Would a Trump Victory Hold Back the Romans 1 Tidal Wave? Part 1 of 2

Would a Trump victory hold back the Romans 1 tidal wave? Today is part one of that topic with James White right here on the Christian Real View Radio program where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host. The Christian Real View is a listener-supported radio ministry. Thank you for your notes of encouragement, financial support, and lifting us up in prayer. Our website is thechristianrealview.org, and the rest of our contact information will be given throughout the program today. In the opening chapter of the Apostle Paul's letter to the Romans, he describes God rejecting mankind who, quote, suppressed the truth in unrighteousness, whose, quote, foolish hearts were darkened, who, quote, exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and who worshiped themselves and their pleasures rather than the Creator. God's judgment on these rebels is the wrath of abandonment, where God, quote, gives them over to plunge deeper into their sin.

When this occurs, wickedness explodes. Heterosexual immorality becomes homosexual immorality, becomes a, quote, depraved mind which takes delight in and gives, quote, hearty approval to all manner of iniquity. The United States of America, though founded with Christian values, has descended over the decades into a Romans 1 society.

What God established with regard to, let's say, marriage and morality and gender, truth, life itself, is now vehemently rejected. And as we near a pivotal election, half or more of the electorate will vote for the Democratic Party, who are the loud and proud leaders of our Romans 1 society, who seek to normalize and expand their sinful, quote, unquote, freedoms. The Republican Party, on the other hand, is trailing a decade or two behind. Who would have thought that the GOP would abandon its former commitment to protect unborn humans in the womb? Who would think they would give up the fight for the family and go silent on unnatural so-called marriages and child-rearing?

But moving left is what has happened on these and other issues, such as illegal immigration and spending. Donald Trump has led the Republican Party since becoming president in 2016. Now running for re-election in 2024, he has sniffed the wind in the country and concluded that to get elected, he needs to give our Romans 1 nation more of what it wants.

And yet the alternative to Trump in our only two viable party system is Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, who advocate for the ungodly and un-American ideology of Marxism. So what are biblical Christians to think and do in this election and going forward? James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a decades-old apologetic ministry based in Phoenix, Arizona, and he's also the host of the popular podcast called The Dividing Line. A skilled debater, anti-abortion advocate, seminary professor, and pastor at Apologia Church in Arizona, James joins us today and next week on The Christian Worldview to discuss a wide range of issues, from how we arrived at this point in America, to the compromise in the evangelical church, to abortion, voting integrity, to whether a Trump victory would hold back the Romans 1 tidal wave. We hope you gain from hearing from a sharp Christian who recognizes the reality of our Romans 1 moment and offers strong biblical insight.

Let's get to the interview with Dr. James White. James, it has been a very long time since you have been on The Christian Worldview radio program. Unfortunately, we know we have listeners who didn't hear the last time you were on the program, so I'd like to start out by just asking you to tell us briefly about your background, how you became a follower of Christ, and what your life is like now. I was raised in a Christian family. I was converted at a very young age.

My dad was a pastor for many years, so I have been very blessed along those lines. My mom told me a story, and I remember it at age nine. She took me to work one day. She worked at a print shop, and she looked around, couldn't find me, and went back into the print shop and found me talking to the guys running the printing presses who were atheists, and I remember that.

They looked like mountains to me. So I've been involved in that kind of stuff for a long, long time, but it was early in college after I was married. I'm so thankful I got married at a young age. My wife and I have been married for 42 plus years, and we have five grandkids, and hopefully we'll be able to get to see my great grandkids.

That would be great. But anyway, two more missionaries came by my sister-in-law's house, and that's what started Elders Reed and Reese. I was already a Bible major, but I added a Greek minor and really became focused on that, and Alpha Omega Ministries was founded 41 years ago this month. So we've been at it for a while now, and I'm one of the pastors at Apologia Church in Mesa, Arizona, which is the home church of End Abortion Now with Jeff Durbin. Luke Pearson and Zach Morgan were the four elders at the church there, and there we go. Only the Lord's blessing can keep you in ministry for that long, so it's great to hear your background, James.

And just one more personal question before we get into our topic about this election and things going on in the country. Who have been the, let's say, two or three key influencers in your life that have shaped your worldview? I would credit R.C. 's role with having had a real helpful impact theologically. Interestingly enough, I would have had very strong disagreement with R.C. on his Thomism.

