The Case for the Covid Vaccines

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. My guest today is going to make the case for the COVID vaccines. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us today, friends, on the line of fire.

This is Michael Brown. January 1st of this year, we started the new year with an interview that I did with Dr. Frank Schallenberger, highly respected in his profession, and he had grave concerns about the COVID vaccines that were available and raised some strong warnings about going ahead and getting the vaccine. That's the one and only interview we did on this, and it was from someone presenting a negative perspective. Today, I'm going to speak with Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, PhD in chemistry, Young Earth creationist, scholar, and a strong, strong believer in the authority of Scripture along with us, and he is going to make the case for the COVID vaccines. My role here is to raise some questions that have been submitted to me by others and to take your calls to allow you to ask Dr. Sarfati questions. 866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-87, 884. My role here is not to advocate either position because I am not qualified to do so, which is why when people ask me for advice about the vaccines, I tell them, do the research, ask God for wisdom, and make an informed decision.

And then, of course, above all, do everything you can to live a healthy lifestyle. So, without further ado, I want to bring on Dr. Sarfati. He's got great credentials. He's a brilliant man, former New Zealand chess champion, and as I said, respected Young Earth Creation scholar.

I've often used his commentary on Genesis from a Young Earth perspective, but again, PhD in chemistry gives him relevant background in this field as well. Jonathan, thanks for, all right, we lost him already. That's not conspiratorial. I don't know what happened, but we lost him already. So, guys, let's reconnect there, all right? In the meantime, in the meantime, let me say this. I saw two headlines yesterday. One, that the fifth conservative radio host who is anti-COVID vaccine has now passed away of COVID. Bob Enyard.

I was on his show in the past, so that struck closer to home in terms of that's someone that I knew at least on the radio. And then, an Israeli and then an Israeli activist, anti-vax activist has just died of COVID and his brother saying it was unnecessary. We see these reports all the time. At the same time, we have the mandate taking place. We have that legal issue. That's what we discussed earlier in the week, talking about the legal issues, talking about the pushback against the mandate. So, we'll get Dr. Sarfati's view as well about that in terms of his views on mandates and then specifically why he is pro vaccine. And if you have a question, if you have an issue, if you are concerned about the vaccine or against the vaccine, separated from the mandate issue, separated from the legality or lack thereof of the mandate issue, just the vaccine itself, Dr. Sarfati is very happy to take your questions.

He does not shy from controversy. All right, let's try again. Dr. Sarfati, you're there. Lost again. This is remarkable. Friends, we're not playing games here.

This was not the big setup. And Dr. Sarfati, if you're listening somehow and getting disconnected, our number is 866-348-7884. 866-348-7884. He's been on hold as we're getting ready to introduce the show up and looking at my board. So, we will sort this out and get to Dr. Sarfati. But on the one hand, you see these headlines and they're very concerning. They're gravely concerning and they can strike fear in your heart. Oh, no. If I don't get vaccinated, I'm going to die. Then you have others saying, if you are otherwise healthy and don't have any other health-related conditions, especially if you're younger, it's the last thing you need to worry about.

And why the fear and why the government crackdown and lockdown and shutdown and so on and so forth. So, there are a lot of questions people have. My big issue, personally, as someone who does not have a medical background, I'm Dr. Brown.

Yes, a PhD in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures. Yes, my doctoral dissertation was written on the Hebrew word for healing, but I've got a biblical background in the subject of healing, but not a medical background. And because I have spoken to people on both sides, scientists, doctors, highly educated people on both sides of the issue, and they have raised some pro-vaccine, some against, I don't have the ability to sort these things out. I don't have the time to devote hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours to really mastering the science and understanding what's involved and coming to an educated conclusion.

And I've seen persuasive arguments both ways, and they're persuasive to me because I don't have the ability to sort them out. Hence, my discouraging you from looking to me for guidance here, where I can give you guidance, I give it. Right, let us try. Number three, Dr. Sarfati, are you there?

Yes, I'm lucky, hopefully, God willing. All right, you are here, sir. Hey, tell you what, since we've taken a few minutes with me setting things up while we were waiting to get you on the phone, we've got five or six minutes before our first break. Why don't you just make your basic case now? Just put out your strongest pro-vaccine arguments. We'll unpack these. We'll raise questions.

