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November 20, 2020 7:00 am
Good afternoon. I love them to the narrow path radio broadcast.
My name is Steve Greg and were live for an hour each week afternoon this last week of this week and therefore your last opportunity for us to have a conversation before the weekend.
If you have anything you'd like to call about prep you have questions about the Bible of Christian faith or you have a different viewpoint from the host want to discuss that you can do that here. The number is 844-484-5737 that's 844-484-5737 right to talk first of all to Farrell from Long Beach, California hi Pharaoh, welcome to the narrow path you can recall show joke for your butt, God basically tells Job's friends go to Job and asked him to pray for them.
My question would be, what's your opinion on that. And is there anyplace else in the Bible where was requested to go to someone else to pray for them?
I don't know if I've ever think about that for a little bit because I'm not. I'm not sure. It seems to me that praying for people for other people is certainly a biblical saying because Paul talks about the other prayers, he prays for you know the people he greets, and so forth. In his epistles as far as saying that you go and ask somebody else to pray for you yeah yeah I mean when when Paul when Saul was converted, God sent Ananias to him to pray for him. He didn't send Saul to protest and ice pray for them, but he sent Ananias to pray for Saul and you must have the reverse of what you're asking. There probably are cases that are just looking online right now I'm just not rely guy could sweep through the Old Testament stories and try to remember any any of them, but while there is a place in Genesis chapter I believe it's in chapter 20.
When Abimelech has taken Sarah into his harem and God tells Abimelech to go to to go to Abraham and ask him to pray for him, so that the curse is on Abimelech's family would be removed. So that's one case I can think of right off. There might be others. I'm just working from memory here, right where right prayer was accurate. Sure got well sure that you mean do you mean well because it could not represent God properly right with the UK. Abimelech not walking with David right well you mean some asking somebody pray for you. What is it specifically your thinking he supposed that they be forgiven is everything you simply click God wants recognized properly, purely and just Job with an but maybe you might not have. I'm okay. I'm not really sure exactly not exactly sure what your what you're getting at.
I mean, you asked if there are other cases of people asking someone else to pray for them or are all of God telling them to go. What exactly is your question about that question is God. Joseph Joe Joe accurately pray for the proper well II don't know.
I mean, are you meeting.
Why can they just pay for themselves. Why would they have to go to Job and ask him to pray that the question having because it that you do everything he pray better could be marketing exactly would be a better prayer. Well maybe maybe a bit better prayer or maybe it would simply be that Job is been acknowledged here is having a survey priestly function toward his friends. We know he had a priestly function toward his children when they were alive because he offered sacrifices for them.
In chapter 1. Maybe he's just kinda serving in a priestly function toward his his friends I'm I'm not sure course, God had not established a priesthood at that point but but the point is that you know he was interceding, there's the Bible certainly in favor people interesting for others and that as far as why as far as why they wouldn't just pray for themselves. I guess that's the question I sent wasn't quite sure right yeah I don't.
Maybe Matt maybe didn't know got no meeting of so so Job stress account for more but I also appreciate okay thanks you call God bless you. All right.
Our next caller is David in Eugene, Oregon David, welcome to the narrow path. Thanks for coming.
Thank you. On a hearing Eugene I'm on a couple different station IG. The key has some old messages on the air that would listen to wanted wanted to get your take on the question came up. You know, a Christian you don't block away from his or her salvation and he referenced Roman eight advert. 18 through 39. What can separate us from Christ's love and I wanted to get your take on it. Somebody can you note pathogen.
Where would say that somebody could walk away from their faith and get your take on it. Well assure me that that is basically that's basically one of the proof texts that people use to make the point that he's making the idea that once you've really been saved. Nothing can really cause you to be unsaved, but I don't know that any people use this verse this passage all the time but I don't find it to be conclusive and the reason I don't is because he's talking about things external to yourself, your circumstances, angels, demons, persecution said none of these can separate you from the love of Christ. So he doesn't say that you can't separate yourself from the love of Christ. In fact it says in Jude Jude resources keep yourselves in the love of Christ, things verse 20 anywhere its research and near the end of the book of Jude might be 22 buses, keep yourselves in the love of God so you know you have to ask someone to keep themselves in the love of God. If there's know if it's inevitable that they'll always remain in the love of God, no matter what they do.
