This is The Drive with Josh Graham Podcast. For Internet Sensations, guys. Tune into The Drive weekday afternoons, 3 to 7 on WSJS. We're on a Monday Drive. It is WSJS, News Talk Sports for the Triad.
Where whenever you expect Anything from the Carolina Panthers. This is what you get. Man, there is so much trauma there. Eight seasons built up worth So certainly, your reaction to the game is welcome. 336-777-1600.
If you want in on today's program. You can view us as therapists. of a sort. Get on the couch. Let us know how you're feeling.
Let's just get into it now. This won't be what some of you want to hear. And it also might be an ancient reference for those people. But a lot like Dante and Clerks, The Carolina Panthers aren't even supposed to be here today. here being in the position of being a playoff team.
Not yesterday in that ugly loss to the New Orleans Saints. Not today, looking ahead to the Bucks on Sunday, not this year. The only reason That The Saints game in the big easy. was a high stakes Situation is because Tampa Bay has imploded. Do not lose sight of that.
Don't let that cloud yourself. Your judgment. of progress, of growth, of where this team is. Tampa. was six and two.
Tampa had won four straight division titles. The NFC South. should already be theirs. It should already be locked up. But because Tampa has lost five of their last six games, it isn't.
Yesterday's game in New Orleans. Should have had no stakes. It should have been Building off an incredible win against the Rams and the Green Bay win from last month and getting better. Not. Taking a stranglehold of the NFC South, where you have a chance to clench the division next week at home.
Let's be honest about this. 7-7 shouldn't be tied for a division lead in the NFL. For no extended stretch, do we have this sound of Dave Kanalis talking about growth and how his team has learned to win games? He just spoke with the media earlier this afternoon. for no extended stretch.
Carolina has proven to be special. They have not won consecutive games for nearly two months. They haven't won a game. in which they are favored For more than four years So here was Dave Canalis earlier today speaking about The growth and the process of learning how to win big-time high-stakes games. Identity, yeah, this team trying to find an identity of professionalism, of maturity, to just have that consistent outcome weekly.
That's what we're looking for. That is our best football. That's what we have to go find, and that's the challenge that we all have as a staff, and certainly the players as well. We're all in this thing together, and we have to find consistency because that's what really good teams look like: they show up week in and week out, and they do the basic parts of their job to where the other opponent should have to make spectacular plays to win the game. Do you know what doesn't show a lot of maturity?
12 seconds to go. Saints have no timeouts. Quarterback's running a draw play, and your rookie safety tries to take his head off. That's not showing maturity. Oh, Josh, but that's just one play.
11 penalties for more than 100 yards. That's what Immature football teams do. That's what football teams that don't know how to handle success, what they do. Teams that don't know how to handle success don't win consecutive games for two months. Again, games why like yesterday, or why this is not supposed to be a special playoff team, at least not yet.
They have to learn and build to that point. Playoff teams don't let Tyler Shuck. Go for 11 and 17 play drives or 14 and 17. Play drives and have a touchdown on third down and convert for a billion more third downs. But here is the important takeaway.
If you take nothing away from today's show, Anything else, let it be this. Do not we said this back in March. And it's the same thing we're gonna say now. Don't Let's Miss Set misplaced expectations. take away from progress.
This was the criticism. We had for the Will Daltons of the World back in March. Talking about you should win the division. You should win nine games. Because when you don't do that, People then can point and say, well, you didn't meet your goals.
You didn't meet your expectations when you set the expectations too high, as long as Carolina doesn't lose out. And Finish seven and ten. on a four-game losing streak. They win one of these last three games. Definitionally.
This is a successful season. Plain and simple. It is tremendous progress. Eight wins. Because what did we say back in the offseason?
What did you want to see? Oh, you lost those games against the Chiefs and the Eagles last year. Could you win games like that? You did. You beat the Rams.
You beat the Packers. You did so at Lambeau Field. Eight wins. is a huge step from five when you consider that Carolina hasn't won more than seven games since the last time they made the playoffs in 2017. We've been saying this since the summer.
This roster, this front office, if you inject them with truth serum, the front office that is. They tell you they're building towards 2026. 2026, that's the go year. That's the leap year. This wasn't supposed to be that.
And they aren't. They aren't supposed to, like Dante and Clerks. They're not even supposed to be here today. They're not supposed to be in this position. The only reason they are is not because of their gargantuan merits.
It's because of the implosion of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Let's go to Scott. Regardless of what you're saying. What they are and When you have a chance to be a 2-in-10 team at a time and a 3-in-10 team yesterday, you win the freaking game. It's sickening.
Sure. But that's again a team that's not a playoff team. You'd say the same thing. If you asked me Would we be cool? with Carolina splitting.
The Saints games. And the Green Bay and LA Rams games, those four games, if Carolina was 2-2, would you be cool with it? You probably say, yeah.
So we're talking about the two worst losses. There's variance, and that happens with immature teams learning how to win. There's variance where you have great wins, you have bad losses, and that's what we're seeing. Jay Davis, I'm not a Panther fan, but telling Panther fans not to be content. is not going to work.
If you're there, doesn't matter. How you're there. Fans of any team are going to be mad, especially after wins against the Rams. Not faulting people for being mad. You can be mad all you want, but don't lie to yourself.
