The Narrow Path 8/31

Music Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path Radio Broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we're live for an hour each weekday afternoon. We take your calls if you have questions you want to call in about concerning the Bible or the Christian faith or if you have a different viewpoint from the host you'd like to bring up. We always are glad to hear from you. That's 844-484-5737.

That's 844-484-5737. And I have an announcement to make this week and that is that next Saturday, I've got five days to announce this, next Saturday we have our generally monthly meeting in Temecula, which is just a Q&A meeting, a small gathering, but we'd love to have you join us if you are anywhere around in Southern California and would like to join us in Temecula next Saturday. Saturday night, we do it, like I say, once a month. If you're interested in that, just go to our website, thenarrowpath.com and it'll give you the information about time and place.

That's coming up this Saturday. Now we have lines open. We'll take a call right now, but we have lines open if you'd like to join us. The number is 844-484-5737. Our first caller today is Jerry from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Jerry, welcome to The Narrow Path.

Thanks for calling. Now, I was a Catholic and the first one is confession. It talks about you must confess your sins one to another in James. Adam sinned. He had inequity in his heart. And like I said, James says you must confess your sins one to another.

And you can't do that. You can't hide iniquity in your heart. So I was a Catholic and I would go to confession. Oh, the other thing was you take communion. And when you take communion, you're taking the body of Christ and you must have a pure heart. The Catholics taught me that. And I would go to confession every Saturday.

And by the time Sunday came, Adam sinned already. So I am not taking communion for 40 years because I never had a clean heart. Do you understand where I'm coming from? And then I'll let you talk. I don't want to talk anymore. The last question is I can't find anything in the Bible about masturbation.

Is masturbation a sin? And I'll let you talk. Thank you so much. All right.

Well, thank you for your call. Now, as far as confession of sins goes, James does say in James chapter 5, confess your sins one to another. He does not mention anything like confessing to a priest, by the way.

It's just to one another. We can confess to each other our sins. However, it's not our confession to each other that forgives us or that somehow causes God to give us our sins. It gives us some strength and time of temptation to have other people who know that we have a problem and that they can pray for us and that they may be keeping us accountable. Just being open about our sins with people who can be trusted with that information is a good thing. And in the context of James, he is talking about a person who is sick.

And perhaps James has someone in mind who's dying. And he says, call for the elders of the church and let them anoint him with the oil in the name of the Lord and so forth. Then a couple of verses later, it says, confess your faults one to another and pray one for another that you may be healed.

So, you know, in that context, it may be a person on his deathbed calling for someone. Which is extreme unction, but just somebody getting right with God when they're sick and possibly going to die. But as far as regular confession to a priest, there's nothing in the Bible about it. What it does say in 1 John chapter 1 and verse 9 is if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Now, he is God and we confess our sins to God.

But it's not just a thing we do with our mouth. Because Isaiah said, these people draw near me with their mouths, but their hearts are far from me. You verbally confess your sin because in your heart you're repentant of the sin. As far as taking communion goes, the Bible doesn't necessarily teach what the Catholic Church teaches about that. They teach that, you know, you're taking the literal body and the literal blood of Jesus into you. And the Bible doesn't actually say that.

And I don't think it teaches that. And I don't think that taking communion or taking the meal is what saves or doesn't save a person. Though, of course, Christians are supposed to be in fellowship together, including having the fellowship meal at which they would take what we call communion. And that's what we do in our heart. And that's what we do as our Savior and as our King. And if it's in our heart, then it's going to be in our behavior.

The idea is not that we once in a while do something to see if the coast is clear now and if we can go out again without being under God's wrath. The idea is that all that God's looking for is someone who's totally devoted to him. I don't know if you're married or have been married, but when people get married, they're not just living a life of selfishness and once in a while getting together and confessing to each other that they're married.

They've hurt each other and done bad things. Marriage is a couple of people being devoted to each other, living for each other, being partners in this world. And that's what being saved is. God is married to us and we're married to God. And our whole life is defined by our relationship with Christ as our King, which means that there's nothing in our life that doesn't spring out of our devotion to following and serving him. We're supposed to be doing even those things to the glory of God. There's really nothing so minor that we shouldn't be doing it as an act of obedience or expression of our relationship with God.

If we have that relationship, then what do we do? Once in a while we will still sin, but we'll confess our sin and God will forgive us and we'll just move along. It says that in 1 John chapter 2 in verse 1, he says, These things I write unto you so you don't sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And he's the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

So Jesus, excuse me, Jesus is the one who died for our sins. And if we walk with Christ, his blood cleanses us from all sin. If we do sin, we confess it to him and don't do it again and just keep walking with him. Now, a lot of people have a very different approach to the whole matter of religion, and that is they have a religious approach instead of a relational approach.

