Cleo Hill Jr. & Tubby Smith (3/2/20)

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I need to talk to you for a second. Prepare yourself and your hearts for Danny Manning keeping his job beyond this year at Wake Forest. I know a few weeks ago this seemed inconceivable. It's something I came on the radio and said, Hey, I can't see a circumstance where he keeps his job beyond this year. But I'm not one of those sports radio hosts that's just going to have an opinion and after receiving more information is just going to try and justify what he said weeks ago. No, that's not flip flopping. That is learning more information and having that affect your view.

It's being open minded about things. Well, I still think it's best for Wake Forest basketball. They have a new leader of the program after Danny had a shot at it for six years and only made it to the NCAA tournament one time.

I can see the situation he's brought back and I think this is something very real that we have to prepare for here. In fact, if you were to ask me what percentage chance there is, Danny Manning returns. It's over 40%. Like this is probably a 50-50 guess right now.

A 50-50 percentage split if you look at that pie. Wake Forest keeping Danny. Wake Forest moving on.

The team has improved first and foremost. It's the second most talented team he's had in Wake Forest. Tied for second most wins with 13 overall.

He has three more winnable games remaining. They play North Carolina tomorrow, which they've already beaten. NC State on the road in Raleigh. God knows what NC State team you're going to get. We learned that with Pittsburgh on Saturday as the Wolfpack eke passed.

Jeff Capels reeling Panthers. We know they're going to play a Tuesday game at the ACC tournament in Greensboro. That's going to be a winnable game in the first round.

So there are still wins left to be gotten for Danny. And they've beaten big four teams that Danny hasn't beaten before. Beat Duke. Beat North Carolina.

That might sound insignificant to you. Oh, Duke's lost three of the last four to unranked teams. This is a Blue Devil team that probably isn't going to be a final four quality one. Fourth in the ACC standings in a year. The ACC is down. North Carolina has had a down year. So how much value can you really put on that win for Danny and Wake Forest? I'm here to tell you it means a lot. It means more than the other wins against ACC competition.

There's no question about it. Secondarily, the buyout is still very expensive. Best case scenario. Jeff Goodman's number of 18 million in either November or December of 2018 was off his buyout figure of 18 million. That's far too large of a sum. I've been told I was told last spring by some people around Wake Forest that, hey, it's probably closer to 12 to 14 million.

And this year it probably goes down to about 10 to 12. But we've never gotten any that officially. Wake Forest is a private school. They don't have to reveal these things. Connor O'Neill, he did the reporting for the Winston-Salem Journal this past weekend talking about Danny's situation. And they reached out to John Curry for an interview to try and get some quotes. He turned down the interview. And Danny Manning, Ron Wellman was asked, Danny was asked about his contract situation when they decided to bring him back last year. They would not comment further on that. The fact that the total hasn't leaked I think can be used as justification for keeping him. If we're led to believe it's 18 million and it isn't, and again, I don't know what the buyout figure is, then there are at least some understanding Wake Forest fans who would say, yeah, Danny at least has done well enough to not shell out $18 million to get rid of him and to hire a new basketball coach after that. I'm not saying that's why this has happened. Maybe it's just a standing policy. We're not going to reveal that type of information.

But where journalism's at in 2020 and social media being as prevalent as ever, I'm surprised that figure hasn't been released since Jeff Goodman said it's 18 million over a year ago. Next year's team though, if you look at the guys who are back, who are scheduled to be back, probably the better way to say that. Guys could transfer, some could go pro, like we saw with Darryl Moore, Bryant Crawford. We saw that with, you know, Mitaglue leaving early, John Collins leaving to the NBA.

These things can happen. It's not the time to count your chickens before they hatch. But here, I think if you look at the talent on this roster, there are enough good players to field maybe Danny Manning's most talented team at his time at Wake Forest in 2020, 2021.

I don't think that's unrealistic at all. I think if the players return in a way they returned a year ago, not a lot of turnover from 2019 to 2020. You could field a pretty good roster at point guard Jacoby Neath who's taken steps. You have this three star point guard who's a top 40 point guard at his position nationally out of Chicago, Marcus Watson.

Those rankings according to Demon Deacon Digest at 24-7. Shooting guard Chondi Brown, you could put him there. Have Sharron Wright, Mike Wynn stepping in. Small forward Isaiah Musias going into his junior season. Ishmael Massoud, his second year. Up front Odie Igwama has really come on this year amid some of the injuries Wake's had up front.

Olivier Saar has been a revelation. Going into the year, it's been a frustration with him. He will show you at points why he's starting in the ACC. He will show flashes why some think he could be a great player, but he's never really done it consistently. Last week against Duke, he puts up 25. And then on Senior Day Saturday, I was there at the Joel, he had 30 and 17.

