Charlie Grills An FBI Agent

Hey, everybody. Fan of the Charlie Kirk show. It's really interesting. I have a conversation with an FBI agent here on this episode, and I thought he was coming on the show to agree with my views on the FBI. He has a difference of opinion. We reconciled after. It got a little heated, but I think you'll enjoy this.

We see things completely differently. I'm really glad he came on the show. Stuart Kaplan comes on, and he has an opinion on the FBI that I do not share. So listen to it.

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Using potentially lethal force against Secret Service. Joining us now is Stewart Kaplan. Stewart Kaplan is a criminal defense attorney, but he's a former special agent with the FBI. He also has a program hosted on point with Stewart Kaplan, Stewart Kaplan and Chris Peter.

Piota, I'm sorry. And Stewart Kaplan joins right now. Stewart, thank you so much for joining the show.

My pleasure. Good afternoon, Charlie. So, Stewart, break this down for us. Your reaction to the now public documents of how the FBI handled the Mar-a-Lago raid.

So, Charlie, in its simplest and factual reality, and this is a reality check for your listeners. When the FBI is the lead law enforcement agency that is going to go out and execute a search warrant, an arrest warrant, make an unannounced visit, meaning something that's going to rise to the level where the FBI is going to go out and execute a search warrant. That's going to rise to the level where someone is going to be apprehended. It is required of all the men and women that are employed in the FBI as sworn law enforcement officers that they must prepare what is called an op plan or an operations plan. That op plan is usually prepared at least several days before the execution of the arrest warrant or the search warrant. That op plan will be disseminated to your first line supervisor.

He or she signs off on that. It then will be routed up to what is called an ASAC, better known as an assistant special agent in charge. If given some sensitivity or some high profile case, that op plan will then be routed even further up beyond an ASAC to a SAC or better known as a special agent in charge of that particular division.

Those op plans must be prepared. They had boilerplate language. They address the names of the subjects and or targets, the locations, the nearest trauma hospitals, whether or not there will be other agencies that are tagging along or assisting the FBI. It will identify whether or not there will be SWAT that will be assisting, whether or not there will be a breach necessary to gain entry, whether or not there needs to be local law enforcement notified at the time of the execution.

There's a whole host of fill in the blanks to include a narrative. I can tell you without hesitation and without reservation that if you were an agent and were to go out and execute a search warrant or an arrest warrant or something of the like without preparing an ops plan, you would be the subject of what is considered an OPR investigation. That's an Office of Professional Responsibility investigation where you would be subject to suspension.

I can tell you that what happened in Mar-a-Lago was routine, normal, nothing out in the ordinary. Now, I know that my colleague and my friend Dan Bongino, who I hold to the highest esteem, let me be clear. The Secret Service in connection with the execution of the search warrant was not the lead law enforcement agency conducting that investigation. That was solely under the purview and the jurisdiction of the FBI. And so the Secret Service would not have had any input. Now, if the FBI was assisting the Secret Service in a Secret Service investigation, then the FBI would show deference to however the Secret Service wants to carry on their investigative steps. But when the FBI is the lead law enforcement agency carrying out whatever it is, there will always be an op plan in place. So does the, I'm just asking, I mean, do you think we should trust the FBI?

So let me be, Charlie, you know, a lot of people ask me that. The men and women of the FBI, and that is 99.99% of the men and women of the FBI get up each and every day, are the most trustworthy human beings on this planet. They have sworn an oath. They do the job because they believe in due process. They believe in the rule of law.

They do the job because they believe in protecting our national security. Okay, so I hear all that. No, I got that, Stuart. So sorry to interrupt. But if that's the case, why did they raid a president's home?

Why did they say I'm not doing this? Like, where is that valor, like that courage? I'm curious. So, Charlie, you have to understand the reality. And I've been very critical of the FBI along the way. And I think that there have been missteps.

And let me just digress for a moment. When you bring up the execution, and I'm not sure if it was the arrest warrant or the search warrant that was conducted with Oliver Stone down in Parkland or Broward County, and they tipped off CNN. So the news media was there prior to the execution.

