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When Sickness Comes—How to Pray, What to Expect

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton
The Truth Network Radio
September 24, 2021 8:00 pm

When Sickness Comes—How to Pray, What to Expect

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton

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September 24, 2021 8:00 pm

GUEST: COSTI HINN, pastor and author, More Than a Healer

It’s not "if" you will get seriously sick or injured, not "if" you will face a trial that is out of your control, but "when".

This is because we live in a world that went from perfection to corruption due to Adam’s sin…and our sin. Man’s rebellion against God resulted in disease, violence, accidents, pain, conflicts, and ultimately death. “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23a).

So how should Christians view and respond to trials when they come our way? Should we pray to be healed of our maladies, expecting God to do so? What happens when God doesn’t answer our prayers the way we have asked?

Costi Hinn, our guest this weekend on The Christian Worldview, knows all about the errant theology and empty promises of “faith healers”. He is the nephew of internationally known faith healer fraudster Benny Hinn, with whom Costi formerly “ministered”.

God miraculously saved Costi out of that lucrative heresy and now he has written a book, More Than A Healer, to help readers understand that God uses sickness and trials to transform us and bring Him glory.

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When sickness comes how to pray what to expect. That is a topical discuss today right here on the Christian worldview radio program with the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ.

Did we host. Thank you for joining us today and supporting ministry of the Christian worldview and also our national sponsor Samaritan ministries provide a biblical solution to healthcare and find out more about Samaritan ministries in the Christian worldview by going to our website the Christian worldview.org it's not if you will get seriously sick or injured in life, not if you will face a trial that is out of your control. But when it will happen.

That is because we live in a world that went from perfection when God originally created it to corruption due to Adam sin, and by extension our sin man's rebellion against God resulted in disease violence, accidents, pain conflicts and ultimately death. Romans 623 says the wages of sin is death. The consequence of sin is death and corruption on this world. So how should Christians view and respond to trials when they invariably come our way. Should we pray to be healed of our maladies expecting God to do so.

What happens when God doesn't answer our prayers. The way we have asked Costa. Herein is our guest this week and on the Christian worldview. He knows all about the errant theology and empty promises of faith healers. He is the nephew of internationally known faith healer fraudster Benny Hinn, with whom cost he formally quote unquote ministered God miraculously saved costly out of that lucrative heresy and now cost. He has written a book entitled more than the healer to help readers understand that God uses sickness and trials to transform us and bring him glory. Now this topic of healing and how to pray and what to expect has much more personal relevance this week for our family. After my wife. Brody took a very treacherous fall from our attic through a trapdoor down to the concrete floor of our garage and she badly fractured her. She'll in will require surgery this coming week were already thankful knowing that this could have been so much worse than it is.

But we also know this is a serious injury and were not sure how this is going to turn out for her going forward. So we are in prayer about this and we would appreciate your prayer and our behalf.

This is something that not only we are going through, but I'm sure many of you are going through as well with your own circumstances. We have other friends and members of her own family who have even more serious health challenges that than we are facing right now so I think this conversation with cost. He Hinn will be of help not only to us but hopefully for you as well as we consider how to pray in the midst of trials in our life.

What we can expect from God and what ultimately his greatest purposes are that are even greater than sometimes what we pray for healing. Let's get to the first segment of the interview with cost. He Hinn cost eat. Thank you so much for coming back on the Christian worldview radio program today to talk about your brand-new book, which is just releasing now more than a healer you been on the program before in many listeners, you will remember your story but for those who haven't heard you previously described the world of faith healing that you were in that God brought you out of, I was steeped it pretty deeply. I grew up in it and then working at my goal is Benny and my dad is Henry and he was out practicing faith healer and pastor and evangelist for as long as I can remember growing up and so I grew up in that world and we're very close with uncle Benny and their ministry. I worked for him for almost a couple years and and so traveled the world live the high life.

