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The Woman Claudine Gay Stole From

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January 4, 2024 5:00 am

The Woman Claudine Gay Stole From

The Charlie Kirk Show / Charlie Kirk

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January 4, 2024 5:00 am

Disgraced Harvard president Claudine Gay didn't just plagiarize — she stole work from a conservative professor! That professor, Vanderbilt's Carol Swain, joins to react to Gay's downfall and America's wider system of lowering standards in the name of diversity. Plus, Caroline Glick joins from Israel with an update on the grueling Gaza war, and explains how the Israeli left's supreme court shenanigans make their work in America seem tame.

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Hey everybody, to end the Charlie Kirk show, Caroline Glick, an update out of Israel as we cheer for Israel in their fight against the terrorists, and the second part of the program, Dr. Carol Swain. Amazing American, I have so much respect for her. What a great person.

She should be president of Harvard if Harvard wasn't awful. She's terrific, you're going to love this conversation. Email us as always freedom at and subscribe to our podcast, open up your podcast application and type in charliekirkshow. Get involved with Turning Point USA at That's Turning Point USA is the most important organization in the country.

Go to, that is Start a high school or college chapter today and also go to, become a member to listen to all of our episodes, advertise a free and become a member today. Buckle up everybody, here we go. I want to thank Charlie, he's an incredible guy, his spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

That's why we are here. Welcome back, everybody. Email us freedom at Joining us now is Caroline Glick. She's terrific. It's very late in Israel right now, so we are thankful for her joining the program. I have many friends right now in Israel right now helping in a variety of different ways. Caroline, please, for Americans that, you know, turn off their phones over Christmas break and New Year's, haven't been as far into the weeds, what is the latest in the military operation in Gaza going after the Hamas terrorists?

Give us an update. Let's just kind of wind back the clock over the last three weeks. What has been accomplished? Where do things stand?

Okay, so it's great to be back on your show, Charlie. So Gaza is roughly divided into three areas. Northern Gaza, which is where Israel's focus of effort was at the outset of the ground operation about six weeks ago, and then central and southern Gaza. And in the north, Israel's taken over above ground, over 80 percent or so of the territory. But we're facing a guerrilla war there because there are still apparently quite a lot of terrorists who are operating underground.

They're no longer directly confronting our forces. They're just trying to hold up underground there. But you're seeing less fighting in recent days, and Israel has been concentrating a lot on destroying the infrastructure there so that they won't be able to operate as freely. And the focus of effort right now is in central Gaza and also mainly, in fact, in southern Gaza right now. It's in the town of Khan Yunis where it's believed that the majority of the Hamas leadership moved, and also you have massive amounts of subterranean tunnels there. And there's concern and assessment that the hostages are also being held in Khan Yunis in the subterranean tunnel complex as human shields. So you're seeing a lot of combat, and our commando units are operating underground inside of the tunnel, both to find and kill the terrorists and also hopefully to find and rescue the hostages. So that's what's going on, and our eyes are now looking towards Rafah, which is the southernmost town in Gaza that abuts the international border with Egypt. And a lot of the weapons that are used by Hamas are imported from abroad through subterranean tunnels that traverse the international border with Egypt. So it's very important that Israel sees control of the international border, sees control of Rafah. So we're starting softening operations there.

We've been doing that for about a week, and the anticipation is that we'll move towards a larger ground operation in Rafah in the coming days or perhaps next week. And finally, we've developed a humanitarian area where you have the bulk of the Gazans who have fled their homes and the battles in northern Gaza that is closer to the western edge of Gaza, where the border with Israel is. And so you have a lot of aid going in there, and that's where the bulk of the civilians are. So how many people are still being held hostage?

Again, the lack of clarity on this in the western media is mind blowing. There are estimates. How many people are still being held hostage by Hamas? Well, I think that the latest assessment was 129. Hamas has killed 30 hostages in captivity, and so that's what we know, that there are 129 assessed live terrorists still in Gaza. I mean, that's a shocking number, and there are still some Americans, I believe, also, just for our American audience. Is that correct? It is correct. There were two American hostages that were executed. Executed.