Don't say that you're don't pretend that the game we watch on Sunday between the Panthers and the Bucs. Is nearly as significant as what happened with the Bills and Patriots yesterday. Where the Patriots blew that 21-0 lead and the Bills won. Those are two teams that can win the Super Bowl. And that is with AFC South, AFC East significance on the line.
Yeah, there are playoff stakes between these two teams that are playing on Sunday for sure. And it's a huge deal. Not trying to undermine that. But none of these teams have a shot to win the Super Bowl. Neither of these teams, under regular circumstances, should be in the conversation for the playoffs, considering what's happened up to this point.
So They're not even supposed to be in this position. It's good that they are. It's more entertaining that they are, but don't make this something that it's not. Will Dalton, he's the executive producer of this program. How did our local triad high school teams fare in state championships this weekend?
Grimsley and Reidsville both won some state titles. Love that. Yeah, it was great. Crimsley handling their business. Reidsville on Saturday in the afternoon.
much warmer day on Saturday than Friday night.
So congrats to them. No doubt. This weekend, went to Wakes Basketball Game. We'll talk about them in a bit. was at NC State in Kansas.
Did you see The video. My video I had from this game? I did. It was rocking. It was crazy.
For those watching on YouTube, Twitch, and Axe, just sent this over to you. Should check this out. Because The game. Team performance with NC State. Actually did.
really was a letdown considering the environment that was there. There are no excuses for NC State to be 7-4 to start the season in Will Wade's first year. and being 0-4 against high major teams. Kansas was without Darren Peterson for most of the second half and then all of overtime.
So it was the Melvin Council Junior show. Who had 36? He made nine threes in this game. Will, do you want to know how many threes Melving Council Jr. had on the year?
Prior to Saturday? None? He had five. Made nine. It's one of my favorite post-game quotes I've ever heard a player say.
After the game, he was asked when he knew he'd have this type of night. You know what he said? Yesterday, I was at Shoot Around. And I was missing. But I wasn't missing by much.
That's when he knew he was going to go for 36. Uh the defense has been bad all season long. It should have been better. It should be better with a personnel. For those watching on YouTube, Twitch, and X, the crowd just incredible.
I'm, I. It's better than even any Carolina game there. Yeah, the light-up Talos was a nice touch. It was nice. Better atmosphere than even the Carolina games there since the pandemic.
So, an incredible environment. And if you can't beat a so-so Kansas team that's shorthanded with a sold-out home crowd, and you can't win any of your other high-major games, who can you beat? Who can you beat? Like they don't have a marquee non-conference win. And breaking news, Ole Miss.
Not it this year. They play in Greensboro on Sunday. At least the ACC is better, so they'll have some opportunities in that way. But it's important to remember. The media isn't responsible for this being hyped up the way it was.
It's on your head couch. It was his words. And at least he owned a little bit of it after the game on Saturday. Look, time's running out. I'm not hitting the panic button, like you said, but I mean, like, there is an urgency.
about what we're doing. I mean we've we've We've scheduled these games and we haven't won them. And we've also played the toughest non-conference schedule in our league by a pretty wide margin. Um and so, you know, but we haven't we haven't won the games. That we needed to win.
That's just a fact. I mean, look, I've been around long enough, it's a long season. It's 30 games. We're a third of the way through the season right now. We're a third of the way through the season.
Are we where we want to be? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And Most state fans would agree with that. But there aren't any great excuses for why they are 7-4 at this point, and the defense looks that way, and that you let that player go for 36, and you didn't beat that Kansas team in overtime.
when you have an incredible environment behind you. Uh not a lot of great answers from the coach who had a lot to say. all off season long. On the drive. Which job?
Uh straight. Bam W USJS When I woke up this morning. Saw it was 22 degrees out in Winston. First thought I had was It's so cold I thought I might see a polar bear outside. And I was reminded, oh wait.
The polar bears in Baltimore. That's Pete Alonzo. Oh, look, it's New York Met fan and voice of Charlotte FC and friend of the show, Wil Pelagic, that's kind enough to join us. That's a little low. A little?
That's a little nice. I mean, you were the guy who dunked on Will Dalton for about six months because of the Juan Soto deal. I mean That happens. You are boots on the ground in Charlotte. Panther fans have not liked this position that I've taken.
What's that? I took the Dante from Clerks approach in that the Carolina Panthers aren't even supposed to be here. They're not supposed to be. playing high stakes Games with playoff ramifications. The only reason they are, it's not because they're this amazing, reliable team that's earned it.
It's because Tampa Bay started 6-2 and now has lost five of their last six games, making these games a lot more meaningful. And because Carolina has done things that should not. Did things that shouldn't shock us at this point, given what the last two months have looked like. Those stakes have clouded the overall growth, and I'm not a big fan of that. What have you noticed?
about the reaction in your city, in Charlotte, to this loss.
Well, I'll respond to the initial part of this, Josh, just because of the fact that Look. I'm not going to sit here and deny that Things have not become more convenient for Carolina by things that happened outside of their own sword. The way that Tampa has played over the course of the last eight weeks has let Carolina back into the divisional race 100%. But I also think, too, the thing that's most maddening is the inconsistency that you're seeing from Carolina themselves. The fact that you could see a team Outplay the Packers, the Cowboys, and the Rams, and yet lose twice to a New Orleans team that, while they have been playing better, have not played any game close to the two games they played from an efficiency standpoint and from a winning standpoint, like they did against the Carolina Panthers.
