The Counting Crows of Baseball

He's amused Cam Newton. He's been insulted by Charles Barkley. When some idiot in the press asked him, if you know what you know now, would you schedule this game? He's interviewed Matthew McConaughey. And he's taken on Big Blue Nation.

He's just completely taken the wind out of my sandwich. It's time for The Drive with Josh Grant. Welcome to a Wednesday Drive WSJS News Talk Sports For The Triad, where a day after finishing up their first round of interviews, Carolina Panthers have refined their coaching search today and narrowed down their list. Amid all the flair, all the smokescreens, all the misdirections that we've seen publicly, it was always going to come down to Steve Wilks and Frank Reich.

That's where things are. In addition to Kellen Moore, who remained in Charlotte an extra day after meeting with Panthers brass for the first time yesterday, both Wilks and Reich reportedly interviewed for a second time today. And according to Albert Breer of Sports Illustrated, David Tepper has, quote, pivoted to focusing on candidates with head coaching experience, close quote, aka these two men.

And again, this shouldn't be a surprise. Head coaching experience was clearly important to Tepper all along. If you count his conversation with Jim Harbaugh, which was documented by both folks on the Michigan side and on the NFL side, half the coaches that Tepper spoke to, former NFL head coaches. Shane Steichen, he's an interesting candidate. He's the one assistant I'd look at. And if Carolina hired, I probably wouldn't have any issues with it. The Eagles offensive coordinator. But there's still a lot of risk attached to hiring a first time head coach.

What's your staff going to look like? How are you going to handle given situation? When so many of the other guys have documented proof, oh, I've been in this situation and this is how I handled it versus this is how I will handle it.

You can see that distinction. Plus, David Tepper doesn't really strike me as the most patient guy. And there's no guarantee you'd be able to get Shane Steichen. Other teams are interested in him as well. And you can't talk to him until next Monday at the earliest, per NFL rules, for coordinators that are currently coaching in the championship games.

And if you wait, who knows? You might lose out on Frank Reich, who right now is also being considered by the Arizona Cardinals based on some of the reports. You might be thinking, Josh, why is it narrowed down to those two? Doesn't Sean Payton have head coaching experience? Yes, but he was a long shot from the beginning. When you consider it's a first round draft pick, you're going to have to attach to bringing him in. Obviously, you'll have to give personnel decisions to him. That's a non-starter for a coach of his stature, but a first round pick being attached to it too. One of the great appeals to the Carolina Panthers job is that you can win right now. That's what Steve Wilks proved, that you could go six and six without Christian McCaffrey with the team that's not really trying to win right now.

The appeal is you can win right now. Look at the state of the NFC South, and you're going to give a first round pick to a division rival? That doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense. Plus, there's no evidence that Payton was quote all in on Carolina like we saw a week ago.

There's no evidence of that. Why else would he be interviewing with Houston and Arizona and Denver if he was quote all in on the Carolina Panthers? And if I'm giving up a first round draft pick and all of this power to Sean Payton to come in, oh he better be all in on my organization, and there's no evidence that that's the case. The problem is you're likely not going to be able to hire both Wilks and Reich.

That would be the most approved upon, the most approved of scenario, I should say. If you get Frank Reich to be the offensive coordinator, pay him like he's a head coach. David Tepper has that type of cash. There's no salary cap on what you can spend on coaches. We still don't know what he paid Joe Brady after all a few years ago. You have to have Wilks be the head coach.

It can't be the other way around after the dynamic of this year and players in the locker room advocating for Wilks to be the guy. Frank Reich has ties to the area. It's not just that he was a quarterback here a million years ago. No, his daughter works for the Carolina Panthers.

His brother is the head coach of Wingate right down the road. So there are some incentives here, but Reich would probably have to settle. There are probably better offensive coordinator jobs open than the Carolina Panthers' OC job.

Look at the one in Los Angeles to potentially coach Justin Herbert, and there are a few others that are open as well. Frank Reich was my prediction from the beginning of this. It would be underwhelming to me if he was the choice. I wouldn't hate it.

It would be underwhelming. I would prefer Steve Wilks to be the guy, but I don't think this past weekend did Steve Wilks any favors. I think when Sean McDermott lost out and you see defensive coaches falling out and all you have in the playoffs at this point are offensive-minded guys, owners like David Tepper are going to pay close attention to that. And Frank Reich at the end is an offensive-minded coach. There's a reason why.

Seven of the nine candidates interviewed are offensive-minded guys. I think in the end, it's going to be Frank Reich, not Steve Wilks. It won't be both. That's where we're going to end up.

But right now, as the search is refined, it goes back to the place where it's always been. Frank Reich or Steve Wilks. On Twitter, at WSJS radio if you want in, 336-777-1600 is the phone number. However, wherever you're listening, certainly appreciate that. WD, how concerned were you for the Tar Heels last night? Oddly, not that concerned.

What? I mean, listen, I was one in four on the road and this wasn't the Pittsburgh game all over. Oh, I forgot you're a Carolina fan, so you're just eternally optimistic. I mean, I'm eternally optimistic, regardless of that.

Well, last night was a perfect example why I wouldn't fault you if you were. Like Carolina fans, all they know is the best case scenario turning out for them. Oh yeah, we're gonna miss a free throw and then their players just gonna give it right to Pete Nance who lays it in. That's the Carolina experience if I've ever seen it. I just had a feeling, I'm like, it's too close for comfort, I'll give you that. But I'm like, they'll probably pull it out. That's the Carolina experience.

I suppose. Other fans are just terrified of when the terrible thing is going to happen to them. Carolina fans are like, oh yeah, of course that Joe Gerard's gonna throw it right back into Pete Nance after he misses a free throw for the tying layup.

Yeah, it's gonna happen. But getting to that game, Will Dalton, the executive producer of the show, is a Carolina fan. Last night at Syracuse, it was not pretty.

Heck, Armando Bacot said they were lucky to win. But that's a win the Tar Heels should be proud of because that's a game that they likely don't even win three weeks ago. I brought up Pittsburgh.

One and four on the road going into this. And last night looked like the pit game all over again. Carolina getting beat one-on-one. Carolina seeing the lead slip away in the second half. But to their credit, they figured it out and they drew on the experiences that they've had in previous close games and executed in the end.

