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The Narrow Path 7/30

The Narrow Path / Steve Gregg
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July 30, 2020 8:00 am

The Narrow Path 7/30

The Narrow Path / Steve Gregg

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July 30, 2020 8:00 am

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Welcome to the narrow path radio broadcast, as usual, we are live as we are each weekday afternoon with an open phone line so you can call and we can talk about the Bible of the Christian faith. Whatever questions you have.

You like to raise for discussion or if you're not a Christian or you are and have a difference of opinion from the host. You're welcome to call to register another opinion and to discuss that whatever the matters of disagreement with the numbers 844-484-5737 looks like the lines are full right now. So if you call back a little bit. You may find a line has opened the number 844-484-5737 one announcement of in making this week is that the day after tomorrow, Saturday night. I am most speaking into macula.

Actually, not so much of the lecture just a question-and-answer time just like we have here and there, only it's script with a live group, a small group. I'm assuming we circumcise very small and that we don't do it, but once every couple months but it's into macula Saturday night. We gathered 630 for just a time to get to know each other, fellowship, and then at seven.

We have a Q&A you're welcome to join us for that.

If you're interested, go to our website. The narrow path.com and go to the tablets has announcements and you'll find under Saturday night into macula.

The location and time and will look forward to seeing you there. Hopefully you can come some of the all right.

Let's talk to Luke from Portland, Oregon.

Luke welcome to the neuropathic for college McCall or help with a word study looking at the Greek state as opposed to the idea that faith is simply belief and trust.

Looks to me that this is more often used as an evidential conviction that comes from God generated by ourselves were belief and trust is something more of the work of the will, but I'm not sure the source of them looking at her and not by one. I think they may be because belief or to believe his word to stool which is from the word Pistons Pistons means faith and to stool means believe so. One is the noun and one is the verb so would be there's not really a difference in the sense you talk about that one like like faith would be a gift from God believing would be our responsibility. I honestly don't see any evidence in the Bible that that faith pestis is to be regarded as a gift. Strictly speaking, I know those verses that are sometimes used. For example, Paul told the Philippians that is been granted to them not only to believe but also to suffer for his namesake often granted to them to believe. Then something within it's against the grant is not the same thing as what they're thinking of having confidence, belief that God gives you faith and he gives it to the person that he is elected to have it that a person cannot believe on their own. They need to be one of the elect and if they want to be like God gives them the faith to believe.

So it's most straightforward gift I would even say in their view, it's an imposition because that the unregenerate person according to Calvinism, hates God and doesn't want to believe in God. So in other words leave. The believer was once unregenerate before they became a believer and as an unbeliever according to this view as an unbeliever I would've been a hater of God and unwilling to believe but then God because he elected me put this faith in me against my wishes because it happened against my wishes because I wished otherwise before he did it and so that would be to my mind, and imposition of a view of the faith upon somebody who didn't have it or want it previously. Now that's just my way of looking at it looks more like an imposition than anything. However, to say that God is granted to us to believe would not nestling and he impose faith as is something that he stuck into us when we were looking forward but rather that he's given us the privilege of believing to grant something is to give somebody a privilege now. I have had the privilege of believing many people have not, because many people never heard the gospel their people in the world is never the gospel. I I was raised in a Christian home and went to church and even if I hadn't, I have a Bible and nearby there's been one in every hotel room a minute I have every opportunity to believe, which other people do not have who don't have access to the gospel of the Bible. So I have been granted the privilege of believing because I have been granted the privilege of being exposed. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Faith doesn't come by just a gift of God. Faith comes by hearing Paul said in hearing by the word of God so I have heard the word of God that's been a great benefit to me. I was granted that privilege, and therefore I've been granted to believe, but that's not the same thing as what Calvinistas if gift is the faith is a gift now course, they usually use. Ephesians 28 and nine were pulse is by grace you been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast what he says it is the gift of God is not referring to faith.

The word faith in the Greek is a feminine word and therefore ending any pronoun that would relate to be a feminine pronoun, but says it is the gift of God is not referring to a feminine noun because it is a neuter in the great there is in fact a feminine form of it that could've been used if he wanted to refer back to a feminine noun but he did not. Also, grace is a feminine noun so grace and faith are both mentioned previously, when he says it is the gift of God. He uses a neuter, what is the neuter, what is eternal at the ticket forgot what salvation he says migration have been saved by grace you been saved through faith, that salvation is the gift of God not of works, so there's no statement having that faith was a gift.

