Wake hires Steve Forbes

This is The Drive with Josh Graham Podcast. Tune in to The Drive weekday afternoons 3 to 7 on Sports Hub Triad. I'm just gonna be honest on this one and if he ends up being Wake Forest's coach I know this is probably gonna be awkward.

He's the one candidate. I just don't understand it as a fit for Wake Forest. Winners now of 12 in a row. They're gonna go into the NCAA tournament riding a lot of momentum. Buccaneers are gonna take home their 9th Southern Conference tournament crown. 72 to 58 your final score.

Celebration here in Asheville and back in Johnson City, Tennessee. Forbes. He's a coach's coach.

People in the industry, they respect him a ton. I just don't see the fit. I don't know where we fit in the history of ETSU basketball but I know this.

If there's a Mount Rushmore, we're on it. I think, I think it would be a mistake for Wake Forest to choose Forbes. He's the only one I look at and say, I just don't get it. A lot to like about ETSU in terms of their depth, their guard play, their ability to score both in transition and on the half court. And when they make three balls like they did, especially in the first half, yeah nobody's going to want to play Steve Forbes' team. And also this year, Steve Forbes, it would have been his second NCAA tournament. Steve Forbes not getting that job.

SteveForbes.com. You're always talking your country ass, country talk. So I'm going to give you a chance to speak today.

What do you have to say to the country? Yeah, I didn't think it was a fit. And apparently West Durham didn't either.

Good digging on your part, Robert. But Steve Forbes is in fact the Deac's new basketball coach and here's why. Our country is in a time of crisis right now.

Basketball has been a problem for Wake Forest for the better part of the last decade. And when you're in crisis, you lean on loved ones and you lean on people you trust. John Curry simply hired the candidate that he trusted most. I believe the pandemic simplified this search for John.

No flights that I know of, all the interviews done on Zoom. And based on the information I've gathered, it was either Wes or Forbes. Either Wes or Forbes all along.

He might have tipped his hand at this during his press conference last Saturday. This was Curry when he was asked about the type of candidate he might be looking for. You know, if you look at our history, if you think about, you know, during this last few weeks, we lost Carl Tacey. I don't know how big of a name Carl Tacey was when he was hired at Wake Forest. We had coaches like Dave Odom, who was an assistant, who at the time had a losing record as a head coach when we hired him at Wake Forest. Skip Prosser, Dave Odom, excuse me, Dave Clawson, Jim Grove, you know, those were all coaches who came to Wake Forest and flourished.

So we'll cast a wide net knowing that this is a very, very special opportunity with tons of advantages. And I know that there are a number of coaches out there who will be very desirous of this particular job and opportunity. When he mentioned Tacey and Prosser and Clawson and Grove, I think the person that was on his mind in that spot was Forbes, maybe also Wes Miller as well. But I think from an affordability standpoint, those are two of the only guys he probably could have gotten for less than what they were paying Danny Manning around $3 million a year. I don't think Thad Motta was in this conversation very long. If he was, it was briefly.

Just think about it. Curry, he could have contacted him before any of this happened. Nothing would have restricted him from doing so. It wasn't like Thad Motta was coaching in college basketball last year. So he could have reached out before last Saturday. I struggled to believe he would have made a move on Danny and acted this quickly without having a pool of candidates in mind. I think he kicked the tires on Thad. And if you're Motta, you're just thinking, two years ago, I turned down Georgia, big public school, SEC, $3.2 million reportedly.

He turned it down and he told Jeff Goodman it was because he was looking for the perfect situation. He wasn't ready to dive back in just yet. Well, Wake Forest, it would have been less than $3 million based on everything that we've seen out there. And also, it's not an ideal circumstance during a pandemic to take a job when you don't have a chance to see much of a spring recruiting cycle.

You're already going to be behind. You don't know if there's going to be any AAU basketball during the summer. So I could see Motta saying, just no thanks on that.

No thanks on that. All along, Goodman had Wes and Forbes at the front of the line. Goodman, he's going to join us in 10 minutes and we'll ask him every question that you might have, every question that we have right now, both on this hire Wake Forest made and the subsequent headline that John Curry doesn't think he's going to pay $15 million to Danny. He doesn't think Wake has to because of some criteria in the contract. Before I react to that headline though, I just want to know what specifically Wake Forest might be looking at.