So While I will definitely concede that There is a lot of I guess other outside stimulus that has made at least the desire, the insatiable desire to somewhat touch the money. all too tempting. The same thing is that they have two games to try and win the division now, week 16 and week 18. They got to win them both. Or if they split, they need some help in week 17.
I'm not going to sit here and say that Any of us expected to be in this position. I think seven wins was the baseline I had for this team. Eight was, I think, if certain things broke right, and nine was if everything broke right. They could still get to nine. They could still win the division.
And while it would still feel like maybe they're arriving a little bit early, it still puts them in a position where it's, you know what? Regardless of where you're at. The way this season ends, the arrow is still pointing up. It still doesn't make the fact that what happened yesterday and what happened twice this year against New Orleans all the more disappointing because you thought you were ahead of that franchise, at least at this point. Yeah.
Um there is Some good news to talk about in the Queen City, though. The Charlotte Hornets got a win yesterday. Hey, did so in overtime. And we have a tradition on this show that sometimes we like to do when Will Pelagic, one of the Play-by-play voices in the Queen City. Of course, the voice of Charlotte FC joins us.
We like to play Eric Collins' calls because we are tickled anytime. EC calls big moments such as Brandon Miller forcing OT. Or it's choosing that to use a timeout. Down by three. Brenda!
Yeah! He got it! Hunt diddly deep. We're tied! Yeah.
of Eric Collins' career. LeBron James on a podcast. Saying Some version of Hum Diddly D recognizing game of Eric Collins? That was pretty cool. That was pretty cool to see.
And it's even cooler to see both of them go on Amazon Prime and do those games too as well, which has been great. And it's also, I love the fact that They get a chance to see them, and it really hasn't affected the Hornet schedule. And from what I understand, you know, they're basically in a situation where. There isn't going to be any conflict in terms of what I can understand.
So it does seem like it's very important to Eric, and he said so as much that he wants to do all 82 Hornet games, or at least the ones that aren't on national TV. I know that they have a Peacock game and a couple of other games that might end up on full national. But at the same point in time, it's great to see his rise. And from the Hornets perspective themselves, This is the eighth victory in a 26-game season. No one's sitting here and trying to sugarcoat it.
It's not been good. It's been downright lousy. But every one of their victories has felt like a corner-turning moment. It just doesn't feel like they turn the corner almost too dissimilar to what we're talking about with Carolina and the football team.
So, from that perspective, I want to see some build-on of it. Obviously, Thursday night they play the Atlanta Hawks, a divisional rival. You have a team who comes in here having beaten you before.
So, Maybe they get some good injury news coming here in the middle of the week. But at the same point in time, this is a team that, number one, needs to learn how to win and number two, needs to get more bodies back on the floor because the only way you're going to evaluate The way this team looks is having them all healthy together. And unfortunately, it just hasn't been that way. going on three seasons now. Let's flip the conversation to Zakar since we got you.
This is going to be our last visit of 2025. 2026, it's the U.S. World Cup, or the U.S.'s hosting of the 2026 World Cup, along with Mexico and Canada. And we got the draw last week. First off, before we get to the Charlotte piece of the U.S.
excitement, how did you feel about the United States' draw, the good and the bad? I think that it was about as good of a draw as they could have hoped for. Again, was it the best draw they could have potentially gotten? No, but the crazy things happen in these draws. I've watched enough of these on the international level and also on the intercontinental level when it comes to the Champions League and things of that nature.
Stuff happens. And, you know, it was never going to be a situation where you got three patty cake games. You were always probably going to have a game that felt like a patty cake game. A game that was maybe a middle meteoric game, and then the last game was always probably going to be something you looked at and said, if you need that game, it's going to be difficult. And I think it's basically how it worked out.
I think they're a better team than both the first two that they'll play in Paraguay and Australia. I think those are both very winnable games. And if they win both those games, then they're basically assured a spot in the round of 32. And they'll have to play for seating against Turkey, who I project will be the team that comes out of the intercontinental playoff from Europe. But if they need that turkey a game.
It's going to be very, very difficult to get themselves through. And that basically puts the onus on winning those first two games. But one thing I will say is they are playing a heck of a lot better now under Mauricio Pachitino than they have been, at least the way that they started and even some parts of the summer where it looked like there was a little bit more experimentation going on than U.S. men's national team fans would like to see. I'll add to the fact that I saw Tyler Adams go down today for Bournemouth, and I'm not happy about that.
So that's a little worrisome from the U.S. standpoint because he's one of their best midfielders. But at the same point in time, one of the things that Pochitino has tried to do was create enough workable depth to where. He's not necessarily dealing with an entitlement. And Tim Ream spoke to this too.
He said this is different of U.S. men's national team camp that he's been a part of when we spoke to him last week, and that it did kind of resuscitate a lot of the competitive genes on the international sense. And there was some entitlement in there, and guys who thought that their spot was made in Penn. And from that perspective, he's never been a guy who's acted that way. But even he admitted that I think it definitely ratcheted up the atmosphere in terms of, hey, you know, Mauricio's not afraid to play anybody, and he's wanting to at least see what he has.
