Journalist Cal Thomas on 50 Years Reporting on America

JOURNALIST CAL THOMAS IS OUR GUEST AS WE TALK ABOUT 50 YEARS REPORTING ON AMERICA RIGHT HERE ON THE CHRISTIAN REAL VIEW RADIO PROGRAM WHERE THE MISSION IS TO SHARPEN THE BIBLICAL WORLDVIEW OF CHRISTIANS AND TO PROCLAIM THE GOOD NEWS OF JESUS CHRIST. I'M DAVID WHEATON THE HOST. THE CHRISTIAN REAL VIEW IS A LISTENER SUPPORTED RADIO MINISTRY. YOU CAN CONNECT WITH US BY CALLING TOLL-FREE 1-888-646-2233 OR BY VISITING OUR WEBSITE THE CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW.ORG. We have two announcements that we're going to wait until the end of the program to make, and the first is the heaven-going of Stuart Epperson Sr., the co-founder of Salem Media Group, who went to be with his Lord and Savior this past week, and the second is a film called The Essential Church that we are recommending you watch here coming up as it's soon to be released.

But first, let's get to the preview for today's program. Cal Thomas is a radio and television commentator and one of the most widely syndicated columnists in America. Cal is also a Christian who seeks to serve God first and then my country, in his words. Now 80 years old and still going strong, Cal has seen and commented on an era of major transformation in our country.

In his new book, A Watchman in the Night, What I've Seen Over 50 Years Reporting on America, Cal starts in 1984 and goes year by year to 2022, providing insight on the major events that have shaped our nation. The book provides an interesting and helpful arc of perspective on the worldview transformation that has taken place in our country, proving what the Bible says, that righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Cal Thomas is our guest today on the Christian worldview, and much like listening to past interviews with my parents, if you've heard some of those who are slightly older than Cal, you will hear a similar type of insight and conviction that is anchored in the truths of Scripture. Cal, it's great to have you on the Christian worldview for the first time. Let's start out with the most important question. Tell us how you became a Christian and why.

The same way everyone else does, David, by the power of the Holy Spirit. I was on a fast track to become a network television correspondent by the time I was 30 at NBC News. And within three months of my 30th birthday, due to different circumstances, I was fired. And that led me to commit my life to Christ.

And my career went downhill for 11 years. But that's because there was a lot of me in me that God had to work out in order for him to fill me with himself. And I was asking for many years when I paid any attention to God at all to bless my plan for my life.

And he was saying, no, no, I have a better one for you, but you've got to get rid of this plan. But I'm going to give you something that's exceedingly abundantly above all that you ask or think when you get to the point of seeking to honor me first and not yourself. Cal Thomas joins us today on the Christian worldview. Cal, we all are a product of who or what influences us in life. Who or what have been the key influences in your life? I was blessed early on, even before I became a believer, to have a parent's two-parent home.

It took me to church. Great influences at NBC News when I was a copy boy at the age of 19, 20, 21. They became my mentors and friends. They taught me in many ways how to write. Dick Halverson, who was pastor at 4th Presbyterian Church in Bethesda, was the man I credit with leading me to Christ. Dr. Francis Schaeffer, the philosopher theologian, taught me how to think. And then there was a pastor in Houston where I was working for a local NBC affiliate who taught me sound doctrine. So these three men God put into my life to shape me in ways that I could use in my career and in my testimony to others, especially those of my colleagues in the media who I care very much about and to whom there are very few people who can present a witness because there are so few people who are believers in this business and that's a sadness of its own. Why do you think that is? Why is the media so predominantly from a leftist non-Christian viewpoint?

Is it self-selecting or what is it? Well, several things. A little history here. After the Scopes trial back in the 1920s, many believers withdrew from everything we now call the media. So that created a vacuum in these areas.

Now, one of the few things I learned in physics before I flunked table of contents was that nature abhors a vacuum and there are always pressures seeking to fill any vacuum in nature. And so if believers are not involved in these fields, whether it be government or the media or science, whatever it may be, it creates a vacuum for what I call the secular progressives to rush in and to fill it. So in many ways, a lot of the things that we criticize today happen to be from our own fault. So I decided that, look, I didn't think that the door was closed to me in the media and I would try to make a career out of it. And I did it, I think, with winsomeness, really caring about my colleagues, not denouncing them because some of them or maybe most of them were Democrats or liberals or non-believers, later being led by the Holy Spirit to reach many of them or at least reach them to explode the stereotype that believers are not lacking a sense of humor or that they are overly judgmental or hate very much.

They hate various groups or are against everything. I've used that, I think, to my advantage, not only in my career, but also as a believer in witnessing to others. Journalist and author Cal Thomas is our guest today here on The Christian Real View.