A marvelous performance for Olivier. If he returns, that's a pretty good starting five. You had two bigs injured at the start of the year, assumedly you get back.

Tariq Ingram and Sunday OKK. It's a pretty good roster right there and Wake can have success with it. Now, I still think if I had to guess today, Wake Forest is going to make a change at head coach.

Just because the standard hasn't been met at any point really the last six years. Even the year that Wake Forest went to the NCAA tournament lost in Dayton. They were 10th in the ACC. I read the story from Connor last week that I just alluded to, calling Joel Coliseum at times, being reminiscent of a morgue. It's the 10th straight year Wake Forest attendance at the Joel has been under 10,000 fans. This year is the lowest of the 30 year history of Joel Coliseum.

The average attendance was less than 7000 people. Robert, do you know how much the Joel Coliseum holds? 15. 14.

So that building, on average, consisted of what was more than half full or was less than half full, I beg your pardon. So I think the decision hasn't been made yet. Wake Forest fans need to prepare for Danny potentially returning. I think it is a toss up what's going to happen with the Demon Deacon head coach once this season ends. Another thing that might be significant, they lost the one game when all the luminaries were there. They're honoring Dave Odom. And Mitch Shaw hasn't been to a game all year. He shows up for the Georgia Tech game. They lose that game. And Tim Duncan and others are here.

And all Wake Forest has to draw on is the past. And that couldn't even bring out a massive crowd to Joel Coliseum. So I don't know if they can afford to keep Danny around when you consider the financial aspect and the losses just at the gate attendance wise at the Joel. Let's go to Scott in Greensboro who wants in on Danny Manning and what potentially could happen after this season ends.

Scott, your own sports hub try it. What's your thought on it? You make a very good argument for the possibility of them keeping them. But the way I look at it, and I don't know what the buyout was at the time, was Dino Gaudio took Wake the number one in the country and was let go after that season, if I remember correctly. And if they'll get rid of somebody after taking Wake to number one, they'll get rid of Danny Manning off of just one trip to the NCAA in six or seven years. Scott, it's interesting you should bring that up.

Thanks for the call. They were number one in the 2009 season. They were ranked very high at the start of the 2010 season. But that year was underwhelming and didn't meet expectations. There were a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that fortunately we haven't had to deal with with Danny Manning and the players that he's recruited.

Not a lot of stuff going on off the floor that we could be critical of the coach, the type of player he's bringing in. It's not a simple thing to address quickly what happened with Dino Gaudio, but the buyout figure, as you mentioned at the beginning, not as big, not nearly as big as what Wake Forest could be staring down right here with Danny. We're going to be joined by Tubby Smith, high point head basketball coach, national title winner in a little over 30 minutes.

It just feels so great that we're in the month of March. So many great games around here that we're going to be watching this week. And in the NFL, a massive headline from one of the biggest stars not playing, Tony Romo reportedly gets a $17 million annual contract from CBS that's going to keep him with Jim Nantz on CBS's top team for at least the next five years. But according to Richard Deisch, there's an agreement in place that would have him well beyond the next five. So expect Tony Romo, as long as the CBS NFL relationship is there for the next decade, maybe even more than that, Tony Romo going to be working games with Jim Nantz.

Hello, friends. A lot of people push back on it, say it's ridiculous at face value. There are players saying, how do you expect us to sign a CBA when we're not getting enough of a cut that we're making more than the broadcaster in the booth. But obviously, Romo is a different case. Romo is an exception to the broadcasting rule. CBS in making this decision to not even allow Romo to hit the market. They had in this contract that they had a 30-day negotiating period that began after the Super Bowl, after the season ended, where Romo couldn't talk to ESPN, couldn't talk to other competitors. Reportedly, ESPN was preparing to give him a massive deal that looks a lot like the one he just got at CBS.

The reason they didn't let it get to that, I think, was to send a message to the NFL and ESPN that they are still the top of the line in football broadcasting right now. The new TV deal for the NFL, their deals that they're looking to broadcast their games on, NBC, CBS, ESPN, those deals expire in 2022, but they're expecting for those conversations to start, the negotiations to renew those deals later this year. The NFL, they want the top broadcast talent on their games. They want Romo to be there. And now that Romo is under contract with CBS, and the totals put out there, how much CBS is paying, the NFL has had a long-standing relationship with CBS.

So now they're going to want Romo on their games. And of course, CBS wants to be with the NFL or else they don't pay $17 million. I think this weekend's news all but cemented that part of the NFL's future in broadcasting. CBS is going to be there in some way, shape or form. The NFL, as I mentioned, they want the best talent, calling their best games.

