Share This Episode
The Christian Worldview David Wheaton Logo

Canada Criminalizes God’s Truth on Sex and Gender

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton
The Truth Network Radio
January 14, 2022 7:00 pm

Canada Criminalizes God’s Truth on Sex and Gender

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton

On-Demand Podcasts NEW!

This broadcaster has 328 podcast archives available on-demand.

Broadcaster's Links

Keep up-to-date with this broadcaster on social media and their website.


January 14, 2022 7:00 pm

GUEST: ANDREW DeBARTOLO, Pastor and Project Manager for Liberty Coalition Canada

When Daniel and his friends faced King Nebuchadnezzar’s ultimatum that they fall down and worship the king’s golden idol or be thrown into a blazing furnace, this was their reply:

“O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to give you an answer concerning this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king. But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up” (Daniel 3:16-18 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] ).

With the recent passage of Bill C-4 in Canada banning “conversion therapy”—defined as “a practice, treatment or service designed to change a person’s sexual orientation to heterosexual”—pastors and Christians now face a similar choice to obey government or God, who is mighty to save all who live in sexual rebellion against His design.

This weekend on The Christian Worldview, Canadian pastor Andrew DeBartolo joins us to describe the situation and to call American pastors to stand in solidarity by preaching on Biblical sexual morality on Sunday, January 16.

YOU MIGHT ALSO LIKE
Matt Slick Live!
Matt Slick
The Truth Pulpit
Don Green
Insight for Living
Chuck Swindoll
Cross Reference Radio
Pastor Rick Gaston
Focus on the Family
Jim Daly

Canada criminalizes God's truth and sex and gender, that is a topic we discussed today.

Right here on the Christian worldview radio program mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ and the host website is the Christian worldview or thank you for joining us today and also thank you to our national sponsor Samaritan ministries international provide a biblical solution to healthcare is a community of Christians pays one another's medical bills can find out more at the Christian worldview.orc when Daniel and his friends faced King Nebuchadnezzar's ultimatum that they fall down and worship the King's golden idol or be thrown into a blazing furnace. This was the reply. Oh Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to give you an answer concerning this matter, if it be so our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire, and he will deliver us out of your hand. Oh King but even if he does not let it be known to you oh king that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up with the recent passage of Bill C4 in Canada banning so-called conversion therapy defined as quote a practice treatment or service designed to change a person's sexual orientation to heterosexual on quote pastors and Christians there now face a similar choice to obey government or God who is mighty to save all who live in sexual rebellion against his design this weekend on the Christian worldview.

Canadian pastor Andrew DeBartolo joins us to describe the situation and to call American pastors to stand in solidarity by preaching a biblical sexual morality. On Sunday, January 16.

Let's get straight to the interview with pastor Andrew DeBartolo, Andrew, thank you for coming on the program. Introduce yourself to the audience how did you come to saving faith, what you do now. Tell us about your involvement with religious freedom in Canada, with the liberty coalition.

Thanks David thanks for having me on.

And thanks for shining a light on what's going on here in Canada it is much appreciated by the brothers north of the border a little bit about me I didn't grow up in a Christian home, I got connected to a youth group and to my church through an outreach ball hockey league that they ran and as a result of getting connected. I learned about what it means to worship and follow Christ. When I was about 16, Lord save me gave me new heart made me love him fast-forward a little bit.

My wife and I got married. We ended up moving from Toronto to Kingston and we started a church here so I pastor a church in Kingston. It's been about six years now and there were a number of Canadian pastors and Canadian churches over the last two years. It remained open and restriction free and as I began to get connected with these men will began to see similarities in our understanding of the sovereignty of Christ. Our understanding of the civil government overreach and we connected together in January 2021 the liberty coalition was formed I wasn't a part of the work back then. But they formed as being not just an alternative to the only kind of meeting we had here but working with churches working with business owners working with retired police officers with doctors and medical professionals to fight for liberty here in Canada from a distinctly Christian perspective in a distinctly biblical worldview and so just a few months ago I came on with the liberty coalition as the project manager for the church must gather initiatives which specifically been working with churches across the country who'd been open and restriction free finding churches who may be of meeting quietly and wanted to kind of bring them into this network together. I and encouraging them, and more recently with the passing of Bill C4. The initiative that we have begun in order to shine a light on what's going on, but also proclaim the total sovereignty of Christ over his church. God's design for marriage and sexuality and so my involvement with the liberty coalition has been recent, but my connection with men across the country who'd been saying the same sorts of things about the church about the state really that's been going on since the coalition began about two years ago. I want to read Andrew a letter that you personally sent to Pastor John MacArthur here in America trying to urge him to make Known What Is Taken Pl. in Canada over the last month and will get into maybe a little later wrote that that the church lockdown issue that was very severe has been very severe in Canada over covert you write to John McCarthy as a pastor, John Bill C4 pastor the house and the Senate without opposition. This is in Canada. Not a single dissenting vote was cast by any member of the conservative party received Royal assent on December 8 Debbie 2021, which means it will come in to law after January 8, 2022.

