What will ACC identity look like?

Earlier this week in Winston-Salem, the National Sports Media Association handed out their awards, including state-level awards that they do every year, to the best sports caster and sports writer in each state, as voted on by, I guess, members of the National Sports Media Association. This year's winner for Sports Writer of the Year has been doing it for a long time here in North Carolina, and his good friend, his name is Andrew Carter. He joins us now from the News & Observer, your 2022 Sports Writer of the Year. Andrew, what's going on, man? Hey, my friend.

And that award's certainly not voted upon by readers. But I am well. Thank you for having me, Hayes. Appreciate the introduction.

Hope you are great, too. I find it interesting, you mentioned that, and I can only think, because Josh Goodson, earlier on the show, we were going over over-under win totals for next year, and now this has become, and I think you wear this, Von, because you're like, here's a guy who puts opinions out there, right? And like, I don't even think he really meant this as a jab, but he was like, where do you want to start, Hayes? You know, is there anywhere else to start but the best program in the state, up at App State? So yeah, it was about a little later than a year ago, it was like September a year ago, where you declared and wrote a great story about App State being the best program in the state. You defended it, because they play on a different level, there's different ways to judge it, it is a subjective thing, and you got a lot of feedback on that one, so I'm guessing you're thinking those weren't the people voting on best sports writer. But if you were a sports radio guy, you did the job perfectly.

The job is to generate takes, right? Yeah, it is, and it's interesting that you bring up that particular thing I wrote, because to me it's very indicative of just like the state of sports media, and how things are consumed, and sort of what resonates, and what people remember. You know, because my role at the NNO right now, most of the time, probably 85-90% of my time is spent on pursuing these larger enterprise stories, things that I spend days or weeks reporting. And yeah, granted during the football season, I would put together like a weekly sort of column type thing, like a reactions type piece focused on North Carolina, the ACC, also App State ECU.

And yeah, I think I wrote that after App had defeated Texas A&M on the road, and wrote that, and I believed it, I still believe it. It was sort of this pound for pound argument, doing more with less, maximizing your potential. You know, but I didn't spend a ton of time on it. I wrote it in maybe an hour or two, and it took off and generated all this conversation and response. You know, I'm sitting here being like, you know, guys, it's been weeks doing some of these pieces that no one pays attention to. I'm writing pieces about how sports is like saving the lives of teenagers in Kinston, North Carolina.

They're like using it to get out, and it's transformative. Right, and I care about those deeper stories, and very thankful for the opportunities I have at the NNO to tell those more important things. You know, it's like people remember just like the quick hit stuff that makes them mad, and I'm not sure that's the healthiest thing for journalism, or readers, or whatever.

No, you're right. It is what it is, as they say. That's the sign that we're doomed when like, you know, somebody can give you like the front line, here's what things look like in Ukraine.

I've been there for six months, I risked my life, and here's what it looks like. And the same day, somebody can be like, it's a hot dog sandwich, and like the internet will choose to go, oh yeah, we want hot dog. Sorry, this is the direction we're going with it. You're exactly right. That's the perfect encapsulation of kind of where we're at.

It's a little scary. Hey, I did notice one of the themes, and obviously if we're technically talking about your award-winning stuff, that would be from 2022 when you got the award. But just in general, the theme of your writing over the past six months to a year or so, I see a recurring theme of the changing face of college athletics. Particularly because college sports has been the bedrock of North Carolina athletics, even much more so than professional sports historically, even though obviously that's changed. And now college athletics is changing. You talked specifically about Wake Forest and how even when they're succeeding, what does success mean in a changing college landscape where dollars and eyeballs can be the number one things. You talked to the different ADs about how they're all approaching it. And even going back to the ACC tournament, you talked about how the ACC basketball used to be, I remember Sports Illustrated saying next to the Masters, their ACC tournament tickets were the toughest ticket in sport.