R.C. would blow a top, but as far as theology proper, I would just say there was real consistency there with the dear brother. But Greg Bahnson, his debate with Gordon Stein was one of the first introductions I had to meaningful apologetics and worldview thinking.

And of course, interestingly enough, Apologia Church is now the host of Bahnson U. We have all of his debates, sermons, lectures, everything the Bahnson family gave to us, and we have that available for free online for people. So just a polymath of fascinating understanding of Scripture and world history and stuff. Francis Schaeffer was really important when I was first really starting to struggle with these things and starting to deal with worldview issues and the interface between your theology and your worldview. So yeah, those were all really, really important. And look, I think the most important book written in the past millennium for me as far as just really showing me the beauty of consistency in theology was the Institutes of Christian Religion by John Calvin.

Now of course, I get into book four and I go, that's not as consistent as it used to be. But in the overarching things, doctrine of God, doctrine of man, those things, that was vitally important for me as well. And then I was deeply influenced by B.B.

Warfield. His material in the Trinity was just so helpful when being challenged in those areas. That's helpful to understand who you are and for listeners to understand. James White is with us here today on the Christian Real View Radio program. Our topic we're going to get into now is, would a Trump victory hold back the Romans 1 tidal wave that is going on in our society today? And James, in recent programs we've been doing, we've been talking about more the Democratic side with Kamala Harris and Tim Walz.

Of course, Walz is from the governor of her own home state here in Minnesota. But I'd just like to ask you sort of a meta question first about the trajectory of our society, let's say, over the last 60-70 years. How did the United States become a Romans 1 18-32 society? What are some of the contributing factors that have led to where we are today?

Our society had tremendous light, just as the UK, for example, I used to visit the UK all the time and Christianity is chiseled into the walls everywhere you go in London. We had tremendous light and we became first apathetic about it. Once you become apathetic about a gift, then you start to disdain the gift and now we hate the gift.

And so, amazingly enough, I would say one of the key issues was a lack of thanksgiving. When you're given much by God, much is required from you. And when you stop being thankful for the gifts you've been given, you start loving the negation of those gifts. So we were given clear understanding of God's nature as our creator, who we are, and we love to negate all of that. So we've attacked marriage, we've attacked sexuality, male, female.

Our origin is the creatures of God. It's what happens when a people are given over. And it happened over time, didn't happen overnight. The church in general backed away from speaking prophetically to the society. I was raised with the myth of neutrality, that is, the idea that you can be neutral to Christ's claims.

I was raised in that milieu. Not everybody believed that, but certainly the independent fundamentalist Baptist background I had was very, very connected to the concept that the state is a neutral player. And we don't have to speak to the state, we don't have to inform the state as to what God's purposes are. When I was a kid, we still sang God bless America in public schools. Well, God bless America assumes a theology. The only way to seek God's blessing is to be obedient to his ways. Sin is a rebuke upon any nation. Bless is a nation whose God is Yahweh. These are basic statements of scripture, and generations before us understood it, but then really it seems after, especially after World War II, started after World War I, but when you have massive death experiences like that, societies will either respond to that in a God-honoring fashion or in a rebellious fashion. And it took us a while, but we've rebelled, and our leaders have rebelled, and our institutions have rebelled, and of course the mainstream denominations have rebelled, and so we are facing rebellion. And so the answer to the question, would a Trump victory stop the tsunami of Romans 1?

No, not at all. I've actually said to myself, and I've said on my program, I feel somewhat selfish hoping for a Trump victory because it would give me, at least maybe, if he's allowed to live, to be honest with you, four more years of being able to travel and minister with relative freedom? And is that enough to ask the Lord for something like that?

And I'm also thinking about my grandkids. What world are they going to be living in if Marxism becomes the leadership of the land? I don't know how anyone can listen to Harrison Walls and not go, excuse me, but have you been reading Das Kapital recently? All this equity stuff is straight out of Lenin and Marx. This is where we are. We are literally in a situation where we're voting between descending into the Marxist pit or standing on the edge of it, because just simply electing a non-Marxist for four years doesn't stop the massive trend that is already there, especially with the younger generations that clearly don't have a clue. They weren't taught these things. Well, they were indoctrinated in the public indoctrination system to misunderstand these things and to be deceived about these things. And that's where we are.

So my grandkids are being homeschooled and they know the difference. But sadly, a large portion of the electorate doesn't. And besides that, I live in Maricopa County, so I'm probably the second worst place outside of Chicago, as far as election fraud is concerned. So will my vote even appear someplace?

