Should You Date a Pro-Abortion Person?

Hey everybody. Another part of the conversation I had in Santa Barbara, California for the Whatever Podcast. Just so you guys know, this is an unusual forum. It is usually, let's say, frequented by people that are in the business of the production of pornography, and this was no exception. There were a couple young women there that are currently in the porn industry and some other people that are not, but they do similar type of work.

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Go to noblegoldinvestments.com. Would you date somebody who's pro-life? Starting with you. I know it's hot seat, but. Oh, man.

Why do I always got to go first? Yes, yes, I would. Yes, because you can be pro-life, and still pro-choice. And as long as they're pro-life and not anti-choice, that's to me the key distinction.

Wait, I'm a little confused. There are plenty of Democrats. If you poll Democrats, for example, a lot of Catholic Democrats. Joe Biden, our own president personally, is pro-life.

So he would not feel comfortable probably having a wife that submitted herself to a procured abortion, but is okay with it being legal. And I think that's the important distinction, not whether or not they personally are. I can agree with that. Yeah, I think generally. I don't know, it depends. If they're super pro-life to the point where it's like, oh, the mother's health is at risk and you still shouldn't abort, then I'm like, whoa, slow down there, buddy.

I don't know how I feel about that. But without those extremes, yeah. Yeah, I agree about the extremes. If they are too extreme, then maybe no. But I would still date someone who's pro-life if they weren't too extreme.

I'm kind of the same. I don't think it becomes a problem unless I get pregnant unexpectedly, and then I don't want the child. But I'm sure if it was a good relationship anyways and I got pregnant, I would want the child anyways, too, even though I am pro-choice. I don't think it gives that much of a conflict, obviously, depending on the circumstance. Molly? I agree.

You can be pro-choice and pro-life at the same time, and that is really the only way that I would be able to be in a relationship, because I'm pro-choice, but I can also respect that the person that I love is not. Okay. Charlie, any thoughts here? Yeah, I'm just curious. When would you guys say human life begins? That's like a philosophical question for the ages. When there's a heartbeat. When there's a heartbeat. Or no, I guess in the uterus. See, now we have three different answers. I will presume a group of women, because you all self-described as women.

I'm kidding. When does life begin? Heartbeat.

I would still say at birth, even though I know that your cells can be forming a brain and stuff in the uterus. But yeah, I think you're not fully a human until you're born. Okay.

And you said heartbeat, right? Okay. It's very difficult to answer.

I think mostly consciousness and personhood is really what people are seeking to identify. And I believe, I'm sure you have a note, how long is like, how many weeks is a full term of pregnancy? Oh, it's a good question.

I know very well. It's about 38, 39 weeks. 40 is like the furthest of gestation. So as far as I know, like around 30 weeks is when you see like, typically like most development of the fetus has taken place.

So I would say like around there. But yeah, no, I mean, so heartbeat is right around six weeks, brainwaves or even before that. And you could do an ultrasound at right around, you could start to ultrasounds at eight weeks and you can see the full, full being right around 12 weeks and right around 25, 26 weeks are now the earliest cases we have of babies that are able to survive outside of the womb.

Does anyone have any other answers on that? I mean, I'm not like educated scientifically enough about the biology of all of it, but I agree. I think that life is a very subjective term. You know, you could say, when does the infant's body in the womb start functioning? Or you could say, when do they start perceiving their consciousness?

And for me, it's when they start perceiving their consciousness, but truly, I have no idea when that is. Do you think it's, do you think it would be important to, let me ask you this, if you knew for certain the baby, would you agree it's a baby? Is that a good term to use? If it's in a womb, is that a baby? I think most people would say fetus.

Okay. So what does fetus mean in Latin? I think a fetus is a growing child. It's a developing child.

You're right, Molly, you know it. It means a little human. Using fetus is nothing more than a cope for what you know it is. It's a baby, right? Obviously not if we're here debating it. I don't think it's as subtle as you think it is. You don't have to use the word fetus.

It just makes people feel better. It's obviously a baby. Obviously you wouldn't take like, you know, a fetus that just has like a heart and like their brain isn't fully formed and be like, that's the same as like a one-month-old. Like we obviously see differences between development from then and there. But then how about 30 weeks? That's where it becomes a lot more contentious. But the point being is that we don't look at a fetus from its beginning stages and be like, yeah, that's the same thing as my like three-month-old cousin.

Well, hold on, that's a nine-month-old is not the same thing as a one-month-old. Okay. So you can go through the progression of development continues.

The question is, when does it start? Yeah, that's a million dollar question. I agree with that. Do you think conception?

Of course. That's the only answer. Most women, I don't believe even know that they're pregnant before six weeks.

So like around like these, the heartbeat. The knowledge of your pregnancy doesn't mean that you're not pregnant. No, no, no.

That's not what I'm saying. But I'm saying like practicality wise, there are many instances of women who act, who have miscarriages without even ever knowing because it might just present as like a very heavy cycle that month. That's fine, but it doesn't make it any less of life. Sure.

Go ahead, Molly. Do you mourn that miscarriage in the same way? You mourn like an abortion, like a conscious choice. No, it's not the same way. No, but it's still a tragedy of miscarriage is a tragedy.