Now I don't want to take away anything from the fact that God has been very gracious to allow us to become believers because not everybody has had the opportunity to hear the gospel and we have recently can't claim any credit to ourselves that we were born in a situation where we could hear it or where we happen to be in the right place to hear it week we have to give God all the thanks for that.

No question about it, but he is not saying what Calvinists say that that faith is strictly a gift that God gives just by itself. Faith is a response to an opportunity. The opportunity is what happens when we hear the gospel and we have the opportunity to respond in faith or not. And faith is our response. God doesn't believe for us. We believe its targets are doing on him right 11 in the beginning is evidence of things not seen. Probably if it meant a belief in the trust that we are response. How would I respond. Evidence of anything that is an idea I've been working through and less on the strong and impulsive when he said he is persuaded using the form and another thing is how can our belief be persuasive. That's what I can only be eight parties know we we we persuade ourselves of many things. In fact, we refuse to be something that we could otherwise be persuaded of them in if somebody wants to tell me something very awful lot somebody I respect I'm I'm not can receive that test without awful lot of confidence witnesses, whatever you nominate. I will refuse to be persuaded of certain things unless I'm compelled by evidence to do so. I have a lot to do with whether persuaded things now what is persuading me is an open question but to say that I am persuaded is not to say whether what I did my own research and persuaded myself whether somebody argued me into something and therefore is persuaded or whether God forced this persuasion. Upon becoming certainly depending on what theological background we have, we could see any of those ways but were not at all compelled to see to something where God is the one who made us be persuaded of something that we otherwise would not have been as far as Hebrews 1 goes where he was 11, one I seek a bit different when he says faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not but not seen. I think what he says it's the evidence of things not seen.

He is saying that it is with reference to the unseen world. Faith serves the way the vision serves to the scene world.

What is the evidence of the scene dimension. The tangible physical world. The best evidence we have is our site is why eyewitness evidence is considered to be superior to most other kinds to see it is generally to believe it and and so in other words, the evidence I have the best evidence I have, that my wife is in the room with me is because I can see her at this moment I can't hear her. She something it sounds I can't smell her. From here I can't can't. There's nothing, nothing tells me she's here, except I see her but I know it and that my site, my eyesight is the evidence of her being here because she blocks the scene world, but there are things that belong to the unseen God, angels, demons you know and and many other things like our status with God in heaven. We don't see that we have evidence of it because we believe that we been told by God and our belief serves us as evidence of the unseen and the same way that site would service as evidence of the scene and writer of Hebrews goes on and amplifies that by Todd Rachel Moses when he fled from Egypt. He endured as one who sees the invisible when he didn't see the invisible learning Hebrews is insane. He did, he saying that his faith by faith he forsook Egypt his faith served him as if he could see God he couldn't. Although he did on occasions, actually, but is not referring to that is referring to his endurance through the trials and wilderness as if he could see the invisible one and you know you know in Hebrews 111 three it says by faith we understand that the heavens were framed by the word of God and the things that are seen were made from things are not seen. Now, what you saying there is again weed we were there we can see it but we been told and therefore by faith we know it we by faith we understand he said so I understand things in the tangible, visible world that can be observed by my eyesight. I understand things in the invisible realm by my faith in what God is told me about it, so faith is the evidence of the unseen. It's is not say that faith that my faith is evidence of my salvation, or thing like that. It could mean that it could be I guess. So it seems that somehow understand that particular verse. Thank you very much is available okay look Kentucky thanks your call okay. We got a call from Rabbi Carmichael Wolf from Redondo Beach, Rabbi, welcome to the neuropathic for calling Steve. I have a question regarding your view on Revelation 6 square it talks about the white horse the red horse the black horse and green horse and you know that you take a different view on it so I was just wondering if you're aware of the flooding that's going on in China and how all of your crop washdown and how that could have an effect on us here in and America and so you think that is the black horse and salmon well yes something here that is the black horse and also the fact that COBIT 19 is needed over their scores would be told, and now we're effect here and we had many of our crops destroyed. So I was just wondering if you thought that there be a connection to that in as well as the violence that's happening throughout our country, which is something that has never been seen. Be sure. So could you could you help me out let me see how your connecting those things to it because I when I read these four horsemen are not reading about flooding per se, nor virus is necessarily over there could be there's pestilence but that's only one of four things.

