An NFL Game will be played today // Jason Reid, Andscape

This is the Best of the Adam Gold Show Podcast brought to you by Coach Pete at Capital Financial Advisory Group.

Visit us at capitalfinancialusa.com. I'm in there on a Friday night, mad that the people drinking and, you know, meeting people to go home with are like jostling me while I'm trying to win my seventh straight NBA jam. Cruz Lucious, future Wisconsin Badger and crusher of all things. You like that. He's just going to crush a lot of things and you can decide what they are. I might be talking about video games. He might be crushing video games. That might be what I mean.

Maybe. You don't know. I just said he's going to crush a lot of things. He's going to crush a lot.

This is the Adam Gold Show. Is Cruz Lucious in town? When does Prospect Camp start for the Kings?

They already had it. So he came and went? Yeah. He kept things under wraps? Yeah, I did not explore Cornerstone. You know what?

A bar got shut down on Glenwood. Maybe Cruz Lucious had something to do with that. He crushed it. I can't even think of the name of it. It's one of the ones that was making a lot of noises. Making a lot of noise and a lot of noises apparently. Was it alchemy?

No, it wasn't alchemy. But then they went and looked and they were being way too loud on the roof and stuff. And somebody went and was like, dude, they don't have permits to do any of this stuff. So they got totally shut down. Like they don't have the roof permit.

So maybe Cruz Lucious got a little too loud and shut down the party at a bar. I don't know. I was hoping you would play the opener that said, you know, I think I'd say this. I'm going to be back in August. And if when I come back, ACC teams have gone to the Big Ten, I'll eat it. Okay?

Yeah. I gave it a month, but I'm back. And I don't see any ACC teams leaving. However, we do have large conference realignment news. I know you hit it yesterday.

You broke it yesterday. But a university in this state, in North Carolina, is leaving its longtime conference for another conference. It's Campbell, the Fighting Campbells. They're going to the Colonial, which also has had ties to North Carolina. And North Carolina A&T will be one of the other teams that goes with them to the Colonial.

In about 15 minutes from now, we'll talk to the acting athletic director, Hannah Bazemore of Campbell about that move. UNC Wilmington already in the CA. UNC Wilmington is in the Colonial. Is Elon in the Colonial?

I forget. I believe they are in the Colonial right now. So a large presence for North Carolina in the Colonial and Campbell adds to that. Campbell has raised the profile of their athletics over the past few years, including stepped up in football, the amount they're playing. During the pandemic, they were one of the schools that were like, we're in and if you need a game, we'll play you. Because they were on ESPN a couple times. It was very cool.

Elon, yes, member. In the Colonial. So a strong presence for the Colonial Athletic Association in North Carolina now grows. Again, we'll talk to Hannah Bazemore in just about 10 minutes. Since we'll be doing that, we only got a little bit of time to talk some sports here at the top of the show. Let's jump out of the gate.

There's only one place to start. It may only be August 3rd. I remember when this game one time happened. It's August 4th? It may only be August 4th.

August 4th. I remember when this game happened July 31st one time and I was like, now this is just gosh darn ridiculous playing football in July. But we all know the Hall of Fame game always comes ridiculously early. It's even before like whatever the technically first preseason game is. So yes, tonight we've got the Jaguars and the Raiders. I cannot believe the football season starts tonight.

The road to the Super Bowl begins in Canton tonight. I mean none of the good players are playing. Raiders, Jags, you're not going to see Trevor Lawrence.

You might see like Devontae Adams for a play, but not a lot. It's the Hall of Fame game. It's not a real football game. We're just going to call it a football game so we can have the Hall of Fame. Are we saying sports are back now? Because once the NHL playoffs and the NBA playoffs were done, we said sports were done. Sports were done for about a month and a half. That's it.

Now they're fully back. It's football season. Football is on. This weekend there's probably a college game somewhere. I don't know, it's like week negative two. Somebody, if ESPN will pay you, you will play a game on August 6th. Trust me. The NFL tonight. Here's, let me see if I can interest you in any of this. Let's go straight to the source. The NFL.com says four things to watch for the 2022 Hall of Fame game.

