Best Of: Billy Gillispie (5/5/20)

Attention, please. This is The Drive with Josh Graham Podcast. Tune into The Drive three to six weekdays on WSJS Sports. I love it.

It's brilliant. Steve Forbes is gonna be here in 30 minutes and for the last few days we've been applauding the hire for Wake Forest and for good reason. He's already passed the three big tests he was set to face the moment he agreed to be the Deacon's new coach.

Number one, personality. Now I know how that might be received by you. You might think that's a very small thing but I don't think it is considering the two previous coaches that have preceded Forbes. Danny Manning. I feel like we've learned more about Forbes in the last four days than I knew about Danny personally in the six years he was the Deacon's coach. I'll tell you the moment I knew Wake had somebody different. The obvious example was the 45 second video where he's spiking a medical face mask into the practice gym floor at the Shaw Center.

I don't think you'd ever catch Danny or Bezdelic dead doing anything of that sort. But his press conference opened with him telling a story about his wife agreeing to go to a recruiting trip where I think he was interviewing for a GA job in Nebraska and that's how they spent their honeymoon. That's something I'm interested in asking coach Forbes about when he joins us. He just seems like a great storyteller.

He's been to a lot of different places. I'm fascinated by the guy but one of the bigger tests I think a coach has to face when you're proceeding, Danny Manning and before that Jeff Bezdelic, hey do you have the energy to breathe life back into this program? It's become clear coach Forbes possesses that. You need somebody who's gonna do what John Curry did last year and start the I'm a fan campaign get people fired up to go to football so you have the payoff the first home game at BB&T Field a pretty strong crowd on a Friday night against Utah State. Coach Forbes he strikes me as the guy who isn't gonna mind going to campus and handing out tickets to students, getting to know students, being a part of the community.

So that's number one. Number two, re-recruiting the roster. I was listening to coach Forbes with Les Johns yesterday on his podcast and apparently he took the entire staff sawyer to Durham to meet with Olivier Saar who entered the transfer portal last Thursday or it would have been last Friday the day he was being introduced as the Deacon's coach. He took the entire staff there spent two hours in Durham but this is what makes the dynamic interesting. Olivier is currently staying with Blake Buchanan's family.

Walk on it Wake. The reason that is you have to be on campus staying in the dorms your first three years you're at Wake. So Olivier had to stay on campus that's where he lived. The other place he would be is back home in France. Now I don't know if you know this Sawyer but there's this thing called the coronavirus that doesn't allow you to travel back to Europe if that's where in fact you're from.

Coronavirus! I was just waiting for that. So campus was being closed he couldn't go back home to France so he just bunked up and stayed with the Buchanan's family Blake Buchanan's family who's a walk on onto the team. So how does this work when it comes to re-recruiting Olivier? Is Blake being worked into this by coach Forbes? Hey man you should go back to Wake this was Forbes guy seems pretty cool. Does coach Forbes try to get the family in on it? When he shows up to Durham does he spend time trying to get to know Blake as much as Olivier the third all third team all ACC player he's trying to recruit coming back?

I just wish I could be a fly on the wall watching that all happen. So I'm not dismissing the chances Wake has of potentially landing Sarf having him come back but a nugget he had on the podcast with Les he says that Odie Igwama is going to return as will Ishmael Massoud. It would only make sense for Jacobi Neith to be back as well I don't think Neith can find another place of the power six where he'd be guaranteed pretty much a starting point guard position so I don't know how he turned that down so assuming he comes back Massoud and Odie that's a pretty decent team. That's a test that he passed trying to get players who enter the transfer portal to return to Wake.

