They Hate You Because You’re Telling the Truth — My Interview with Tucker Carlson

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Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the white house, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

Brought to you by the loan experts I trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific mortgage mortgage at andrewandtodd.com. Tucker, welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me.

I was just saying you've been everywhere lately. Well, we just launched this new venture and in an effort to insulate ourselves from cancellation, we went with a subscription model. And so I've just been out telling people about it for the last week and learning about the power of podcasts, which I didn't fully appreciate as a middle-aged man, that almost all the interesting conversations in the world take place on podcasts.

Right here. Well, I always do your podcast, but I just wasn't fully aware of the breadth of podcasts and how many smart people were conducting them and listening to them. I mean, I went on a couple of podcasts and got all these texts from people I knew in childhood. Well, I heard you on some podcast I'd never heard of.

And you're amazing. I listen every week. It's so cool. It's like this underground media. Now that you're learning about it, does it give you hope that different ideas can penetrate?

100%. Yeah, because part of the problem with working in cable news, and I spent more than 25 years in it, is that it's totally self-referential. You're in this little universe. You're on one channel. There are a couple other channels. You're watching what they say carefully. You're monitoring some stupid website called Mediaite, which has a total readership of 1,100 people. And they're all producers.

They're all producers. And you somehow convince yourself, as one does when you live in a tiny little world. I mean, if you were in a medieval French monastery in 1500, you would think that nothing that happened outside the monastery was important, because your world is what matters. And when you work in cable news, cable news is the world that matters.

And then when you leave, you're like, actually, this has no effect on anything. Who cares what they're saying on MSNBC? I spent all these years being mad at MSNBC and CNN.

I worked at both of them, so I know from the inside how rotten they are. And then I left, and I'm thinking, we don't have, we've never had a TV at home, so I never watch it anyway. But I don't see the clips.

It doesn't seem to make any difference. Their audiences are tiny. Your podcast has way more listeners who are careful, close listeners than any show on CNN or MSNBC, maybe Fox.

So why are we spending this disproportionate attention on things that don't matter? So I'm just so grateful to ignore all of that, because it's dishonest and stupid. Well, and you're right, the depth of the listener is completely different.

Completely. Not only is the audience bigger, but one listener on a podcast is worth like 100 on cable TV, because they listen on every word. And the ear is different than the eye. I totally agree with that. I mean, I'm a reader, not a watcher.

So I completely agree. Things that I read stick much longer than things I see. Yeah, and things you listen, I think, because you're not distracted by all of the pretty people on TV saying things. Do you think that, I mean, you and I have talked about this privately, I've heard you say it publicly recently. There are things that people are now saying on social media and podcasting that five years ago you weren't even allowed to think, let alone say. It's happening at a rapid pace, right?

Yeah, everything is changing so fast. It's a little bewildering to me. And it's not, I mean, I think it's positive in the sense that the truth is the only thing that matters. There's so much lying in our country that it's bewildering. So I'm 100% in favor of people telling the truth always, and I think it's the key to strength is being honest in your personal life as well as your public life.

The downside of it from my perspective is it's so much at once. I'm 54. I grew up, obviously, in this country, and my father worked for the federal government, was a Marine Corps veteran. You know, and we had our own views.

We were never liberal at all. But I never questioned the basic honesty of a lot of institutions in my life, including the denomination that we belong to, the agency in the federal government I had worked for. All this stuff I never, I probably should have questioned, but I didn't.

But if you're my age, you probably have shared my experience. And now I'm learning in the space of like five years that a lot of it was a lie. And some days it feels like all of it was a lie. And not just those institutions, but the accounts they told us of our history.

It's like all completely distorted. And to learn all of that at one time is just a lot. And some days it feels oppressive to me. It's like I just want to believe in something. And I do believe in things. And I believe in God.

I believe in my family and my friends. And that's all pure and real. But the rest of it often feels like a movie set that's just blown down in the strong wind. And you see, this is fake. It's freaking me out. And I know that there are people in this room who have had that feeling.

You were saying this privately. I hope you don't mind me repeating it, which is that when you do eight, nine, 10 hours a day of like rigorous interviews. Yes. It does impact you. I feel the same way. Hugely. Hugely. You talk about you. You do become a product to your environment.

Of course you do. And it's sort of like in my family growing up and now. So my whole life, our primary form of entertainment is dinner parties. Always had a lot of dinner parties, people over to the house, having dinner and talking and playing backgammon or whatever, but talking.