Will you be watching for any of these things? Josh McDaniels visits home. Is he the head coach of the Raiders?

Yes, yes he is. Let's call him the head coach of the Raiders. He's taking the first steps of his head, of his first head coaching job in more than a decade.

Really, that's what you're selling? That's your number one thing to get me interested in this game is to see Josh McDaniels coach for the first time in 10 years? You know, I want to see how he manages the clock.

How does he use his timeouts? You know what he did the last time he coached? You know who he was coaching the last time he coached? The Broncos with Tim Tebow. You put Tim Tebow in a Raiders uniform and let him throw a quarterback tonight? Play quarterback tonight? He probably wouldn't throw. He'd play quarterback.

I would watch that. I would watch Tebow. I wouldn't be rooting for or against him, but I would just be rooting for all the drama that Tim Tebow playing in a preseason game. What's Tim Tebow doing that he can't come out and play for Josh McDaniels tonight?

This game is a farce and just a spectacle anyway. Why not put Tim Tebow? Isn't it about the time where he's in training camp somewhere so that we can have like, you know, two days of ESPN headlines about whether or not Tim Tebow can play in the NFL?

Claim fullback this time. Tim Tebow should be full-time Hall of Fame quarterback. Like he should play for one team in the Hall of Fame game every year. It would make everyone so happy. They would get to see Tim Tebow. He would get the columns and then they could put him in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. That would make those people happy too. He's literally a Hall of Fame quarterback.

We were solving problems. Tim Tebow, who can we get to be the other quarterback? That's what we need. Maybe a Manning?

I don't know. Like if a Manning would do it, and we got another Manning coming, so like all we gotta do is get Peyton and Eli to pass it back and forth for about 10 years and then we can throw that other Manning in there. A Manning on one side, Tim Tebow on the other. Alright.

Here's the number two thing that you should get excited about for Raiders-Jags. Canton becomes Luttonland? I don't even know who this is. Jake Lutton. Luton, I believe. Luton, who will likely get a healthy share of reps Thursday night and need to capitalize on the exposure in order to beat out Kyle Sloater for the third job behind Trevor Lawrence and C.J. Bethard.

Is that enough to introduce you? The third string quarterback contest on the Jaguars is the number two thing to watch tonight. Is it like loser leaves town match? Is that what we're getting tonight? Loser leaves town, you're going to the XFL.

You gotta go to a new territory. Tim Tebow should have been playing instead of these guys. Number three, new faces everywhere. That's what I'm excited for Jags.

Coach Doug Peterson, no. And what's the number four thing we're supposed to watch? Finally, football has returned.

Because that's the truth. They just know, they just know we call it NFL football, we turn it on, and you will watch. This game will probably, I can't wait for the NFL heads to be like, this game got better ratings than three of the NBA Finals games.

Like, whatever. It's because there's nothing else on. A Hall of Fame game is tonight. If you, there's always part of me, because I am also a football, football sicko is a little bit just in American DNA, right? Even if you don't truly like American football that much, something about being an American, especially one who grew up for me in the 80s and 90s, it's like, well, I mean, I might, I might sneak a peek. I might watch a play just to see football lined up. It's been a while, you know? But no, I don't have any interest in this game.

I apologize. Preseason in general, I've said this, this goes across the board on sports for me. I need stakes. I need some sort of stakes. In the Hall of Fame game, there just aren't enough stakes. You can bet on it.

Well, that may make the, no, no, no. The only, if you want to bet on it, that's fine. But you are a degenerate gambler.

You want to define it? So when you start picking props for the Hall of Fame game, you are a degenerate gambler. I may or may not have a futures bet already out on this game. Sure.