So it's in law now the bill will amend the criminal code in Canada to ban conversion therapy, it will criminalize, among other things, quote causing another person to undergo conversion therapy promoting or advertising conversion therapy unquote. That's from the bill. In the preamble of the bill it says that the belief that quote heterosexuality cysts, gender, gender identity that's identifying with the gender you were born with, and gender expression that conforms to the sex assigned to a person at birth are to be preferred over other sexual orientations, gender identities and gender expressions is a myth.

According to Canadian law as of January 8, 2022. The belief in God's design for marriage and sexuality will now be seen as a myth last paragraph the bill defines conversion therapy as quote a practice treatment or service designed to change a person's sexual orientation to heterosexual the change a person's gender identity to assist gender to change a person's gender expression so that it conforms to the sex assigned to the person at birth to repress or reduce non-heterosexual attraction or sexual behavior to repress a person's nonsystem gender, gender identity or repress or reduce a person's gender expression that does not conform to the sex assigned to the person at birth you write. This definition is intentionally broad and it can clearly be used against any preacher or elder who either speaks against homosexuality transgender is him or who counsels a person to obey Christ and abandon their homosexual transgender actions and lifestyle. This means, as of January 8, 2022.

It will be against the law to preach, teach or counsel regarding God's design for marriage and sexuality menu close your letter to John MacArthur by saying this quote everyone who knowingly causes another person to undergo conversion therapy are quoting from the bill is guilty of an indictable offense and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years on January 16, 20, 22 and this is why we brought you on the program today. Faithful men across this country and many in the United States as well will be preaching on God's design for marriage in a biblical ethic of sexuality, we will be doing so illegally declaring to the state that there is one God and one Lord over his church and that Christ alone gets to both define marriage and dictate what is required in the pulpit. We are honored that our American brothers will be joining us in this yours in Christ, Andrew DeBartolo from encounter church Andrew that was in excellent letter you sent a lot there but maybe tell us a bit more about this law and how you would respond to the person who says well. This law is only meant to stop that kind of abusive conversion therapy that has nothing to do with preaching or counseling someone for the first thing I would say would be if that's the case then he should explicitly mentioned it in the bill.

So the bill doesn't say anything about, for example, electroshock therapy or denial therapy. Like starving people are putting them in very extreme physical circumstances. The bill doesn't mention that if it did mention that and it was limited to only that will then I have no problem with it because I liable those practices as well.

And no one should be in favor of them, but the bill is vague and I believe it's intentionally vague and it's really them even as you read it, that's a non-definition, just as practice treatment or service. What was I mean, was that look like and so I think that it being vague serves the purpose that it acts as a big bucket to be able to catch whatever it wants to. So I think people who would say none of this is just that abusive kind of conversion therapy.

First of all there's no evidence of that being practiced anywhere in Canada and not for a long time like this isn't something that supported by churches by really any group. And there is no history of it again within the last while of any that that happening so people who would say that we say this is about preaching or counseling. I don't know if they've read the bill carefully enough or I think you're being disingenuous, or perhaps their giving our civil government much more credit and wider margin than they should. I mean you read from the actual bill those those those portions that I quoted for past MacArthur and yet any practice or treatment or service where you basically say to someone, don't pursue this kind of lifestyle.

So if you're a man and you feel that you're a woman, but your man physically to say that person your man.

Act like a man pursue that. That's normal for you to be a man if you're physically a man that would be conversion therapy because what is that that is a practice.

It is a treatment. It's a service it's telling the person pursue this as opposed to this, so obviously is going to work its way into churches and in private settings because part of the not only the gospel proclamation is to call people to repent from their sin and to Christ to leave the spiritual death and darkness and come into the light and being in the light is he's in the light which means pursuing obedience and holiness. It means explicitly saying you have to stop what you're doing you cannot live in the same. You cannot embrace the sand and so pastors don't simply say preachers don't simply say here is God's sexual ethic is what marriage is. We call people rightfully so, as the Scriptures command us to turn from sins and obedience. There's a debate right now among evangelicals in Canada saying don't don't concede the illegality of the bill know it may not be use this way. I think if we look at the last two years and if we understand the encroachment of the civil government upon the local church. I think it's clear we see where this is going, and anyone who says otherwise I try to be kind, I don't think they're paying attention. I don't think your eyes are fully open as to what's happening nave at best.