Let me turn things straight over to you. Okay, well, thank you, Dr. Brown. Now, first of all, we've got to compare the vaccine, not with the Garden of Eden, but with the real world where we have a very dangerous virus. And the virus is killing about 2% of people who get sick will die from this virus.

And about 33% of the survivors will have long haul. They'll be ill for months with brain fog, fatigue, muscle ache, lost sense of smell. So it's a very serious illness. And it's not to be underestimated because this virus will infect the cell and force every infected cell to make a thousand new viruses. All these viruses have lots of RNA and they're covered with spike proteins.

And you see this process will be repeated. So second cycle, a thousand new cells infected and a million new viruses produced. And a peak infection will have about a thousand billion viruses in your system.

And it starts off in your lungs, which are right next to your heart and the major blood vessels. Now what the virus, the vaccine will do, the RNA vaccine does, it's injected into your shoulder muscle, far away from any major blood vessels. And the RNA is only a small part of the virus. It codes for the spike proteins, but it's a modified version that will only stay in the cell membrane. And it's not able to do any damage to other cells. So the cell produces the spike proteins and the immune system recognizes that and says, this is a foreign invader, I'm going to neutralize and I'm going to destroy that and keep a note of that.

So you've got cells called B cells, which will keep a memory of the spike protein. So if the virus invades, you've got your immune system ready to go to destroy the virus before it can multiply and cause you serious illness. So the vaccine is demonstrably successful in preventing very serious diseases and deaths. So now we see that 97% of hospital cases are unvaccinated as are about 95, 99.5% of deaths from the virus are unvaccinated people. And vaccinated people are far less infectious as well.

They're far less likely to get insulin sickness, but most importantly not their file is likely to die from the virus. So it really does work. It works both on theoretical ground, but now we've been tested on about 200 million people in America have been vaccinated very safely. So it's time to stop calling this thing experimental.

It's a well-known technology and it's been very well shown to be very safe and very effective unlike the virus, which is very dangerous. That should be a summary of the position and I can explain more when people ask me questions about it. All right, so let me start here and thanks for being so concise and clear in terms of laying things out. What are your views on the mandate, be it the extreme situation say in Australia or what President Biden is pushing for in America? What are your views on that? Well, I don't think the president as the head of executive branch has a right to make mandates that are nationwide. I think he's exceeding his authority in doing that. I think the Australian case is highly overreacted.

I come from Australia as you can probably tell. I think they've hardly overreacted. I think their measures are much worse than the disease in the sense they're locking down. They see one case in the whole country is locked down even regardless of whether you've been vaccinated or not.

So I think why bother getting vaccinated if you're going to be locked down regardless? I think Australia has been very counterproductive and quite draconian and then of course the inconsistencies where churches are shut down but casinos, abortion clinics and liquor stores, pot shops are all allowed to be open. So there's selective enforcement or church services are spreaders but then you allow these mass protests that occur with thousands of people. So why are church services being singled out for locking down?

There's something very inconsistent about that. See I'm not defending a lot of government mandates here. I'm just saying that the vaccine is a thousand times safer than catching the virus. That's my position. Got it and the reason I asked that was because immediately if they hear that you're pro-vaccine they might think you're pro-mandate. So I wanted to make sure people separated those issues and knew where you were coming from on that and as I've noticed you're often retweeting things I'm putting out in terms of moral and cultural issues. So we stand very much on similar ground there.

All right just quickly before our first break and then we'll expand things more and then we'll take calls and I've got a bunch of printed questions for you. When you mentioned you said very safe at least a couple of times what about all the accounts of young people and again I'm simply raising questions not trying to define the position but lots of young people, teenagers who are having heart issues afterwards, myocarditis or whatever it is would they say that's very safe? Well yes because first of all you've got to compare with a total number of people being vaccinated. When you see here thousands of cases getting certain conditions this is out of a hundred million people being vaccinated so you've got the case which is about 0.005 percent of cases. Now specifically to the myocarditis issue once again the virus is far more likely to produce myocarditis and blood clots and also much more seriously. I mean I'm not saying any sort of myocarditis is not serious but the vaccine is both less likely and less severe form of myocarditis than the viruses.

So if you want to prevent myocarditis the best way is in fact to get the vaccine and not catch the virus. Got it all right stay right here I appreciate the condensed answers for our radio time here. If you'd like to raise a question to Dr Sarfati if you feel you want to challenge his position or you just honestly have questions 866-348-7884. It's the line of fire with your host Dr Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution here again is Dr Michael Brown.