And I think Jeff might have some more insight on that. But keeping it with Forbes, Wes, he might've been the better fit than Forbes, geographically speaking, ties to Wake Forest, a candidate fans, I think most wanted, but Forbes, he's the better coach. X's and O's wise, track record wise, Forbes was better than Wes. That isn't to say he's always going to be. Wes is only 37 years old, but Forbes checks a box that every single candidate that's been hired at Wake Forest and the last 31 years checks.

And it's also a box that Wes can't check right now. And that's Power Six Conference experience. Even though Forbes wasn't a head coach at Tennessee, he was there for a very long time. He was the point man for Bruce Pearl. They were a national contender at that time.

He's done more winning in the last five years in the same conference than Wes, but Power Six experience, I think is an important thing. Dave Odom, he was a long time assistant for Terry Holland at Virginia. Skip Prosser was at Xavier. Looking down the list, Dino Gaudio, he was right there every step of the way with Skip. Jeff Bizdelic, he was a head coach at Colorado. Danny Manning, long time assistant at Kansas. So he checks that box.

Forbes does. Wes did not. I think that made a difference. This is the most important hire of John Curry's career. Looking at his time, eight years at Kansas State, his brief stint at Tennessee, I think this is the most important one because it's his alma mater for one. This is the hire he was brought in to make. The moment he stepped foot on campus in Winston-Salem again, he was being asked about Danny. This was the hire he was brought in to make. It's his first coaching search since that fiasco in Knoxville, he hires the assistant from Ohio State whose name slips me right now, who was at Rutgers all those years as a head coach. There's the Phil Fulmer side of that story where maybe he undercut him, maybe he did not. I personally think something happened there, and I think a lot of people agree with me on that.

Then there's the pandemic side of this. Wake Forest being the only Power 6 program to make a change of head coach during this off season, which attracted a lot of attention. The college basketball world was watching what John Curry and Wake Forest were going to do here. And when your back's against the wall, when you're in a time of crisis, you lean on the people that you trust. And since the pandemic simplified things where you're not flying, you're doing Zoom calls, I think John had less opportunity to get to know Wes, less opportunity to get to know some of the guys who might have been on lists like Amaker or Kelsey or even Ryan Odom. His relationship at Tennessee, those two together overlapping for three years, I think was the difference maker.

And we can all relate to that. When the chips are down, you're going to go with the people you trust most. Curry trusts that Steve Forbes is the right fit. On Twitter, at Sports Hub Triad, if you'd like to chime in.

336-777-1600 be in the phone number. Here's the information I trust the most. From the last 20 hours.

Motto is only in this briefly. Wes Miller, I don't know for sure if he would have taken the job if he was offered it. He wasn't out, but I don't know if he was completely in. I know he fell out of the conversation yesterday. I think he wanted to be sold a little bit. But if it was Curry's preference, I believe the preference to be Forbes. As for Odom, I don't really think he was a serious candidate. You don't buy out a coach for a 16 and 17 coach in the American East last year.

You just don't. So I happen to believe he wasn't really serious here. It's good his name was thrown out there. Maybe it was a favor to the Odom family.

I think Odom's going to be a really good coach one day, but I don't think he was a really serious candidate here. So that's the information I've gathered in the last 20 hours. We got, Les Johns is going to join us in about 40 minutes, but the guy who's been breaking most of this news over and over 40 minutes, but the guy who's been breaking most of this news over the last week is Jeff Goodman from stadium. He's going to fill in a lot of the blanks that we have, not just on the Steve Forbes hire, but also the Danny Manning side of this as well, regarding the buyout, which we've been asking about for a very long time. Jeff Goodman, one of college basketball's premier insiders joins us next. You could try getting your sports news and talk somewhere else.

My life sucks quite enough already. Thank you. Best to leave it right here on the drive with Josh Graham. Almost as fascinating as the Steve's Forbes headline today, this bombshell about Danny's buyout. Wake Forest believes it doesn't have to pay Danny Manning the $15 million he had existing on his deal. This is according to Jeff Goodman who just joined us because he failed to meet a certain criteria. He was told he feels Wake Forest or Wake Forest feels it owes Manning less than half of the 15 million, two sides could wind up going to court or settling.