Paul doesn't describe any actions or decisions on our part when he says these things cannot separate your he's he's assuming his is a so is readers will want to stay Christian. You know I'm in. Most people who are really converted really want to stay Christians now some people do under weakness apparently break down under under certain circumstances, but, or sometimes I just get bored with God. I don't know how it could be possible that some people apparently do. And they just walk away from God or drift away without realizing their drifting and then they can wake up one morning and there are far from God never get there, but it's what they've allowed to happen. Now those things do happen in the Bible does say Paulson Paul told Timothy in the last days, many will depart from the faith, so the faith means the Christian Christianity church the faith itself to depart from it is something you would only do if you had once been part of it and so there is a great number of verses that would indicate there's a danger of a believer choosing to apostate size and but that is considered to be a rare thing.
It's not really something that real Christians would normally do on me. I think if your real I think most people who walk away from the profession of faith might not have ever really been converted in the first place in the Bible does talk to people like that were John says, for example, they went out from us because they were not unless if they had been others that would not have continued with us. So in first John chapter 2, so you know there there are people who leave the faith because they really, I mean leave the church because they were never really in the face.
They were never really converted but charming.
We probably all know some people like that. But that doesn't mean that everybody who leaves the faith was never really a Christian. I don't think the Bible says that what Paul said in Romans eight is that assuming you want to be a Christian.
Only we would be writing to them if they didn't, because the calls of the saints in Rome that you don't have to worry you not to worry that any circumstances would arise that would force you away from God. Nothing can force you away from God, you can very foolishly leave God but nothing, nothing can force you to value that's really good and helpful and it kind of brings me back to you know, especially in the area where I kinda grew up in the 90 like there was still that whole note notion that you could be a carnal Christian you know a man could be saved but he still lived like an unsaved man, and I think you know definitely teacher like yourself and I've even heard you know Dr. Robert Jeffrey kind of you to change his old on that debt and weaken a carnal Christian or Elysée Christian is not real is that you see the church moving away from that in people knowing that we do have to pick up our cross and follow Christ.
Are you seeing more of that you be more like a teaching I yeah I've been for the past 50 years I've been surrounded largely for it with people who accepted the idea that you have to be a disciple carrier crossing.
I've I was part of the Jesus movement. I was a teacher in it.
I taught these things. 50 years ago still teach them because they're in the Bible. Still, and they probably will be after him dead to change the Bible but I did grow.
I did grow up in a church that didn't they didn't believe you could lose your salvation is a Baptist church in and I was in that church until 16 and then I was in Calvary Chapel cover chapel also doesn't believe you can lose your salvation and I was an insert for a while but I it was while I was in cover chapel that I really began to study the Bible a lot more than I had growing up as a Baptist and and I realize that the idea that you can't lose your salvation is not really something. The Bible teaches anywhere so you know, I might my views moved from that. And you also, since at least since I'd say the 80s most the people that I've been with you know hanging out with mostly would be people who are not it of the opinion that that you that you cannot walk away from God. They would be of the opinion that you can as the Bible actually warns against salt but there still people talk credit not but let me just say this, but the term carnal Christian.
Paul did tell the Corinthians, whom he regarded to be Christians, although they were kind of kind of on the on the edge.
They were pretty carnal. He said he said in chapter 3 frustrated she were carnal and babes now what he saying is they haven't outgrown a certain degree of carnality that they should have and I think that when we say carnal, I think, and in the way Paul uses it there.
He said he means too much regarding fleshly things there there thinking. He says they're thinking like mere men there there thinking like men of the flesh. He says, and so the Christian has to be transformed by the renewing of his mind in a very dynamic conversion, a person usually renounces everything of the flesh that sinful and is get filled with the spirit walks in spirit. Hopefully and the and they don't live in carnality at all, but I think that a person is a true child of God can be stunted in their growth and and although they have changed. They do change your net you you never are converted without change, but a person be changed but not not changed as much as they should, in which case there's a lot of carnality that needs to be rebuked in them and they need to they need to subjugate the flesh more but but if I have a chance at all you know somebody just living a sinful life just like they did before. There are converted than they probably were never confer. I would say they were never really converted but what a person is converted not have one. I've seen who's actually come to Christ has come as dynamically or completely to Christ all at once like I should. I think it has like the bad the bad. Preaching the receipt. I think people receive preaching that doesn't really tell them what they're supposed to mean. Most people who are of antlers have never been told what Jesus said. He said if anyone after he let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
I don't think the majority of people have comported altar calls have actually heard that, or understood that in order.