All of that and we were definitely preaching faith healing gospel where Jesus will save you from your sin, but also he will heal you of all sickness and that confession is sort of a package deal in salvation is a package deal of the gospel is a package deal or not, that you confess your sin and you confess Christ as Lord and it will save you and then you confess by faith that you are healed and he'll heal you as well. And so it was a hybrid with the prosperity gospel in that Jesus is highest goal is for us to be healthy, wealthy and happy hereunder, and so I had believed that I taught that I eventually was saved out of that and that's a story that we talked about before in your show and wrote in the other book, God created the prosperity gospel sharing with the Lord's done in our life. And then of course the true gospel and balanced biblical teaching on healing money faith.

All of it, but most importantly the sovereign nature of our God and Jesus and the message of the gospel to pure and unadulterated vessel message of the gospel is repentance and faith in Christ. So we came out of that prosperity gospel faith healing world and now get the privilege of walking with the body of Christ and truth.

Yeah, that's the greatest miracle of healing that you are able. The God brought you out of that whole world. So much of what we see on Christian television on the Internet and so forth has healing. As such, a central part of the so-called ministries and there there's a spectrum out there. There is the kind of the world you came from, with actually faith healers and touching people knocking them over of everyone seen on TV but there's also a spectrum where you even more charismatic and who are into that kind of thing but there into believing in that God heals and got a faith to have God heal you and and even in the evangelical church there. There's a bit of this faith healing worldview.

I'd say some talk about this wide spectrum of different perspectives on healing. Yeah, I think there is a spectrum, no doubt, and what will find is the more extreme the right that it's always God's will and you just need to have enough faith. And if there's you not getting healed or something wrong and not tapping into what Jesus is Artie provided for, but I think we need to discuss another element of it. On the other side of the spectrum, which would be probably for people in our circle statement where you been obedient, you been righteous you been following the Lord, and God is not doing something that you want them to do or you you do have a need and now you pray for and I'm not accusing you or I or all of us of this. I would just say the tagline or the phrase I would give it is prosperity gospel light like a diet version where we think that if were good and were moral, or more obedient and man.

We are not like that faith healer or not like that prosperity preacher that God is going to bless us and I cite sites I think we could find a good example of this in the life of Job. Here we have a righteous man weave a man who is holy, with a man who is obedient woman who is blessed in his wealthy things are going great for him.

And while I don't think that the devil is going to have a conversation with God about all of us and be given permission to strike us with illness or do all that the devil was allowed to do to Job. I think there's a great example there even the righteous will suffer.

Even the righteous will go through challenging times. Faith does not guarantee that you're going to get healed. It doesn't even guarantee that if you walk right to sleep at all the blessings of God and the atonement in Christ are to pour out in your life now. What salvation and true faith guarantees us is life in heaven. Life eternal treasure in heaven. And yes, the talk a time when no more pain, no more sickness no more tears will all be a reality when the dead in Christ will rise when all of us will be made new wood will get a glorified body, but for now we have to trust in faith for salvation. We look to Christ for that, and we have to trust him based on who he is as a sovereign God who is good no matter what, even when things are not good and he is loving even when we don't feel very loved the way we want to be loved, which is often an argument state Lord blessed me Lord, help me, Lord, give me the breakthrough give me the healing give me the save the children give me the job promotion we want life to go good. We gotta say this, there's there's nothing wrong with that. It's entirely human and entirely normal to want to be able to pay your bills do not want to watch your child suck at it. We just need to remember though that God doesn't change in the midst of those circumstances when things aren't going the way they want and we are a person of faith and we've been faithful, we still can trust that God is still who he is. I think there's a spectrum here were Christians need to take a deeper look at what it means to trust the Lord and that's of the book drives. We covered in chapter 1 that Jesus is a healer, but then the rest of the book I wanted people to go on a journey with me through all of these other beautiful elements of who the Lord is because faith can become shortsighted based on what God does for us, not based on all that he is yeah you described that as more of a transactional faith versus the transformational faith just describe what that is, briefly, so listeners understand that concept. Yeah transactional faith. Just like a bank transaction. I swipe the card to get money out or I do this for you.

You do this for me and we do that with God. Sometimes whether we need to or not you know God.

If I obey him to do this, do that in all of him asking you for Lord. Is this if I do my part.

