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How Unbiblical Morality Results in Unbiblical Economics

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton
The Truth Network Radio
November 12, 2021 7:00 pm

How Unbiblical Morality Results in Unbiblical Economics

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton

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November 12, 2021 7:00 pm

GUEST: CAL BEISNER, author, Biblical Foundations for Economics

Morality is the judgment between what is right and what is wrong and economics is how money, goods, and services are used and exchanged.

While morality and economics seem unrelated, they are actually linked. When moral judgments are made about any given issue, economic decisions follow to support those moral judgments.

For example, abortion is viewed by our government as morally good and so therefore economic policy is made to fund the killing of the pre-born and post-born.

It’s no coincidence that as American’s judgment of what is right and wrong has moved away from biblical morality, our economic policies have gone the same direction. Government rather than the individual is now viewed as the best caretaker for the poor, needy, and unemployed. Government is seen as the solution to inequality, education, health care, and the environment.

Socialism—strong governmental ordering of society—is ascending while capitalism—individual liberties applied to markets—is slandered as “selfish”, “greedy”, and “immoral”.

Cal Beisner, author of Biblical Foundations for Economics, joins us on The Christian Worldview to discuss how economic principles and policies need to be based on the Bible to achieve the greatest human flourishing.

We will also hear the remaining portion of the interview with Mike Gendron about why the Pope and President Biden share some a “strong rapport” (hint: that has to do with their economic views as well).

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Help fund morality results in un-biblical economics that is a topic we discussed today. Right here on the Christian worldview radio program with the mission is to sharpen biblical worldview. Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David, the host website is the Christian worldview.special thanks to your listeners for your listening and supporting the Christian worldview and also our national sponsor provided biblical solution healthcare. I just want to add one thing about the sponsorship of Samaritan ministries for this program that I am not personally paid to promote Samaritan ministries. In fact, we are full paying members with Samaritan ministries.

We simply like what they offer and we contacted them because we thought our listeners would benefit from the excellent healthcare sharing program that they provide. You can find out or just by giving them a call at 1-877-691-1625. Now speaking of healthcare situations tragic story came out this week about Franklin Graham, the head of Samaritan's purse.

By the way, no relation, no correlation between Samaritan's purse was Franklin Graham runs in Samaritan ministries international, which is a healthcare sharing organization, Franklin Graham had said on Facebook back on October 21. He wrote this quote I'm fully vaccinated: with a booster and I'm glad I took it. However, there are others who feel just as strongly against taking the vaccine, even though I don't agree. I respect their right to their opinion and then he said this recently in an interview he did hollow people to know: 19 can kill you but we have a vaccine other than possibly save your life and if you wait, it could be too late. Will is a follow-up to that justice past week, on November 9 Franklin Graham posted on Facebook. He said this quote yesterday.

I underwent a specialized heart surgery at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota.

I had developed constrictive pericarditis which is inflammation and hardening of the sac around the heart that compresses the heart and prevents her from working properly. The surgery involved removing the pericardium and we thank God that it went well. My doctor said I should expect a full recovery and be able to return to my normal ministry schedule. I look forward to many opportunities around the world in 2022. To preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and invite people to put their faith and trust in him. I'm also looking forward to being able to ride my motorcycle. By the time warm weather hits.

I appreciate everyone's prayers and we would certainly encourage you to pray for Franklin Graham sounded a very serious surgery sound like he won't be back on his feet fully until warm weather hits him assuming that he means by next spring or summer sometime. We have no information that this surgery that he had was a result of his coded injections or booster shots, but you hear of these kinds of heart problems with people who are getting these covert injections.

Matter fact I read on the patriot Post this week.