And this is what some people say. Oh, you know, America, what is America's role? Hold on, they have American citizens. They're killing American citizens.

So the American passport holders, that's a red line for me. So the operation seems, I hate to use this word, Carolyn, because it's war, but it seems like it's going OK, as far as from an IDF standpoint, I mean, or going well, as far as hitting goals, hitting benchmarks. It seems to be a little bit of a waiting game for these savages to come out of their tunnels, right, that wait for them to come out of the tunnels.

Is that a fair assessment of where things stand currently? To a certain degree, it's an exercise in frustration, though, on some level, because the best way, the fastest way, and the way that's least dangerous, both for civilians in Gaza and also for our forces, to force them out of the tunnel, is to not resupply them. But the U.S. demand for humanitarian assistance to Gaza is essentially just an American demand that Israel resupply Hamas, because Hamas controls the humanitarian assistance. That humanitarian assistance is distributed in Gaza through a UN organization called UNRWA, and they are completely controlled by Hamas. Gazans on the ground have told IDF officers that all of the regional directors of UNRWA are Hamas terrorists. All of the people on the ground working for UNRWA for the aid are Hamas terrorists.

This was known beforehand, and it was known by the United States as well, but everybody's in denial about it. And so we have a situation where operating under the UN flag, Hamas terrorists are getting all of the international humanitarian assistance going to Gaza at the demand of the United States towards Israel. And they're handing out the food, the water, and most importantly, the fuel to themselves first, second to their loyalists, and only third, if at all, to the civilians in Gaza who are not aligned with Hamas. So the people who are supposed to be first online to get assistance, the ones who are not aligned with Hamas, are the last ones to get it, if at all, under the current situation. And really the way to help those civilians and alleviate their suffering is to allow them to leave Gaza, and that's a position that the United States completely opposes. So it's a very strange U.S. policy, but it makes it impossible for Israel to lay siege to the tunnels, which is what you have to do. They would all have to come up if they didn't have air, but they have air because they're able to operate their generators through the fuel that they're receiving at the insistence of the U.S. government. It's a very strange situation.

So, yeah, that's I just that's really helpful. So America in some ways is playing both sides. I mean, obviously helping Israel in some capacity, but then they're only prolonging the war. Is that fair to say that the American government is either intentionally or unintentionally prolonging this conflict? Because without fuel for generators, you come out of the tunnels, this thing ends quicker than not.

So American taxpayer dollars is making the war longer than it needs to be. It's very strange and it's very frustrating because, again, what we're seeing more and more is that the terrorists are just holding up in the tunnels. And then that's forcing IDF forces to go down into the tunnels, which is extremely dangerous because obviously they know what's in the tunnels and our commandos don't. So we're at a tremendous tactical disadvantage in being forced to fight inside the tunnels.

And it's something that shouldn't happen. And under normal circumstances, when you're dealing with tunnel warfare, every military organization that I've heard of, their goal is obviously to try to force these terrorists above ground. And that ought to be as well the position of the U.S. government. But since the government of the United States is insisting on resupply Hamas, including with the fuel, it's making it very difficult, if not impossible, to lead siege to these tunnels. We don't even know where all of them open up from so that you can't just block them off because we're still finding them.

They're in every house. And by the way, going back to the U.N., every single U.N. installation that our troops have entered in Gaza are used either for firing missiles or as the entrances and exits from tunnels. So that these are all part of Hamas's terror infrastructure in Gaza.

They are integral parts of Hamas's terrorist infrastructure. Is that is that fair to say that these, quote unquote, U.N. peacekeepers knowingly then have that their bases of operation are being used for warfare? That's against the U.N.'s charter, isn't it? The U.N. by definition is supposed to be a peacekeeping operation, not a not subsidizing rocket launching. That's unbelievable.

