Mid-Term Election Special—Will Americans Vote Against Wickedness?

The Midterm Election Special.

Will Americans Vote Against Wickedness? That is the topic we'll discuss today right here on the Christian Worldview Radio Program where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host. The Christian Worldview is a nonprofit, listener-supported radio ministry. Thanks to you, our listeners, for your prayer, encouragement, and support.

You can connect with us by calling our toll-free number, 1-888-646-2233, writing to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331, or visiting our website, thechristianworldview.org. President Biden and the left have held majority power in the White House and Congress for nearly two years. And what a wicked two years it has been for the country. The federal law allowing abortion in all states may have been rightly overturned by the Supreme Court, but those on the God-rejecting left are relentless in their bloodthirst to restore that right to murder the unborn. Transgenderism, the abominable, destructive lie that a person can change their gender, is pushed down our throats at every turn in schools, the military, corporations, government, media, drag queen shows everywhere. Children are having their body parts surgically mutilated or taking powerful hormonal drugs in the futile and harmful attempt to be something they cannot be. This abomination has full throated support of the Biden administration and the left.

Hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of illegal immigrants have been allowed to enter our country across the southern border. Murder, carjackings, and violence are rampant in our major cities. The foolish decision to print trillions of dollars has inflated the cost of everything, thus devaluing the money you currently have. Throttling fossil fuel production due to climate change hysteria is another nation diminishing policy that we've seen in this last two years from the left. This is just a short sample of what the Democrats have inflicted upon this once great and God-revering nation in their attempt to cast off God and remake the world in their Tower of Babel globalist dystopia. Who Americans choose in the midterm election, which concludes because early voting has already started on Tuesday, November 8th, will tell us much about the worldview and spiritual condition of our people.

It's hard to believe that anyone would conclude the country is on the right track, but such is the level of deception when one sees evil as good. So today in the program, Matt Staver, founder and chairman of Liberty Council, an overtly Christian organization that advances religious freedom, the sanctity of human life and the family through strategic litigation, joins us to discuss what is at stake in this election. Also, Andrew DiPartolo, Canadian pastor and director of operations for Liberty Coalition Canada, will update us on what is taking place in Canada and explain why the accusation of Christian nationalism is just a rouse to keep Christians silent and out of political engagement. Let's first get to the interview with Matt Staver of Liberty Council. Matt, thank you for coming back on the Christian Real View today. Let's start with some current news items with regard to the freedom of speech and religion in this country.

That's what Liberty Council specializes in. Elon Musk purchased Twitter. He just took over at Twitter for people who don't know who he is.

Most people do. He's the CEO of Tesla, the electric car company, SpaceX. He's the wealthiest person in the world. He's not a conservative, though. He may be more libertarian.

Maybe you know more about him. Twitter is a private company, a social media company, and they have a history of regulating or canceling conservative viewpoints. They canceled, they removed President Trump from their platform because of, quote, misinformation. This is being hailed as a victory for free speech, Matt. How significant do you think this is going to be for the freedom of speech in this country that Musk just bought Twitter? Well, it's interesting when people consider Elon Musk to be conservative. It shows you how far left has gone left. And I think what he has done in purchasing Twitter, he has said very clearly he wants to do this to continue to expand free speech.

I will take him at his word. And I think there's a lot of excitement with regards to his purchase of Twitter. I think that essentially breaks the very liberal left leaning monopoly that social media platforms have enjoyed until this moment. And I think that's why there's a lot of nervousness by some people that otherwise have enjoyed the censorship of their viewpoints that they don't agree with. And now they realize, you know what, these viewpoints are going to have equal opportunity to speak. So I think it's a very significant issue. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, that's the provision that gives these media platforms, social media companies, search engine companies, absolute immunity from lawsuits when they censor individuals and cause harm, economic and otherwise, to individuals because of their censorship. I think that has to go. And I think we may actually see bipartisan support to do that.

I think that will ultimately result in making these big tech companies more accountable to the people. Matt Staver with us today on The Christian Real View, the founder and chairman of Liberty Council. Matt, another question on what I would consider a free speech issue is the trial of Alex Jones. Some people know him as a very right wing radio host.

He's portrayed by the left as a conspiracy theorist and so forth. Well, just recently, the families of the Sandy Hook Elementary School murder spree that took place in 2012, when 20 first graders were killed by a gunman. Six staff members were also killed. A group of parents brought this lawsuit against Alex Jones. He's been ordered to pay nearly a billion dollars in compensatory damages to these families. Also, they want to fine him punitive damages on top of that $2.75 trillion. Now, he basically said that it was a false flag event.