It's killing people, which, how are you making the connection. I just just all understand better when I look it all for the horses. I see what is happening in Israel explorers the annexation I see the violence that happening right here in American throughout the world. I see the famine that has been caused in China with the flooding which is something that's not being talked about and also see all of the people who have starved to death. Send the shutdown of the world has happen, then we have this virus that we are being told it's not dangerous and then were told they it is dangerous but yet still we have quite a few people who have errors from it and no one seems to be able to okay okay so these four horsemen do speak of various disasters including violence, including pestilence, which I guess a virus could maybe qualify for that and famine. So those things do exist in the world and and those things seem to be referred to there now my my problem here is of course that I don't have any particular evidence at this point that any flooding or or famine or violence in the world is unique at this present time, or that it would be that which is spoken of in the book of Revelation, because all of those things. Obviously if you were living at any other time in history, or almost any other time in history we would see those things in the world and so I I don't I don't follow a method that I refer to as newspaper exegesis of Revelation. Many, many people do like I did. I just thought I don't say okay I think revelations describe this coming and look, here it is in the newspapers are here. And here's this in the description. I can fit that into Revelation. Also I my preference is to interpret Revelation in terms of comparing Scripture with Scripture and and even with itself. For example, in Revelation chapter 1 before all these things begin to happen in the opening three verses it says that these things are going to shortly take place and they are near.

Now those things are spoken in the first century by John so my assumption is he described things that were as he said near about to take place at that time.

Likewise, I see tremendous parallels between the things that you mentioned in Revelation and things that Jesus said in Matthew 24 what we call the all of the discourse and Jesus said about that. He said all these things will happen in this generation is that this generation will not pass until all these things are fulfilled. So my take would be that although these kinds of things have happened. No doubt, hundreds of times in history, including our time that if are looking for the particular fulfillment of these things I would look for the fulfillment in that generation, the Jesus of this generation will not pass before these things are fulfilled.

Or as John said these things will shortly take place. He said to a bunch of Christians living in the first century so that's where I would look for the film rather than in our times. Okay so I am to understand and that you do not you. Revelation 6 to 19 as the tribulation and the great tribulation. Well, they're not that I don't I don't see them as a future tribulation. I think it was a great tribulation for people of the time, but I don't see it as a future to relation that I don't actually read anywhere in the New Testament, all likely fueled either of a period of tribulation that is necessarily future. For example, I was taught and I used to teach that there's going to be a seven year tribulation, just prior to the second coming of Christ, which of course the future.

But when I actually went when the looking went hunting for the passages and say it every passage I thought was about that ended up in this context be not about that at all. So I'm I'm not really sure where I would base a view on a future tribulation is wondering where you were coming from because I wrote I received some information that aired three nuclear reactors in China that are in danger of being lost in the dike that they're trying to build can not withstand the flood so I was just wondering if that would change your mind in any way what what would there be about that. That should change my mind. Well, if it if the if the nuclear reactors go into the sea and kill off the sea life and if everything is disrupted, all this year's bars are medication and millions of people die from not being able to get access to the high blood pressure medicine sure and let me ask you this effect on your opinion. While not wooden but do where you recently Bible prophecy back in 1975 events. No, not exactly know okay because I was and it was the prosecutors were pointing out all the same kinds of things not the same events but same kinds of events should Noble and things like that were were I think about what happened then. But there were things there are lots of things happening in the news and the famous start prophecy. Experts are called writing popular books.