If he can get Sar it's gonna be at A plus right now it's just the passing grade C plus B minus if you can get Sar to return that's an A. And lastly he also told Les Randolph Childress is going to be a part of the staff we don't know what his role is going to be yet Jason Shea who was the top assistant at East Tennessee State for Forbes he's being considered for the head coaching opening all indications say that if Shea isn't hired at East Tennessee State he's going to arrive in Winston with coach Forbes which means there's not going to be any room on the staff for Randolph to be an assistant but this is just me speculating if Shea does get that job I'd be surprised if Childress isn't an assistant coach. Let's not forget there are other roles you can fulfill without being listed as an assistant coach which he's been since 2014 the final year for Jeff Bezdelic all throughout Danny's tenure. He was hired in 2013 initially to be the director of player development I think what it comes down to you just need to have some connection to Wake Forest on your roster because Forbes himself has no connection to this state no connection to the school no connection to the ACC Randolph he's a legacy he's one of the all-time greats having him agree to be involved is a huge win as well for coach Forbes so I think those were the three initial tests he faced as Wake Forest coach when he came in personality check re-recruiting the roster check and we'll see to what degree with Saar and lastly getting Randolph to be a part of this coaching staff I think is a huge deal you can tweet the show at sportsubtryout 336-777-1600 is the phone number sports is back as we shift things to KBO South Korean baseball and I think Sawyer it's a lot who our team is going to be no question about it in the same way this show was a San Diego Fleet radio show for the AAF before that got disbanded and we were a Houston Roughneck radio show in the XFL I'm not wearing my XFL hat today before that went up in flames as well we had our show associated with a team in each of those leagues I feel like since the KBO is all we have right now we need to attach ourselves to one of these teams and the one I'm nominating is NC Dinos that's our squad NC Dinos I'm going to slip up and accidentally call them North Carolina Dinos I know it's gonna happen the obvious they have NC in their name Sawyer but do you know why they are the NC Dinos I don't know much about the Korean Baseball League so I don't know why a video game company NC soft sponsors them it's meant to be that's right going further if you look on the roster they have a player named Mike Wright Mike Wright he's from the Carolinas he went to East Carolina I actually got to know Mike Wright a little bit when he was there and he pitched for my favorite baseball team the Baltimore Orioles for nearly five years if you're looking for icing on the cake how about this we all root for an underdog nobody wants to root for the frontrunners no one likes a guy who just picks the front running team ESPN they listed their power rankings for KBO teams they're not even in the top five out of the ten teams but how about this they led KBO in home runs last year and the coolest thing about the KBO the thing that's bringing people in they allow bat flips it is an art form to see the way they bat flip even when they don't hit home runs someone jacked one foul and it was a massive bat flip just in case it remained fair down the left field line but here's the kicker they have a mascot who is nicknamed and this is true swole daddy it is a jacked dinosaur Sawyer jacked daddy dinosaur swole daddy of NC dinos it's just meant to be your video game tie as your pinch hitting for Robert Walsh today the East Carolina tie who then pitched for the Orioles you got in seeing the name and you have a jacked dinosaur mascot named swole daddy what else do you want riddle me that I mean with the bat flipping the home runs I feel like this is like the lob city of the Korean baseball league like we're just flashy flashy underdog gotta win this morning four to nothing they took care of business so we are an NC dinos radio show it's official before we get to coach Forbes who's gonna join us in a little over 15 minutes I've got offseason grades for the entire NFC south with one team getting in a and another getting a D I'll fill in those blanks for you next on the drive admittedly I'm not a big conspiracy guy Sawyer I don't know about you like if the Kennedy assassination was assisted by the government or if the government government was concealing info about Roswell New Mexico I feel like somehow some way it would get out especially in the social media age translating that the sports I'd argue Michael Jordan's first retirement the conspiracy surrounding that it is the Kennedy assassination of sports I guess where people are trying to figure out if there's anything to this that we don't know we kind of hinted at it or Jason higher hinted at it at the end of the last dance episode six but I think are gonna get heavier into that in episode seven I just don't understand the argument at this point people saying Michael was suspended he didn't decide to leave he was suspended from Major League Baseball because of his gambling for those who say that well he stayed out longer than a year he stayed out nearly two years except he came back after 60 or some games in the 1994 season or the 95 season came back they lost to Orlando in that series nobody seems to count that against Michael for some reason there's a very pro Michael bias out there where people just seemed to forget about the series that he lost in the first round or forgot the fact that in the middle of the 90s he lost to Orlando oh but he started the season in baseball so that's why he lost that year got it but putting that argument aside we could get to that at a later date the conspiracy falls apart just on this alone I think people who are younger don't really understand or maybe didn't understand the extent of Michael's fame in 1993 the extent of