I find that deplorable. I find that reprehensible because that's the type of conduct that erodes the confidence and just as you are suggesting, the trust in the FBI. But I can tell you that the FBI extended numerous attempts to Trump's camp to try to get an understanding and control of the materials that they knew were being stored at Mar-a-Lago. Unfortunately, and I don't hold the former president responsible for this, I quite frankly think that he had bad counsel, bad legal advice, and they decided that it was in the president's best interest to perhaps create more of a stone wall instead of trying to cooperate fully with the FBI. And when that line finally was drawn in the sand, the FBI made a decision, whether right or wrong or just from the optics, that they were going to go in pursuant to a search warrant because they felt that the people on the president's side of that communication was no longer trustworthy to rely upon the cooperation that they believed was necessary in turning over all the documents. And that's where it starts.

And that's where it ended. So just to be clear, I want to be understand, if the FBI is full of all these courageous people, why do they keep on raiding homes of like grandmothers and like going into, you know, pro-life warriors, you know, full guns a blazing? Where are these courageous FBI agents that just say, I'm a conscientious objector, I refuse to do the Gestapo work of an illegitimate regime?

So, Charlie, that's where I will take exception as to making that type of statement. I can tell you firsthand that I've been on too many search warrants and too many arrest warrants where the mundane or the routine, unfortunately, can get the best of any agent or any law enforcement officer. There are many people that you would go and knock on their door, not ever suspecting that they will be capable of grabbing a knife or a weapon or some other means of some other instrumentality to hurt you. And I can tell you, why are they obeying orders to go after people that obviously are not threats to the country?

I'm talking about people that walked into the January 6 Capitol and walked out and they're raiding their living room. Like, where are the FBI agents saying, I'm not going to do that? Because I hear people talk about how wonderful the FBI is. Why doesn't the FBI agent rank and file to say, I'm not going to do this? Or is this just kind of like, oh, I'm just doing my job?

No. And so, Charlie, you put a great hypothesis on me, and I'm just going to answer it again because I'm all about facts and truth. I can tell you that the men and women that executed the search warrant in Mar-a-Lago were handpicked, were hand selected. This was not just a squad.

This was assembled selectively. And so to some extent, I agree with what your assertion is. And I can tell you that the men and women of the FBI that are present and former are at times disgusted by at least the optics that had been played out all too often. But again, the men and women, they're employees, they want to secure their jobs. You don't want to put yourself in a position where you become the target of being ostracized or alienated because you're speaking out. You answered the question.

We're out of time. They're afraid of losing their job. So they'll do the work of the brown shirts of the regime.

Totally get it. Thank you. They're not courageous.

They want their pension more than they want a country or to actually be able to do what's right. I in good faith would not be able to kick down a door of an 81-year-old that went and prayed inside of the Capitol and then say, oh, well, you know, they're just doing their job. You answered it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Got it. Thank you. They're doing the work that brown shirts would do. That's how you get Auschwitz.

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That is NobleGoldInvestments.com, NobleGoldInvestments.com. I want to get into the Atlantic article here. And it's very funny. And I want to be very clear. If you're going to say that the members of the FBI are these wonderful, courageous people, true courage is saying I'm going to turn my back on my pension, my salary, because I do not believe in thuggishly raiding 82-year-olds' homes and calling them like domestic terrorists. I think that would be real courage. Being real courage is being a whistleblower and saying I'm not going to be part of this. I'm not going to be part of an administrative state that targets political dissidents.

I'm not going to play ball there. And this whole idea that they're just doing their job and these are honorable professionals. Do you know how many times we have found the FBI has abused the FISA statute? Oh yeah, they're honorable professionals.