I think it's far from a coincidence. ESPN has seen a dip in the quality of matchups they get on Monday Night Football in the last three years. And the fact that Jon Gruden is no longer the analyst there.

It's been Jason Witten and Booger McFarland. The quality of the broadcast has gone down since Torrico left and Gruden left, so the games that they received haven't been as great. That's why I think ESPN wanted to get Romo. And I think they can still salvage something if they go after Peyton Manning, who already has a relationship with ESPN through the Peyton's Places series on ESPN Plus and the details show that he does. That would make the most sense. Last year they went up to Manning and according to reports, he didn't want to become the color analyst while Eli Manning, his brother, was playing.

He didn't want to be in a position where he'd have to criticize his brother. So now that Eli's retired, it seems Peyton will make the most sense for ESPN to call and try to bolster their Monday Night Football package. It's not as absurd as you think financially, though.

Think about this. CBS pays the NFL $1 billion with a B every single year. They pay $100 million just in production costs. An additional $25 million just to put things together for a Super Bowl broadcast. They have 10 million more viewers in that 4.30 national slot on Sundays than Monday Night Football gets. When you consider all of these things, $17 million to make sure you secure Tony Romo, I'm not going to say it's a drop in the bucket, but it's not a crazy overspending spree on talent by CBS.

They used Romo. Obviously you want to have him to make sure your broadcast is pristine, but I can't think of anybody in the history of the world who said, you know what, I was thinking about watching this NFL game, but I'm not going to watch because this guy's broadcasting. Or more importantly, I'm going to watch because this guy is calling the game.

I think it's a reputation thing. I think it's sending a message for ongoing TV negotiations and the television contracts expiring in 2022. It's sending a message that, hey, CBS is still putting on better broadcasting of the NFL and live events than ESPN. We're going to be joined in moments by Cleo Hill Jr., the head coach of the CIAA champion, Winston-Salem State Rams, and what a game it was at Spectrum Center to set the scene very quickly for those who didn't follow it over the weekend. Winston-Salem State that just two years ago had five wins on a season that hasn't won the CIAA championship in eight years.

We're down 11 points with less than four minutes remaining and went on a miraculous run, ended up winning by a bucket, a last second heave by Fayetteville State, didn't go, and there was just pure emotion on the floor for the Rams. Cleo Hill Jr., of course, the son of the Winston-Salem State legend, Cleo Hill Sr., who played alongside Earl the Pearl Monroe way back on those legendary teams, had a run of success in the NBA as well. So we'll chat with Cleo Hill Jr. in just a bit. That isn't the only great college basketball story from over the weekend you may have missed. Jim Calhoun is a former national championship winning coach at UConn, and he's been out of D1 coaching for the last handful of years. Kevin Ollie took over for him probably in 2012 or 2013.

They won the national title in 2014. Kevin Ollie has since been fired. Dan Hurley, now the head coach at UConn. But Coach Calhoun got back into it a couple of years ago.

But not at the D1 ranks, as I mentioned. He is at D3 St. Joseph in West Hartford, Connecticut, and his team went 26-2 this year. 26-2, and they won their conference championship this weekend to get an automatic bid into the D3 NCAA tournament.

And what makes the story even more incredible? I was reading a story that Chris Bingle wrote for CBS Sports. Apparently, the school he was at only accepted men just two years ago as an institution. So they didn't have a men's basketball program, and they didn't even accept men into their institution before 2018. Yet this year, in the infancy stages of this program, they had two early losses in the month of November, and since then have just gone on a roll. A 25-game winning streak when they started the season 1 and 2. 25 consecutive wins for Jim Calhoun and his St. Joseph team in D3 basketball.

I thought that was a really neat deal as well. But we have another national championship winning coach who's going to be on this show. Tubby Smith is going to join us from High Point. He is one of the nine active D1 head coaches who have won national championships, joining a list of Tony Bennett, Jay Wright, Roy Williams, Coach K, Bill Self, John Calipari, Jim Boeheim, Tom Izzo. All of those coaches have won national championships, as has Tubby Smith, whose High Point Panthers have had a rough go at it. 22 losses this year, more than Tubby Smith's had in a very long time. His High Point Panthers are going to play in the Big South tournament tomorrow. It seems we have difficulty trying to find Cleo Hill Jr., so we'll hope to chat with him in just a bit. But it was a wonderful story this weekend at Spectrum Center, and it's the last year they're going to be playing the CIAA tournament in Charlotte.

They're going to move things to Baltimore starting next year. In addition to that going on, we're going to be keeping an eye on Duke NC State later on tonight. Zion Williamson faced LeBron James last night, and it was a standout performance, and I want to spend some time on that in about 10 minutes. Zion facing LeBron for the first time last Tuesday, and then last night, they both went head to head, so we'll get back to that in 10 minutes. We're now being joined by Cleo Hill Jr., the head coach of Winston-Salem State basketball.