Hey friends my guest today Dr Jonathan Sarfati young earth creationist biblical scholar you can go to creation.com to read his writings and those of his team and he's also a PhD in chemistry 866-34-TRUTH our phone lines are already jammed and I want to get to as many calls as I can for our guest. Dr Sarfati let me start here with a question that was sent in to me in March of 2021 CDC found that 78 percent of people hospitalized for COVID were overweight or obese. In 2020 the CDC found that most people dying from COVID had at least one pre-existing condition.

Want to focus on general health exercising healthy eating etc. instead of mass distribution of a vaccine. What's your response to that sir? Well okay so are we supposed to let obese or diabetic or hypertensive people die in the meantime these conditions are not going to be fixed overnight and meanwhile we have a vaccine that's very safe and that will actually protect these guys from from the disease. Now you see an obese person okay it's unhealthy I agree with that but they could be expected to live for decades with that condition were it not for a virus that will knock them over saying with diabetics they're managing their condition with insulin hypertensive with the blood pressure medication and possibly diet as well but while this is going on they have to be protected right now because of the virus right now that could kill them or make them very very ill. All right would you agree though that that the medical profession or scientific whoever government should be encouraging larger health issues in general in other words that that yeah go ahead but I think they are in any way I think you'll find most doctors would actually like the people to get onto a healthy weight they'll weigh you they take your blood pressure all the time they will hopefully warn you if you've got too high of blood sugar blood sugar so you're diabetic so they I think they are actually doing that anyway but what do you do in the meantime obesity can't be cured overnight the diabetes is not curable it's only manageable often essential hypertension is only manageable so what do we do to protect these guys in the meantime yeah of course right that's point well take it of course type 2 diabetes can often be reversed with with a radical lifestyle change but right type 1 of course can't be but it so then the argument the follow-up argument would be okay well then why not push for vaccination for the for the people who are higher risk the elderly and those with other conditions the obese the diabetic etc as opposed to pushing to vaccinate everybody when the vast majority of people dying are in those other categories well you'd be surprised about how many people who are not in those categories are dying and also sometimes people don't know they are in their categories a lot of people who have hot diabetes and hypertension without even knowing it I mean my eyes my optometrist even said he has seen very diabetic people by looking at their eyes and seeing their blood vessels and they didn't know that they were severely diabetic so you wonder how many other people are like that and they'd be very vulnerable and after all people um governments have been prioritizing getting vaccines into the elderly and the vulnerable people first so that's actually being done already but then we know of some athletic people are also getting very very sick from this this virus a friend of mine has a nose another woman who's got a teenage daughter who's a track athlete but still is suffering from the long covert she's got the illness and still can't shake it off so it is affecting so-called healthy people now that we've seen kids you know being infected by it all right let's uh let's go to some calls and again friends my position here is to raise questions just as I did for Dr. Schallenberger who was against the vaccines or raised serious concerns about them if you're looking to me to friends to to be the one that's going to present the amazing anti-vax position I'm simply here to be a neutral moderator and and to give to give everyone the opportunity to hear from Dr. Sarfati to raise their questions so let's let's start with some calls we go to David in Raleigh North Carolina what's your question for Dr. Sarfati yeah thank you for taking my call Dr. Brown my question is about the vaccines themselves is there one any more effective than the other and um does he have any uh guidance for someone not sure what which one to get got it all right go ahead sir okay I'd say the vaccine to get is whatever is available in your area I don't think I'd want to wait for another vaccine to be available I get whatever is available now I have got the Moderna shot myself I got that over four months ago that's about the RNA vaccine the Pfizer vaccine also is a very effective one but even the Johnson and Johnson one that's pretty effective and you only need one dose I think any of the major ones available I'd take them all right in in that regard Dr. Sarfati is is there any connection with any of the vaccines to aborted fetuses in the research and the development is that for some all none what's your take on that well okay I mean we're talking about a baby who was aborted in Holland uh 50 years ago uh we're not sure there's abortions or a miscarriage on because abortion was illegal in the Netherlands uh in 1973 another thing is you know aborted baby tissue is in any of the vaccines what we've got is a fetal cell line now I don't approve abortion totally pro-life I don't support abortion even for rape or inset exceptions all right so I'm 100% pro-life now the point is um a lot of the leading ethicists in the world whether it's Catholic or the Baptist or Reform perspective they say that you're it's a pro-life position to use the vaccine even if they have a connection to this remote abortion 50 years ago because you're not encouraging more abortions for vaccines and you're not going to bring the baby back if you refuse the vaccine