That's what Hubert Davis was talking about after the game and here he was. We've been in tight situations before. So that's one of the luxuries and the beauty of this team is that we've been in situations like this before. So, you know, making a shot with 55 seconds to go and down by two, that's so much time, so much stuff can happen. A lot did happen. And so having that type of experience and being in those situations allow you to be in the moment and calm and be able to execute.

Yeah. And they executed down the stretch. Give credit. The sign of a great player is what they can contribute to their team when their number one asset or their number one skill set has been taken away or isn't quite working on a given night. In other words, if you're a scorer and you're not scoring, how else are you going to help the team? RJ Davis found ways to contribute other than scoring. Like last night was the first time really this year that he had scored in single digits.

Nothing was falling for him. So what does he do? Takes a charge in the final five minutes. And then in the final minute, the final 30 seconds, he's the one that takes the elbow up high from Judah Mintz, taking the charge. Those were two big defensive plays. And that is why he's one of the key pieces of this team.

This is Armando Bacot and RJ Davis's team. Not Caleb Love's. He's still an ancillary piece as far as I'm concerned. Important?

Sure. But the heart of this team is four and five. Pete Nance took a big step last night. They need somebody outside of those three guys who could score for them. And this is the first time since returning from the back that he scored at the double figures.

And not only that, he scored 21 points and had those plays late in the game. So they're in a really good spot. Sure, they might have caught some breaks, but now they're off for a week.

You could do a little bit of self-scouting. The Duke game is next Saturday, 10 days from now. Their next game is against, I think, Pittsburgh in a week. It's a good spot for Carolina to be in. They've won four in a row.

That's a win they should be proud of. 3-3-6-7-7-7-1-600. Darren Vaught's going to join us later on this hour in studio. B-dot, six-man Carolina basketball, going to be in studio later on in the show.

Just a loaded show. Let's get to Ed in Winston-Salem, who once in on the Tar Heels win last night. Ed, did you expect that to happen, or were you relieved that Carolina won?

I was relieved. That was really an exciting ball game. And like they said, they were fortunate. They got the breaks and they made the plays.

And I totally agree. Maybe two or three weeks ago, I don't think they would have won that game. But getting to the way their offense attacked that zone, I was very happy with that. They didn't rush their outside shots. They didn't shoot a great percentage, but they hit them when they needed to. They attacked from the baseline and they attacked in the middle and from the free throw line. But on defense, you're right. They've got to clean up their defense.

It wasn't that good. It was very similar, like you said, to the Pittsburgh game. They were beating them bad, especially RJ was getting beat bad by that freshman mince off the bounce.

But let me bring something to your attention and see if I'm being too picky here. Carolina has lost six games. Three of those losses were the top 10 teams. And the other team, Iowa State, is number 11 right now since they beat K-State last night. And hopefully if they beat Missouri Saturday, they'll probably jump in. So that's four teams in the top 10. Virginia Tech beat them.

They were in the top 25 for a couple weeks. And then Pittsburgh's not a bad team. Not a bad loss.

It's on the road. That's a quad one game. Yeah. And those six losses were just by a total of 36 points. Total, you know, an average of six points. So right now, and hopefully it doesn't come in these last 10 games, they haven't had, you know, four, five, 20-point blowout. But my question is, do you think they deserve to be in the top 25? If you look at some of these other teams ranked in front of them and the conferences and the team that they played, I just don't understand it. Oh, I understand it. It's blatant disrespect for the ACC that you're seeing with Ken Palm and you're seeing it a lot of different places. But we can discuss that at a later point.

To answer your question, though, Ed and I appreciate the call. They should be ranked in the top 25. Frankly, I was surprised they weren't after beating NC State last week. And since they don't have a game this weekend, I think North Carolina definitely should be ranked in the top 25 next week. In terms of the losses, you're right.

This is progress from last year. Hubert Davis, when things went badly, particularly on the road, they would get rolled in games. They'd lose by 22 to Wake. They'd lose by 28 to Miami. They'd get blown out by close to 30 against Kentucky. So the point you bring up is a good one that you've lost six games and those six margins were only decided by 36 points combined. It is progress. This Carolina team is better than last year's team, which should have Tar Heel fans believing, oh, yeah, we can win a national championship. And nobody's here to say that they can't. But it still will probably require them turning on something and catching some breaks like they caught in the month of March last year. Hopefully they will have similar breaks with the bracket that allow for them to do so.

Cough, cough, like playing St. Peter's in the early days. It's The Drive with Josh Graham. That's Bronson.

That's the Bronson. Good. Sorry.

Jumped on your program here. Darren Bot is in here. And here's how I know Darren Bot's a huge baseball nerd.

He knows for sure. Oh, that's not Stone Temple Pilots. That's Bronson. Who famously performed this song plus Stone Temple Pilots. It's their song. Excuse me. That is one Hall of Fame vote recipient Bronson Arroyo covering Stone Temple Pilots.

Outstanding. We need to bring back the Nickelback segment that we used to do. Because Bronson Arroyo, he was he was all Nickelback. He was. Remember, we did an all Nickelback's team. He was our starting pitcher.

He was Marcus Giles was at second base. And if you don't know what we're talking about, it's someone whose success was close ended in the decade, the 2000s, kind of like Nickelback that had all those great hits. But it was close ended in that decade. And I think we figured out who that might be for the 2010s. And now that we're three decades into the 2020s now, maybe three years, this might be 2000.

What did I say? Decades. Sorry. Three years.

That's impossible. Yes. We're three years into the 2020s. Maybe it's time to start exploring doing the Imagine Dragons of 2010s, because isn't that the perfect example of a band whose success was close ended to that decade? The Imagine Dragons were the Nickelbacks of the 2010s. I think that's true.

Now, while we're doing this production meeting live on on the air, I do have a suggestion. The point of the bit is nostalgia. That's right. Why don't we go back? Let's do the 90s. Oh, now. Who is the Nickelback of the 1990s? Dave Matthews Band. No, too prominent now. Pearl Jam.

Matchbox 20. Wow. We need to think on this a little bit longer. We'll workshop it.

We'll workshop it. Might be something there. 90s bands. Stone Temple Pilots is not bad. It's not bad. It's not bad. If you want to be oddly specific, like Nirvana.