An article by Lee Miller according to affairs, which is the adverse event reaction site from the CDC covert, 19 vaccinations and quoting here account for 9400 over that amount. Adverse event deaths in 2021 so far. That is a whopping 96% of the total for all vaccines making them orders of magnitude more dangerous than other well tested vaccines. As I said previously, these reported adverse events and deaths are probably far lower than the real number because medical industry is so reticent, so resistant to having negative information come out about taking these soldiers listen to what Dr. Peter McCullough recently said when he was interviewed on the Alex Jones radio program about the danger to the heart from these so-called covert vaccines in the medical establishment's complicity in covering up the danger in a paper by Avolio and colleagues. It's clear despite protein does damage the heart through Perry sites. I think it's unequivocal US FDA all the other regulatory bodies have warnings Pfizer Madrona because myocarditis I think everybody should understand this colitis is heart injury. I've seen it. I reported to the CDC. It's easy officers call me in verify it. This syndrome is not mild because it requires hospitalization. We have a situation where bioethics is off the rails.

Parental rights are now taken away, and children are going to be faced with a potentially fatal decision. We've never seen this ever in human history. And so the deception and delusion continues on covert, 19 our whole goal has been to try to give you what we find to be the most accurate information so you can make informed decisions about your health care.

Now we need to transition to the topic of the day here last week we talked about the Reformation and how impactful that was, of course, on the church with a new branch of Christianity splitting off from Roman Catholicism and also beyond that the impact that the Reformation had on Western civilization in Europe and then eventually in America. Here's what Dr. Steven Lawson said last week about how significant the Reformation was to basically every aspect of life and for our conversation today to economics as well. And so the Reformation was a huge deal that a small deal. It was a massive deal that began in the church and is swept through the culture and swept through society and it radically altered education in schools. The work ethic. The economy, politics, caring for people, hospitals on and on and on and on it. It was a top to bottom across the board affect before the Reformation there was a very low work ethic. There were trade guilds and trade unions and people did as little as they possibly could just to get by. There is there is no incentive to work hard and then Calvin begins to preach, you must do your work is under the Lord that you must give your best effort and the care now as people put their shoulder the plow and began to to work hard because I'm doing this for the glory of God, and they believe that on the last day there would be an inspection of their work by God and that mediocrity would be a cause for shame. On the last day that they they must give themselves to study and to hard labor and work and it and it just literally turned the Western world upside down men now began to invest resources into businesses and projects because they they they believe that by faith. If we invest our money and I saw the banking parables in the in the Gospels that it would help others and yield a return for their family and their began to be this boom again. That was Dr. Steven Lawson talking about the importance and significance of the Reformation. You could really say was going on in America today is a rejection of the Reformation because the Reformation was a return to biblical accuracy. America has been the greatest creator of wealth in human history of any nation ever why because the biblical view of work and incentive the free-market principles of economics.

That's what created the engine for the incredible wealth that's been generated within this country now morality is the judgment between what is right and what is wrong in economics is how money and goods and services are used and exchanged now well morality and economics may not seem related. They are actually linked because when moral judgments are made about any given issue. Economic decisions follow to support those moral judgments.

So for example abortion is viewed by our government is morally good and so therefore economic policy is made to fund the killing of the pre-born in the post born that. So economics and morality are linked, so it's no coincidence that as America's judgment of what is right and wrong has moved away from biblical morality are economic policies have gone the same direction.

Government rather than the individual is now viewed as the best caretaker for the poor, the needy and the unemployed government is seen as a solution to inequality education healthcare in the environment is of socialism, which is basically strong governmental ordering of society is ascending in this country while capitalism, which is based on individual liberties applied to the markets is slandered is quote selfish, greedy and immoral. Hell, bison or author of biblical foundations for economics joins us today in the Christian worldview to discuss how economic principles and policies need to be based in the Bible to achieve the greatest human flourishing Christian worldview. David Wheaton returns in just a moment. Psalm 46 starts God is our refuge and strength a very present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth should change the earth is changing strong delusion has bewitched the leaders and peoples of this world.

So what's a Christian to do focus on the most important thing God and his perfect and powerful attributes are new featured resources. Dr. Steven Lawson's book show me your glory.

Understanding the majestic splendor of God, for limited time we are offering. Show me your glory for a donation of any amount to the Christian worldview. This hardcover book is 278 pages with the retail price of $19 to order go to the Christian or call 1888 646-2233 or write to Box 401, Excelsior, MN 55331 that's in the Christian

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Now back to today's program with host David Wheaton Cal. Thank you for coming back on the Christian worldview today you been on the program many times over the years want to start out with a quote directly from the booklet the classic definition of economics rights Thomas soul who's a very notable economists I might add conservative in an introductory textbook is that it is the study of the allocation of scarce resources which have alternative uses, unquote. Then you say economics does study the allocation of scarce resources that have alternative uses, but it does much more.