Now it's very difficult for me to have a strong opinion about this because Wake is a private school. We've never had the contents of Danny's contract. We do know that he was going to get paid $3 million a year. That was his contract, 3 million a year. If he has five years left and it's all fully guaranteed, there's $15 million left on that deal last year. It was $18 million. The last time we heard from John Curry, he told me when I asked about the buyout, I don't believe any media reports or I would caution against assuming the accuracy of some of the speculation about a figure in the media.

But Goodman told us straight up, Danny and his camp, they are fully expecting 15 million. Was Curry so cagey last week because of the policy, the longstanding policy Wake Forest has, or was it because he doesn't think he's going to have to pay the 15 million? Maybe it's a little of both, but here's what I really hope. I hope this isn't dirty pool by Wake. In other words, I hope Wake isn't just trying to intimidate Danny, not wanting him to litigate, pay court costs, have things get strung out over the next few years, threaten with something damaging, something that might be embarrassing in court coming out, try to get them to accept half of the payment because Wake is in a tough financial spot because of this pandemic. I hope it's not that.

I also hope it's not Wake just trying to stall and buy time. Hey, the court's going to try and figure this out over the next few years. Hopefully by the time it gets resolved, we're not in a pandemic anymore. We're going to have improved ticket costs because we have the new head coach.

I have more time to try and get together this money, et cetera, et cetera, ACC network. We're finally going to see some of that money come in. I hope that's not the case. I'm not saying it is, but there are some serious questions that Curry has to answer here. I mean, he actually doesn't have to answer. He can hide behind that policy.

He could say that this is something ongoing, but this is such a fascinating story now that I don't know is going away. See, this is what Goodman said when I asked him about the criteria he was describing in his initial report. I've been trying to get the details of exactly what it is in the contract that they're trying to dispute. The only thing I've been told is part of it will be retention, right? All the transfers and everything like that. But a lot of that didn't affect their APR necessarily. So I don't think it's linked to APR.

I don't know all the specifics. All I know is that, again, one of the reasons why John Curry was able to make this move, because everybody was shocked at the timing, right? I mean, that was the biggest thing.

Guys have saved their jobs right now because of the pandemic. You're not going to fire a guy. But one of the reasons, one of the main reasons Curry was able to do it was because his legal team obviously told him, hey, listen, we believe we're only going to have to pay Danny Manning five, six, seven million, whatever that number is. I had a chance to chat with David Glenn earlier today, who has a big law background, who does some work with us now with the ACC Sports Journal, you know, DG.

And he made sure to ask all the necessary questions. And he, I asked about retention just a short while ago, and he said that he's never heard of anything like that. And I haven't either. With that being something a administration, an athletic department would use potentially as cause, firing somebody with cause, excuse me, it would have to be written specifically in the contract, something about retention rate, something in the extension, something in the contract. And that's very rare. I'd be surprised if that's there.

If it's not retention, then we'll continue to follow what exactly it might be. But Danny, he's universally respected for his integrity. You might not think he's a great basketball coach, but he's a damn good guy and a great gentleman.

And he's respected by everybody. This puts some of that into question. You can't help but wonder if somebody's trying to get out from underneath a $15 million buyout saying that you violated some portion of the contract. That is Wake Forest alleging Danny didn't fulfill his duties as Wake's basketball coach. So I expect Danny to fight this for no other reason than, hey, they're questioning my integrity.

They're questioning me as a coach. I bet he takes Wake to court here. I would do it. Goodman said he'd do it.

I think reasonable people would do it. Let's go to Mike in Elkin. Mike, what's your general thought about new Wake Forest coach Steve Forbes? I think he gives Wake Forest fans hope that this 10-year first day in the ACC tournament, because we are always finishing at the bottom of the ACC. We can't get to any post-season tournament, NCAA, NIP, or anything else.