It didn't really happen. It was used to further gun control means. Now, these are extreme compensatory and punitive fines. But does not the First Amendment liberty apply here even when making false claims, Matt? Well, I certainly don't agree with Alex Jones in terms of how he's handled this situation and certainly even the defense, because in a number of these cases, he essentially gave up the liability defense and it just came down to damages. But besides that, these damages that have been awarded are astronomically offensive to freedom of speech. It's one thing to compensate individuals because of defamation or other kinds of injuries that are caused by certain kinds of messages that may or may not be protected by the First Amendment. But it's another thing to have these astronomically high damages. I think these damages will be overturned on appeal.

They just simply cannot stand. It is a real threat to other people who have free speech rights that will be infringed as a result of this or people that will attempt to infringe on these rights. The saying that you learn in law school is that bad facts make bad law. And so there's a lot of bad facts here in a number of situations from the very beginning in terms of what he said, but also in terms of how he defended or didn't defend his position before the courts. And that can make bad law and that makes bad law for all of us.

So I think the appeal courts in both of these cases will overturn these verdicts, certainly substantially reduce the damages award. Matt Staver with us today. We talked earlier in the year. You were in the process, I'm sure you still are, defending Christians, members of the military against the COVID injection mandate that was put on top of them. I'm sure you've read this article in The Atlantic magazine online where they title it, let's declare a pandemic amnesty.

Let's focus on the future and fix the problems that we still need to solve by Emily Oster. And the summary of the column is, you know, we didn't know all the fallacies and the wrong things we were trying to do with COVID, but let's just forgive each other and move on. The government, the president, the CDC, the NIH, Anthony Fauci, hospitals, military corporations all made false claims about COVID, the injection mandates, all parts of it was just a huge, big lie.

They said it was more fatal than it actually was. The mask, the distancing, you need a passport, the harm from injections, the shutting down of businesses, churches, lives destroyed, education, deaths. In your view now, looking back at this, the way this changed America and the world over the last two or three years, thinking about Alex Jones, now moving to this, well aren't all these entities I just mentioned, aren't they liable for the incredibly greater damage they caused to people's lives?

Absolutely. I mean, you can talk about damage that they caused to people's lives. Nothing like what we see here with this COVID misinformation from the government, from the pharmaceutical companies. You just can't just say, well, let's all forgive each other and move on because there are people who are not here anymore. There are children, there are high school kids that committed suicide because of the lockdowns. They got shut down and many of those in their senior year, some of those with just a couple of months left, their senior year for those that were juniors just got wiped out. They have committed suicide. We've had a suicide epidemic as a result of this isolation. We've seen a national dumbing down of our young people because of these online failed programs that they tried to do, that they weren't prepared to execute.

We've also seen people die by themselves in hospitals, individuals in nursing homes with dementia and other kinds of memory problems, don't understand why their loved ones no longer come and visit them, their attitudes went down. We've also seen with regards to the shot that it's not safe, nor is it effective. In fact, we're seeing lots and lots of damage that is continuing to happen from these COVID shots.

We see a lot of people just dropping dead that have recently had COVID shots, these Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, or even more recent one that's coming on board, Novavax. But ones that we've seen with the boosters, we're seeing lots and lots of injuries from individuals, people that were eliminated because of these shots, people that are permanently disabled because of them. We see people who lost their job because of these mandates. We see people in the military who've been pushed out because of the mandates. We need to have an accountability of all these pharmaceutical companies, the government agencies, Anthony Fauci, and some of these other universities that required their students to get the shots that ultimately resulted in injury to them.

Employers the same way, just like, for example, in our North Shore University healthcare system out of Illinois, that entity now is going to have to pay over $10.3 million in damages because of its refusal to grant religious accommodation requests. That's the kind of accountability. We need accountability, number one. Number two, we need to pass legislation and there's legislation that's already been passed.

We need to do more so that we never have this happen again. We also need to repeal the liability protection that goes back to 1986 of these pharmaceutical companies whenever they label something a vaccine. You know, these mRNA shots, they were not vaccines, they're not vaccines. They had to redo the definition of a vaccine in order to put them under that. Vaccine makers should not have liability protection because it is a gold mine. They can produce these vaccines, rake in the money, but have absolutely zero accountability to the people that they injure, whether it's a COVID vaccine or a shot or something else. That needs to be repealed.

It goes all the way back to 1986. Well, I am so glad you are on top of this, Matt, because you're exactly right. You can't just move on from this. People have been gravely harmed by this. Misinformation is what they were doing and there needs to be accountability.