Michael's celebrity how important he was to the NBA because just ten years prior to that the NBA was in deep trouble it wasn't a failing business but it wasn't a successful one star players they were they had a drug problem in the week the Bulls were the traveling cocaine circus heck if we're using a local example David Thompson's career was cut short because of drugs in the 80s and many others can say that limb bias in 1986 just tragic stuff David Stern there's no way if it's under his watch if it's on his watch excuse me that he would kick Jordan out of the sport just no way it would happen Magic Johnson he's already surprisingly retired because of HIV at this point bird retired a year before this happened Isaiah he's a year away from retiring the Pistons they aren't what they were he's the cash cow for the entire NBA like it's three years out of Kareem it's the Bulls it's the Bulls that isn't to say there are other stars Charles Barkley just in the finals at that point Clyde Drexler Karl Malone John Stockton they're all there Hakeem Olajuwon but no one is remotely close to the marketing power of Michael he transcended sports there's no way you can convince me Stern says we need to kick that guy out too many people would have to have known what was up in order for that to happen too many people it would have leaked at some point somebody tells a blogger at some point a columnist gets it at some point it happens but it never did because it never happened David Stern he's dead now like if they were trying to owe something to Stern at this point I think it would come out with the Jordan doc being released nobody has spoken about this because it's just implausible to suggest that Michael Jordan was actually suspended from the leak it doesn't make sense when he was allowed to return how long was the suspension also he didn't break any rules still evidence that he actually bet on basketball gambling is a normal thing on the golf course people cared still because they had this image of Michael from TV commercials you've got to be like Mike Gatorade Nike they projected what they wanted Michael to be on this person who is in fact human and not perfect who was flawed this isn't Pete Rose though so Michael he never broke any rules he never gambled on sports gambling on the golf course is completely normal and I think the doc is really setting this up well to dismiss any rumor whatsoever that Michael was suspended from basketball because of Stern's involvement and talking about it and MJ and what we're about to see in episode 7 the unrest from people who are bugging him about the gambling at Atlantic City and him on the golf course with a guy like slim bowler and Charlotte the media coverage the fact that nobody had beaten him in the last few years and there wasn't any up-and-coming star that you look at and you say that's the guy I need to take down his dad passing which is gonna be a big part I think of episode 7 him always wanting Michael to be a baseball player all of that factors in and I think the more time goes on and the more or the less amount of information that's out there that argues to the contrary I believe that there's no question Michael Jordan he was not suspended he decided just to go play baseball Sawyer do you believe any conspiracy theories hmm aliens especially after last week's news well I knew about that news two years ago and I was trying to tell people blink 182 is trying to tell us all I mean it's definitely aliens I think are real I mean I don't know if we've ever seen them if we know they're out there but I think everyone knows there's UFOs maybe not like we don't have a little alien person like in area 51 but they know more than they're showing okay it's time to induct another topic into our sports talk radio Hall of Fame this time it is college athlete should they be paid there are few sports radio topics that have passed the test of time topics debaters have embraced for decades and the debates still go on this is the sports radio topic Hall of Fame today's inductee is it time to pay the college athletes well it's been time to do that for a long time I mean just look at the relationship that the universities have with these shoe companies where the shoe companies are paying them 10 20 30 40 million dollars to use the players as unpaid billboards that's what they are should college athletes be paid oh yes this is on the Mount Rushmore as far as I'm concerned right there with Michael versus LeBron right there with Pete Rose should he get into the Hall of Fame PED users should they get in I feel like anytime I learn or somebody learns I'm a sports talk host the question I most commonly get when it's hey what do you think about this is this question it's the most common one and this used to be like a 50-50 issue even just a dozen years ago where people thought no they shouldn't and the other side believed yes they should I'll tell you what flipped it in my mind I think it was Terrell Pryor and Ohio State in the mid-2000s the entire tattoo scandal people lambasted these guys as if they were criminals or if they were breaking rules breaking laws I should say when in reality they weren't making any money they're these star players and they're exchanging some of their gear in exchange for tattoos when that was seen to be a big deal by the NCAA I think the public perceived it as wait why are we crushing these college kids for getting tattoos for something that should be their possession I always hated this argument that's common with this discussion education is worth a lot more than the dream of being an athlete those people I get that a lot education everything yeah it's worth something but it's not worth the same to somebody who let's just say that some scholarship athletes are worth more than others that's the best way to put it like at Duke Jack White is a scholarship player but is he worth more than Zion Williamson should his education should his what he gets in exchange for his services be exactly the same as Zion's probably not here's what I