And I have been changed by a lot of those dinner parties. You know, you hear things, you learn from people's experiences, their observations. And it really it stays with you a long time. A podcast is that times like 100 because it's focused and intense. And people come with specific knowledge they want to impart.

They've thought it through. It's so interesting. And if you, you know, have a I mean, I did like five podcasts in one day this week or last week.

And by the end of it, I was just weighed down by all the thoughts that were kind of occurring in my head. And we my wife and I are four children are grown. So we live in a very quiet environment. It's like us and our many dogs. And that's it.

And, you know, have dinner, talk, all the stuff. I was I was so distracted because I'm thinking about all the things that we talked about. And it's super dark. And it's just I guess I would just bottom line it and say all these bad things happening in a row, all this disclosure happening at once, all these realizations dawning on aware people simultaneously. None of that is accidental. Like we're accelerating towards something. I don't know what it is. Don't ask me like deep theological questions, but clearly something is afoot.

This is not a normal time at all. And let's not pretend it is. And so I don't think we can affect the outcome of most of these things, obviously, but we can affect who we are and we can become stronger. And we need to do that. I really believe throughout all of that.

Oh, by surrounding myself with people who are honest and loving. I mean, I just the barrier to entry into my world is very, very high. There's nothing to a status or anything like that. I don't care.

One of my closest friends doesn't have a high school degree, you know, has never had a white co worked on an asphalt plant. You know, it's like not. So it's not that I don't care about that.

And as I get older, I care about it even less. I don't care who your family is. And I definitely don't care what are some stupid school.

I want to do little Dylan's at Princeton. I just threw up on myself like I grew up in that world. So I know a lot about it. And I know that none of that stuff means anything.

And if you get the prize at the end, it's not worth having that. It's all a lie, actually. None of that means anything. And so it's not that the barrier to my world is honesty and sincerity because I just can't deal with any more lying. So when I'm in and by my world, I mean, at dinner.

Yes. You know, we have a million friends and we love them all. We love them even more now than we did five years ago before the great sorting took place and before covid happened and before you learned that your neighbors, you always kind of liked, were actually kind of fascists. You know, you didn't know that. And I was kind of happy not knowing that I didn't want to know that about my neighbors.

I like my neighbors. You know what I mean? And they're like yelling at me about the Vax or their stupid little masks or whatever they call them. It's like, I don't want to know that about you. It's like seeing you sleeping with your wife. I don't want to know. I don't.

I mean that. I don't want to know, by the way, just not that I'm a Bible scholar, but what were Adam and Eve punished for? Ignorance, ignorance, the greatest sin in our civil. No, of course, not knowledge eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They were punished for knowing too much.

So we were on autopilot all the time. We're like, oh, you know, I just need to know more. And some days I'm like, I don't think I really do. I don't want to see what you do in the bedroom. I don't know your Vax, your stupid Vax opinions. I don't want to know all that stuff.

But of course now we do and you can't unsee it. And so that's very sad. But the upside is you decide like I'm just not going to.

It's not even about the Vax or BLM or whatever. I don't be around liars anymore. I'm only around honest people.

And as soon as you do that, then it's like, wow, my wife and I were talking about this weekend. It's like, you know, we've never had closer friends, people we respect more, people we love or people we trust more. It's not about me having a public job. That's not even it's not even about that. It's just on a on a true personal level, you can't be close to someone who's lying about himself or anything else, you know? So I want to kind of go off that, Tucker. You said it before, and it's worth repeating because it's so important. The liars in our society generally get rewarded, if not, at the very least, just for sure.

But the truth tellers course that the incentive structure is if you tell the truth, you get one hundred eighty million dollar judgment or a billion dollar judgment against. Oh, I've noticed. Yes. Yes. I mean, it's obviously so distressing.

But let me just as I'm trying to now do trying to teach myself to do there is an upside. And let me just say what it is. For one, it's it's a confirmation that this is not a political struggle. OK, it's not about politics, not ideology.

It's not even about money. It's something much, much deeper. People are lying for the sake of lying. Truth is abhorrent to them because it's true.

What is that? Well, that's the battle between good and evil that's raged continuously since the beginning of time. OK, sorry. You don't have to be a believing Christian, which I happen to be. You could just be a sentient person and realize that that's what that is. So don't be distracted into thinking, you know, this or that is some debate between Republicans or Democrats. I mean, everyone's already figured out the Republicans hate their voters probably as much as the Democrats hate Republican voters, like they're all united in their hatred of people who vote Republican or who are married or who have normal children or whatever. They hate the good things. That's the bottom line.