Andrew Danner, cholo joins us today here on the Christian worldview radio program is a teaching elder at encounter church in Kingston, Ontario, in Canada. He's also working for the Liberty coalition Canada on some religious and individual rights issues.

We have him links@ourwebsitethechristianworldview.org Andrew, why should this issue be a line in the sand issue with with Christians and especially pastors and churches and what kind of response or what kind of coverage is the Canadian media giving this. What kind of response. Are you hearing from fellow churches in Canada. What's the sense of the people there. The truth is that this line should of been drawn a while ago when the state thought that they could tell churches how to worship Christ right so this is just this is just another thing in that similar vein, where the state thought that they could be God, and they could tell churches when you can meet, but you can't sing and you have to cover your faces have to be 30% capacity. You can't touch anyone don't celebrate the Lord's supper. You know what has to be outside. That's when the line should of been drawn so many didn't draw the line at that time and so now is an opportunity for them to actually draw the line and now is an opportunity for them to realize they missed that boat and they allowed the civil government to encroach upon the autonomy and the authority of the local church.

So now it's a matter of drawing the line because it's obviously not going to stop here the liberal government has already promised that is going to remove the charitable status of what they call antiabortion organizations when their reelection platform for 2021. This was a promise that they made protecting women's reproductive rights. Write a euphemism for murdering babies. They said that any organization.

For example, pregnancy care centers that promote antiabortion and the don't really allow women to all all the opportunities that they would have for their cortical healthcare will have their charitable status removed the criminal code in Canada has already been amended with new hate speech laws protecting homosexuals, and transgender people as a protected class and criminalizing anyone who would speak against it in various settings and so is been such an overt attack on the Scriptures that pastors and elders and and in this is where the line is pastors and elders have to decide whether Christ will reign in their churches or hander churches over to Caesar and become state churches, because if you let the civil government dictate not only how and when you can worship but now what you are not allowed to say under threat of punishment and imprisonment. You're basically a state church and so the line is God alone defines marriage and sexuality.

He has designed creation of norms and if churches are not going to proclaim the truth of God's Word and God's design than respectfully, they might as well close their doors or give the keys to the civil government because that's that's what they've done so. This doesn't end here and it's not going to end here, and so the line has to be drawn because this is going to be more more encroachment as every day and month and year passes so we need to stop giving the line and stand firm now pushed back against this darkness.

That is so well said the Christian worldview. Wheaton returns in just a moment the original stalwart souls who created the colony in the howling New England winter just so they can worship according to the dictates of conscience, far more influence on world history than they could have ever imagined. The seeds of liberty, both religious liberty and civil liberty. The idea of self-government and rule from within. All these are within that body of pilgrims. The proceeding is from the pilgrims, a 57 minute documentary of the inspiring story and faith of these Christians who greatly impacted our nation. You can order the DVD for a donation of any amount to the Christian worldview go to the Christian worldview.org or call 1888 646-2233 right to Box 401, Excelsior, MN 55331 that's 1888 646-2233 or the Christian worldview.org David Wheaton here volunteer host of the Christian worldview radio program. Listeners are often surprised to learn that we as a ministry pay for air time on the radio station website or app on which you hear the program. The primary way this expense is recouped is through listeners like you donating to the ministry or becoming a monthly partner. Our aim is to have each broadcast outlet fully supported by the listeners to that outlet. If you are a regular listener. We would be grateful if you made a donation or became a monthly partner of any amount to do so. Go to the Christian worldview.org and click on donate.

You can also call 1888 646-2233.

That's 1888 646-2233 or the Christian worldview.org and be sure to specify which station website or app you listen is that helps us decide whether to continue on a given outlet. Thank you for your support. Welcome back to the Christian worldview.

Be sure to visit our website and the Christian God or we can subscribe to a free weekly email an annual print newsletter resources for adults and children and support the ministry.