I personally have very strong doubts that it will, but that's where we are. And I've been talking way too long, so I'll stop there. Well, you actually brought up about five topics that we're going to dive into a little bit more today about the various reasons why we are where we are. James White is our guest from Alpha and Omega Ministries. We have all links to what he's doing at our website, thechristianrealview.org. We follow him on X or Twitter. It's a great page to follow in his regular, almost daily radio program, The Dividing Line. So we have links to all of that at our website, thechristianrealview.org.

Okay, we need to get to our first break here. But before we do, just a couple of clarifying points on some of the things that James White said in the first segment. He mentioned how the Democratic Party and the ticket of Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are Marxist. They're after equity. This isn't just a label to marginalize them. No, Harris and Walz are actually Marxist, even though they probably wouldn't admit it. They believe in an all-powerful state dictating laws and economics, forcing equal outcomes through redistribution of tax income and other typical Marxist socialist policies. Just listen to what Kamala Harris has to say here about equity. It has to be about a goal of saying everybody should end up in the same place. And since we didn't start in the same place, some folks might need more equitable distribution. So there's a big difference between equality and equity. Equality suggests often everybody should get the same thing. Well, that often assumes everybody started out in the same place, as opposed to equity, which is everyone should end up in the same place. And if you then understand not everybody started out in the same place, you understand some people need more.

So we all end up in the same place. Well, that right there by Kamala Harris is just straightforward Marxism. Marx wrote this famous line, quote, from each, according to his ability to each, according to his needs. That's equity, forced outcomes, where the state coercively takes from some and gives it to others that they deem needy.

This isn't charitable, by the way, this is by force. Okay, another soundbite. Listen to what Kamala Harris says here about being woke. You know, we have to stay woke. Like, everybody needs to be woke. And you can talk about if you're the wokest or woker, but just stay more woke than less woke.

Yeah. Now, woke is a code word for being awake or aware of social injustice, which is code for the Marxist oppressor versus oppressed worldview that those the state deems oppressors need to be overthrown. Again, more Marxism from Kamala Harris.

And finally, this line that she uses all the time is another example. The point about progress is to have the ability to have a vision and a belief and some faith in what can be unburdened by what has been. There's another example of Marxism.

Progress or progressive is a code word. That means moving forward with leftist policies and what can be, this is saying the future utopian Marxist vision, what can be unburdened by what has been. The backward way, the traditional American way that is racist, sexist, homophobic, white-centered, male-centered, that needs to be thrown out. And finally, just one more soundbite by her running mate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, who just openly says that socialism, which is akin to Marxism, can be considered just being a good neighbor. Don't ever shy away from our progressive values. One person's socialism is another person's neighborliness.

Just do the d*** work. So it should be abundantly clear when you listen to these soundbites. When James White says the Democratic Party and Harris Walz are Marxists, he's exactly right. Their policies and their words reveal that. Don't be deceived.

There has been an attempted Marxist takeover of our constitutional system for a long time now, and it's becoming more and more apparent just how close they are getting. Now, James mentioned a few other things that you may not have heard of as well. He mentioned that R.C. Sproul was a Thomist.

What's that? I'll ask him to explain that further next week, but briefly, I want to look that up on GotQuestions, and it said Thomism is the system of philosophy developed by Thomas Aquinas, a Catholic scholar. Aquinas harmonized the philosophy of Aristotle with Christian theology, creating a system that became among the most influential in history. Thomism is strongly grounded in reason, specifically in opposition to blind faith. I won't get more into it now.

We'll talk about it more next week. James also mentioned a key influence on his life by Greg Bahnsen. He was a well-known Christian apologist in the late 20th century. He was reformed theologically, covenantal in his interpretation of scripture. He was a reconstructionist, theonomist, and he was post-millennial in his eschatology. Now, we at the Christian worldview don't hold to some of these viewpoints. We are more dispensational in our understanding of scripture and definitely premillennial in our eschatology. Now, we know that James holds differing views than ours on some of these issues, but we are very much aligned with his understanding of justification by faith, the inerrancy of scripture, and other core doctrines.

It's sort of like John MacArthur and R.C. Sproul, how they differed in some areas, but still were friends and partnered where they could in ministry, and that is our approach with James White as well. We'll ask him about some of these things next week. We can consider it a learning process to understand how different Christians come to different conclusions from scripture. All right, we'll take our first break to tell you about some ministry updates and resources, but we have much more coming up in the next video.