So I spelled it out. I set the scene about as well as I could, coach. What happened late in that game, how you guys came back, the historical significance of it as well, and of course, your background. How much time passed after the buzzer sounded in Charlotte before you thought about your legendary dad and what this accomplishment might have meant to him? Oh, wow.

That's a loaded question there, Josh. Well, it wasn't at the end of the game. It was actually throughout the course of the game that I thought about him, the possibility of us winning the game and what it would mean. It was on my mind throughout the game, but at the time of the buzzer, the only thing I could actually think about was my youngest daughter, Sage. And Sage is the one that came over and said that Pop Pop would be proud. And then, you know, from there the emotion started.

Yeah, I can only imagine. At what age did you realize how much your dad and Earl the Pearl Monroe mattered around here and what Winston-Salem statement to him? That was pretty early, probably around nine, maybe ten years old.

My parents were big entertainers at the house, always having the parties, always having the cookouts. So that's really all I knew was Winston-Salem's state. And we talked to Earl before the game in the locker room, and I reminded him of meeting him when I was ten years old at a cookout in Orange, New Jersey. And I told him that they were always my dream backcourt as a young fellow. And that was kind of when I knew. I was always a fan of Earl's, but it was around that time when I kind of figured out that my father was actually a pretty good basketball player as well.

So I can say around nine or ten years old. It's Winston-Salem head coach, Winston-Salem state head coach Cleo Hill Jr. with us on Sports Hub Giant. Coach, this team was picked eighth in the preseason and hasn't won a CIAA championship in years. And this team's two years removed from winning just five games in a season. You guys were down 11 points in the final four minutes of the championship game. Now that you have a little bit of time to reflect on this, how do you want this team to be remembered, this run to be remembered?

Probably a team of destiny. And I guess it starts with myself coming to Winston-Salem State as the head basketball coach in a job that I never dreamed in a million years that I would have. Not because I wasn't qualified, but I just put Winston-Salem State as a university on such a high pedestal from my background knowing about it.

So after getting the job, it's about accountability. Knowing Earl since ten years old and knowing my father was a pretty good basketball player around the same time, it wasn't too far after that that I met Coach Gaines at a function around twelve years old. Anybody that knows Coach Gaines, he has such a deep voice and such a profound aura about himself that it sounds like you're talking to God when I was talking to him. And he became my mentor once I became a head coach. We had many talks about life and coaching. So I knew upon taking the job that you would have to have thick skin, that the legend of Clarence Big House Gaines and Erwin Roll and Cleo Hill, and amongst others as well, that championships was definitely a part of what you signed up for, whether it's conference championships or national championships. Greatness was the expectation as well as graduating a student-athlete. So it always it's a lot coming with this job. And if you're not prepared for all of that, you don't take the job. And I was I was prepared to take on those challenges. I think it's just fitting you guys start the year with with a friendly, an exhibition against North Carolina, and you hear Coach Williams talking about what Coach Gaines meant to him and how much respect he had for Coach Gaines.

And what you're saying, I think, rings true with the standard that should be set at Winston-Salem State. I just got to know, Coach, how do you celebrate after that game? Well, before the game, I think it might have been the day before, maybe Friday after beating Claflin, the coaches got together and said, look, we have a real good chance of winning this game tomorrow.

Let's think positive. And when we win, we are all going to go to the outside pool of the hotel. And as coaches, we're going to jump into the water, which was below 10 degrees at the time. So that that was our celebration. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't think my coaches were going to remember.

So I stayed quiet. We got to the hotel and my assistant coach, Coach Bethel, said, let's go now. I said, where? The pizza's getting ready to come. Where are we going? We said we were going to jump in if we want. So let's jump.

And they started going outside and phones started turning on. And that's how we celebrate it. Oh, my goodness. Well, that's fantastic. Coach, that win meant a lot to a lot of people around here. And it was great to see continued success.

We hope it and we'll continue to follow you guys. Thanks for the visit. Thanks a lot. I appreciate you. You got it.

That is Cleo Hill Jr. from Winston-Salem State, CIA champs from over the weekend. Something I saw this weekend reminded me of Kobe and MJ. I'll tell you what that was next on the drive. Let's avoid that.

So please keep it to yourself. Just know that you're on the drive with Josh Graham. It's March. And for the first time this year, North Carolina looked like North Carolina against Syracuse. Cole Anthony was tremendous. The Tar Heels shared the ball better than they have at any point this year. And this is the month that has to happen for the Tar Heels, specifically next week in Greensboro, where eight days from the start of the ACC tournament in these parts. And I don't think it's impossible for North Carolina to win it all next week. I really don't, which means their NCAA tournament chances aren't exactly dead yet. The Tar Heels are in dead last in the ACC standings. They got their fifth conference win of the year on Saturday.