okay so like for instance if you take an organ from a murder victim I don't think you're doing anything wrong as long as you weren't involved in the murder okay um I think you can take it without condoning the murder in terms of hydroxychloroquine has connection to the Nazis it was developed in the chloroquine was developed in Dachau with experiments on prisoners forcibly infected with malaria and it was made by IG Farben that made the zuclon bay cyanide tablets used for genocide in the Holocaust so if you want to go down that line you really not should not take hydroxychloroquine either okay got it all right but the thing is the RNA vaccines were not made using these there's an initial test using these these cell lines but RNA vaccines don't need any cells or manufacturers of the the connection stopped at the test now we've got the test and it's passed there's no more need for any testing with RNA vaccines and um by the way most of your medicine cabinet was actually tested on the same uh people cell line as the RNA vaccines were so you need to try your whole medicine cabinet if you want to argue down those lines and be consistent about it all right let's uh let's take another call from Emily in California Maryland welcome to the line of fire thanks so much um that was a really good point you just made because my question was related to um you know the the notion that these were made from aborted fetus cells i had a kind of a two-part question initially but like the flu vaccines that um use i guess dead or dormant flu virus um you know is there any any relation to that being um you know using aborted fetus cells as well so like in the future if they come up with a different method not using the mrna um and you know are able to inject people with a dormant or dead covid virus in the future is that at all linked to aborted fetus cells well no see chicken the traditional flu shot was actually cultured on chicken embryo so there's appropriate flu shots to poke the ethical there's no connection whatsoever with the with the uh of all the baby cell lines and the modern flu shots are made with um a dog um embryonic dog kidney cells so again no connection with unborn babies and things like the d-tap i mean none of the bacterial disease vaccines have any connection uh with the borders people on well like then some viral vaccines um that have that connection like mmr but the new rna vaccines don't need to be have any connection anymore we know the process works uh and rna isn't made using cells of inputs you have a polymerase reaction what's made in a chemistry lab it's about how rna so i think rna vaccines are the future for totally ethical vaccines which will also be extremely effective all right emily thanks for the question uh dr sarafati um let me read another question that was that was sent in um why are there so many pro vaccine scientists worried that this set of particular vaccines is dangerous what would they have to gain in coming out in opposition to these vaccines many are concerned about the new technology and the rushed development well the technology isn't as new as you think the rna vaccine technology has been worked on for some times in fact they're very promising new uh flu vaccine which should be universally wouldn't have to keep on having a booster every year uh so this has been going on for some years now and even clinical human trials have been animal trials with these rna flu vaccines and also clinical human trials began but then the pandemic hit so this technology was basically redirected towards the corona uh spike protein so it's actually not as new as you think and as far as rushing i think president trump deserves praise for operation warp speed which cuts the red tape and not the safety but the red tape that usually delays life-saving medicines for years i mean there's a history in this country of light of people thousands hundreds of thousands of people dying while we wait for the fca bureaucrats to approve a life-saving medicine like beta blockers for secondary heart attacks aspirin to prevent blood clots the fca held it up for years and people died while waiting so that there is a cost to delaying and and the operation warp speed uh chops all that red tape out so we can get a vaccine quickly and stop people dying about 650 americans have died of this disease already so how many more hundreds of thousands of deaths are acceptable while we wait for a the usual long-winded approval procedure all right so tell you what we come back we've got a short break i just want to revisit the question of in that light why do you think that scientists and others doctors who are pro-vaccine are still raising concerns in other words what what would they have to gain from this it almost discredits them in these days and by the way philosophically i was thrilled that things went through so quickly in terms of passing the red tape and i was rooting for president trump then to get it right just medically i don't have the expertise to comment either way all right friends everybody on hold we will do our best to get to every single call stay right here hey friends this is dr michael brown you know we've been on the air 13 years daily five days a week we've never worked with a sponsor until now meet dr mark stangler my personal friend a lover of jesus voted doctor of the decade and his health supplements are second to none when you go to vitaminmission.com you'll see a special code to put in you get 10 off your orders and a donation is made to our ministry with each order vitaminmission.com this is carter conlon psalm 56 and verse 3 says these words whenever i am afraid i will trust in you you know there's so much to be afraid of today the list is long but you and i both know what it is now you're not a deficient person because you struggle with fear even the great apostle paul wrote of a time in his own life when he said we were troubled on every side outside were conflicts inside were fears however paul