I'll add to it. Next up, getting out of the gate. The actual NFL news that everyone's talking about. You know, you know why they like to play a football game in the middle of the summer? Because they're like, you know what, there's probably some headlines we'd like to erase with some actual football. And the league has put itself in an interesting position. Now, many people are, I won't say applauding the move because applause seems like the wrong word here. But many people called for the NFL to do what they have done, and that is announce that they are appealing the six game suspension that was handed down to Deshaun Watson. Now, I purposefully, partly because I was at the beach last week, and partly because it's summer, and partly just because I don't watch sports to get into all the discussions about punishment stuff. I have mostly stayed away from paying attention to this.

But here are a couple observations that I can give you. One, I'm not saying it was the wrong move to bring in a former federal judge to start ruling on these cases. The ESPN was trying, the NFL was trying to set up a situation where it looks like a third party is making decisions because people were calling on Roger Goodell and saying, you're playing judge and jury, and you're basically picking punishments by what's good for your league, not what the punishment should actually be.

So they outsource it, they give it to a third person. The only problem with a former retired federal judge is that one, they're coming at it from a very legalese perspective. And that's exactly what the judge did. The judges like to say that they're not writing the laws, they're just interpreting them as they are written. And so this judge made a legal interpretation when people were like, no, that's not what we want you to do. We want you to rule against the things that we think are terribly, egregiously wrong and bad for society, and not let men get away with terrible things against women and then go turn around and get paid for it. And judges like to be tied to actual constraints, interpreting the law, like I'm not making a decision based on what I think, I'm making a decision based on the things that you have told me that I should use to evaluate.

So it didn't surprise me when that sort of, you know, how the judge ruled. But now, the NFL has put itself in a situation where they really can't win. Roger Goodell has the authority to basically appeal this decision and rule on his own on what Deshaun Watson's punishment could be. It sounds like the two big things they don't like are that Watson seems to have not shown much remorse and that knowing that this was coming, he got this huge contract that was basically structured to not punish him that much in this year where they planned for him not to play very much, and that he's still going to get paid on the back end because there's no real substantial fine other than missed games. Which again, they structured it being like, you're probably going to miss these games, so we're going to make these games not cost as much as these games.

Yeah, we're just going to do a million dollar salary this season. So the catch-22 is, if Roger Goodell goes against the third party ruling and puts in a more harsh punishment, it seems to appease the side of people that would like to see more done for Deshaun Watson, which I totally understand. But then it also seems like, well then you have the authority to just do that every time, which is like, why didn't you do that before and why do you need the third party person? If you truly are going to give us stronger rulings, which is the thing we were asking for, actual punishments, actual teeth for violations that are bad on their face, and now more and more are bad for the league's bottom line, which is really what matters for them, why not just do that from the beginning?

Why do you have to bring in a third party? Adam Schefter talked about what the NFL is looking for with their appeal. They want it to be for a long period of time, and if the league has its choice, we will not see Deshaun Watson play football this season, and we will have to see him apply for reinstatement once he's met the conditions, once he's received treatment to address his behavioral questions, the NFL will want to go hard. They didn't go ahead and appeal this with the idea that they could take six to eight, or six to nine, or six to ten, they went from six to taking him off the field indefinitely. But again, the league is damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they don't change the punishment, people will go back to their original arguments, which are very sound of like, why is the dude smoking weed, getting all these games, and the dude that sexually abused multiple, multiple, multiple dozens of women, only getting six, and if he does change the punishment, then it's back to, why can't we just do that every time?

You were saying your hands are tied, and you didn't make the decision, but now you're putting it in your hands to make the decision, so I don't know, it'll be interesting, and we'll see where it ends up. We'll talk to Bridget Condon a little bit later in the show, we'll ask her a little bit about that, and she's been visiting some training camps, so we'll talk some actual football with Bridget as well. Bottom of the hour, we'll talk to Jason Reed about the rise of the black quarterback, and we'll talk about how this situation fits into that discussion as well. Adam Gold here from My Man, Coach Pete DeRuta with the Capital Financial Advisory Group, we are talking retirement.