So do you even if she doesn't know about it? But an abortion is an act of human will. A miscarriage most times is not. Now sometimes it can be a miscarriage because you drank alcohol and you didn't know you're pregnant, or you might have taken a drug that had side effects. But yes, a miscarriage is a tragedy.

I have a question. So do you care about the children once they're born? I mean, I care a lot about them.

So if say a woman got R-worded or something, or even if she just got pregnant and- Grid one motorsports donated $200. Life is not subjective, and we know this because you were speaking of killing it. Why is it so easy for you ladies to kill kids?

If your comfort and life style more important than the life you paid for? Anyway, my question was, what was I saying? Oh, you were saying if somebody was someone forced sex upon themselves, it's the word you're- Or even like, not even just that, but say like, if the mother like was homeless or something, say like she didn't have a good life. Do you still think that child deserves to be brought into the world just to suffer? Well, so it's not a guarantee of suffering, number one.

One sec, one sec, one sec. The answer is yes, the life should be brought into the world. There are twice as many people on the adoption waiting list. There's so many people. Let me ask you guys, and I don't, I'm just curious, how many abortions do you think there are a year in America? Tens of thousands, I assume.

Any other guesses? What if I told you there was over a million abortions every year? That wouldn't surprise me at all. But you went from tens of thousands to a million. I mean, there's billions of people on the- No, no, no. Yeah, there's 340 million in America, that's right. No, but do you think- As far as like reported ones, because even just reporting data is going to be incomplete because- That doesn't count mythopressinone, which is the chemical abortion that people have at home.

It doesn't count plan B, right? And even if like abortion were illegal, for example, we stopped gathering data on like who procures abortions, there would be so many. There's so many now, even with states where it's still legal.

Texas, it's gone down dramatically. So hundreds of thousands- No, they're still happening. It's just- Well, no, they're happening. Not being accounted for. But 90% abortion- When they're just doing it to themselves. Right, it's a 90% abortion reduction rate in Texas.

I don't want to dwell on that too much though. I'm just, so there's a million abortions every single year. And there's twice as many people on the adopt- There's 2 million people actively on the adoption waiting list. So there's really no such thing currently, there could be, but currently, of an unwanted child. So there's 2 million people wanting to adopt. And there's a million people that have abortions every single year. So there's twice as many people that want to get a child. Now, there's a longer conversation about making it less bureaucratic without allowing bad people to adopt kids for bad reasons. I'm perfectly open for that conversation. But to answer your question, I don't love the premise.

It's a really good question because a lot of people have it. I don't necessarily believe being born in poverty is a death sentence or is a reason to terminate- Call an abortion on. No, no, no. But abortion is a death sentence. So I don't think poverty should give you a death sentence. Would you say abortion is murder? Oh, of course, 100%.

Do you think that people who procure abortions, women specifically, a woman who procures an abortion should go to jail for getting one? Absolutely. They're the moral equivalent of Auschwitz. Really?

Yes. Millions of women are basically the same as Nazi death camp cards? The women are victims. They're lied to. 90% of women do not see an ultrasound before they have an abortion.

They have no idea what's happened to them. They're the victims here. It is the abortionists that are doing this. But let me ask you, and I mean this, have you guys ever seen an abortion on a video?

Wait, no, I'm sorry. If women are the victims here, why should they be jailed? Well, I don't believe they should be jailed. You just said they should be... How is it that you can believe that abortion is murder, but a murderer shouldn't go to jail?

I didn't say that. The doctors, the abortionists, the people that call themselves doctors, the people that put women under general anesthesia and go into... But the women... Women do...

They ask for it. They are doctors. They're medical... Are you going to discount the accountability of the women in that position? My current perspective is because the women are not given what is called informed consent, that the women should not be penalized.

They shouldn't be penalized. In fact, they should be given grace from a system that has lied to them and has misled them. They are not given the full picture of exactly what's happening to them. Informed consent has not happened.

So these women are the victims. The abortionists, one second, the abortionists are the ones that know exactly what's happening. And if you haven't seen a video of an abortion, I'm not going to say anything too graphic.

It is one of the hardest things to watch. The baby fights. The baby struggles. The baby dodges.

The baby avoids. They break the neck of the baby. They euthanize it to the spring. It's not a joke. And then they tear it limb from limb through there. If you're trying to tell me that's, you know... If you're talking about... Yeah, like they're called dilation and extraction abortions.

No, no, no, no, no. Hold on a second. A baby has a backbone at six weeks and a spine. It has a complete figure. It's small. It's like probably a small...

The size of like a grape. Yeah. Yes. But by eight weeks or 12 weeks, and you're talking about... But the vast majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester. Yeah, that's right.

And so when you just... The type of abortion that you described is literally like minority at the time. And those are wanted pregnancies because usually those women want those pregnancies. They weren't able to carry them to term. They don't know they're pregnant until they're six weeks. To your point.

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Buyoptimizers.com slash Kirk. No infant should be terminated because of health risk to the infant. OK, that's insane. It's like you're going to kill the baby because the baby has health risks. Not just health risks. These are deformed, like, these are medical... Hold on. Down syndrome. Should we abort Down syndrome kids? No.