Jesus came to put us into a relationship with God and with himself that is a saving relationship. But many people have reduced Christianity to a religious activity, whether that involves going to confession or taking the Eucharist or attending church or paying tithes or even reading your Bible, those kind of things. Some people think if I just do that enough, God will be happy with me, or I hope he will. Where God's not happy with us for doing a certain number of deeds, he's happy with us if our heart is devoted to him.

And if your heart is not devoted to him, and I don't know that yours is or is not, but it sounds like you may be thinking of a relation with God as involving certain religious activities instead of having a relationship with him. And that may be why you never feel clean. You also asked about masturbation. The Bible doesn't speak directly on the subject of masturbation.

There's no mention of it. There is, of course, a reference to Onan, who withdrew during intercourse so that he wouldn't impregnate Tamar. But that's not exactly the same thing, but it might be in principle similar. The Bible does not really discuss that particular issue, but what it does discuss is the need for us to walk in the Spirit so that we don't fulfill the lust of the flesh. Now, whether it's a sin or not, it is an act of the flesh, and it's one that is definitely questionable. I mean, I know pastors who think it's okay. I mean, they counsel people that it's okay. I know others who think that it's absolutely not, that it's a form of fornication.

Since the Bible doesn't address it, I can't really put it in one or the other category, but I can put it in the category of the flesh. It is definitely a lust of the flesh that many people feel, at least those who succumb to it. They feel embarrassed. They feel shamed.

That doesn't sound to me like something that they ought to be doing if it's making them ashamed. It sounds like their conscience isn't favoring it. And so, if a person feels guilty about any particular thing they're doing, they should be able to have self-control if they're walking in the Spirit. Now, here's the guideline for sexual purity that Paul gives in 1 Thessalonians, chapter 4, verse 3. He says, For this is the will of God, your sanctification. That means that you're being wholly set apart for God.

You're wholly devoted to God. He says that you should abstain from sexual immorality, that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel, meaning control his body, in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God. So, Paul's saying the goal is to have total self-control in the area of your lusts, of your sexuality. And that's basically what constitutes immorality. He refers to immorality. He doesn't list all the things that are immoral. There are quite a list in some of his passages. But what he does say is that God wants us to possess our vessel, that is, control our bodies, in a way that's sanctified and honorable.

Paul doesn't say specifically one thing you can consult is, frankly, your conscience. Is it something shameful? Do you feel honorable? Is it something you would want to have broadcast on the front page of the newspaper because it's such an honorable thing?

I think not. And so, you know, I would say you need to aim at complete self-control, but that's not a legalistic behavior. That's walking in the Spirit. That comes again when you're totally devoted to Christ, when God fills you with his Spirit. And you walk in the power and under the leading of his Spirit.

That's what is the norm. And I think each time you've called, I can tell that you're struggling with guilt and things like that. And it's something that really, I think that might come from your Catholic background.

You know, religion or a walk with God as a religious thing. And they often have the impression that God's kind of an angry, mean kind of a God. So you better not, you know, avoid dotting an I or crossing a T properly because he might just send you to hell.

Well, God does allow people to go to hell, but he's not angry in the sense of hard to please. He's the one who so loved the world that he sent his son to die for the world. That means he was on our side.

You don't send your son to die for somebody else unless you're on their side in a big way. God is on the side of people. He's on the side even of sinners. Jesus was called by his religious critics, a friend of sinners, which is, of course, what he was.

But they thought that was scandalous. But being a friend of sinners is exactly what God is. You know, God is such, Jesus said, greater love has no man than this. They lay down his life for his friends. And so Jesus laid down his life for sinners because God loves sinners.

So you don't have to look at God as somebody who's going to be just so peevish and with a short fuse and who's gonna be so angry at people who are trying to find him, trying to live for him and really blown it because they're weak. Remember, Jesus told his disciples to pray for an hour, and they couldn't. They fell asleep.

They're too tired. He said to them, Well, the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. He was sympathetic. He was disappointed.

Let me just say this. God is certainly disappointed when we sin, but he's not disappointed in some angry man who's gonna lash out unless we can somehow hide from his wrath. He loves us. He's sympathetic towards. He knows the flesh is weak. It says in Psalm 103, he knows our frame.

He remembers that we're dust. You know, he has not dealt with us according to our sins or rewarded us according to our iniquities. You might want to read Psalm 103 verses one through 14.