Now back to today's program with host David Wheaton, Andrew Bartolo joins us today here in the Christian worldview Canadian pastor and follow-up with the other part B of the question is what is been the responses you've reached out to other churches in Canada and what is been that the media coverage about this. The media coverage first and the answer is zero or negative on our media system here in Canada and in the big media outlets the legacy media that traditional media is government-funded and government-subsidized. And so when you're receiving your findings from the same civil government that is not only putting these laws into place, but is also heavy-handed with its restrictions and its mandates, you're going to get unanimous messaging coming out and so there's been no favorable media coverage so you would expect the same kind of language that we are transferable bit that we are homophobic we are archaic that we actually support the kind of conversion therapy that I mentioned before that no one would actually support the work for electroshock therapy and were for denial therapy and denial measures, and so that's the media coverage we get, but it's also kinda silent. No one is going to blow the whistle on this.

No one can draw attention to this so that that's what media is like here in Canada we really have relied primarily on faithful brothers in churches and and and media alternative media and even some main media sources in the states to shine a light on it. Really the only organization that is loudly blowing the whistle on what's happening here would be the liberty coalition and sold not just with the initiative that were doing on the 16th but through podcasts and interviews and articles being released in statements. We are trying to showcase what's going on here because there's there's really no coverage from other churches, organizations. Unfortunately, as we've seen the last two years that by and large, all denominations large kind Christian fellowships of parachurch organizations have all totally been compliant with mandates and restrictions. So that's forcing their people to be vaccinated before they can come to work. The Salvation Army here in Canada wouldn't allow people to man the candles like ring the bells collecting money unless they were fully vaccinated, and so there's been total buy-in from big Eva here and in the broader evangelical mainline churches in Canada. So naturally there also going to look upon what were doing with disfavor and they're going to say things like we have a persecution complex or as you mentioned, it's really not can it come against counseling and preaching and so it will block the benefit of the doubt for the civil government and really no grace shown to faithful brothers who stood up at great cost to them already in some have already spent some time in jail and have already had to pay huge fines and so we are definitely working against the media big evangelical industrial complex here in Canada we are featuring this program today to not only informative was going on refer you to pray for these brothers in Canada who are intent on preaching the full counsel of the word of God without government restriction in going to have the boldness to do that this this weekend here in in Canada to talk about that in the sockets now want to give one more typical criticism you're going to receive Andrew is that while quote Christians make such a big deal out of homosexuality and transgender is him but they overlook the adultery, the pornography, the premarital sex that takes place in their churches.

How do you respond to that and why is there a difference between these issues of homosexuality and transgender is him and other issues that the church can't out tends to unfortunately link out to a certain degree I would agree with you that to our Shane. Many churches, many pastors for a number of reasons have neglected certain sins haven't been as diligent in calling people to repent of what Jerry Bridges might call respectable sins already said, just give a wink at it. The reality is that all sexual sin is evil and Paul clear in first Corinthians 6 at the something unique about sexual sin in the way that it's a sin against your own body.

Now in whether sins like self-harm and addiction to drugs or alcohol is also sin against her body, but there's something unique about sexual sin in general as being against your own body. The effect that it has on a person physically, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, and so as such, the church must call out and call all people to repent of sexual sins.

And I would I would agree with some of the criticism that we have been negligent of this in the past. Nevertheless, even with sexual sins. There are some of them that accord with nature and those that do not.

So I don't know if your listeners would be familiar with Robert Gagnon on he's at Houston Baptist theological seminary.

He's probably the most prolific writer, theologian, researcher as it has to do with issues of homosexuality and sexuality in general, and as he clearly points out, a man who lusts after woman who is not his wife or even if you fornicate with her at its core, the desire for man to be with the woman and express that desire in sexual union is normative and right now it's distorted because it's not his wife but at its core, a man who desires to be with the woman and to express that desire in sexual union is according to God's design. The difference when we deal with the sins of transgender is him and homosexuality is that bees defy creation of norms, so they're not just a distorted sexual view, they are an affront to God's design right they go against nature. That's one of the differences. The other difference is, as Paul clearly points out in Romans one that a culture that rejects God that worships a creation rather than the creator there handed over to a great wickedness. But Paul teaches that perverting God sexual norms right men exchanging natural relations with women instead having with men and women exchanging the natural relations with men, and then having with other women. Paul calls that out.

Not as just merely one of many sins, but he specific in Romans one and saying that this is the result of God handing the person over right and so it is so against nature. It is so much an attack on the gospel that this is what happens when God takes his hands off the reins and lets people and cultures freefall. So while all sexual sin is evil in the church has been negligent in many ways of calling people to repent of the sexual sins.