And I think that will lead to some real interesting friendlies leading up to the World Cup, and obviously a very interesting World Cup, and hopefully one where the United States makes a big run in it. Wilpelogic with us here at Charlotte FC. Has had some big news this year. Obviously, getting into the playoffs is big enough. We learned about over the summer the.
All-Star game is going to be in Charlotte next summer in the Queen City. And then we got in the last few weeks the news that leading up to the World Cup, Charlotte will be a site for a National team friendly, right before they play the games that will matter the most. We will see the United States national team playing in the Queen City. Any idea who they're playing yet or what type of team they might see?
Okay, cool. I hadn't seen that. I just saw the original headline. But what excitement have you already heard about having a chance to see the team before the World Cup begins?
So they're going to play Senegal, and Senegal is not a team you look at and say brings a heck of a lot of craziness to them. They're a team that, again, out of Africa, and they're coming off, obviously, an opportunity to play in AFCON, which is the African Cup of Nations. That's their big domestic tournament that almost is akin to the Euros. And they'll play that here in December. Wilfred Zaha, by the way, is going to compete for the Ivory Coast in that tournament.
And also Benin's Rodolfo Ilocco, who was under the radar Charlotte FC signing, not too dissimilar to what Edon Toklamati was a year prior. They're expecting big things out of him in 2026. He's playing for his native country, Benin, in the AFCON as well here in the coming weeks.
So you might see some news with those guys playing in matches here over the course of the next couple of weeks. But Senegal, 19th ranked in the country, to give you a sense of where that compares to the United States, the U.S. is somewhat in that same neighborhood. They're 14th.
So it's not necessarily a. A big step up or step down. That's a team that's basically a peer of theirs. They wanted to wait until the World Cup draw came out, so they didn't play a team that they could ultimately face in either the group stage or the immediate qualification stage and the knockout stage. But it's a different type of team than they have in their other three contests because they're going to play Belgium, they're going to play Germany, and they're going to play Spain.
So it's not exactly one, I'm sorry, Portugal, but it's not something that's the same as any of these other teams that they're going to play. The African clubs are a lot more physical. There's going to be a lot less of that type of atmosphere with it. I know that when it comes down to it, maybe it's not the kind of draw people would have thought. And maybe getting somebody out of the Western Hemisphere, or at least out of the Americas, I should say, because I know Senegal does actually.
West of the Prime Meridian, as somebody on our area actually reminded me too. But I know that there are a lot of Senegalese fans in the United States who will travel for this game. It might be their only opportunity to see them play if they've emigrated to the United States because, as you've probably seen, the World Cup ticket prices are astronomical, whereas the Charlotte friendly prices are a lot more economically feasible for a lot of people.
So it'll be an enticing contest. And the biggest part about this game, Josh, is that this is the first game that Mauricio Pochitino will play with his named squad. You really don't have to name your squad until the World Cup starts, but he is choosing to name his squad before the last two friendlies, before they play here in Charlotte and then against and then in Chicago here at the end of or the beginning of the month of June.
So those last two friendlies will be with the named World Cup squad, and it'll be interesting to see how he works his subs and works his patterns in terms of who wants to play in terms of trying to figure out who he can trust when the games count for real. Willie P., thanks for doing this, my friend. Have a happy new year, a Merry Christmas, all of that. And. Do you have anything to play for him just for good measure on the there we go on the way out?
We appreciate it. Merry Christmas, happy holidays. We'll see you in 2026. The Drive with Josh Graham only on WSJS. Let's get to the AZC basketball weekend that was.
Where frankly There was a lot more bad than there was good. It was not a great weekend for the ACC, except for maybe one team. But let's dig into it. The ACC basketball weekend. We recap it by attaching letter grades to it in today's Graham's grades.
Every week is a test for your favorite sports teams. Is this a test? Who passed the test? I don't know. Who dropped the ball?
I don't know. Josh Graham has the answers. What? Time for Graham's grades: the good, the bad, the mad. From what we saw.
And let's start. on the positive end with one team who had a game.
So much better than what anybody else in the league did. A. The Louisville Cardinals. They beat Memphis by 26 points. Hung 99.
on the tiger's head. They shot well. 56% from the floor. 51% from three. They Bully.
Memphis. Out tough them, outclash them. Wasn't even close. Shout out. To Lua Vol that looks every bit.
The part. B. This was the slot that was very tough to Slide a team in. Because not many teams had really good wins. You know what we're gonna do?
Okay. Clemson. Mercer entered 7-2. That's not a bad Mercer team. They've played some difficult tests, and Clemson wins the game at Little John Coliseum.
Okay. That may or may not have been the only reason why I slotted Clemson in as a B. See what else are my options? Notre Dame winning by 24 against a four and six. Evansville team.
Sure, they didn't have Marcus Burton, but Uh Sorry, hard to really characterize that as being a B. A lot of C caliber wins. North Carolina, we'll put it see. This was a game? With four or five minutes to go?
And it shouldn't have been. It's USC upstate. They win by 18. Sure. Crisis averted, no real where you felt the result was in question and Caleb Wilson did Caleb Wilson things 20 and the uh 11 that he had, but Once again.
Kyan Evans struggles. At the point, only had two points. The problem is, Derek Dixon wasn't that much better. He scored three points.