Alright Coach, simple. When do we start tax planning in retirement? We should start as soon as possible, because here's one thing, Adam, taxes are not going away. And so the game here is, we know the rules, a lot of people want to ignore the rules or act like they aren't familiar with them, but the IRS knows the rules. And so when we get to retirement, they're going to reach in and start taking some of their money out of your accounts. So the secret here is to put a force field around as much as possible by strategically moving some of our money to Roth IRA or some of the other vehicles that aren't taxed, like special life insurance policies.

You can borrow against your money there and never have to pay tax on your money that you build up inside your cash value. So there are a lot of strategies here, the one strategy that does not work is ignoring it. So let's make sure to not ignore it, the next 10 people will do for you your very own tax and retirement plan that will help you minimize taxation all the way through retirement. 800-661-7383, all you got is call or you can text Adam to 21000 for Coach Pete DeRuta. Next up, getting out of the gate, the PGA Tour is in town, baby. I don't know how many states have multiple PGA Tour stops, can't be that many, right?

I mean, off the top of your head, you get states bigger than North Carolina, like Texas, California, Florida, they probably got a couple, right? But like, there can't be too many that have two every year, including the Wyndham Championship, the old Greater Greensboro Open that Sam Snead won eight times. Kevin Kisner is your defending champ, he won the six-man playoff last year. Recent winners include Brent Snedeker, Sergio Garcia, Patrick Reed, Henrik Stitt, basically a bunch of live golf guys have won this event. There is Webb Simpson, hometown favorite, who won the Wyndham, got his first win there, and then named his kid Wyndham, so respect that.

Of course, we'll be cheering for Webb and any of the local guys there. One person who I will definitely be cheering for at the Wyndham Championship is a guy who's a Monday qualifier named Blake McShea. He's a Q qualifier, he's playing the Greater Greensboro Open, now called the Wyndham Championship. But Blake McShea's home club is my home course, baby, the Zebulun Country Club. Probably the course I've played, other than my family vacation spot, more than any other because it's out near Five County Stadium where I go to do Mudcats games. I love the ZCC, and I play it many, many times, so shout out to Blake McShea, I hope he does well in the Wyndham.

He's been the club champion at ZCC for many, many times, and I hope he goes out there and crushes it. Love to see North Carolina dudes doing North Carolina things. Speaking of North Carolina things, as we mentioned at the top of the show, we have major conference realignment news. It might not be the conference realignment news that has been rumored and that has been much talked about since we saw Southern Cal and UCLA go from the Pac-12 to the Big Ten, but it is big nonetheless. And it continues the trend of the growth of athletics down in Harnett County at Campbell University over the past few years. Joining us now to discuss the move of Campbell from the Big South Conference to the Colonial Athletic Association is the Acting Athletic Director, Hannah Bazemore. Hannah, how are you doing?

Thanks so much for joining us. I'm doing great. How are you?

I'm doing well. I got a couple questions for you, but let's start with just the most obvious one as you make this jump. Why was the Colonial Athletic Association the right fit for the future of Campbell Athletics?

Great question. I think with the success that we've had recently and kind of where we are and what's happened with us over the past five or ten years, it's kind of that natural step. I mean, athletically, yes, it's a challenge, but it's one I think we're ready for and I'm really excited to see how we prepare and show up for that.

Hannah Bazemore joining us. I said you are Acting Athletic Director. Obviously, you have worked with the program for a long time now and seen all different parts inside the program. So even though you are kind of new in the role that you're in, you're very long in years working for Campbell Athletics. But I do have to ask, has it been a flurry of a month for you being named that Acting Athletic Director and then obviously jumping right into some discussions that resulted in a change in conference? Yeah, it has. I've been at Campbell, like you said, for about 12 years and I served as an administrator at that time. So while this transition happened, it was pretty smooth.

But yeah, we've done a lot in a very short amount of time. Alright, one question I have for you that I think fans are interested in because it's been one of those summers where conference realignment is in the discussion. And that matters whether or not your team is actively moving, you're still wondering who your neighbors are going to be, who from your conference might be moving. And this involves all levels, not just the Power Five level, but we've seen North Carolina A&T has made recent moves, Elon has moved conferences, East Carolina always talks about how it might involve them, the dominoes.