Right. And it's more than that. We also had a teacher at a U.N. school was one of the people who was holding the hostages who were leased in the hostages for terrorists deal that Israel undertook with Hamas in November. So that it's not just that, it's also that we've had in at least one case a U.N. worker who was committing a war crime, a crime against humanity.

Not only was he holding hostages, but he was starving them the entire time that he was holding them in captivity in his attic. Dark clouds are gathering as markets shutter. Stocks are sinking and currency stubbling. Fear and uncertainty reign the Middle East, Ukraine, Taiwan, the debt.

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Colin does an amazing job at Caroline, we're cheering for Israel and want to see Israel get to victory. Fill in our audience that is not as kind of, let's just say, up to date on the geopolitics. There was a news story of a drone strike in, I believe, Lebanon against a Hezbollah official. Is that right?

Fill us in here. No, actually Hamas. Hamas has, you know, they're part of the Iranian network, right, and so they're a full-fledged Iranian proxy. And so is Hezbollah. I mean, Iran controls Syria through the Assad regime, which is just a puppet of Iran. And the same thing, Iran has a Lebanese foreign legion, it's called Hezbollah, and Hezbollah controls Lebanon.

All aspects of the state of Lebanon are answerable to Hezbollah and Hezbollah alone because they're the most powerful group in Lebanon. And so Hamas became a full-fledged Iranian proxy a couple of years ago, and the man who led Hamas into the Iranian nexus is number two in Hamas's pecking order, a man named Salih al-Aruri, who was in charge of all of Hamas operations also in Sudan, Samaria, the West Bank of the Jordan River. And so he had this, he was a strategist of Hamas, and he was the reason why Hamas is a full partner with Hezbollah and an underling of Iran today.

And so he was living in Lebanon, which is basically like living in Iran, but they speak Arabic there, along with many other senior Hamas officials. And he was killed by a drone strike that shot three missiles into Hamas's operational headquarters in Beirut, in the Dahiya quarter of Beirut, which is the area where Hezbollah also has its headquarters located. So it was a Hamas target that was hit in sort of the heart of Hezbollah in Beirut. And so it was not a Hezbollah target.

No, thank you for clarifying that. It was a Hamas target. Yeah, in some ways, no, thank you, and I had my wires crossed, but in some ways, is it also a message to Hezbollah like, hey, don't engage yourself, you might be next, or is this just straight after Hamas still involved in the military operation? And I mean, I'm just estimating it's hundreds of miles from Gaza, right? I mean, Beirut is about central Lebanon. So this guy, was he seeking refuge in Beirut? Is that what he was doing, he was trying to flee essentially, or is he always based out of Beirut?

He's been living in Beirut for over a year. He travels, Hamas has operational headquarters in Gaza, obviously, but also in Qatar, in Turkey, and in Lebanon. So they have operational headquarters, fundraising headquarters in those three countries, as well as their operational headquarters where they run the regime in Gaza.

So Hamas is really a regional terror group, not just a local one. So final question here, Caroline, just fill us in on the Supreme Court, a lot of reporting on this, kind of hard to track. What is your take on first what the Israeli Supreme Court did and the ramifications? So, you know, for the year preceding the Hamas invasion on October 7th, Israeli society was riven by unprecedented division because we have a Supreme Court which makes activist justices in the United States look like the most conservative Antonin Scalia wannabes you've ever met.

Our justices in our Supreme Court are literally judicial dictators. And so this has been a cause that I've been fighting for against, against this activist judges in Israel for 30 years. And over the ensuing decades, because they started what they referred to as a judicial revolution in 1992, and they started seizing more and more of the powers of our parliament, the Knesset, and of our government through judicial fiat, through a series of very radical judgments that they ran. And so when the current Netanyahu government came into office a year ago, they were elected on a platform of judicial reform, the goal of which was to reduce the power of the court, to restore it to its legal position as a co-equal branch of government. And that caused the left to just go nuts because they are able to control policymaking and lawmaking through these radical justices, which under the Israeli crazy system actually select themselves. So this is something that you don't want to see in America.