So Still plenty of questions to answer. at the point guard spot and you're running out of games until the start of The ACC season. You know what? The Kelling time. Adding some more justification for putting Clemson as a bee.
The justification is that, of course, it was Brad Brunnell's 300th win at Clemson. And that deserves to be recognized and celebrated.
So that's what we're doing right now. Could also put Wake Forest in that spot where Steve Forbes won his 100th game.
Okay. D. NC Stay. I'm sorry. I know it's Kansas.
But Darren Peterson's hurt. That crowd is insane. And You lose this game. They fought back. It was 70, 63.
They forced overtime. Darien Williams got it and one 10 seconds into the start of OT. And you lose the basketball game. It's just a. Punch to the nettle regions.
It's un Such a missed opportunity. But Is that a lot worse will than UMass winning at Florida State, 103 to 95. I don't know. Pittsburgh getting drilled by an okay so-so Villanova team. You'd be the judge or LSU beating SMU by 12 points on a neutral court.
That's All very tough to do. to decipher. There were a lot of not so great losses. F. But only one loss stood out from the pack.
Going into the week. The weekend, Syracuse was top 75 in the net. And that's not a bad place to be.
Now Syracuse is in the 90s. And the reason that is, is because they decided. Sure, let's lose at home in the dome to Hofstra. The pride of Hofstra.
Well, that's their mascot. The pride. HAFSTRA. They did beat Pittsburgh last weekend. That's not saying all that much though.
Hafstra. is a team that's trying to aspire to be in the NCAA tournament, Syracuse. And Yeah. Who are we looking at and blaming for this? It's not Kai and Anthony.
It's not. JJ Starling. Eh, maybe a goose egg from Nate George, but you're not really leaning on him for your scoring either. Just uh a gross way. Two.
Lose Losing a pay game. Against Hostra. when you're expecting to be. an NCAA tournament. Yeah.
There you go. Syracuse Orange will. Losing that game. Getting to the shield. From over the weekend?
Who which local is more bummed out. Philip Rivers, given that A 60-yard field goal gave the Colts the lead, but then Seattle kicked one to win it. Or Drake May, who was up 21-0 and then kind of hold on against the Bills. Uh I think it's Philip Rivers. Because they're they're I disagree.
Well, because Okay. The Patriots didn't need that win. I think that they could have clinched the division that day. That's fair, but I mean, I call them the Rivers. Also, Drake May didn't play well.
He didn't. Phillip Rivers did. But the Colts are trying to hang in to the last little bit of playoff that they can grasp onto. Nobody gave them a shot at winning that game in Seattle. They were two touchdown underdogs, and Phillip played well.
The Patriots were at home up 21 to nothing. With they were they were planning the party. Dave Portnoy posted a video talking about the bills being over and all. That's worse, especially when he only throws for a buck fifty. That's worse.
No touchdowns, a pick. That's worse. There's no excuse for blowing a twenty one nothing lead, but the Patriots were due. They were dude. That's fine.
You know what I mean? But that feels worse. When you blow a 21-0 lead versus you playing well enough to win a game that no one thought you could win, there's still some achievement in what. Philip Rivers did. I don't think there's anybody saying there's achievement in what the Patriots did yesterday.
Hey, you were up 21-0. That's great. And now the Patriots play on Sunday night football at Baltimore. That becomes a lot more fun. That game.
That becomes a lot more fun. Eagles rule. Broncos are for real. Are they though? Yeah, that's one of your teams that you called a fraud.
They are frauds. I can't wait. to bet on them in the playoffs against them. in the playoffs. Cannot wait.
Looking forward to it. 'Cause every game is like a crisis in the fourth quarter. Every game.
Well, let me read the scores. All right. Let me read the scores. of this win streak. That The Broncos are on.
It started with a rout. They blew out Cincinnati when Cincinnati was without Burrow. 21-17 against the Eagles, 13-11 against the Chats. 33-32 against the Giants. Remember, they were down 29-10 at the end of the fourth quarter of that game.
They did handle things against the Cowboys. There's your one during the stretch. 18 to 15 at the Texans, 10 to 7 against the Raiders, 22 to 19 against the Chiefs. 27-26 at the Commanders on Sunday night. It's 24-17 against the Raiders and then 34-26.
Like you're talking about over an 11-game win streak or however long it's been. It you're you're talking about Nine of those games being one score games. All of them. And when you play great teams in the playoffs. Generally, that comes back to bite you.
It generally comes back to bite you. when you play all these close games. Because how many of those teams are great that they beat? Kansas City obviously isn't. Green Bay is the best team.
There's your answer. Green Bay Bay. Cowboys beat them by 20. Right. But that, okay.
All right. They're about to play Jacksonville. If they beat Jacksonville, are you still going to call them a fraud? Yes. It was.
The details matter. If they beat the Jags by double digits, sure. They can't beat them by a touchdown and it's still not the frauds. They're frauds. Fraud protection.
Frog protection. We're saying the same things. What do we got? He's in the cup. Them stats are misleading.
AF. Drake Rush for two tuds. Downfield blocking. Yeah, he did block downfield on that long touchdown, one of those long touchdown runs. He played fine.
They just took their foot off the gas. They skunked him 21 up, but it ain't Madden. I I just didn't think that Drake missed some throws that generally Drake hits. Yeah, he's very accurate. And in the second half, The reason a team can come back from 21-0 down is because.