Iceland has. They said if you have Down syndrome, you're done. So that's not a new phenomenon. They have gotten rid of Down syndrome.

If you have a DNA test of Down syndrome, they abort the kid. I think that's cruel and unusual. That is. OK, we agree.

Good. I think there are frivolous reasons to procure abortions, but I don't believe that just because there are frivolous reasons to get them, that means it should be outlawed. But should murder be outlawed? Yeah, but like you were saying, even though you believe that those women have a hand in committing the murder and infanticide, basically, of their own children, they shouldn't go to jail.

They have not been given informed consent. Do you have that opinion with people who are addicted to drugs? Do you think only drug dealers should go to jail, but not people who actually try to buy drugs and consume them? It depends what drug it is.

It depends the category, the class, the repetition. Is there a single drug where you would say that somebody who is buying and consuming drugs that they are addicted to should not be going to jail, but only their drug dealer should be going to jail? I mean, I think fentanyl and heroin potentially, but it's a completely separate issue, because a lot of people know the informed consent of heroin and fentanyl.

It's not like we have PSAs, we have billboards. Stop using fentanyl. Stop doing fentanyl. How many times have you heard that? How often have we ever had an honest conversation with women in this country saying that having an abortion increases the chances for depression, anxiety, medication dependence? You said it was having a kid.

Well, hold on. Having children carries all of those same risks. You think having children... No, don't mischaracterize me. No, that's not true at all. I'm not going to say that having a child necessarily gives you depression.

Women have children. That's what she said. It can come with it. Like postpartum depression, for example, is extremely common among young men. Is it temporary and short-lived? And obviously... Not always. Where some people last years. That's temporary and short-lived. That's not permanent. You think years of living with postpartum depression can simply constitute a temporary medical issue?

Let's theoretically even grant... So you're saying because of potential postpartum depression or financial burdens, the moral answer is allow women to go in... No, that was never my argument. This had nothing to do with morality.

This was a completely separate question. I'm only saying that I feel like you're trivializing and downplaying how serious conditions like postpartum depression can be when you want to write it off as a temporary medical issue when it can be a years-long battle. Look, having children is a serious choice. So what percentage of abortions, according to the Guttmacher Institute, are not rape, not incest, and not life of the mother? What percentage would you say? Probably the vast majority. Ninety-seven percent. So is abortion now birth control, yes or no?

No, I don't think so. I think that's situational to each and every person. Molly, do you think that birth control... It could be called birth control in certain situations. Because you were talking about over a million abortions, but there's tens of millions of women that are on birth control, that have IUDs, that take birth control pills.

So obviously, that's not the only reason why. But it's a form of birth control, is it not? It's a form of birth control, sure, but you acknowledge that it's not the predominant form of birth control. Well, no, I didn't say that. No, I said it's birth control. Yeah, but we're not disagreeing with the category.

I'm talking about the prevalence of it. If it's birth control, then why would we allow it to continue if it's not... If you put the rape, incest, life of the mother with weakened debate... I didn't.

But no, I'm going to put that aside for a second. Then why should we allow a horrific procedure to continue that has such heavy and dire consequences and results in a child not being able to live outside of the womb? Because that's the most choice.

You're loading it so much by saying a horrific procedure. Most women who procure abortions actually report being happy long term because they made the choice, because there's many different reasons why women get abortions. Some women aren't in a financial position to have a child at that time and actually decide to have children later. How'd they get pregnant?

What do you mean? They had sex, unprotected, or an accident. So they want the orgasm without the responsibility. Do you think the majority of women are having orgasms and sex? Are you serious? Have you seen the studies on orgasm gaps between men and women? I'll be honest. So they want all the pleasure.

They want all... But you want all the loose lifestyle, but none of the responsibilities. Now you're framing it like the punishment for having... Like orgasm should be punished. No, no, no. The way that you're framing it.

No, it's not a punishment. You want the loosey-goosey parts of sex, like the orgasm, but you don't want the responsibility of a child. It's like, yeah, some people want to be able to have sex. Okay, no, you articulate it perfectly.

I'm going to be able to have sex how I want. And if I have to go put a dagger through... Have someone put a dagger through a child for me, then so be it. Sure, I guess. No, that you're being morally clear. And basically it is. It's my body.

I can do whatever I want with it. Even though... Let me ask you a question. Even though, like I said, most women don't regret their abortions at all. Like the vast majority of women say report happiness and being okay with their decision.

I'm sure you think that they're lying or they're indoctrinated or possibly delusional. But if it's not your DNA, how is it your choice? If it's not your DNA, why is it your choice? It is because your child has to carry the child's DNA. And then it forms into... Yeah, it has its own unique DNA that's not yours. Here, it's part of your DNA.

It's half. Oh, so should the man then be able to have fetal power over abortion? Well, the point is the man isn't the one incubating child. So I thought it's... Well, if it's about DNA. If I never made the DNA argument, you did.

The argument that I was going to make was... Or I was going to ask you the question. Do you think another person has a right to your life and your body? Does another person have a right to... Well, they might... Technically, because abortion was legal when I was in utero, someone did have a right to my life and body. Oh, hey. And my mom chose life, praise God.