I mean, Fuel's a good option. Can Red Hot Chili Peppers be in there? No, no. Well, way too big. Yeah, they're huge. Especially in the 2000s.

Oh, you can be too big for this. Yes, that's the point. That's the point. Good, but not it's close ended to a decade like there's no great Nickelback after 2010. So you've got to figure out who in the 90s. Oasis might be the answer to this question.

But see, like, dude, you go to the UK and they are we're not in the UK. Massive. By the way, going back to the 90s, I want to clear up something. There is only one song called The Freshman. I got confused by the fact there's a verb and the verb pipe, two separate groups.

The Freshman by The Verve Pipe. The verb sings It's a Bittersweet Sympathy. Bittersweet Sympathy. The verb. That's the verb. The verb and the verb pipe. Yeah. The verb does Bittersweet Sympathy.

Not so famously covered to the verb pipe. Bittersweet Sympathy. Symphony. Symphony. Sorry. Got to make sure I get the title right, which is known. Gosh, what's that movie? Cruel Intentions? Late 1990s?

I couldn't tell you. End of that movie? You were looking at Will as if he was going to have a clue. Terrible movie. I was just going to say, yep, that's Will. With Reese Witherspoon, right? Yeah. End of that movie. Bittersweet Sympathy. It sounds like something that we could maybe get to in unusual questions if we want to continue that conversation.

Let's get into ACC officiating, why don't we? All right. OK. OK. I hate people who constantly.

OK, I don't hate people. That's a little bit strong. It annoys me when people focus so much on the officiating.

It is a pet peeve that I have. And I'm at the point now where I think the ACC needs to stand up and defend their refs because what we've seen now with social media, outcry is at an all time high while context is at an all time low. So all you need is one little step, like, I don't know, 39 to 12 free throw disparity or last night. Oh, oh, last two games, 62 to 13 because Syracuse attempted or 62-15 because Syracuse attempted just three free throws for you to say officiating bias.

And then all you have to do is ask one question to undress that argument. OK, are you suggesting that there's bias? By the officials?

No. OK, well, then what are we talking about then? Or like the other implication there that people don't realize they're making sometimes when they they look at the numbers of free throws or the numbers of fouls called. It's like every game is not in a vacuum. With its own foul.

Breakdown from team to team. Like you're making the assumption that the same number of fouls happens on each end of the floor every single basketball game that you play, which is just not true. If a team is hacking the other guys, they're going to get called for fouls. NC State going into last Saturday led the ACC and fouls given because of how aggressive they are defensively. And Carolina led the ACC by far and fouls drawn because not because of bias, but because of Armando freaking Baycott.

That's the reason why. And here's the other thing. Sometimes the little bit of information is not foul disparity. It's actually a bad call, such as the Kyle Filipowski play on Monday.

I thought that was a bad call. But what we're seeing is Kyle Filipowski play flagrant one and Jim Boeheim's reaction at the end of last night's game at Syracuse. The foul disparity.

People put those three things together and all of a sudden we've got a crisis. Oh, we've got an officiating crisis when the reality is the ACC has really strong officials. They have at least three guys who are regularly final four officials, including guys who have worked these games we're talking about. You know who called that foul at the end of the game last night? Roger Ayers. He's the best referee in all of college basketball. You want to know who was the head official of NC State Carolina last Saturday?

Burt Smith. Burt Smith regularly works final fours. So what needs to happen from the ACC, in my opinion, and we've seen this a little bit from the NBA. Just a little bit of acknowledgment when mistakes are made, but also some facts, some defense being thrown out for these referees. It is a fact that in the era of replay, statistically, more calls are made accurately today than they have ever been in the history of college basketball. That is a fact. It's not an assumption. It's not a leap.

It's not a guess. It's a fact. You need people to defend that. And when people make mistakes, it could go a really long way. Like the NBA does with the two-minute reports, if you have somebody say the Filipowski play probably should have been called this way. And it was a mistake. But these officials got this percentage of the calls right.

I know some are thinking this could open up a can of worms. But I'm telling you, in the era where opinions are molded by social media, in the age where outcry is at an all-time high and context is at an all-time low, you need to combat this a little bit. I'm looking at Jim Phillips at the ACC office, assuming he's not interviewing right now for the Big Ten job or just focusing on football schedules that are dropping next week. Maybe it's Paul Brazo, who's the head of ACC basketball.

Somebody needs to stand up for these officials because I think you got really good refs. And the fact that some are running away with small contexts and trying to extrapolate that out to saying that the problem is a crisis. That it is a problem and it is a crisis. I think that's wrong. Did a referee write this segment? I'm kidding. No, but the element of being devoid of context isn't even just with fans anymore.

That's the most infuriating thing. When you've got Kevin Keats at the podium postgame for NC State saying definitively he's never been a part of a game, that a single team shot 39 free throws. We all can go back and look and see. You played one NCAA tournament game, man. We remember three years ago, one NCAA tournament game you've coached in and it happened and eight other times when you were at UNCW.

You're here in the state of North Carolina. His team had 39 free throws. Yes! Yes, you have. It just didn't look the same. Yes, it didn't do anybody any favor.

It didn't upset you because it favored your team. Desmond writes in, Papa Roach and the Goo Goo Dolls for the 90s. Goo Goo Dolls is interesting.

Well, I'm hesitant. Not that I don't respect Nickelback, but I'm hesitant to say it's the Goo Goo Dolls because of my respect for the Goo Goo Dolls and their catalog. Counting Crows. Are we going jam band?

Is that? This is a matter of genre. Are we doing jam band? You suggested D&B. Counting Crows kind of makes sense.

I guess what would be the drop be like? That's going to be the differentiator every time. We're not going boy band. Some are backstreet boys and stuff. Get out of here. No, no, no.

And those were like cultural phenomena too. It would probably hurt your feelings if we did Blink 182. We're not going to do that. Hey, Blink's back.

That's what I'm saying. They're still relevant, okay? REM's interesting. Yeah, they have hits in the 80s though. Too good. Hits in the 80s. Yeah. Huge hits in the 80s. Too good. Way too good.