And so we had this huge fight between the branches of government and the political left in Israel was rioting and calling for civil war and actually undertaking acts of political violence to tear the society apart. Hey everybody, we have a crisis in American education, and as a result, a national crisis. For decades, young people haven't been properly taught about our American heritage and what my friends at Hillsdale call civic education. As a result, too many young Americans are rejecting the principles of liberty.

Americans between 18 and 30 years old are those most likely to reject patriotism, look on our founding fathers as villains, and support the removal of historical statues, including statues of George Washington. As a society, we have neglected this problem for far too long, but Hillsdale College hasn't. Hillsdale has been leading the way in promoting civic education. And this year, Hillsdale is producing 60-second radio spots called Constitution Minutes, short, clear lessons on the principles of liberty, and I will feature them on my show. If you want to hear a Constitution Minute or share it with a young person you know, visit And while you're there, reserve a free pocket copy of the Constitution courtesy of Hillsdale College. That's for your Constitution Minute and free pocket Constitution. The plagiarism scandal at Harvard gets even more interesting because who was gay plagiarizing? Well, plagiarizing is someone who I have a great deal of respect for and someone that I'm honored to call a friend. Dr. Carol Swain joins us now. Dr. Swain, welcome back to the program. Walk us through all the facts here. The president of Harvard plagiarized your work.

Is that right? Well, my work was among the works of a number of people. In fact, there were two instances in her dissertation where she stole language from my book Black Faces, Black Interests, the Representation of African Americans in Congress. And that book was published in 1993, updated in 1995. It won three national prizes and was cited by the U.S. Supreme Court.

It was considered pathbreaking, the seminal work in the area of black congressional representation. And I have read Claudine Gay's dissertation and several of her articles. And my contention is that in addition to the verbatim lifting of language, that my ideas are riddled throughout her articles. And they're not dealt with in an intellectually honest manner.

So I am upset because traditionally when you do a scholarship, you do literature reviews, you engage the seminal work in the area, you cite the seminal work in the area. The way she handled my work was irresponsible. So that's part of why I believe she should be held accountable. But even if she's just a bad scholar, a sloppy scholar, all that means is that she doesn't belong at Harvard or any tier one institution.

In fact, a community college probably would not hire a professor who engaged in serial plagiarism. Yeah. And so but the the sick part of the story, Dr. Swain, is she keeps her nine hundred thousand dollar a year salary and she stays on faculty. So she just doesn't really it's not even a demotion. It's just kind of like I don't know.

Yeah, please. She's not being held accountable at all. And can you imagine what she will be teaching students at Harvard? Because her letter resignation was totally divorced from reality. There was no acknowledgment of the plagiarism. She blames racism.

They totally ignore me. I'm the only I'm not the only black person she plagiarized from. I'm the only one that's saying it's unacceptable.

Yes. So just fill our audience in. In an academic context, what is being held accountable look like? And Dr. Swain, I'll say something. If she was a white male who was found to be plagiarized, how would that white male typically be held accountable in an academic context? I mean, even black people up until Claudine Gay, whether you were black or white, anyone caught plagiarizing in a high profile position would be held accountable. But then we had we had these instances involving white journalists and writers that on the Democrat side, they were caught plagiarizing books and they did not pay a high price. So on the Democrat side, there's some plagiarism that they tolerate. But usually in academia, if you plagiarize your dissertation and that's found out to be the case, you're not going to get your doctorate on the basis of a plagiarized dissertation. So I really question whether or not she's Dr.

Gay. And then when it comes to the articles that she presented for tenure, those articles were riddled with plagiarized portions from other people's work. Even if she had not plagiarized her articles, her record would not warrant tenure at the Ivy League. So I have a lot, you know, that Harvard has become a joke and they're lowering academic standards. They're part of the race to the bottom. And it is the only good thing about this.

There's always a silver lining to everything. Is that we know now that we should never, ever look towards Harvard University for Supreme Court justices, for people that we want in high positions of authority, because we know that for the most part, those people have been indoctrinated. They don't know up from down. They don't know right from wrong.