So did all your moms. Yeah. I don't actually want an abortion. Are you glad that she didn't have an abortion? No. So you would rather be dead? I don't know.

I mean, life can be difficult. She didn't exist. You would not be able to even know what you never materialized. A couple of people wanted to come in really quick. It looks like you wanted to come in. I'd like to give you an opportunity to speak.

Then I think you had more pixie than Molly. Go ahead. Go ahead.

It was just back... It's backtrack just on what he was saying on not wanting to have the responsibility. I think that's really... I don't really think that makes sense because I don't think sex is just for reproduction.

It's just like asking you every time... I'm not trying to bring in your wife, but every time you have sex with your wife, it's purely for reproduction. I feel like that is very inaccurate. So, I mean, it's hard to expect everyone who isn't in a marriage to just not have sex just because they don't want to get pregnant or just because they don't want to have that responsibility. Wait, did you even make the argument that sex is purely for... No, I didn't.

I don't think you did. Angel's making a good point, and I want to give her credit for this, which she's saying. And it could be misunderstood that I was saying sex is strictly for reproduction. What I was saying is that everything in life has consequences and choices, right? And at times, the mainstream predominant narrative is that sex comes with almost no downsides, and we're going to give you either the technology, the procedure, or whatever, to try to limit those downsides. But the difference is that when my wife and I have sex, if she results to be pregnant, what she did is that we live with that consequence, which happens to be a positive consequence, right, a huge blessing. Now, I understand what I'm saying is very, very radical and very unpopular, but the ideal should be far less people having premarital sex and trying to have sex within marital guidelines, or at the very least, monogamous guidelines, okay?

So that if there was to be a pregnancy, that that baby could be loved and cared for and brought into this world. I understand it's a hard ideal to even grasp and comprehend in a world where everything is very sex-positive, and sex-abundant, but it's an ideal that I defend nonetheless. I mean, I don't think there's anything that's in contradiction with being sex-positive, but also wanting to help prevent unwanted pregnancies. I would not, I would just say to those women and those people having sex that you should be using birth control and family planning methods to make sure that you don't have any unexpected pregnancies that you don't want to have to skip the abortion part altogether. I don't think anybody loves their abortion.

I only said that people just don't regret them. Are you guys familiar with what's happening with the chemical abortion craze that's going on right now? The pill? No, not the pill. That's different. I'm talking about where they're mailing chemical abortion packets, where women are bleeding out and emergency room visits are up nearly 300%. No, you guys should look into it. It's a very serious thing.

But why is that? Because abortion, I'd say it's because women don't have access to safe abortion, so they start resorting to these sorts of methods that weigh anything here. There's no such thing as a safe abortion. There were millions of women that got an abortion, but you're going to say that none of them were, all of them died after? All the babies did. But did the women? Is it unsafe for a woman to procure an abortion?

But it doesn't, hold on. Answer that question. Is it unsafe for a woman to procure an abortion? Every single abortion has a victim necessarily, and many, many times has a woman full of regret that we are now seeing, and I'm not going to make up numbers out of nowhere, but there is a growing community of abortion regret, including people that are speaking out and they're saying, I wish I wouldn't have, and it resulted in either difficulty to have children in the future or mental trauma. But why do you care about their life?

That's a good question. Or what about the moms, like our mother, who I wish I actually had had an abortion because that wasn't the life path that I wanted to go down, but it was one that I chose to make. Do you care about those?

I care about all people, so why do I care? But do you care about that specific opinion? Somebody who regrets not getting an abortion? Regrets not, no, I don't regret that mothers wanted to murder their kid. But do you care about the opinions of moms who actually say, I have a child, but I'm not happy with having a family, I actually wish I had gotten an abortion. Do you think that that... Why don't they just kill their kid then? I don't think that it necessarily follows that if you regret not getting an abortion, that you're going to commit murder. But it's the same thing, yeah, just put your kid up for adoption. If you regret it so bad, just give it... I don't think most people at that point, they're not going to put their kid up for adoption. Why not?

You regret it. No, no, no, I'm not saying anything stopping them. I'm saying most people are not going to do that. But if you ask them, like, would you have rather had an abortion or a family? Some of them might say, yeah, actually having a family and raising a child is very hard to actually wish I had an abortion. I don't doubt that that opinion might be held.

Not everybody is fit to be a parent. Hey, this is Charlie Kirk. And I know a lot of you have been suffering under the Biden economy.

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andrewandtodd.com. Let me just answer your question really quick. Why do I care? If you cannot get the life question right, then you get every other question wrong.

When does life begin? And I care about the innocent. I don't like bullies.

I don't like evil. And I believe it is an act of evil to destroy those that can't defend themselves, including the one million babies in New York. Are you pro-contraception? Are you pro-women safety?

Personally, or I'm agnostic on the question politically, meaning it's legal, so be it. But I wouldn't consider it to be a good lifestyle choice, including most specifically hormonal birth control. Now, mind you, I'm over my skis on this being a man, but I will yield to the growing community of women on both sides of the political aisle that are ditching their hormonal birth control because they say, I don't like the way it makes me feel. Or they want an IUD, which is a non-hormonal birth control. One second, but there is a growing body of literature by Dr. Daniel Amen and many other people that show that the pill increases anxiety and depression and suicidal, I'm sorry, certain types of ideation.