Otherwise, they'll just do it again. The next opportunity that they get, Matt Staver with us today on the Christian Real View Liberty Council advances religious liberty, sanctity of life, many other things through public policy and litigation. Now, I just want to ask you about a few cases that have been taking place. Some have been decided already. Of course, Roe v. Wade, I think since the last time we talked, was overturned. Every single ad I've seen in Minnesota where we're from, Matt, leading up to this midterm election by every Democrat, I mean, it's almost universal, has mentioned the other side, the Republicans. They're too extreme for Minnesota because they're against abortion. It's all been based on abortion. What is the future of abortion in this country? And really, if you think about it, that one party runs on the idea of vote for us and we'll allow you to kill your unborn child.

What are your thoughts on the future of this? Future of the Democratic Party is doomed because they're wrapping themselves around abortion and also LGBTQ. And that is being rejected by the American people, particularly the rising Hispanic population. If you look at the percentages of Hispanics that are conservative, have family values, they're pro-life, pro-marriage. They love America. They're anti-socialist.

They know people or they've come from people in socialist countries. They also oppose these ridiculous open borders that are so poor as people coming in from Venezuela and Nigeria and all over the world, not just in Mexico or Central America. What's happening is there is a huge tidal wave of Hispanics that are leaving the Democratic Party and going to the Republican Party because the Democratic Party has left their value system. So the more they shout abortion, the more they become irrelevant. It's not resonating with the rest of America.

They'll have their supporters, but they're going to have more detractors than they have supporters. Right now, you know, the elections are so very critical every time we go to the poll because the Democratic Party is going more and more left. It is now adopting socialism. It has opened up our southern borders and allowed cartels and drug dealers and fentanyl, human trafficking, child sex exploits that are taking place on the borders. One of the ranches down there has over 100 bodies that have been found on this ranch from these people that have come across.

Some of them have been hung by these cartels and or coyotes that are bringing them over the border. It's unbelievable what's happening with regards to Iran and we're bordering on potential nuclear war with Russia. All of these things and the economy, sanctity of human life, marriage, all of that is pushing the otherwise Democratic voters away from the party and either becoming independent or Republican, but they are rejecting that party platform. And it's become so extreme.

There's just no middle ground anymore. Matt Staver is our guest today in this pre midterm election special here on The Christian Rule View. Much more coming up after this.

I'm David Wheaton. It's that time of year for our fall clearance sale, where you will receive deep discounts, some more than 50% off on dozens of resources in The Christian Rule View store. There are all kinds of books and DVDs for adults and children, Bibles, gospel tracts, even scripture verse greeting cards. Every item in our store has been carefully selected to be compatible with the mission of The Christian Rule View, to sharpen the biblical world view of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. The fall clearance sale ends November 15th, so this is a great time to select resources for you and your family, your church or small group and for Christmas gifts.

Go to thechristianruleview.org and click on fall clearance sale or call us toll free 1-888-646-2233 for recommendations and to order by phone. Again, that's 1-888-646-2233 or thechristianruleview.org. The momentum from the world is like a tsunami that's flooding our entire country. And the only way to change it is for people to be born again, is for there to be a great awakening in our country again and for people to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. And that will never happen until there is first conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment, for people to repent and to turn from their sins and to turn to God and embrace His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. That was Dr. Stephen Lawson. His book, New Life in Christ, What Really Happens When You're Born Again and Why It Matters, is available for a donation of any amount to The Christian Rule View.

Regular retail is $16.99. Go to thechristianruleview.org or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Welcome back to The Christian Rule View. I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit our website, thechristianruleview.org, where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print letter.

Order resources for adults and children and support the ministry. Joining us today for this midterm election special is Matt Staver, founder and chairman of Liberty Council. Matt, the issue of what happened on January 6, 2021, the capital of the breach and the riot during the post-Trump rally that took place there. And those people were in Washington, D.C. to protest the election, the way the votes were counted and they thought there was lots of fraud and there's lots of evidence of that. Those people who were arrested, many of them are still in prison. They haven't had due process yet. There's been a congressional investigative committee against Trump and those who are at the rally and so forth. It's being leveraged as a threat to democracy. What the incident was over was election integrity.

Talk about that incident that happened at January 6. Your thoughts on it and whether the issues you just mentioned that conservatives want to vote for and get rid of these very extreme, godless policies going on, is their vote actually going to count anymore in this country? Well, that's a good question. I think if you look at the example of Virginia, Virginia became controlled by Democrats in the House and the Senate and also in the governor's mansion. It became very radical.