It's over. That's not the Wake Forest I remember when Chris Paul was around, when Jeff Teague was around, when Rodney Rogers was around, Tim Duncan, Randolph Childress. I don't expect us to be Duke every year, but I do expect us to every couple of three years at least be in the NCAA tournament. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

I don't think so either. Thanks for the call, Mike. When you consider the run Wake Forest went on from 1990 through 2009, a 20-year stretch, two decades. The only programs in the ACC to win more than Wake Forest, Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, and actually I got it wrong, the only three programs, Duke, North Carolina, and Maryland, winning more games than Wake Forest.

Dave Odom, Skip Prosser, Dino Gaudio, they had it going. So what you're talking about is the standard for Wake, and it's clear Danny did not meet the standard that should be in place. Wake Forest, I'm not saying you make the NCAA tournament every single year, but every other year. There's no reason why you can't be in line with NC State, for example, with all due respect to the pack.

We suck. I don't think that's unreasonable. I think Forbes is a good enough X's and O's coach to have Wake Forest in a place where they can finish sixth, seventh, maybe eighth in the ACC, that general pack in the ACC every single year. You can do that consistently.

You're going to have enough resources to do so. There's enough history, recent history even, that suggests you can win with the Demon Deacons. So I like Steve Forbes as a coach. I didn't think it was the best fit just because there wasn't a direct tie other than Curry, but that can be fixed with your staff. Also, the recruiting stuff a little bit concerning too, but that's another thing. Good coaches can adapt, and you could also hire a staff that you specifically put together in order to recruit a certain way. I'm fascinated to see what the next stage, the next era, of Wake Forest basketball looks like. This being John Curry's first hire as Wake's AD. Okay, speaking of Wake history, Les Johns, Wake insider, he's reported Tim Duncan and Chris Paul were involved during Wake Forest coaching search. He will join to tell us just how they were. Next. Josh Graham loves to talk sports.

He also loves to wear itchy clothes, so he has an excuse to scratch himself. You're on the drive with Josh Graham. One of the people that have followed, one of the reporters that has followed the Wake Forest coaching search about as close as anybody is Les Johns, our good friend from DemonDeaconDigests.com. Twice reigning champion of the movie game as well. I feel like I have to throw that into his title. Les, Steve Forbes, is the new head coach of the Wake Forest Demon Deacons. Before we get specifically into him though, tell me about this report earlier today.

You and Evan Daniels of 24-7 have been on this. That Tim Duncan and Chris Paul were both involved in this coaching search. How exactly did that go down? I mean obviously that's a brilliant maneuver by Wake Forest Athletic Director John Curry. I first caught wind of that actually this morning talking with one of my sources that you know in the Zoom conference calls that they were using for some of these interviews. I guess for a couple of the key ones and at that point I have to kind of assume that means probably Steve Forbes and the other finalists for the job, Wes Miller, that you know Tim Duncan and Chris Paul were in the mix and interacting and yeah a full court press for these guys in terms of looking at the heritage and the future potential of Wake Forest basketball. When John Curry said last Saturday when I think either you or somebody else asked him about the limitations that might be in place on him trying to make a hire and he pointed to we're going to have great candidates when you go through Carl Tacey and Skip Prosser and Dave Clausen and Dave Odom sometimes they go to Wake Forest and then they flourish. Was that kind of a tip to you that somebody like Forbes or maybe even Wes Miller were already strongly entrenched in Curry's mind? You know I'm not really convinced just how set Curry was on a list of names prior to making the move. I mean I know that they moved in conjunction with the search committee you know rapidly Saturday night and Sunday to start setting up interviews. I think they narrowed their list into a set of six candidates that they were really settled on and then from sixth they went through those first interviews in the first two days, broke it down to final two, went through another set of talks with those guys and then put their dots. I don't get the impression that Curry spoke to anybody prior to the dismissal of Danny Manning on Saturday.

That obviously doesn't mean the people involved from the search firm didn't though. And you also have to take into account that that Curry and Steve Forbes know each other. They were at Tennessee for a good three years together so there was a personal relationship and the way I understand Coach Forbes is that it's not like he has any strangers anyway. I've heard lots of good things about his personality attributes and his ability to to connect with people on an individual basis, also with the kids that will be on campus, with his teammates, with his coaches and with the community at large. I think that Winston-Salem and the campus away force is going to feel the presence of Steve Forbes pretty quickly. And the press conference is going to be at 11 a.m tomorrow morning. We're excited about that. It is Les Johns with us.