Best-selling books about how these things that are in the newspapers correspondence Revelation saying that I was 50 years ago this year and most the things that were identified in those books are not happening anymore, at least not the same. Once there is new things and in the past 50 years that I've been in the ministry teaching. Revelation I have seen come and go. You cycle after cycle of the rise and fall of disasters that were said to be corresponding to Revelation. And then they fizzled out and nuance came up so no there's nothing really about newspapers that will change my view, the Bible only it could change my view, the Bible would be the Bible itself, and so I need someone to show me in Scripture that my interpretation is wrong rather than that. It's possible, which, if I were no surprise to me, but it's possible to line up many disasters in our modern time as to say threatening to destroy the world. That was true 1970. Also in my study of church history is indicated there's been that's been the case. Many many many generations in church history people seen the disasters of their times as fulfilled fulfilling Revelation. I appreciate your call though and I thank you for joining us. Louis from San Bernardino, California. Welcome. Thank you. May add. You can give the brief of disclosure on his magic movement and just history in a biblical that it is like well okay I can say something about that. First, for those who don't know the word charismatic, which we used in connection with Christian groups is based on the Greek word charismatic which is plural for gifts gifts of the spirit. The singular is charisma and the pluralist care is Martha and those who believe in or practice. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are called charismatics. Now these are in contrast to groups that would be labeled as cessation next cessation is comes from the word to cease the cessation of the thing is it's ceasing in the cessation is believes that the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased sometime around the time at the end of the apostolic age or maybe around when the New Testament was finished or whatever, they have different ideas of what happened but they believe happened in the past. There's no more of these gifts the spirit and I say these gifts I'm talking about and so are they, what we might call miraculous gifts what they might call sign gifts everyone recognizes the continuing presence of the gift of the evangelist or teacher or the pastor and some other certainly the gift of giving every pastor with the would want to encourage and the gift of helps in the gift of leaving and exultation sulfur. These are all showing mercy. These are listed in gifts of the Holy Spirit does not the kind of things that people think of ceased. In fact, those are obviously things that are duties of Christians, but there are gifts in the listing that Paul gives like prophecy and tongues speaking foreign tongues and an interpretation of tongues. The working of miracles, healings and such, which are obviously more sensational, more supernatural. And sometimes they call these the sign gifts. The cessation says they have ceased the charismatics is no they haven't. They're still there, still available to the church now. There have been charismatics off and on throughout church history the Montanists back in the early church were charismatics to Tulia. One of the church fathers became a Montanists before he died. He was leaving church father and he became a Montanists which was a strongly charismatic movement that is emphasizing the gifts of the spirit now in modern times the charismatic movement would partly trace its roots back to the Pentecostal revival around the 1900 so about 120 years ago in Los Angeles on Azusa Street.

There was a church that had a revival characterized by speaking in tongues primarily and some of the other gifts and that became the, the roots of the Pentecostal denominations in modern times the Assemblies of God the foursquare church and many other possible denominations, but much more recently among churches that were not Pentecostal for the phenomena of speaking in tongues and so these are gifts broke out in the late 60s, 1960s and it happened in an Episcopal Church of legalist in Seattle and it happened in some other churches, Lutheran churches Baptist Church of self-worth and when these Pentecostal type phenomena began to occur in non-Pentecostal denominations. These people did not change their names to Pentecostal it made the name was given to their charismatic their charismatic Baptist Methodist charismatic Presbyterians get charismatic Catholics even and so the charismatic movement differs from the Pentecostal movement largely in the Pentecostal movement has its own denominations for the charismatic movement has infiltrated denominations that are not Pentecostal and who believe in the gifts of the spirit. Now I myself would be a charismatic by these terms, I believe in the gifts of the spirit myself. However I will say much that is happened in the charismatic movement in the last 30 years has been absolutely embarrassing and scandalous charismatics sometimes are accused of not being very biblical and sometimes the accusation is valid is not always valid and effective where I first discovered the gifts. The spirit was a church that taught the Bible every day of the week. Verse by verse of some some snacks are quite biblical on myself and I believe I'm quite biblical oriented but some charismatics they like the phenomena more than they like the Bible and they and therefore they go off in A strange thing to experiment with things that are even our cult, or just plain silliness and they plan unfortunately you can see these people on YouTube in order to go to the plate, churches, and it'll chase anyone away from not only the charismatic movement from Christianity itself.

It's so absurd and so when we talk of the charismatic movement. We have to realize there is a valid charismatic woman but there's also craziness in many parts of the movement that in embarrassment. Everybody you're listening to the narrow path, we are listener supported. We do take a break and will be back in about 30 seconds, you can go to our website. The narrow path.com in order to find a how you can help support us or just take what's there@thenarrowpath.com Albrecht that small is the gate and narrow is the path that leads to welcome you to the near and had nothing to sell you everything in today's radio show was over, we invite you to visit the narrow path.com. We'll find out the audio teachings blog article verse by verse teachings and the archives. It shows learn and enjoy the thank you for supporting the listener supported narrow path. Greg has radio broadcast Steve Greg were live for another half-hour taking your calls. Questions about the Bible, Christian faith, feel free to call.