Also, indeed precisely that definition of economics leads many people to the mistaken conclusion that her only option in this world of scarcity limit limited resources is to divide up high of unchanging size among the various people who want pieces of it and that for this reason, one person's gain must always mean another's loss.

That's from your booklet biblical foundations for economic or that's a very common. I think misunderstanding as you would say of what economics it is only a limited number of resources. When one gains another loses. It's a zero-sum game you say later that you define economics as moral philosophy applied to man's marketplace relationships, so define economics further notes. A fundamental question. Let's define it further.

So it's very understandable.

Were talking about the day and then answer the questions you open the booklet with what have justice, love self-control and prudence to do with economics books. First of all, for having me back on the program to real pleasure. Who would I be to to disagree with Thomas soul. One of the greatest economists of the 20th and early 21st such router is one of my heroes and the definition that he gave there is absolutely standard. Almost all economic student are almost all economists would embrace the definition of my objection to it is not so much for what it does say. As for what it raises in lots of people's minds because of exactly what you quoted there tends to make people think okay economics is all about trying to determine who wins and who loses.

That's really not the point. Economics is as I went on to say that her and I'm really borrowing here from Adam Smith, the founder of modern as soon but over the last 300 years or so.

Modern economics Smith was a professor of moral philosophy of the University of Glasgow in Scotland in the 1750s 60s 70s and when you read his work on economics. Specifically those whose very famous book, an inquiry into the nature and causes of the wealth of Nations. You cannot escape. But you can easily ignore the moral foundation of what he was doing there in the book and the reason is the wealth of Nations is, in essence, an 1100 page footnote 21 In his earlier book, the theory of moral sentiments and in that earlier book. She had said that if you live people free to pursue their own interests within the limits of God's moral law. They will actually serve each other better than if you try to direct their activities and coordinate all threesomes from the central committee no.

At the time this was absolutely revolutionary thought because the reigning economic theory of the time is what we call mercantilism which the purpose of an economy. The purpose of the nations working on producing and transporting materials in slow was not to serve all people, but rather to serve the national treasury. Or, as was the case in most places, at the time the royal treasury. Since people who are free have a tendency to do things that serve themselves first and then think about serving others. If you want to fatten up the royal treasury. You have to coordinate people to do what they would not first choose to do most of us are not really excited about the idea of living our lives for the purpose of enriching the king right so when Smith wrote this idea to leave people free to serve their own interests within the bounds of God's moral law that will serve each other better than to try to coordinate them as she came under heavy fire from economists of his day to set this is impossible your it's crazy you. Are you forgetting for one thing, this seemed like a very Christian objection your forgetting the sinfulness of man. People will act selfishly, Smith carefully distinguished between selfishness and self interest. Selfishness serves one's own desires without regard for other people and even without regard for what those desires are virtuous or no or evil self-interest. Who says one of the things that need to happen for me to be able to flourish and thrive for the purpose of walking the life that God wants me to walk of living the way God wants me to live. If you read the theory of moral sentiments which is still one of the best books on ethics you find Smith exalts generosity and charity, grace, compassion, true love and self-interest seeks to figure out okay what do I need in order to enhance my ability to serve others. So when he was attacked for launching this idea is she essentially sought to provide empirical proof for the idea in what became the wealth of Nations and that was where she is set out actually looking at real economies at the real business firms at individual entrepreneurs and so on and asking the question, which sort of a neocon economic arrangement makes them more productive for the service of others wanted which you attempt to centrally plan their activities or one in which there. Their choices are free and the wealth of Nations, provided what was for the time overwhelming empirical evidence. The answer was the latter.

When you leave people free to serve their own self-interest within the limits of God's moral law which means no false advertising is not permitted in no false claims about what your product can do. That's not permitted. Having a product that is inherently dangerous or something like that without clearly notifying potential users of the risks when people are free to serve their own self interests. They soon realize you know sometimes I want things that I can't make and that means the defendant to obtain them.