Let me suggest that. Psalm 103 verses one through 14, because that tells you what kind of God there is. And then you have to decide. Do you want to love him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength? If the answer is yes, then he'll be very pleased with you.

And you can just surrender to your life to him and seek to live for his glory and trust in Christ as your king and Lord and savior. And that's what I think you're you might be lacking. And I do feel very sorry for you every time you call because you're really struggling with guilt.

And I'm not sure why it's not connecting. I mean, I've told you what the Bible says, but I know sometimes the place our head is at. Someone can tell you something. Just go off.

It's like water off a duck's back. And I I'm not sure what the hang up is, but I do know that you're struggling. And I hope that you'll get to know God for who he is.

And I would say if you're still going to a Catholic church, you probably need to get away from there, because that's, I think, what has been communicating to you a wrong idea of what it means to be a follower of Christ. All right. Let's talk to Cedric in Corvallis, Oregon. Hey, long time no hear, Cedric. Good to hear from you. Good to talk to you, Steve.

The last time I called, I didn't come through very well. So I just want to ask, can you hear me OK? Yes. Yes. You're good and loud. Go ahead.

Great. I'm calling about the issue of justice today. You have been you've received calls in the past about the church getting involved in some of the racial issues that are going on right now in our country. You have suggested to people to watch the voting box video, which I did to listen to your justice lecture, which I did. But it seems like on those calls, you take it to the area of social justice. And I agree with you that social justice is not the charge of the church, but you've also said that you can't put a word in front of justice and still have it be biblical.

That's a paraphrase. I'm curious to know, to understand from you, why is racial justice not correct? And I know.

Well, you have said in the past that it's because racial justice deals with a group and justice is about an individual. Yeah. But yet. But yet.

Martin Luther King called the church in his letter to the Birmingham from the Birmingham jail to get involved and to help. Right. And so I wonder if you've heard that and what you think about that. But also, yeah, I actually quote I actually quote in my book, in my book that's coming out in a few weeks, I actually quote a number of times from that letter.

OK, good. I'm still struggling with why you believe the church has no role in dealing with what's going on with race in our country right now. From a biblical perspective, I'm not sure what you mean, what's going on with race.

The church has a role of making disciples and standing for justice. Now, I don't believe there's such a thing as economic justice that's separate from regular justice or racial justice that's separate from regular justice. I'm a white man. You're a black man. And we are and we are both obligated to treat each other justly. I don't I don't I'm not obligated to keep you, treat you justly because you're black and I'm not.

But because you're a man and and all men are to treat each other justly. The problem in Martin Luther King's day was that especially in the south and maybe other parts of the country, there was a whole race of men who are not being treated like men for the most part now. But then that's not that wasn't true of everyone. There were white people who treated black people justly.

And but but and so it wasn't really a group thing. It was like individuals have to treat people justly. And you either you either treat people justly or unjustly. And no matter what race they are, justice is always required.

Injustice is always wrong. So now, in my case, I've never really of course, I'm white, but I've I've never really seen racial prejudice in a in a very obvious way where I live. I have a number of black friends and they don't seem to be concerned about it either.

They're not into social justice causes that they're Christians and they and they believe that. I mean, I'm sure that none of them would deny that there are racists around who made words, slight words to them or whatever. But I'm sure every black person has experienced some racial prejudice.

And if I if I was a white man in a black country, I could very well experience some unjust treatment, perhaps, or at least on judge, unkind treatment from from people like when I was in Cameroon. My wife and I were the only white people we ever saw there, except for some others that were on our team. And, you know, I mean, we'd walk down the street and there wasn't another white face there. And I'll tell you what, there was a lot more suspicious looks toward us than I've ever seen in this country toward any race.

You know, but that's OK. I realized that, you know, I was a minority. They weren't used to seeing people like me. They didn't know what to think about me. White people, by the way, had exploited Cameroon.

I think it was the French had exploited them. And I can see why they might be a little upset with white people. But if they treated me worse than they treat one of their own neighbors, then that would be unjust. On the other hand, if they just have suspicions toward me, well, I can't blame them for that. There's there's there's no thought crimes that that we are supposed to be, you know, prosecuting. People can think whatever they want about me or about you or someone else or about Jesus, about me as a Christian.

I mean, lots of people think awful things about Christians, but OK, what people think is fine if they if they burn my house down. That's an issue because that's committing an injustice against me. And so, you know, I don't see it as a racial issue.

I see it as a human issue. Everyone has to treat everyone else justly. And if they do, then there's not going to be any white people who treat black people in just because both are people and all people have the same obligation. By the way, but the Black Lives Matter people should be treating people justly, too. And when they burn down some I would agree, you know, I'm not a supporter of the Black Lives Matter movement. That's why I'm really seeing some injustice. But go ahead.

