NRB Chronicals - Generations Deep

While in our big chronicles, I never cease to be amazed at who comes around the corner all the time, and we're here with Gina Burkmeyer. And I saw the cover of her book, and I immediately went, oh wow, I can hardly wait to talk to Gina. Because the name of this book is Generations Deep, Unmasking Inherited Dysfunction and Trauma, like all of us, to rewrite our stories through faith and therapy, right?

Yes. And so it sounds like there's a story there, Gina. Well, there really is. It's my family's story, and it starts with my great-grandparents. So it goes all the way back to them coming over to this country, and then it comes forward through my grandparents, and my mother, and myself, and eventually talking about my father, and just the generational trauma and dysfunction that repeated from one generation to the next and to the next, and how I actually had the privilege of being a cycle breaker, but that took faith and therapy. And as a licensed therapist, I'm a trauma therapist, but I'm a faith-informed trauma therapist, recognizing the importance of both of those things is really important. And how the truth of how we're wired speaks to how God has designed us and created us for healing, if we have the right guidance on the journey.

That's really fun. I had an opportunity one time to do a hundred interviews over a weekend at the American Association of Christian Counselors, and it was actually in this hotel. And as I was doing it, I was tasked to do all these interviews with all these counselors. And so I started praying, God, give me something that would be like, because I got to do all these interviews in such a short period of time, I want to get to something that's meaningful for the listeners and for everybody. And so he gave me this question that was pretty simple, but it's just so applicable to what you were saying.

He said, in 2 Corinthians chapter 1, it says, God, the God of all comfort, comforts us so that we can be a comfort in those, right? And I would just share that passage, right, that we can comfort others with the comfort we are comforted with. And I'd say, how does that play out in your life?

And one after the other, after the other, after I did a hundred interviews, right? And if they were, you know, counseling people for suicide, guess what? They'd attempted suicide, right? If they were counseling post-abortive women, they were post-abortive. If they were counseling, whatever it was, right down to, I had this psychiatrist, man, this guy had the goatee and a three-piece suit, and I was like, well, I'm going to try this question, God, but I don't think it's going to work.

And he had been insane. And so, I mean, literally, like clinically in an institution, insane. And God had comforted him, and now he was there, and so, and this, I love what you're saying, because it's so helpful to know, right, both that the stuff that's going on can be healed, right? You can be a Christian and live under all this bondage, but that is what God has in mind for you. But it's going to take a decision to face the pain, but also to get help to do it, right?

It will take help. And what's so important to recognize through how God has wired us is it isn't just this cognitive thing that we think about, right? Our brain has a top down, which is the youngest part of the brain, and then we have a bottom up, which is the oldest part of the brain. And often, because God in His infinite wisdom did not design us with a trauma box, so we don't have anywhere to store that in the brain.

So it sort of just kind of bounces around, looking for somewhere to go. And oftentimes it gets stored in parts of the body. So in order to get to that, we have to use that bottom up approach, right in line with how God has wired and designed us for healing and growth. So having faith informed therapists who understand the evidence based practices of what that looks like is critical to the journey, so that your faith can stay intact and even be emboldened and grow through the process of your healing. Are you familiar with Dan Allender? Oh, very. I actually trained under Dan Allender. I did a training for advanced trauma certification with Dan Allender, yes. So when I think of trauma therapy, it was naturally where I was like, man, oh, what an amazing, amazing story, you know, of God, you know, just somebody that, and clearly it's just so relevant for everybody, right, in this day and age, because COVID itself is trauma, right? It is absolutely trauma. It is absolutely trauma. And I think that we may see something generationally as a result of it, some of the fears that we cultivated in the realm of COVID, how we can pass that to the next generation and to the next, maybe covertly, but also overtly. What I often tell my clients is maybe your generational trauma doesn't look exactly like the generation before you, but if we follow the root down, follow the stem down to the root, the root is going to be in those generations before.

So we never know how that's going to play out from one generation to the next. So wow. And so when you wrote this book, which obviously you've got your own story, but I'm curious, who are you hoping would pick it up? So it's funny because, so we have, of course, people get reviews for books, and one of my favorite reviews is, if you are a person who cares about people and interacts with people, then you'll want to read this book. And I love that because it really is for all of us not only to address what we know that we've endured, but to help us understand what we don't know that we have endured. So in the book, there is story, there is the process of how faith and therapy work together, but there are also questionnaires and assessments that you can take, some that were created just for this book, to help people, give them permission to recognize, you know that thing that you went through that you sort of shoved under the table? That was actually trauma, and that's why you're having these difficulties in your relationships now. So for anybody who's maybe in that unsettled place, it has had a, it's been very well received in the recovery community. It's had a huge message in the recovery community. Teachers are embracing this because how I talk about trauma impacting the child brain and development, so teachers have been embracing this.

So I really think it is a book for just about anybody. Yeah, that would be the, I'm sure that it is because I think we don't, any of us have to look very far to go, you know, why is it that this little thing just sets me off? It looks like I know I'm balling like a baby. Or why is it that, you know, all these things, but also biblically, and I'm just interested in exploring this with you since you're in front of me and I'm like, okay, well I'll just hit you with something.