They hate the good things and they hate above all truth. So that's the first good thing about it. The second good thing is it's like a super easy, handy guide to what actually matters and what's true. If you want to know what's true, look around who's being punished and what are they being punished for. And if someone's being, you know, all of a sudden if they're leveling a billion dollar civil judgment against a guy for a radio show, you've got to find the transcript of that radio show.

Right? And it doesn't mean every word in the radio show is going to be accurate. Of course not. By the way, I would say that this is true for I mean, now that we're getting into the Bible, it's like it's true for, you know, the books of the prophets like or anybody who has crazy insight into things. Often they're half crazy.

That's true. I know some. And like you probably wouldn't want to invite them to dinner with your kids and they don't have great table manners and they do speak in a disjointed way. And they are so intense about things. They see things so clearly.

And by the way, I'm just, how honest do you want to be? Some of the people we classify as mentally ill fall into this category. That's true. And I have made a lifelong habit of listening to people because I think they're interesting, even before I was a journalist. And one thing I have noticed about people who are mentally ill is that, you know, they speak in disjointed ways. But if you listen carefully, it's not all disjointed. Sometimes it's just gobbledygook and crazy or whatever, but if you listen carefully, you will sometimes find things that are like really true, you know?

They're like flashes. And I'm not saying that we should call every schizophrenic a prophet. I'm not saying that. But I also think that we should listen to everybody and recognize that truth flows from unlikely sources. And you can't know what they are ahead of time. And if you decide that only, and this is what they're trying to do, these are our trusted sources. These are the oracles of truth. This is the only place you're going to get the truth.

That is the opposite of what we should do. We should be open to the fact, the demonstrated fact, that truth comes at us from directions that we cannot predict and from people we wouldn't suspect. That is just absolutely right. And anyway, so we should just acknowledge that if they're landing on you in a dog pile, and NBC News and CNN and the Department of Justice and the, whatever, the senile president, all of them are denouncing you, it's not because you're lying. It's because you're telling the truth. And I mean it too.

And I hate to say that because that's so dark and cynical, but it's just, it's factually accurate. But the hopeful wrinkle, because it's been a little heavy and that's good, is that there are millions of people that now can at least for this moment start telling the truth thanks to Elon buying Twitter. Amen. Thanks to the podcast space. Amen. There is this awakening.

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You were on cable TV a couple of years ago, and I don't think you said the words, but you got close to talking about the great replacement. Yeah. And they came after you so hard and they said, we must take Tucker off air and dah, dah, dah. I remember I defended something you said, and we lost advertisers and the whole thing. And today. It's just hilarious that that bothers them.

It's not happening and it's good that it is. Exactly. Yeah. I mean. But now anyway, the point of the story is I just tweeted out today that you're being replaced and everyone's like, man.

Yeah. It's like all of a sudden, in some ways, the truth overton window is moving. Vivek Ramaswamy goes up on stage and says the great replacement is not a conspiracy theory.

It is the policy of the Democrat party. Three years ago, I mean, the cost of that statement three years ago, what I'm getting at is you're kind of this trailblazer. Tucker, you especially that has allowed other people to say things that otherwise would we would never been able to say before. Yeah, I mean, and that is that's a big deal. The funny thing is, well, I'll take that as a compliment.

I appreciate it. I mean, that is your compliment. But the funny thing is I'm like incredibly moderate. I'm like the most moderate person I've ever met in the in the true sense of the word moderate.

Just I'm not my parents get divorced when I was little. I'm not for radical change because I don't believe all change is good. Actually, I think people can move backward.

I am a student of Rome. I know that there were no aqueducts built in Europe for 1000 years after the city fell in the fifth century. So I don't think that history is an endless, inexorable progress forward or up or toward enlightenment. That's just not true. That's a huge lie and a massive misconception.

So I don't think if we like reshuffle the deck, we're likely to get more aces every time. We just don't. And by the way, I liked growing up here and I was born in 1969, the year of the moon landing. And just I love saying that it just cracks me up.

By the way, I'm totally open minded on that, but I don't know. But anyway, the year of the purported moon landing. And I lived in California, which was like the greatest state. I mean, in my family, my mother's family came to California in 1850. And they were never stopped talking about it. We're so proud we're from California.

It's hard even to imagine that world now. But they really were sincerely proud of it. And we really felt like anyone who didn't live in California was like, really unfortunate, sad, like they've had a bad diagnosis. Like you don't want to talk about it. You know, they have the C word.