The unavoidable reality that we get from the Scriptures all the way back from the garden and from Paul's unpacking in Romans one is that these particular scenes which are perversion of the creation of Norwich are an attack on God's design for human sexuality are distinct and they are the evidence that God is handed a culture over not just one sin, among other sins. And so I know it's a very controversial issue and a very controversial and I know that many professing Christians would disagree with this but I think you have to squared away with the clear testimony of the Scriptures with cultural norms and even with the way Paul describes this handing over and its consequences and enteritis think you gave one of the most biblical answers of ever heard of that question. So II think you're right squarely over Scripture right founded on Scripture to give the answer you just gave Andrew DeBartolo with us today here on the Christian worldview radio program, a pastor in Canada talking about this new law that just went into effect in Canada. C4 that is banning so-called conversion therapy which is made intentionally broad to criminalize Christians jumping off that answer you just gave about the difference of homosexuality and transgender is him versus other sexual sins. Why do you think these issues of homosexuality and transgender is him the movement behind the advocates for it.

Why have they been so effective at silencing, marginalizing and even criminalizing Christians a man you don't see people who are in favor of adultery or pornography or extramarital heterosexual sex in forming organizations to silence Christians from speaking out against their particular sins. Why the difference with homosexuality and transgender is him part of the difference has to do with how answer the last question that when you reach this point in a culture where the culture is so been handed over to all sorts of perversions that it now exchanges God's natural design for human sexuality and replaces it with all sorts of distortions we see a culture that's in freefall, we see a culture that is been so abandoned to its own sin that is thrown off any of the good boundaries, or any of the good structure that holds it together. Schaefer talk about this a lot in his book the great evangelical disaster that when a culture shakes itself free of what it perceives to be the shackles of biblical Christianity or Christian practices or principles it freefall into chaos. And when it does so.

A totalitarianism is going to creep up because a culture that sin in freefall that surrounded by chaos and calamity need something to hold it together right it's it's it's scary in this unknown chaotic sense and so it totalitarianism. Schaefer said will rise up and the people embrace it and embrace it because it's comfortable because it's safe. So have a culture handed over this in opposition to God's creation alarms, you have a totalitarian event that is now creeping up.

It provides a measure of stability and control and safety for people. I would say yes. Perhaps the push hasn't been as strong with regards to certain sexual sins. But I think that play has been in effect for many years and so the reality is it's been generations of the erosion of God's law and erosion of the biblical sexual ethic, and citing one of the reasons why it's effective now and obviously it would've been effective 50 years ago is because our cultures meet sexual immorality and deviance. Normative sort having to work against an entire social climate use us as bigots and cavemen and and having these very archaic antiquated beliefs and practices so the social pressure to conform to be well-liked as we saw many pastors talk about in last two years to maintain their witness right to love their neighbor and to hold onto all their social capital that cripples many people. The second reason why is these issues have clearly been politicized that this is clearly a political issue. No one wants to be canceled or hated by people no one wants to be called the names which the reality is, will cost you your job if there is an accusation you said something or done something in certain workplaces. You get the call from HR you're done. So cancel culture is very real people's lives are being ruined by this and so it's difficult to speak up against the political correctness monster I think is 1/3 reason and this is a deeply spiritual reason that I think is really what's driving underneath it. The gods of self and sexual expression have enslaved many people we know what happens know how people respond when their gods are attacked when you speak against their gods. When you tell them that your God is a false God, your God, has no power all my God is greater than your God. We know how people respond, they respond with anger and violence they become incredibly defensive and so that's that's what were seeing here were seeing people's gods that they hold so tightly. Now their gods wanted to flex on other gods and what they're saying is know our God of self sexual expression of worshiping the creation rather than the creator. This God now reigns supreme so your God must bow to our God and were saying what the church is set for 2000. There is no there is no Lord Christ. There is no God, there is no king but Christ, and so that's what's driving this conflict the Christian worldview. David Wheaton returns in just a moment. Recent guest Caleb Eisner defines economics as moral philosophy applied to marketplace relationships, so it makes sense that as our nation's judgment of what is right and wrong has moved away from biblical morality are economic policies have gone the same wrong direction.

So what is the Christian worldview on economics. Caleb Eisner has written an insightful 56 page softcover booklet titled biblical foundations for economics that shows how economic principles and policies need to be based on the Bible to achieve the greatest human flourishing for limited time we are offering biblical foundations for economics for donation of any amount to the Christian worldview to order go to the Christian worldview.org or call 1888 646-2233 or right to Box 401, Excelsior, MN 55331 again the website is the Christian worldview.org when it comes to your healthcare provider. What are some words you would use to describe your experience with the comfort these confidence will have Samaritan ministries and those are just some of the words are members use frequently like Samaritan member, former long-term board member ML staff member Jamie Pyles uses to describe his 24 year relationship with Samaritan ministries target words into the comfort of the relief you have.