I need to obtain them from other people that are basically as Thomas soul points out, there basically two methods of exchange. One is the peaceful method and the other is the violent method for the violent method happens when I either pump you over the head and run off with your stuff, or at least I threatened to call your head and run off with your stuff. That's the violent meeting means exchange. The other is the peaceful means of exchange and there in order for me to persuade you to do something to me that I want. I have to offer you something that you want more than you want what you already have. But I want which means that the trade will occur only if you perceive that after the trade. You will be better off than before the trade and I perceive that after the trade. I will be better off than before the trade, which means that in free trading every trade is a positive sum game in which both parties benefit. Neither party loses, and that's the opposite of what so many people now think is the case because they tend to think of economics, just as the study of how to allocate scarce resources in the world of unlimited wants and it's very very interesting and thought-provoking.

That's why we wanted to have you on today. We really like this book or booklet.

It's a 56 page booklet entitled biblical foundations for economics written by our guest Kalb Eisner who is the founder and spokes man for the Cornwall Alliance for the stewardship of creation.

You can get your copy for a donation of any amount to the Christian worldview. Just go to our website the or call us toll-free 1888 646-2233. You can also write to us. You interestingly in the booklet show how economics is a value-based or has a morality to it is not is not valueless. Science all this give you one example that you write about you. You say does God's law say things relevant to economics. Certainly you say every commandment of the Decalogue, the 10 Commandments is relevant to economics out when I read that thinking every commandment is relevant economics, but you go through and you show on this and give one example number five a of the 10 Commandments. Honor your father and mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you new right at the heart of every economy is of every society is the family in which there are new mutual obligations of parents and children sound economic policy therefore will avoid creating incentives that undermine the family by interfering with the responsibility either of parents to care for their dependent children and grandchildren or of children to care for their dependent parents and grandparents. Clearly, this principle calls for serious questioning of our present unemployment, welfare, Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid programs and cautions against a government or national healthcare program talk more Cal about how economics it's a completely biblical moral based science. Let me give you an example, should we have a rapidly or slowly expanding money supply. Should we have a money supply that is stable. Should we have a shrinking money supply are those questions only empirical issues or is there a moral component to the when you expand money supply, not by providing new substance that has market value in and of itself because people already wanted but by downgrading the purity of say gold or silver and silver used as coinage or by introducing paper money or by making electronic data in bank accounts substitute for money when you do that as you expand the money supply. You diminish the value of all the money already in circulation. What that basically means is you're taking value from some people who already have it and giving it to people who don't already have it, but the ones who are getting are the first ones who get to use this newly minted or newly decreed money that is the government and the bankers since everybody else who loses out. So we use the term inflation for this.

A lot of people think of inflation as rising prices, but in fact the proper definition of inflation is an expansion of the money supply and it results in rising prices because you have more dollars chasing the same number of goods or even fewer goods. So when the Bible condemns. For instance, having a false balance false scales that applies to the question of monetary policy is a moral issue.

There, if we believe that the same God designed the physical universe and human bodies and how we relate to children all that who also gave a moral law, then we ought to expect compliance with his moral law is going to work better in this role that is the Prudential question what works. The pragmatic question right to line up with the Laurel question.

The Scripture teaches. Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the way of sinners versus and see the scornful.

But his delight is in the law of the Lord and in his law he meditates day and night. She'll be like a tree planted by the water that yields its fruit in due season and its leaf does not wither. This is clear teaching that ordinarily, there are exceptions. Ordinarily, obedience to God's law brings physical good results material blessing. And so if we start by looking at the moral law of God, and then let that guide us into our understanding of economic policy choices. We have an advantage over those who are only looking at consequential questions and that's why think this is an important book in an important topic for people understand because they'll understand what is going on in our society today economically financial and otherwise is just foolish and not according to God's law and there is a better way and so understanding the framework which you so clearly lay out in this 56 page book entitled biblical foundations for economics think it will help people think more clearly about economics Mississippi great for a college student in a high school student dirtiest any adult, the moral compass of a country is is right hugely important, but so is the how it has its own its own economy, whether it survives and so that's why this this book and think is so important is it simply is not up 400 page book is a 56 page book on biblical foundations for economics written by our guest today Kalb Eisner and you can receive one for your donation of any amount to the Christian really does get in contact with us. The usual ways. Go to website the real or call us to write to us now I want to get off some of the did the things you just said just for a moment ask you a question. Personally, you spent some of your early childhood in Calcutta India and then I noticed that you had your advance. I think your PhD work was done at University of St. Andrews in Scotland, which is the land of Adam Smith and even mentioning the for listeners who don't know who Adam Smith is he is incredibly important to me that I think is called the correct me if I'm wrong. Kalb at the father of capitalism and he was incredibly important figure in developing our being sort of the thinker behind free-market economics, so you started in the land were Adam Smith, lived and wrote how is it sporadic but I did not study night I've read vastly of Smith's writings informally on my own but I did not do formal academic studies along Smith blaze.