God, I'm just asking you to do and then you just fill in the blank. That's transactional, transformational, faith is God you are sovereign, you're in control, God. You and Folger plan God in your will be done and in the process. If that means. Blessings of wealth and it means open doors and beans opportunity for me, protect my heart from those things help me to walk in righteousness help to be obedient help you to remember a steward that I am only blessed to be a blessing for your glory that my hands are to be open I receive with one hand open. I give with my other hand open that I'm part of your ecosystem Lord transformed the way I think none of this is deserved. All of its grace and mercy and then David we put over the other side. Well, Lord, help me when things are going well transform my thinking protect me from believing you're not good because my situation is good. Transform my view of faith.

Help me to be the James 12 through four that I count it all joy transform my mind from aggressive, angry, grieving frustrated to not aggressive but still grieving.

I'm allowed to mourn.

I'm allowed to be Saddam allowed to even feel pain, but help me to be filled with joy still give me a of Romans five rejoice in suffering attitude. Give me a character that's proven in which Alden says leads to hope because I know that I'm safe and I think through all the different examples in the New Testament like ill Peter and the guys who get beaten and they count it a privilege to suffer for the name and Paul and Silas are praising in the prison and there just prompted sing praises to the Lord. No matter what. Look at the pattern of the New Testament. Even Stephen in acts seven. The first martyr is looking upward and very much like the example of Christ praying that things that are happening and not be held against his murdering persecutors what a transformational way to look at suffering in this world. So God keep me stable.

Humble faithful if things are going great and Lord help me to be faithful and endure when things are not just transformational with God. You do what you do and change the image of Christ. Transactional is God. I do what I do now. You do what I want the Christian worldview David Weeden returns in just a moment. Six starts God is our refuge and strength a very present help in trouble.

Therefore we will not fear, though the earth should change the earth is changing strong delusion has bewitched the leaders and peoples of this world. So what's a Christian to do focus on the most important thing God and his perfect and powerful attributes are new featured resources. Dr. Steven Lawson's book show me your glory.

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Let's go to them. The foundation you have some foundational principles about the why question why do we get sick.

Why do difficult things happen to us, that sort of thing that people often ask Willis answer that question. First you say in the book number one sickness and death entered the world through original sin of Adam and Eve to sickness and death can strike us because of our own sin. There can be that we've done something in God strikes us with sickness and death. That's you see examples of an Scripture number three, though sickness and death are not always the result of our sin and number for you right God can use sickness and death for his glory and the good of others, so maybe pick one that is often abused or misunderstood today. Of those, four fundamentals you write about on on why we get sick or why we have trials, or why we have disease and death.

That's a good question. I would have actually picked one well you can summarize all four if you like Lexi sickness and death can be used by God's glory and the good of others. In the book I used an example that struck me when I read it for the first time James Montgomery Boyce faithful pastor legendary Harvard grad is a theologian and he gets diagnosed with terminal cancer. He gets up, it's Sunday, May 7 the years 2000 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania takes the pulpit to address his congregation and a lot of them and said hey what can we do our praying the prayer and were praying. What we do serve you.

What we do to help you with all the trickling through until he gets up and he captures the perspective that I wanted to convey that point that God uses sickness he can use it is crazy to some people and some viewpoints on this but Kenny can use sickness and suffering for his glory and the good of others. Boyce gets up and says number of you asked what you can do and it strikes me that what you can do. You Artie are doing. This is a good congregation. You do the right things are praying certainly and administered of that by many people and he basically says a lot of you said what what can you pray for.

Should you pray for a miracle. He says we are free to do that, of course, but the same God who allowed the cancer to enter my body is the same God that can do a miracle in so he can but all the miracles happen.

What I really would like you to pray for is that God be glorified. Pray for the glory of God and if he said if you think of God glorifying himself in history and you say where in all of history as God is most glorified himself. Boyce says he did at the cross of Christ.

It wasn't by delivering Jesus from the cross, though he could have. Jesus said, don't you think I could call down. My father from heaven to send 10 legions of angels to my defense, but he didn't do that. And yet that's where God was both glorified it. So David, I would put in front of all of us, not a asceticism that all you should just suffer and don't you dare expect anything from God. He just wants to crush you and make you sick so he can get a bunch of Gloria. Not that attitude that in all things God can be glorified and what will here.