Coming up with Dr. James White, I'm David Wheaton. You are listening to the Christian worldview radio program. You have a left-wing foundation that realizes it has a problem advancing its political goals because of evangelicals, and so they will think, okay, what we need to do is find some mechanism by which we can change evangelical minds. They will then recruit well-known organizations like the National Association of Evangelicals, the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities, and denominational organizations. That was recent guest Megan Basham talking about how evangelical leaders traded the truth for a leftist agenda, which is the subtitle of her best-selling book, Shepherds for Sale.

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Or you can order one DVD that includes three episodes for a donation of any amount. Order by phone at 1-888-646-2233, by mail at Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331, or online at thechristianworldview.org. Welcome back to the Christian Real View.

I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit our website, thechristianrealview.org, where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print letter, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry. Our topic today is, would a Trump victory hold back the Romans 1 title wave?

Today is part one with Dr. James White, director of Alpha and Omega Ministries. You mentioned secular education, James. Of course, the media and entertainment industry has played into this decline. Just the prosperity of this country, I think, makes people soft. The corrupting influence of sin, just the way it permeates a society.

But you also mentioned the church, that the church bears some responsibility for not pushing back against this decline, this downward spiral into Romans 1. I want to play a soundbite from David Platt, a well-known evangelical pastor. He recently commented on an issue in our society right now that's right in front of us with illegal immigration. Here's what he had to say.

I'll play it, and then I want to follow up with you with a question about it. Here's David Platt. It's a problem when Christians in the United States are the most resistant to refugees in our communities. We believe Acts 17, God orchestrates the movement of peoples among the nations, that they might be found by Him. And the way God has put in so many communities where we live, people from other places in the world, even from places specifically in the world that have little to no access to the gospel, where it's hard to get to those places, God's brought people from those places to our doorsteps, right outside where we live and where we work. So let's be intentional to love them with the love of Christ, to help them amidst all the challenges they're walking through, just as a picture of doing justice and loving mercy, loving our neighbors as ourselves. And as we do that, let's share the greatest news in the world with people from the nations that God has brought to our neighborhood. Okay, so that was Pastor David Platt, well-known author of the book Radical and Others, pastor out in Virginia, I believe. Very persuasive to many evangelicals in this country saying, hey, never mind the fact that millions of illegal immigrants are coming across our border into this country.

Never mind the crime and everything else associated with it, the taxing of our system. This is an opportunity for the gospel. No one's ever going to argue against proclaiming the gospel. Right. So let's not even bother going there, but the problem is the way it was being presented, these are refugees. No, they're not.

They're invaders. There's no world war going on in Central and South America. Are those countries as well off as we are? No, they're not.

But why aren't they? Well, Venezuela chose socialism. We're choosing socialism. Immigration is fine. This is not immigration.

A nation without borders will die very, very quickly, and we do not have a southern border. So when you allow millions and millions of people in un-vetted, you're talking terrorists, you're talking gangs, we're now seeing this, the violence is astonishing. It is not a quote-unquote gospel issue.

You're talking about individuals here who are literally being invited to come here, given money, they're given preferential treatment, and it's being stolen from us and from our children. The problem with plat and people like that, they don't have the concept of God's law as providing a framework for understanding what justice even is. And so if you buy a worldly definition of justice and mercy and you try to hover it over with a little bit of religiosity, the result is always the social gospel and the mess that that results in.

If you want to do the things that plat's talking about, we've been sending missionaries to these countries forever. What was wrong with that? Putting us in a situation where our wives can't go to the grocery store because they are afraid of the violence on our streets. I live in the fifth largest city in the United States, and the degradation that is taking place on the streets of this city in just the past six years, the decline is astonishing. I live near a canal in the valley. I used to ride my bike along that canal.

There were bike paths, I've ridden thousands and thousands and thousands of miles along that bike path because it was the safest place to be. I can't do it anymore. All the underpasses are homeless communities filled with human feces and needles and drugs. It's not safe and they're coming into our neighborhoods. That's not good for them. The drug trafficking, the fentanyl, the sex trafficking of having an open border is gross injustice. And so it's not good for them, it's not good for us. It's pure absurdity and it is clearly intended simply to destroy this nation which stood against the various forces that want to create the very dystopianism. It's like, no people, 1984 was meant to be fiction. It's not meant to be the guidepost as to how we're supposed to be doing things or any of the other things are out there.

So, there's a balance and unfortunately we've lost the balance. For example, I'm deeply concerned right now that I am seeing from Christians a detestation of people groups. So, I don't have a detestation for Jews.