But here's the case for North Carolina. Cole is learning to close games, which is something you just can't know how to do until you actually do it. And I understand he's a lottery pick, excellent player, hit big shots against Notre Dame.

But when he came back from injury, missing a month and a half, he wasn't very efficient. Three of the first four games, he shot 36 percent or less from the field. In the last five games for North Carolina, he's 49 percent or better in every single one. The NC State game, it was a turning point for Cole and for UNC. It was a relief to have a lead at the end of the game, even though NC State cut it to three and made things dramatic the same way Virginia did, Notre Dame did, Georgia Tech did, Boston College did, Duke did, and the leads got away from them and they ultimately lost those games. North Carolina closed things out.

There was a relief sweeping throughout the Smith Center when that happened. The chemistry between Garrison Brooks and Cole Anthony, it's improved greatly and it's been a massive difference maker. See, it hasn't just happened the last two games.

North Carolina, they closed out against NC State and they built off that against Syracuse. But just look at the last five games for Garrison where he's close to averaging a double-double over the five game stretch. He's had at least 20 points and five rebounds in the last five games.

Christian Keeling, he looked like the player we thought he was going to be coming to the Tar Heels from Charleston Southern. He's averaging 13 points a game in the last eight. Now, we don't know if he even knows what the three-point line is. He said he hit a three and he was surprised he was beyond the three-point line against the pack.

But putting that aside, that's not a small sample size. He's playing pretty well right now. And we've seen crazier things happen in Conference Tournament Week. Remember UConn in 2011? Tenth in the Big East standings.

They had to play on Tuesday. They weren't going to make the tournament unless they won a couple games in the Big East field that year. Kemba Walker and company won five straight games and the latter four were against ranked teams. They won the Big East tournament that year.

North Carolina, they have a lottery pick who's playing his best ball right now. They won it Syracuse convincingly, and that's not an easy place to win. Beat Oregon, which is about as good of a win as anybody in the bottom five or six of the ACC standings has all year long. And the ACC, how many ranked teams would North Carolina have to go through in order to win the tournament?

They wouldn't have to face one on Tuesday or Wednesday. You probably would on Thursday, assuming that Virginia continues its success. They're ranked in the top 25 now.

So you probably play a ranked team on Thursday, maybe play another on Friday and another on Saturday. So it's one less ranked team than UConn had to run into and we've seen the unevenness all year long. Florida State with the Clemson lost. Clemson this year has beaten the Seminoles, Louisville, Duke, North Carolina in Chapel Hill. What opponent is unbeatable for North Carolina? Presents the worst matchup for the Tar Heels because they had Florida State dead the rights on the road in Tallahassee.

They had Duke in the worst possible predicament they could be in twice. Louisville, that was the one convincing game North Carolina had against the top tier of the ACC, but that was played in the Yum Center. If the Tar Heels have any level of success in Greensboro, the crowd's going to be behind them. Most of the people who are going to the Coliseum, I'd imagine, are going to be Tar Heel fans. The biggest cut of that pie is going to be Tar Heel fans that Tuesday and if they win that Wednesday and so on and so forth. I don't think North Carolina fans have completely given up hope. So I'm not here saying it's going to happen, but I'm not ruling it out today because North Carolina is playing its best ball right now. They are looking like the team we thought was going to be the second best team in the ACC in the preseason poll.

Your thoughts are welcome on Twitter at sportsuptry at 336-777-1600 is the phone number. Talby Smith, High Point head basketball coach, going to join us in a little over five minutes. Robert Walsh, though, said something crazy in Let's Get Crazy a short while ago, though. He said that Waka Flocka Flame, the rapper, isn't a wack rapper. The reason that was brought up, I don't know who to give credit to here, Robert, but Waka Flocka Flame gave an interview where he was talking about his rap in a way that seemed about as honest as anything I've ever heard from somebody in that industry.

Here's that sound. I want to figure out how can I become a billionaire and a multimillionaire off of business because I did it with rap. I was a wack rapper. Like, I knew I was wack, but I was real.

See what I'm saying? My realness overcame my wackness. His realness overcame his wackness. But I think most people agree with Waka that he is a wack rapper. Like, his music is ridiculous.

It incited violence, I think, in some cases about a decade ago. Like, it was a very weird time when his music was hitting, but Robert, he went out there and said that his music actually is more profound than you think, that he is not wack by any means. So I challenged Robert to find one of his songs that he finds to be profound, to be not wack, and just simply read the lyrics. I'm not going to expect you to rap here.