stayed close to god in prayer and he trusted the promises of god which he believed could not fail and he was right he made it through and you will make it through your time of fear as well listen to me very carefully today you will make it through you will not be overpowered this is carter conlon remember my brother my sister it's time to pray it's the line of fire with your host dr michael brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-truth here again is dr michael brown welcome friends to the line of fire the beginning of this year i did an interview with dr frank schallenberger who raised his serious questions against the vaccines the efficacy or the wisdom of them or long-term side effects other issues he had serious concerns we let him share those concerns and and in fact devoted the whole broadcast to that it was a pre-recorded broadcast so we didn't even have calls to respond to i raise questions as i knew to raise today we have on dr jonathan sarfati this is only the second show where we're giving different positions on the vaccine because i've made clear i don't have the the expertise to give a comment worth your time all right where i can weigh in on subjects i do day and night where i where i can't especially life and death issues i'm not going to so dr sarfati young earth creationist phd in chemistry and a supportive proponent of the vaccines but with serious concerns about the mandates so don't confuse the mandates with the vaccines themselves so dr sarfati just some pushback as i'm looking at comments to a previous question that i had raised right before the break one the the pro vaccine scientists or doctors who say hey we're all for vaccines but we just have concerns about this what why would they be doing this in other words it's almost discrediting them in the process and then the other is when you mention mri and the i'm just mispronouncing it the um the current vaccine technology has been used it's it's not as rushed as we think some are saying yeah but it's only been used recently in humans and and there have been dangers with animals so back to you well in fact the animal trials show that the the rna flu vaccine was extremely safe for for mice and other animals and very effective at preventing the the flu so it actually has been proven safe but also the rna vaccine did have clinical trials a year ago and there was no shortage of volunteers the fungus the pandemic was raised and so we had about over 70 000 volunteers in a properly controlled clinical style a trial a year ago so um the vaccines have already been administered so if there were there are lots of serious side effects we would have seen them by now by the very nature of vaccines and now we've got some 200 million americans have been vaccinated mostly by these rna vaccines so if it was really unsafe where are all the the millions of this with if it was one percent unsafe we'd see two million deaths of this vaccine by now but we're not we've we've seen in the range of a few thousand reported deaths not proven deaths but a few thousand reported deaths and that's about 0.005 percent of the number of people vaccinated i think it's time to stop all of this experimental all right um question posted here the mrna vaccine use a pelligated lipid nanoparticle coding that has been shown to cause autoimmune diseases regardless of the safety of the mrn a tech itself what other dangers are posed by the vaccine ingredients themselves well okay but again if it was as dangerous as you think then it would have been shown up from the clinical trials as well as the 200 million people vaccinated and then i also want to say compared to what because the fire everything here from the vaccine you should hear a thousand times more from the virus the virus can cause autoimmune reaction that's one of the big problems with it because the cause of the immune system to overreact to what's called a cytokine storm and often that's the actual immediate cause of death but it's called the cytokine storm is caused by the virus it's the overreaction of the immune system that's actually because that's actually very dangerous so you're very far more about the virus than anything about the vaccine because the vaccine doesn't reproduce um the ingredients are so unstable if they're not processed your body will be getting rid of them very very quickly in a few weeks now viruses can linger in your system for a long time because you know if you've had chicken pox you could have shingles um decades later because the virus has been hiding in your nerve cells for decades and it flares up and shingles the fact that all the space of the vaccine in a few uh weeks is going to be your immune system memory nothing else is going to be remaining got it and and the the question of there could be long-term developments that we simply don't know about yet so why in the world would you want to vaccinate say healthy 15 year olds or 20 year olds or you know people that are so far you know when we're talking percentages right like i could say well i heard about somebody that burned in their car when the seat belt wouldn't come out and they crashed and you say yeah but for everyone saved by seat belts the numbers so that's the argument you're making you know the comparison but why why why encourage everyone to get vaccinated if there might be some other issues why not just encourage the you know okay because percentages it seems that those who are younger or healthy those cases are are infinitesimally smaller than the others you know so that's a common argument that's raised okay basically as christians not just thinking about ourselves we should be as feeding other people as higher than ourselves now um the the the vaccine is playing to be 95 percent effective i think it's actually more than that but okay supposing it's 95 effective that means five people it's not going to work on uh that means to protect those people who are immunocompromised or whatever you need to stop the