That's an unusual question that we're just throwing out. Hanging around this town on the corner. Every time we do one, that's Counting Crows, right? I think Counting Crows also has a song in a key moment of the movie Cruel Intentions back in the late 1990s. Reese Witherspoon, have you heard of this movie? It's pretty good. They had no idea.

They were scoring that film with the most mediocre of 90s music. Do you want to give us a tease for an unusual question we might be answering in a second, W.D.? Yeah, I don't have one yet. I've got to figure one out over the break. So there's your tease. Get it together! Oh, please.

You've forgotten your unusual question multiple times. Wow. What a bad teammate there is. I mean, W.D. is a bad teammate.

He's awful. I'm over there. Unusual Questions is next. This is it. I want you to just pull that sound right there. The first line of this song. We're trying to figure out who the Nickelbacks of the 1990s are since we established the Imagine Dragons. They're that band of the 2010s. Darren, are you cool with the Counting Crows being that group?

I think so. Like, I'm mulling it over in my mind. Like, they're popular enough. They meet Nickelbacks popularity, right?

It's not too great where their music. You don't hear a lot of Counting Crows conversations 20 years later. No, not a lot of people are like, you know who's my favorite band ever? Counting Crows. But people might go back and say, you know who I really like? Counting Crows.

Nobody doesn't jam to Mr. Jones. It's like a kind of a take. Just like if you say, you know who was actually pretty good? Nickelback. Kind of a take.

People might disagree with you. Just like if you say, you know who actually got it figured out? The hairdo that the lead singer of the Counting Crows had. That guy had it all figured out. Might try to bring that back.

A lot of fashion in the 90s coming back in 2023. So let's just try to test this thing out before we get to Unusual Questions. Counting Crows of baseball. How about I lead off with center fielder Brady Anderson? No joke.

In Little League, I wore number nine for our guy, Brady. I did. I just, wait, I loved the sideburns. I don't know.

I loved it. And then he, you know, he roided up and did hit 52 bombs in the ones. So this is a question I have. BJ Serhoff was a Nickelback. Yeah. For the 2000s. Will.

But he also played half his career in the 1990s. Is he a Counting Crows as well? Also, I may want to I think we may amend the drop to the sha-la-la at the beginning. Oh, wow. What do we think? Can I hear the sha-la-la at the beginning of this song? Because maybe you're right. You're straining, Will.

I think it's pretty good. Right. Like, you know, I say Mickey Morandini. I think it's the sha-la-la.

I could see it either way. I think we found the right band, though. So thanks for all the submissions that we have here.

Maybe we might advance with this or maybe this will be the last time we ever do this. It's perfect, too, to me, because Mr. Jones specifically. So when I played at Emory & Henry College, that was on our playlist for like an old Dominion Athletic Conference doubleheader Saturday. So that is a song I very, very, very strongly associate with playing baseball in BFE, Virginia.

We've got unusual questions in a bit. Some of you might be completely lost because baseball's nostalgic. We came up with the Nickelbacks of the 2000s trying to identify players that were only good in the 2000s that were nostalgic about the 90s.

We're trying to figure out what band that might be to make a similar analogy. And we figured out that it is, in fact, counting gross. Real quickly, closing up this not cruel intentions, 1999. You tell me if this plot would fly in 2023. Annette, played by Reese Witherspoon, unwittingly becomes a pawn in Sebastian Ryan Philip and Catherine Sarah Michelle Geller's deliciously diabolical wager of sexual conquest when she writes an article in Seventeen magazine about how she intends to stay pure until she marries her boyfriend.

However, Sebastian gets more than he bargained for as he attempts to woo Annette into his bed. That's good synopsis writing, but no, there's no way you make that movie. Sarah Michelle Geller, at that point in time, was white hot. Yeah, that's before she did Scooby-Doo.

She was a sensation. That was before she did the Scooby-Doo movie. And she's playing, I think, Daphne a few years after that. She was Daphne. Uh-huh. Buffy?

Yeah, absolutely. She was Buffy. That was the biggest possible thing. I'm saying Scooby-Doo was kind of the end of it. Speaking of things that didn't age so well, last night I watched Big. How'd that scene go? Last 15 minutes of that movie, when she knows he's a 13-year-old boy and is, like, lovingly caressing his hair and stuff. What movie is this? Big, with Tom Hanks. It's an 80s movie. Here's the premise, WD.

Tell me how this would go. He is a 13-year-old boy who wishes upon a magical machine that he'd be big. And he's turned into a 30-year-old man, playing by Tom Hanks. And then some girl falls in love with him. There is a sex scene in this movie. And then later on, he wants to become a boy again. So there has to be the conversation of, by the way, BT Dubs, I'm 13. And we fornicated. She even asked the question, like, how young are you when you were a kid?

16 or 17? That doesn't make it okay either. He doesn't if that's better. That doesn't make it better.

No, it doesn't. Let's get to unusual questions, why don't we? Last week, guys, everybody made it out that I got mad at Josh and I left the press conference.

That's not right. I thought it was an unusual question and it's okay. It's time for Unusual Questions with Josh Graham. I did it. I did it, by the way. I just want to quickly interject. My goal since we started Unusual Questions was to make it, in one given show that I'm in studio, the most straight-laced thing that we do.

And I think I succeeded. This is as keeping it between the lines as we're going to be today. This hour has been off the rails. We're going to keep things in the straight and narrow in hour three when B-dot joins us in studio. What a show. Yeah, what a show this is.

I'll start. I've been sitting on this one for a few weeks. Told you guys that some folks damaged some of our radio signals. That's not cool. Those folks are going to be punished whenever we find out who they are. Oh, I thought you had breaking news. I was like, did we catch them? It's a federal crime. FBI's involved, you see.

Blue jackets and all. How would you do under FBI interrogation, Darren? Or W.D.? Oh, um. That's tough to answer.

I mean, does anybody know until they're in it? Once I brought up the FBI, I've had people emailing me and tweeting me. Hey, do you have the FBI grilling you asking what fan base has been hardest against you? Okay. All right. Yeah, but that's different than.

Or did you have any involvement in these towers? Right. So the reduction question is like, are you a good liar? Is that what we're asking?

Do you think if you had the lie to the FBI, you could get away with it? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think I could pull it off.

No chance. W.D., what's your unusual question? If you were a condiment, what would you be? Hmm. So this isn't what your favorite condiment is.