They pushed everything that they wanted to. And what happened last year is the people of Virginia, notwithstanding the fact that there was no reform in the election laws, people of Virginia said, no, enough is enough. How did they do that even when the election laws had not yet been reformed? They organized and they had many, many volunteers throughout the Commonwealth of Virginia to do poll watching to make sure that there was no fraud going on. That eliminated a large portion of the otherwise fraud that would have occurred.

And there was this landslide historic election in the Commonwealth of Virginia to put the Republicans in the governor's mansion, lieutenant governor, attorney general, all Christians, all pro-life to change the composition of the House and the Senate as well. So I think even in those states where election reform laws have not occurred, we can have that same effect around those states as well by having volunteers. And I know there's a lot of effort to do this, to have people do poll watching. However, also since 2020, many, many states have actually reformed their election laws and they restrained some of the fraud areas. Whenever you do this mail in ballot, those have historically been known to be fraught with fraud. And the way that they were done in 2020 and you see some of these examples on 2000 mules where people were putting in two o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning, multiple repeatedly doing it night after night ballots, some of them having surgical gloves, removing those surgical gloves after they would dump them into the ballot boxes, the receptacles. Obviously, people realize that there was a lot of fraud that was part of the 2020 election. It just makes no sense, for example, that Biden won so many votes when he couldn't get a crowd of more than maybe a dozen or two dozen people to show up at any event, whether it was him or Obama or Kamala Harris.

They just didn't attract people's attention. So they have a legitimate reason to be concerned about the validity of the elections. However, I think we're going to see in the nation this continual reform of our election laws because of the problems that we encountered in 2020. Even in those states where you don't have a receptive legislature to change the laws, volunteers can participate in monitoring the polls.

And I think that will go a long way to stop some of the fraud. Matt Staver with us today here on The Christian Real View. You can find out more about Liberty Council by going to our website, thechristianrealview.org.

We have a link over to their website, which is lc.org. Matt, there's been a complete loss of trust in the institutions in this country, whether the government, even corporations, social media, health industry. There's just a persistent and relentless lie taking place. If you question it, you're vilified as a, quote, threat to democracy. And so I'd like to, as we go into this midterm election, just have you frame what's at stake, maybe mention a couple battles to watch, a couple of the elections to watch, whether the governor races Senate, Congress, whatever, and just encourage Christians as to what we should be thinking and doing heading into this midterm election. Well, let me just give you a couple of examples of what we're working on in Washington, D.C., and have been working on the last two years when the Democrats took control of the House and the Senate. One is on the issue of abortion. With regards to the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey on June 24, there are Democrats that passed in the House the most radical abortion bill ever, allowing abortions for all nine months and even perhaps after, but also requiring funding and all kinds of other abortion murdering policies coming out of this legislation. Passed in the House, it's over on the Senate. Right now, all 50 Democrats are in support of it. Two Republicans are in support of that as well. And that is a very critical, critical vote. They are just a few votes away from passing the most radical abortion bill ever.

Take a look at the Respect for Marriage Act, better named Disrespect for Marriage Act. The same essential lineup is true. There's 54 people now in the Senate passed in the House and all 50 Democrats. There are four Republicans. Two of them are termed out or they're not running again. So they'll be gone.

That leaves only two left once this term ends. But they're that close to passing this particular bill. This is not only same sex marriage, but it opens the door for polygamy.

It opens the door for child bride marriages and so forth and so on. We have so much at stake and it's so close. But for the fact that the Senate would be so close, all of these radical bills have been passed without any resistance, if you will, because they've had six, eight, nine votes as a majority in the House.

They've been able to pass everything they wanted to, just like what we saw in the Commonwealth of Virginia for a couple of years. That's why it's so important. So much is riding on the line. Religious freedom is riding on the line. The sanctity of human life, marriage, polygamy, all of this is riding on the line, plus much, much more.

Whether Iran will become a nuclear power and use it on Israel in the Middle East and later on the United States of America, all of that's up in the air and that's yet to be determined. And not to say our economy, our national security, our military, our borders, all of this, all of these mandates. So much is at stake. So as Christians, we need to really go to the polls in mass and vote our biblical values. You may say, well, there's nobody on the ballot that's perfect. Well, there's not going to ever be a perfect selection opportunity unless Jesus runs for office and he's not running for office.