Cal, in those 50 years of being a journalist, did you change over those decades as far as what you thought the most important things were to address? I start with a standard, and that standard is nature. God gives us a standard for judging right from wrong, good from evil, righteousness from sin. And so I think there really is nothing new under the sun. The one thing that never changes is humanity.

You can change dress codes, you can change modes of transportation, you can change a lot of other things, but you can't change human nature. And so I start with that. And then I move on that, and I've asked over the years of my columns, and in a previous book I wrote called What Works? Let's keep those programs that are working and living up to their statutory authority and get rid of those that aren't. Businesses do that.

If you have a sales plan and your sales plan isn't working, then you'd be a fool not to change your sales plan. But only in government do things go on forever. I remember Ronald Reagan had a great line.

He said, the only proof of eternal Washington is a government program. Very funny, but it's also very profound, and it's true. I remember the late Roman Catholic bishop Fulton Sheen, who said many years ago, I think in the 50s probably, that America does not suffer from intolerance, as many say. America suffers from a broad-mindedness.

We tolerate everything now. In fact, we promote sin. Those things that once were regarded, certainly in my parents' generation, as an abomination, as God calls them, we now parade now in the streets as normal and acceptable and teach it in our schools and universities, and it's just getting worse and worse. But this is what happens to people and to nations that forget God. We are warned about this in Scripture. The Old Testament warns about it. Jesus warned about it.

Paul warned about it. What happens to individuals and nations that forget God? You know, I recall a satirical song written by the great Cole Porter in the 1930s called Anything Goes, and now today anything does go, and if you oppose it and say, you know, this is wrong behavior, then you're one of various kinds of phobes. You're a bigot.

You're a hater. You're a racist or whatever, and that causes a lot of believers to cower and to not speak out. I think you could speak out for the truth without demonizing other people or condemning them to hell. So that's what I've tried to do in my columns and also asking that secular progressive worldview. How's that working out for you in the country? Do you think they think the country's doing really well? They look at the crime in the cities. They look at inflation.

They look at the division in the country. Are they happy with where things are going? They think it's getting better.

They're going to create their own utopia here in America. How do you understand their perspective? Well, their perspective is a lot like a cult member.

Despite the evidence that what they believe in, these cultists, is wrong, they believe in it anyway, and we see that in many, many areas of life. More spending on education, for example. We always hear the left saying, we need to spend more on education. Well, we're spending more on education than we've ever spent in the history of the country and even the world, and yet we're getting fewer results. We've got people not being able to read at third and fourth grade level.

We have people whose degrees aren't worth anything. They're focusing on LGBTQ or critical race theory or a false history of the United States that because we indulge slavery for a while, it is the unforgivable sin and we can never absolve ourselves from it, despite having spent $11 trillion, according to the Heritage Foundation, on programs for poor and minorities to help them. So I really think that a lot of people who believe in these secular, progressive, Marxist, socialist ideas are self-deceived and they are like cult members. They have no other worldview.

This is it. They don't believe in heaven. They don't believe in God. They don't follow Jesus of Nazareth. And they think that this is all there is. Peggy Lee had a song years ago. The lyric said, if that's all there is to life, then let's break out the booze and have a ball, if that's all there is.

That's very true. The scripture says if Christ didn't rise from the dead, eat, drink, and be merry, there's no purpose to life. Cal Thomas is with us today here on the Christian Real View radio program. He's 80 years old and as you can tell, he's still got a lot of life and a lot of fight in him.

Great to have you on the program today. He's the author of a new book entitled, A Watchman in the Night. We have it linked at our website, thechristianrealview.org. The subtitle is, What I've Seen Over 50 Years Reporting on America. Cal, reading the book, it's like a retrospective on when you started in journalism. I think the book starts in the year 1984. George Orwell's book was titled that year. But you go year by year from 1984 up to the present, just talking about some of the major events and if it's based on your columns and some of your insights about what took place during those years.

I just want to read a blurb just for fun here because this is sort of interesting. You said, let's look at what things cost in the year 1985. The average cost of a new house was $89,000. Today in 2021, that was the last year you had the data, it was $340,000. A new car in 1985 averaged $9,000. Today it's around $40,000. Gasoline was just over a dollar per gallon, 109. And then recently in 2022, it fluctuated between three and four dollars per gallon, six or more in California.

Obviously, there's inflationary things going on there. But what was striking to me, Cal, was that the same issues then, issues of race and morality, the role of government, public education and curriculum, and so many other issues are the same that we're discussing today. But the left has now become far more extreme in what they advocate for, and the country is much more divided today. There's much more rancor in the country today.