And obviously that changed that exact same thing. And so all of those things kind of have the theme of what's changing in college athletics. Is there a theme to the things that you find continually that people are most worried about or that are changing the fastest in college athletics? Yeah, I think if I were to put my finger on it, I think it's this general unease, general sense of sort of what matters.

I think you described it perfectly, just their haze. In sports in North Carolina, the bedrock of it has been college athletics. And so much of it in North Carolina, it's about rivalries, it's about the shared connection that we all have as North Carolinians. The Duke-UNC rivalry is sort of a good example of like, yeah, that matters.

It's a huge deal. I know it matters a great deal among those fan bases, but North Carolina, it's the UNC-MC state rivalry. In terms of alums, far and away you have the greatest percentage of alums are UNC state alums and football. That game matters more than any other college football game in the state, and yet we're in a world now where it's like UNC is being talked about, and rightfully so. I recognize the brand power of UNC athletics, Michael Jordan, the legacy of Dean Smith, Rory Williams, you go on and on. That's a national college athletics brand, I get it. But to be in a world in which we think realistically that UNC could go off into the SEC, the Big Ten, and be separated, even from Duke, because Duke doesn't have that football prowess, but especially from NC State. Because State's not being talked about among one of those schools that's going to have a landing spot. What does that do to the sporting culture of North Carolina?

I wonder about that. Wake Forest, I wrote a story recently that you referenced about the fact that in terms of winning, in terms of on-the-field results, Wake has a more recent ACC football championship than both UNC and NC State. Wake recently, during the ACC championship game, they foiled NC State's hopes many a time to get there, and they could be left without a place at the table if things shake out the way that we expect. If there's a 40 or 48, 2 league, super confederation of college athletics, whatever you want to call it. And so there's fear out there about how all this stuff manifests, how all of it trickles down, how does it affect the ECUs, the app states of the world. It reiterates to me the perception and reality that college athletics is just kind of rudderless.

It doesn't really have a leader, there's nobody looking out for the greater interest of the enterprise. And if you're somebody who grew up in North Carolina, like the both of us did, Hayes, you've got to be concerned about the direction of this. I mean, do you want to see UNC in Nebraska playing, or do you want to see UNC Iowa, or UNC whoever in the Big Ten, or UNC Missouri, Arkansas in the SEC more than you want to see annual games between UNC and NC State?

I think not. So I think if you're concerned about college athletics in North Carolina, just be concerned about the state of where things are going, I think, if you're a college sports fan. Andrew Carter of the News & Observer joining us, he is the 2022 winner of the North Carolina Sportswriter of the Year as awarded by the National Sports Media Association.

I know that when you're reporting, you're talking to people, you're bringing some of the history, reporting what's happening in the now, you can do smart work that way. It's harder to make predictions, and that's why probably in sports radio we do it because it's like a dumber form of media, but in doing all your talking and looking where the landscape is, do you have a prediction of where things might be going in the next couple years? And I'm talking specifically about, like I talked with Chip Patterson yesterday about how long, you know, the NIL thing is shifting, and even that feels like we're kind of on quicksand, you know, that it's not going to stay the same. Do you have any predictions as to college athletes getting paid if that's something that might be coming sooner rather than later, and what effect that might have on college sports? Either creating a, maybe recognizing full on there's going to be a group of college athletes, maybe just the ones that play football in the Big Ten and the SEC, I don't know, but that we will officially call professional athletes who are just playing at the college level? Yeah, I think that model is coming, and you look back at how NIL started, and how we reached this point with NIL, that really started with a legal case in California. You know, California was the first state that allowed athletes that right, and then you saw sort of a domino effect where other states subsequently through their state legislatures allowed the same legal rights to athletes in those states to pursue the same opportunities commercially to endorse brands and this and that. And now, you know, it's kind of fitting that in California you see a very similar case, not the same but a similar case, that if it goes the plaintiff's way would lead to athletes being considered employees.