They don't live in California. Because it was just so great. And by great, I mean, had a massive, the biggest middle class in the country was super clean, which is really important. And I know it's very Euro centric of me to want cleanliness and order. But it's not just about and those are European values, sorry. But it's more than that. It's bigger than that. Those are godly values.

Yes. Order is from God and chaos is from his enemies. So we had that we had very little corruption.

At least it was obvious you could be pulled over by the cops are not going to extort you. It was awesome. And we had the most amazing natural beauty in the continental United States.

So I watched all of that collapse into this really unfortunate thing. I don't want to overstate it, but it's almost impossible to overstate. It's a third world country. It's not even a third world country.

I spent a lot of my life in third world countries that I really love. And it's less than that. It's totally chaotic and horrible. So I my only view is let's make it California 1985. And if that's like racist or radical, tell me how how is that radical? That seems like the most moderate possible position. But I can't imagine anything more moderate than that. And so that's my view of myself. And last thing I'll say is that part of the reason that conservatives have trouble telling what they think is true in public is that they've been convinced that their views are like fringe or weird or embarrassing. And I guess I'm autistic. I've just never thought that.

I've never thought that for one second. I always think I have really like sensible middle of the road moderate views. I don't want revolution. Everything I've done in the past 10 years was to try and call people's attention to the fact we're going to get a revolution if you don't knock this crap off.

If you don't listen to people and restore democracy, which we do not have, democracy is a pressure relief valve. It keeps people from getting crazy. I don't want crazy people.

I don't want mob rules. I don't militia in the street. I don't want a civil war. So that's the radical position. You know, calling in a couple of times in foreign policy, I'm sure no one here agrees with my foreign policy, which is out of step.

Thank you. But I'm not going to defend it. I'm just going to say I've never taken more grief than I did when I worked in my previous job for saying, like, maybe we could find a way to end the war.

Having covered worse, I know that they're really ugly. Sometimes they're necessary. But if you can end them, you should. I think, by the way, that's a Christian value. That's like one of the highest Christian values. Bring peace. I see all these freaking preachers on TV calling for war. God can deal with them.

But I despise them. I mean that. But how does it get to be radical? How is it considered radical to call for reconciliation? It's like it's crazy. How is it considered radical to call for a restoration of the country to what it was 30 years ago? Post Jim Crow. I mean, how is that right?

It's not. And I refuse to believe that my views are radical. I don't believe they're radical. They never have been radical. And I just pray they never become radical. But they're pushing me to become radical is the truth. They're pushing.

They won't stop. And I mean, I grew up in a world where, like, I mean, I grew up in La Jolla, California. Talk about freaky personal lives. There was not one person in my town who had a normal sex life. Not one. And our view was like, I don't want to know about that stuff. You want to dress up like a girl and go ahead, man, just keep it out of my face. And if you bring it to my kids school, I'm going to beat the crap out of you. Okay.

And that was like, that was a great arrangement that I would have been content to live with for the rest of my life. But they wouldn't stop and they won't stop now. They're trying to tear down the monument to the peace reached in the civil war. And I'm looking at this and I'm like, where are all the veterans or the descendants of civil war soldiers, which would include me and you?

Why are we putting up with this? I just don't, I don't get it. So they're driving me to a position of resistance, which I did not want to occupy. It does not match my temperament. If you saw how I lived, you would know that there's nothing radical about me.

I can't wait to get off Twitter and go bird hunting. You know what I mean? I mean that, but they're making it impossible. This is, this is an important point. So the people who should know better and allegedly do know better, they're stoking a revolution. Oh, absolutely. But then it's helped me understand that it's going to come for them too. They think they're immune to it.

They're going to go to Auckland or Zurich. You spend a lot of time with the ruling class. Oh yes I have. So, but I can't properly explain this or understand it. So this was the insight that totally changed my life. And my insights, I should warn you, are very small. And they're reached about 20 years after the fact.

So they're not really useful. But this one did change how I think. So for the last 10 years, well I don't know when this insanity started. Second term Obama, I think, in retrospect, but I kind of missed a lot of that because I was just, I wasn't expecting it, right?

You never are. And things started to get crazy and I was like, oh it's probably on the fringes or whatever. And all this stuff happened and it took me years to figure out what it was. And the whole time I was trying to put a rational overlay atop the news.