The thinking of America's founders through John Witherspoon, who had been a covenantor and was called to be the president of the College of New Jersey, where he taught 19 members of the tunnel.

Congress and the constitutional convention, including James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution that he himself was a member of both of those of the condo Congress and Constitution convention and signed both so very important influence on American thought there from the Scottish Covenanters were going to have to have you back on to talk about the Scottish Covenanters and the use of limited government and so forth that. That's another issue that is being overturned here in America today going to limited government, constitutional Republic moving toward sort of a socialistic big government ideology will have you on another time for that. But going back to the question of living in Calcutta India in the midst of that society and studying in the land of Adam Smith in Scotland.

How did these experiences shape your views not only of economics as we been discussing, but also of poverty and also climate the organization which you lead Cornwall line to the stewardship of creation is primarily focused really as I look back at my time in Calcutta and I was a very little child of the time, but because my mother was temporarily paralyzed by the six-month period by some disease. I was farmed out to family everyday and also my nurse or I as it's called in and to study my I would take me by the hand every morning and walk me to this family's home and along the way we passed two things that became permanent fixtures in my picture member is one was beautiful, beautiful, huge tree with a fine hanging out of it, filled with lovely red flowers. As I grew older and began to study what Scripture has to say about God's creation and how we should evaluate and so on.

I realize that that was something that God had planted in my mind. Very early on to help me to see the beauty of his creation and to appreciate that and to want to to enhance and protect it after we passed the tree which was in the courtyard of the apartment complex in which we lived. We went out on the street and for the next several blocks to the family's home every morning I stepped over the dead bodies of people who died overnight, of starvation and disease in those pictures to our indelible in my mind and when I later became a Christian and really began to study what the Bible has to say about our responsibility as Christians toward the pool.

Think about this Jesus when he announces the opening of his ministry. He quotes from Isaiah, saying the spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor right the first thing he says is that as the purpose of his ministry know that good news is much more than just economic good news. It's also the spiritual good news of the gospel that we sinners like you and me can be reconciled to the holy God by God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ. So the Christ alone. But this was also to be good news to the poor. In terms of their day-to-day lives. What I realized was that from those early childhood experiences as I began studying in depth in economics, and particularly in environmental economics, I realized that God had sort of what given me a mental resource of the mental starting point from which to combine the care about the beauty of God's creation and at the same time all over the effects of extreme poverty and a realization that as we seek to take good care of God's created order natural world. We need to be sure that we are also doing what lifts whole societies out of poverty and prosperity and to approach it from, say, a perspective that's sympathetic to environmentalist thought. What I have to point out to people whose look you want to clean, healthful, beautiful, safe environment will just let that's a costly good. It costs something and wealthier people can afford more than poor people So you want to clean, healthful, beautiful, safe environment you should want people not to be poor good to be wealthy, then they can afford to have that kind of environment right so as to incite riots. The Christian worldview returns in just a moment.

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Now back to today's program with host David Wheaton.

We are going to play more of that interview with Cal bystander next week on the program again the name of the booklet is biblical foundations for economics.