He's King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That's the only time you're going to have a perfect individual to vote for on the ballot. So pick the one that's going to best align with your biblical values. There's a number of key races that are happening. I think what's going to happen is the U.S. House is going to turn Republican. The U.S. Senate, I think, will likely turn Republican.

It's going to be closer there as well. But there's obviously key races in Arizona. There's key races in Pennsylvania. There's other key races around the country that will determine the future and certainly in Wisconsin.

There's a number of key races that will determine who controls the United States Senate. Well, we will be following up on the weekend after the election some of the things you said. And Matt, we so much appreciate who you are, what you stand for, what Liberty Council does.

You can find out more about Liberty Council by going to their website, lc.org. Thank you for coming on the Christian Wheel of View today. All of God's best and grace to you. Thank you. My pleasure to be with you.

Okay. We will make a very quick transition from Matt Staver, the founder and chairman of Liberty Council here in America, to Andrew D. Bartolo, who is a pastor and also the director of operations of Liberty Coalition Canada. Andrew, it's so good to have you back on the Christian Wheel of View radio program. We last spoke in February of 2022. And so the first question is, there has been a lot that has been going on that we discussed earlier in 2022, whether it was the arrest of James Coates, Tim Stevens in Alberta over defying the COVID lockdowns mandated by the government there, whether it was the Justin Trudeau, the prime minister of Canada, and the so-called vaccine mandates travel restrictions that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau put forward in your country, the vicious crackdown during the trucker protests when the truckers drove into Ottawa, the capital of Canada earlier this year in the winter, and how that was put down. So just catch us up to speed, Andrew, on some of the most important developments, whether they be positive or negative, that have been taking place in Canada with regard to religious liberty and individual liberties since we last spoke earlier this year. Well, first of all, David, thanks so much for having me on the show. You've been a friend to Canadians and a friend to us. And I mentioned this to you as well. A couple that used to live in Canada reached out to me because they wanted to connect me with someone in Kingston who's really struggling. And they listen to your show.

They're in the States now. So I'm grateful for the exposure. It's been mostly good developments. And what's been good about them is not that we've seen prosecutions and people held accountable, but at the very least, a lot of stuff has been exposed. I think that time has brought some of the darkness out into the light and we've been able to really see what's going on.

And that exposure has been good. And the only difference between a conspiracy theorist and someone telling the truth is apparently eight months of time and all things are brought to light. So with regards to the pastors who were arrested, just recently, actually, Tim Stevens had some more charges dropped regarding social distancing mandates. And it was also maybe about a month or so ago that he had additional charges that were dropped based on his charter challenge. So it looks like pastors in Alberta, who were really the only pastors in Canada arrested, have had charges dropped. One of them had a number of – he was actually repaid because of damages done. I think the government had to pay him $16,000. So that's been good that I think we've been seeing that the mandates were draconian, unscientific, and we're seeing a lot of vindication for these men.

So that's a huge win. With regards to the convoy, we're actually in the midst of a public inquiry right now into the invoking of the War Measures Act. And so Trudeau invokes the War Measures Act. They call it the Emergencies Act.

That's a soft way of saying he's decided to go to war with his own country. But the War Measures Act, which is what it was called prior to the 90s, was invoked, which gives the government extraordinary limitless power. But one of the consequences of that is there must be an inquiry into the justification for it and what it did.

So we're in the midst of that inquiry and it has been a bad look for the federal government. So this public inquiry has basically shown that the municipal police, the provincial police, were not asking for the invoking of the War Measures Act. And they've all testified in the inquiry that they were able to handle the protest peacefully and bring about resolution without these extraordinary powers.

They were shocked by it. They've shown categorically that there was no violence done by protesters to people in Ottawa. And the only violence that was done was perpetrated against protesters. We have seen that a lot of the handling from the legacy media and people on social media, that these were flat out lies. There were no racist actions done. It was peaceful. It's been a bad look for the federal government as this has come out into the light.

And we've seen over and over and over and over again. This was a peaceful protest. It was lawful, you know, claims that emergency lanes were blocked, debunked.

Fire trucks had access to receive calls. So this has been good. So we're two weeks into a six-week-long hearing and we're covering it on our show. And every time we cover it, we're just highlighting the fact that we were lied to. We were clearly lied to.

Ottawa Police Services knowingly spread false information about the protest and they were feeding the CBC, the legacy media. So in some ways, we've seen a lot of good turn. The mandates by and large are all gone. So the injection mandates have been dropped for travel.