I just want you to play the instrumental for a song and to read the lyrics. Robert, take it away. It's a party, it's a party, it's a party, yeah. It's a party, it's a party, it's a party. My partner on the pill and my other partner's drunk. Rolling up that loud, I'm about to get messed up because it's a party, it's a party, it's a party. It's a party, it's a party, it's a party. I deserve what just happened a second ago. I decided to take a sip of water right as he was starting that, and I did not expect you in a deadpan voice to say, Flaca.

Flaca. Not bad. I just wasn't ready for it, and there's just water dispersed all across the studio. I missed that, I was reading the lyrics. But I don't think his music incited any more violence than like, Nuck If You Buck. Oh yeah, Nuck If You Buck's gonna get people in a fight. But I mean, you're right.

Some of his songs do have that almost omnipotent presence to just like, as soon as they come on, just snatch every single person in that party and make them party at the same time. Listen to me. If anybody in the Greensboro Coliseum, anybody who works is going to be working with the ACC tournament, here's my voice right now. Nuck If You Buck needs to be prominently featured at the ACC tournament. It is an ACC tradition in these parts, like North Carolina at key spots in the game.

They mix in some Nuck If You Buck at the Smith Center. And I'm here to tell you, last year in Charlotte, the championship game is about to be played. It's Duke and Florida State. I see the DJ. I walk up to him.

This is probably about 30 to 45 minutes before Duke plays Florida State. I say to the guy, you got Nuck If You Buck? He goes, no. I'm like, well, you probably should. It's a big deal here for the ACC, especially the ACC media. We're all about it.

So he says, I'll see what I can do. They announced the starting lineups. And as the players are walking on the floor, the music that starts playing is, you guessed it, Crime Mob's Nuck If You Buck. And I looked across to press row and I just see eight, nine, maybe 10 Caucasian men who looked like they couldn't contain themselves and were about to jump on the floor and act a fool. Yeah, that's the one song that if you're downtown and that song comes on and you're not with your friends, you need to find them because someone will get in a fight. So that song will come on and instantly all the beef, all the animosity, all the hatred comes to the surface and it just boils up and people just start swinging.

It's scary. On Twitter at Sports Hub Triad, is there a better example of a song that people act the fool during than Crime Mob's Nuck If You Buck or something by Waka Flocka? The great Tubby Smith is going to join the show next on the drive. It is March, which means tournaments are getting set to go all across college basketball. The women's tournament in Greensboro for the ACC will take hold tomorrow. I'm looking at High Point's basketball schedule.

High Point is going to be playing USC Upstate tomorrow night in the Big South tournament. And I'm going to start things off with a stat here. There are nine active D1 head coaches who have won national championships in all of college basketball. Tony Bennett last year, of course, Jay Wright before that, Roy Williams, Coach K, John Calipari, Bill Self, Jim Boeheim, Tom Izzo, and our next guest, home to the Triad, High Point's Tubby Smith. I know you don't need much of an introduction, Coach, but I gave you one anyway.

How's it going? Well, you watching the box scores hasn't gone as well as we'd hoped, but then again, you know, we chose to build this program with young players, young, talented people from the region and from the area. So I'm not, again, I'm not as disappointed as I would be if this was an upper class group like it was last year. We've squeaked out 16 wins last year. We've squeaked out nine this year, and we played probably the toughest schedule in the history of High Point basketball.

So we, again, there's a bright future ahead of us, let's put it that way. When you're out on the recruiting trail, how often is the selling point, including, hey, I've coached the very best in college basketball, or just to make it simpler, how often do you wear the national championship ring when you're out and about? Very seldom do I wear it, but I'll probably have to put it on once we get on the recruiting trail this year to remind people when you're nine and 22, they can be probably thinking, can this guy coach at all?

Does he? But we've had to restore some to the program, and I think that's getting back to the youthfulness that we have in the new facility. So it's not tough, because we've done it the right way over the years. We've been in the business, as you mentioned before, one of nine coaches to win the national championship. Actually, I've got to get some assistant coaches that can help me.

No, just kidding. I've got a great staff, and they're doing a fantastic job, and we just need to get a little more depth, because we're losing three players this year. We have two seniors with one left earlier in the season, so I think we're going to be okay. As you mentioned, though, you're not accustomed to losing more than 20 games in a season, but it's kind of been that year in basketball, not just college, but pro. Steve Kerr, he has all these losses with Golden State.

Roy Williams, we see him down the road. He seems like after games he wants to pull his hair out. The women's game, Muffet McGraw having a tough year at Notre Dame. So how have you been handling it? Has it taken time to allow for perspective to set in? No, not really, because you're so busy trying to get players better. We've played better recently. We lost a couple tough ones. We lost by eight the other day. We lost by four to Asheville. We lost by three to Longwood, and we had a chance to win all those games. That would have put us three more wins.