You can get a copy for a donation of any amount to the Christian worldview. Just go to the website the Christian real or call us toll-free at 1888 646-2233. This is a 56 page softcover book or booklet that will give you a great biblical foundation for economics as the title implies, and also help you to discern where things are going economically today and why. Now we need to quickly get to the rest of the interview that we started last week with Mike gender and from proclaiming the gospel ministries he's going to talk about why the Pope and Pres. Biden get along so well enhances because they have a similar worldview, specifically with regard to socialistic economics make this from life site news, October 29. Pope Francis is a quote the title of the story is Pope Francis and Joe Biden meet in the Vatican to discuss climate and covert shots, but not abortion.

The subtitle is there was laughter and clear rapport between Pres. Biden and Pope Francis according to the White House considering Pres. Biden's promotion of abortion is a clear abortion advocate in the Roman Catholic Church church's historic antiabortion position. Why is there clear rapport within the rapport means that there's a close or harmonious relationship between Pres. Biden and Bo and Pope Francis to the point that Joe Biden receive communion in the Pope diocese in Rome. Yeah it's hypocritical for Pope to take a stand against abortion and yet to allow the President of the United States to claims to be a devout Catholic radio is pro-abortion to receive communion. Ultimately this is the assorted bishops in Francis is a Bishop of Rome so he has jurisdiction over your right and what is in the Vatican that both of these are hypocritical liars. And I don't say that to be nasty just looking at their history. They say one thing and do another. And so, more than ever we have to have discernment we have to call people to account you know David, the nature of deceptions of people never another decedent's will or confronted with the truth and so here we have two hypocrites that are going against what they supposedly should stand for Joe Biden being"" devout Catholic radio. Not adhering to the laws of the Catholic Church and Pope Francis, allowing him to continue to live in send and receive holy Communion. It's just highest form of hypocrisy and more than ever I think we need to currently statement of account which is what your program is all around. We need to make our listeners your listeners know what's going on bro's and the Vatican and those in America and it's important if you read the Bible, specifically the New Testament you see that the apostles and Christ himself were constantly encouraging right behavior and right doctrine is correct truthful things and also balancing it with a pointing out of that which is false in and in cautions against and being discerning against that which is false because ultimately false doctrine is not just false. In its third is wrong, and so forth. It is pointed out, though, in this represents God my gender in with us today.

The website is proclaiming the Ryals also had a linked directly from our in today's preview for the program. It said in this article from life site news a Holy See press office statement confirm that the man, this is Biden in the Pope focused their discussion on the quote. The joint commitment to the protection and care of the planets that healthcare situation in the fight against the covert, 19 pandemic as well is the theme of refugees and assistance to migrants.

Biden sub Scully met with Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal petro peril in who he is said to have expressed thanks for the Vatican's quote active leadership in fighting the climate crisis as in his meeting with Francis, a White House statement noted that Biden peril" discussed efforts to rally global support for vaccinating the developing world, against covert, 19" so just read a couple paragraphs here.

It's about vaccinating the whole world.

It's about the joint commitment to climate change. It's it's about protection of migrants, immigrants, and by that they would mean, what's going on the southern border just letting people in in in a very unorganized way. Just let them across the border.

How does someone like the Pope or maybe even Joe Biden is a professing devout Catholic, as he is called how do they arrive at these theologically liberal viewpoints with the conclusions they make about these these issues of our day.

In still call themselves Christians who abide by the Bible. I don't think either one of them emphasizes their theological position is more the merrier political or government positions on. I say that because of their politics and labs program over history, but we have to recognize and I think it you cover this on some of your previous radio shows that only look at the crisis going on in the world today and the government control over the people we know that this is a precursor to one day when a local ruler well-controlled every persons buying and selling through the market-based and we see a lot of this coded 19 shots the mandates going towards it's taking away people's freedom is forcing them to take a shot if they want to continue to survive in the economy buying and selling, and flying on airplanes and in going into different countries and so what were saying here I think is really the emergence of a global government, you know, in the past which have different crisis but the regional this crisis is global and so we see the governments of the world coming together and having these mandates to control the mass of people and so I believe were blessed generation.