He's on Twitter at Les underscore Johns. So we strongly believe that the other candidate was Wes Miller. What do you know about how strong of a candidate he was? Did he really go for it or was he kind of hesitant about it?

I don't have any indication that would tell me that he was on the outside looking in. My sources tell me that they went down to the final two candidates. They had two candidates who were interested in the job and Wake made a decision as to who they wanted to extend the offer and the first person they extended an offer to accepted. You know both are really good candidates. I mean Wes Miller's done an incredible job at UNCG. You know really turned that program around. Has a great track record, especially over the last four years. And you know Steve Forbes has done really well at ETSU too. I think the difference between the two becomes the other stops that Steve Forbes has been a part of.

He has more depth of the background. He's been in the coaching business for nearly 30 years. And you know he's had stops at Wichita State as an assistant which achieved at the highest level in the country those two years under Greg Marshall.

And he has those stops at the community college and junior college level in which he just wanted an obscene rate. So you know he has a length and depth of experience that probably is lacking in a Wes Miller for right now. No disrespect to that coach at UNCG who's doing a tremendous job right now. But I think when you compare and contrast the two it becomes pretty obvious who your best choice is right now. I'm a big fan of Wes Miller's, Steve Forbes.

And there's no reason not to be seriously. Either one of those would have been a great pick for Wake Forbes. Forbes has and I think really you look at all the candidates it what they didn't have any competition.

People getting plucked away because there was no other openings in the power six. But you're talking about the experience the wealth of it that Forbes has compared to Miller. I've often said that the thing that he has that that works against Wes is that Wes doesn't have any power six coaching experience. Every single hire Wake Forest has made the last 31 years. Dave Odom, Skip Prosser, thinking about Biz Delic, Danny Manning, Dino Gaudio. The coaches there they've all had power six coaching experience and Wes he's done a great job at UNC Greensboro.

But when you look at the wealth of experience as you noted that's something that works in Forbes favor. Before I let you go Les, what did you make of this headline regarding Danny's buyout 15 million dollars and Wake Forest trying to get out from underneath of it? I thought we were gonna play the movie game today Josh Green. What's all this hard-hitting question?

I don't understand. It's the biggest day I can think of in the history of Wake at least the last 10 years. I mean by god these things together it's crazy. That's a crazy tweet slash headline. You know so Curry told us at the press conference Saturday not to take any of the numbers that we've heard bandied about in the media did not take them as being completely accurate and I guess this you know headline story kind of you know buffers that a little bit but in a slightly different tilt. None of that really was I don't have any original reporting on that to be honest with you I've been fully entrenched in the reporting on this coaching search for the last seven days and I feel like you know it's been good stuff on Demon Deacon Digest I think the fans have been happy with what I put together on that but I don't know if I will ever be able to find out the details on that contract because Wake Forest contracts are it's a private school and they never release details perhaps if it goes to court then we'll all know but the chances are likely that there'll be a settlement way before it gets to that point. Oh I'm fascinated we'll see what happens with that Les great work today great work all week long it's good to have you back on the show buddy.