Once again our lines are full but if you take this number down and call a few minutes from now, you may very well find a line has opened up the number is 844-484-5737 and our next caller is Marty from national city, California Marty, welcome to the narrow path started. All we do hope so. After God created the stars and the lights it seemed to be a done deal. But I put that out in space exploration that space is actually accelerating and thinking and thinking about it more and went to be connected to the stars in the angelic realm will were things through 1/3 of the stars and when Jesus said to about the woman having seven husband you do not known to the power of God for the right shall be as the Angels that can obtain that which will be actually excited to hear that. If it's true that space is accelerating, but he certainly didn't say to the start, be fruitful and multiply. Thank you Steve okay thank you question all right. Thanks for your call. He waited 25 minutes to say okay John from Westminster, Massachusetts. Welcome to the doing so have a question about giving something about how do you prioritize giving and am thinking about your local church global charities individual you know personally who have a need and then unbelievers and jesus said whatever you do to the least of my brother need new to me and so on. thinking if you give sacrificially to a nonbeliever is that you know is that meritorious and god cited is that links doing good to the body of christ are not and i'll take a? fear your call. so jesus said in matthew 25 points or you if you've done it to the least of these my brethren, you've done it to me and some people think, my brethren refers to the poor.

in general, others especially, some people think you start with the jews and of course jesus himself identified his brethren with those who do the will of his father when this is and who are my mother, who my brethren, those who do the will of my father or my brother, and does so i'm gonna suppose that he's talking to christians there when he turned his brethren, but you're asking what if you do a kindness for a non-christian.

it does not count when yes it actually does.

if it's done for the same motives that you should give to anyone else who's in need to help the poor is a very much very christlike thing to do. jesus gave the story of the good samaritan and he and his assistants that he gave to amanda great need, who is not of the same religion and we don't we don't read their of any proselytizing going on here. he didn't help him just to convert them. he helped because he had compassion on it just like god does not has compassion on people has compassion on believers and unbelievers. when jesus told the rich young ruler to sell what you have and give it to the poor hedonist i say to the righteous poor although no doubt, it was assumed that a lot of poor would be pious jews. maybe all of them but he didn't see it and suggest had to give to those who were part of the disciple community. interestingly, when jesus had this rich potential donor. he didn't say sell junk and bring your money to me or to my movement are my disciples, and will find something good to do it. a distant uncle give the poor man, follow me and so i think helping the poor is a very valid christian action if the units are not christians and i by the way, much of my giving goes to like the poor in haiti and i said it's an organization to just they help the poor indiscriminately.

don't just write that an interview mc for christians first.

people are starving and in the poor and helpless, christ cares about them and we do to and so to help the poor in general is good. however, there is one caveat to that i would, given that's in galatians 610 where paul said. therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, but especially those who are of the household of faith now by that he means that our obligation to our brothers and sisters in christ should be considered to be supreme wheat we want to help everybody that we can as we have opportunity, he says be good everyone, but don't neglect. make sure you don't neglect especially to good to the household of faith. so i think that where there are christian resources available and christians in need that we should be very eager to help our brothers and sisters as a first priority. that doesn't mean that if that that we can help any non-christians until all the christian poor have been helped, but i think that we should be make it a priority of helping the christian portofino if you're given away a certain amount of money to the poor. every year i would think the majority of it should possible go to the christian poor.

if you have that avenue for giving to them is hard to know who's really poor, christian or non-christian in this country because are so many government programs and other things.