They're not fit to be leaders. Boy, I could not agree more. Talk about your book, Dr. Swain, because it fits in. The book is called The Adversity of Diversity.

And let me read from page seven. Here's the stark truth about DEI. Diversity programs and those who enacted them have generally failed to make their workplaces more diverse, even while pandering to minorities and alienating whites. How does this fit into the Harvard story? I mean, Harvard is destroying its brand if it wasn't already destroyed by standing behind Claudine Gay.

And what they're doing that's harming higher education is that they're willing to try to redefine plagiarism to save this woman. And it's all because she's black, but not just because she's black. She is a product of the best schools in America. She didn't come from some inner city black school. She went to Phillips Exeter Academy, one of the leading boarding schools in America. Her parents are wealthy. She has a degree from Stanford University, undergraduate degree. She won a prize for her senior thesis. And I've been trying to get journalists to get a copy of that senior thesis and check it out, because if a person plagiarizes to the extent that she does, it didn't just happen.

She's probably been doing it all of her life. And so with DEI, there's so much emphasis on group identity and virtue signaling and they've totally divorced qualifications for the job from the demand to have people identify and represent certain groups. And you see that with the Biden administration. The Biden administration is filled with people representing groups, LGBTQ as well as women and racial and ethnic minorities. They're less concerned with whether or not these people are actually qualified. To me, it's very insulting to the qualified members of those groups who worked very hard to accomplish things, that their accomplishments are diminished by the fact that the racism so prevalent among Democrats, the real racism, is that they don't have a problem with that.

They think that they can stick any racial, political or sexual minority into a position and that qualifications don't matter. I think that is beautifully said. I want to play a piece of tape here and help us understand what she means by equity.

Let's play cut 20, please. So look, the president has always, always put equity at the center of every policy he's put forward, every legislation that he's put forward, because we understand that many communities have been left behind, have been left behind. We're not trying to do the trickle down economics. Your reaction, Dr. Swain, to Corrine Jean-Pierre and this idea of equity. First of all, young people like her, it pains my heart. As a person who spent most of a large part of my life in higher education, these young people, many of them racial and ethnic minorities have been totally indoctrinated.

They can't think themselves out of a brown paper bag. And with her, equity is about equal outcomes. The era that I grew up in and previously the people that came before me, like Bob Woodson, what we wanted was equal opportunity. We just wanted to get our feet in the door. And so when the 1964 Civil Rights Act passed that prohibited discrimination on the basis of race, sex, national origin and religion, that was like a godsend. It opened so many doors for people and it made it possible for us to get our feet in the door. Equal opportunity, nondiscrimination. There was a search for talented minorities. And so we benefited from that. Once you got your feet in the door, you had to prove yourself.

Not this generation. Equity means equal outcomes. You can just show up, have a chip on your shoulder, and you get slid into positions just because you belong to the right group and you can claim victim status. If I had relied on victim status, I'd still be in poverty in southwestern Virginia. That's a great point.

I want just about two minutes, Dr. Swain. Imagine you being a student now back where and your your accomplishments academically are amazing. It's impressive.

It's it's just awesome. But imagine if you were told from a young age everything is racist. You get extra points because of the color of your skin. Do you think you would have had the same career that you've enjoyed?

Probably not. And I can tell you that we grew up in dire poverty with eventually 11 siblings. And my mother's message never was that because we were black what we couldn't do. And she had high expectations. And I can remember my older sister and I, we tend to make A's even when we weren't going to school.

We came home with a report card of A's. She just thought that was normal until she had other children. And so she had high expectations. And and I grew up at a time when we believed in the American dream. We were taught that if you worked hard and got an education, you could make something out of yourself.