Yeah. If I was a condiment. Which one would you be? I'd be spicy mustard.

This is the part where I say I'm hot and exotic, so I'm sriracha. Dave from Winston-Salem says W.D. would fold like a card table underneath. Who said that? You would.

Dave from Winston-Salem said you would fold like a card table. Oh, be quiet, Dave. He is so right. He also says it's got to be sha-la-la-la-la, by the way.

Yeah, has to be, right? Sha-la-la-la-la. Sha-la-la-la-la-la.

There's an art on Twitter in our mentions, both you and I, Josh, that says Andrew Jones, sha-la-la-la. Like, that man might be a Hall of Famer. Come on. Come on. Put some respect on his name.

But also, his plight as a Hall of Fame candidate is the not so lengthy stretch in which he was good. So maybe that's accurate. I don't know. I would say I'm spicy mustard. Got some takes. Also, I just really like mustard. I don't even like mayo that much, but I feel like I might be mayo. Yeah, you're pretty toasty and white.

I mean, that's not why. It's tough to say. I made the hot and exotic joke, but, like, white, some sort of European descent mutt from the mountains.

It's not like I can say I'm soy sauce. What's your unusual question, Darren? You guys got a favorite flower. I'm wearing a tie. Do you guys know what flower this is on this tie?

I can't see it. That is a poppy. Poppies?

Slap. That's my favorite flower. I like poppy seed dressing.

I'm basic. Daisies. Will, what do you got? I'll go with a rose, just because. Loser. That's the only one. Yeah. Rose.

Be honest. Is that the only flower you know? Name three other flowers. Poinsettia.

Christmas. Poinsettia? It's a poinsettia?

I'm not getting into an argument with Darren. Yeah, do that one. It's less of a flower and more of a plant though, right? Like a plant? Not a flower. You would not... Poinsettia is not a flower? Yeah, poinsettia. We're talking about...

I'm not going to try and pronounce it. Tulips. Like an actual bud. There you go. That's a flower. That's one. There we go. Easter Sunday.

Take some tulips to your mother. Uh-huh. All right. So you know two. Good.

All right. Do you have a preference of those? Is the tulip your pick?

I'll go with a tulip. Roses are trash. Are they trash? Yeah, you just got to realize roses are trash.

Hmm. Unoriginal. Tulips are... It is unoriginal.

Overplayed. So I'll give you poinsettia. I'm a big Christmas guy. Yeah. No, that checks out for you. And that's been unusual questions for this week. I'll close things out by just simply saying one more name. Mark Lemke. Yes!

Yes! The big cat. Not big cat.

That's Andres, Colorado. What did they call Lemke? I don't know. Something cat.

Right? Wasn't he a cat? He was a brave. Lemur? Hold up.

I got to Google. He was the Lemur. The Lemur. The Lemur. Lemur. Lemur.

Whatever. Lemke. Lemke.

Mark Lemke. That's a good one. Sha la la la la la la la.

Sha la la indeed. 7 o'clock. 7 o'clock. 7-11.

7 la la la la la la. 7 o'clock tip for High Point. Campbell tonight.

ESPN Plus. You can watch Darren Vaught. Have a great call tonight, buddy.

I will. I'll see you guys. That's Darren Vaught.

Yeah, that's just a really normal hour radio we just did. And now, the moment you've all been waiting for. You're on the Drive with Josh Graham.

VDots in studio with us. I am. 6th man of Carolina basketball.

I am. Tar Heels. Fresh off that win against Syracuse last night. Before we get to that, though, did anything from Saturday rub you the wrong way about what came from this NC State, North Carolina game? There was a lot of venom on both sides. Really? I've been oblivious, man.

I've been so busy. Folks were mad at Armando Bacot because of the shades when Taquavion got hurt. Folks were mad that Carolina fans booed the fact that Leakey got thrown out of the game.

It was so unjustified. Right, but you were in the building when this was all happening. There's a distinction to be made between standing ovation, applause for Taquavion when he comes off the floor. Did you hear the chanting?

Yeah. Did you forget the chanting? I couldn't hear the chanting. I didn't know they were chanting.

Oh, the student section definitely chanted. Baby T. You got it going, didn't you? Baby T. Right.

So that's happening. Actually, Adam Lucas sent me a text message. He was like, it'd be cool if you could get the student section to do a Baby T chant. And I said, on it. So I passed it to them.

I was like, when they cross over half court, we start Baby T chant. And he did. That's a really nice thing. Didn't know that.

Didn't come across on television. Good to know. But there's a distinction between that and then fans being mad when after the fact, Leaky Black is objected for the flag or two. Now, I don't want to relitigate all of it, but there was just a lot of stuff to come out of it. Taquavion going out later that night and then some people saying, well, if you were really that hurt. Right.

College kids going to be college kids. If you're fine, you can go out. That's not a problem, obviously. But it was a classic rivalry game. I loved it. A lot of stuff came out of it and it wasn't just the basketball game. And I don't think that's cool. Taquavion's fine now. So we can talk about all these things. Yeah, absolutely.

He played 39 minutes last night. I don't think it's cool for them to go at Mondo like that when Taquavion jumped out their first shooting off his shots. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's always interesting. It's cool when they do it. It's a problem when I do it.

And I don't really appreciate that. Like when NC State shoots their stuff out, like their coaches talk trash about us or their players talk trash about us. We all have to just sit back and take it as cool. Whenever we say something in retaliation into the rivalry, then it's a problem. But then if we say there is no rivalry, then it's a problem.

It's damned if you do damned if you don't with the whack pack. The argument in this case, to be fair, is that it's not the fact he wore the shades. It's the fact that we didn't know what Taquavion's status was at that point. Now, I didn't take much offense to it. I didn't take it that seriously. I don't think a lot of people were offended by it. It's just something easy on social media to amplify and make it seem like you were upset. Clearly it was pre-planned.

Mondo clearly was like, if we win, I'm going to have the shades on as a retaliation. You know what I mean? And by that point, we had heard enough behind the scenes that we knew that it wasn't a horrific like season ending, like it wasn't that type of energy at that time. I understand. I made the argument yesterday that Armando is probably the most beloved Tar Heels since Hansboro. No doubt about it. And I, you know, that's the, that's saying a lot because people love Theo. People love Joel Berry, you know, people may Marcus pay. Yeah.