As you come to terms that Samaritan ministries is real is viable is working. Is there we just thank God that has allowed us to have that kind of peace to be in a situation where I can focus on things that are far more important to be part of a growing caring community of Christians who faithfully share each other's medical leave each month, all without the use of insurance. Find out more@samaritanministries.org/PCW that's Samaritan ministry.org/TC W thanks for joining us on the Christian worldview. Just a reminder that today's program and pass programs are archived at our website. Christian worldview.org Georgics are also available and be sure to share with others. Now back to today's program with host David Wheaton, Andrew DeBartolo joins us today here in the Christian worldview talking about this new law in Canada that basically is he's been mentioning criminalizes what God's word says about sex and gender.

Now from what you been going through. In Canada the last couple years with Cove with the lockdowns, the church shutdowns the arrests of pastors and so forth. How do you think the government is going to respond after Sunday when pastors like you and some others in Canada preach on a biblical view of sexual morality. It's difficult to know for sure. One thing that I would say is I don't believe that there's a sort of manpower, whether it's in bureaucratic bodies or even various municipal or provincial police forces to now scour the Internet and find every church. So for example I don't think every church in Kingston is going to have their websites visited by some sort of online bill C4 antidiscrimination task force to make sure what they're preaching on is is faithful.

I think that that is, manpower that but we don't have. So I think this is what it will look like bigger churches with platforms, especially ones that have already faced fines and bad media coverage, so churches that have been defined that have been outspoken that have a platform that have a voice there automatically going to be on the radar because they are on the radar and so I think that these bigger churches might have certain sermons looked at were scrutinized and might be that I think however what's what's going to happen or that the big play in this I think was also the big play with Cove issues is you're not going to have municipal and federal authorities going to every single church, making sure that they're doing what they're doing. I think that the civil government relies on its very compliance. Populace to wrap people out. I think that's really what working to see I think you will have people who will report on churches who will say this church that this weather it's angry people were going to go to websites or will show up to churches on Sunday morning. Anticipating these things will be said and then will begin to report them. You may also have people in them were quite convinced of this, people who will make it their job to try to infiltrate churches pretend to be Friendly's, build relationships, gain trust and then approached the pastor about certain desires.

They have certain feelings they have the don't comport with nature and then use that as a pretext to trap pastors that we can deftly see that happening.

So I think as with covert measures and the mandates and the restrictions I think the civil government is relying on people, they will trusted people will report on rule breakers.

The people will report on those who aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing, they will use a again a very compliant and in many ways a very blindly trusting population to do the dirty work for them because they just don't have the resources to scour churches and websites or the time in a smaller church of 30 people either faithful pastor who's gonna preach on biblical sexuality that nothing it will go after him is a small fish. They want to make an example of the bigger churches in the more well-known ones, and so they'll be the big targets first and then there can rely on people doing doing their dirty work for them as they have for the last two years. That really sounds like a communistic horrible situation when you have citizens turning in one another to the government. But what you're describing sounds very plausible to me. And so we will look to see what the responses again Andrew DeBartolo joins us today in the Christian review just a couple more questions for you.

It's back up one step before this bill. You mentioned earlier just about all the covert lockdowns of the churches of pastor James Coates went to prison over it. Give the keys over in Edmonton, Alberta think it's Tim Stevens, a Baptist pastor there, was arrested as well and I read about this the arrest of Tim Stevens on one of the newspapers in Canada and I read down the comments in the literally I think every single comment was against him on almost every single one just what, what's the matter with these people there.

The other, they're okay with spreading sickness that I was just almost universally negative. How do you explain what was with this covert, 19 virus going around and and just the that the discrepancies of the over 99% people who get it, survive it, the vaccine, the so-called vaccine is largely ineffective is lots of adverse reactions to it.

The church is called sit together in person, you, these churches are experiencing our meeting. Despite the government lockdowns on this or not, people are dropping dead every week after the services from Cove it to me. It's just it's so ludicrous is on the face of it yet. The vast majority the population complies and criticizes these churches and cans of these the small percentage churches that that are going to obey God over men. How you explain that dynamic that is a great question and it is one that we had been wrestling with my meeting personally, so men across the country personally had been wrestling with how it is that this kind of responses come from many, including many professing Christians and including many Christian organizations and so just give one example of one that I heard that was astounding to me. The Christian missionary alliance church here in Canada.