My bigger question is, where do you even begin to find out about potential conference moves? Is there an app? I am joking, but I don't mean this.

I'm kind of serious. Is it like a dating app? Is there a place where athletic directors and conferences can all talk and say, hey, who's looking for somebody, we might be looking for a move? How do those discussions even get started?

That's a good question. I think me being new to this role, I'm not sure what behind the scenes conversations happened. I just know that we received that official invitation towards the end of June and quickly wanted to respond. That's kind of, I'm not sure what's happened behind the scenes up until this point.

I got you. Hannah Baysmore joining us, athletic director of Campbell University. But okay, I'll put it this way. Do you, and I'm not trying to get you to reveal any confidence or anything, but how do you know, if the Colonial Athletic sends you an invitation, do you weigh it against, hey, are there any other conferences out there right now that we could be interested in joining? And do we want to explore that before we make this jump? How are those discussions going?

How do you decide, well, we've got this all for now, but we need to look at what the rest of the landscape is like right now? I'm not really sure how to answer that. I just know what was presented to us and we vetted it, you know, pretty in-depth for 30 days and decided that, you know, this was the right move for us at this time. What's been the driving force behind growth of Campbell Athletics? We talked to Mike Mentor over the years when he was the, as a football coach, we talked specifically about the growth of that sport. We talked about the opportunities in the pandemic where Campbell was sort of out there saying, you know, we'll play anybody.

They were on TV. Is it the university saying, hey, we see benefit in athletics and the growth of athletics sort of using it as that front porch of the university to draw people in? Why are they continuing going down a road of growing their athletic programs and joining a bigger conference? Yeah, I absolutely think we're the front porch for this and the beauty of this is the support from the top has been phenomenal. So from all of the administration at Campbell, and I think that's been a big driver and support to provide the resources to really elevate and see how far we can grow this thing. Also, support from the community donors, fans.

I mean, it's been pretty neat to be a part of the success here and how we've seen it grow. And now, you know, the commitment to pour in and see where we can go in CAA. What's the first thing that you do after joining a new conference? Is it calling the other conference athletic directors?

Is it scheduling tours? Is it looking like what you're gonna have to do to start scheduling to get things ready? What are the first steps that happen for an athletic department after you accept the bid to a new conference?

Well, for me, number one, it was just taking one deep breath. I think next steps for us is this year is going to be a planning year. I think we're going to have to really dive into what we need. You know, I think we're going to have to look at some scheduling.

So really, the planning is going to be the biggest, but first and foremost, we're going to need to be a part of some scheduling conversations. Hannah Bay is more joining us. She's the athletic director at Campbell. As far as I know, I don't know of any other camels out there in college. Are you guys the only camel mascot or do you ever run up against somebody else?

I think we're the only division one. Okay. Because I feel like as much as the status of the athletic program is elevated, I believe the camel mascot is rightfully and should continue to be elevated. I need to see more Campbell's gear out there and I love it every time they're in a broadcast.

I don't know. I'm a big Campbell's fan. Do you have a lot of camel gear having been a graduate and now worked with the program for so long? I do.

I have a whole separate closet in my house of nothing but camel gear. It's a unique mascot, but I think we have some opportunity to even capitalize more on that and do some really unique things coming up. Is it too obvious to look at the other North Carolina schools in the Colonial Athletic Association and feel like they probably had an impact in Campbell's decision? Is it establishing rivalries now with the Elons and the UNCW's and North Carolina A&T's of the world?

Absolutely. We've had a decade-long rivalry with UNCW in several sports and I think being able to take that one to the next level is another big reason why this move makes sense for us. But I think also Elon, A&T, deepening those regional rivalries and in-state rivalries, I think is going to be really important and exciting.

I think it's going to be something exciting to see. Hannah Baysmore, Acting Athletic Director of the Fighting Campbell's of Campbell University, now or not officially now, they have officially accepted an invitation to begin as a member of the Colonial Athletic Association beginning next year. Thanks so much for the time. Congratulations on getting to where you get to take that deep breath and best of luck in jumping in with all the work in front of you.