Like whenever, whenever anything with Cam Johnson pops up there or Brady Manning, they go absolutely insane in the center. But what Armando has been able to do and just to watch him just progress over these last four years in the records that he's broken, he's definitely like Iron Man, all time, top five Tar Heel of all time. Cause the two things, wow, I don't even know if I would go that far, but that is pretty far. That's a fact.

Two things that you mentioned there I think are key to this. Number one, his journey, where his career resides, his first two years were Roy Williams last two years. His next, his final two years are Hubert Davis's first two seasons. That placement in Carolina history is significant, but also the records you're talking about are not just small records. It's rebounding and a 60 year old record from Billy Cunningham.

That's not small. And on a team that features bigs, you know, like Roy Williams entire tenure was always to rebound, you know, two bigs down there. So like rebounding has been our forte. So for Armando to come from Richmond, Virginia and to surpass Tyler Hansberry and continue to pile on like this season is far from over, Josh, you know, like, so he's gonna make a record that probably will stand to the end of time. I hope that his name hangs in the rafters, but they have actual criteria that you have to obtain to do it. And I think he is on track, you got to win ACC Player of the Year or be first or second team All-American or be the most outstanding player in the final four. A lot of people forget Tar Heel fans know, but maybe others don't, that Kennedy Meeks probably was the most deserving player in that 2017 final four of getting that award. If you go back to the Oregon and Gonzaga games, but Joel Berry got the award and Joel Berry has his name hanging in the rafters as a result.

So there is actual criteria that are attached to these things. And that's something to follow as we go further in the season. Syracuse last night, W.D. and this is, I see in a lot of care, a lot of fans has this feeling that good things are just going to happen to his team. That's just it.

It's not that they're just going to miraculously, I just think they were good enough to make it happen. Yeah. I wasn't too worried about it. You didn't have fear. You just thought they were going to happen.

Yeah. You were worried? I was worried. You were worried. I was worried. I was worried. I was worried. I was worried. I was worried. I was worried. Cause it looked like Pittsburgh all over again. Like once R.J. missed back to back free throws.

