All right, thanks for having me. Thank you. All right, for my YouTube channel. If not for God with mighty's wick Just like, subscribe, and hit that notification bell.
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