The offense sputters. You know? I didn't think he played that well. And it's because I hold Drake to a high standard, man. I feel.
have felt that Drake May is the best quarterback prospect to come out in the last five years. That's the standard I hold them to. Higher than CJ Stroud. Higher than Bryce Young, higher than Jaden Daniels, higher than all those guys.
So, as somebody who's watched a lot of Drake May and loves seeing Drake play well, I didn't think he played well in that game. Even even given the details of what you're pointing out, I didn't think he played that well. It's specifically in the second half. It won't just be Steve Forbes celebrating his 100th win at an ACC school. John Shire expected to do the same when Duke hosts Lipscomb tomorrow night.
By the way, since that's a weird six o'clock tip time, our show will conclude at 4:30 tomorrow.
So it's a. Strange 90-minute drive. As the munit uh the music would suggest. Connor O'Neill has joined us in studio. Oh, that's it.
Two times. Yeah. Two times. Warms my heart on these wind-chill 15-degree days. Oh, boy.
He covers both Duke and Wake for us. How about we start with John Shire's team? Through these ninety nine soon to be one hundred wins. What's the most discernible difference you've noticed in the way that Shires led this program versus We'll call it the latter days of K. Ooh, it's a tough one.
Um. I know I've been on here before and talked about how John changed certain things. About what Duke does. And we just saw one of those things in action in their last game. They went and played a true road game and the date wasn't January and it wasn't an ACC game.
Yeah, and then you look at his bench and they're not a bunch of former Duke captains on it. That's right. Uh that's that's one of the other ways. Um You can look over there behind like I think every single Duke Home game, you look. If you spot John and where his assistants are, you move your eyes just a little bit to the left.
If you're sitting in press row and you see Rachel Baker, that's the other way. Like hire a GM. I think at the time she was the first GM ever hired for a college program. She's still there, still making moves behind the scenes with organizing sponsorship and NIL type stuff. Is there a good Rachel Baker story you have?
People have heard the name. But like Something you've heard through the years where it's like, oh, here's an area or an example where she was integral into us getting Claire X or having this type of relationship or managing something that John doesn't have to worry about. I think one is coming down the pipes. I mean, The One of the main recruits left on their board in the class of 2026 is Deron Rippy Jr., and he's. Down to pretty much Duke and NC State.
I think there's a couple others on his final list. He's supposed to be making a decision. maybe this month, maybe early January. The the home visit pictures were Duron, his father, John, I don't remember which assistant was with him, maybe Tyler Thornton or maybe Sewell. And Rachel Baker.
You're bringing the GM on a visit to pitch a recruit on what they're going to. do and what what platform they're gonna have at Duke. Um There's there's other things like The way John modernized their offense. They run a lot of NBA type stuff. They run five out.
They don't have. A big guy in the post that you're going to throw and let him make low post moves. John has said that he thinks the worst analytical play in basketball is the low post stuff. Has there been an adjustment offensively from last year to this year in terms of how much stuff they run? Because remember, early on in the year last year, it was a criticism in some of the close losses.
They didn't run a lot of stuff.
Meanwhile, At the end of the Florida game. Rant stuff had trust in Cam Boozer to make a decision. And we probably saw similar plays at the end of Arkansas and against Michigan State, too.
Well, that's one of the funniest parts of this. I think it's been three times now, specific situations. It was the end of the first half against Kansas. It was the end of the game against Florida. It was toward the end of the game against Michigan State.
Cam Boozer has been initiating offense at the top of the key. Isaiah Evans comes to set a screen and what's called a ghost screen, which is basically Isaiah Evans isn't there long enough to actually set the screen and for Cam Boozer to actually use the screen. And he'll flare to the left. wing And get a three-pointer. He made a three against Kansas.
He made the three to beat Florida. And he got fouled shooting the three. I think two guys hit him because Michigan State had scouted that. Clearly. But you get fouled shooting a three, you go make three free throws.
It's like you just made a three. Yeah. Connor O'Neill is in studio with us. One more on Duke. Um They're still unbeaten.
What are we, 10-0 or 11-0 now? 10. Duke is.
Okay. If they win. Against Lipscomb tomorrow night. Not only is it win-100 for John Shire. It's matching the best start that Dukes had since 2017, 2018.
That team started 11-0. It won all of its nonconference games and then opened up ACC play with a loss to Boston College to open up that conference season. That's just an opportunity to give Will Dalton a chance to play a drop he hasn't had to play in a while. Which is why it's taking longer. Boston College.
There it goes. Um. This team, it's winning games that last year it didn't. Maybe that's offensive adjustment. Maybe it's toughness, where at the end of the Houston game last year.
Final four, we saw mental toughness, maybe wasn't where you wanted it to be while this team seems tough as nails. How good do you think this team can be? Which sounds like a funny question to ask for a top three team. Yeah, this team can win a national championship. They don't have to be as analytically good as last year's team was.
Last year's team has the Kenpom National Championship, and that is all well and good and accomplishes nothing when you talk about hanging banners. Um What I look at is the way the Florida game played out, specifically the Florida game. You're leading for like 35 minutes of that game. Up by as many as 15. Pat Gongba takes an ill-advised three, a stagnant three against his own defense with 45 seconds left.