envisioned I think we're gonna look back on amateurism 20 30 years from now and think this was ridiculous it's never gonna work it was never gonna work this way and we're gonna laugh at it like remember when we thought the Olympics would be rumored ruined if star players NBA players competed in them like amateurism is what what made the Olympics of course that was a fallacy we love the Olympic Games we love watching the dream team the redeem team and I think years from now we're gonna look back at amateurism and athletes not being paid and think how could that possibly work providing you with a kind of sports programming that makes some people laugh but most people just wince ooh you're on the drive with Josh Graham and now we're being joined by the man who gave him his first power six opportunity that being Billy Gillespie but I need to correct on something I said I was talking about the fact you're at Tarleton State I know Stephenville pretty well but I'm mistaken Stephenville with Dublin Texas which is where dr. pepper is from it's not in fact Stephenville so it's the greatest mistake I've made in the history of my broadcasting career I hope and people can forgive me for that but here coach looking at coach Forbes his resume here I wonder when he gets this opportunity which is his first head coaching job what your reaction was it's not as far said coaching job in the power six excuse me Eddie Eddie that's your second mistake you've ever made hey I'm just kidding with you but but no he he knocked it out of the park his first time he got to be a head coach ethic at the division one level and everywhere else he's been you know when he's a JUCO coach he knocked it out of the park and he'll go into the ACC and do the same thing there's absolutely zero question in my mind what he's gonna do at Wake Forest what do you remember your first impression of coach Forbes being way back in 2004 late by the way we've become really good friends and that always just when we were out recruiting at events and those kind of things in a profession you kind of notice the guys that you really have a great respect for whether you're working with them or really Norman all at all but he was always the guy in the gym that was always paying attention to the players he's he's an unbelievable evaluator a lot of guys are watching their cell phone and and checking their email most kind of things when they're in the gym and Steven Steve's always been the guy that's going to evaluate better than anyone I've seen he can really evaluate players and once he evaluates and targets those guys he'll go get them and once he goes after him he gets them and so he's been a tremendous recruiter at every level he's been he's always gotten better players no matter what school he was at he's gotten better players than they expected them to get and that's why you win he's a winner he's going to continue to win a wake force I guarantee it he says he came from the Billy Gillespie tree of coaching defense what exactly should we expect that to look like this ball well it'll depend on players that they end up with but but uh what you know what what he's gonna do is he's gonna play solid basketball and they've had great coaches awake for us over the over the years I think that I think that out of the coaches that have been there you know just looking down the list and what a great list it's been but I would think they're going to be very similar to the way coach Prosser used to play and may he rest in peace and he did a tremendous job there their backgrounds are a little bit different but a little bit similar as well coach had to scratch and claw and fight for everything he got Steve has had to do the same thing Steve's going to play a high high high level of basketball and you have to in the ACC to survive and definitely to do great and that but they're gonna great they're gonna take great shots they're not going to turn the ball over they're gonna offensive rebound they'll get to the foul line more than their opponents and on the defensive end they'll give their teams one or less shots per possession and and they won't foul and they'll rebound the ball and so that's winning basketball at any level and I think Steve knows how to teach it as well as anyone in the country Billy Gillespie with us here on sports hub triad we had coach Forbes with us about an hour ago and people are just raving about this guy's personality and how likable he is and how easy it is for him to relate to people Greg Marshall was with us on Friday and he told the story about him recruiting and JUCO with a moped a moped that coach Forbes wanted to correct us with saying it was in fact a scooter is there anything that sticks out to you when you look at recruiting stories his ability to recruit and it speaks to the personality he has in his ability to relate the guys when you recruited a very high level as Steve has done and will continue to do it's really hard to not make enemies you know because think things just I mean there's so many variables and there's going to be some people that you know if you offered a guy and he didn't take it or if you offered a guy and then got someone else there there's all kinds of things that happen over the course of recruiting especially over the course of time I can't ever remember one guy that didn't have a great liking of Steve Forbes and and he had been in a lot of recruiting battles but everybody loves him and he's got a big smile on his face he's a jolly looking guy you know we can make fun of him though a lot of different ways in every regard and and as we all a little bit funny looking but he's the funniest and that but he always has a smile on his face he cares about people and and the biggest thing about Steve is he's got this real desire to win he's a real real real competitor as he wants to compete and win as much as anybody but he has this humility that he was I loved having him on our staff because I knew how great he was but he was also a guy that we could make fun of all the time and he could laugh