I think it was more understanding biblical times but but apparently the Corinthians didn't understand quite well, so I'm there's a block sometimes in people's mind that they don't quite hear quite that well or they don't quite feel dive in the deep end. For some reason and and that being so, they exhibit more fleshly behavior than than the Christian should. But that doesn't mean they're not Christian. Joe Paul said that if we walk in the spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, that is, we won't live carnal if were walking in spirit but walk in the spirit assembly have to do you steadily and constantly is not something that you just you don't you just don't throw a toggle switch on your now from that on your in the spirit walking in the spirit walk in the spirit is something were told to do and and as we do. We don't live according the flesh so I think a person like the Corinthians. I think they had been converted. I think Paul assumes that are converted but they're not really walking in the spirit is much as they should and and therefore the not changed their life lesson change as much as it wouldn't. I think they had come out of idolatry and there is a significant change when they became Christians. I probably had given up a great deal of their sinful life. Some of the if they were walking in spirit continually and who does really continually if they do if they were walking in spirit enough then they would be falling to the flesh, much more than they should and and if if a person is significantly bound up by fleshly behavior. One could refer to them as carnal, without necessarily implying that they aren't saved but a person is saved is going to be growing and therefore they Paul was complainant. They had grown enough.
He said that they were still babes and carnal so he thought of his babes in Christ.
So they were in Christ for their babes, their immature and he therefore described as carnal.
So in Paul's and Paul's usage of the term. There at least he would appear to be saying that although they are Christians are like newborns and they should've grown far more than they have in their still exhibiting rated current carnality so I wouldn't rule out that a person who could be described as carnal in the sense of Paul means is Nessus is not best I wouldn't rule out that there Christian, but but I do think that if a person is living without conviction without repentance in ill habits of sin that there there is no evidence that they should ever consider that they have. Thank you. That's really good clarification offer what I write. Thanks for bringing up that the first Corinthian cute Al Ryan.have a great day and night… Thank you David God bless you. Thanks for calling Kathy in Stockton, California.
Welcome to the neuropathic for calling. Good afternoon. I have a question about addictive behavior because I heard differently that people might have a propensity toward obsession composing their addictive behavior. But then I heard that there really is no such thing.
It's really based on on their environment, what goes on in their life and possibly abuse or kind of her bed. That's been happening, but then I also heard that once a person give their heart to the Lord that that gender.
If there was a generational type curse like addictive behavior that is taken away that then I'm thinking well that is never true. First of all I'm not real I'm not real fond of, or comfortable with the term generational curses, no such terminology in the Bible and sometimes the things people describe as generational curses don't strike me as having a biblical basis.
Now I'm on United that be a separate subject Murchison talk about understanding addictions. As a Christian.
There's two kinds of things that are commitment can be called addictions. One of them is physiological you become a meth addict or a court or of a heroin addict now person who's got that kind of addiction, of course, brought it upon themselves because they would never have become addicts if they hadn't use the drugs but but having use them. Their bodies have developed a physiological dependency upon them to the point where, in many cases if they would just stop cold turkey. It it it would possibly kill the same thing with alcohol. Alcohol could be that way you know a person can be converted so much that their body is physically dependent on to the point that if they just cut it off cold turkey.
They go through delirium tremens and and and and get very ill, and so forth. And you can tell them. In these cases, not just a psychological thing it's it's a physiological thing.
It's chemical and it's like they've made themselves sick.
They made themselves sick just like you can make yourself sick by communal eating poorly and getting that malnutrition or by taking something that compromise your health so some addictions are physical in nature. Now, of course, the inlets God heals somebody of one of these supernaturally, which he sometimes does by laughing. I've known heroin addicts who were immediately delivered and healed of that addiction when they were converted but that doesn't happen. Everybody instantly and and and less that does happen. A person back of addictions. You need some kind of therapy from a doctor or from rehab or something where they actually help shepherd. That person out of that physical dependency somehow.