Thank you so much. Very cool. Campbell has had a great athletic program. For people who are from North Carolina, people know that Campbell basketball camp was like this super cool, super well-known historic thing.

Then Campbell's always had a great golf program, great golf maintenance program. They've always had a great baseball program culminating this year. I believe they didn't have a first-round draft pick for the first time ever. And they were in the NCAA Baseball Tournament. Once again, they've been good at basketball at times. They've had runs, they've had a couple good players. And then like we said, their football program has taken steps forward along the way. So a, I don't know if we say a budding powerhouse down there at Campbell.

But no, it'll be interesting to see them now and get to play a lot of their schedule against other teams in the region like UNCW, Elon, North Carolina A&T. So a great day for Campbell and congratulations to all the people that made that happen. It's got to be crazy being named the athletic director like six weeks ago or whatever it was and then dealing with the conference movement. But those things don't, those discussions don't stop and wait for your, you know, new hires and things to get caught up.

Like you got to go when the time is right. And so the Campbell's are jumping to the CAA. Joining us now to talk a little NFL, but mostly talk about his book, The Rise of the Black Quarterback. It is Jason Reed of ESPN and landscape. You can follow him on quarterback. You can follow him on Twitter at Jay Reed, ESPN. We're here to talk quarterbacks. Jason, thanks so much for joining us on the show. Appreciate it. Hey, thank you for having me.

Hey, I want to tie in. I'm going to talk specifically about your book, but obviously the headline topic right now is Deshaun Watson and what his suspension, six game suspension that's being appealed by the NFL. My question for you when you watching an issue like this, having done the research in writing your book and knowing the back history of black quarterbacks and black athletes in general. What do you do you think of a different angle than the rest of us when you see Deshaun Watson, black quarterback going through whatever the NFL justice system, knowing that oftentimes that justice system is looked not just in the NFL to be fair, but in sports in general.

Obviously, it looks different for white people, black people, but that is included the the justice and punishment system and the things that come after justice. Do you, do you watch the Deshaun Watson with any of that in mind as you see it going down? Uh, no, I do not.

Let me tell you why. Um, look, things have never been better for black quarterbacks in the NFL. They have attained a once unfathomable position of power and stature within the league. You know, they, they have the biggest contract. They're superstars leading teams.

Um, so no, I, I don't, I don't look at this at all. Like a situation like, you know, we find, you know, potentially in the fifties and the, and we'll definitely in the fifties and before that. Um, and one of the great markers of progress for me is that Deshaun Watson's situation is Deshaun Watson's situation. It in no way cast a shadow over Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson or Russell Wilson or Dak Prescott.

And that really is an example of how things have moved forward. Now, listen, listen, as far as the Deshaun Watson situation goes, um, I am not surprised at all that the NFL filed the appeal. Um, I think from an optics standpoint, the league had to, because there is such a public outcry about the fact that Drew Robinson, the disciplinary officer appointed by the league and the NFLPA only, and I say only in the context of people wanted more, only gave him six games with no fine. Now, under the NFL personal conduct policy, personal conduct policy, excuse me. I understand how she got to that point. Um, you know, this is what she felt she could do. And there was, and the evidence in her mind didn't warrant going deeper than this, but the league had to appeal this because the reality of it is the, the public sentiment around this, if the NFL hadn't appealed the situation, I think the NFL would really be taking a lot of heat, a lot more heat than it already has.

Sure. Jason Reed joining us, talking some headlines, but also talking about his book, The Rise of the Black Quarterback and What It Means for America. I want to concentrate on the second part, What It Means for America. I did some work with Bamani Jones about a decade ago, and we put together a piece where he was talking about the night that Doug Williams beat the Broncos in the Super Bowl.