and frankly, even the poor in this country are often far better off than the richest people in some third world countries, not the rigid riches, but the average person so we really have to use our judgment or discernment about that, but we do have a prior obligation to the family. that is, to the family of god. so paul says as you have opportunity, do good to all men but especially those of the household of faith. that's galatians 610. now i did mentioning that giving to the church but giving the church is a good thing to. there are some priorities and giving it should not be neglected. one of them would be as pulses also galatians 6 verse six he said that you should share with the one who teaches you the word in it. all good things mean financial things and so i think normally, in most cases of beer pastor or the elders their church. whoever is teaching you, and so that the bottom chamber to support a church building or church organization. there is no they didn't have any of those in the bible times and they want them. there is no obligation the bible to support a church if the church is considered to be a 501(c)(3) organization with the building and all that much for your support you your giving to support the building. all that and staffing salaries over the didn't have any that stuff in the new testament. they had people the church is made of people and the needs of the church were in fact the needs of the people so that's that was a different thing than we are facing most of our modern cases coming when the pastor says we are the church need some money. what he often means is that you pay the salaries of the pastor and the and the other staff and to maintain the buildings.

maybe a new building project and so forth.

if that's the need to talk about. that's not the needs of the church. that's the needs of an organization that's made by man because all churches all all 501(c)(3) corporation churches and i'm not saying they can't have a 501(c)(3) coverage for everyone that does was found by a man. someone had filed an application and so those are man-made organizations.

the real church is comprised of all the people of god. all of christ's people are his church and even in a 501(c)(3) institutional church.

the people in it are the church, not the not the organization. the building is not the church. the salaries are not the church. the church is the people and most their needs are to be most financially to be because they are poor and so helping the poor is almost the only thing that christian money went toward in the book of acts. people who had houses and land sold and brought the money to the apostles feet, but they discourage the poor in the church and maybe also the church to i don't know. but the truth is they didn't have any buildings this quarter salaries and that people you do support the people who teach you that hopefully that your pastor if he passes out teaching you find another church but if your pastor's teaching. you should be concerned about his support if it and you could support missionaries who are who are teaching other people to her care in the gospel. it certainly is a valid thing to do meeting their needs, their travel expenses in their living expenses overseas or whatever.

if people are in full time ministry. the bottle suggests that you know if they are doing valid and fruitful ministry, you should support them but i think you should do it, especially to the ones that are really bearing fruit because frankly there's a lot of churches literally preaching the gospel anymore and no one's really getting save the earth. they're growing is because people come from different churches to join them and interest to support a ministry that doesn't actually bear fruit for the kingdom of god is like dumping god's money down point whole, when in fact there may be missionaries and evangelists in ministries and pastors who really are doing a good job and who really need that support. so helping the poor and supporting the preaching the gospel is the main priorities and when it comes helping the poor. of course, helping non-christian poor is is is within the range of the duty but we should always be most concerned about our brothers and sisters right. i appreciate your call. good question jerry from pittsburgh. welcome to the narrow path. thanks for calling christian not been in a bottle. i like your program you only talk don't talk outside bible and my window teaching. teaching on my questions bible talks about the bible talks about men's bible talks about the bible talks about mohammed and the bible talks about and that's what jesus intranets worms versus the and then it also talks about in the cell and this is that you can bet the bottle foreigners and i just don't understand the differences you well yes i know because it's confusing because sometimes the same concept is spoken of in differing terms and and then sometimes different concepts are spoken of using the same term as each other. for example, the word heaven is used just the word heaven by itself is used three different ways in the bible, sometimes heaven, sometimes in the plural, the heavens is used to speak of the atmosphere around the earth where the birds fly and where the clouds are things like that.

what we call the atmosphere, just the. the air around us is sometimes called heaven because the birds of the heavens are simply birds fly in that heaven now also the stars are in the heaven.

and so that's talk about the what we call the universe or outer space is another reference to heaven so we got the, the band of air around the earthly atmosphere is called the heaven, and then outer space is also called heavens, but then there's also heaven where god lives because john was caught up into heaven in revelation saw the throne of god and the living creatures and the 24 elders and all the angels and suffered to dwell in heaven and and this is not the same thing as the sky whether we target the near sky of the distant sky.

it's not the sky it's it's more of a reference to the spiritual realm that god is spirit. the angels are spirits. this is the realm of spirits and when we die our spirits will depart from our bodies and be with god in in that place now. paul does refer to the third heaven. on one occasion in second corinthians 12.