He misses. Boogie Flame comes down, makes a three. All of a sudden, you're down one. And You could hear a pin drop, if not for the few Florida fans in Cameron that night. It's like oh my gosh like They've choked this away.
They're going to lose this game to Florida. It's going to be ugliness that. Duke hasn't lost a home game in nearly two years. And then this team comes down and makes the right play. Cam Boozer makes the right play.
Isaiah Evans hits a shot that he hadn't hit all game. He's 0 for 7 from 3. And you look at it and it's like They still had to make two good defensive plays. Caleb Foster diving on the ball, Malik Brown on the deflection. But you look at the game script and how similar it was to Houston, where Duke was in control of that game and then everything went wrong.
They made so many losing plays down the stretch that lost them that game in San Antonio. And they couldn't come up with the one play that would win them the game. Like, Cooper Flag missed the. The shot in the middle of the lane.
So It's a tough comparison. Like, that's just one game from last season. And then you could pull the Kansas and Kentucky games and the Clemson games as well at Little John Coliseum.
Okay. The weirdest. Uh Pretty much all the games that were close. Yeah. Now, it sounds wrong to punish a team that was molly-whopping teams by a million.
And that's always been my thing with this discussion. It's like, are we supposed to criticize last year's team for not playing that many close games because they were so much better than teams when they needed to be? Like, were they supposed to let Hunter Salas come down and make some threes so that they could be tested more in the joel? No, that's not what you should have done, but it also, I mean, it tests you more when you get those chances. And then when you get to a spot where a team is on level ground.
How do you respond? Because Houston certainly was tested all throughout that year and proved to be tougher. Connor O'Neill is with us here. Let's shift the conversation. To Wake Forest.
Um. We were talking about Steve Forbes' 100 wins. 168 in his career. That is pretty much right at 60% win percentage. His predecessors floated at 41% and 40%, respectively, over the previous decade.
Uh There are a lot of people that will remind. Us. Steve Forbes isn't Skip Prosser. Steve Forbes isn't Dave Odom. Those two coaches have combined to win.
Or they each have 65% win percentages.
So, what I would say to the critical wake fan frustrated, you haven't been to the tournament in such a long time. Steve Forbes is closer to being Skip Prosser and Dave Odom than he is to being Danny Manning and Jeff Bezdelik. And that's a step. It might not be what Wake fans want to hear. But how do you square explaining what Steve has done and recognizing that versus what he hasn't done yet.
Yeah, it's funny. Last night I just had this conversation with Gary Strickland, the longtime scorebookkeeper. I think I think everybody or some people even call him keeper. Yeah. Um I think back often to The week that Steve was hired, like talking to him on the phone shortly after he was hired.
Um, He has done most of what he said he was going to do at Wake Forest. They have won games, they've won big games. They have pumped energy back into the fan base that was dead for a decade. Um They have They have played exciting basketball. Like whether you like or don't like The results.
They have put an entertaining product on the court for five years. Four straight seasons, they've had. They're the only ACC team that could say this currently. They had first team all ACC players on their roster. And might have another one with Drew Karris this year.
Yeah. The the The nuance of this is they haven't done the one thing that he said that they were going to do. Like the. Not the one thing they said they were. There's still one thing out there.
Like, there is one unchecked box on the list of things that he said he was going to do, that he wanted to do when he took the job. and it's get Wakeforce back to the NCAA tournament. He knows that. Steve's not dumb. Like he knows that that is an unchecked box.
It's it's this I'm probably not using this the right way. It's this hanging Chad. Of what he needs to do as Wake Forest's coach. And the bad luck is, and this is the part where it sounds like, what do the kids say? You're simping, right?
That's like a thing that kids say. Yeah, you're simp. But this is. Reality. We're talking about the ACC this year looking stronger than it has since 2019.
It is factual. It is not up for debate. that there is no program that has been punished more By the ACC being down over the last four years than Wake Forest has, where somebody told me with a straight face. We need a coach that could have us finishing at the top of the ACC. And I said I They had a double buy in the ACC tournament last year.
They finished top five in this league three out of the last four years, haven't made the tournament.
So it's It just so happened these four years corresponded with the worst tournament. outputs the league has seen in modern history. And That's not Steve's fault. But now that the league seems better, It does seem this year there are going to be more opportunities. Especially if you include Vanderbilt added to this on Sunday as well.
For Steve to have quad one opportunities that he was talking about all last year, he never had. And that's what you don't want to look past the Lancers of Longwood on Wednesday night, but I kind of do want to look past the Lancers to skip ahead to Sunday because I just find it disrespectful. You're. You didn't make that same joke about Lipscomb. PAVING!
I I'm still Against Duke. Their Kempom rank is actually a lot higher than I thought it was going to be. They're on a five-game winning stream. Oh, so you were saying Lipscomb would handle the Lancers? I think so.
A lot of alliteration: Lipscomb versus the Lancers of Longwood. Yeah, it's a shame. I'm not sure they're in the same conference. They're probably not. But.
Vanderbilt is an important game. It's not Like in in years past in the scope of what the ACC has been in years past. If Wake had the same type of non-conference performance. We'd be looking at Sunday as. If Wake loses this game to Vanderbilt, they're not going to make the tournament.