virus getting to these people which means that other people should be vaccinated so they provide a protective wall so the virus doesn't get through to these vulnerable people so you you're doing it not just for yourself but you're doing it for other people who are around you got it that's why uh that's a good reason to be protected like i would not want to be responsible for introducing the virus to my parents who are in their 80s got it and and by the way i i i'm tempted you know because i've heard so many questions and issues have come up my wife and i have talked to those who've talked i i i'm guilty right now of starting to raise a lot of things that are in my head but i want to give place to others so let me let me not respond with my follow-up questions and go back to the phone so uh ryan in daton ohio you're on with dr sarfati go ahead please thank you for uh taking my call um so my question is is uh i had i had read about the vaccines that their effectiveness their efficacy rate is in the high 90s mid to high 90s um but what raised the question to me was um what what it was effective at and it said it was effective at the prevention all right are you there it sounds like we just lost ryan hope we didn't just lose our whole connection there uh dr sarfati you're still there i'm still here yes okay the thing is even if it doesn't always protect against infection it will protect against severe infection to the point of hospitalization and there's a matter of the flu shot the flu shot was actually far less effective than the these uh corona vaccines because the flu that people would often have a breakthrough infection but very rarely would they get hospitalized or die from it so but the the but the the current bacteria are much more effective than the flu vaccine that we've been having um for years so is is there is there a scenario and again i'm speaking with medical ignorance here where there are no immediate signs of danger but long term something could theoretically develop or something has changed in the dna i mean that's a common concern okay the thing is um the the genetic system works it goes dna to rna to proteins it doesn't go rna to dna and see what the rna vaccine goes directly to protein it's made by a machine in yourself or the ribosome and it makes the spike proteins your genes are in your dna inside your nucleus and the rna vaccine doesn't get to your nucleus so there's no way it's going to affect your your dna and in fact if this was a thing again you see you're at a thousand times more from the virus than from the vaccine got it a long-term side effect that is more of an issue if you have long-term usage you see we worry about side of long-term side effects from drugs because you're taking them every day and little things can build up over time or the body can develop tolerance or dependency on it it's not really such an issue for a one-off or two-off vaccine it's really a different it's apples and oranges in a big way and also do we really know all the long-term effects of the virus i think we know a lot of that are short term and medium term which are very bad but i think we're still not uh finished with it i think it's all going to be some longer term effect years to come from from getting a virus right it's not going to be the issue from the from the banking what if it does what those chickpox vaccines the virus does hides dormant for a while then plans up again in a few decades all right yeah and again friends these are i encourage you to listen to the arguments to to do research and to not just dismiss something out of hand this is too big an issue to do that on either side uh i think we reconnect it with ryan so the end of your question sir go ahead i'm sorry i apologize about that um so my question real quick was that um what i had read was the vaccine was in the high 90s mid to high 90s for efficacy but what raised my question was it said it was it was 95 or plus uh percentage effective at preventing systematic covid-19 so my question is um are i'm assuming you're still able to contract covid which would make it you know asymptomatic if you did get it but my question would be um can you still spread it even if you are asymptomatic and you've been vaccinated well again just because your body's killing the virus now you're just trained to kill the virus even if you get the virus colonizing the nasal passages now there have been some tests which claim that the vaccinated people have as much virus in their nose as as the unvaccinated but then uh a few measure that over a few days and the vaccinated people the antibodies are killing the germs in their nose really quickly so the viral load goes right down really quickly for vaccinated people but lingers in the unvaccinated so definitely um um unvaccinated people are far more likely to spread the disease than the vaccinated people are so it is very good at preventing infection and um and spreading all right let's go to david in israel sir we can at least get your question in we'll see if director sarfati has time to respond before or after the break go ahead sir hi um i'm not an anti-vaxxer i have reservations regarding efficacy of this vaccine and i have two four questions first is efficacy another one there are there are doctors and dr brown had a doctor who said that as a guest who said there are protocols to treat this disease as it is now more known so living in israel the government here had a privilege to execute this plan of vaccinating people and israel became the highly vaccinated country now we are in a third wave and being highly vaccinated the wave is overwhelming many people dying up to 50 are vaccinated so it's like 45 percent and this data is available on the website of health ministry it's it's not some uh theory you can access this in hebrew though so my question is according to prime minister bennett who said that the vaccinated double jab people are the high risk what do you say to that and a second question was to