Or they're illegally spying. How many times that they have broken the law? And we have to just be told that these are honorable. I'm sure there are some honorable ones. The most honorable ones have come out as whistleblowers and have come out to Jim Jordan and are trying to actually keep the FBI to be a legitimate organization, not a secret police force designed by J. Edgar Hoover. And, of course, the DOJ sends these men and women in a dumb and stupid investigation. And you might say, well, Charlie, what do you expect them to do? To be a conscientious objector, as I say.

Say, you know what? Oh, wait, who are we raiding today? Oh, we're raiding Douglas Mackey. What is Douglas Mackey's crime?

Oh, he made a meme. Not going to do that. Or how about this one? Who are we raiding today? We're going to go raid James O'Keefe's apartment. I'm not going to do that. I'm just not going to do that. I'll stay at home. You're going to fire me? Okay, fine. I'll go work at Wendy's, but at least I'll have a conscience. Or I'm going to go volunteer at my church.

I'm not going to do that. Roger Stone's home, grandma's home, a pro-life advocate, one after the other. And I just, I want somebody to reconcile why we keep on saying that every single person in the FBI is wonderful.

I'm sure there are some wonderful. True courage is forgoing your salary and forgoing your pension and putting your country above your lifestyle. That is courage. It's hard. I totally get that.

You might say, well, Charlie, how am I going to pay the mortgage? I totally get that. I'm just, if you're going to use that description, they get the document here. Oh, who are we raiding today? Oh, we're going to go raid the home of a journalist, James O'Keefe. Like, what? We're supposed to act as if that's like standard operating procedure?

I'm not even going to get into the Mar-a-Lago raid home. I'm just sidestepping that whole thing. Anyway, okay. And, you know, someone just emailed us.

He said, Charlie, love the interview. I'm a lot more offended by a dozen different J-6 persons getting a SWAT team at 5am than I even by the Mar-a-Lago, to be honest. And look, I think that was I was trying to get at with the previous guest is that the Mar-a-Lago thing is fine.

It does obviously upset me. But the mass weaponization of coming full force, full military macho style, like repelling down the side of homes, because somebody went into the Capitol and prayed that we are entering territory here that is so dangerous, not to mention that, as I said, the FISA abuses and also the anarcho-tyranny, what the FBI is not doing right now. They're not going after these sleeper cells in the country, the disproportionate force against political dissident.

And I'm not even thinking about all the different ones off the top of my head, not to mention Peter Navarro, who's now rotting in a federal prison, Steve Bannon, who is facing federal prison time. Yes, this is all handled by law enforcement professionals. And I suppose the question is, when you're an FBI agent, do you swear an oath to the United States Constitution? Or do you swear an oath to the tradition of J. Edgar Hoover and the secret police force?

Which one are you loyal to? And I'm going to start believing the line that the FBI is full of wonderful people when I see mass conscientious objector resignations. That's when I'll believe it. And this whole thing, and he finally said it. He said it in the interview, Stewart did.

Again, I'm sure he's a sweet person. He said, they have a salary or they have a job to do. Got it. Thank you. That's what I need to hear.

At the end, that's it. I am worried that I'm going to lose my $75,000, $80,000 a year plus my pension. Again, that's a lot of money.

I'm not diminishing it. But I'm saying this country was built and this country was sustained by people who were willing to forego an easy lifestyle because they would not participate or be a co-sponsor in evil. They were willing to go say, I'm not, you know what, $80,000 a year, a nice pension waiting me, I'm willing to put that all at risk, all at jeopardy, because the country, the nation, the Constitution, my children matter more.

And when you go in to, like, Mark Houk's home in Kintersville, Pennsylvania, bearing weapons with his seven children, and you had 20 FBI agents raid and Stewart says, well, you never know if they might grow a knife, you know, grab a knife or grab a gun. I just say, why are you raiding that in the first place? You should say, I'm not doing this. I would not be able to live with myself. I would say, I would go work for In-N-Out Burger. They're paying 20 bucks an hour now.

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Will, welcome back to the program. Will, what is the latest out of New York? Give us all the Michael Cohen news. We haven't really hit that very hard this week.