Like we have 15 different isolated events. These people are saying that they became women somehow through magic. These people are calling for like invading a country that has done nothing to us. All this was all happening at once. I was like, what does this all mean?

If you do these things, you'll wreck the country that you occupy. That's right. And so for a while it was like, well they must all have foreign passports or bank accounts in some other country or I don't know. Maybe they've got a plan.

They're going to Baker's Bay. Yeah, this whole thing. I was like, but then I realized, no they don't have a plan. They don't have a plan because it's evil. It's not a political difference.

These are not policy differences. These are things done for the sake of destroying. Destroying the good. Making it uglier.

I'm really interested in aesthetics and beauty because I think it matters almost more than anything else because it's a reflection of truth. And so the march of ugliness across the United States is shocking to me. It's shocking to me.

The buildings are driving through Phoenix. I'm sorry. I saw these buildings and I almost said something to the people in the car with me and I didn't want to be boorish because it's very easy for me to be, but I thought to myself, where are the architects and why aren't they in prison? You could build something like, no I mean it. I mean it. I mean it. You're doing this to the rest of us. How dare you?

What's your name and why aren't you on trial? And I mean that from the bottom of my heart because I think it really matters. What you look at in your daily life forms you. If you raised a child in a box with no stimulation, what would that child become?

Disabled. If you raise a person in a society that's relentlessly ugly, where you're completely cut off from nature, which is the purest thing because God created it, then you will raise a totally different kind of person. And if you have a society that imposes relentless, sterile, repetitive ugliness on its population physically, I mean physically we can go see it.

Drive back toward Charlie's headquarters where I just came from and there's a mall by the side of the road. I thought that's not an accident. Someone is trying to offend me by building that.

But of course it's not personal. It's part of a much larger theme which is evil has descended on the country. There's no plan to escape it. The people who are perpetrating it will themselves be consumed by it because that's the nature of evil. No one gets out alive.

It destroys the vessel as well as the target. And if you've ever known an evil person, you know they're not happy. They are suffering too. If there's someone in your life who is tormenting, like actual torment, not the evil you disagree with or find annoying or whatever, but an actual evil person who's doing evil is dividing people for its own sake. You are not looking at a happy person.

I don't care how much money they're making doing it. They are being destroyed too because that's its nature. And I mean, how did Judas do?

No, I'm serious. But we don't need to go back to the New Testament to see examples of this because you can see them in your own life. So it is in your own life that you can so it is evil for its own sake. It will destroy the people through whom it is flowing because that's what is through whom it is flowing.

That's right. And I just don't have a death wish. I don't want to serve evil.

I don't have anything to do with that. I have run away. I'm ashamed to admit it. I just realized this yesterday.

I was like, these people are such cowards that I'm like, wait, I live in a town of 100 people. You know what I mean? I've run away.

You know, I should be standing in Midtown Manhattan with both middle fingers raised. No, no, no, no. You know what I mean? Hey, everybody. Exciting news.

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Do the architecture thing. It's so freaking. I want their names. I want them in prison. I do. And I mean it. You should say it.

I mean it. And the thing is the first time I ever said this in public, it was like one of those, I was in whatever, it's a long story. I was in a foreign country and it was early in the morning. They're like, Oh, would you, you know, cause I didn't understand the language. We're here for your speech. And I was like, Oh, who's giving a speech. And they're like, you are, you know, I mean, it was like four minutes preparation. I was like, okay. I threw in one of my zins and, uh, and just started going and I look around and like, we're in this, it was in Hungary and we're all these buildings. And I was just like, Oh, this is where I want to live because it's beautiful. And so I just wanted this long riff about architecture, which is of zero interest to like 95% of the crowd.

They're like, who is this guy? See an architecture critic with politics. That was it. I gave the speech. I get back to the United States and there are all these pieces about how I'm a Nazi, a Nazi. I don't think I'm a Nazi actually. I'm like kind of the opposite.

I'm against that. But, um, because I guess Hitler was into architecture or something, but that's not really that well, no, I'm, I'm, which I didn't know. He also had a dog dog, right.

And I have four, so I'm four times Hitler. Um, but, but it wasn't even about that. It was about pointing out that the people who control our country, who finance its building projects, for example, are committed to oppressing us through ugliness, which is true. They hated and they hated any expression of the desire for beauty because what is beauty? Beauty is truth. The truer something is, the more beautiful it is. You will never, and no one ever has in the history of the graphic arts, created a picture more beautiful than my Springer Spaniels face, which is true. Well, it was just true. And I'm not going to bore you to my wife who says no one wants to see your dogs.