Now there's other things that are called addictions that are not physical in nature lease there's been no never any proof that they are and that we include mentioned alcohol can be physically addictive. Lots of people are not physically addicted to alcohol but say there are addicts there there alcoholics they would say, in many cases, though, if it's not physical, then it must be you know spiritual or Oreo psychological or spiritual and the same thing with many other things that sometimes are called addiction, like porn pornography addiction or gambling addiction or voyeurism. You know that kinda stuff people call sex addicts. They call it.
I don't know that I don't know that I want to put those in the same class with addictions that are actually physiological because they have nerve a different nature. They are not something that the body has become chemically addicted to this and I'm not saying there's no chemicals involved because brain chemistry that can be stimulated by what you see what you allow yourself to set your heart on. Frankly, you know, obviously adrenaline can can be released in the body of because of things that are part of your motion. So there are things ways in which the mind sometimes affects the chemistry of the body, but at the same time I don't think that a person has any chemical addiction to that is body chemistry addiction to gambling.
For example, you know, there may be exhilaration. There may be adrenaline but that's not the same thing is addiction. My opinion, it means there allowing themselves to get excited about something that is actually damaging them and I think that that is a spiritual problem.
I think that's a problem that frankly is would be solved by walking in the spirit because the Bible says if you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, and certainly it it says the fruit of the spirit in Galatians chapter 5 verse 2203.
Among other things, the fruit of the spirit is self-control. So person who just gambles all the time doesn't quit when he knows he should is not controlling himself is not walk in the spirit because the freezers self-control. Now some people say well that's not been very fairly people because your your your your say it's their fault. Well, you know, frankly, if I have something dominate my life. I I'd rather have someone tell me the truth about them so you there if you walk in the spirit. This won't happen. There is spiritual there's a spiritual remedy for this than to have them say are you just got some brain mess up here that's never to change. You just need to go to 12 step programs.
The rest your life.
I want to be in bondage to 12 step programs are to be set free.
You know, and if the sun set you free your free indeed.
I believe that is much more compassionate to tell somebody listen if you don't have a chemical Bayou physiological addiction to whatever is then it's something that can be remedied. You don't have to go through rehab necessarily.
You don't have to take medicines for, and you don't have to live with it the rest your life. There's freedom in Christ. So there's different things that are called addictions and we and we I think the word is used very loosely for almost any behavior that somebody is simply not finding it. Not finding themselves capable of controlling but that's not the same thing is physiological addiction… We all have temptations that we don't do as well as we should. Controlling and some people have temptations stronger in one area than another, but being in bondage to sin, which is what the human condition is until were set free by Christ and being being a slave of sin is not the same thing as what you people call addictions and popular speech are problem is where humans were fallen. We have sin in us in our nature. So Paul signaled the thing I wanted directly. I don't do it in the thing I don't want to do I do it I mean Nahid. He was not an addict he would never have accepted the title addiction for his problem. His problem was he he would have sin in his members. He said that was not a physiological thing that's an spiritual condition but he did say in the next chapter across those comments were made in Romans seven. In the next chapter and verse for he said that in verse two he says the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from the law of sin and death. In verse four, chapter 8 of Romans says that the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit. So Paul saw this is a spiritual problem that all people have some people have it in some areas of life more than others. Listen, I need to take a break. I hope that maybe I've used you.
You're listening to the narrow path, we do have another half-hour coming up soon go away.
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Also, if you have a difference of opinion for most of the glad to talk to about that as well right now are lines or full so you will be able to get through immediately, but if you take this number down. No doubt there will be a chance before the programs over when lines open up and you can get through the number to call is 844-484-5737 that's 844-484-5737 our next caller is Stanley coming from Honolulu, Hawaii hello Stanley, welcome to take on that religion anything on my phone because I have not clear by okay sure well the pros and cons of the Seventh-day Adventist religion while the pros are. They do believe in Jesus and they do believe that Christ is the Lord.
At least they say they do. Now there are you to say that Christ is the Lord means that he's the one you look to for your instructions.
He's the one who gives the orders and you will pay them now there is a tendency with some Seventh-day Adventist side.
I won't I won't pin this on all of them but some of them actually would in their in their respect for their founder Ellen G.