Let's do it. So you may have known that number six, Aaronic blessing, right? May the Lord bless you and keep you and make His face to shine on you. That the idea of God's face is blessing and so if He can, if you can look at Him, look at you, you know, you get the light that Moses, you know, light, it's wonderful. But what I understand is that when He looks at you and you can really get right in His face, like you can really get there, which is going to take a lot of courage and a lot of stuff that unfortunately the Israelites couldn't do that, but if you could do it, then He doesn't just look at you.

He goes back and He goes forward. So He is actually putting a blessing on that father and that grandfather and all that. So as you broke the cycle that you're describing that you broke, am I, are you tracking with me? Yes, absolutely. And the possibility that you're setting free these people that are clear back, you know, for generations. Absolutely. I think there's some truth to that.

There's, there's this almost, um, salvific effect, excuse me, that happens for the whole family, right? Going backward and to your point, going forward. But to what you said about looking on us and how we look upon Him, do you know what the number one thing is that prevents us from allowing that is shame? Right. So because shame is the great divider, I think it is the number one. They talk about pride being present in the garden. I think shame was there before pride was because I think the pride was a response to their shame. And I think they turned away because of their shame.

They were naked and they were afraid and they were ashamed, right? All of that goes together. So when we can address that shame, then we get to, we get to say, okay God, I'm going to let you look at this. I am scared and, and, and I know this is like dirty rags before you, but I know you love me more than that and I know that your son's blood washes away all that dirt. So I'm going to take my shame and I'm going to lay it at the feet of Jesus and I'm going to let you look at me through those eyes.

It's so cool you mentioned that. I process stuff all the time and I actually have to do a talk on shame at a boot camp. We do John Eldridge kind of boot camps.

Oh yeah, I'm very familiar with John Eldridge. And so we've got, I've got a shame talk that I'm actually leading off because they consider me the Hebrew so I'm going to break down shame from a Hebrew standpoint. And I was processing, I don't know if you've ever seen the Corrie Tim Boone documentary that was done in Holland about her life. Haven't seen the documentary, read all the books, have not seen the documentary. And so when you trace the word shame, you hit it right on the button as far as I'm concerned. Is it that moment right before the fall it says, right, they, they were naked, but they weren't ashamed.

Okay. So Corrie Tim Boone was in the German concentration camp and they're telling this story of them stripping them all these, can you imagine? And what she told to her sister who unfortunately died in the concentration camp was, I can't take, I can't take this.

I'm so ashamed. Standing there naked and cold in front of these Nazis that just absolutely, you know, this picture is just unbelievable and unthinkable, right? And she's, what she said was just like, Oh my gosh, that, that so much nails it because she said that all of a sudden I got a picture of our Lord on the cross and realized that he was naked. And when I realized that he can do that being, we're talking about God himself naked on the cross. I don't think any of us want to even look at that in our mind. Right.

And she said when she did that, that she could endure it because I've been, I've been thinking about that whole idea of shame and going, you know, that's mentioned about five times in the 119th Psalm that King David found a way to go to the word to get covered. Because I think that's what we're, we need the blood of Christ to cover that shame. Yes.

But the problem is we don't even know where we're naked. Yes. And that's why we need help, right? Right.

Absolutely. And that is why I think it's so important to have informed therapists who understand that we can't always come at it from here. Sometimes we have to come at it, you know, the front of the brain. Sometimes we have to come at it from the back, right, and get those, those more, those older parts of ourselves where all of that is stored. But that God redeems all of that.

And he can come in and he can do work through all of those things. He has, the things that he has wired our brains to do is incredible. And the healing journey that he has wired us for, if you have the right guidance, is one that, what you mentioned earlier about all those therapists who said, pass it on, right? Because God never heals us just so we can like say, oh look, I'm healed. I get to, look at my trophy, look at my healed trophy. No, it's so we can go out, free people, free people, right? And that's what we want to do. Healed people help heal people. Oh, this is such a significant book.

I, I hate I don't have hours to give to it. Thank you. Because what an amazing, so where do you live? St. Louis, Missouri. How cool. Generations Deep.

Gina Burtmeyer. Do you have a website? How, how do you want your people to get connected to you?

So people can find me on social media at my out loud voice, my out loud voice, right? Good for you. Thank you. And then my website is GenerationsDeep.com. That's a great thing. So you just have the, it's like GenerationsDeep.com. How easy is that? Nice and simple.

And oh my goodness, I think you're going to be blessed. And then like it's a good idea to reach out and call, right? Yeah. Connect with me. Absolutely. I can see at your website that obviously they can get there because you know, one of the steps in finding help is just to ask and having the courage to say, you know, because Dan Elder himself, John Eldridge, those people are constantly getting up counseling, right?

And that's why they write the books the way they do. And that's why I wrote this book the way I did, because it's like I'm in the room with you. I can take you through the things. I can help you explore the things and then encourage you to go to the next level to get the additional help that you need.

So yes, would love for people to reach out. Just spectacular. Thank you, Gina. God bless. God bless you.