Why do you think that is? Just a brief correction, my career really started when I was 16. I was a reporter before I became a columnist in 1984, so I had a lot of opportunities to cover various events, not only on Capitol Hill, but around the country. And later, when I committed my life to Christ, it gave me a perspective on some of these things.

You ask about the divisions. I think one of the causes is that the left is so angry that none of its policies are really working, that all they can do is ratchet up the anger. They can't admit that they were wrong. In our faith, the way you come to God is acknowledging that you were a sinner and repenting of that sin and then receiving Christ as Savior. Jesus said, no one comes to the Father but by me. I'm the way, the truth, and the life.

No one comes to the Father but by me. But for the left, for the secular progressives, they have nothing like this. They never have to apologize. They never have to repent.

They just add on more error to what they've already been doing, and they're expecting different results. This, as you know, is the definition of insanity. We who are followers of Jesus know we have the real answer, not only the eternal answer, but the immediate answer as well. We have a $32 trillion debt. No nation has ever been able to survive in history with that kind of debt. We have an open border. No nation has ever been able to survive without controlling its borders. And we have a loss of a shared moral value system. No nation has ever been able to survive without a shared moral value system.

So any one of those things have threatened to bring down other nations and empires, and they have. What makes the United States think we are unique? And by embracing debt, open border, and a loss of a shared moral values that we are going to prevail while others did not. So do you think that the values that the left promotes, the policies that they advocate for, not just advocate for, but they push so hard.

And as you mentioned earlier, if you object to what they want, you're a bigot, you're a hater, they castigate you, ad hominem attacks against you, is it that they are ignorant or just blind to the fact that their policies and worldview is so destructive? Or is there something intentional about this that they're actually trying to transform and completely transition our country with its Christian founding to something completely different? Is it intentional?

Yeah, I think it's intentional. You mentioned blind. You know, Jesus talked about the blind and those who come to Christ are chosen by God himself. I mean, he gives that authority to his son. It's a mystery.

It's certainly not based on any merit on my part or anybody else's part. He chooses whom he wishes. That's why we rejoice over his mercy and grace. Not that we're better than other people, not that we're somehow more righteous than other people, because Paul says no one is righteous.

No, not one. We love God because he has invited us into his kingdom. And there are two kingdoms. I think one of the great mistakes that a lot of believers are making is that so many of us are increasingly putting our faith in government or particular leaders to solve the problems that are not just economic and political but are moral and spiritual. And that concerns me a great deal because how we display ourselves to the world reflects on how a lot of people view Jesus of Nazareth. How we present ourselves to the world, I think, is a form of witness. And a lot of unbelievers look at many of us and think, well, they're just Republicans and they're focused on politics.

And they don't see any of the commands that Jesus gave us, the greatest evangelical tools ever presented. Love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you. Feed the hungry. Clothe the naked.

Care for widows and orphans. Not as an end, not as a social gospel, as the left does, but as an example and a witness of how much God loves the human body and the rest of what we do in order that we can speak of someone's greater needs. Now, on the church-state issue, my favorite verse in Scripture that I think defines the believer's role in culture better than any other I've ever heard. When King David was king over Israel, he said, put not your trust in princes and kings or in mortal flesh that does not save. And he goes on to say, everybody's going to die and all those issues are going to pass away.

It's a great temptation. Satan is our great deceiver and denier and destroyer. And if he can get us even a little bit off the focus of Jesus himself and the greater power that he has to change a life, then he succeeds. Cal Thomas with us today on The Christian Worldview. We're talking about his new book titled A Watchman in the Night, what I've seen over 50 years reporting on America. You will enjoy this if you've followed current events over the years. He goes year by year of what took place and his commentary on the various issues. It's very, very interesting. We have a link as to where you can get the book at our website, thechristianworldview.org. All right, we'll take a short break and come back with more. With Cal Thomas, you are listening to The Christian Worldview.

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M.D. Perkins' book, Dangerous Affirmation, The Threat of Gay Christianity, explains, quote, the way gay Christian activists are rethinking theology, biblical interpretation, and the nature and purpose of the church in order to infiltrate conservative evangelicalism. The only antidote is to know and stand firm on the truth of God's Word.

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Be sure to visit our website, thechristianworldview.org, where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print letter, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry. Journalist Cal Thomas is our guest today as we discuss his 50 years reporting on America. You write, Cal, that today truth has become relative and subjective, not objective. Everyone claims to have his or her own truth, and don't dare to use gender-specific pronouns without asking another person which ones they, quote, prefer. You might be condemned by the ever-watchful speech police. As long as your truth makes you feel good, that is all that matters.