This is the challenging part, often from prosperity preachers you might hear your famous or big-name real Roxana Gion on TV or on YouTube and where they say they say really pithy things that are true, but then apply them in the wrong way.

Here's an example. It might hear prosperity preachers that God's going to give you purpose in your pay the breakthroughs on the other side of the garden right now your blessing is coming right and they do all data people shout the standard. They say a man let's go yes give me the blessing in exchange for my burden. Give me that the prosperity after the pain and all of that, there's a little truth there. Here's the thing that we need to understand God will and can use your pain, and he will turn it into purpose. But it will not necessarily mean job promotions healing bigger houses Bentleys and you. Looking back, and never have to go through another trial like you did. It will be that he is glorified through your faithfulness in those moments when people get sick or they're going through a lot and they still rejoice.

Or like James Boyce. They say pray for the glory of God. People go, what man what a perspective how is it that you think that way and what you do because Christ Christ is in me.

I have him. I have everything maternity outweighs what I'm experiencing right now. That which is eternal over that which is temporal. It's an other world perspective and that is weird.

It's different and it gets people's attention. It brings God glory.

Another example of for the book is from Nancy Guthrie, who is no stranger to pain and will losing children. God has taken all of that and while it'll never replace the loss of her children and it will never make the pain disappear and it doesn't mean that. Oh she's just fine. God has taken all of that in the years helped to shape her ministry through it and now her and her husband have the opportunity to minister to parents who are grieving her and her husband of the opportunity to teach people biblical truth when they feel like God is abandoned and she has the opportunity to walk with countless women teaching them theological truths that can anchor them in the darkest times of their life. I have to be honest with you as well for me. I look at the journey out of prosperity gospel in all the chaos and pain. We endured being saved out of it and the loss of family relationships and brother. I'm talking to David wheat right now my friend, fellow brother in Christ, whether it's on a radio show or whether you and I were just talking in a conference somewhere his brothers.

It's not about talking publicly is the simple I know you because God saved me out of heresy. I know my church friends.

I get to serve. I'm saved. My wife has dear sisters in Christ, we have the truth that we stand on because of all that pain so even in the middle of all that I can still think God and say what I do anything different will yeah I don't ever want to stand and I hate that I was trapped in heresy, but God is taken all of it and now I get the opportunity to relate to people and minister to people who are stuck in that are coming out of it to soak.

That puts God in the driver seat and me in the backseat. The landlord allows and does as he pleases. And then I serve based on what he's put in front of us. For me to do it is in its or his glory and for our transformation in the Acosta. Herein is our guest today on the Christian Realty as we talk about healing and cost EE you have another four points early on in the book we talk about God and healing them in a list a number specifically asking about. One of them. The first one is God doesn't heal everyone all the time. That should be patently obvious. People get sick they get cancer. They get whatever and they die so that should be obvious, although sometimes people don't get that they they think that you know why I am sick of my wife is sick or whatever. And God should healer but that's the first task second point is God doesn't heal solely based on one's faith, so not another words if I have lots of faith I really trust God will heal me or someone I love someone I wanted to talk about but I want to list the other two before before you do number three God doesn't perform healing for a price of courses. Another patently obvious when you go to these faith healers. People spend on donating spend all kinds of money do this and they don't get healed and the number four God will heal all believers in heaven. Of course that's truth right from Scripture. I think most true biblical Christians understand that we look forward to that. But go back to that point to their God doesn't heal solely based on one's faith and I think this can be a difficult one because you've you've already touched on this that in one is a faithful Christian dimension like Job, then comes along this unrelenting trial.

Just in one thing on top of another red death for a friend of ours had came has a cancer diagnosis recently and she listed under caring bridge site just a couple of things she had endured cancer many years ago and she went in for annual checkup and then the first test came back with another test and that test went the wrong way and then the type of cancer went the wrong way and then the stage a cancer let me it was just one thing after the other. What the way that you don't want to go and so to talk about that second point there that God doesn't heal solely based on one's faith that we been faithful, but the trial comes in just unrelenting. It just gets worse yet, this can relieve burdens for people who believe even as good Christians who are studying the Bible and other study Bible on the nightstand every night.