So again, I am not going to act like an expert on that, but that's a legit community online of people that are ditching hormonal birth control. I think the way that you're phrasing things of like, oh no, murdering the babies is quite interesting because I don't think in any other example where we have a person and their life is somehow connected to someone else, they decide, hey, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to give my kidney to this person. I don't want to continue this blood transfusion.

I don't want to continue this process. We wouldn't go and point to them and be like, you're a murderer. So I just think that there is a distinction to be made here when you're saying, oh no, they're murdering babies by just deciding that, hey, actually, I don't want this fetus to continue using my lungs, my blood, my organs to continue developing. Would you call somebody who doesn't want to give a blood transfusion or give a kidney or something like that? No, that's a good question. That's actually a good faith question. So if I had the specific type of blood type, okay, and in a hypothetical desert island, there happened to be a medical facility and somebody right there needed a blood transfusion and I said, no, I would be complicit in their death. Yes. I'm saying that that is the extrapolation of the hypothetical.

So if, what is it? Complicit to the point that you should be punished if you refuse to render aid to that person? Let me finish. Okay. So if the government decided, hey, you know what, like, let's say Joe Biden is put in the hospital and you're the only person for whatever reason in the world that can like give him a kidney and you have to basically give him like constant transfusions of blood for like the next year would be a murderer if you decided not to do that. Well, first I would do it even though I can't stand Joe Biden. Yeah, just for the record.

And if it was only for nine months, yeah, I'd do it. And if you didn't do it, do you think you should be punished with jail time or worse? It depends the type of informed consent that goes alongside of it, which goes back to why I believe women are lied to and women are victims in the abortion process. And yes, there are exceptions where women really know what's happening, very, very rare. However, I don't think the law should go towards women. I think they are, first of all, I just think that there should be grace and forgiveness because a lot of women go to abortions in crisis. They feel overwhelmed.

They are, they feel as if the world is against them. The abortionists, let me be very clear, the people that call themselves medical doctors that know better, that actually do the very damaging graphic removal of the baby, those are the people that I think should be focused when it comes to law. To your point, though, if for nine months I would have to live a tougher life for another human being to live, I would do that.

Wait, but it's not just, wait, I just, I want to be clear. Would, like what Erin was saying earlier, so do you think the government should be able to punish you for not doing that? Should you be able to go to jail or should the government be able to send you to jail because you didn't want to give blood transfusions to Joe Biden for nine months?

Should the government have that ability? It depends if I knew the totality, if there really were no other options. If I said to, if all of a sudden in this theoretical strand of desert island, in this abstract thing, and I had all the informed consent and Joe Biden was dying and he said, help me out, bro. I need nine months of your blood. And I said, no, I would be at the very least third degree murder. Do you think that in that, in that stranded? Because all of a sudden if I let him go and I say, you know, no, I'm not going to give you my blood.

I'm not going to give you my stuff. I personally wouldn't be able to live with myself if I have something that I don't need. Maybe you guys agree or disagree. If I had something that won't, and this is my own personal, you guys could disagree, but if I have something that, that will be, make my life more difficult for nine months, to use the analogy, right? But it meant another life could continue.

I would sign up in a second. Do you think there has ever been a woman who has procured an abortion that had totally informed consent and still went through with the decision? Of course, yes.

Okay. Do you think that that woman who has informed consent? That's way too hypothetical. The answer is no, because how could you find them?

How could you investigate them? Because it happens every single day. There's actually a case right now in Texas of a woman who is actually trying to go, what you're trying to do, to get an abortion. And Texas has said that when she returns, they want to put her in jail.

Yes. So I don't believe in that, number one. And I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to paint me on the extreme of punishing women for abortions. And I'm going to remain holding fast that I think women are the victims in the abortion industry. They get lied to by Planned Parenthood. They get lied by the abortionists.

If I was in your chair, I'd be doing the exact same thing. But you deny that there's any women that have informed consent in this decision. You believe that the vast majority of people that get abortions are deluded into getting them. I said, of course there are, nor should the law or the policy be focused towards women. And the vast majority, 90, 95%, we know this from studies by pro-life groups, and we know this by studies not even just by pro-life groups, by Planned Parenthood. That's what I say by biased groups.

Well, hold on a second. Do they administer an ultrasound before an abortion? Yes or no? The answer is no. In some states they do because it's mandated by those state laws.

Yeah. Well, not before, those states have completely eliminated abortion now after the fall of Roe. There's no abortion? Or is it that those abortions are just happening in unsafe ways because women can't go to doctors to get them? Do you really think that states, they're doing abortion tourism?

Many of them. They're coming to states like this. But let's take California, for example. Let's get less abstract. Where we're here right now, if one of you want to get an abortion down the street, they will not give you an ultrasound before.