I do think there are some fundamental differences. I think in this case, there's a lot more of the nitty-gritty to be worked out. I don't see a scenario where, similar to NIL, basically the NCAA throws up its hands and is like, okay, everyone's an employee who competes in college athletics.

I think there are some steps that are going to have to happen and an evolution, but I think that's the direction that we're headed. And then we're going to be left with a scenario in which different schools kind of have to decide what to do, because depending on your budget, depending on your endowment, your donor basis and that, like that's a lot of money for some schools, especially in this era of athletic directors making millions, coaches, etc. Some schools just might find it, I'm not going to say impossible because I think that's a lie, but it's going to really stretch the budgets of schools that they have to pay athletes. And are you paying all athletes?

Are you paying football players and basketball players more because they generate the most money? These are all questions I think that are going to be settled in the next few years, but I do wonder, and this is hinting at another story I'm working on, whether a school in the so-called Power Five kind of throws up its hands and is like, this isn't for us. I think about a Stanford, just because of the academic reputations, I think of places like Northwestern, Duke, even Awake Forest. I think that would be a very difficult choice. I don't really see a Duke or Awake especially being like, this isn't for us because they're too invested in it.

But I do think those conversations are going to be happening. Stanford's a perfect example. I think they just finished first in the Director's Cup, and I don't know how their football or basketball team did, but I know they didn't do great or I would know more about it. But they pride themselves on, they're competing in almost every sport they're going to be really good at, from tennis to rowing to whatever. And they might say, our athletic program isn't based on money chasing for football, we're going to do it this way.

I think it's feasible. I think about the University of Chicago decision in the 1940s, and granted, that's like an eon. It might as well be ancient history. But I do think that the general principle and logic follows, where it's like you had an elite academic institution at that point in time, being like, you know what, no thanks.

And there are some things happening nowadays that could lead some schools to making a similar call. I know you've written about gambling, we're talking to Andrew Carter of the News and Observer, we're going to get it in North Carolina, the law just passed. My question is, for the average fan, annoying ads are one thing. Obviously we'll get annoying ads, but if we never had beer ads during football games, and then all of a sudden this year, the first year we had beer ads, we'd be like, oh my god, all these beer ads, right? I feel like we just don't notice them because they've always been there, you know?

So we're going to notice them when they come. Other than that, is there a direct effect on the fan experience for gambling? Let's say, average fan that doesn't even want to gamble, is gambling going to ruin sports for the person that just wants to go to the game and watch? No, I don't think so.

Not at all. There's been so many opportunities to gamble anyway. It's sort of been this industry that even though it's been technically illegal in North Carolina, if you really wanted to gamble in North Carolina as a resident, you could find ways to do that.

Whether it's through a person who lives in a state where they can pull up an app on their phone, or whether you have your own Kinect locally. Speaking of that, I remember the story of the folks who ran a ring out of what's present day Mitch's, which I'm sure you're probably familiar with being a Raleigh historian. So the point is, if you wanted to be engaged in that activity, you could have already, and if you didn't, then obviously no one's forcing you to. My concern with that is, I don't know, those concerns that people bring up when they argue against it being legal. You've seen this in the NFL. There was a story yesterday that came out about some players possibly being suspended for the year because of involvement in different activities.

How does this affect the integrity of it? Are athletes pulled into it? If the NCAA wants to get in bed with this stuff, if the leagues want to get in bed with it, it is sort of sanctimonious to me to expect players and athletes not to engage in it whatsoever.

It's that old argument. How can your employer, or your league, or whatever, the NCAA make millions or billions of dollars with these agreements and the commercialization of it, and then you expect the people actually participating not to be involved, I think is a little bit hypocritical. To use my earlier example, can you imagine if right now they'd be like, guys, it's just a bad look to have NFL players drink beer, so you're not allowed to anymore. Oh, so we're not advertising? No, no, no, no.

We're definitely going to keep all of the advertising money. It's just a bad look for you as a player to be doing it, so no, you can't do it anymore. Well put. Final couple questions. Do you own a shaboomie? Hey honey, can we talk?