The emphasis was on you can make something out of yourself. Now, young people are told that because of the color of their skin or their sexual orientation or or their poverty status, that they are victim and that someone else is to blame. And the someone else tends to be white people who are considered privileged regardless of where they grow up. Even if they grew up in Appalachia and they live in a shack and no one finished the third grade because of their white skin. They're told that they're more privileged than the offspring of a black billionaire or millionaire. It's ludicrous and it harms America.

It does. The adversity of diversity. Check out her book. Email is freedom at Charlie Kirk dot com.

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But I thought I'd give it a chance. I've tried to find depression meds for 10 years. And since you Strong Cell, I'm feeling better than I ever have on depression medication. Customer for life. Thank you, Charlie Kirk, for recommending this product.

So there it is. You've heard from me directly and some of the users who have seen their lives changed by Strong Cell. I personally recommend taking it every day for at least 30 days. I take it every day before I go on the air and it's helped me in more ways than I can even name. Each of our bodies is very different.

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That is eight eight eight five nine six zero one five five or visit strong cell dot com forward slash Charlie. Doctor Carol Swain continues with us. So, Dr. Swain, how do we best defeat the D.E.I.

beast? What what should our plan of action be to push back against diversity, equity, inclusion? What I argue for in my book, the adversity of diversity is for people to know their civil rights, that all persons, which includes white people, are protected by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. And men are protected as well as women and men face a great deal of discrimination just because they happen to be male. It's important for all Americans to know their civil rights under the law and also that they are protected by the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. And racial ethnic minorities are very experienced with documenting discrimination. I think it's important that white people learn their rights, but also to document when they are being told things that violate the law or when they've been asked to do things that are in violation of the law.

Or if someone tells them directly that because you are white or because you are male or because you are Christian, you can't do X, Y, Z. You need to know your rights under the law and push back, file lawsuits. Companies understand lawsuits. That's how the white woman who was discriminated against by Starbucks was able to win a twenty five million dollar settlement. It was because she pushed back and many cases are being settled.

They're not even going to court. And there are some public interest law firms that have taken civil rights cases. So your argument then is to use the Civil Rights Act again and to challenge some of this anti white racism, essentially, that we're seeing in our country.

Is that what I'm saying? I'm saying we should use the laws of the land to benefit and that the Civil Rights Act of 1964. And then there are many local governments that have civil rights regulations that those have to be used by everyone. And the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination on the basis of race. It prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex as well as religion. In today's culture, we find that men are discriminated against often because they are male and Christians are discriminated against more frequently, as well as whites and Asians. So the Civil Rights Act was not just passed to protect the rights of blacks and Hispanics, but it was passed to protect everyone's rights. And I think a lot of white people are not aware of that. And we also need to know and realize that we have constitutional rights, that every person in the United States is guaranteed equal protection of the laws.

And so between the Equal Protection Clause and the Civil Rights Act, there is a recourse for discrimination. But you have to be able to recognize it and document it. And that that is the question. How do you how do you prove it and how do you end up addressing it?

Final question here, Dr. Swain. It's important, in our opinion, on this program to push back any time there is disparate outcome blaming it on discrimination. I think that's one of the most important things we can do as far as pushing back against this idea of systemic racism. How do you respond in a minute to the charges that America is systemically racist? Well, I mean, the disparate impact is a legal concept that has been used to really push a lot of the race-based solutions. I think all that needs to be revisited because it's not the same country that it was 50 or 60 years ago. Whites are minority in many parts of the country. And what made sense maybe, perhaps it made sense 60 years ago, doesn't make sense today that we need to treat everyone equal under the law.

Discrimination is not hard to identify and document because so many people will openly tell white people, Christians, disfavored groups why they're discriminating against them, why they are being excluded. Dr. Carol Swain, you are a hero. And I think in a normal, saner times, you should be president of Harvard. But I don't know if you'd want that job.

The president of a deep anti-racism, deep state. But you are deserving of such an honor, is what I'm saying. Dr. Swain, God bless you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us, as always, freedom at Thanks so much for listening. And God bless.
Whisper: medium.en / 2024-01-04 06:20:44 / 2024-01-04 06:34:09 / 13

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