Thanks Josh anytime man y'all have a good day. Yeah you too that's Les Johns he's on twitter at les underscore johns read his stuff demon deacon digest dot com not as fun as the movie game but a lot of things are happening right now your thoughts welcome on new Wake Forest basketball coach Steve Forbes we have NFL Carolina Panthers news to get to right now Robert it seems the panthers offensive line is completely set now they sign Michael Scofield who once upon a time was an offensive lineman on the Broncos Super Bowl 50 team that beat Carolina Pat Meyer coached Scofield most recently with the LA Chargers I think he started all 16 games last year Scofield he can fill that spot at right guard so what do you think of Carolina's o-line from left to right when you know you got Russell Okun on one end on the other end you got uh Daryl Williams and you know you got Matt Paradis at center some certainty as well in adding Michael Scofield what do you think we've got hours plural to fill Robert and you are you're just gonna give me that I I think it's just an okay move they still have another guard spot they need to fill probably that's why I don't hate it there John Miller they brought in the former Louisville Cardinal they have Dennis Daley potentially they could plug in and you're putting Williams at right tackle so I think they dabbled with Moten at guard just a little bit but I I don't hate it it's definitely a smart move to get some guy in there who can start 16 games especially him having a little bit of familiarity with the left side oh did I say Daryl Williams yes Daryl Williams is a Buffalo Bill that's what I Taylor Moten is a right tackle it was a little weird I got a mixed up I'm sorry about that it happened Taylor Moten is the right tackle it happens uh they still have those two guards one guard spot to fill now yeah and they didn't attack that through the draft as much as I would think they would attack the front uh the the offensive line but yeah I don't hate it it's definitely a he's just kind of a guy to me I don't think it's going to move the needle either way I think the Panthers going to win the Super Bowl wow is it Monday already do you want to abolish yourself with that uh abolish uh whatever admonish there you go because what we're looking for there yeah abolish uh I don't know if if I'd go as far to say that the Panthers are uh mark-up-ly better than where they are right now I don't think so but it's good to fill some holes on the offensive line that that's one of the clear needs Carolina has coming out of the draft it is still as of right now linebacker offensive guard and you could probably use another corner that that's Carolina's need uh needs at this moment those three while we're on free agency uh how long until Andy Dalton is a New England Patriot that seems to be such a sure bet like New England seems to have rigged the game where we don't want Jamis because he's gonna you can't really coach somebody to not throw picks yeah you can't especially when you're downgrading in skill talent you're going from Godwin and Evans to Julian Edelman and I think some uh a Boston cream pie there you go lining up on the other side yeah in the uh in the slot maybe Taco Falls at tight end who knows Taco Fall at tight end you just throw the ball straight up into the air Jamis would still find a way to screw that up probably they're not going to sign Cam because the Patriots are the exact opposite of Cam Dalton seems like a good soul a good soldier he's got his red rifle exactly ready to go he's gonna show up dive straight into that playbook any other cliche you could say about a dude showing up redheads yeah right who else do we push to the front of the line when we're talking about redheads not just in sports but also just in American culture I think it's like you consider me a redhead correct I think we were both considered red the longer my hair gets the redder it looks Robert for sure is a redhead as well but who do we push to the front of the group representing I'm not gonna say gingers no please that's derogatory honestly also it's just played out we're how old is that South Park and that was like a YouTube video where the kid said like we got souls it's so old goodness 20 years old probably I think us redheads we need somebody at the front of our line it's a dying breed like back then it was Ron Howard which was the joke in the South Park episode but I think we've gotten a lot better where we can claim Ron Weasley yeah we have Sean White Sean White and we have Carrot Top Ed Sheeran there you go these are guys we could throw in there Emma Stone what's up she changes her hair too much Jessica Chastain okay killed Bin Laden in Zero Dark 30 that's a really good thing to have on your resume like I'd take Jessica Chastain over Steve Forbes if I'm being honest today and Steve Forbes he's he's one two SoCon champion just the last five years Jessica Chastain killed Bin Laden in a movie Prince Harry's a ginger oh yeah we got a royal prince yeah right that's what we got does Blake Griffin count sure Canelo Alvarez we got him oh yeah yeah yeah boom redheads we're a proud people redheads you are listening to WSJS Winston-Salem WCOG Greensboro WPCM Burlington WMFR High Point those signals together make up Sports Hub Triad this is Breaking News all throughout the day regarding Wake Forest basketball 8 a.m this morning Steve Forbes is the choice from East Tennessee State to replace Danny Manning then we learn that apparently Wake Forest is going to try and get from underneath the 15 million dollar buyout for Danny and there's a chance they might be going to court in order to do so then we get a video of Curry with Forbes in the practice gym