There's a lot of that out there, even amongst Christians. Muslims, good grief. I mean, maybe your audience doesn't know, but I've stood in mosques all around the world and proclaimed the gospel and debated leading Islamic scholars and demonstrated that you can love the Muslim people and share with the Muslim people and proclaim the gospel to the Muslim people. I love them and unfortunately the vast majority of Christians are just afraid of them or detest them. This whole crusader stuff going on is just astonishing.

So, it's not a matter of hating people groups, but we're talking about invasion here. That's completely different than going to someone and presenting the gospel to them. It's almost like he's saying, well, let's just invite the whole world to collapse our nation in upon itself and then we will share the gospel with them. Why don't we look to people like Adoniram Judson and people like that that blazed the trail to do the kind of merciful proclamation of the gospel in other places and lift them up instead of destroying what's already been built?

Why not lift the whole world up? Which is sort of what the United States was doing for a while anyways, but isn't really anymore. Now we primarily export rainbow colored flags rather than things that actually improved the life of people in other places. So, I think the primary problem with the evangelical, evangelical jellyfish type of approach is there's no recognition that God's law tells us how we are to love our neighbors. See, the very idea you can identify who a neighbor is versus a foreigner means that borders are necessary. And once you've gotten rid of that, you don't have neighbors anymore. You can no longer tell the difference between a neighbor that you should be ministering to and an invader who's going to try to kill your wife.

That's a problem. James White is our guest today here on the Christian Royal View with Alpha and Omega Ministries. AOMIN.org is the website. We also have links to him at our website, thechristianroyalview.org. Just a very brief follow up on that question about David Platt because he was, I believe, one of the people mentioned in Megan Basham's recent book, Shepherds for Sale. This has received a lot of pushback from the evangelical community, of course, because many of them are named. The thesis of the book is basically how the political left has targeted and is influencing, either through funding and other means, the evangelical church and its leaders. How accurate do you think that is an explanation for where our country is today and where the evangelical church is today? Well, you know, I got to listen to the book on my last trip.

I was up in Colorado and doing some debates and things. So I had never had an interest in doing all of the legwork that Megan did in checking donation records and stuff that is public stuff. I mean, you know, if you know where to find it, you can check that stuff out. There was nothing in the book that really surprised me because it had been very obvious to me for a long time that there were certain organizations that were very much left leaning and were getting money from some place. I just didn't have the skill or the interest to be digging into where the money was coming from.

She does and did. And that's why the pushback has been there is because follow the money. And when you see the influence of non-Christian organizations on seminaries and things like that, I knew the names pushing back against this stuff today, publicly, long before anybody else knew them. And that's Michael Fallon, as you know. In fact, that's how we met, as I recall.

I don't remember the exact context of that, but Mike had something to do with it. Anyway, he's been telling me for a long, long time that this money is going into the seminaries. It's influencing their selection of professors, which then influences what's being taught in the seminary and that kind of stuff. And I saw this as a person involved with these things. I saw this lurching other directions, but didn't have all the data as to exactly who is throwing the money in there. I guess that's one advantage to being a small ministry. Even though Alpha Omega has a very large audience, it's only because we've been doing this for so long. We only have two employees, we don't own our own building. We've always been lean and mean and therefore not overly influenceable by people with big bank accounts.

We've always been supported by the little people. And I've always said, I need that. I need to be able to speak the truth no matter what it is. I can't sit here.

I'm not smart enough to run a filter going, oh, can't talk about that because I couldn't offend that giver. If I had to get to that point, I'd give up. Yeah. James White with us today here on the Christian worldview. James, you talked about Marxism, one of your early answers today. And I want to play another soundbite of you, actually, recently on your own program Dividing Line.

I'll let you follow up with a comment. A lot of discussion online right now about voting and the Christian conscience. And very little of it is about voting for the Marxists. If you vote for Marxists, you're voting for your own enslavement. You're voting to enslave. You're voting to close your church, enslave you and your families, your children, your grandchildren, and to enshrine Darwinian secular humanism as the religion of the state. Now it already is in many ways.

So, James, that was you just recently on your own program. People would listen to that and say, well, you're overplaying the hand here. You're trying to scare people. But what leads you to think that Harrison Walls are indeed Marxists? Tell us why. And why do you think the impact of these two on the country will be different than predecessors in the Democratic Party like Obama?