White. It almost seems sometimes like she's the Lord now I know that some therapist could be offended by this, so I'm not saying I'm not broadbrush of them all but LNG white is the founder and they tend to look at her serve the prophet figure and and and and if she says something is true.
There are some severe and that's who could say that it's true because she said it so she almost has as much power may be more as the Scriptures, maybe even more than Jesus, that she wouldn't ever LNG right was a Christian woman. She would never have argued that she should have more authority than Jesus, but you know you can sometimes give somebody more authority than Jesus in your life without consciously knowing you're doing it because your decisions and your opinions are really being formed by somebody who isn't Jesus and to the point where when you actually read what Jesus did say you can only see it through the lens that this other person's teaching have fitted onto your hot eyes in your mind, so I think that I've met are plenty of some of the evidence to whom this would apply that you can, they love to talk of the Bible, but a but only parts of the Bible because the parts of the Bible you don't agree with them. They always revert back to LNG white okay or another alternative and that both may be true is that the Santana sometimes let the law of Moses be there God rather than Jesus because they they argue that they have to keep the 10 Commandments, which includes the Saturday Sabbath. That's what the that's why they named themselves seventh day Adventist because the keep the seventh day which is Saturday Sabbath. Now, in my understanding the New Testament does not teach that the Christians keep the 10 claims they follow Jesus sleep. We don't have a law, we have a Lord and we follow him. Now of course we could say well, but there is such thing as the law of Christ. And that's true.
Jesus said a new commandment I give unto you, that you love one another as I have loved you, he said, so that you also love one another.
All men will know you are my disciples. By this, if you love one another. He said that of course in John 13 3435 so the real law of Christ is to love, but to the Seventh-day Adventist. The law that Christians are to obey is taken from the law of Moses know they don't think we are to keep the whole law of Moses.
There are people who think that there are some people who really are out of touch with the New Testament teaching who actually think we should keep the whole law of Moses, but since Dennis don't believe that.
But they do believe we have to keep the 10 Commandments they might say what could be wrong with that well for most of it. Nothing.
Nothing's really wrong with the 10 Commandments and you shall not kill you start commit adultery shall not steal. You shall not bear false.
She shall not covet. You shall honor your father and your mother. You have no other gods besides God. These are things that Jesus himself taught, which means that if you're following Jesus and his instructions, you will be well within the parameters of nine of the 10 Commandments but Jesus never taught about keeping Sabbath is an obligation to anyone except the Jews.
And that's because the Sabbath according to the Old Testament was a sign that God gave to the Jews to Israel of a sign of their covenant that he had with them that covenant we don't have. That's the old covenant. That's why the first part about is called the Old Testament there were testaments covenant the Old Testament is the old covenant.
The New Testament is the new covenant in Jesus made a new covenant with his disciples in the upper room and the Bible says where there's a new covenant, the old covenant is obsolete. That's as plain as can be coming at you unless somebody has somebody else's lenses on when they read in the Bible so they can't see with the Bible actually says it's obvious when the Bible says where there's a new covenant, the old covenant is obsolete. Okay, you don't let someplace pass that without Siewert says because he says and means process. The there is a new covenant.
It has rendered the old covenant obsolete. So the question we have to ask is what is the new covenant with Jesus made very clear. He is the mediator of the new covenant and an new test makes it clear throughout.
He's the mediator of a better covenant. The same the same chapter actually says, actually same chapter it says were that the old covenant obsolete.
Says that Jesus is the mediator of a new and better covenant so that's that's in Hebrews 8 so I think the sentiments are quite mistaken in thinking that for so LNG whites teachings are all authoritative because I don't think they are not say she teaches any horrible heresies but there are some doctors who teaches that her mistake or wrong and some of them are just trying to cover their backside because she made predictions about Jesus coming back. That didn't materialize. And so now the target well kinda came into the investigative judgment which is something that they made up out of whole cloth because frankly they were embarrassed by the fact that the prosecution he didn't come true and so he will know she was wrong.
It did come true. It's just that we you we were thinking Jesus connects come back here but actually he didn't come over back here yet.