Follow up. Yeah, I agree. And I'm not a supporter of the Black Lives Matter movement. I don't agree with what they're doing. And so, yeah, and I'm not talking about social justice as a whole. But my question is, if the church identifies and recognizes that there is an injustice that's taking place towards a group of people. Is it not the role of the church to speak up or to teach their their their attendees, their tenders or whoever they have a role and a voice to speak to? Is it not the role of the church to speak up and say something about it? And if the role of the church is to teach their members to love their fellow man as Christ loves them, to love their neighbor as they love themselves. If they do that, then there won't be an issue of race in the church because they're people of other races are their fellow men. I mean, every church I've gone to has had black people in it and Asian people in it and Hispanic people in it. And I haven't really noticed anyone treating them badly. Now, if you're saying that that there's a lot of people in some parts of the country who treat a lot of black people badly because they're black. Well, then that would be an issue.

I don't I guess I don't see that. And I think a lot of people who claim that that happens and it probably is happening in some areas, but a lot of the things they publicized are not true. I mean, that that Jussie Smollett thing, I mean, that's so interesting that he had to invent a racial hate crime, a hoax, because there aren't enough of them taking place that are real. And I think this has happened again and again.

This happened again and again. There's there's been, what, dozens now of racial hate crimes that were in the news that had to be retracted because they were faked. And I think, well, you know, the Nazis, the Jews didn't have to create fake Nazi attacks on Jews to let people know that there's problems because there was real problems between the Nazis and the Jews. But I think most black people who aren't living in the inner city, let us say, and I don't blame those who do for being different in this respect. I think most people who live in the suburbs or whatever, I think mostly they'd say, yeah, they get along pretty good with white people. You know, the white people aren't treating me very differently. Now, I don't know how you've been treated. You can maybe give me some input on that. Well, how white people treat mostly where I live now, I don't experience racism as often as I used to, but I have here in Oregon.

I do in certain parts of Oregon where I travel. But you're answering my question relative to churches teaching the people in the church. I'm asking about the church recognizes something that is going on outside the church, let's say in terms of housing or economics where banks are not willing to loan to a certain group of people or what have you. Does the church have a role in speaking up against that?

If nothing else, just to say to their own people who attend that that's wrong to call it out as being wrong. Well, he was talking about loving your neighbor, you should love yourself. That's what the story was illustrating. The lawyer said, well, who's my neighbor?

And he said, well, let me tell you a story. He's saying your neighbor, the Samaritan, who's of a different race and religion than you, he's your neighbor, you have to love him and he has to love you. And that's really what the church has to say. Where there are actual cases of injustice outside the church, I think the church does speak out against it. I don't know of any church that didn't speak out against the George Floyd situation.

And that was before we knew very much about it. Hey, I need to take a break, Cedric, but I hope I hope we've kind of touched on your issues enough. Thank you, Steve. I appreciate it. Good talking to you. God bless you. Thank you. We've got another 30 minutes coming up.

Don't go away. We have to take just a short break. Our website is the narrow path dot com and I'll be right back. The Book of Hebrews tells us do not forget to do good and to share with others. So let's all do good and share the narrow path with Steve Gregg, with family and friends. When the show is over today, tell one and all to go to the narrow path dot com where they can study, learn and enjoy. With free topical audio teachings, blog articles, verse by verse teachings and archives of all the narrow path radio shows. And be sure to tell them to tune into the show right here on the radio. Sure, listeners supported the narrow path with Steve Gregg.

Share and do good. Welcome back to the narrow path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we're live for another half hour taking your calls. You got questions about the Bible or the Christian faith. We'll be glad to talk about them.

You have a different viewpoint than that of the host. We'll be glad to talk about that, too. One problem we've got is our lines are full. That's a good problem to have. I like having that problem, but it's a problem for you if you're not one of the calls waiting and you want to call in because you'll get a busy signal if you call at this time. However, if you call back in 5, 10 minutes, something like that, there's a very good chance there'll be a line open for you. So let me give you this number so you'll have it handy. The number is 844-484-5737.

That's 844-484-5737. Now, I'm having a meeting this Saturday night in Temecula. It's a Q&A meeting and you're welcome to join us.

You can find information about it at our website, thenarrowpath.com, under the tab that says Announcements. Just want to say that we refer to this as a monthly meeting. However, after this month, we won't have it for a couple of months because I'll be out of town in October. So we won't be having an October Temecula meeting.