Okay, I got it. So I'm not going to show you a picture of my dog, one of my many dogs, but that is the most beautiful thing. A child's face is the most beautiful, you know, a sunset, all the cliches, a mountain, a white pine and snow beat that Roy Lichtenstein.

You can't because nothing is prettier than that. And to the extent that you cut me off from that, you're killing my soul. And I go buy more ammo because that's where we're going. I mean it. If your agenda is to cut me off from nature and beauty, your program is inherently a lie. And if you're imposing that on me and my children, the only point is to extinguish us or enslave us. And I just don't think we understand the stakes at all.

And I think beauty aesthetics aesthetics is a window into that. Okay, that's how insane I am. No, I think you're totally right. You're totally rational. Mr. Carlson, you're totally you're totally rational.

Leave my eyes, please. And I totally agree. The architecture at its best points up. That's why the old buildings of Europe, because it would be to glorify God.

Yes. And circle is the perfect shape because there's no starter and like God's grace and mercy for us all in eternity where we had next. And buildings should should should elevate the soul, not depress us into utilitarianism or some sort of widget based existence. But the building materials themselves do that. Well, that's right.

Build. And I don't mean to attack this room or this conference center or wherever we are. I have literally no idea where I am.

I think I'm in Arizona. But if a ceiling like that could not be devised by anyone who doesn't hate people, there is no reason for that. There is no reason for a synthetic drop ceiling and recessed lighting. Let's just it would be it would be cheaper to take this room and clad it in hemlock or white pine or fur.

I mean it. And if you were in a wood paneled room, you would feel you would feel it because what was the life and you can and I won't live in a room that's not wood paneled. And by the way, it's literally cheaper than drywall. I'm just telling you that depending on the wood market.

But if you're not choosy about your woods, you can get a softwood clad room for cheaper than hanging drywall. And the difference that it makes in your life is like unbelievable. So why wouldn't you do that? Well, because you want to send the message that the people sitting in the room are worthless. And no, I'm serious.

They mean nothing. And when I look up at the ceiling, I'm like, oh, life has no point. And my death will make no difference at all, just like my life hasn't. And I guess I will submit.

Do you have any SSRIs? You guys, think about it. By the way, I'm not kidding at all. By the way, Roger Scruton wrote extensively about this. He was on the cutting edge of it, which is aesthetics has this relationship with the citizenry. Now, here's a question for you. Do the aesthetics lead the people or is the aesthetics the reflection of the current culture or vice versa?

Well, nothing. I mean, the people unfortunately are not responsible for almost anything that happens in their society. And this is true for all societies. And when I'm accused of being a populist, which I'm not, I will just refer to like the last 3,000 years of recorded history and note that there's never been a society led by the majority. You hope the majority can have some input through voting.

That was our promise, which is fake. But the decisions in any society are made by a small group of people. You're always going to have elites. Like you just are. That's the nature. People are hierarchical, just like dogs are. My dogs are very hierarchical. And they're very rigid about it and snobbish. And you're not going to beat that out of people.

So the best you can hope for is an elite that loves the people or at least cares about them. It's necessary or else you don't survive. Right. No, I mean... Or you live in some sort of... Well, it's like cancer. What is cancer? Cancer is the process by which your own cells turn against your own body. You can't catch cancer.

And see, I could probably inject you with it. But in general... That's fake, says Wikipedia. Totally fake. Jack Ruby just got cancer right before his second trial and died in less than a month.

Totally organic. Anyway, he smoked bad at 58. But anyway... But in general, you can't catch cancer. It's your own body killing itself, okay? Or turning against itself.

And that is what societies tend to do. We're never going to be defeated by a foreign army. We can only be undermined from within. Everyone knows that. Everyone feels that. And we now have a ruling class that's totally intent on destroying what our ancestors built and killing the population. It is the picture of the snake eating itself, is what it is.

And it will destroy what you said, both the vessel and the target, both together. So are you seeing something on the horizon, Elon, Ackman? Are some elites defecting? Is it enough?

Is it going to cause some, at least, let's just say, glitch in their plan? You know, honestly, I've actually made money over the years just betting with people on presidential elections and stuff. I feel like I'm pretty good at foreseeing obvious trends because they're obvious. And because I try to look at the world like a dog. I don't listen to everything. I just kind of stare and note the obvious things. You know what I mean? But this is one case, and by this I mean the next 12 months, it's like a shower curtain.