He will later. But, but he came into the holy of holies or whatever for the investigative judgment while that is of course not. That's not the behavior of an honest movement okay headset hate to say it because I don't like to call people liars but I just have to say you can tell when people are not interested in truth as much as they're interested in covering details and so that would be my criticism of Haywood recon's of the movement. I'd say it isn't quite honest enough for my liking and it certainly is unscriptural enough for my liking. I hope that's helpful to Garrett in Orange County, California. Heidegger area. So my question is about situation going on the turtle Bay, but it they are having issues with a lady who cheated on her and they think that she should the board. She doesn't want to go with her… Just wondering if you could bring some scriptures polite about and I'll take my hand throughout their working okay but this is the man still committing adultery. The key there were a lot of issues where it would continuing after they found out I am not sure about now I know what happened about a year or two ago. Okay, I'll be glad to address it. Thank you, thank you. You know I can't really understand why any church would want a woman to divorce her husband.
Unless of course it's a very dangerous situation that she can't get out of any other way.
I do agree that divorce that adultery is one of the very few things the Bible indicates would justify divorce and the people who get divorced for lesser reasons than that simply cannot remarry and if they do remarry they commit adultery by doing so, so maybe that's what the Bible says Jesus said that there are there are a few other things course of a person dies their marriage is over, but also if an unbeliever departs from her marriage to a believer then the believer is free pulsating prescriptive seven as she sounds like she's a believer that emotions are not.
If her husband is a serial adult for an unrepentant that he's not a believer survives is no adulterer will enter the kingdom of God.
So he may call himself a believer. All he wants. If he's living in adultery doesn't repent and really repent then he's not a Christian by any biblical definition of that word in column so that all he wants to his church. Recall that if they would sound like they're not in this case, but we need let me decide what God thinks about it and God says that you know if you're in adulterer in your unrepentant certainly do not inherit the kingdom of God and that makes you not a Christian now. Nonetheless, while adultery is grounds for divorce. It certainly is not a mandate for divorce.
I myself was once married to a woman who is committing adultery repeatedly against me and I knew it and she she didn't even hide it. She confessed it, but she didn't repent and I knew I had grounds for divorce. I would do it because I like like this woman, I wanted to keep the marriage it we actually had a baby. We are raising one-year-old at the time I was determined that my child would be raised intact.
Home. You can't make the decision for the other person and does so in that case, my wife left and divorce me shipment grounds, but she wanted to be with someone else so she did and that means so I was I was free that she she would be free if her husband divorced her. In fact, she is free to divorce him, but she is not under obligation to when my wife was committing adultery.
I actually was determined that were to make this work out your arm to forgive her. I'm getting underweight for her repent.
I actually have a very much higher view of marriage that most Christians do, although some some Christians don't allow divorce for any reason.
I think you're mistaken, but in my opinion, even if you have grounds for divorce. That's not a mandate to divorce. I think that forgiveness, reconciliation, if it can be worked out is much higher our glory to God in the situation. If the family has if the couple has children to I don't know about this in your indication mentioned but divorce is very damaging on children and often it will be the thing that causes them to leave the church if the parents in the church. Divorce side. I don't really think it's a wise idea to to encourage someone to divorce unless there's a very strong reasons. They must know Jesus or God. I should say in the Old Testament was married to Israel, and Israel committed adultery a lot, but course God consider that when they worship idols that was committing spiritual adultery and he had grounds for divorce, but he forgave her and he forgave her he forgave her to forgive her hundreds of years long.
Forgive her finally did divorce her because she would not she would not change and so God did get a divorce based on the same grounds of adultery as he called when Israel's worshiping idols so certainly to be patient and to seek reconciliation is the most Christlike and most godlike thing a person can do. If they have an unfaithful spouse certainly is what I what I did what I would do and I'll never have an unfaithful spouse. Again, thankfully, but the but I would do it again. May 9.
I believe in marriage. I believe in files.
I believe in being faithful.
I believe in glorifying God by your by keeping your work so I think for her want to stay in the marriage is a good thing unless there's something about her situation.
I don't know about Army if the situation is, you know, he regularly beats her, and she's in danger for her life. Or maybe there's children at home and he beats them in their in danger of their life. I would say in that case, at least to get out of the home ice. I still don't think divorce would be necessary at that point person could be out of the home and still be waiting for the spouse to repent.