People considered him a socialist Marxist or Joe Biden in his administration. Why is such a bleak, a more bleak future going forward? 2020 changed everything.

The masks are coming off. The left has seen just how far people can be pushed and will accept totalitarianism. The Twitter files, there needs to be more of those released. The Facebook letter just less than two weeks ago. Censorship, I mean, the massive shift that has taken place up until recently, the left had to move somewhat slowly, had to avoid certain language.

That's all changed now. And so, the speed with which things are going now, certainly leaves older folks like me somewhat disoriented, to be honest with you. It's just happening so quickly, so fast. And the younger generations, that's what they're used to. They wouldn't know what to do if society was the same six months from now as it is today. They're just used to such radical change.

And so, I'm not overplaying anything. I'm telling people, you need to understand, I absolutely firmly believe that if Harris Waltz win this thing, and I honestly have about a 3% confidence in the integrity of the election. Now, I mean, there's going to be cheating. That's become a given.

But I have about a 3% chance in my mind that it will be limited enough to allow an even semi-representational result up and down the ballot, but especially at the top. You asked about Joe Biden. The fact of the matter is, Harris knew that he was mentally incompetent. Everybody around him knew he was mentally incompetent. We knew that. I said that before the election. I was clear about that from the beginning.

Harris does not have the age excuse, and yet she's a word salad as well. So, these are not the people that are running things. But when you listen to her explain equity, like I said earlier, you don't have to do that.

You've been reading Das Kapital. You're talking about what all socialist, Marxist, communist regimes do. You bring everybody down to the same level of misery, except for the elites who are in control, who live the life of luxury. That's what the Soviet Union was all about. That's what China has always been about.

And China has only managed to avoid what happened to Soviet Union by building in some level of profit for some of its people, and to give them enough stuff to keep them happy. They're basically appealing to the lusts of the flesh to keep people happy enough to go, yeah, I know I'm not free. I know I can't believe what I want to believe, but I've got my internet.

I'm fulfilling my lusts, and so I'm good. So, that's how they've done it. And I have a feeling that's exactly what's in store for us in the future. But if you can't see Walt's connections to the CCP historically, the things he said about Chinese communism, promoting it, things like that, if you can see that her discussion of equity is Marxist.

She supports what's going on in Brazil with X. If you don't recognize, that's the end of the dividing line, and that's the end of this program too, in a very short period of time. Because all you got to do is come up with some kind of national emergency, whatever that might be, monkey pox, a new form of covid, whatever. Or the fact that we can't pay our bills anymore.

That 75% of collected taxes immediately go to the interest on the national debt. And that once that goes to 100%, and it's going there very, very quickly, we default, and the world goes into depression. Because if we go down, China goes down.

China's economy only exists because we're pumping it full of money, because we've borrowed so much of that money. Once something like that happens, then it's like, we need full control, we need to stop disinformation and misinformation in our conversations, and we are literally in 1984 overnight. As a Christian theologian, as a post-millennial Christian theologian, people, God's just so dark. Well, the reality is, God will not be mocked. This nation, Western culture, we have blood dripping from our hands. There's a lot about something called blood guiltiness in scripture, and we have blood dripping from our hands.

When you have the White House with rainbow colored lights on it, that is a massive middle finger extended toward heaven. The nation is saying, do your best, saying to God, we don't want your blessing, we want your greatest curse, and we're going to openly call for it, and that's what we've been doing. And most Christians are afraid to say to their children, let alone to their neighbors, this nation is walking in open defiance against God's ways, what He has revealed. We're mocking God, and there will be a result from that, and this is the way out. Here's how you individually, your family, your city, your community, your state, can avoid this but we don't want to talk about judgment, we don't want to talk about sin. I don't want to be the guy walking down the street in the sandwich sign, the end is near. If you want to show love for the people around you, and there's a tsunami, you can see it on the horizon, and it's getting closer, and when it gets here, there's going to be no safe place, and you keep your mouth shut. That's not showing love to the people around you in any way, shape, or form. So being that prophetic voice without turning into the Westboro Baptist group, that's really the challenge on how to do it graciously. Not non-offensively, but to do it in such a way that you do it. As I have been redeemed, I'm a sinner, I have found life, here's how the rest of us can do it.

That's what I'm trying to model for my grandkids, because they're the ones that are going to be picking up the pieces. I'm old enough, I mentioned before the program started, this is my first radio interview wearing my brand new hearing aids. Wow, it's amazing what I can hear now.