do with the treatment of um the covid in general because then all right david tell you what stay right there uh let's get a response to your first question from dr serfato and we come back others on hold andy shawn terry going to try to get to you and i've got a follow-up that's been sent in about treatment as well be right back thank you john elmore had made a complete mess of his life and in his lowest moment he cried out to god and i thought my life was over and god is like no give me your divorce give me your alcoholism give me it all we'll hear about the path to freedom from addiction this week on family life today with dave and ann wilson it's the line of fire with your host activist author international speaker and theologian dr michael brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling eight six six three four true here again is dr michael brown all right friends on a totally separate note i encourage you to go to vitaminmission.com this is not talking about preventing covid this is a totally separate note i encourage you to check out vitaminmission.com for healthy life supplements i've been taking for years and we're now in partnership with dr stengler and his company so check it out i think you'll be blessed with what you get there vitaminmission.com oh about a little less than 30 minutes from now so 4 15 eastern time i'm going to be back on youtube just for our weekly exclusive youtube chat so i'm not the one to send covid questions to but we'll be talking about all kinds of other things that ask dr brown on youtube uh all right so dr sarafati back to you that the data from israel does say that it's been a highly vaccinated country and now many of the cases of sickness disease even death are with people who've been fully vaccinated so how do you respond to david's concern in israel okay there are a couple there are two main statistical fallacies that people use uh with this israeli dancer one is called the base trait fallacy to give you an example um supposing there are 20 percent of um car accidents are caused by drunk drivers okay eighty percent are caused by sober drivers therefore it's four times safer to drive drunk than to drive sober now that's a fallacy right and the reason is because you've got far fewer drunk drivers than sober drivers therefore the percentage of of accidents among drunk drivers is much higher than the percentage of accidents among sober drivers you're a much lower baseline for the drunk driving and this is what you're doing with the israel data because you've got um five times or so four or five times more people vaccinated than unvaccinated you've got to scale the uh the death according to the total numbers of both the vaccinated and back then you're going to do a number of uh hospital cases that are vaccinated divided by the total number of vaccinated people and into the same uh total number of hospital cases among unvaccinated people divided by total number of unvaccinated people so we're going to take that go into account to find that still far safer to be vaccinated than to be unvaccinated the other issue is called simpson's paradox now what to do there is if you aggregate the data and have a look noting it one thing you can get a misleading impression when the other variables like the old means you're both more susceptible to the virus but also more likely to be vaccinated so what they found when they they separated the israel data according to age groups when you separate the age groups out you find in every age group the vaccine is extremely effective at preventing hospitalization and death but when you aggregate the old and young it looks like you've got a lot of um vaccinated people getting ill but it's because most of those people are old and therefore more intrinsically vulnerable to be the to the virus as well as being more likely to be vaccinated so at every age group uh the vaccine efficiency is close to 90 but when you aggregate them you get this paradox where it looks like the vaccine's not as effective as it really is the simpson's paradox is what you call that all right and david the second part of your question was it was to do with treatment i remember there was a guest on your show a doctor who back in january i think it was that he said he was cautious about the efficacy of this vaccine he said there is enough knowledge to treat this disease we know more now than a year ago and he proposed that he practiced and he said we have a protocol to deal with this now even when president trump got sick there was israeli doctor zlenko who came up with protocol and he was out of the hospital like within a week and there is a vermectin case and other things so my question is are there ways of treating it right and uh yeah david uh of of course dr sarfati actually had a public dialogue video dialogue with dr zlenko so we can uh you can look for that online let me just add in dr sarfati peer-reviewed study in the american journal of therapeutics review of the emerging evidence demonstrating the efficacy of vermectin in the prophylaxis and treatment of covid 19 shows data from many countries that the implementation of vermectin in the treatment schedule for patients sick with covid reduce the mortality by significant percentages so putting vaccines aside in other words not not not negating your view on that what about these cures others say hey it's proven dr zlenko said that with his treatment we could have saved uh five out of every six deaths in america so a half million out of six hundred thousand what's your take on that well i'll tell you i think dr zlenko study was it was very few i mean people think oh the the vaccines experimental was 70 000 in the trials and yet we should take dr zlenko's trial of 143 people and that's proof i think there's a bit of a double standard there and other studies seem to show very little either no evidence or in fact that a combination of hydroxy plus this remycin can actually be harmful so that if you look at