So the marriage can be restored, but there might be reasons there might be other reasons, no extenuating circumstances where she having grounds for divorce. She does probably should go ahead and use it but I they're not very many situations that I would ever recommend some of the divorce it when they can and so I would. I don't know enough you your work. You can explain the whole situation. I I would pick your brain a little more to find out why it is that the church leaders want her to divorce her husband. Of course I would think church leaders should recognize her right to do so. But that's a very different thing than required to do so against her wishes. So I'm without without that extra knowledge I couldn't say anything more insightful about that.I do appreciate your call. The figure skating adjacent in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Welcome to the narrow path. Thanks for calling I called earlier and we are talking about the situation in the Gospels where Jesus talks about the Bible translated Ellen. I think he said it was something like the Valley and something like that sometimes outwardly, that word is used for how the two, three other words that are sensitive to loss but depending on what passage what I was wondering is it. Is there a weekly Bible translation that actually translate what Jesus was saying like something that you do get Hannah rather than hell so that we can properly understand what Jesus the things I wish there was all the translations I looked at just use the word hell and I'm not sure why they do because frankly, there are three different Greek words in the New Testament that are all translated as hell but they don't. They're not all the same wording. They don't all refer the same thing.
One of them is the word hate Hades which speaks of the grave or the place of the dead. One of them is Tartarus, which is mentioned only once in the Bible.
In second Peter chapter 2 were talks about the angels who fell have been cast down to Tartarus in the boat says hello and most Bibles and then there's a course toward Gehenna Gehenna is always translated Helen all the Bibles I've seen, but it isn't the same thing is Tartarus is not the same thing is Hades. So I'm not sure what argument can be made for using the same English word for all of these things that are not the same thing and now of course is some question even among Greek scholars as to how Gehenna should be translated so that be another argument for trance or just leaving it as Gehenna they development most of them do now that with the word Hades in the King James version. Hades was translated hell of a lot of the time but now every new translation, including the new King James just leaves it Hades that they just give the Greek word without without translating it because they realize it. Hades is a bit of an ambiguous word. It doesn't always refer to what we think it was hell in the same thing with Gehenna others. It's ambiguous and and now the reason that translators have traditionally translated Gehenna as hell is because in Jesus day some of the rabbis had come to use the word Gehenna to speak of the afterlife place of punishment for sinners, but they didn't have any biblical warrant for speaking of your head that way because word Gehenna every every Greek translator will know it literally means the Valley of him him G Hannah means Valley of Hannah and Greek and in the Valley film is a real Valley outside Jerusalem, so you know you could, they could translate Valley of him him but the thing is they believe that when Jesus use this word and and only Jesus used James uses it once was. Not really talk about hell at all.
James uses the term about how the tongue is a flame and it's on fire from Gehenna is obviously very figurative but Jesus actually talk but Gehenna is a place that people be thrown into when they're dead if they're evil and and so I think most translators assume that Jesus is top of the afterlife and that so were were with unbelievers be thrown after they died.
Hell, so they just they just translate Gehenna's hell but that then obscures the fact that the word Gehenna doesn't really mean hell that's that's translation and in the Old Testament, the Valley of him him was a place where dead bodies were sometimes thrown especially the war did in Jeremiah and Isaiah both talks about the Valley pin him as a place where corpses are thrown after a battle and in Jeremiah said that the Valley of him. Almsgiving called the Valley of slaughter because of the abundance of the dead. That'll be in there so and and Jeremiah's nontarget hell he's talking about the Valley of him.
Jesus, I think, could relevant talk of the Valley of him him also because there was a war and it's a slaughter of the Jews coming up within the generation of his own time. Just as there was in Jeremiah's time and so I you know I don't know of any translation that actually translates the word Gehenna at all when when you call it hell you're interpreting the word we are not translating it because the Greek word actually has a Greek meaning in the Greek meaning is not hell the Greek meaning is Valley of him. So I wish that I like yourself I wish there was a bottle just when it comes to these various words instead of translated in this hell because they aren't all the same thing.
They should just tell us this, Jesus here is a ratio over here use the word Gehenna imperious were Tartarus here and you just because they leave it to us than to explore what those words mean as they're used in Scripture because we would then know where they're being used, but translators sometimes try to dumb things down for people in and they make a mistake in my opinion, of imposing their opinions in the translation where you know it's not always.