And it's something that I had never experienced as a white man. He talks about, I remember the old heads talking about going to work the next day and how excited they were that a black quarterback, and not just one, but thrived. So can you talk about, I'm sure you focus on, you named the names of quarterbacks, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, you know, and others that are, Russell Wilson that are playing right now. And I know, I'm sure, I know your book focuses a lot on those guys specifically, but looking at the, What It Means for America part, I'm curious how much your book talks about the, the parallel between the black quarterback and just in general black acceptance by this white America. Oh man, you just, you just laid out the whole book.

We can end the interview right now. I'm so happy you said that because look, I want to set out to just write, not to do anything wrong with just a sports book or just a rather a book that primarily focuses on, on the field, but that's not what I wanted to do. I wanted to explain the cultural significance of black men who were denied historically in the NFL access or the opportunity to compete for the top position, the most important position in team sports and what that meant. See, black men were considered inherently, excuse me, inherently inferior. And so if black men could not rise to play the most important position in the sport that now dominates American culture, well, what does that say in a, in a, in a bigger sense about black men overall? So, you know, you talked about Bomani and that piece you did with him, that, that game, Doug Williams, miss busting performance in the Super Bowl that year. That was, I mean, I don't want to get to go too far afield here and get too much into hyperbole, but for a lot of people, it was almost a religious experience that black people had been told for so long that you're not good enough. You can't, you can't compete. You can't, you can't keep up with your white counterparts that that game the next morning, you know, I was, I was a young kid at the time, but I remember the same thing, you know, like my uncles were talking about going to work the next day and in the office, the sense of pride, the way they swelled with pride because of that performance.

Because if you are historically among a marginalized group and people, the people in power, the group in power says, you can't do something when, when you do something, when you shack, when you break through another barrier, it changes the whole mindset. Now, there are a lot of people, and I see people in this context, I mean, white people who could have, who ran the league, who could say, well, that was just a one-off, you know, that'll never happen again. But then what we saw as we got deeper into the late eighties, and then we got into the early nineties, you see Warren Moon and Randall Cunningham playing in a way where they're having a success.

So where they're having success. So by the time we get to the late nineteen nineties, we and three black quarterbacks are selected in the first round of the NFL Draft in 1999, Donald McNabb, does Dante call pepper and Akili Smith. And now we see an acknowledgement by the league that, okay, these guys actually can play and they can help us win and make money. So now we're going to, we're going to get them in here and we're going to let them compete and let them play.

Jason Reed from ESPN joining us. Is that, do you consider that 99 draft sort of the turning point? Not that everything was solved then, but was that the one where you look at and you say, all right, if they're spending first round draft picks on these black quarterbacks to play quarterback, then something has changed in this year. There is nothing more important to an NFL franchise than draft capital, and there's nothing more important in draft capital than a first round drafted.

So yeah, totally. Once these teams were willing to say, we're going to spend first round draft picks on these black quarterbacks. And you gotta remember, it wasn't until 1978 that a black quarterback was even taken in the first round of the NFL Draft. That was Doug Williams when he was taken by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Randall Cunningham wasn't a first round drafted. Warren Moon went undrafted. So we get to 1999 and now the NFL is saying, wait a minute, three black quarterbacks go in the first round of the NFL Draft. Well, something is happening here. There's been a sea change and yeah, I look at the 1999 draft as everything before that year and then after that year.

Interesting. Jason Reed joining us from Anscape and ESPN talking about his new book, The Rise of Black Quarterbacks available everywhere. Always encourage you to go to your local bookstore. I'm here in Raleigh, Quail Ridge Books is a great place to get it. But everybody knows what, you know, what the best bookstore in your town is. We're all over North Carolina.

So I can't name check them all, but I go to Quail Ridge here in Raleigh. If you have to get it by Amazon, get it by Amazon, but get a hold of the book. I'm curious, Jason. And again, no one is saying, well, now that we have powerful black quarterbacks, racism in sports has been solved. So I know that that's not what the book says and I don't hear anybody saying that. Are there any, and also you are correct in that the American quarterback has a unique position in sports. You know, Johnny American football quarterback is like a person, a character in America more than any other, you know, sports position is. But I'm curious, are there any answers as to how, or are the reasons that some of these black quarterbacks have a unique position in sports? Are there any answers as to how, or are the reasons that some of these black quarterbacks now have the power they do and have the opportunity they do? Is there anything that would suggest a shift in how things are done in coaching where we still find we're way behind and still have big problems in promoting, keeping, retaining, giving second chances to black coaches the way their white peers get?