That would give us 12 wins, 12-13 wins, and give us some momentum. But even at that, we know that we're the youngest team in the league. We know that we're starting three freshmen, two sophomores. None of the sophomores started a game last year. Rob Peterson and Kade Sanchez, but they've been giving it their all, and they're going to be better because they have played every game this year. It's High Point head basketball coach Tubby Smith with us here. His Panthers going to face USC Upstate Spartans tomorrow in the Big South tournament. It's a seven o'clock tip on the road, but I'm just so glad you ended up connected to this area at High Point in the first place. As I think many of our listeners know, you attended High Point College back in the 70s, and it's cool that you're back in coaching here the last handful of years, but how close were you to not going to High Point, instead playing for Lefty Drizell and Maryland?

Well, Keith Gatlin, who's on my staff play for Coach Drizell and Lefty, that was his first year. That spring I was going, I pretty much made up my mind I was going to be going to Maryland, but that happens in life. You see it all the time now. It's more publicity surrounding coaches' departures or new coaches coming in, but with the transfer portal and coaches being able to move left and right, people just don't have the patience. But again, we're happy to be at High Point. It was probably the best thing that happened to me. I met my wife here 44, 46 years ago, 47 years ago, so it's been great to get back to High Point. Our campus is exploding. It's one of the premier universities in the country, and what Dr. Cobain has done here has just been remarkable.

It's nothing short of sensational. So we're excited about the new facility that will be on board that's coming online next year. So there are a lot of positive things happening here, even though we've struggled to win games. It's been a fun season as far as seeing the growth and development of our youngsters. You mentioned how rules have changed over the years, and one of the things you noted was the transfer portal.

What do you think of the new transfer rules that are being discussed within the NCAA offices right now, the one-time transfer being something that allows for guys to transfer without having to sit out a year? I don't know. I remember I said something.

I made a comment about it when I was in Memphis. Well, what are we teaching kids how to quit? And they were upstairs, Coach, you leave. I said, yeah, I get fired too. You know, hey, I've been fired.

And I said, have you been fired? So I, you know, I remember saying if that's where we want to go, that's the direction you want to do. Pay student athletes. You know, let them transfer, free agency, but even the NBA has a deadline, you know, when you have to, and then they have to give up certain things. I don't mind, I don't mind a kid transferring to Power Five school. Just compensate us for the loss of that scholarship. See what I mean? And that's fair.

You know, you're making, you know, we're all making a lot of money. Power Five schools, if they want to, I think if a kid transfers some high points to a Power Five school, then we should be compensated. The university should be, you know, and that's, that's just my, I don't mind. That's just the way it is.

I mean, we had three kids last year, two years, ones at Purdue now and ones at Fullerton, Cal State Fullerton. Then we get some mutual agreement. That's what they want to do. That's fine. I'm not, I'm not for the one time transfer, but it's coming anyway. And it's, and it's the one, and they still have to meet all the, you know, all the transfer qualifications. You know, you got to be eligible here.

You've got to be in good standing at the university leaving and so forth and so on. I just think it's, I think if a kid is moving to a, from a Power Five school to a non-Power Five school, it might be easier. But, but you might see, just look at the guys that left out programs here in this Big South that are playing at other Power Five schools. And that's where they're, and I've been at those schools, Texas Tech, Minnesota, Kentucky, Georgia. So it's, it's going to be something interesting that's coming. Telly Smith with us here, High Point head basketball coach. His Panthers tomorrow are going to be in action in the Big South tournament.

But I want to end things on a high note here. You grew up on a farm, our producer grew up on a farm, but he didn't have 16 brothers and sisters. See, you, you played college ball at High Point College. So I got to know, who's the best athlete of you and your 16 brothers and sisters?

Ooh, that's a good question. I had a, I had a younger brother who played professional baseball and he was, but he's about as talented as William Smith. He's, and he played for the Yankee organization, never made it to the big league, but he's probably the best athlete in the family. All right.

Good to know. My mom was the best athlete, to put it that way. There's the right answer right there.

The mom always the best. Well, hey coach, let's not make it 23 losses tomorrow. Let's get a win in the Big South tournament. I know you're turning things around. Sometimes it just takes a little bit of time to do so. It's good to hear your voice. Best of luck. Thank you. Appreciate it. You got it.

That is Tubby Smith, High Point head coach joining us for a bit. If you have 17 kids, does that make you the best athlete in the family, Robert? Like, as a parent who has that many children, an athlete, is that a sport when you start getting into Phillip River's range, Octomom territory? I don't know if I would call that a skill. I mean, not a skill.