What's going on there? Yeah, you know, I was in court on Monday, Charlie, and it was pretty incredible. On cross-examination, Cohen admitted to numerous felonies. I mean, to grand larceny from the Trump Organization, to financial structuring in violation of federal banking laws. I mean, the prosecution hasn't proven its case against President Trump, but there's definitely evidence of crimes being introduced in this trial, all really against Michael Cohen and some of the others. It was a stunning moment, and I hope the jury was listening, because it seriously calls into question.

Obviously, Cohen's credibility is his testimony to the contrary, and it was just a really wild, crazy day in court. So, Will, the defense rests, and so what does that mean for those of us that are not involved in legal details as much? What is the timeline here?

What are we looking at? So, after Robert Costello's testimony ended yesterday, our side rested. We're now hashing out the details of jury instructions with Judge Mershawn. We'll be back in court likely for closing arguments on Tuesday after Memorial Day, and then after closing arguments, the judge will instruct the jury, and then the jury gets to go back and decide what to do with this case. Based on the evidence introduced, I think any fair jury would speedily acquit President Trump. There's no evidence of a crime here. There's no evidence, really, that President Trump did anything wrong, much less anything illegal. So, we're certainly hopeful for an acquittal here, and we'll see what the jury does after closing arguments on Tuesday.

So, Will, I don't want to make any predictions here. I will say, though, and I know you have to be careful, I think this went pretty well. As far as the prosecution seemed to fumble, you guys did a wonderful job from a defense standpoint. And I mean, look, I still think that, you know, the jury is a New York jury, so you take that for what it will. But Stormy Daniels didn't go well for them.

Michael Cohen didn't go well for them. And can you also tell me how the judge prevented, was it Costello, from taking the stand? Can you help explain how can a judge prevent a witness if the defense wants it? I guess he did take the stand, but he was also grilling him. He just kept interrupting him.

Give us all the details surrounding that. Yeah, Alan Dershowitz, who was actually one of my law professors who was in court with us on Monday as well, wrote a really good article about this. Basically, in a typical case, if you have a witness like Michael Cohen, you can introduce other witnesses. The defense can introduce other witnesses to rebut their testimony. The judge was very strict about limiting the scope of what Robert Costello was allowed to testify to.

That's highly irregular. It certainly had the appearance of interfering with the defense's ability to make its case. Most of the key facts, though, still came into evidence. Costello rebutted important parts of Michael Cohen's story. He spoke to Michael Cohen's state of mind at the time that all of this was unraveling. Basically, that Cohen was manic, near suicidal, that Cohen had said he was willing to do anything to stay out of jail. So a lot of really important evidence still came in through Robert Costello. But Judge Mershawn issued a number of evidentiary rulings limiting the scope of what Costello could testify to that had just a lot of the lawyers in the room and a lot of legal commentators really scratching their head.

So I want to get into this here. This is a tweet yesterday from Julie Kelly. One of Jack Smith's inquisitors, Julie Edelstein, tried to pressure former Trump attorney Tim Palatore into disclosing privileged conversations with the president. This is unbelievable lawless thuggery.

Fill us in here, Will. Yeah, so this relates primarily to the Florida documents case. There have been a number of allegations there relating to the prosecution's attempt to pierce the attorney-client privilege. We've seen this with a number of former Trump attorneys. Palatore is the subject of these recent accusations.

There have been a number of others as well. It's really dangerous when you're in a place where the attorney-client privilege, which is at really the heart of a defendant's constitutional right to effective counsel, the attorney-client privilege dates back to English common law. This is a core feature of our legal system and a core protection for defendants that they be allowed to discuss legal matters with their attorneys without fear of that information coming out. It's clear that Jack Smith's team in a number of ways ran totally roughshod overprivileged, attempted to get at these privileged conversations between President Trump and his attorneys, really attempted to run roughshod over President Trump's core constitutional rights. Judge Cannon has been increasingly frustrated. You can see this in her orders. You can see this in just the way that she's handled that case down in Florida with the lawlessness exhibited by Jack Smith and his team of prosecutors. Whether it's on privilege issues, evidentiary custody issues, misrepresentations that Jack Smith and his team have repeatedly made to the court about the evidence in the case.