I think were living in the time or we may say, the Lord Jesus come for his church and I've often said, I don't see how things can get a worse yet, they do, but I've never seen prophecy, on the verge of being fulfilled. Like I stated today my gender in with us today in the Christian reviews want to read a couple paragraphs here from this article from life site news. I think it's really indicative of just what you said about how the Pope and in those who have his worldview are probably unwittingly being used by God to bring about his End of Days plan and purposes which he has ordained from before time began so disgusting these last paragraph the head of his meeting with Pres. Biden. Pope Francis delivered a statement on BBC radio fours thought for the day segment focusing his attention to what he called a succession of crisis is regarding healthcare environment food supplies in the economy, to say nothing of social, humanitarian, and ethical crisis.

Those are all codewords he he sees a word like environment and he doesn't think in terms of how can we be conservationists and and promote good environmental stewardship. He sees in terms of there is a man caused climate change catastrophe, organ, and the world theater understand of those words he uses all mean very different things to him than they would to someone who's more theologically or politically conservative. It goes on to say, the Pope urged listeners not to let these crises go to waste if her that that statement for never let crisis go to waste, advising that they present. Quote an opportunity quote to build together so that there will no longer be any borders unquote.

The Pope said that Francis stressed that the only way to pursue a quote writer horizon in moving forward is not through following Jesus Christ is the article the writer of the article writing that phrase, but rather quote through a renewed sense of shared responsibility for our world and an effective solidarity based on justice, a sense of our common destiny and a recognition of the unity of our human family and God's plan for the world unquote.

That's the Pope saying that last paragraph Mike, the Pope gave Biden an artistic ceramic tile depicting a man pointing toward St. Peter's Basilica across the Tiber River named the Pilgrim along with numerous papal documents including his controversial Abu Dhabi document on fraternity in which she and the grandmom on that. I'll tell you, Deb said that a quote pluralism and diversity.

Unquote of religions is quote willed by God. Unquote there is a lot there but everything there was completely not according to Scripture, but in the same spirit of where the world is going towards a a global government pluralism all these different things he mentioned in those those three paragraphs so to close the interview today. Mike what is your message to someone listening today whether their Roman Catholic weather evangelical whether there neither about the worldview that's being presented in those paragraphs, I just meant a mention about what the Pope is promoting and what the world is going headlong after and how can someone become right with God in the midst of that kind of confusing rhetoric. The question there is so little hope of the world today world is global crisis and the government is trying to tell people that they have the answer. Just follow us, but there is only one place you can find hope that's eternal hope and that is the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the sovereign God of this universe and everything that takes places under his sovereign control, but we also know that the God of this world is Satan. And he has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, and so we recognize that God has his plan of redemption for mankind. It is unfolding right before her eyes. This is happening according to God's plan not Joe Biden's plan are not the Pope's plan and so the only hope for those who are alive today is to put their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ to trust in the Lord Jesus Christ means to believe that he is the eternal son of God who was born of a virgin and then lived a sinless life, he was crucified on Calvary's cross to satisfy divine justice for those who would put their trust in him. He was raised three days later showing that God was satisfied with the sacrifice of his son and those who believe in the resurrection of Christ can have hope that one day they will be racial as well and should spend eternity with God in heaven, so that is a hope that we have solicit hope and soon and very soon were going to see the Lord Jesus returning for his church and the Bible says that when the church is gone.

The restrainer will be removed and that is the spirit of God dwelling on every born-again Christian and if we think the world is in chaos today. You can only imagine one the church is gone and the restrainer has left what this will look like, and so we make sure you have a sense of urgency claim the glorious gospel of Christ to those well we still have a chance especially with our circle of influence our loved ones or neighbors or coworkers because Jesus Christ is the only hope for those who are without him. Amen Mike and we do so appreciate your life. Dedication to doing that you came out of the Roman Catholic Church for being the church for decades. As a committed Roman Catholic out of a business career to go into full-time ministry to proclaim the message that you just explained the gospel of Jesus Christ and how the most important message. How we as sinners can be made right with a holy God that comes through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

Thank you so much for coming on the program I can. We just wish all of God's best in grace to you.

Your wonderful wife, Jane, and your ministry as well and your family is big on your show. I just love your Christian you as we made it more than ever today so keep up your that is all we have time for today so thank you for listening and just remember Jesus Christ and his word are the same yesterday and today and forever. So until next time think biblically live accordingly and stand firm.

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