I was worried. Like those were just things that just uncharacteristic. Like one in four on the road so far this year. The lead slipped away. That's why I thought that's a win that North Carolina should be really proud of because now they have four straight wins and they're going into a stretch where they don't play in a week. And we saw the last time how big that week off after the Virginia tech game was in November for them. is a good spot for them now to really move forward and improve now that I'm telling you I'm gonna be 100% honest the NC State game I never felt that game was in doubt ever like I never for a second felt like oh my gosh NC State's about to make a run and never I have no clue why I maybe it was the rebounding record that we were we were chasing that day or the energy that was there the 1993 team Roy Williams was this close to coming on the court and swag surfing with me to start it off he was this close are you gonna get that to happen for the Duke game I don't know man he's not if I couldn't get it for NC State I don't think I can get it like he he would have done it if I would have been like dang coach all right he would have been like all right I'll do it but he just feels comfortable up there doing it with Wanda and I told him I respected that I saw Mac Brown doing it the last game yeah Mac Brown was up there doing it maybe he'll get that he definitely would be game for that yeah he'll go down there and do it with you you just gotta ask him yeah I might have to see if coach Mac do you have any interactions with any of the 93 guys nah man as a matter of fact I was trying to leave the way I normally leave to get out of the arena and it was the room I would have to go through that's where the 93 team was and I go to walk up like I'm in a security stopped me like whoa it's the 93 team I was like no I'm just passed through we don't care it's the 93 team I was like wow okay I wanted to see Dante Calabria just imagine what they would have done for the 82 team sheesh nah the 82 team when they came that was NC State last year that's right that was OD like I remember seeing MJ in the tunnel and you remember that scene in the little mermaid where the sea witch takes um Ariel's voice of course that's what happened to me he loves little mermaid I love the little mermaid uh man I'll tell you something that's firing me up from the NFL perspective so they announced the finalists for NFL MVP today and you've got Josh Allen okay Jay Wynn hurts don't think he'll win probably thought he would win if he didn't get hurt in December Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes so that's what I want to center on here there's this conversation that people are having Joe Burrow plays Patrick Mahomes this weekend that if Joe Burrow beats Patrick Mahomes that means he's the best quarterback in the NFL on Sunday because he would have now beaten in three seasons Patrick Mahomes four straight times and he just beat George uh Josh Allen yeah right I think that's ridiculous and people need to put some respect on Patrick Mahomes's name because last I checked Sunday is not the Super Bowl right Patrick Mahomes has one of those right so if Joe Burrow beats Patrick Mahomes Sunday and then goes on to win the Super Bowl okay maybe we could have a conversation maybe but what's funny to me about what's funny to me about it is even as people say if Joe Burrow does this and you know what maybe they will nobody if I asked anybody hey you can have a quarterback to win a game today you can have Joe Burrow or Patrick Mahomes nobody's taking Joe Burrow in that instance right right you're not no I'm not I'm not I'm thinking Patrick Mahomes I'm taking the guy who looks like a wizard when he throws the ball yeah the artist but Joe Burrow's getting close no listen yes he is the nerves of it he's got ice in his veins and Mahomes doesn't he does I said he's getting close they're just too I think I agree with WD he's getting close I agree in the idea that he is I'll add two letters it's like he goes numb and I'm gonna add two letters to your sentence closer I'll take it different than close it's actually one letter because you're just adding an r oh that's true thank you but nevertheless the point is I think that was actual grammar school that was you're an idiot um no but Mahomes yeah you definitely go Mahomes but I'm telling you like it's something about that Burrow man like he got that swag he's like he's like the the the the the the the what is it the villain version of Mahomes like Patrick Mahomes is the good guy and Burrow is just a cold villain just but they're the exact same skill set and he can pull it off is there a cooler quarterback in the NFL than Joe Burrow no he's like Joe Namath that's it like I can't the jacket yeah I'm trying to think in a cigar by the pool side with some bad chicks you're never gonna see Patrick Mahomes doing it like see that's the thing who do I want is my quarterback sounds like he needs to clear his throat every time I talk yeah we had a really big game today who do I want to hang with after a win oh Travis was open Burrow yeah all day I like ketchup on my on my mashed potatoes and his teammates feel it too like you can my mac and cheese like they were smoking cigars after the game the other day that's how they do their bosses I love that the MVP shouldn't even be a conversation it should be Mahomes this year plain and simple I don't know man no I mean who's in that conversation I mean Burrow you got to put him there man it was a point in the season where we didn't even think the Bengals were going to be here like they took a nice little dip I don't know it's not factoring you you it doesn't factor the postseason I thought they'd be here he did he picked them to win the Super Bowl yeah but it doesn't factor it doesn't factor the postseason and the reality I'm not talking about the postseason I'm talking about just the regular season not them beating the bills just now I'm talking about everything that led up to them even getting to the spot where they went to play the bills like the the the Chiefs were they number two in the AFC number one one oh they dang the bills lost all because of that game with the with the Bengals see that game should have been played out I mean well it shouldn't have been played out obviously but if that game would have been played out that would have made things a lot different like you know what you want some dirt on it yeah five minute break let's let's play it now that he's okay we can make sure that's about what I meant I understand in addition to playing grammar school a long time NBA coach plays grammar school as well man they some copycats man next I feel comfortable making eight mile jokes because I know wd seen that movie good many times hanging out in studio with us I've probably seen that movie twice you need to watch it again things are very rewatchable it aged well I think so like the little mermaid exactly like that wd is gonna watch goodfellas tonight yep I haven't seen that one in a very long time but I do remember that being an extra great movie god good fellas insulted them just a little bit just a little bit I don't know keep them here keep them here yeah I know that reference yeah I do know that reference we got grammar school in just a bit but some people might be stealing our bit might be it ain't no might be at this point it's evident josh like you can be a denial all you want it happened organically though to give credit or to be fair because stan van gundy made some point last week on social media about player empowerment or something and kevin durant responded you spitting and stan van gundy took that as if kevin durant was saying that he was lying and kd had to explain to him and this is great to follow on twitter had to explain to him what spitting meant which led to last night as our friend ian eagle was on the call with stan van gundy wait spitting just means that he's he's rapping he's bars is bars and what he's saying is truth right now that's right thank you for explaining that because some people might not know there adam left go on the tnt broadcast through another word and it was actually brian anderson sitting next to stan van gundy not iron eagle but this is how it sounded on tnt we all know that you learned last week what spitting means congratulations what do you think the word busing means use it in a sentence busing good luck wow well to use it in a sentence brian i would say that shack and jamal's suits and candace's sweater are bussing and yes adam left go i left you out i thought you're gonna jump like a bus in your rear end or something like that good job man stan you're really every week you're adding layers and layers how about this look right here by lebron threading the needle gabriel couldn't quite finish it but he'll go to the line for a pair lebron's playmaking is bussing i like that see at first i was like oh they definitely prepped him definitely they definitely prepped him there's no chance they did it not a chance he just jumps out there blindly but then how does brian anderson not know because he jumped in there talking about bussing your real your rear end yeah but i would do that too if if somebody threw one at you like that if the same scenario happened with us and we and you said the right thing happened and you said the right thing and you said the right answer i would definitely come in and be like oh okay josh see i thought you just had something like bussing your tail or he's bussing them down on the court oh so you're saying brian anderson knew but was given van gundy props he's in on it so this was staged a hundred percent that's step up your game turner but the thing is though van gundy he solidified himself when he threw it in at the end because that wasn't in reference to a suit or anything like that like the way he used it the first time somebody had prepped him bussing is when they they look nice and something as you like something oh their suit they look they that's bussing but when he said lebron's playmaking out there is bussing it was like okay van gundy you know how to use it across the board and to spell it out what does bussing mean oh bussing just mean it's fly it's off the chains i'm loving it it's good it's dope if something is good it's bussing it can be food oh this food is bussing this show is bussing my boy wd is bussing yeah i mean the three of us we get together the energy be bussing yeah it is you know i mean the tarheels last night against syracuse they were bussing but then you had that kid from syracuse who came through and he was really bussing people's lips so that's a different play on bussing judah mens let's get to can't think of a better transition for grammar school josh graham has his own way of speaking and just when you think it can't get any worse rah rah rah