I think some military is still holding on to jab mandates. But we've basically seen all mandates kind of go away and everything is quote unquote back to normal, even though it's not really. And so in some sense, time has allowed us to expose this and it's been good. I wish I felt as positive about what I think we're going to see in the next two to six months. But overall, time and exposure have highlighted that we were lied to, that there was a lot of tyranny and totalitarian power that came crushing down on Canada. And I think people who were done by wrongly are being vindicated, which is great.

There's no better disinfectant than bringing it out into the light. Absolutely. Pastor Andrew DiBartolo is our guest today on the Christian worldview.

He's the director of Operations of Liberty Coalition Canada and also the teaching elder at Encounter Church in Kingston, Ontario. Now, I just want to follow up with one issue you mentioned there that the so-called vaccine, because it's not a vaccine, it doesn't inoculate anyone from getting or transmitting the virus. We know that clearly now and it harms a lot of people. The COVID jab or COVID injection. Yeah, we call it on our show, we call it the experimental gene therapy injection. And we intentionally call it that because that's what it is. That's exactly what it is.

It's important to be accurate, precise and truthful with it. Otherwise, it just gets blurred into a vaccine, which it's not. The issue of being able to travel in and out of Canada or have holding a job if you haven't got this gene therapy injection, that it's rescinded. Isn't that just a complete admission that it was all a house of cards that if you needed it back then, let's say six, eight months ago, why wouldn't you still need it now if it was really as bad as they were telling us it was? So anyone who doesn't sound mean, but anyone who has just a modicum of intelligence will make that conclusion.

They'll come to that conclusion. The problem is they are still beating this horse to death over and over again. So you are aware as much as I am that President Biden just last week or so came out with his COVID task force behind him and said, listen, if you want to have a fun, safe holiday, it's required for you to get your boost. Our prime minister has said the same availed threat of, we don't want to bring mandates back. Public Health Canada has said, listen, we know that these things work, so be safe, love your neighbor, all that kind of nonsense. They're still playing this. And I think people who's only died of information is legacy media, which in Canada is entirely government funded. They're going to continue to believe this hype and they're going to believe it's still bad. But you're right. In essence, it is a tacit admission that the thing never worked.

Otherwise, why would you have to get boosted every three months in order to be safe? Now, our government has been intentional with their language. They have used the word suspended instead of ended. So with regards to vaccine mandates, they've said they are suspended. With regards to the mask mandates, they've used the word suspended. But they've also said, if we see cases rise again, we can bring them back in. So they've left that door open with their language intentionally. And I think they fully intend on making good on those veiled threats in a very short period of time.

But you're right. Just looking at it, you would say, well, if the thing worked, then why do I have to get five of them? It's a very good question. We'll just take a brief break for some ministry announcements and come back with more with Andrew DiBartolo, including an important question about Christian nationalism. You are listening to the Christian Real View radio program.

I'm David Wheaton. It's that time of year for our fall clearance sale where you will receive deep discounts, some more than 50% off, on dozens of resources in the Christian Real View store. There are all kinds of books and DVDs for adults and children, Bibles, gospel tracts, even scripture verse greeting cards. Every item in our store has been carefully selected to be compatible with the mission of the Christian Real View, to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians, and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. The fall clearance sale ends November 15th, so this is a great time to select resources for you and your family, your church or small group, and for Christmas gifts. Go to theChristianrealview.org and click on fall clearance sale.

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Transcripts and short takes are also available. Our second of two guests today is Pastor Andrew DiBartolo. He's the Director of Operations of Liberty Coalition Canada. Andrew, you wrote to me that you had some municipal elections in Ontario and that you and some of the churches there, I'm assuming Liberty Coalition as well, was able to help 14 Christian candidates win for school board trustees, quote here, city counselors and one mayor. It's a great success, you said, for Christian political engagement.

Now your culture up there is, I think, more willing to be on the socialistic, bigger government side than in America, although we have a big portion of our population who's all for that here. So when Christians in America run for public office, at least in non, let's say, Bible Belt areas, the media frames them, social media frames them as extremists, Christian nationalists and a threat to democracy. Are these overt Christians getting elected to these positions in Canada?

And how are they elected despite these, what you call the legacy media, constantly slandering them and misrepresenting them? I think the benefit of local politics, so this was all municipal level elections. I think the benefit of local politics is it doesn't get the same massive fanfare and coverage from the legacy media. It's really people in the neighborhood, like where I live in Kingston, it's people who live in the same riding as I do.

The city counselors, the school board trustees, they live around the corner for me. So these are people I know, these are people I see, I think it's handled a little bit differently. So in that sense, the potential for misinformation, saying that we are alt-right anti-LGBTQ bigots and far-right Christian nationalists, they don't get as much of that.