both wearing medical masks and it ends in a way that we never would have imagined a Wake basketball coach finishing a video in the last decade taking off a medical mask and spiking it into the ground and yelling let's go Deeks let's get it Deacon Nation all that stuff now we have this in the last 10 minutes Evan Daniels he reports from 24 7 that Ishmael Massoud is going to join Jacobi Neath going to join Chaundi Brown among those who have entered the NCAA transfer portal to help make sense of everything that's going on and quite a bit is going on Connor O'Neill now joining us from the Winston-Salem journal certainly qualifies as a Wake Forest insider I feel like we've been talking too much about fit talking too much about uh storyline who's the better candidate this guy or this guy sources and all the rest let's actually talk about hoops a bit what style of play should we expect to see based on the way Forbes rant East Tennessee State um man I thought we were going to be talking about the guys in the portals and I was going to be able to tell you something about Ishmael Massoud but I guess I'll confirm what Evan Daniels said if you want that oh oh how about I just do that as a tease that's the thing we do in the broadcast business let me let me just sit on that for a second after Connor finishes his answer here I'm gonna ask him something about the transfer portal make sure to stick around um I can I can tell you that after I think it was about 20 minutes all in all on the phone with Steve Forbes he did not mention the phrase hang our hats on defense but it's going to be a much better defensive team than what Wake fans have been watching for six years now um you know it's Steve Forbes wants aggressive athletic wings um and three-point shooters you know it's you look at you look at all levels of basketball at this point and how many teams that win you know do it without at least a couple three-point shooters on the court at the same time to spread the floor and make threes it's it's really pretty simple threes and layups so so if you're probably done seeing a bunch of contested twos taken at Joel Coliseum which at Joel Coliseum which is probably also good news yeah if Deacon players are wearing hats going into the Joel Coliseum where will they hang them if not on defense not a serious question I teased the Ishmael Masoud note you might have what do you have there yeah I can confirm what Evan said uh he followed up his initial tweet that Ishmael Masoud is entering the portal with um he's I can't remember the specific way he phrased it but he's open to coming back um you know I'm gonna sound a little like uh Kramer here with his levels talk but you know there are levels to the portal and the level that Sean D Brown is is in the portal is not the same level that Jacoby Neath and Ishmael Masoud are in uh Neath and Masoud even though they entered at different times and you know Neath entered before there was a coach and Masoud entered uh four hours after having a zoom meeting with new coach um I'm told both of them are open to return um you know honestly uh you could you could state the case now just based on the surface and what I told you about three-point shooters that Masoud probably would make a better fit for the Steve Forbes style of three-point shooting I mean that kid I would uh he's he's got about the form of a shot that I would pay money just to watch dude in an empty gym by himself it's he's a very confident and very fluid three-point shooter follow him on twitter at Connor O'neill WSJ he is the Wake Forest Beat reporter for the Winston-Salem Journal okay so you just had a chance to speak with Steve Forbes on a conference call press conference is tomorrow with John Curry present as well what uh was your biggest takeaway from the conference call you just had he's got energy man I mean you know that's that's probably not breaking news for anybody that's paid attention to Soton or or even saw 47 second video posted to twitter earlier today but he's he's really you know I said uh to anybody that would listen um I don't even want to put a put a time frame on how long I've been saying but this whoever this coach was going to be needed to inject some life instantly into this fan base you couldn't just have an announcement have it break um and and not have the instant energy pumped back into this fan base I mean yeah this is like like like you've talked about like I've said this is the the program with a 14,665 feet arena that averaged 69.04 this year you just you had to get somebody that has some life to them has some some nerve to to steal a K K-ism but and I think in that light this is the perfect tire because Steve Forbes is already fired up and ready to get going what most interests you about the Danny headline today is is there a possibility that this might be Wake Forest trying to signal to Danny listen we're willing to go to court here unless you're willing to just take half of this we won't go to court if you just settle for half yeah I think so as I as I put up I don't know if the end goal here is to win or if the end goal I'm inclined to think is just to drag it out so you don't have to pay the full figure up front and if you if you drag it through a year or two then you're talking about getting a year or two's worth of revenue from the NC from the ACC network you're talking about when things get back to normal you know if we're back to normal in the fall you're talking about getting a you know even just the revenue from from a Notre Dame game in Charlotte at Bank of America Stadium could do a little more than drop put a put a drop in the bucket of paying off your former basketball coach now so you know I think I think I agree