I can see shapes, but I can't make them out. And so I really don't know what is going to happen. My strong sense is that the deception will increase and become really intense and that a lot of the people you think are on your side are actually not, and whether they know it or not. I'm trying not to use the term false profit, but I think that that's real. And, well, of course it's real. We've seen it a lot.

So I don't really know who those people are. This is just my sense. And I could be completely wrong, as I have been often. But I don't see any sign of this slowing down at all. And I just don't think that there is. I think the developments that you mentioned, like Elon, I mean, that's a huge history-changing development. But where does it go?

I really don't know. Well, in some ways it could only accelerate what might already be happening. It actually might be an accelerant more than a remedy. Dude, I'm so against that too. You see these reckless people online being like, what we need is a civil war.

It's like, do you know what that is? They've obviously never visited a country that has been through a civil war. I was just in Spain. Their civil war ended in 1939, 8, 9, 8, I think, whatever.

Close to 90 years ago. And that society is still ripped in half by the civil war, and in ways that are very, very obvious. So our own country is still arguing about the civil war, or I guess that argument's not allowed anymore.

Are we just taking it for granted? We just take down the statues and call you a racist. Yeah, it was treason. Okay, yeah, treason.

So, which is insane. Then why was no one hung for treason? Half the country believed that it was a volunteer union, the other half believed it wasn't. So okay, they had a difference of opinion. They were all Americans, and many died on both sides. So to reduce it to some sort of fairy tale good and evil, passion play is disgusting, and really beneath us as a country. But it has a purpose. There's a reason they're doing that, of course, which was to erase American history and to indict your ancestors so they can indict you because they believe in collective punishment.

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Remember, we have the momentum, but we need your help today. Portions of this program of the Charlie Kirk show are brought to you in part by the Council for Citizens Against Government Waste. Anyway, you know, look, I don't want radical behavior. I really hope that my tongue will not be a vehicle for radical statements.

It has been in the past. My wife always scolds me. I don't want to be radical. I want to be sensible. I want to treat people as people, not as members of groups at all. That's wrong, and I'm never going to do that.

Maybe I'll get pissed and do it, but I will apologize. And I want to make things better. The last thing I'll say is I think people have a lot in common because they're all people. I really believe that.

I know you think I'm like playing Dr. Seuss or something, but I really believe that. I think the race stuff is totally overblown to this day, and I've heard I'm very hated. I've never one time had any black person come up to me like, you're racist. I hear all the time I'm a racist, which I'm not. I'd admit it if I was.

I'm not. The only people who've ever called me racist are like angry 49-year-old white female lawyers. They're super convinced I'm a racist. Every black person they ever meet is like, hey, man.

So I'm serious. I mean, maybe, I don't know, but I can only tell you my own experience. And I think most people don't spend all day mad about race.

And you don't want to live in a country where they do, trust me, at all. So we have a lot in common, and I hope that people realize that before it's too late. So you're about to address a bunch of young people. There's a massive crisis with men in this country. Yeah.

Yeah, that's for sure. I have three daughters. Talk about the crisis of masculinity in the West. You know, it's hard for me because I grew up in not just a male-headed household. I grew up alone with my dad and my brother.

So it was dudeville in my house. And it's hard for me to talk about it without being judgmental because I just don't have any respect at all for passive men at all. And we had this, I just don't. And by the way, it's not helpful to be judgmental. It's not helpful to be like, you're all losers. How does that help?

It doesn't help at all. And people are, you know, if you're a 24-year-old man, you're facing forces that I can't even understand because I just didn't grow up in your world, okay? So you're under pressures that are profound, and I don't want to be judgmental. But clearly, we've totally destroyed the relationship between the men and women completely, completely. And for, I don't know, a short period like 3,000 years, the arrangement between men and women was very, very simple, straightforward, and rooted in nature.

It was, you know, bear my children, sleep with me, you know, love me, and in exchange, I will lay down my life for you. And that's called the patriarchy, and it worked really well. And we overthrew the patriarchy, and no one benefited. And women are much, you know, unhappier than they've ever been.

There are surveys that show it. And men are so lost that they're degrading themselves. And killing themselves. And killing themselves, if not losing themselves in weed and porn. And I, so when I try and step out of my judgment and reaction, I feel deep sympathy, but overturning not just the gender binary, the trans stuff, which is, I think, very significant, but it's also a little bit, if I can be, how honest do you want to be, it's a little bit of a sideshow.