This they can creep it that I'm believing God and praying and seeking you.

I mean there's people who will fast and pray whole church is crying, it's on the bulletin board or the Facebook page or whatever you put your prayer requests on it, your church and thousands of praying the people say at work where two or more incalculable throw everything out.

There were two or more gather. Jesus is going to do it here in Millville add things to things and they mean well I get it. A lot of them are just trying it know that "Jeremiah 2911. I've got plans for the Lord's plans. He's going to prosper you and God wants to do.

Even the Bible circles were people just have forgotten, or perhaps have not been taught what is the picture of faith. What is the full counsel of God on blessing and on healing. In this case, I wanted this point to be in the book because there are instances in Jesus's ministry in which he was moved with compassion by the fate of an individual.

We see that in Luke chapter 8 the woman who has a bleeding issue crawls through the crowd just to touch the handle his garment, his robe and then Jesus feels power leave him and then is moved by her faith is very moving for him. He says who touched me.

The disciples are set there mastery could meters. The people everywhere blooming touched you in the nominal power left. This was something different. He feels her and then in the midst of that though I never want people to miss this in Luke 848. He looks at her and Ace's daughter, your faith is healed to go in peace now, we look at that and sometimes people say looksee. He just he was moved by faith.

It because of her faith he healed her not to know. Don't leave it there daughter uses a familial term daughter, your faith has healed you. Okay, great, he feels her physically. She obviously knew he was in was pursuing him and she had faith in him as the son of God it wasn't faith is of course to get hurt you. Faith in the son of God heals her and thence is going, peace, or why the world would she go away from Jesus in peace. If she wasn't at peace with God and not some superficial peace like a lion healed and now I'm fine, but no, being reconciled to God, which is exactly what John the Baptist was shouting about the whole time telling Jews. They need to be baptized now for real. It was peace with God.

So he feels her physically and spiritually. Then you jump over to John chapter 5. One of my favorite stories.

The story that she opened my eyes to a lot of this and got me on the journey, Jesus healed a cripple at the pool of Bethesda that man John records doesn't even know Jesus is and what he uses the word no.

In the Greek uses this word, I dotes over. That means not even perceive the man didn't even perceive Jesus was. It wasn't like he was at all this is this is this healer got the note he didn't have a clue so heat he didn't know Jesus, let alone have enough faith in to get his healing in Jesus just heals him in Luke five Jesus again heals based on faith. It appears he heals a man's soul through salvation. In Luke 517 to 26 member. The Pharisees were questioning Jesus's authority to forgive sins.

That's what he starts with without me and he says your sins are forgiven.

The Pharisees get so mad and there thinking what in the UK who who is this guy, he fixes the power to forgive sit while Jesus knowing their questioning his authority and and whether or not it is the power to forgive sins does what he heals the man physically to prove it. And so it wasn't even about the man's faith.

The quote get a human.

It was about as forgiving of the man's sins, and then because the Pharisees questioned it. Jesus is all by the way I'm God wants this boat heals it. Jesus was doing miracles and healing people to teach the people in the world who he was, really has the power to do this. It was not through healing crusades. It was not through no tricks and YouTube videos and camera angles that wasn't through any of the type of almost hypnotic power of suggestion tactics that faith you would use today. Jesus went around sealing the deal for people from a salvific standpoint and also healing them instant pain uselessness rent he could do it. He was the great physician and so I want to encourage Christians to see. Yes press in in prayer. Plead with the great physician to heal you, but then model Jesus's prayer in Luke 2242 when he says that even the father himself, if possible, let this cup pass from me, the cup of wrath that he was about to drink on the cross. Then he says, but not my will but yours be done is a lot of faith healers out there who say praying your will be done is a prayer of unbelief. I would challenge that biblically and exhort all of us to go back to the model of Christ in our prayers to ask boldly. Like a child, no doubt. But then, trust and faith, your will be gone not lied and asked the question Lord we want to teach me through this.

What can I see in your word that will shape me in the new way. How can I become more like the situation and I think if we follow that prayer is answered every Christian worldview David Weeden returns in just a moment when it comes to your health care provider.