So after this one, it's two months before the next one. So if you're interested in coming, check it out on the website, thenarrowpath.com and under the tab that says Announcements. All right. Well, we've got our lines full, so let's talk to these callers. We've got to talk next to Wayne from Sacramento, California. Wayne, welcome to The Narrow Path.

Thanks for calling. Hello? Hi, Wayne. How are you doing, Steve? Good, thanks.

Let me turn the radio down. That's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah, I got a question. So I can't get an answer for it, so I'm hoping you can answer it.

We'll work on it. So we heard some people arguing about religion, about Muslims and Jehovah's, all the rest. So I'm a Christian, so somebody asked me, what makes you write, am I religion wrong? So what is the question to that? Are we all looking at the same God?

I don't understand that, so I couldn't give him an answer to that. Well, even if we are all looking at the same God, we're not all seeing him correctly. For example, the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims all believe in one God who's the creator of all people and all things. And frankly, Jews, Muslims and Christians also believe that that God was the God of Abraham.

These are called Abrahamic religions because they believe in the God of Abraham. Now, arguably, the God who made all things and who was the God of Abraham is there's only one God like that. So anyone who believes in that God has got to be believing in the same one because there's not another one.

On the other hand, a person's beliefs about that God could be so far wrong that they practically have a different God in mind. Now, for example, Christianity has always taught that there's a Trinity, that God exists in Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and this is a distinctly Christian belief, and as such, Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God or part of that Trinity. Jews believe in the same God, apparently, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, just like we do, but they don't believe those things about him. You know, Jews don't believe in a Trinity. They don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God. They don't believe God has a Son, and if they did, they don't think it would be Jesus. And Muslims also don't believe in a Trinity.

They think it's a false doctrine. They do believe Jesus was very special. The Muslims actually have a higher view of Jesus than the Jews do. The Jews believe he is Mishumid. He was a heretic, a troublemaker, a false prophet.

In fact, the Talmud says he was a sorcerer. The Muslims believe he is the greatest prophet there ever was. They believe we should follow Mohammed rather than Jesus because Mohammed came later than Jesus, and they feel like we should follow the latest prophet that God sent, but they do believe that Jesus was an even greater prophet than Mohammed, which means that the Muslims have, apart from Christians, have just about the highest view of any religion of Jesus, but they still don't have the same beliefs about God that we do or about Jesus because they don't believe he's God.

In fact, they think it's blasphemy to say he's the Son of God. So in other words, you say, do we have the same God? Well, technically, it's hard to say how to understand that, but there is only one God described as the creator of all things and the God of Abraham, and there are three religions that say they believe in him, but they don't all believe the same things about him.

So there's two ways to look at that. Some people say it's three different gods, and some people would say it's God, it's the same God, but they don't believe the right things about it, and it's just as bad. Frankly, if your views of God are so far from the truth, it might as well be a different God. Now, how do we know ours is the correct one? How do we know our religion is true?

Well, that's an interesting question to ask. Well, we should have that answer ready at hand even before we meet other religions. I mean, there should be a reason why I'm a believer in Christ. Even if there was never any other religion to contest it, I should have a reason that I become a believer. Why do I believe in Christ?

Well, I believe in Christ because of the things he did and the things he said, and we know what he said and did because we have very reliable records of him from people who knew him. In terms of the four gospels, these were historical biographies written by people very close to him, either close enough to have been walking with him or at least to live with people who did, and so they're very accurate sources compared to any other historical sources we have of other ancient people. We don't have any other ancient people who walked with and made biographies of the person they're talking about. Well, we might have one or two, but we don't have anything like the four gospels.

There's four different witnesses there. So, I mean, we have historical records of what Jesus said and did. He claimed to be the Messiah. He claimed to be the Son of God. He claimed to be, as it were, the I Am, which is a name for Yahweh. He did miracles to show that he wasn't just blowing smoke, and he raised from the dead, and that was after he said he would. He told his disciples numerous times he was going to rise from the dead on the third day.

He died, and he rose from the dead the third day. So, I mean, these are pretty good evidences that we're backing the right horse here. Now, what do the Muslims or the Jews have to compare with that or Hindus, for that matter, or the Buddhists or any other religion? Well, they have leaders and founders who claim certain things. Now, Moses founded the Jewish faith, and he certainly was a servant of God, but he predicted that there would be another prophet like himself that God would send. In Deuteronomy 18, Moses said, you know, the Lord will send another prophet like me, and he says you have to listen to him. Whoever doesn't listen to him will be cut off from the people, and the Christians say, yeah, that was right. Moses made the prediction, and Jesus came, and he's the prophet.