It's not a sideshow, but it's like, actually, we already gave up on the real battle. Which is, like, you should be able to have a single parent, you know, single income family. And it's not virtuous to send your kids to be raised by people who don't speak English all day.

I'm sorry. And a lot of people have to do it. And I feel sorry for them, and I feel sorry for their kids.

And I know that they suffer when they do that. But daycare is not a virtue, it's a last resort. And if you ask people, like, would you rather raise your own children? Overwhelmingly, they say yes. And the only people who don't say yes are upper income, educated white women, who I just dislike as a group, I'm just going to say. But whatever, I said I was going to judge people as a group.

But I don't do groups, Tucker. I'm married to one who's wonderful, and she's the anomaly. But everybody else who didn't believe the feminist stuff is like, I really kind of like to raise my own kids. Like, isn't that why I'm on earth? Is there anything more important than that?

Most women want that. And if you deny them that and tell them that it's liberation, you're sick. And by the way, go fight our wars for us.

Really? Because I thought, call me crazy, the only reason we have wars is to protect our women and children from being hurt. Wasn't that the truth? So some foreigner doesn't rape my wife or take my children into bondage. I thought that was the whole point.

And by the way, every other war in human history has been fought for that reason. But all of a sudden, we're like, hey, girls, go defend us. I just find it contemptible. And it doesn't mean that the women who do it are contemptible. I know a lot of them, and they're great people. And most of them are from military families, actually, who admire their dad, and they go do it. And I love them, and I'm not criticizing them personally. I'm criticizing at all, or devaluing their service at all.

I'm merely criticizing a society that would allow that. And the last thing I'll say before I give the speeches, I was in Iraq in 2003. I'd advocated for that war, and I really thought it was a good idea. And I was meeting with this general in the green zone, and he goes, this amazing thing happened today. And they're all horrible. The generals are all like effeminate and weird and deceptive. And this guy goes, it's amazing.

We're at dinner. He's like, I was with this woman today. She's a whatever, enlisted army. And she had her legs blown off. And amazingly, her husband was there, and it was such a touching moment. She died.

But to see her service and to see the fact he could be there to watch his wife die, their kids are obviously stateside. And I'm like, I was like, did you just tell me a mother, an American mother of children had her legs blown off? Let's just stop there. That's disgusting. And any society that doesn't think it's disgusting is not a society I want to live in or whose values I share. That's just disgusting. Don't hurt women, period.

And I grew up in an all-male household, and that was rule one. Protect women. They're not here to get in bar fights on your behalf or to defend your country. They're here to be protected. That's your job. That's your only job is to protect women and care for them and love them. And if we're celebrating some woman getting her legs blown off because it's some sort of like statement about something in a war that turned out to be completely pointless and bad for us, you're a freak, okay? And I got in a yelling match with this general in the restaurant in the green zone, and I've never forgotten it, and I've been angry about it ever since.

The same morality or lack thereof allows women in sports to be terrorized by men. It's the same exact thing. The same exact thing. So, Tucker, kind of in closing here, you have the Tucker Carlson Network. You've had... Is that not what it's called? No, I've just gone off. I've just gone so crazy that I hope I can reel it back a little bit for the speech, but excuse me. Oh, I have a lot more. This isn't being recorded, is it?

No, of course not. The cameras are there just for... I'm not sure why they didn't... You've had a 2023 you wouldn't have predicted. Oh, yeah. That's the cool thing about life.

You think everything that tomorrow is a pure extrapolation from today, current trends will continue. And it's like, no, you get killed in a car crash, you win the lotto, you get fired from the job you thought you were gonna have forever. It's all kind of awesome because it reminds you of how totally powerless you are and all this stuff like, I'm the master of my own destiny. Oh, shut up, fool. You're not the master of your own laundry room.

This is stupid. It's like, what? You don't have control over your life and the best you can do is the best you can do and that's it. And so many things happen to you.

And that is the one... Getting up three times to take a leak of Molyneux is the downside. But the upside of middle age is you really get that. You just clapped. Okay, you know. But no, that's the upside is you're like, no, I'm not in charge of my life or the world, you know? And that's great. That's liberating.

Well, Tucker, I know I speak for our audience here. Thank you for your courage and thank you for everything that you are doing for our country. Thank you. God bless you. Thanks so much for listening. Everybody, email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com.

Thanks so much for listening and God bless. Everyone's differences. Dividing the elves and getting them all riled up. And don't get me started about the reindeer rights elves. The shop floor just isn't the happy little place it used to be. We should have used Red Balloon.

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