all the studies have been that have been uh published um these things are not as helpful as people might think they are um because these things also have side effects these drugs these uh drugs by the way were also tested on the the same fetal lines that people are complaining about but these um rna vaccines so uh go figure aren't there other studies though that have been done in other words not just dr zlenko's uh trial sample but other studies that have been done around the world that would confirm his views but there are other studies that have actually that show that there isn't any effect but i think it's in the dialogue i uh took his his his study at face value to well let's assume you're right about uh the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine and let's assume that you're right about how dangerous this virus is it's simple mathematics to show that the vaccine is still many times safer than catching with disease and treating with either hydroxy or uh ivermectin because one study on ivermectin said it might reduce the mortality to 1.4 okay the vaccine's mortality is at 0.005 so even the best case scenario for these drugs show that nowhere near as safe as actually preventing the disease in the first place all right yeah tell you what tell you what let's let's just jump in with uh with another call in limited time we have and i i cannot volunteer you to do this all right i just want to let you know that probably in the days ahead we're going to have a lot of discussion on youtube and a lot of people are going to be weighing in against your position i will send you that link privately what you do with it is your business you've been very gracious to respond to people on twitter but it gets a lot heavier on youtube so i'm going to let you know that's there if you have time to weigh in great because i know you don't want controversy but there's no expectation of that all right let's go to one one more caller uh andy in trenton new jersey what's your question for dr sarfati yeah i think the the question doctor is the question of trust um uh you know people both sides can come up with anecdotes for example i can give you an anecdote that my name my neighbor dropped dead after a vaccine um and and that uh that that uh my best friend um and his father were both hospitalized after a vaccine and of course the response is is anecdotal but it still remains the fact that there's scientists who disagree with you there's a nobel prize winner who disagrees with you there's uh there's the inventor of the mrna vaccine disagrees with you there's the former chief scientist that pizer a former chief scientist that pizer disagrees with you they all have concerns serious concerns about the vaccine but the thing is that would give your argument more credibility would be if you at least gave some of these counter arguments credence instead of just dismissing them all like a propagandist because um let me just let me just finish yeah johnson just just hang on let let andy finish real quick and then yeah go ahead you'll have time to respond let me finish it's associated with all these questions that i have and concerns for my family and the stories i have about chronic fatigue syndrome being caused by vaccines autism which didn't exist 34 years ago being caused by vaccines is an issue of trust especially when when you have johnson and johnson's baby powder turning out that that is very dangerous and the factor means that you have no data and tell you what yeah all right hang on just to be fair i want you to get your your concerns out which you did eloquently in the time you had and we've only got listen two minutes so dr surfati you get the last word in and then folks continue the conversation on youtube go ahead sir well okay i mean a lot of questions there but again you can what compared to what and that's what i'm saying these people are saying these things about the vaccine but okay compare it to the virus with a huge death toll it's huge call of long covid many people losing their lives because of i've known some people myself who are only under 40 losing their lives because of this thing after 20 plus days in the hospital okay so but the thing is that's why we actually look at the data overall not just single anecdotes and as far as far as trust is concerned i mean i'm not a leftist or a liberal okay why would you not trust what i have to say um in fact president trump recently told a large crowd in alabama get the vaccine i did he is what he said okay to a large crowd um so why not trust the former president uh um just get the vaccine and i've actually had the vaccine myself i practice what i preach do you think there's yeah do you think there's any concern as i'm a polemicist as are you in terms of we're in controversy day and night is there any danger of responding as a polemicist rather than as a family doctor and that might alienate some people well okay i mean it depends on what we're i've actually responded non-polemic to people who are asking genuine questions sometimes polemically when people are saying things which are demonstrably untrue and actually hope and possibly misleading other people into not getting this very important um life-saving vaccine but i've actually uh turned quite a people uh quite a lot of vaccine headed on people around into having their kids vaccinated and look i i know what motivates you is love for god and love for people you're that i'm convinced of otherwise we wouldn't be talking hey amazingly we're we're out of time but this yeah it's an hour and it's gone by like this so listen we can always do a part two if you're up for it i'm sure our callers and viewers will be up for it but listen to this interview go back to the interview at the beginning of the year dig into the data and make informed decisions these are life and death matters dr sarfati thank you so much for joining us another program powered by the truth network another program powered by the truth network