at himself and a lot of people at the very very highest level of any profession they they're too serious and they can't laugh at themselves he's a lot of fun to have on the staff either when he's the head coach or when he's a part of the staff and and so everybody's gonna love Steve Forbes everybody that works in the office everybody on campus all the fans he again he went from East Tennessee State and just turned that thing around and he didn't just win he just won in a big way and and what they did over there was amazing he's gonna do the same thing at wage force I guarantee it just as long as he has a little time to get some players he mentioned last Friday among the NBA players he coached or guys who went on to the NBA was AC law who you coached at Texas A&M what's the best AC law story you got with me got for me Forbes didn't coach AC law that was Buzz Williams he was on the other end working with the big guys so I don't know why Forbes would lie and say that but no he he coached them all we all coach every every position and and he again he he might you know you can you can I could pick out some particular instances and and it'd be a funny story or something that would be fun to listen to but the thing about Forbes is it'd be consistency he's going to be the same guy every single day he's going to be in a great mood he's going to change the mood of the room he's going to change he knows how to talk to players as well as anyone that I've ever been around I've been around some good ones he knows when they needed to be scold they need to be scolded he knows when they need to have a pat on their back and he forms these relationships that last forever the best job he ever did with with any of the players and he did a good job with all of them but at Texas A&M was a guy named Antonis Kavalovskis who actually coach Odom tried to recruit when he was in South Carolina yeah but he and he he was a guy here here's a great story about Forbes and his recruiting though we'll tell you this so that particular year we had just taken over the Texas A&M job and and so we the last day of recruiting they they had them define days that you could go out there's September 26 I'll never forget it Forbes sends me up to Barton County Community College where he had recruited or where he had coached before and he had a great friend named Supey Campbell coaching so he wants me to go watch this guy from Puerto Rico and I got up there and I said no I don't like him I like that Lithuanian kid over there and he said nah coach he's no good and and I said yeah I like him and he said nah we can get him late don't worry about it when ends up he ends up blowing up and and we had a real fight on our hands with Bruce Pearl who just took the Tennessee job coach Odom and four or five other schools and and that that was his great evaluation that I've already spoken out he didn't even know what Antonis Kavalovskis looked like who ended up playing professionally for about 15 years and that winning a bronze medal for Lithuania but we joke about that all the time give him a hard time everybody misses in recruiting heat but when he got to Texas A&M he really took him under his wing and he's the reason that Antonis developed into the player that he he became yeah coach Pearl he's going to be with us tomorrow and I'm interested since after you were done at A&M you went to Kentucky you went up against coach Forbes when he was on Pearl's staff at Tennessee that seemed to be a bit of a rivalry Kentucky and Tennessee but since we're here in the Carolinas is there any team in your experience working with Kentucky is there any team Kentucky fans hate more than Duke I don't know if they hate the team I think that they have a serious dislike for Chris and Leitner and the coach and hey the people that you dislike the most are the people that have had the most success against you and so that's usually the way that goes but I think there's a sincere dislike for those guys yeah and now coach Forbes he has it's part of his responsibility now to deal with that coach K guy on a regular basis we'll see if he's gonna be up to the task yeah he will I guarantee he it'll be a different it'll be a major challenge I've had another one of our assistants go into the ACC and he came he came from Marquette buzz Williams and he went to a very difficult job in the ACC and he started playing a winning brand of basketball Virginia Tech and they they just grind that they ground it out I guess is what you would say and and he developed an unbelievable program within the ACC against the North Carolina's the Dukes of Louisville's the Syracuse and all those guys that are supposed to be the biggest guys and they're unbelievable every year but if you play basketball right you recruit the right guys that's what Steve's gonna do they're they're gonna move up in that league no matter how good those opponents are I promise well I just appreciate you I know you got a lot going on as everybody does admit everything that's happening from Tarleton State it's Billy Gillespie with us here on sports of giant thank you so much for spending the time in the triad and talking about your old friend Steve Forbes it's appreciated we're looking forward to getting known well y'all got a great guy over there I guarantee it and and he's he's gonna be fun to deal with in the media and I mean it's he's a guy that won't change because he took on a bigger top job than he's ever had he'll be the same guy he's gonna be fun hey they won't be without fault that's for sure nobody is but he's gonna get wait for us back to winning like they should stay safe be well to you and yours coach thanks for doing that thank you you got it that's Billy Gillespie before we get the daring Gant for pro football talk calm some important news to pass along to you right now and this is according to WR al and now I see it reported by several different outlets governor Cooper says he's signed an executive order moving North Carolina into phase one of his three-phase reopening the state process