That he was talking about. So, you know, Moses was right, but the Jews who reject Christ would be wrong then because Moses predicted Christ. In fact, Jesus said that to them in John chapter 5. He says, you know, who's going to condemn you on the day of judgment?

It's not me. He says it would be Moses. Moses is going to condemn you because he spoke about me, and you don't believe in me. He said if you don't believe in him, how are you going to believe in me? He's basically saying you don't believe what Moses said because you're not believing what he said about me. And so the Jew who has not made the step of receiving Christ as the Messiah is a person who's locked in a religion that's defunct, a religion that's moved on. God has fulfilled the promises that were made when he founded that religion and introduced a new element, and they're just not going there with him. They're not going with God on that.

They like it the way it was. And so that's why we have reason to believe that they're wrong. Now, the Muslim religion was made up by Mohammed. I know that the Muslims believe that he received a revelation from Gabriel, the angel Gabriel, and that the Koran was given to him and that the Koran says different things about God and Jesus. But Mohammed didn't really give any reasons why we should believe him except that he said it. To my mind, it's very much like the Mormons. The Mormons say, well, we're changing our whole Christian religion because Joseph Smith said so.

Yeah, but who is he? Well, he's a prophet. Well, why should I believe he's a prophet?

Crickets. You know, there's really no good reason to believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet. There's certainly not any objective proof that Mohammed was a prophet.

I mean, anyone who's a charlatan could have done the same things, and yet a charlatan could not do the same things that Jesus did. So if someone says, well, you've got all these religions. How do you know yours is right? Well, I know mine is right without even any criticism of the other religions, though I do have criticisms of them. But if there was no alternative religion to criticize, I would know why I believe what I do. After all, if there are no other religions, I could be an atheist instead of a Christian. But the evidence isn't in favor of atheism. The evidence is in favor of Christianity. That's why we know we're right.

Not because we're proud, but because we examine. It's just like, you know, if you read several different news stories and they give the same different information, but you know somebody who was there and wrote one of the stories, and in fact several people who were, and they all say the same thing, but all the other stories were written by people who weren't there and they're making stuff up. Well, you just know who's telling the truth, the ones who were there, the ones who know what's going on, unless they had reason to deceive, but the apostles who wrote the Gospels had no reason to deceive.

They didn't get anything out of it except martyrdom, so why would they lie? Wow. Thank you very much. All right, brother.

That is clarity. Thank you very much, Steve. I appreciate it. Thanks for your call, Wayne. All right, let's talk next to Wesley in Nevada.

Wesley, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling. Hey, Steve. God bless you.

How do you hear me? Good. Hearing you good. Okay, very good. I heard a sermon yesterday that basically the preacher said, you know, God's in control, God has the heart of the king in his hand, and some other scriptures, some psalms, and maybe Isaiah.

Yeah, that was Proverbs 21.1. Go ahead. Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I didn't write him down, but okay.

Thanks for correcting me, man. And he said so basically just, you know, just chill out, everything that's going on in the United States and everything is God's in control of it all. So I'm asking myself, wow, you know, I mean, we're a country that has, what, 70 million abortions and ongoing and the rise of homosexuality getting such a power and everything, and I'm asking. So regarding a spiritual kingdom and physical kingdom and the scripture that says Satan is a god of this world, and I understand over all, according to Revelation, that God is in control, but in this physical world we live in, who's in control of this world, the fallen world, in a physical sense, not a spiritual sense?

Or can you separate the two? Well, it appears to me that man is in charge of the world. When God made man and woman, he said, let us make man in our image and let's give him dominion over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and the animals and the plants and so forth. So God gave humans dominion over the earth and he has never revoked it. Unfortunately, the humans made the mistake of coming in league with Satan so that they themselves become the slaves of Satan.

Man still runs the world, but Satan has become the de facto rulers of the world because people follow him and therefore the world tends to fulfill his agendas, or at least did, until God stepped in. And God raised up Jesus from the dead and seated him as right hand, as king of all, gave him all authority in heaven and earth. So Jesus is the real ruler, but Jesus does not rule by force. All earthly rulers typically do.

They've got police force or armies or whatever to enforce their laws. Jesus rules gently and lovingly and seeks to persuade. His method of winning people is to persuade them not to put a knife to their throat, which is one difference between Jesus and Muhammad, for example. So because Jesus is ruling but he's not making everything happen that he wants to happen, he's still leaving it to people to make choices. He has given us the ministry of going out and bringing people through persuasion under the lordship of Christ and then discipling them to walk in his ways. And this has been going on for 2,000 years and there's frankly millions, hundreds of millions of people who are walking in his ways and more every day.