If someone else has a contrary truth, that's okay as long as they are happy. This leads to a culture that self-destructs over confusion as to what it is and should be. A people must have a purpose, and a nation must have the goal of being able to define itself and what it stands for. As you say, to the republic for which the flag stands, that has been America's. And I think there was a time, you would say, in your younger years where even the non-believing part of America believed more an objective truth, that certain things were right and certain things were wrong. Even that's changed now in our country. What do you think has led to the discarding, as you talk about in that quote, of objective truth? There are things that are right, and there are things that are wrong. God made you a certain sex at birth, and you can't change that.

How did that change take place, and is there a way to get that back? Well, those are two important questions. I'll take the first part first. We are warned by Moses and by Jesus and by Paul and just by observation on what happens to a nation that forgets God. Abraham Lincoln blamed the Civil War on the fact that we have forgotten God. He said, we have forgotten the hand that made us, and we have vainly imagined in the deceitfulness of our hearts that all of these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the need of redeeming grace, too proud to pray to the God who made us.

And then he added, so it behooves us then to humble ourselves before the offended power and to pray for national clemency and forgiveness. Now, every generation has to renew that. Reagan again said, we're only one generation away from losing it all. Our nation, our culture is an oasis and a vast desert of dictatorships, denial of rights for women, religious intolerance, and so many other things. And if we do not renew these values within and between generations, we're going to lose them. It's as simple and as profound as that, David.

Cal Thomas with us today here on the Christian worldview. You talk about in your book when culture has fewer things as dishonorable and improper, and you think about what took place in this country for many, many years now, many, many Junes now, and so-called Pride Month. We see the mainstreaming of the impossibility, actually, of transitioning your gender. Men dressed as women dancing erotically in front of children, otherwise known as drag queens, but let's call it what it is. Epstein Island, Jeffrey Epstein. You know, a movie is out now.

I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard about it, The Sound of Freedom. It's about the widespread nature of the sexual prostitution or trafficking of children across this country and around the world. In one of your chapters in your book, I think in the one on 1984, you write, the Senate Juvenile Justice Committee investigates the shocking rise in the sexual abuse of children.

That was taking place in 1984, and that was interesting because that's very much of a topic in the forefront today. You hear rumors about just the elites and the sexual abuse of children and so forth. You've been in that elite world in those elite circles and patterns. Is there such a thing that's very predominant with the leftist elites in the world?

It sounds like a QAnon theory. I don't know if that's exactly what it is. I'm not asking you to affirm or deny that, but is there some sort of sexual trafficking going on? Because this movie has been so opposed, and you think, well, why would it be opposed? Who's against protecting children? Well, you go back to the Old Testament, and you'll remember that some of the ancients were literally sacrificing their children on the altars of false gods. So the abuse of children is certainly nothing new, but the internet and ways of getting child pornography and other things has made it an awful lot easier.

The authorities are regularly arresting people who are engaged in this sort of stuff or passing it along to others. Again, this is reflective of a culture that has forgotten God. You know, C.S. Lewis deals with this in mere Christianity.

It's so basic. He says, if you deny there's a God and then you try to appeal to me on the basis of some standard, like, you know, you should or should not do this, you have just rejected the standard that you want me to adhere to. And so I used to do these debates. I would say to my opponent, OK, tell me a form of behavior that is a red line for you that you wouldn't go beyond. You're OK with abortion. You're OK with same sex marriage.

What would you not go beyond? And usually they'd come up with something and I'd say, OK, based on what? Well, some of them would say, well, but just based on, you know, polls and what people think. I said, oh, OK, so polling is your standard. And this was at a time when David Duke, the former Klansman and racist, was considering running for president.

I said, so tell me why slavery is would have been wrong and tell me why civil rights legislation could be reversed if it's just based on public opinion. Well, they never had an answer for it, of course. So once you deny the existence of God and either literally or culturally, then anything becomes possible. And this is the great danger of a nation that turns its back on God. You know, if the foundations be destroyed, wrote the Psalmist, what can the righteous do?

Very well said. Cal Thomas with us today and the Christian worldview radio program. You've heard him on the radio with his Cal Thomas commentary. You've likely read one of his syndicated columns over the last 50 years. He's been in journalism for over 50 years. The book is A Watchman in the Night, where he recounts year by year and goes through some of his columns and gives a very interesting retrospective on the last, I guess it was last 40 or 50 years in the country. What I've seen over 50 years reporting on America.

That's the subtitle. Now I'd like to ask you about where America is going as far as the future. You write, there are several reasons for the decline of nations. You've already touched on this a bit, but I'd like to drill down a little more. A major contributing factor is a rejection of a unifying moral code, unifying. You know, you often hear today people say, well, diversity is our strength as being diverse, even from a worldview standpoint, that somehow strengthens us. That seems to divide us actually. You say, as John Adams, our second president correctly observed, our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Morality and virtue are the foundation of our republic and necessary for a society to be free. So we've discussed that the left is pretty radically Marxist socialist today. They're seeking to overturn our Christian-based heritage.