with what you were saying earlier your producer Robert was filling me in that I've never heard of a coach getting fired for not being able to retain players and and that being a four cause reason four cause to me means somewhere from player abuse to NCAA violations to sexual misconduct well let me actually play that let me actually play that answer for you and get your reaction to it this was Jeff Goodman just a few hours ago mentioning what what he was told about what the criteria might be what he was alluding to in his tweet I've been trying to get the details of exactly what it is in the contract that they're trying to dispute the only thing I've been told is part of it will be retention right all the transfers and everything like that but a lot of that didn't affect their APR necessarily so I don't think it's linked to APR I don't know all the specifics all I know is that again one of the reasons why John Curry was able to make this move because everybody was shocked at the timing right because everybody was shocked at the timing right I mean that was the biggest thing you know guys have saved their jobs right now because of the pandemic you're not going to fire a guy but one of the reasons one of the main reasons Curry was able to do it was because his legal team obviously told him hey listen we believe you're only going to have to we're only going to have to pay Danny Manning five six seven million whatever that number is. How do you think this is as a look though do you think it's coincidental hey this this headline's released right after Wake Forest found their basketball coach? Yeah I think I think there's probably something to that the let me put it this way the the tweet from from Jeff today did not come as a complete shock to me that's something that I've kind of heard through back channels I was never able to to put it as as well sourced as Jeff obviously is but that wasn't necessarily a complete shock the shock for me is is that you would be able to get out of a buyout for a percentage just because of player retention not that I'm very familiar with coach contracts but I've never heard of that. Well I talked to Dan I talked to David Glenn earlier today and he has a law background and he's been covering the ACC for 30 years college sports for a very long time he said he never heard about that with yeah he said he's never heard of that either never heard of that unless there is a specific clause a specific paragraph in a contract that says that hey you need to have this type of retention rate this type of graduation rate it's gray area and you have to meet a pretty high bar in order for a court to rule that you can fire somebody with calls so I would say if this does go to court Les Johns is with us earlier in the show he thinks they're gonna find some type of an agreement some type of settlement before we get that far it's it's unlikely that Wake Forest would have if it's talking about retention rate that would be something that they they would get a favorable ruling it it would be unlikely but again none of us have the contract language so it's really hard to say for sure. It's Connor O'Neill with us here from the Winston-Salem Journal tell me now that this thing's over and we know that Steve Forbes is the coach what's the craziest thing you've been told this week something that you couldn't substantiate put and uh put on the record put in the Winston-Salem Journal what's the craziest thing you've been told during this process? Oh man uh you know that one already uh I think anybody that follows me on twitter looked at my retweets on what was a Tuesday night knows that the the the name that I had heard that nobody else was talking about that's that's an important distinction here at least for me was that Chris Collins was at least being discussed um you know he got Northwestern to the tournament their first ever in 2017 everybody remembers that and he's been really bad since then uh culminating in an eight and 23 season this year which Danny Manning never never was that bad uh I guess to say that one was uh you know I should have fleshed it out more and I shouldn't have said it on the radio it caused a minor twitter meltdown and message board meltdown and um people coming for me today with receipts but you know whatever I had the information and that name fit the criteria that they were looking for so I put it out there um I'll own that and now and I'll also own the fact that I said Forbes and Miller were no longer in consideration and then come to find out that they were pretty much the two finalists yeah uh a lot of misinformation happens during all of this I mean I was hearing Darlington talk about the draft last week Jeff Darlington and he said he knew he was putting out things that weren't true but it was sourced people it was people he trusted people you could rely on and uh they purposefully steered him from something he believed and even said knew to be true at times it's just hard to figure it out but Connor I think your track record speaks for itself though you've done a lot uh during this coaching search you've done a lot during football and basketball uh and it's good to have you on the show as always I'm sure I'll see you tomorrow on the virtual press conference I'll be sure to to have another college shirt on and maybe I think I need to find a comb my hair's getting so long usually it's just like I get out of the shower and it kind of falls into place but now I think I actually need to find my comb yeah I would I would advise for that we'll see you tomorrow buddy thanks for doing this sounds good thank you yeah that's Connor O'Neill from the Winston-Salem that's Connor O'Neill from the Winston-Salem Journal