And just so you know what an ultrasound is, it's a three-dimensional interactive image of the baby fetus, whatever you want to call it, in the womb before termination. They will not show that. And so to answer your question, first of all, I think it would be so unrealistic. And I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to play into a narrative that really doesn't exist too much. You could use the Texas example that Republicans want to punish women for having abortions. Hold on a second. I don't like that argument.

I don't. Because from 12 years old, from the first sexual education young girls have in this country is they look at abortion as normal, as fine, and so they've been indoctrinated. That's why I continue to believe that they are victims of a bigger scheme. They're victims of a bigger scheme, and they should not be punished or held accountable.

Instead, you go after the industry itself that knows better. There is no comprehensive sex ed in this country. I grew up in Texas, and the sex education that I was given to the extent that I was was abstinence only.

So them saying, don't have sex, basically. And another thing, I think it was something else that you said earlier, which is that, oh, well, they've reduced abortions because they've made it illegal. But you know that just because something is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen anymore. Murder is illegal when murder happens. But birth rates are up.

So that's how we know it's working. Were you going off of birth rates or were you going off the fact that there is your reported abortions because doctors refuse to perform them because they don't want to go to jail? I guarantee you there are back alley abortions happening.

Far less than used to happen when the clinics were open. Should those women have to get back alley abortions? Well, they shouldn't get abortions at all. But they're going to.

It's just a matter of whether it's going to be safe or not. OK. Again, that's the murder example. There's still a lot of murders, and I'm glad murder is illegal on the books. It's also the R word example. It's also those.

So I could apply it equally. Of course, there will always be people that break the law, and there will always be people that produce the most graphic, horrific content illegally online. That doesn't mean the law should not exist. The law needs to be a reflection of morality, and most importantly, the fundamental principle, the defense of the innocent. How about liberty?

Shouldn't it be within people's purview to engage in family planning or make those decisions for themselves? What is liberty? Liberty is a concept that has been hotly debated by many political theorists, scientists, philosophers. But liberty is one having the autonomy and self-determination to be able to make as many free and fair choices in their life and society as possible. Fair. And so if liberty hurts somebody else, is it still liberty?

No, because now you're infringing upon other people's liberty. So it comes in contact with other people's rights all the time. Right. So we have clarity but not agreement. I view abortion by being a violation of the liberty principle because there's a victim. You don't view it that way. So we have reasonable disagreement. Fundamental disagreement, yes. Yes, we have reasonable disagreement, but there's obviously a victim, right? There's a baby that needs to be scraped aside, cast and put into a trash can. That is a victim. Therefore, it's the violation of the liberty principle that you articulated.

Brian, I want to ask you a question. Do you think that it's consistent in Charlie Kirk's... Do you think it's consistent in Charlie's philosophy to say that a woman procuring an abortion, which is akin to murder, should not have to go to jail even though she's effectively murdering her own child or future child? Well, truthfully, I'm not really well versed on this topic.

From what you've heard so far, do you think that if somebody conflates abortion with murder... I'm not the politics guy. I'm the dating guy.

But you know, it came up. So, sorry, repeat the question. Just do you think it's consistent in someone's philosophy to say simultaneously that abortion is murder, but that the person who actually asks for that murder effectively should not have to go to jail? Do you think that's consistent or do you think that doesn't make sense? I'm not even following.

Sorry, I've got... Think about it. If somebody conceives of abortion as murder, do you think that if they engage in getting an abortion, aka murder, they should be excluded from going to jail because they're just a victim? Do you think that's consistent?

I don't... Honestly, you're not representing my argument. That's my answer. There's an important wrinkle that you're missing, which is that the woman, in my view, in any objective analysis, does not get the full picture of what's being done to her, the full picture of the being inside of her.

So that's a very important element you're missing here, right? I was saying that even if in the cases that they do and they choose to get an abortion, should they go to jail? And you wouldn't engage with the hypothetical.

I want to see if Ryan... So let me be honest. If they did engage in that and all that, there should be a national forgiveness for those women. And that's what I would say. And in those very rare cases, because what we're talking about is improbable, it would be, first of all, insanely unpopular. I'm very aware of that.

But I offer grace and forgiveness to women that have had abortion, not to the people that have conducted them. This is Dennis Prager. I am excited to announce the all-new Pragertopia Plus. You can listen to my show whenever it's convenient for you, all commercial-free and all on demand. Now with Prager Plus, search topics, guests, and segments all the way back to 2010. And now a truly exciting new benefit, my monthly online video get-together for Pragertopia Plus members only. This is where for an hour each month, Pragertopia Plus members get an exclusive chance to ask me anything. That's right, anything.

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Go to Pragertopia.com or click the banner at DennisPrager.com. What about parental responsibility? Maybe they could be financially ready, but they just don't want the increased burden, I guess, to be a parent. Is that also a valid reason? I don't think the government has a right to basically dictate your bodily autonomy. That's where I draw the line, even if the other being is dependent on it.

So I have a question for you. What do you say to a man who is not financially ready or who is not perhaps not ready for the parental responsibility? What do you tell him? Should he have not had sex? Is that what you tell a man?

No, no. I think they should have been more careful, but I wouldn't say overall that they're responsible for engaging in sex. Accidents happen. No, but what is the outcome for a man who is not financially ready or does not want the parental responsibility? Paper abortions.