What are some words you would use to describe your experience with comfort. These confidence will have Samaritan ministries and those are just some of the words are members use frequently like Samaritan member, former long-term board member NL staff member Jamie Pyles uses to describe his 24 year relationship with Samaritan ministries target words into the comfort of the relief you have. As you come to terms that Samaritan ministries is real is flyable is working. Is there we just thank God that he's allowed us to have that kind of peace be in a situation where I can focus on things that are far more important to be part of a growing caring community of Christians who faithfully share each other's medical needs.

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David Weeden here volunteer host of the Christian worldview radio program. Listeners are often surprised to learn that we as a ministry pay for air time on the radio station website or app on which you hear the program. The primary way this expense is recouped is through listeners like you donating to the ministry or becoming a monthly partner.

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And you're involved. Of course, in the church as well. And in this is a health issue. Of course, so how do you explain the amount of division. I would say even delusion and fear that we can understand why that's going on the world but it but also the church over this issue of covert 19. What does that tell you that were seeing the level of the safe fear, and just division really over this issue of covert, 19 first exposed how poorly we've been taught. The church and this is the selling of picking on everyone. I'm not just with their work get a hold mirror up on on all of us… Say that were in this together how poorly we've been taught. We watched as let's start with the obvious as faith healers were unable to cast the coded 19 virus out of the world. That should tell you something I we watched is faith healers and many others were unable to heal people who got coded and died so there's a reality there and that's heartbreak with people in our church and friends and family of people in our church died from from the virus we had other people crippled by the reality of this and that is not to demean that it didn't affect people, but you're not saying that and I'm not saying that I think we watched as people went into a frightful fear mode and then as just can speak freely here… Swing it either extreme.

I did. I think as we saw the data come out as we saw that maybe it wasn't going to be the black plague where were all in the gutters holding the dead guy and believe me I think a lot of us as pastors would've been out there needed to be equal to Christians were everywhere, Christians historically been those who start hospitals so is very real, but at the same time, we saw that it was not what we thought it might be you had sort of this divide in the body of Christ to people that go back to meeting and in some of them did that with masks and not some of this, not at this a lot of district there different people swing to different extremes. I would just say this. We saw a lot of people cut themselves off from the body of Christ and why do I say that means we poorly talk is we went to two extremes. We had in Jesus name. The virus is going to be gone. We rebuke you coded 19 on one side hit on the other side nobody's opened her door and wiping opening with Clorox and fight this virus is going to kill us all, and like take both sides need to remember God and his church, and the truth and I think it did expose how fearful we are of death and of sickness, and here's what I wonder. And I say this with respect and it's just a question interrogative question that we can all wrestle with. I wonder how much we really believe what we hear in pulpits and what we teach in pulpits and how much we really want to be an eternity and I'm not saying in a morbid way. Let's all die, but I wonder, do we really believe this stuff for teaching. Are we really excited about Paul. We long for his return. We we took to be with Christ is the ultimate to live his is Christ a great way to live Christ today, and the die is gain.

I went to that as a pastor I got a kid with cancer this thing first happened, yes, we took a more cautious, optimistic and cautious at the same time route as we were told like everyone ate if you got pre-existing conditions. He got cancer this that so we were more cautious, but there came a point as well. Where and I never stopped ministering and serving it and stop connecting with neighbors and going outside and see what we have life to live and again not an overly morbid weight but I did come to a point, my wife, her home kid to a point where we just that you know what if we die from this virus we die not to be foolish.

There is no vaccine conversation at the time except for chaos, there still is on that. In that regard, but at the time it is still willing to live as Christians and were knocking to get cynical were not going to know share the news article that comes out of his ever you remember that time it's like one article was a everyone's gonna die six months and then the other articles where this is a hoax, but then you and we just had like a neighbor get it and one of the people in our church almost dying of it and I took a sip. There's a real virus but there's extremes. What does the Bible say and so we try to live a Romans 14 attic is a church I think are our elder team did a great job. We got back to it. Just within a couple months and Odyssey just told people hey let's let's not divide over this. Let's be careful with extremes, but man I just as a younger pastor David. I look and think wow we were not ready for that from a theological standpoint, ran from a body like standpoint and thankfully live in Arizona where it's got a wild wild West out here. We went right back to it. Pretty soon, but I feel for my brothers and sisters in California and I went over there a few times to do ministry under the radar and could go to restaurants. It was a ghost town.