I mean, that case, which a lot of legal commentators said was the greatest risk to President Trump, I believe it's in danger of falling apart almost absolutely because of prosecutorial misconduct. I want to read this. This is an unbelievable dialogue here. Blake just put it in the chat.

Thank you, Blake. It says, Any information obtained from a client is part of, you know, legal advice or representation? Yes.

Question from the prosecution, the grand jury. Are you aware that a client can waive that? Answer.

I'm aware that a client can waive that. Question. If a former president is so cooperative, why hasn't he allowed you to share his conversations with the grand jury today? The answer. Are we really doing this? Next question. I asked you a question. Will, I mean, you've been in the legal world for a while. You're a former federal prosecutor. Have you ever seen anything like that?

No. The idea, you know, I'm a former federal prosecutor. The idea that you would grand jury your target or your defendant's attorney, that you would bring the attorney into grand jury, and then ask those sorts of questions about privilege and basically cast aspersions on the defendant based on a decision to not waive privilege. It's patently absurd. I've never heard of anything like that happening before in any case whatsoever, especially not in a case like this. It's totally lawless. It violates every norm of practice. It violates, I think, binding DOJ guidance on the way to treat attorneys during an investigation like this. It's just, it's absolutely absurd. And as more of these grand jury transcripts have come out, we've seen more and more evidence of deep prosecutorial misconduct on the part of Jack Smith and his team.

Yeah. And so the recourse is, I mean, how do we, this is what gets me a little upset here. How does one hold a prosecutor accountable when they do things that are foggishly illegal?

I mean, I'm talking more broadly and more macro here. What is the standard operating procedure for going after the government when the government breaks the law or at least flirts with breaking the law? Well, first, I think the judge can and she could dismiss this whole case. That's a sanction that's applied in severe cases of prosecutorial misconduct.

I think it's warranted in this case. So the whole case against President Trump in Florida could easily be dismissed based on prosecutorial misconduct here. There's very, very serious allegations relating to the way that Jay Brat approached Walt Nauta. That's President Trump's co-defendants lawyer. Nauta's lawyer is a guy named Stanley Woodward who alleged that Brat basically threatened his career, threatened his job prospects if he couldn't get Nauta to cooperate. I mean, these are very, very serious violations of the way that prosecutors are trained to bring cases, of the way the prosecutors have to bring cases. So the whole case could be dismissed. Now, if the case is dismissed, I think President Trump would be well within his rights to bring a civil action against Jack Smith and his team for malicious prosecution, for abuse of process, for any number of other counts. And I think we need to look at just how we got to this place where a special counsel never confirmed by the Senate, I mean, just a lawless special counsel who I believe was unconstitutionally appointed to begin with, felt entitled to run roughshod over the law in this desperate attempt to get President Trump and interfere in the 2024 election. Yeah, Will, this is a this is a structural issue, which is how does the citizenry actually be able to hold the thugs accountable?

And I just, I just don't, I don't know the answer to that. And it is sad because I wish that I wish our government was trustworthy. Please plug your run for Attorney General in Missouri. We're behind you 100%.

Tell us what's going on. Yeah, look, conservative grassroots all over the state are fired up. The campaign has been an incredible experience so far. We've driven about 42,000 miles at this point, just getting into every corner of the state, meeting with conservative groups, meeting with great conservative grassroots activists. I think we're going to take the state by storm this August. We're really excited for the road ahead. We're about 75 days out from our August 6th Election Day now. But more than anything, for me, the most rewarding aspect of this process has just been seeing how fired up and how tuned in conservatives across the state of Missouri are.

I think we're ready to take our state back and we're ready to take our country back. I have endorsed Will. I've known Will for a long time. He's a true believer.

He would be an excellent Attorney General for the state of Missouri. Will, keep it up. Thanks so much. Appreciate you, Charlie.