I will probably be around for the collapse, but not very long after that, it's going to be my grandkids, my great-grandkids, it's going to fall to them to have such a strong foundation that they'll be able to say, here's how we rebuild. James White with us today on the Christian Real View Radio program of Alpha and Omega Ministries. You can find links to what he's doing in his radio program, his Twitter feed, and our website thechristianrealview.org. And we'll just pause briefly now to tell you about some ministry resources and updates.

Stay tuned more with Dr. James White coming up. I'm David Wheaton, and you are listening to the Christian Real View Radio program. This kind of worldview about identity has exploded, where people come along and say, if it's all about you, you need to actually work out who you are. It's actually immunizing a generation against the gospel, because the gospel comes into the picture and says, well, who are you? You're actually a sinner.

It's a negative answer to the question. You need a Savior. Look, the cross of Jesus Christ. Who did he die for if you're so good, if you're so worthy, if you have to pursue yourself as a good foundation for how to live? That was recent guest Martin Iles, executive CEO of Answers in Genesis and author of Who Am I?

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Again, the date is Monday, September 16th at Hazeltine in Chaska, Minnesota. To find out more and to register, go to thechristianrealview.org or call 1-888-646-2233. Welcome back to the Christian Real View.

I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit our website, thechristianrealview.org, where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print letter, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry. Our topic today is, would a Trump victory hold back the Romans 1 tidal wave?

Today is part one with Dr. James White, director of Alpha and Omega Ministries. James, you mentioned the blood on the hands of this country. We talk about the Holocaust often, and Hitler was the worst person in the world ever, and killing six or seven million people and Jews during World War II. But yet in this country, we've killed far more.

We have a greater even American Holocaust. I know what you are doing through your church down in Phoenix with the organization you have there about ending abortion. Trump, you talked about this recently in your program, has really been a bit of an enigma, I would say, on abortion. Of course, he nominated the justices that got put in place that overturned Roe versus Wade. But the reality is, since that took place, and as Trump continually repeats, is that we wanted to send it back to the states to make their own decisions. Well, it's going back to the states and very radical laws are being made state by state, at least in the blue states, to make abortion very radical. I think even more so than it was Roe versus Wade time. And then the fact that pro-life candidates, since that time when the Dobbs decision came down overturning Roe, the candidates have lost.

And so I think Trump saw that and he said, well, boy, for me to win re-election, this is not going to work. This is maybe not a pro-life country anymore. And so I want to play another soundbite.

This one's about a minute long. And the first half of it is about Trump commenting on the fact that he was going to vote, I believe it was against the amendment that would halt abortion at six weeks in Florida. They're going to be having on their ballot in November. He was saying, well, six weeks isn't long enough for women to be able to make a decision on an abortion. And immediately the pushback on social media and elsewhere from pro-life people was very strong against Trump. I think it was the next day, actually, that he came out and really reversed course on it. So he seems very malleable on this issue, but he's clearly not an abolitionist or really strongly pro-life either.

I want to follow up after this soundbite with a question for you. Here's Donald Trump flipping in a matter of one day on the issue of abortion. You overheard Roe and you want abortion to be a states rights issue in Florida, the state that you are a resident of. There's an abortion related amendment on the ballot to overturn the six week ban in Florida. How are you going to vote on that? Well, I think the six week is too short.

It has to be more time. And so that's and I've told them that I want more weeks. So you'll vote in favor of the amendment? I'm voting that I am going to be voting that we need more than six weeks. Look, just so you understand, everybody wanted Roe v. Wade terminated for years, 52 years.

I got it done. They wanted to go back to the states. Exceptions are very important for me, for Ronald Reagan, for others that have navigated this very, very interesting and difficult path. Okay, here's Trump the very next day after pressure from pro-lifers going back on what he had just said. Disagreed with that right from the early primaries when I heard about it, I disagreed with it. At the same time, the Democrats are radical because the nine months is just a ridiculous situation where you can do an abortion in the ninth month.

Some of the states like Minnesota and other states have it where you can actually execute the baby after birth. And all of that stuff is unacceptable. So I'll be voting no for that reason. Okay, so that wasn't a matter of a day. He had changed his position. So, James, abortion really amazingly is perhaps the central issue in this election.

Correct me if I'm wrong. When one would think that would be the inflation or immigration, illegal immigration, what you've already discussed, foreign wars, or the economy, Harris and Walz are very radical on abortion, just completely as radical as can be. Trump is limitedly in favor of abortion.