Although having said that, the CBC and CTV wrote hit pieces on us, including Liberty Coalition was mentioned as one of these all kind of far-right hateful groups. But local politics, I think it's a little bit different. I think that there's a growing disdain and a growing displeasure with what we're seeing in school boards. I think parents are seeing the radical imposition of a godless gender ideology, drag story hour, the transgender mania. And I think parents are rightly concerned.

And I think that's why we've picked up on that in part that we want to tell parents, we want to actually protect your kids from these dangerous life-altering ideologies. I think that's why we've seen these people win. These are overt Christians in their campaign and their messaging.

I've had conversations with almost all of the 14 who have won. And a number of them have expressed to me legitimate hate mail, threats, slander, that people have come hard for them because they've won. And they understand that they thought the campaign was difficult. Now being a Christian voice on a school board or in a city council will be more difficult. But they are unashamed in terms of what they believe and their messaging. And I think that even the non-believing world that is remotely sane understands we can't teach and tell our kids these things.

It is going to ruin their lives. And that's why I think we saw the success that we did. Christians to Care was started by the Liberty Coalition Canada and our explicit thing was training supporting Christians to run in all levels of politics.

So we had about 60 to 80 candidates total that were connected with us by training. And by the grace of God, 14 of them now have been able to win and hopefully influence from the inside, which would be great. That is great.

And that's a great model. I think that we in America can learn from the training of candidates to be able to go into that cauldron of opposition and be able to campaign and win and represent a biblical worldview for government. Andrew DiBartolo with us today on the Christian worldview. Now I want to get into that, what a biblical worldview for public policy and government looks like, because the charge of Christian nationalism is constantly lobbed like a grenade for anyone who has Christian values and viewpoints who wants to have those represented in public policy or government. Now, Andrew, as you well know, being a pastor, there's a whole degree, whole spectrum maybe is the better word for how Christians see their beliefs being integrated into public policy from those who just want to believe that, hey, we have a Christian worldview. If someone else has a secular worldview, why should their worldview be allowed and ours not? That's what I would see as Christian nationalism. You want Christian worldview into your national public policy. Just have the opportunity to do that as anyone else has their own worldview to do that. But of course there are some professing Christians who have more of a reconstructionist, dominionist ideology, who believe the sole duty of being a believer is to overtake the institutions of society and Christianize them and so forth. Those extremes, let's say, those different points in the spectrum get conflated a lot on probably a purpose by the media.

It's useful for them. Talk about the spectrum of Christian nationalism and where you think the acceptable biblical framework for a Christian worldview being integrated into public policy is. So if I were to paint the far extremes, I would say on the one end is the group of Christians who would say that all of the Old Testament and specifically the case laws with their prescriptions and with their punishments, all of the judicial codes need to be transported and transposed one to one today.

So all of the crimes outlined in the judicial laws, in the case laws, they must be enforced today the same way with the same punishment. And we have to essentially recreate a kind of Israel theocracy. That would be the one extreme. The other extreme would be the person who says the only job of the Christian is to go to church and preach the gospel and that's it. Culture, the world, politics, that's Satan's domain.

Don't worry about any of that. You just go to church, preach the gospel. I think both of those miss really the scriptures and they miss both a right understanding of what it means to be a new covenant people, but it also misses the fact that the cultural mandate given to Adam and Eve in the garden, which I think sounds a lot like the great commission that Jesus gives his disciples, isn't something we can just tuck away as an Old Testament thing. So where we have to find that middle ground, David, that's been the struggle for the last two and a half years and not just from outside the church, inside the church. So when we say something like, hey, we can disobey lawless commands from the government when they step outside of their authority within the church. So within the world of professing Christians, they would say, you're being disobedient, you're being lawless, you're an angry theonomist, you're a reconstructionist. And so we've had to navigate these waters in terms of what is acceptable and what isn't. And so I think that the way that we are to understand the balance between these two is to say every nation will be governed by laws.

That's unavoidable. Every nation is an unavoidable theocracy in that there will be a God, whether it's individualism, whether it's sexual fulfillment, whether it's money that will drive the leaders of a nation. And whatever that God is, that God always brings with him rules and regulations and laws. So in a case of North America, the God of consequence free sexual enjoyment brings with it the law of the blood sacrifice of innocent preborn babies. That is a law that is prescribed in this religious system propagated by the priests and prophets who are the media and the health officials and the Planned Parenthood's.