Everywhere you just see feeder. You see a lot of Peter and I think that's evidence of a lack of trust in God.

Notice of not saying concern about same care on same fear.

The level of fear that we saw shows that we don't trust God as much as we thought we did and we don't know our God like we claim to inside think hopefully will continue see revival in churches and about where you are but where I am.

We have seen an explosion mission problems at our church. We were don't know get mad at us. Everyone but we we're doing Saturday services and Sunday were five service. I know some people get mad and say does too many services in your now that's just five churches where this isn't the time for the mark Deborah Jonathan Lehman know multiservice is a multiple church cuts all the time.

For that we have so many people we can't turn them away and we have a friend about a church up the road. Another one of the west side of Phoenix.

They are building a new parking lot because it's revival, it's awesome to see which let me be fair shows us the other side. There was this hunger. This this volcano that was building and were seen explosion of people that are tired of playing games. They're tired of the flux they want.

They want the gospel they want to grow want to get after it and are loving and caring. We are so concerned no doubt about the sick and the hurting and code that is real in that sense, but at the same time were knocking to stop being the church and this is coming from our family got it twice just so you know you can like we can drink upon water outside and be fine at this point but we got it twice and that taught us a lot that I know it such a such a hot button but I hope people will stay biblical and stay balanced on all sides that I think it goes back to what Christians were believing is probably in large part due to what they've been taught and I think it shows us something was lacking in the biblical teaching from pulpits, and I think that's why your your book on sickness and health and healing is important because it gives a biblical understanding of how God operates and healing against not transactional. It's it's meant to be transformational for God's glory just a couple more questions for you. Cost Ian Costa Hinn as our guest today here on the Christian really the name of his title of his book is more than a healer. I like the subtitle, not the Jesus you want but the Jesus you need and I think that's a good way to describe that he's also that the present founder for the gospel ministry that provide sound doctrine for everyday people through weekly videos and articles in a podcast. The website there is for the gospel.org we have a link to our website the Christian worldview.org to more questions for you.

One comes from chapter 8 of your book when someone else in our life that we love. Maybe not a loved one, but maybe just someone a friend were knocking to be going down the road really intimately with that person as it would be if someone was a very close friend or family member you'll hear people say were praying for you or we know the trial is difficult and bad in trying to find of the words to say are the things to do.

How should a believer pray for another believer, with regards to healing with regards to giving them words of encouragement communicating to them is are going through this trial. How would you answer that yet think it's a both and we both want to pray for the Lord to heal our brother or sister or friend or child who ever admin same time I dare say we ought to pray for the glory of God to be seen.

Here's the challenge. If we have been taught theologically, the glory of God is the chief end of our existence on earth than a prayer like that's gonna bother us and if we haven't come to grips with that and so give example.

It had multiple people pray for our son to be healed and churches and friends and pastors and different people all over the place and I'm never bothered with somebody saying, Lord, we pray and ask that you heal Timothy extended stays up, but also be glorified no matter what. And should you choose to take him early or allow that he be taken early by cancer. We pray that your glory would still be no and that she would bring comfort and peace and strength. No matter what those are prayers to the price. I think we would be careful in assuming so when were praying for someone maybe use tact. Like if I were praying for David. He was struggling with an illness that we we didn't really see is terminal. It was just a challenging thing. I may not say Lord healed David a but if it is your will that he died it make may not be time for that for some to skin a pray for the Lord to heal you and and give you strength to endure, but if I'm with you in hospice statement and your lying there and I'm praying for you in that moment and the prognosis is not good. My prayers going to be different. I'm can ask the Lord a huge I am and also acknowledge before the Lord. Father is clear. The situation is dire in its it's looking like this is closer and closer to the end. Then we would ever desire. But we ask that your will be done and we do pray still because we are allowed and we employ to heal David and yet in all of this if your will is that he come home now give them comfort and strength help us to be a witness help him to bring you glory all the way until his final breath, so it's situational you look at what's happening and use logic and biblical reasoning, and I think probably empathy just generally speaking, when you do a better job with that. The body of Christ. Empathy would meet him him to feel the moment if you will notice feel your feelings Adam and empathize with inside I would encourage people to have some situational awareness. There's a book by Nancy Grubb met Nancy Guthrie, I read through call but wish what grieving people wish you do. There's a lot of wisdom in a book like that. What we don't want to do is no hay chin up you know Paco, it's good to be okay and God's got this and all the Rob I think we do that on a human level like with wristbands and stuff and not against using that and having a wristband that says God, stop this at no problem view that may be a good reminder for you to know that God is sovereign. I understand, but we had at one point, you know, got given a shirt and it was about how you know such and such tics cancer this way and that, like that type of stuff doesn't help. I don't need a license plate frame that says what cancer but were in a due to cancer on Timothy's behalf like no thanks. I my God will determine that, but I'm going to pray humbly and yet confidently so I hope that helps people. You don't need to to make T-shirts about where you're going to hit cancer just pray and have some tact and trust the Lord Costa Hinn with us today in the Christian worldview talking about his brand-new book more than a healer cost you see in chapter 3.