What are your what are your thoughts on the fact where Trump is? I know you personally struggled with this. You said on your program, like 20 years ago, you switched from not being a Republican to being independent. And you didn't like the way the Republican Party was funding pro-abortion candidates. And you talked about the fact that Christians of conscience are contorting themselves on this issue, knowing that how radical the Democrats are.

And yet, Trump is the only other viable candidate. Now, the GOP has been taken really out of their platform significantly. Talk us through what you were thinking in your mind, and as to how Christians should approach this in our present moment. I've said very clearly on the program, I fully understand, I have dear friends who simply cannot, in good conscience, vote for any candidate that is so lacking in basic, common worldview sense that they would not see what abortion is. They can't see the humanity of the unborn child.

They don't have a sufficient understanding that what they want for women to be able to kill is what they were. I think that's really where a lot of people they just can't even conceive the fact that that's what I was. I was once there. And I was unique at that point. If I think my genetics today are unique and they're what make me who I am, I was just as unique then. I was unique as soon as fertilization took place. And if that's what makes an individual an individual, then they're not in a position of really being pressed to be consistent in their worldview. And so I understand when someone says, I just can't do it.

Okay, I get it. I will vote for Donald Trump. I will be holding my nose. The man drives me crazy on so many different levels.

He is an egomaniac in many ways. I can look at the positive things. Well, at least we may not have a World War III. Well, that's good.

But the primary thing for me is real simple. Marxism ends the United States of America. And you have to be blind, deaf, and dumb not to see where Harrison Walls are, where the Democrats are today. And that, in my opinion, if they are successful stealing or just getting enough votes to together with the stealing to accomplish these things, if they win in a matter of weeks, and my gut feeling is they will. But if they win, and I want to be proven wrong, please, please, I want to be proven wrong. I'm praying against it. But that's my gut feeling. If they do, I don't think there will be a 2028 election where there will be any chance whatsoever of the mono party losing power or having reversal or anything else as something will happen. And so it's one thing to sit there and say, well, we need to punish the Republicans for what they did with their platform. They're going to be irrelevant.

This is not going to matter. From my perspective, oh, a doomsday. Look, I've read enough to know what Pravda was. I know what the Soviet Union was.

I know how they worked. I'm watching the Vuelta, the third of the grand cycling tours. I'm a big cyclist still. And every commercial in watching the Vuelta is either Diego, the Democratic senator candidate here in Arizona, or Harris walls. And it struck me yesterday, listening to another Harris ad, I've never heard her in any of these ads, say a word that was true. It's all lies. The press has become Pravda.

And so that's what we're going to be living with in the future. And sure, they have elections in China. They have elections in North Korea, they have elections in Russia, and we all know that they're a joke. And so from my perspective, every single election, the most important election in our lifetime, and you get tired of it, it's the boy who cried wolf, I get it.

But once you get to the point that we're looking at now, it is the most important election. Because if they're not at least slowed down at this point, it's done. And we will not be having this conversation for years in the future before 2028. Because we will have been taken off of having any type of access.

Because everything we say will be misinformation, disinformation. We already saw it happening. We've had a glimpse into it.

That's where it'll be. I fully understand the sensitive conscience. I'm not gonna tell somebody that you're sinning. I'm just simply saying, for the sake of our great-great-grandchildren, think about it.

Because this is what's coming. It is beyond sobering to consider the very real possibility of our beloved country, which started so well on Christian principles, is on the precipice of becoming a Marxist state in full rejection of the one who led Christians to come here for religious liberty. The good news, though, is whatever happens in this election, if you have been born again, if you have trusted in Christ as your Savior and Lord, you can rest in the we-and-us promise in Romans 8 for those who are members of God's family. Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I'm persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. You are invited to join us next week for part two with James White.

In the meantime, the Overcomer Foundation cup deadline is Monday, September 9th, and the silent auction for the event opens the same day. Thank you for joining us today in the Christian Worldview and for your support of this nonprofit radio ministry. Until next time, think biblically, live accordingly, and stand firm. The mission of the Christian Worldview is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. We hope today's broadcast encouraged you toward that end. To hear a replay of today's program, order a transcript, or find out what must I do to be saved, go to thechristianworldview.org or call toll-free 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Worldview is a listener-supported, non-profit radio ministry furnished by the Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, become a Christian Worldview partner, order resources, subscribe to our free newsletter, or contact us, visit thechristianworldview.org, call 1-888-646-2233, or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Thanks for listening to the Christian Worldview.