The right has moved left, albeit more slowly. Many Christians, Cal, have lost trust in our institutions, the political propaganda. It's dutifully reported by the media, the suppression of speech on social media and elsewhere. The educational system, even the healthcare system we saw during COVID was very politicized.

Unequal justice. Look what's going on to former President Trump now compared to what Joe Biden has been involved in and his family has been involved in. Are you the type that sees this as, well, the pendulum will swing back because this is America after all?

Or do you see the U.S. being fundamentally transformed, as former President Obama said, into not so much of a nationalistic sovereign state, but more of a globalistic entity for the future? Well, I'm not a prophet or the son of one, but I go back to the ultimate church-state moment when Jesus is standing before Pontius Pilate and Pilate asks him, well, you're a king then? And he said, yes, it is right, as you say, but my kingdom is not of this world. I think that is one of the most, probably the most profound statement that too many believers have not fully internalized. There's an old hymn, which I love, that says, I'm pressing on the upward way, new heights I'm gaining every day.

It's called solid ground. We used to sing it in our churches. I don't know that they do it so much anymore with all of these worship teams and lots of drums and guitars, but there's a lot of profound truth in that. I'm looking less to the world as I get older and more to the kingdom that never passes away.

And we can only go so far in any nation to correcting the things that are wrong. Again, the fundamental foundation of all of this is sin. Sin is why we die. Sin is why we have all of these problems. You mentioned child pornography, child trafficking.

How can anybody do that? It's when you ignore that God is the creator and to whom you are going to be ultimately responsible. In terms of our country, the declaration of independence was a precursor to our constitution. And you mentioned John Adams and that the constitution was not useful for anybody, but a moral or religious people.

Listen again. And we don't teach these enough in the schools to the opening words of the declaration of independence. All men are created equal, not evolved from slime and are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. And that among these are the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Now listen to this next clause. And to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men. To secure what rights? Why the rights that God has endowed. Why is that necessary? Because as James Madison said, if men were angels, we would not need government.

And men are not angels, of course. And therefore must be controlled either by the power of the Holy Spirit living within them or by the power of government under God. Otherwise it would be fascist or dictatorship. These are the foundational principles of this country. And if we ignore them, we are going to go in the other direction, just as ignoring the speed limit or ignoring certain chemicals being put together in a lab is going to cause COVID-19 or an explosion. If you don't abide by the principles, then you're going to be in deep trouble.

This is nothing new. You don't have to go to a university to understand it. And speaking of university, I go back to an earlier question you asked. How do we turn it around? If we're going to turn it around, we've got to get our kids and grandchildren out of these indoctrination centers known as public schools. Do not send them to these liberal universities. We don't send our troops to Iran or China or Russia to be trained. But too many Christian families willingly send their kids into these indoctrination centers where they're taught gay is good and America's a racist country and all of these other things and expect them to come out with the same values that they went in with. It's not going to happen. So if you're going to turn it around, you've got to start with the education system.

And don't tell me you can't afford it. God didn't run out of money. Don't tell me a kid needs to play football.

Football's not in the Bible. Barbara Bush said, the former first lady, if you have children, they must come first. Our success as a nation, your success as a family, depends less on what happens in the White House and more on what happens in your house.

Amen. I noticed how you emphasized that over and over in the book about educating your children outside the government schools. Cal Thomas with us today on the Christian Royal View. We're discussing his new book, A Watchman in the Night, what I've seen over 50 years reporting on America.

And we have it linked at our website, thechristianworldview.org. I'd like to talk about the issue of Donald Trump for a minute. I think many Christians see his character flaws, as we all have character flaws in differing ways. He's a narcissist.

Everything has to kind of revolve around him. He's a braggart. He's a former adulterer. He's a serial exaggerator. In other words, liar in many ways. He exaggerates things all the time. But many unsaved politicians are that. He's just very kind of out there in the open on these things.

He doesn't hide it so well, I guess you could say. Some Christians who were very principled didn't vote for him in the primary because of those character flaws. But he won the Republican nomination in 2016. He went on to the general election. It was either going to be Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton was going to win the White House.

We all know Hillary Clinton is a radical leftist. And a lot of Christians really didn't know how Trump would govern. They thought he'd be kind of moderate or even kind of a liberal Republican. Well, he won the election. Christians thought, I don't care for Trump personally, but I certainly don't want Hillary Clinton to be president.