Of course. What's up? Well, I just thought you should know I've been curious about the new Dr. Pepper Strawberries and Cream. Have you felt this way a long time? No, I just think I'd really like the taste of Dr. Pepper swirled with layers of flavor. If you feel that way, I think you should try it, babe. It's amazing. I mean, you're amazing too. New Dr. Pepper Strawberries and Cream.

The new flavor you deserve. You know, I do not. I appreciate the shaboomie discourse. I saw Jeremy Markovich. I love his stuff. He reposted his shaboomie peach piece from a year or two ago. You're a big shaboomie guy.

Yeah, let me interrupt. There's one thing. He's amended his piece with updated things that have happened with shaboomie. What he hasn't done, and I've pointed this out to Markovich. I got beef with him. He went and found the exact date where the Google search took off, and he said it was like, he took it back to basically a 4th of July weekend.

One weekend where a lot of people would likely leave the beach. There were already a decent number out there, and then they exploded. What he doesn't tell you, and I've pointed out to him, right at that same time that he pinpoints, I could show you a Sports Channel 8 The Radio Show interview with the shaboomie guys on 99.9 The Fan. Independently of knowing that that happened, he declared this is the date it took off, and then I went back and said, yeah, look what else happened on this date. So anyway, sorry, I didn't interrupt, toot my own horn. But yeah, before I throw you out of North Carolina, defend your non-shaboomie ownership.

What's going on here? You know what? I don't know if I'm hip enough, A, and I don't know if I go to the beach enough, man. Like, I'm a mountain guy.

That's fair. I love getting up to the mountains. Look, I get to down to the beach three, four times a year, but never for more than a couple days at a time.

If I'm hitting up either end of North Carolina, I'm going up to the mountains. That's my excuse. If you go to the beach three or four times a year for a couple days at a time, I think that's shaboomie worthy, man. I don't know.

It's a little bit expensive though, is it not? I'm a sports writer, man. Fair enough. I'm not one of those radio guys. Yeah, you know the radio guys are rolling in it.

Life is great for radio guys. Yes, you know how that goes. No, I think it becomes one of those where, like, any other shade option, the price, you may find one at a lower price, but you're probably replacing it, like, much, much, much sooner. I'm good with my umbrella. All right.

The first time you carry it out and set up and you're like, all right, that was kind of legit. And then my last question for you, so that negates my next question, which was how faded is your shaboomie? Your friend and colleague, Luke DeCock, is claiming he's got, like, basically an all-white shaboomie.

That's how old school he is. Well, Luke has never invited me to the beach, so I wouldn't know. If you're listening out there, Luke, I expect that to change at some point soon. I think he might be at the beach now, so he's not listening, but we will rest him off the beach tomorrow to join us for the show from the beach for an annual, maybe even an under the shaboomie interview. My last question for you, how long is the hair, Andrew Carter? My hair is long, man.

I got the flow going. You know, it's sort of resplendent right now. It's in the resplendent stage, but the resplendent stage precedes the looking as though I'm unhoused stage.

So, the days are numbered for it. That plus beard has to be a lot in the humidity right now. Like, when it's cold, I definitely feel the lack of hair. So, when it's hot, I feel like you gotta be feeling the excess hair.

I mean, it feels like I'm walking around town with, like, a wet dog on top of my scalp a little bit. So, at some point soon, I'm gonna have to take care of this, but right now, it's good. He is the...

I got one more mountain trip, and then maybe there will be time. Alright, there you go. He is the North Carolina Sportswriter of the Year for 2022. Got that award this week in Winston-Salem at the National Sports Media Association Awards. And you can find his work at the News and Observer. Always writing on great topics, college athletics, what it's like being a recruit, gambling, topical stuff, deep dive, all kinds of cool stuff. Keep up the great work, and great to talk to you, as always, my man. Thanks for having me, brother. Thanks so much.