And so the idea is that very slowly the kingdom, like a little mustard seed, grows into a great tree or like a little stone that grows into a great mountain to fill the earth, as Daniel described it in Daniel 2.44. And so Jesus is on the throne, but in terms of making things happen, most of the time it's just man left to himself to do what he wants to do. Now, God can intervene any time because Jesus does have authority. If there's something that a man is about to do that is absolutely not tolerable from God's point of view, that Jesus simply won't allow it, well, Jesus can stop it and he does. He's done that many times and he also intervenes in our lives individually. But for a preacher to say, you know, just chill out, God's in control, that seems kind of simplistic because God has really been in control of his universe ever since he made it and still there's been some horrible disasters and people have suffered terribly. Again, because God, who is in control, has chosen to let man control many things, including, you know, his personal behavior and much of social behavior.

And there's some pretty awful stuff that goes on that God did not ordain and God did not interfere with. He could, but if he interfered with every case, then there, you know, then he's not really giving people the right to sin. And of course, God made people free will so they could choose to please him or not please him. And many choose not to please him. And he could, if every time someone chose not to please him, he stopped them.

Well, then it kind of changes the whole program. He's allowing them to make their decisions. But, I mean, I believe God's in control in this sense. I mean, the Bible says the angel of the Lord encamps around about them that fear him and delivers them. So I believe that if I fear God, that his angel surrounds me.

I've got bodyguards, unseen bodyguards with me all the time. Now, I can still get hurt because God sometimes allows or wants me to suffer trials of various kinds. That's part of his program. Part of his program is to grow me up, to toughen me up, to mature me.

And trials are one of the things he uses. So he will sometimes have the angel step aside and let affliction come. We see that happening in Job. Job was surrounded by protection from God. The devil complained about it and asked for permission to do him some harm. And God, knowing that this would be better for Job than for Satan, went ahead and allowed it to happen. And it turned out better for Job. Job was blessed doubly in the end of the story.

And he's one of the most famous people who's ever lived on earth. And everyone admires him because of his patience and so forth. So, I mean, Job suffered for a little while, as we all will.

But Job really came out on top of that one. And we will, too. The Bible says all things work together for good to those who love God and who are called according to His purpose. So, you know, God's in control. But He sometimes allows harm to come to us if there's a good result that He thinks can come from it. That's His business. And so I don't know what people are worried about.

If they're worried that something could happen to them, like hurt them, that they could get killed or that criminals could get them or that someone will burn their business down or something like that. Well, those things could happen. I mean, the fact that God's in control doesn't prevent those things from happening.

You can see it on television. It's happening. God didn't stop it. You could be one of those people that that happens to. So could I. But not unless God allows it. And God does. The point is, am I afraid to have bad things happen to me if that's what God allows? Or would I rather be kept safe from those things and not be in the will of God and not improve, not grow?

Well, that's a choice I suppose I can make. But God's still going to make the choice of what happens because He'll either protect me or He won't. The main thing is that because we know God is in control, we know that nothing is going to happen to us that He would have preferred to stop happening, especially for praying. If we pray, we are actually activating God's hand in our lives. If we don't pray, James says, well, you have not because you asked not. If you don't ask God for something that He wants to give you, He may not give it to you.

And things may go worse for you because of it. But we're supposed to be praying about everything and everything by prayer and supplication with Thanksgiving. Make your request known to God, Paul said in Philippians 4. So our prayers engage God in the affairs of the world. But He still lets man run free most of the time. And that's apparently God's choice because God wouldn't have to do that. So the man who said God's in control, that's true. If he says chill out because God's in control, if he means by that because God's in control, nothing bad is going to happen. I don't agree with that. Bad things happen all the time with God in control.

But I would say we could go further. If God's in control and you're one of His and bad things happen, God can work that out for the good, even if it includes your death, because you're going to die of something anyway. If you die trusting God, you're in the safest place of all. But it's a nuanced question, obviously. God is in control.

Man is in control. The devil's in control of some people. But really, ultimately, at the top of the pile is God and Christ. Nothing will happen that they don't at least permit, especially to His own people.

Okay. Well, my theology that I believe in, I believe that the world is going to progressively get worse until Christ comes. Am I correct in that according to what you believe? I don't have any real precise information from Scripture about how things will go as far as progressively. I do believe there's a time, a little season at the end where Satan is loosed to persecute the church more than normal. That's mentioned in Revelation 20, verses 7 through 8. So I believe things will get very hard for the church for a little season at the end of the present age. That's my reading of that passage. But how long that will last, no man knows. It may be very short, or it might be a longer period of time. But as far as the world getting worse and worse just from this point to the end, that depends how far the end is.