Her policies are way, way unbiblical. And not voting or voting third party. Well, that's a fine thing to do, voting third party.

They realize that that really helps a candidate you really don't want to win by voting third party in a binary system like ours. So Trump won, Kal, as we all know. He governed more conservatively than anyone since probably Ronald Reagan. Maybe you'd agree or disagree with that. He didn't get us into wars.

We were energy independent. He was a nationalist, not a globalist. He appointed three Supreme Court justices that really led to the recent overturning of Roe versus Wade.

Yes, he's moderate on the homosexual issue. I think he got the COVID vaccines wrong. There are other things that went wrong. As you look back over that time, what do you think Christians should have done and should do now with the candidate, the person of President Trump in going forward? I know you weren't fully in favor of him. I think you may have voted for him, though, but you didn't like his character.

Describe your perspective on Donald Trump. Well, I'm amazed sometimes that many Christians who questioned Bill Clinton's character because of some of the things he did when he was governor of Arkansas and president with Monica Lewinsky. And they said character was everything when it came to him and so they couldn't vote for him.

Now dismiss and overlook the far greater, in my view, character flaws of Donald Trump. People have written me and said, well, God used his flawed men. Look what he did with King David. And King David was an adulterer. I said, yeah, well, King David repented, didn't he, and wrote one of the great Psalms of on repentance. So I think all all human beings are flawed because we're all sinners.

So I think it has to be a matter of individual conscience. You're right in listing some of the successes of Donald Trump when he was president. Reagan had his problems, too. I'm reading a book about some of the bad decisions that he made. Trump spent more money, got us into more debt. He didn't really finish the border wall.

Many other things. He went along with Dr. Fauci and shut down most of the country, which turned out to be the wrong decision. People have to make up their own minds. I hope it's not another binary choice. Biden versus Trump.

I really do. I frankly don't think that Biden is going to be the candidate. I think he's going to be pulled away in favor of a Gavin Newsom or somebody younger. We can't have a 80 year old and a 70, what, six, seven year old at the top of the ticket. We need younger, more vibrant leadership.

But I think, again, leadership is a reflection of followership. We look at people who are or running for president and say, my goodness, just 40, 50 years ago, a divorced man couldn't be elected president. Now we reelect an adulterer and an elect one with that kind of background who's had, what, three wives now? I interviewed Trump when he was running the first time. I said, I'm going to ask you a question nobody else has asked you. And he said, what's that? And I said, who is Jesus? He said, well, I have a lot of evangelical support. I said, yes, I know that, but that's not the question I asked you. Who do you think Jesus is? And he went on with this rambling answer that most people who are not believers give, well, he's a great teacher and influence and all this business, not the son of God, not that no man comes to the father, but by him, not his sacrificial death on the cross for our sins.

None of that, not even close. So I think each believer has to pray this through and not voting for somebody kind of gives the vote to somebody you're not voting for and wouldn't want president. But again, this is the temporal world. It's passing away. And Isaiah talks about it.

We're like grass, other analogies that were like smoke. Nothing's going to last. So I think we need to focus on that other kingdom that never passes away. Yes, we should vote. Yes, we should pray for those in authority as Paul admonishes us to do, but our faith should not be built on anything less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. I dare not trust the dearest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus' name, on Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground.

And that would include Republican ground, Democrat ground, all other ground is sinking set. Cal Thomas is our guest today. And don't you just love a strong Christian with this kind of conviction, especially in the latter stage of his life.

We have more with Cal Thomas coming up. You are listening to the Christian worldview radio program. I'm David Wheaton. You may recall that last year, the Christian worldview had the opportunity to expand to new markets such as Salem stations in Los Angeles, Phoenix, Denver, Atlanta, and Washington, DC, life-changing radio network in the Northeast and American Christian network. We expanded for one purpose, to reach new listeners with the biblical worldview and the gospel. If you listen to the program on one of these stations, we are asking for your help as we are well behind recouping our cost of airtime through listener support. We are praying for new Christian worldview partners who will help us remain on the air in these markets.

The next few months are critical as we evaluate whether to continue or discontinue on these stations. And we are trusting God, whatever His will. If you'd like to help, please call us toll-free at 1-888-646-2233 and tell Rosie you'd like to become a Christian worldview partner. Or go to thechristianrealview.org and click on Donate. It's critical for Christians to understand the moral depravity that has taken captive our nation. The LGBTQ movement is loud and proud on our main streets, but even more troubling, has pushed into evangelical churches under what's called gay Christianity.

M.D. Perkins' book, Dangerous Affirmation, The Threat of Gay Christianity, explains, quote, the way gay Christian activists are rethinking theology, biblical interpretation, and the nature and purpose of the Church in order to infiltrate conservative evangelicalism. The only antidote is to know and stand firm on the truth of God's Word.