One of the largest churches in the denomination is in Alberta is in the province of Alberta and one of the pastors was interviewed as a non-Christian media organization to some regular newspaper was interviewed and in response to what happened with James Coates and his ilk right so other men who took a similar approach this man said that the actions of James Coates were not only dishonoring to Christ, but will bring reproach upon the gospel.

So this man whose a professing brother, said of another brother to a pagan that he was bringing reproach upon the gospel so your question is a really good one because that seems to be ridiculous. These are supposed to be allies and their function is enemies that is a couple reasons why we see this and and and why this is come about specifically in the church are specifically among professing believers, pastors, elders, churches, I think that we has valued so much the acceptance of the culture of ingratiating ourselves to the culture of being thought of this winsome and likable of making sure that we don't do anything to tar our witness that we win them over with our love right that terrible euphemism preach Christ and use words if necessary, as if there's any other way to preach Christ and by using words and we valued this so much that anything to maintain our witness anything to give good PR anything to be well thought of by the culture because that's how we win them is what drives people to do with a due and so if you have men and pastors were standing up and who were saying.

My job is not to win over the culture.

My job is to be faithful to Christ. It's a costly obedience. The gospel is not a popular message. Christ's own commitment to the gospel and obedience to the father is what led to his crucifixion as being a political insurrectionist and setting himself up as another Caesar. These are the charges brought against him. This is what were doing our job is not to win over the culture. No one gets saved because were limited really really good Christian life and everyone. Things were loving and kind and winsome siding within the church that part of the response is we've grown up in a culture for generations now we had to be a certain way and went over the culture and so anything any kind of masculinity. For example, that is bold or courageous or speaks out is toxic and not very winsome so that's that's within the church outside of the church. I think the effectiveness of the messaging rate. It has been unanimous in concert messaging from government officials, health bureaucrats legacy media. It's all all but is one message so that that message, in part, has been to quote unquote other or ostracize the unvaccinated were the anti-Zach Sirs or the anti-masters of the anti-signs people and so by creating this group of people who are now responsible for where we are. These people become the enemies, and what were being told, and I mean this is the case with you as well.

Just recently I read that Joe Biden I think was a state of the union said that everyone who is unvaccinated.

Enjoy a holiday with death and suffering and disease actually said that to your country. What you're doing is you're saying that there are a group of people who are responsible for our calamity by me that they didn't bring the virus, but they are the ones who are responsible for the continuum of this problem because it will get the shot because it would put on a mask because it will follow the rules and so if you can convince a sizable portion of the population that this group of people are the reasons why you can go to work why you can't see your grandmother or why you can't enjoy your vacation or why your husband has turned to the bottle and depression and why he's not taking it out on your kids if it's the fault of this group of people. The anti-science anti-mask anti-VAX people then you will become angry there. The object of your anxiety or fear your worry and so here in a turn on them because they are the ones that are ultimately making your life miserable and so if they would just comply everything to go back to normal. And if they're not going to combine the money to force them to comply me. This is a is deeply spiritual. It's deeply psychological. What is been done to people in terms of how they view this quote unquote other group who is now responsible for their calamity and the fact that this is an over yet.

Bobby said think is a bleeding of those two together. I think some of that also leads into the church and among professing Christians, but I but I see distinctly in the church. Here are some reasons and then in the broader culture. This is why people are so angry and with with such vitriol. They can speak against men who simply want to call their church to gather worship and who won't bow to obscene anti-scientific mandates and restrictions in this is why facts don't matter because the right.

The delusion is so deep you can bring all the facts of the stats about adverse reactions and how ineffective the vaccine.

The so-called vaccine is and you know the ineffectiveness of of of cloth mask to transmit the virus and so forth. And it doesn't matter because the delusion is so you might as will be speaking a different language. What would you like Christians listening in America today and really around the world.

There's a podcasting audience to this program outside this country. What would you like to say to them and encourage them to do at this particular time as a think about pastors and Christians in Canada and the and and the crosshairs that are on them right now. The first thing I would say is right now our initiative right with the liberty coalition wants to do in encouraging pastors across this country to faithfully preach on God's design for marriage and a biblical sexual ethic comes at a cost to us. It doesn't right now and I want to emphasize that right now, large cost to our brothers to the south.