They call these paper abortions. Men's rights advocates prefer, I believe that the term is legal paternal surrender. Legal paternal surrender is the solution to this, where men can surrender their rights and any claims to parenthood of that child. And they wouldn't have to pay child support. Right. Yeah, exactly.

I think that is the imperfect solution, but it's the closest thing that you could get because you would never have the say over whether or not somebody carries a pregnancy to term. Somebody else. Okay. Pixie, any thoughts on that?

I guess I just like I'm in similar alignment. I think, again, I think there's a legal question of abortion and there's like a moral question as well, as well as when it comes to like giving birth. And that's why I think like even morally, even though I might not personally have an abortion or whatever, I just don't think the government has a right to tell you.

If you can try to actually answer the question. So what do you tell, because in all 50 states in the United, in the US, whether there's abortion rights or not in that state. In all 50 states, if the woman chooses to proceed with the pregnancy and has the child, you know, there's certainly going to be some either financial or parental responsibilities that men cannot so easily do away with. Do you think that it's- I understand what you're saying. What do you tell a man, though, who's like, I don't want to have to pay child support.

I don't want to have to be parentally responsible for the child. What do you say to a man in that situation? Men don't have a legal right to do that, that doesn't necessarily- Men don't have a legal right to do that in any state. But it's really interesting how people who are in favor of abortion become Bronze Age pro-lifers when it comes to the male side of this.

Because you- I'm consistent. I've said that legally. Oh, I don't think the government should have a say on what you do with your bodily autonomy. And I think legally, a man should have, the government shouldn't like necessarily force you to claim childhood or parenthood over a child that you don't claim to have.

Does that make sense? I'm saying that there's a legal consistency here that I believe in. Okay, so you're in favor of a legal paternal surrender, perhaps in states where abortion is legal? Yeah. And men are already surrendering their children.

Even without that not happening, men can walk out on their children. I think it would be better. Of course. But I don't think, yeah. I think there's a difference between like moral and legality, and that's why I think we would agree. Yeah, men are already doing this.

I think it would just be better to regulate it and bring it above board and make it like a formalized legal thing. So I have a question. You're obviously very pro-life. Are you a vegetarian? I am not a vegetarian. Huh?

Yeah. I'm vegan. Doesn't sound very pro-life.

Sled! Well, a cow is not a human being. But it's a life. It's not a life. It's not a human being. I think he's pro-human.

Hold on a second. Is that a human life? You do know that- Human supremacy. Vegetables are alive too.

Broccoli screams when you pull it from the ground, don't you? And by the way, there is a moral difference between a cow or a salmon or swordfish than a human being. I don't think she was equating them, but she was just saying that they have the capacity for life, suffering. I think they're still alive though.

Or like I think a cow- That's why I said, hold on. Rewind the tape. I said, when does human life begin? I did ask that question.

Right? No, I don't think she was calling that into question. I was just asking, do you extend that to animals? Because most people won't extend that to animals.

No, I do not. Animals are life. I think that we as human beings have supremacy over animals. We should watch and care for animals to the best of our ability, so we should kill them humanely.

What is this? Come on now. That's what the abortion argument. Well, hold on. You made abortion.

Wait. If you really think a human life and a cow is similar, then that's- A cow is better than a human life. Let me just say that. Similar as far as moral worth and moral consideration. I don't think that there's going to be a comparison as far as in the way that you're making, I guess. But people feel this attachment to animals already, like they're pets, right? Like a dog or a cat. Honestly, if you ask most people, would you rather save a stranger in a fire or your pet, your dog or your cat in a fire? Well, that's screwed up morally. Most people would say, I'm going to save my pet. Yeah, because that's screwed up because they follow their heart, not their head.

Why my cat matters. Wait. You shouldn't follow your heart.

Really quick, but I do want to move. No, you are right. Most people would save their dog or a stranger when drowning. They would save the dog. You're right. If it was their dog. That is your dog and a stranger. But to answer your question, no, I'm a meat eater and I'm proud of it. He's a proud meat eater, folks. Oh, wait.

Really quick. You asked if I would date a pro-lifer, Lila. Who comes on your show? What's her name? Lila Rose. Lila Rose.

I would date Lila Rose. Okay. I will become pro-life for you, Lila. All right. I'll let her know.

And perhaps while she's married. Okay. All right. Okay.

I missed my opportunity. So I think some of you raised your hand when you said you were feminists. Do you guys believe in the patriarchy?

Yeah, of course. The evil patriarchy. I don't know much about it. It's conspiracy. It's basically QAnon for liberal feminists. It is.

Oh, sorry. Chase, he thinks that patriarchy is a natural state of the world and should be brought back to that. So how is that QAnon if it's like people within your own group believe that, acknowledging it? I disagree with Chase about a lot of things.

Okay. That included. He's been a recurring guest on the show, but his views are not necessarily representative of whatever. But do you think that the Chadcons or people, I don't think all Chadcons believe in this, but a lot of them who claim patriarchy should be the state of the world. Yeah, like the patriarchal family structure.