it's gonna start Friday May the 8th and it's going to expire on May the 22nd you might be wondering what's phase one mean gatherings are still going to be capped at 10 people businesses can reopen but it's still strongly encouraged that if you're out in public you have to have a face mask on or it's strongly recommended that you have that on in addition to that parks can open as well so that's governor Cooper signing an executive order a short while ago and we're moving into phase one starting Friday at five o'clock now we're being joined by daring Gant talk a little football here a lot of things happening cam Newton I asked this question yesterday and I'm interested in your thought on it if these were the two options retire or take a role as a backup what do you think would be more likely cam more likely to do retire or take a backup role where do you stand on that I don't know that it's necessarily binary I think cam Newton is probably willing to wait a bit I think he's in kind of the same situation today being clowny is no rush to get a deal done now you're not missing anything there's no OTAs you're you're not missing out on anything but some zoom meeting so what's the rush to do anything right now so I suspect cam would probably just be willing to wait and become Sam Bradford and wait and see if somebody's starter gets hurt in training camp and and they get desperate then you know I I think there might be situations where he'd be willing to go but I also think it's important to remember a lot of these places that allege to have starting quarterbacks don't have starting quarterbacks as good as can so I you know somebody mentioned Jacksonville to me and I was like or a why would anybody want to go to Jacksonville and play for Doug Morone but B why would anybody concede the point that Gardner Minshew may somehow be a better option than you I just don't know what world that is to be honest with you so I mean I know I'm avoiding your talk radio hot take industrial complex one or the other no I only say it to set up something else because cam I agree with you there are a lot of teams that I think are fielding quarterbacks that aren't as good aren't as talented as cam is and all I keep hearing in response is oh well the market there's just no market for him right now and to those people I respond with if Andrew Luck came out of retirement tomorrow there would be a dozen teams lined up to pick him up they wouldn't be talking about his shoulder surgery for a year they wouldn't be talking about how many injuries he's had and him being out of the game for a year so I just don't want to hear that the team I throw out there and I threw it at Joe person as well yesterday it's the Denver Broncos because I mean once upon a time they drafted a first-round quarterback that won a playoff game and they bailed when they had a better option available now I'm not saying they're gonna bail and drew Locke who was a second-round pick but he's not proven and you have a coordinator or choose me a quarterbacks coach who once upon a time was camps coordinator in Carolina in Mike Shula is there a place that you like potentially as a fit where cam would be the best quarterback on the roster well I still think I mean the two places that have stood out to me throughout and nothing that's happened since this offseason began has changed at the two places stood out to me were the Chargers and the Patriots and I just think you know every signal coming out of New England is Bill's not interested in and Bill should be interested in him and I think while Bill Belichick might be a prideful man who wants to do football a certain way you can imagine a quarterback looking and dressing you know he had a diva quarterback last year it's just that his name was Tom Brady and not Cam Newton so I I think New England makes all the sense in the world it's Bill's never beaten cam in their two regular season meetings I think if there's a coach who has an agile enough mind to be able to do his football different ways I mean look at the way Bill Belichick played defense he's one playing zone he's one play impressed man he's he's done it a lot of different ways so I can't imagine he wouldn't look at Cam Newton and say yeah there's some stuff I can do with that as far as the Chargers go I mean they they went through that dance where they were talking about Tyron Taylor and they love him and they think he's great and they go out and draft Justin Herbert I don't know if he's gonna be any good or not and either one of those places Cam Newton walks in and he's the best quarterback on the depth chart but that could be said about a lot of places I mean that could be said if we're just throwing out hypotheticals that could be setting Cleveland that could be said in Denver that could be said in you know again we could do this all day long probably about half the league would fall into that category Darren Gant profootball.com with us here when you look at what Carolina's doing big big big picture speaking the draft and now offseason moves I'm interested in what stands out to you because it almost seems like in free agency Carolina they signed before the draft 14 free agents 11 of them were on offense and all 11 of them were in their 20s and 10 of the 11 did not sign more than a two-year contract with Carolina Teddy Bridgewater being the exception he has no guaranteed money on his third year then you look at defense the entire draft devoted to the defensive side of the ball it looks like to me Carolina has given assurances to Matt rule with that big contract he was given and this year is all about having younger guys not tanking talented younger players right figuring out who's gonna be a big-picture guy have you ever seen this type of strategy taking hold in the NFL where it just seems purely the priority is evaluation seeing which guys are long-term pieces well we watch Miami do it last year I mean this is very similar to the dolphin situation in my eyes I mean the Dolphins could have guaranteed themselves to of the easy