Dangerous Affirmation is 239 pages, soft cover, and retails for $24.99. For a limited time, you can order it for a donation of any amount to the Christian worldview. Just go to thechristianrealview.org or call toll-free, 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Welcome back to The Christian Real View. I'm David Wheaton.

Be sure to visit our website, thechristianrealview.org, where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print letter, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry. Our guest today is syndicated columnist Cal Thomas, and we're talking about some of the major issues he's been reporting on for over 50 years in America. Cal, you write, that the goal of my columns is to remind people that immutable or unchangeable truths exist, and to ask them to consider that recent history in which certain programs and policies such as tax cuts, less government spending, fewer regulations, and moral boundaries contribute to the preservation of our liberties.

Football fields and basketball courts are defined by boundaries. If a nation loses its boundaries, it will eventually cease to be. I'm just going to guess that a majority of Americans actually believe that, that we need boundaries, and they would probably agree with much of what you said today. I don't know what percentage, but you always hear that America is a right center country. There's a lot of people in the heartland who get overlooked who have generally conservative values who would agree with that. If a majority of Americans believe that, what I just read that you wrote, why do those who don't believe that, why do they get elected by this electorate?

Are we seeing the weakness of a democracy when citizens are so corrupted in their worldview, and they're so blind about who they're actually electing? Well, there are several answers to that question, but the most prominent one is that there are only four or five states out of 50 that determine who is going to be the next president of the United States because of the electoral college. All of the other states are pretty much either in Republican or Democrat columns, and so those four or five states determine everything. You can like that or not. Of course, the left wants to get rid of the electoral college and wants to elect presidents on the popular vote, which of course would give New York and California especially New Jersey. Other Democrat states say there would never be another Republican president.

I think that's the major explanation, but the other is, I want to go back to the education again. These have become propaganda centers, and you have a whole generation of young people who think that it's okay to be gay. It's okay to be married to somebody of the same sex. We shouldn't be judgmental. We're all God's children, which is one of the biggest lies ever. We are a nation of biblical illiterates. Even a lot of believers are illiterate about what scripture says, and many others don't want to quote impose their morality on others. Well, how's that imposition of immorality working out for everybody? Somebody's morality has got to be imposed, and if it's not God's, then it's going to be the other guys. It's not complicated.

It's not. Cal, we appreciate your coming on the Christian worldview again today. As you've surveyed these 50 years in journalism, when your syndicated column started at least in 1984, as you look back over that time, obviously you're wiser and older now, and you try to think about what would be your exhortation for Christians listening today as to what should we do with this information that Cal is telling us today?

How do we put this together? What are the next steps for a Christian family listening today? Well, again, it begins with the education of your children, and for those who are in difficult financial straits, and many are, more and more states are offering school choice programs, allowing your tax dollars to go to whatever school—public, private, Christian, whatever—with your child. So look into that, take advantage of it.

There are also scholarships offered as well. The other thing I would say, and I would love to live to see it, I read about the history of revivals in America. There was a book by the late J. Edwin Orr about this, and the biggest one was in 1857, and it came about when two men on Wall Street decided to use their lunch hour once a week to pray for revival. And then they believed that things were getting so bad in America—this was just before the Civil War—that they needed to meet every day to pray, and they were joined by several other people. Then the little room they were meeting in in southern Manhattan got so small, or got so big with so many people wanting to pray, that they moved to the churches at night and invited their wives. And it wasn't long before the revival came.

At the height of it, 10,000 people a week were being converted to Christ in New York City alone. When the revival jumped the Atlantic and got to the UK, coal miners and whales experienced a slowdown. And somebody asked, well, how could there be a slowdown in the midst of a revival? In the midst of a revival. And the answer was, so many miners stopped using bad language that the horses couldn't understand what was being said to them. Crime virtually disappeared in London.

Somebody asked, well, what do the police do since there's no crime? They said, well, we form quartets and go sing at the revival meetings. Now, the way these things come about and have in history is when people humble themselves before God. God appreciates nothing more, as I read scripture, than humility. Ask for him to send a revival, not so that our stock portfolios can go up, not so we can feel better about our country, but that he might be glorified.

This is what you see throughout scripture in both Testaments. Humble yourself unto the mighty hand of God and he will exalt you in due time if you faint not. Those who wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall run and not be weary. They shall walk and not faint.

Last place at the table, mustard seed, widow's mite. When I'm weak, then I'm strong. How many reminders do we need before we fully embrace the notice that if we put God first, wonderful things can happen? I hope he will send a revival. I think it's the only hope for not only America, but for humanity.