I think there's certainly some merit to it. And also I think people have different definitions of what that is. I mean, I certainly don't think that we live in a patriarchy currently. I don't think there's patriarchy. Do you mean the United States or globally or both?

I mean, I think it vary based on the country. That's a good question. For example, the United Kingdom has for the past 200 years, for most of those 200 years has been, maybe it's even more, has been under the rule of a queen. Well, it's monarchy, but I mean, I'm not super- A sovereign. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not super well educated on the- It's more a figurehead, but still. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

I wanted Charlie's thoughts on this. We're going to have a little bit of reverb issues, but just bear through it and then I'll fix it once next time we get to it. Sophia, I was curious, Sophia, you do OnlyFans, I noticed in some of your photos, Nick, if you can pull them up. Oh gosh. Oh gosh. Do that just a tad, Nick. Thank you. One more, Nick.

I, Mr. Wearing a Cross, next. Yes. Are you Christian? So I grew up Catholic.

I grew up Catholic and my mom- There's another. Scroll up, scroll up Nick. Scroll up. Scroll up, come on. Nope. Scroll down so I can- Oh gosh.

I know what this means. This has got to be a cross. Okay. The next one. Oh. It's a big cross right now.

It's still down. Okay. All right.

It doesn't pick. Jesus. I can't remember that. Another cross. Okay. What cheers you up?

What emoji is that? Again. Okay, next.

There's the cross. And then of course you use your Twitter to- Scroll down just a minute. You use your Twitter to- Yeah.

You promote your OnlyFans. Yes. I'm curious. Do you, while you're shooting your OnlyFans content, your pornographic content, do you wear your cross while you- Oh man. And I noticed you're wearing a cross.

I think you're wearing a cross. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. Do you wear your cross? I don't have a cross. I think you're- No, I took off my cross. I don't have a cross.

Right now. Well, that top one is like an altered- I have it at home, but- Anyways, do you wear your cross while you're shooting pornographic content? I probably have, yes.

You probably have? I- How do you reconcile? Are you Christian? I, well, I grew up Catholic. Okay, Catholic.

And my mom is, we grew up Catholic because of my dad and my mom is Christian. Okay. But I mean, my personal beliefs, I believe in God, I believe in a higher being, but I'm not as strict as I would say a Catholic would be, like a firm believer.

Okay. So I mean, I don't really think much of it and maybe I'm at fault for that, but I wear the cross because I do believe in God and I love- Sure. I guess just how do you reconcile, you know, wearing the cross, sort of still being a Catholic, I guess, with producing pornographic content? I guess- Which does seem at odds with the faith. I mean, she already said she doesn't think too much about it. I don't. That's- Okay.

That's, maybe that's where I'm at fault. I don't think it's at odds. You ever heard of Mary Magdalene? Jesus is- What is the assertion with her? Mary Magdalene was- I've heard differing accounts on that. Mary Magdalene was a- Are you Christian, Charlie? Or- Yeah, not mildly Christian. Okay. Okay. Yeah, Mary Magdalene was a prostitute.

Yeah. As inferred in the scriptures. But Jesus did tell a prostitute in John 8 to sin no more.

Sin no more. He loves all people. But he befriended her and he was- That is correct.

He loves all people, but he didn't necessarily love what they did. Sure. Yeah. It's important. Okay. And I'm only saying that.

I don't think that there's any point in the Bible where Jesus endorses her actions, but he does have love for her. Okay. Sure. And so I guess like, okay, do you think God wants you doing adult pornographic content?

Because you said you at least believe in God, right? Yes, I do. Okay. Okay.

Well, I don't think he specifically likes it, but I know that he does love me and I have reasons to why I do what I do. Okay. And they're good reasons. Sure. And it's not- Mostly it's not selfish at all. Sure.

I actually provide a lot for my family. Do you think God wants you doing adult content? Probably not. Okay. Okay. Fair enough. But- Do you have any thoughts on that, Charlie?

Well, I have like broad thoughts in general. Okay. Sure. I've enjoyed the discussion, everybody. And I will just make one parting thing.

Sure. Thank you guys for a respectful conversation, even though we see things very differently and I hope the chat enjoyed it. Look, for whatever it's worth, if you're engaged in the creation of that content, I think God has a better plan for you. I know that might sound preachy and not what you want to hear, but just maybe you'll have an encounter with God and Jesus loves all of you and he can transform your life.

He transformed my life. I've had a lot of problems in my life, a lot of problems, and Jesus solves everything. And every day is a new day and it's a hopeful, beautiful life ahead of you and I know that might not be something you even believe and you might think that all Christians hate you and your way of life and all those sorts of things.

Most of them do. Well, I'll say this. I'm a pretty firm believing, outspoken Christian and God loves every single one of us.

We're all sinners and Jesus died for us. I mean, you've definitely been the most respectful one that I've seen. Well, thank you. That's very kind. And I can tell you, it's not me.

If it was me, I'd be yelling and screaming. It's the Holy Spirit. It really is.

I know it might sound silly. It might sound cliche, but Jesus has gone to work on my life. And so, God bless you guys. Thank you for a great decision. Charlie, thank you for coming. Thanks so much for listening. Everybody email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening. God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.