way by not having Ryan Fitzpatrick be their quarterback the rest of that roster was bad enough they would have organically reached the point of picking first overall so and I think there's an argument to be made that Teddy Bridgewater is gonna win enough games to keep them out of the top five next year so and it's possible but I think there's something to be said for being competent for being you know respectable at what you do and you don't want to create a situation especially as a first-year coach if you're talking about building the long-term program you don't want to create a situation where you say okay we know it's okay if we're gonna lose blah blah blah I mean that's just not I don't think that's good team-building I think it's a bad way to go about thinking you know every time these guys go out I mean it's easy for fans and people who work for other teams to say you ought to be doing business this way but every one of those 53 guys who take the field it is fighting for his life and he's trying to earn a career out here trying to play as well as you can so it's hard to convince guys to not be good at stuff so I just think they're they're trying to be as good as they can while they can while being realistic about you know maybe not being a playoff team this year but I think there's a value in winning six or seven games as opposed to two because I think when you're the kind of terrible listen it's harder in the NFL to lose all 16 than it is to win all 16 and if you go through a season and only win a game or two or three you you're terrible in a lot of ways that's going to carry over into the future and so I think there is value in being competent yes have you watched much of the last dance you know I've been in and out of it and and this may sound like heresy and I'm not trying to take fire up the hot take machine but I don't find Michael Jordan all that compelling a character for a ten-part series because all Michael Jordan's really good at is playing basketball and selling shoes he's never put any value whatsoever in being anything greater and I'm not saying every athlete's got to be Muhammad Ali but it's a little disappointing for me as a North Carolinian to see a guy who could have affected great change in this state just completely absolve himself of any responsibility and again not everybody has to be an advocate not everybody has to be an activist and he's well within his rights to do so but he's also squandering an incredible resource he could have done a lot for the state of North Carolina and in the nation if he had chosen to he's just chosen not to and while you know I don't take away from how great he is at basketball I'm just not particularly interested in him otherwise because of that this seems to be right up your alley because you're a Charlotte Ian and the former mayor was outlined in this last episode who also shares a last name with you I don't think there's any relation there my right am I right in saying you're not related at all to Harvey Gantt I'm not really into genealogy so I'm not sure I mean I've always respected Harvey Gantt he's a tremendous you know citizen of our city who's done a lot of great things at a lot of levels right so Michael Jordan he said he gave money to Harvey Gantt because his mom wanted him to and but didn't speak publicly about it and he of course gave the line Republicans by sneakers too it was Harvey Gantt versus Jesse Helms in 1990 the Senate race what do you remember about that was it was there a lot of pressure on Michael that you remember to get involved in this somehow I think the culture was very different at that time I mean again Michael was still young enough in a career at that point that there wasn't that immediate outcry there wasn't a social media echo chamber where you would get clubbed over the top of the head for saying something or not saying something in any particular direction so the atmosphere was different but I I know that you know there was there was certainly some pressure from some people around him but from the pieces of the documentary that I've called and I've part of in you know like I said I'm not purposely avoiding it I'm just not wrapped up you know every second and DVR in it from the parts I've caught I think the impression has been overwhelming that Michael is most interested in Michael and Michael is going to do Michael business Michael's way and anything else just really isn't that important to them in it that means not taking aside in a political race or not you know inviting Isaiah Thomas under the drinking even though he's the second best point guard you know playing basketball at that point in time I think it's it's become clear to me that Michael is the focus of Michael and you know I just try you know I'm not trying to portray myself to the same but I you know I grew up in the scouts and we talk about serving other people and I think you know he's certainly done some things and made some donations and has the ability to but he just he comes up short in my mind because he's been less willing to you know advocate for anything other than Nike at McDonald's or Mike before I let you go we usually talk about shows and music and entertainment when you're on with us as well obviously there aren't things to attend right now and I see a lot of people who say they're gonna be incredibly hesitant to go to a show or go to a game whenever that time comes how do you hear it's gonna be hard I mean there are shows I was talking to the girlfriend the other day about a show that was scheduled to come to Charlotte on September 1st I said you think we can go to that she said you think we wanna and I don't know I mean I I'm hesitant about it I I think it'll be easier to go to a show out at the outdoor amphitheater sit on the lawn you know spread out a blanket to allow yourself a little space with your neighbor but you know the feeling some of the best shows I've ever seen are in small clubs where you know the intimacy is part of the cell I mean when you can feel that energy from the band