So it's unavoidable. So the argument what the Christian should say is, if laws are unavoidable, and if there will always be things that govern a nation, whose laws? Which God? And so I think it's appropriate for the Christian to say, wouldn't our nation be better if the laws we put in place take their cue from the scriptures? Not a one to one transfer. We can't just take what happened in Old Testament Israel and pop it in today. It's a totally different setting. There is no ethnic Israel with the king anymore.

There's no temple, no more priestly system. So we can't just take it and copy it. But we can look at the moral law of God, we can look at the decalogue, we can even look at the case laws, the judicial laws, even the cleanliness laws, and say, what does this reveal about the nature and character of God, about his view of sin, justice, oppression, murder, care for the poor? Let's look at the heart of God revealed in his laws. And let's make our laws based on that. So we should legislate against murder, because God says murder is wrong and because human beings are made in his image and his likeness.

That's murder from conception to natural death. What about theft? Well, God puts people where they are with what they have.

You have to work hard to provide for your own family. The fact that stealing is prohibited, this presupposes privacy laws and the right to self governance. So we need to legislate against theft because God says it's wrong, because people have what they have because it's been given to them by God. So the right response for the Christian, I think, is to say, let's take the scriptures, and let's fight for and advocate for laws based on the word of God, because what we see revealed in the nature and character of God, and let's work towards it. So we don't disengage from the culture.

That's been the failure of the last generation. And that's actually an aberrant thought in the history of the church. You and I benefit in North America from Christians who didn't disengage, but rather who said, let's take the scriptures and let's build a righteous country with righteous laws and righteous principles and a system of governance that presupposes the sinfulness of man and total depravity, which is why we need to have, in your case, you need to have the multiple branches of government with checks and balances in place, because you can't give someone absolute power and because democracy, pure democracy will be evil. The men who structured our countries, our forefathers, grounded themselves upon biblical principles. So if they took our worldview, which is Christians disengaged from culture, then we would have a country like the rest of the world that has never experienced the benefit of biblical Christianity, which if you look at a map of the world are the countries where you have the greatest injustices, the greatest poverty, the greatest suffering and the greatest evil that you see perpetrated. So we have to be careful as Christians not to look back and say, oh, well, now it's time for us to totally disengage and just do the gospel thing.

We have the country that we do, which has been a blessing to the world because Christians in the past didn't take that worldview. So we have to avoid these two extremes, which do tremendous damage and I don't think are faithful to the scriptures. And we just have to ask ourselves the question, like I said, a nation will always be governed by laws and a nation will always be ruled by someone. Which God and which laws? Wouldn't it make sense to have the true and living God and his laws direct our nation? Well, of course, because fullness of life and abundance of life is found only in Christ and conformity to his laws. And God, who has made the world to work a certain way, knows what is best for the flourishing and for the fulfillment of humanity. So I'm okay with being called a Christian nationalist if people say, you mean you want to have our laws reflect what the scriptures say?

Yeah, of course I do. And the truth is, if they were to be honest with themselves, they do as well because there is no foundation for murder being evil apart from the scriptures. There's no foundation for privacy laws apart from the scriptures. There's no foundation for the equality of women in terms of worth and treatment before the law other than the scriptures.

And the way I know that is because countries and cultures that do not affirm the authority and that haven't built their systems upon the scriptures are the one where women are treated as second class citizens. Corruption is the name of the game. Great evil is perpetrated. People are murdered senselessly. And we have seen the opposite of growth and flourishing.

And so I hope that that's a little bit of a trail I've walked through. But to help people understand being a Christian nationalist is good if I want my laws to reflect the scriptures and be based on the Word of God because that will be the best for us. But what I don't want to do is I don't want to rebuild a New Testament theocracy that's just a photocopy of what we saw in Old Testament Israel. I think that misses what God's doing in the New Covenant. Andrew, I think that was very well answered. And I think a lot of people, Americans listening today hear it's coming from a Canadian right before our midterm election should keep in mind exactly what you said about there are going to be laws, there is going to be someone who's going to rule.

The question is which laws and who. Thank you so much for coming on the Christian worldview. It is always great to be with you, David.

Thanks for having me. We are out of time today, but I just want to summarize all that has been said with one passage of scripture in Proverbs chapter 14, verse 34. Righteousness exalts the nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. We as Christians, let's vote against wickedness and for righteousness in this midterm election. Thanks for joining us today on the Christian worldview. There'll be all kinds of information immediately following today's program on how you can connect with this nonprofit radio ministry. We may live in a challenging world, but let's remember Jesus Christ and His Word are the same yesterday and today and forever.

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