he said he knew a man who was caught up in the third heaven, but that term is not used anywhere else in scripture and not explained anywhere in scripture which leaves it mysterious unless we understand it as most i think evangelical scholars probably do and that is that he's talking of the fact that there are three different things called heaven the atmosphere as i mentioned earlier outer space is a second one and then the realm where god lives is the third and so the third heaven would simply be heaven. as used in that third sentence instead of the first two sentences of heaven that would be my opinion. also, i think that most evangelicals would assume that, but we don't have any real explanation from paul so we can't do much better on that and when the bombs were being and he's exalted above the heavens.

that's just another way to say he's higher. he's he ranks above everything in the heavens the end of the means heavens like the atmosphere in the outer space heavens. he is above that that makes sense but on other times about justice that he ascended into heaven, so heaven and above the heavens are both places where it says jesus is and so i personally think that those are just different ways different phrases or terms for speak of the same thing when it comes to hell. hell is a very tricky concept in the bible because there's three different greek words in the new testament for hell. what is hades one is tartarus and one is gehenna now. all of these are transit with the same english word hell, but not always, because the word hades is sometimes translated with other words besides health sometimes is translated as the grave and when you read about hades you find that it's the same concept that in the old testament.

hebrews called shale and shale in the old testament, which is hebrew and hades which is greek and the new. both are kind of synonyms and they just refer to the place were dead people go all dead people are not referring as we think of hell to the place of the punishment of the wicked. hades doesn't mean that in children, hades, and she'll refer to where everyone goes when they die including david including the righteous.

they all went to shale when they died and as i say sometimes is referred to as the grave, though scholars would probably mostly be content to say that shale refers to the undifferentiated place of the dead just where it's just basically the concept of their dead during the place of death or whatever.

that is not thinking specifically of punishment of wicked but just that's were dead people are good and that same thing with hades in the new testament now, so that's not really what we call hell. this is for the common end of all people go to hades to the grave. now the other words tartarus is one of them. tartarus is a word is translated. hell in our bible is found only in second peter chapter 2 and it is translated hell that is said to be where the fallen angels have been consigned that says that those angels that didn't keep their first estate know they are kept in chains under darkness and in tartarus is translated hell. but that's not referring to place were people are and perhaps not where people go. it's where angels go for the angels are now who fallen and were not given any explanation of it is just that's how the word is used and is only as one time. the other word that she was fairly frequently in the bible is gehenna. now gehenna is almost always translated hell and it's almost always jesus who uses the word paul never uses it. peter never uses it. john never uses the book of revelation does not use it outside of jesus.

only james uses and he uses it nonliterary.

james says that the tongue is a fire set on fire from gehenna which is of course obviously a figure of speech when jesus used it. he spoke of it as a place where those who reject him will end up after they die. now most commentators translate gehenna as hell, and of course we tend to think of it out for some traditional reason as being where the dead people are punished in in the lake of fire. now there is a lake of fire in the bible is not ever referred to as hell but the lake of fire is probably what most of us think when we think of the word hell but gehenna may be the lake of fire. that's a possibility. i think most christians think so but gehenna is a word that has an actual meaning in the greek it means valley of hannah gehenna is a greek religion is the valley of hannah nutter was actually a valley of hannah right outside jerusalem real valley call back by that name is not in the lake of fire. it was a real valley. so when jesus said gehenna or the light of the valley of him. probably a lot of jews are just things are the valley right outside or to the south west of jerusalem outside the walters valley of now, that valley was used was mentioned in the old testament. jeremiah mentions it twice. isaiah mentions at least once, and i think that it in those cases, they are talking about the actual valley of hannah that is the physical valley than on outside jerusalem in jeremiah told the jews that if they did not repent, the babylonians would come to destroy the city and they would their bodies be stacked in the valley of hannah and isaiah speaks of the term that way to anderson reason to wonder whether, when jesus usually meant the same way they did that in jesus day as in jeremiah's there was the impending doom of the city of jerusalem in jeremiah's day the babylonians came in jesus day. the romans were about to come and and the lost when jerusalem is destroyed, the, the invaders through their corpses into the valley of hannah and so when jesus said, you know you've got a choice you can join my kingdom were going be thrown into the valley of hannah, he could be simply saying that if you don't follow him. you'll his bodily this is the storms never used anyone except palestinian jews is interesting is not talking to the world about gehenna. that's why paul who spoke to gentles never used the term minority peter but jesus and james only wrote it to jews and jesus to palestinian jews who were facing that holocaust in which their bodies could be cast into the valley of him so there's at least the possibility that jesus would not talk about hell even then, but that is talking about the valley of him since that's what he said if he meant the valve him him as a symbol for help.