But that's not going to be the case forever.

I think that once you know your version if you will or or or similar piece of legislation known as the equality act once that works its way through and becomes law in your country, your to be in the same position as we are and so the analogy that I've given before is were both heading towards the same class right were going much faster than you are right were, and in fact we might already be off the cliff so that's that's our situation here. You guys are still driving towards the cliff.

You just going at a slower pace and so if people in the United States think this will never come to us. I'm sure those of the same people who thought two years ago we would never close our church because of the flu and so time has a way write the slow encroaching upon liberties and the slow encroachment upon rights have been slow for a reason. And so part of why we want to call our American brothers to be faithful and to join us in this is because this is coming for you guys as well. She can happen little bit slower and will differ from state to state right you that you've a different structure of governance with the state had a relatively higher autonomy than provinces do here but it's coming. There still being ready standing for making those decisions now drawing those lines. Now prepares you.

And if your attitude is, I'll wait until it comes upon me before I determine what I'm going to do your almost certainly going to fail your almost certainly going to comply. So we want to encourage our brothers, be strong now. Be faithful. Now look at our example understand that this is coming for you. Make those decisions.

Honor Christ obey Christ paid the great cost that comes from obedience.

Debbie, the first thing a warning and a calling to be aware of the board just ahead of you weird your head toward St. Cliff the second thing would be everything in your power, and this is why we reached out to Pastor John is why reached out to Tomas goal. This is why we reach out to a number of different churches and organizations in the United States who have platforms to shine a light on it and so share articles about what's going on, go to liberty coalition Canada.com share our initiative share what's happening with not just this bill but with what our government is doing shine a light with no favorable coverage here and the truth is, Canadians consume so much American media is so American media outlets American news organizations American radio stations that one who highlights this and shares it and blasted out. Canadians consume that and so it's of benefit to us is well for you to highlight it to shine a light on it to rally the troops to embolden people to obey.

I would be it would be another thing. And then third, I would say I be praying for us.

Their number men in this country who already served time in prison because of their faithfulness to Christ and because of their faithfulness to being under shepherds to the Lord Jesus Christ. Tremendous fines await people if we don't win any court battles, which it doesn't look like were going to and so there's there's a big cost for us and so we want to be faithful. One will be Christ. We want to be bold in our calling. So be praying for us. Be praying for many churches that are taking the stand that will declare that God alone gets to define what marriage and sexuality are that's what I would tell our our listeners to be ready to anticipate it's coming your way to shine a light, so that people can see what's going on here so that we can be encouraged and more more awake into the reality of it and to be praying for us because this is I'm sure for many a stressful week anticipating and not knowing who's gonna show up on Sunday afternoon, for example, with a new person comes into your church on Sunday morning. I don't think there's going to be a pastor who's committed themselves to this initiative who won't at least have the thought is this person here specifically to hear what I'm going to say to report me or for another reason.

And so were to be wrestling with that this week shall be praying for us. Andrew never met you in person but I highly respect you as a as a brother in Christ, for your courage for the way you can articulate these really stressful and really I think predictable issues when one both of our societies have been given over to her rejection of God and his word, and so we thank you for bringing this to light was going on account that we most certainly will pray for you. We support you 100% and that we just wish all of God's best in grace and courage and boldness to you this weekend and in the coming months in Canada as you stand strong in him. Thank you David where we are very good personally grateful for the highlighting of this hood. The support of the prayers. And I know I speak on behalf of other men in this country and I speak on behalf of liberty coalition as well that we are we are tremendously thankful every opportunity we have two discussing shine a light on this and to be covered by the prayers of faithful brothers in the United States. Again, thank you for having me on. We are out of time for today but let's remember. The world may be predictably changing but Jesus Christ and his word are the same yesterday and today and forever. Pray for these pastors in Canada and until next time think biblically live accordingly and stand firm. The mission of the Christian worldview is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ. We hope today's broadcast encouraged for that event you replay today's program or to sign up for free weekly email to find out what must I do to be saved@ourwebsitethechristian.org or call us toll-free at 1-888-646-2233 Christian worldview as a listener supported ministry and furnished by the overcoming foundation, a nonprofit organization can find out more water resources make a donation become a monthly partner and contact us by visiting the Christian worldview.org: toll-free 188-864-6233 writing to Boxborough one Excelsior, MN 55331 Box 41, Excelsior, MN 551 thanks for listening to the Christian worldview. Until next time think biblically and live accordingly


Get The Truth Mobile App and Listen to your Favorite Station Anytime