Have a good one. And honestly, he'd be a great Attorney General of the United States one day. He's smart. He loves the country.

He's terrific. All right, I've got to get into this Atlantic story here. And this is what the Atlantic spends time on, funded by Laureen Powell Jobs. I remember when the Atlantic used to have really interesting stories. I legitimately used to love reading the Atlantic. Well, I enjoyed reading it this morning.

TheAtlantic.com. Why is Charlie Kirk selling me food rations? By Ali Breland. Now, it's Ali.

I'm sorry. It's Ali. It's a man.

Ali Breland. He's a former reporter at Mother Jones. Now, this story here is all about the Charlie Kirk show. The Atlantic starts, Charlie Kirk is worked up. Quote, the world is in flames.

And Vitonomics is a complete and total disaster, the conservative influencer said during the episode of his podcast. But it can't and won't ruin my day. Why?

Because I have a, start my day with a hot America first cup of blackout coffee. Very true, by the way. Listen to Kirk's show, which is among the most popular podcasts on the right. That is true, by the way. Praise God. Glory be to God. Our podcast is doing very well. And thank you, guys, if you want to subscribe to the podcast. It can be very unsettling, even if you are conservative. In the past year, the founder of Turning Point USA has uploaded episodes of titles such as The Great Replacement is in Theory. It's reality.

The doctor is plotting to mutilate your kids. He's also conducted friendly interviews with a blogger, Steve Saylor. Oh, yeah, you're not allowed to say that.

Talk to him. The article continues by going on and talking about how effective this program is. And he doesn't quite understand why our advertisers agree with us. You see, this is, let me tell you what the story started as. They're constantly trying to prevent shows like ours from being successful. And so they say, well, how on earth is his show able to even exist? We must go after his advertisers. We must go after his revenue source.

So he probably did some research and he realized that what we have been able to do here on the landscape of this information war, praise God and glory be to God, thanks to the great partners at Salem Radio Network and all of our partners, is that we have found what they call advertisers that share our views. Patriot Mobile. You guys can switch to at patriotmobile.com slash Charlie. We call them partners here. He calls them advertisers on the Atlantic and they are our partner.

So you can go to Patriot Mobile. You can get gold from noblegoldinvestments.com promo code Charlie. And they're shocked to learn that our partners actually listen to the show. If you guys need a new mortgage, go to andrewandtodd.com. That's where I do all of my stuff from. And they listen to the show.

If you need a wellness kit, you can go to twc.health slash cj. The point being in the Atlantic can't quite understand is how on earth are all these advertisers supporting the Charlie Kirk show and everything that's happening here. Well, first of all, we get real views.

Praise God, we have a real audience and you guys keep on rewarding us. However, I want to end on this because I know that many of you guys hear when we mention these partners. We mentioned Hillsdale College. We mentioned Patriot Mobile. We mentioned Noble Gold Investments. We mentioned Relief Factor.

We mentioned Rough Greens. When you support those partners, you are supporting our show. And the Atlantic has figured that out. The Atlantic has figured out that the Patriot economy is ascendant.

When you go to public square, it helps a rising tide for all of these different—a rising tide helps lift all boats. He says, why is Charlie Kirk selling me food rations? By the way, you can go to mypatriotsupply.com.

That's mypatriotsupply.com. They are puzzled that our show is able to be growing, expanding, and prospering. And by the way, these vermin, they've succeeded in scaring off all of like the Chevrolet or Ford from all conservative shows.

But honestly, we like and we appreciate all of our partners because our partners see the world the way we do. And the Atlantic did get one piece right. They did get one thing correctly.

They got one thing right, which is among one of the most popular podcasts on the right, ranking among top 10 on Apple and Spotify. That is true, despite their cancellation efforts, their smearing, everything they've tried to do to this show. Take us off the air. We are growing. And praise God for that. We don't take credit for that. That is a blessing from above. And you are starting to get wise to all of their tactics. You are pursuing the truth. And I think that is a beautiful thing.