and that's another thing. and that's what most scholars sick so we don't have you know preachers talk about hell a lot and some of the translations into english of the bible have the word hell fairly often, but the words in the greek and the hebrew their use for them often are not really the same concept as each other. certainly hades and gehenna and tartarus are not all the same thing but there'll translated hell and so and i have to say i don't remember a passage consist of the lowest hell that i would assume that if that passages in the old testament, and that it would be shale, which is this is not the same thing as hell so you didn't want to be confused as much as you are, but now you're more confused, but that's partly because we get confused when we feel that we must understand something for which we don't have enough data, we don't get confused if we don't feel like we have to understand something, even if we don't have notes that we can just be undecided.

that's where i met on some of the sites on many things on many subjects.

i'm aware of. one possibility or another possibility of something, but because they don't matter.

i don't care i don't dickens are not confused. i just don't decide. i don't recommend like dating and so i would suggest on some of these things.

if you find them initially confusing.

you need to ask yourself how important is it for me to know these things in jesus didn't talk very much what heaven or hell. he talked about the kingdom of god, which is something entirely different and he talked about as present at the time so i got the word lowest help my wife help me out here. the word lowest hell is found in deuteronomy 3222 where it is actually shale in the hebrew, so i would just say why would i need to know anything about hell. i don't plan to go there. why would i need to know about heaven.

i don't plan to live there forever because the bible indicates, i will be going there when i die until jesus comes back negative rise from the dead with the rest of the righteous and live with jesus in the new jerusalem and the new earth forever. so i mean, these things are matters of curiosity, but it's very important for us in our spiritual and religious thinking to.

i would say learn to distinguish between things that are mere matters of curiosity on the one hand and on the other hand, matters that are important for spiritual life. i appreciate your call.

jerry hope that may help. it probably didn't help as much is i would like to garrison from botha washington. welcome to the narrow path. thanks for calling. thanks for taking my call. i have a quick question about drinking or for where it says satan is the god of this world and i've been told it could be translated age so my first question is from an millennial perspective is paul talking about age in the jewish age that would end with the destruction of the temple and does that apply to today's statement out of our age and is that also the only reference in scripture that is the only place where the term the god of this age is used in jesus refer to satan three times as the ruler of this age of the ruler of this world, and paul elsewhere in ephesians referred to assist ephesians, he referred to him as the prince of the power here so there's different terms that are used, but the god of this age is only here in first corinthians and so what we think about that what what aging time is a target of the age that ended with the destruction of jerusalem in 70 a.d. or the age that were living in today whole church age. well, this is actually not always easy to tell because there are many ages.

some people like full predators will tell you there's only two agents there's what the bible calls this age and that it's what they call the age to come, and then they will tell you that since the destruction of jerusalem was the end of an age that was the end of what jesus and the apostles called this age because they lived before 70 a.d. so on. they spoke about this ages can temper their own. they were talk about that which would end in 70 a.d. they say and that after 70 became the age to come, so if that's true, then probably paul is thinking of the age before before the destruction of jerusalem.

now i know it's not quite that simple because paul talked about the ages to come. in ephesians sees the expression for the ages to come, and the word ages is used often similar more than one or want more than two pages in certain passages of scripture so you know there is when paul said he was living in this age it's not clear whether he means the age that ended in 70 a.d. or the age that overlap that which ends with the second coming of christ. full predators don't believe there will be a futuristic compressor is not an issue to them but it i think we have to discern between different use microtel the guy about the heaven and hell. different usage of the same term because there are numerous ages now.

i personally believe that satan is still active and whether he's the god of this age i don't think anything happened with reference to him in 70 a.d. about the so i don't in my judgment is rather time.

my judgment is that paul is not targeted at the age that ended 70 but the age that when jesus comes back and i can't give the full defense of that because rather time and perhaps i couldn't defend it beyond controversy even if i had lots of i hope that will give you something to think about that one answer? fred, sorry you listen to the narrow path radio broadcast. my name is steve greg and we are live monday through friday where listener supported and you can help us out if you write to us at the narrow po box 1732 macula ca 92593 or go to our website. the narrow path.com is targeting tomorrow


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