and from the people watching the show and I think it's gonna be difficult I'm you know I'm like a lot of people in Charlotte in the outlying area I've got a lot of money tied up in Rolling Stones tickets right now because they postponed and not canceled they're not giving back to us yet so I be I really want to see Keith Richards play one more time in my life I really want to see Nick sing and dance and perform one more time in my life I'm not as excited about getting in a crowd of 50,000 people I'm just not and and I don't know when it's gonna come back I hope it does because it's something that I enjoy a lot and want to be a part of because that I truly believe that communal experience when you are when you're in a space with an artist and they're feeding off your energy you're feeding off theirs that's one of the most sublime things you can be a part of I don't know if I told you the story but when I went to see Peter Frampton I think it was last summer Frampton's got a degenerative nerve issue that's going to keep him from playing guitar at a certain point in his life and he plays for us and he said hey I just want to let you know I think this is sacred I'm sharing this with you and there is a bond between artists and audience it's it's real and tangible and I miss it but at the same time I don't know when I'm gonna feel like getting in that crowd again it kind of reminds me of Bob Dylan who still performs he goes out there and I forget who it was it might have been you who told me this we were discussing it but the people who said ah man like I don't know if I'm gonna go see Bob Dylan I I've still regret not going to go see him in Colorado but someone came back at me and said do you honestly think Bob Dylan is going out there for you he's doing that for him and many other musicians I think feel the same way and I don't know how it changes if there aren't as many people who are not allowed to gather the way that we normally did right I mean I mean listen I'm not an artist like Bob Dylan but I write for a living and I like people and singers like people hearing their songs and sharing it they've been dancing along or whatever it is they do it's it's art has to be collaborative at a certain point for it to have value it's good to hear your voice Darren thanks for doing this buddy yeah man anytime got it that's Darren Gant for ProFootballTalk.com there is something he said there that I thought was interesting Michael Jordan cares about Michael Jordan and he cares about selling shoes and damn is he good at selling shoes because watching the last dance I don't know if anybody else feels this way I really want to get a pair to pair of Jordans it almost sounds like heresy but I've I've never had a pair of Jordans in my life never I don't know if that's strange but Sawyer you're a pretty big sneakerhead if I got a pair of Jordans which one should I get I've been I go the originals I've been thinking of this I don't think you're a high tops guy I think we automatically almost have to rule out really high tops because I just don't see you rocking them I I think when I think of all the Jordans like a Jordan three like a really classic like not super low like ankle cup but just like a nice Jordan three you could rock those in some jeans and a t-shirt like you would like they don't they're not too you know like in your face like it's your shoe I think you could rock one of those I'm looking for it Jordan threes a Jordan three yeah maybe you could go black I don't really know what I don't I don't I've never really seen you in white shoes before so it's hard to picture you in the white Jordan threes you'd probably go the black Jordan threes and be just fine yeah I don't really wear black shoes you only wear black shoes that's true yeah I've seen you in the same pair these are works these are more gray than they are black oh well yeah white white shoes they can get nicked up easier so okay so I should get a pair of Jordan threes what are those generally run oh man $200 250 you can probably get them under under 200 you just gotta look in there I'm gonna go buy a pair then I think you I think you have to how about you do this for me sorry you pull up four different types of air Jordan shoes and I'll even take suggestions from the audience on Twitter at sports I've tried at sports I've tried what type of Jordan should I get and I'm gonna go buy a pair I'm gonna buy I'm gonna buy a pair of Jordans there I committed to it I'm gonna make it happen I don't know how much it's gonna cost me I don't really care whoa we got a big baller here okay oh no I'm not going big baller brand shoes I'm going Jordan brand shoes I mean that straight I think the Air Jordan threes are the one for you I think because they're kind of similar to the one what about the Zion's which once does he have his own shoes yet not yet maybe soon how does I have his own pair of shoes yet how's that a thing what's taking so long for Jordan brand to put out a Zion shoe well we are in the midst of a pandemic and no basketball that might be yeah he just started playing in January yeah it's only been a couple months I so should I just hold out for a Zion one or get a pair of Jordan oh no you got to get a pair of Jordans all right I think I'm gonna do this and you got to go like like low number maybe I'll get so you send me what you think I should get and we'll run it past B dot who's gonna be with us on tomorrow's show we also have Bruce Pearl on tomorrow's show and we got the head coach of the Charlotte Hornets James Borrego so maybe he could tell us what his favorite pair of Jordans are too so that way I can get a bunch of perspective here Roberts also gonna be on B dots Instagram live speed dotting show is that tonight oh that's Wednesday that's tomorrow I've I think Roberts trying to get out of that oh yeah he's a little sick today I'm not feeling so good maybe tomorrow not he's not I don't want to make fun of Robert for not feeling good because how awful would we feel well I'm just not gonna go there yeah let's not