Unless they go like 16 and 2 in the ACC. Like, unless they have this incredible run in the ACC. I'm like. win at Cameron or win in Louisville or uh Something like that.
Now I have a winning record.
Now you're looking at it like. Yeah. Winning against an undefeated Maribel team would be awesome, and it'd be a great resume booster. And we would talk about Wake as a potential NCA tournament team through Christmas. But you're not looking at it as the last bastion of hope.
Like they beat Memphis. They took Michigan to overtime. And even though it's a loss, it's a really good. Resume boosting. Hold a minute.
I was told after every single one of Wake's losses so far this year that this means that everything's awful, the sky's falling. Yeah, man, Wake fans need to cut this out, by the way. And I've been dealing with it with Panther fans today as well, and really the last few losses. Every time the Panthers lose, every time Wake Forrest loses, it's the sky's falling. This guy needs to go, this quarterback, this coach, and it's just exhausting.
I think it's a social media thing where every single game has to be a referendum on the entire program. I think I'm borrowing from Will Wade and what he talked about on Saturday after the Kansas game. Oh, you heard that? I did. I don't know if I heard it as much as I just saw people talking about it or quoting it.
I've read Brendan's story on Sunday. Yeah, there was a question asked to Will Wade after the game, and he. didn't understand the question. He didn't get it. He's like, wait, what are you talking about?
Like, he was unaware of what you're talking about. Make sure you got that on camera. Yes, we did. We did, Will. But he, yeah, he didn't hear, he hasn't heard any of the referendum talk about Will Wade.
Oh, okay. And it seems sincere. Good on him. He seems like a guy who's online quite a bit. Yes.
Yes. But getting back to it, I mean, we don't have to do this. We don't have to have every single game be an end-all be-all. And You can let things develop and you can let things marinate. And especially getting back to the crux of this.
You can let things marinate when you have an ACC that isn't filled with a bunch of Q3 games. Like, you have some. I mean, Florida State, B.C., and Pitt are all look awful. Syracuse just lost a Hofstra at home. They fell off the mountain.
They didn't understand the assignment. Syracuse has a talented team. They do not have a talented coach. You said it. But You look at the programs like where Carolina has gotten back to because of the Caleb Wilson effect.
You look at where Duke and Louisville are looking like two of the best teams in the country. Oh, you mean it matters that the brands that have won national championships? Yes, we're counting Louisville in 2013 in the last 12 years are playing as such. That matters. Football, maybe take notes.
You're talking about what Jay Lucas has done at Miami. You're talking about what Ryan Odom has already done at Virginia. Micah Shrewsbury might have something cooking at Notre Dame, even without Marcus Burton. And Jalen Harrelson's really good. The strength of the ACC is probably going to play a factor in.
Wake's strength in the next three months and whether Wake can punch that ticket. Yeah. Has been out there. I know. Back and forth on whether they made the tournament or not in 17.
If you get a trip to date and you made the tournament, you just didn't make the field of 64. Yeah. But That's neither here nor there. The ACC strength is something to be encouraged about with Wake Force right now. Let's close with this.
You had a Heisman vote. Fernando Mendoza is the Heisman Trophy winner. I take it he was at the top of your ticket. He was. The only outlier on my ballot was I had Jacob Rodriguez second.
Um I typically I feel like I've kind of developed into Giving the defensive guys a little more love than other voters typically do. Look at. Uh a guy on a top four team in the country. Who had 120-some tackles, I think, was around the ball constantly. I think he had like seven forced fumbles.
Maybe two recoveries, a couple interceptions, a bunch of pass deflections. You think about what linebackers do and how demanding of a position that is, and where Texas X defense was all year. I thought that was very worthy of a second-place Heisman vote. And then I had Diego Pavia third, which I regretted when I started seeing all the stuff going out about his reaction afterward. Who trashed their reputation more over a weekend?
Notre Dame last weekend or Diego Pavio this weekend? The crux of the answer there has to be: well, who had the worst reputation going in? Uh-huh. I guess if you already knew everything, there was if you were already annoyed by Notre Dame, it was just affirmation. With Diego Pavia, I find this happening in college football all the time.
It's like, really, that's the first time you hear these guys speak, and it's like, oh, We knew Fernanda Mendoza. He was fabulous to deal with Cal.
So that wasn't a surprise. There are some people just now learning, and we didn't know who Johnny Manzel was like. We didn't know what he was like at all until he won the Heisman Trophy. I still remember being in the Burlington Times News office and having conversations with Bob Sutton because he was a Heisman voter, and I was not at the time. And Bob was.
We went back and forth for an hour while we were laying out the paper. It's not like we. heatly debated for an hour, but Bob sat there and said, Why haven't they let him talk all year? I want to know about that. And I don't think Bob voted for him for the Heisman that year based on.
He didn't feel like the character aspect The box had been checked because they didn't let him talk and because You just didn't know and Bob was right. It might be harsh. I don't think the next chapter is going to be kind of Diego Pavia. And I'm not talking about him being on an NFL team. I'm talking that's the least of it.
I'm. I uh They're whatever his next chapter is. I think we might hear about it, and it's going to be. Oh. That's all I'll say on that.
Connor O'Neill. You're the best. I hope You have a very Merry Christmas, and we appreciate all you do for us on this show. Thank you. I appreciate it.