I don't know if you would call them the best athlete, but definitely the best child rearer. I'm not sure. It does take a toll on your body, physical. For sure. He referenced some comments he had at the University of Memphis. I think what's newsworthy that people might actually take from that interview, Tubby Smith talking about the one time transfer proposal that the NCAA is looking at. The ACC said they're about it. They want to have athletes with more freedom and opportunity to transfer without having to sit out a year. Tubby, you just heard him say, if a player transfers from High Point to a Power Five school, we should be compensated for that scholarship the university should be. But I forgot about the comments he had at Memphis a few years ago.

They do stick out. And it's one of those quotes that I think people were split on. You have a large faction of the audience that is old school and thinks, yeah, these athletes aren't as tough as we were and we're teaching them how to quit. And then the other side, a little bit more progressive people thinking, OK, well, these athletes aren't getting paid. These coaches, they can leave and go wherever they want. Sure, they could be fired, but athletes, they can lose their scholarships in theory to year to year.

And it just doesn't seem right to minimalize them this way. Robert, do we have this sound? This is Tubby Smith back when he was at Memphis. Well, we'll talk to him. Kids have a lot of options nowadays with the new NCAA regulations and guys can transfer when they want. I've been in this business a long time. Never seen like we had 800 Division 1 players transfer last year, over 800. Come on, teach them how to quit.

That's what we're doing. Things not going well, let's quit. I remember calling my dad when I was a freshman, High Point College. Dad, I'm this and that, I'm unhappy here. I was one with two blacks in the whole school.

Dad, he said, son, somebody do something to you? No. You're still getting your scholarship, aren't you? They're still feeding you.

They're still housing you, still getting education? I said, yes, sir. So you can't come home. Your bed's been taken.

This is 1968, 69, but you can join the Army. Best thing he ever said to me. So that's who I am. And so when I see this reaction about Max exit, exit, it is what it is.

Yeah, so that's Tubby Smith. And I can already hear people agreeing with him word for word with that. But I think this goes back to how you view college athletics. If you think it's a business. Then you're not going to have an issue with this.

You're not going to have an issue with the one time transfer. If you view it as something that is probably just short of professional sports, which I'm here to shatter your world. If you don't believe that it is it is a meat market in a lot of ways. It is very close to professional sports. The results really do matter. Right.

Then. Please spare me all the stuff about building guys and building these athletes, right? Like we're here for the entertainment value.

We're here because we we view it in markets like this. When we didn't have professional sports, when we didn't have the Hornets, when we didn't have the Panthers, when we didn't have the hurricane. We had the college team and it mattered so much. And the results, they do matter. Right.

Like. There are people who believe that college basketball will be ruined if athletes make things, make money off their likeness, make money from the school or whatever. I never really thought that way. There was a time where the Olympic athletes didn't make anything.

And they said no one would watch the Olympics if these guys were no longer amateurs. And of course, it was wronged. So I struggle to agree with the sentiment of Tubby Smith in the past. But it does seem. Tubby is progressing and thinking, hey, if we're going to view it as a business, then let's treat it like a business. If we're going to have a great. Power five level player at high point and somebody poaches him away like free agency almost, then we should be compensated by that.

I don't know if that's what Tubby wants to see happening based on the way he said it just there. But it does seem like. This is the coach's argument in response to players saying, oh, it's a business coaches, they could go wherever they want. So why not us? You know, there has to be some consequence paid. If not by the player, then maybe the university.

And if everybody's making money all across the place, then why not do it? Tomorrow, Mac Brown's going to be with us. I'm interested in his thoughts on the one time transfer rule.

We'll talk to him about Duke Carolina as well and what's going on with spring practice. A quick show update. Robert. I accepted your ridiculous proposal that because I was sick one day last week, I had to keep the Christmas lights on my car with the root off the red nose, reindeer nose and the deer antlers and the the elf legs hanging out the back of the trunk. Today's the last day. Tomorrow, you and the kids are going to take this thing off my car. That's what's going to happen. I think the kids are going to be very upset by that, Josh. Look at their little faces. You don't want to do that to them. Hey, kids, bleep off. So I say to you, all of you sitting there.

Poor kid. Yeah. I was driving around Winston on Saturday night, having dinner with Darren Vaught, who broadcast High Point.

And I parked my car parallel parked it in downtown Winston and right in front of one of the bars, I think on Trade Street. So guy is like, I can't hear what he's saying, but he grabbed like the person next to him visibly and started pointing and laughing at my car. And Chick-fil-A workers are just roasting me in the drive through line. It's brutal, man. It's been brutal. I hate it. Robert, what do you got and take it to the house? Similar to a superhero. When you don a mask, you put yourself in peril's way. All right. We take it to the house next.