That chapter is titled he is Savior healing for your body is not as important as healing for your soul. We talk a lot about healing today how to have a biblical or godly perspective on it, why is the healing of your soul far more important than the healing of your body will you can have healing for your body and you could live to be 200 years older. No sites can freeze your body. We've got up a company over here in the Scottsdale area that will freeze your body in in order to keep it.

Where is until medical science comes up with a way to bring you back. I kid you not.

The real real thing you can you can have that lets a science comes up and it's not can happen as its appointed to a man once to die. The Bible says.

I believe that the state through until Christ returns. And so, let's say you come on back 200 years later, just about the same problem. Your depraved Savior. And when you die again hell is where you're heading and so we gotta get really honest or do I need more lipstick on a corpse so to speak. If I'm dead in sin and addressing myself up with healing and material and all the stuff that's the American dream of the good life. It I'm still dead inside.

Ephesians 2 says I'm dead in my trespasses and sins before I'm saved so what I want is yes and amen for people to get healed and experience God's work in their life and I want everyone suffering that we were trying to know say everyone should experience, but if you get to the highest mountain peak of life and you've got it all. If you don't have Christ you have not. If you want saved internally in your heart truly blood bought faith in Christ saved you can get healed of 50 things you could see tumors fall off your body and you could watch as the Lord grows you a new limb if he does not transform your heart spiritually. None of it matters and it's the idea that Jesus put before the rich, his disciples may notice a man can gain the whole world but lose his soul. What has he profited nothing. We need salvation more than anything, so that would be my encouragement to people. Make sure you are right with the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you for concluding our conversation today that way. Cost is just knowing that we have all have a great desire to be healthy and to be healed and were sick or injured or whatever's going on a life or other types of trials that calm financial, relational, you name it we want: court healing from those things but there's nothing more important than our souls being healed of the sin sickness we have that alienates us from God and the only way to be restored to be healed, to be reconciled to God as to the person of Jesus Christ and his work for us on our behalf on the cross so caustic, thank you for coming on the Christian worldview today. Thank you for writing this book more than a healer were grateful for you and your ministry and we just wish all of God's best, and grace to you. Thank you so much, they would appreciate it and keep up the great work.

Your blessing will, I hope you gain from that interview with Costa Hinn, you know there are a lot of current events going on in the world as we all know right now but having an understanding of who God is and his purpose in the trials we face in this fallen world makes understanding that in trusting in him far more important than even focusing on the major events that are going on because if you're in the middle of a trial. Those current events don't seem nearly as important when you're facing some personal trial in your own family may be a health trial or otherwise is a quote in his book by Charles Spurgeon I thought was really good. It says this I have learned to kiss the wave that throws me against the rock of ages. Another was to embrace the trials as something that God is allowed in our lives to draw us closer to him. That will ultimately bring him glory be good for us again. The book is more than a healer. My Costa Hinn we have it linked@ourwebsitethechristianworldview.org wanted to comment on his comment about getting cobra twice in their family but off the weight that is running out of time.

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