Hmm. Cal Thomas, we are so grateful for you and your work, but for you as a person and your character and your outspoken proclamation of who Christ is and his ways as being good for not only the country, but being the only way of eternal life for individuals. Thank you so much for your long career holding up the truths of scripture, and thank you for coming on The Christian Real View today. Thank you, David. It was my pleasure.

Well, I hope you gained from that interview with Cal Thomas. And again, his book is linked at our website, thechristianrealview.org, if you'd like to get a copy. And one thing that came to mind as he was talking about the decline in the morals and values of our country is how the church has compromised in so many ways, and that has led to less of an impact on society. As I mentioned earlier in the program, there's a movie coming out, actually a documentary called The Essential Church, and we just highly encourage you to see this. It's going to be released soon. Go to the website, essentialchurchmovie.com to find a theater where it's showing in your area.

But here's a portion of the trailer for the film. God's truth is enduringly true throughout all the generations. It transcends culture. The church is always going to be an embattled people. If it's swimming with the tide, it's not being the Church of Jesus Christ.

Look to the past, learn from the past, because the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. China has more than 200 confirmed cases of coronavirus, it's called. The entire state of California ordered to stay at home. California has some of the strictest policies leveled against churches.

Gavin Newsom's executive order threatens jail time and a thousand dollar a day fine. Government stopping people from going to church, Dr. Fauci. When I went into the White House, when I sat in on the task force meetings, was a shocking level of gross incompetence.

The mortality rate for the virus was 0.2 percent, 99.8 percent survival, rather than the 3 or 4 percent mortality that the people were saying at the time. The culture and the understanding of the people of Grace Church has always been not only do you obey government, but you honor government. Thousands of people in the streets, but you can't have church. The hypocrisy of letting people riot, it helped us all understand one thing, this is not what they say it is. By meeting, we're testifying the government has no jurisdiction here.

I was arrested and driven to a maximum security prison. When the churches fall silent, the only religion left is the state. We needed to make a biblical statement because we always put ourselves under the authority of the Word of God.

LA County threatened Pastor John MacArthur with jail time and arrest. This wasn't about health and safety, this was all about control and opposition to religious freedom. As the government gets more corrupt and more corrupt, its totalitarian control has to increase.

And as they shut down any attacks against them, this is not about freedom or personal choice. The last thing standing is going to be the church. That was the trailer for the documentary, The Essential Church, and this film has an important and relevant message as we march toward more authoritarianism in this world. Christians and churches must stand firm for what's coming.

So, if you'd like to see this film, go to EssentialChurchMovie.com or just go to our website, TheChristianRuleView.org, where we have a link to how you can see it. And finally today, just a few words about Stuart Epperson, Sr., who went to be with his Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, this past week. He was 86 years old. Stu and his brother-in-law, Ed Atsinger, founded Salem Communications, which is now Salem Media Group, which has become one of the most prominent Christian and conservative multimedia companies in America.

The Christian Rule View, this program, started on a Salem radio affiliate here in Minneapolis in the early 2000s and now airs on many more Salem stations around the country. Stu Epperson and Salem have helped me very much over the years in radio. Stu was very successful in business and in ministry, but much more important than that, he was a committed Christ follower and a family man with a lively and adoring wife named Nancy, always by his side. He has four grown children and many grandchildren. I will always remember Stu Epperson as a kind and relatable man.

He and Nancy visited my parents at their home during a visit to Minnesota many years ago, after which I took them to the Minnesota State Fair where he was curious as a kid with all the sights and sounds of what is called the great Minnesota get-together. The Bible says in 1 Thessalonians 4, but we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, in other words, believers who have died, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. Stu Epperson believed that Jesus died and rose again on his behalf, and now he's in heaven with the Christ he faithfully served.

Pray for comfort for his family and joy about where Stu is now. If you don't have this hope of heaven, I urge you today to obey Christ's command to repent and believe in the gospel, the gospel being the good news that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to earth and lived a perfect life and died on the cross for your sin and rose from the dead, so that you could be forgiven and gifted eternal life in heaven with him. Thank you for joining us today on the Christian Worldview radio program.

Until next time, think biblically, live accordingly, and stand firm. The mission of The Christian Worldview is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. We hope today's broadcast encouraged you toward that end. To hear a replay of today's program, order a transcript, or find out What Must I Do to Be Saved, go to thechristianworldview.org or call toll-free 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Worldview is a listener-supported, non-profit radio ministry furnished by the Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, become a Christian Worldview partner, order resources, subscribe to our free newsletter, or contact us, visit thechristianworldview.org, call 1-888-646-2233, or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Thanks for listening to The Christian Worldview.