If there's another hundred years, the world might still get better for a while before it gets worse. I don't know. Okay. All right, well thank you. Appreciate it, and God bless you. Okay Wesley, thanks for your call. All right, let's see here.

Ray from San Gabriel, California. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling. Hello Steve, hear me okay?

Yes, thanks for waiting. Okay, and theology, the Trinity, everybody's supposed to be co-equal as I understand it. But as I read through the Scriptures, in Jesus' life it was all about the Father's will. And you have verses like John 14, 28, the Father is greater than I. Romans 15, 6, the God and Father of Jesus. It just seems to me, reading through the Scriptures, it's like the Father is the top of the Trinity or something, not so much co-equal. Well, the Father is indeed God, and Jesus is His Word, and the Holy Spirit is His Spirit. And His Word and His Spirit are not entirely things that can be disassociated with Himself. I don't know that there's a hierarchy per se, but I do know that when Jesus came to earth, He put Himself below His Father.

There certainly was a hierarchy then. That period of time that Jesus was on earth, that 33 years, Jesus definitely was lower than His Father. I mean, that's what the Bible says in Philippians 2, that while previously He existed in the form of God, He emptied Himself and took on Himself the form of a servant.

And having humbled Himself that far, He further humbled Himself to the death of the cross. Therefore God has highly exalted Him and given Him a name above every name. So the time that Jesus was here, He was definitely humbled and made Himself a form of a servant, which God is not. And Jesus lived as a servant under His Father, just like we are.

So, you know, if we think of Jesus as God, and I think most Christians do, then it seems strange that Jesus was talking about God the Father and Himself being different and God the Father greater than Himself. But if we recognize Jesus not simply as God but as God in the flesh, that in the flesh is an important factor. When God takes on a human form, He becomes a human being. And that's what Jesus was. He was a man. The Bible says there's one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus.

So Jesus, God became a man in Jesus. And as a man, He didn't come down here in order to take charge. He didn't have to do that.

He could have stayed where He was. He came down here to become a servant. And therefore Jesus always describes Himself when He's here on earth as subservient to His Father and reduced. You know, when He exists in the form of God, He had no limitations.

When He took on a human form, He was limited to a human body and its weaknesses. So that is why I think He spoke that way. Okay, it's just, you know, it's not something that's going to, you know, make my fates any less, but it just kind of struck me.

How can they be equal once all the way this stuff? I mean, even the Holy Spirit is bringing stuff from the Father and Jesus is intermediary between us and the Father. So it just, you know, it's just something I was wondering about. Sure. Well, I mean, we are having a conversation because we can hear each other's voices. My voice is the intermediary between me and you right now.

You don't see me. I can't just beam my thoughts into your head, but I can speak them and you can hear them. And my voice is the means by which I communicate myself and my thoughts and my beliefs to you.

And they are mine. I'm a person. But my word communicate my self to you and my convictions and my beliefs and so forth. So Jesus is the word. My word is not less than me, but it isn't all of me either.

My word is an expression of me. The way that the Eastern Orthodox explain the Trinity, and I don't know if this is true, but it's I mean, it makes sense to me. They say that God the Father is like the sun in the sky, the solar orb.

That's that's like the father. The light that comes from the sun is like Christ, who's the light of the world, who emanates from the father. And the heat from the sun is like the spirit or the power, the solar power that comes from the sun is like the Holy Spirit.

That's the power of God. We've got Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the expression of God in his word, Christ, and the power of God in his spirit. But is a man's expression or his power something other than himself? Or is it just they're just aspects of himself? And that's kind of that's what I think, you know, makes sense of the scriptures. And that is, like I say, a classic Orthodox way of looking at things.

OK, so it's pretty much just they're different roles more than being unequal. Right. Hey, I'm out of time. I'm sorry to say I appreciate your call. Thank you.

It's our first time. Have a good rest of your day. I appreciate your calling. And, you know, on the radio, we always have a limited amount of time. And sometimes when you get a really deep question, it's frustrating because we just don't have the time to totally unscrew the inscrutable here on the air. But we try. We work on it. You're listening to the Narrow Path radio broadcast.

My name is Steve Gray. We are a listener supported ministry. We pay for the time on the radio if you'd like to write to us. The address is The Narrow Path. P.O. Box 1730 Temecula, California, 92593. Our Web site is thenarrowpath.com. Thanks for joining us. Let's talk again tomorrow. God bless you.