Like, is there anything that says, well, if it worked here and the league finally said, all right, these are guys of value, let's treat them as the winning players that they are, that that same approach or whatever same factors that led to that could lead to writing this coaching imbalance that we have? It sounds like you're giving me the idea for my next book. Let's do it. Let's do it. I mean, well, you know what?

If people want to see that book, tell me they got to go out and buy Rise of the Black Quarterback. We're doing our part. We're doing our part. Exactly.

No, but you know, I'm totally with you. Like, you know, at one point in the NFL for black men, quarterback was the frontier. That, that was the place where you said, okay, if we can, if we can get to this point where black players are being given the chance to compete in quarterback, not handed job, but compete for jobs and compete with white quarterbacks.

And if they went out, the best man wins. The black players always felt that if that happened, it would show so much progress in the league and you're absolutely right. We are now at a point where the next frontier is coaching. The NFL has 32 teams. The NFL's on-field workforce, the players, but 58.7% African American.

That total has been as high as 70% a few years back. It's an overwhelmingly black league, but an overwhelmingly black league, there are only three black head coaches out of 32 teams. So yeah, that is the next frontier coaching. And you know, Tony Dungy won a Super Bowl and you know, you have, you have black coaches who have had success, but what it comes down to is, is that there's still a thinking among the team owners, you know, they, they clearly just are not comfortable. And I, and I say this based upon the numbers, they clearly are just not comfortable having black men be in the mix to lead their teams on a, on a, on a greater proportional basis. And that's not to say, I'm not talking about quotas that there has to be nine black head coaches or, or 10 or 15. It's just what black coaches want is look that we, we, they don't want to be given anything, but what they would like to see is just that, Hey, the, the hiring process is completely fair. You know, color is taken out of it as much as, as, as you possibly can and let the best man compete because the argument used to be, well, we can't let black quarterbacks play the position because in the NFL, because you know, there just aren't any good black quarterbacks.

Well, we see that that's not true. And it's the same thing with coaching. Jason Reed from landscape and ESPN. I wish I had more time and I would talk to you about the Carolina Panthers and what we're doing with our quarterback situation. But right now everybody needs to go get the book, the rise of the black quarterback, what it means for America so that we can get that next book.

And our man, Jason could keep it up. We appreciate the time. Congratulations on the book. I know it will be successful. I will not lie to you and tell you I've read it because I'm the filling host and I didn't get the free book that they sent, but I will, I'll be going to quail Ridge and getting me my own copy. I promise to do some beach reading on this one, man. I appreciate it. Congratulations.

I know putting a book together takes a lot of effort. Follow him on Twitter at J read ESPN and follow his work all the time. Following the NFL for landscape and ESPN. We appreciate your time, man.

Hey man, thank you for your time. And from your lips to God's ears on that next book. There we go.

Make it happen. Jason Reed. Again, the book is the rise of the black quarterback. I'm going to call quail Ridge books. And if one of you didn't go in there and buy it today in rally, I'm going to beat somebody up.

I don't know how I'm going to figure out who to beat up regulator over in Durham. Great bookstore. Somebody hit me up on Twitter and tell me what the best bookstore is in Greensboro or Wilmington and I'll shout them out. Acme comics.

Do they have regular books too or just books for little kids with pictures like you? I'm just saying you said comics. And now I'm getting a death stare for the producer. I shouldn't have tried so hard. Now it's either death stare is good because the death stare means he cares. Now, now he's just not even looking at me. He's pretending like a show isn't going on. I've hurt his comic book feelings. That's my bad. That probably means it's time to take a break.

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