josh is going to attempt to learn b-dots vernacular i'm gonna put one in the air it's time for b-dots grammar school b-dots free game during game postgame brought to you by heritage hardwood floors when it comes to flooring they have no ceiling heritage hardwood floors you know what he doesn't even need the paper but i'll give it to you anyway i saw a recap of the winston-salem state game last week and the cheerleaders were on the floor dancing during their cheer like they do after all the wins and that heritage hardwood floor just looked so good on the video oh yeah it looked amazing out there man if you need some superior craftsmanship the best way to do it is holler at heritage hardwood floors homes businesses event centers churches gyms it don't matter man if you need a floor they can hook you up holla jesse and katherine okay when it comes to flooring they have no ceiling got some bad news for you dot what i wasn't able to incorporate want the smoke are you serious because wake forest doesn't do breakout interviews after games so i didn't have a chance to talk one-on-one with anybody and they lost on saturday and i don't think i was gonna do breaking out want the smoke after the loss to virginia wow so i still have that written down it's a good excuse it's not my fault so throw one more word at me here and i'll incorporate either both or one of the two in the next week all right i'm gonna throw out a word that you have me right now that word is tight ah yeah you got me tight because you could have used that some kind of some kind of some place at some point you could ask coach forbs well not only that tony bennett you want me to throw it tony bennett so how do you get your guys amped up y'all seem like y'all want the smoke tony bennett tony bennett you want the smoke that's what you say did they bring any players out at all they did to the press conference yeah because that's how they do it over there they'll just bring out a couple from the game yeah but i i thought i was going to talk to somebody afterwards it just didn't work out you can't do it when you're only in your comfort zone yeah sounds like a good opportunity to break it out absolutely in front of everybody yeah my entire room is like wow that guy over there he's hip that's what they're gonna say he brought the smoke he brought the smoke clearly he wants the smoke in this media world all right sorry i made you guys tight yeah so use tight or want the smoke next week we'll get that done i do have a caustic question for you matter of fact i think you should have to use both of them and see at this point what we'll do is if you don't do it next week we'll just add we're just going to keep adding words that you're going to have to use anxiety building here's my question i was talking about the movie cruel intentions a few times obscure late 90s movie that featured Reese Witherspoon yeah i vaguely remember that movie yeah no chance that movie could be made in 2023 kind of like big which i watched last night wow why couldn't big be made now the last 15 minutes when she learns the guy's a 13 year old and still like caressing his hair and asking are you at least 15 or 16 as it it's not it's not great but i will contest that one of the best seeds of the history of film is still the scene where they're playing chopsticks on the large piano on the ground yeah the keyboard yeah yeah i do remember that scene still is fantastic and i love the movie big i just don't think that age is particularly well other than cruel intentions name a Reese Witherspoon movie clueless that's not Reese Witherspoon dang it see why you thought that but it's not her you're thinking of Alicia Silverstone what was that movie she did with um uh it was she was a police officer Reese Witherspoon was she was along with Sofia Vergara yeah what movie was that you know what i'm talking about no they were an undercover cop that sounds terrible give me other Reese Witherspoon there's a movie with Reese Witherspoon and Sofia Vergara what does Reese yes what does Reese Witherspoon look like uh Reese Witherspoon well she was in Cruel Intentions here she is right here oh yeah i know her she's got the eyes yeah she's got yeah she's in Legally Blonde Legally Blonde is what i meant not clueless i promise yo sweet home alabama legally blonde is what i was thinking man yeah big little lies for those because she's she's pretty clueless and legally blonde pretty good but you're still not getting points dang it what are your questions for me today all right up first it was raining outside all day today and it had me thinking of something that's definitely used in the urban demographic and i will see today if it's also used in the carcastic homes as well has it stopped raining no i'm not sure no it has not got me optimistic and hopeful about my drive home that it wouldn't be raining anymore what was a rule in big mama house during a thunderstorm josh graham what was a rule in big mama house about when a thunderstorm is happening during a thunderstorm there are rules in big mama house there's two rules in big mama house during a thunderstorm two things you do not do it don't happen during a thunderstorm three three six seven seven seven one six hundred that's the phone number if you'd like to be a lifeline for josh graham three three six seven seven seven one six hundred sarah bradford's blowing up my text i could see it on my ipad really and it sat sounds like she knows that she knows let me see why she does it did she text the answer she thought it was on beat out to instagram i know this i know you be quiet sarah bradford why don't you use the lifeline number three three six seven seven seven one six hundred sarah bradford we gave you a way to help i love her she sent like eight messages in a row all given the answer so annoying she's amazing that is we gave a phone line she was so excited though i can hear her screaming i know this i know this like i mean come on there's you three three six seven seven seven one six hundred and you're blowing up my phone there's like don't you look at don't you look at it leave it alone don't you try to look at it i don't even think they're still up anymore they are they are they're still up don't you freaking look at it you get out of here who we got on the line oh someone's called up jim and lexington what do you got jim i i have a guess but before you go i think it has something to do with like holding the remote maybe jim what is it uh don't get on the phone don't get on the phone okay so there's two things you don't do thank you for the call jim appreciate that advice don't get on the i'm gonna say yeah that sounds right don't get on the phone and i'm gonna say don't like hold the remote for the tv like you can't have the remote in your hand that's what my mom always said when i was a kid like make sure you're not holding the remote sarah bradford text us right now and let us know should we give josh graham that point because you know the answer and what josh graham said was not the answer however you can sort of flip it and maybe make it the answer what's wait what's i write about the phone maybe maybe jim was he right about the phone was he right about the phone yeah maybe throw jim under the bus please text sarah bradford text we're going to come back to this one you have her number you could just text i'm waiting on her to text you back because it's funny just to see you have my phone and you're just waiting for her to see so many messages she sent with the answer it is hilarious oh but so i i got it wrong pretty much i think okay let's see i didn't want to give you the buzzer because i wanted to wait for sarah bradford how close was i we're gonna move we're gonna move forward we're gonna come back okay we're gonna come back put your phone down i don't know why i just reached i'm still waiting for your text sarah bradford all right well that's pending this is one word two different ways to use it so two different ways for you to get two points you got it the word is fit f-i-t now what does it mean if she throws a fit she's mad at you like she is upset with you she is throwing a fit congratulations give him a bell on that second what does fitna mean f i t yeah f i t apostrophe n a we're not talking about fitness jokes are we okay thank you fit nah i thought you were to ask me what a fit was and i was gonna dunk and talk about outfits and such thought i had it fitna rhyming with former lions quarterback john kitna yeah three three six seven seven seven one six hundred has sarah bradford texted you back yeah we're texting on my phone now she text your phone to tell me that she texted me on my phone so now we're texting on my phone you guys are so obnoxious i love her so much do we have a ruling and my christmas cards returned yesterday that's kind of weird what is that oh she told you about that yeah i was supposed to tell you oh it's because it's the wrong address don't worry about it i'll tell you see we've been doing this so long i ran out of music oh well it's because we're stalling at this and also be waiting for help from the lines that you're not looking at she's so biased she's so biased she thinks i should get the point of course she does well what was the answer okay the answer two rules in big mama house is no talking and no electricity like you got to cut all you got to cut all the electricity all the appliances no tv no talking no electricity so no phone is possibly no no i mean no talking no the remote was horrible that was what made you go down the toilet okay so i still don't know okay fitna what is fitna who do we got to help me out with fitna zack and winston we're going back to help on what are we doing double phone lines oh wait that's right no we've already done a lifeline right no no i'm going to zack i didn't crazy i need zack's help zack zack hey help me what's going on real quickly before they hang up on the line help me okay like i'm sitting about to whoop that tail or okay i like that thanks zack run run get him out of here i don't know how the hell we got to you i gave you one today your butt i gave you one today he did man what was that wd well the guy didn't help me you got it wrong it doesn't matter that was your lifelong you might not get one sorry yeah no don't don't this does not carry over okay fitna your final answer yes that is correct thank you i'm fitting a blank that's what i'm fitting to do we need to get one more in here quickly that's it we're done you did three wait we got three yes oh that's right oh okay okay oh did you get the did you get the the first one she no sarah bradford sarah bradford said yes give it to him but that's just because she's in love with him all right there you go you got three for three but not really though when i put on my notes i'm gonna say you only got that one because of sarah bradford