It's not always indisputable when I read the word hell in the Bible. I have people burning in fire forever. Why most people have that in the hell, and thinking that when they read that in the Bible for couple of reasons one and and especially as the book of Revelation. In Revelation 20 and verse 15 it says all whose names were not found written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire. Now the phrase lake of fire is not any of the words in Greek that for hell but we can see that it is talking hell. At least that's me. Maybe that's up for debate to but I don't. I don't know many people debated.
I personally believe the lake of fire is fairly indisputably reference to hell and were also told in that same chapter and verse 10 that the devil and the beast and false prophet are also thrown into the lake of fire and it says, and there tormented day and night forever and ever. There so we read of the devil and the beast and false prophet being tormented day and night forever and ever in the lake of fire than we later read everyone whose name is not found written in the book of life is thrown into the lake of fire, but were not told that there tormented forever and ever and we don't know if they are not because it's the Bible silent on the question but but because the devil and his age of the devil and his and the beast and false prophet are said to be tormented forever and ever. There, the assumption is that humans are gonna be tormented forever and ever there to and that's not necessarily given Jesus said in Matthew Matthew 2541. He said in the sheep and the goats comparable Matthew 2541. He said that the goats are to go off into into eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels will that sounds like a psycho hell also talked with the lake of fire. Since the devil's messengers. The Angels. His angels are to go there and so do this, the goats they go there to. But again they go into eternal fire were not told if they burn forever there themselves or if they get burned up at the devil might not get burned up, but he's not one of us know we don't know from any specific passage of Scripture that those were thrown in the lake fire who were mere humans necessarily our tormented forever and ever vital specifically say that but it's perhaps the simplest way of systematizing everything has led people to believe that as the devil is tormented forever and ever so also are people God had done a very good job translating word in nature that I wouldn't say so I would say the people haven't done a very good translating it. Matthew mean the God wasn't very good at make it clear what he was talking about. I could say well it is true that God didn't make some things clear but I wouldn't call that a defect I think that everything he wanted to make clear and everything that needed to be back there.
He made it perfectly clear, but there's a lot of things that we are curious about that God has no interest in us having any clarity on because not relevant to us, mean and think of all the things all the mysteries of the universe he could told us in a physics and of all kinds of other astronomy and all kinds of things that we don't know for biology that wasn't his. It wasn't his purpose to bless others is not against us finding them out, but those are the things that he thought we had to know in order to receive and give special revelation about that stuff to give special revelation about things that were that we have that are necessary for us to know.
I don't think any of us need to know what hell is like we did watch will determine whether or not the Lord God. While we know that we know is a moral God mean that's the Bible you don't you don't but I do I know is a moral God. Okay so and therefore whatever we say about hell, it has to fit in with the fact that we know and that is that God is a moral God is working at this two different ways to me. When I look at the Bible I find out who is God, because that's what the bottles for the Bible is there to acquaint me with God. I there learned that he's a faithful just and morally upright, righteous God, and there is no unrighteousness in him.
That's actually stated repeatedly and I see story after story after story where I see this demonstrated and I also fight my life so the starting point in understanding the Bible is to understand God because it's really a book about God. Now, when when we don't have clarity about something, but say about predestination, which seems very immoral to some people, or about hell if its eternal torment well instead of starting with those things and trying to decide from them. Whether God is good. We start with the fact that God isn't that good. We know he's good.
Who who who isn't good would come down here and die in your place for nothing when you're his enemy, knowing that a good person would do that no bad person would do that. Okay so where God is good is basically unquestionable to me. Therefore, the things that are unclear, I either have to leave them unclear and be happy with them is unclear, or I have to say well however I understand these. They have to be understood in light of God's goodness because God's goodness is the nonnegotiable.
Now obviously I don't require you to think that way because if you don't, you're not what the Bible calls a Christian maybe don't claim to be one, but a Christian and that's what I claim to be is somebody who's already come over to God's side. It hurts. I don't see myself as God's judge. God is not tentatively been waiting for my approval. God is the one who is the ultimate of righteousness and justice, and I'm the one who have to meet his approve, not the other way around the course of a person is not a Christian, they haven't made that decision at NAB made elsewhere yet, but I appreciate your calling another time. Obviously, even listening to the neuropathic radio broadcast. My name is Steve Greg and we are live Monday through Friday at the same time and are we our listener supported. We pay for the time on radio stations.
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