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Pro-Life Counselors BRUTALLY BEATEN At Planned Parenthood

Sekulow Radio Show / Jay Sekulow & Jordan Sekulow
The Truth Network Radio
May 31, 2023 1:16 pm

Pro-Life Counselors BRUTALLY BEATEN At Planned Parenthood

Sekulow Radio Show / Jay Sekulow & Jordan Sekulow

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May 31, 2023 1:16 pm

SHOCKING: Two pro-life counselors were BRUTALLY BEATEN by radical abortion supporters outside a Baltimore Planned Parenthood. Where's the peace, love, and compassion from the pro-abortion Left? The Sekulow team discusses this abominable attack and what we're doing about it.

Focus on the Family
Jim Daly
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Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

Today on Sekulow, pro-life counselors brutally beaten outside of Planned Parenthood, the ACLJ is representing both of them.

Hey, welcome to Sekulow. We are taking your calls at 1-800-684-3110. That's 1-800-684-3110. This first half hour of the broadcast, we're going to tell you the story about what happened to these two pro-life counselors, both in their 70s, in Baltimore, Maryland, who regularly go outside of a Planned Parenthood abortion clinic in Baltimore. And again, they're sidewalk counselors. They're not protesters. These are people who pass out a pamphlet for a woman who's walking in, likely to have an abortion. They'll usually say, I hope you'll take the time to read this pamphlet before you make this decision, this major decision.

And that's it. They're very quiet. They're very calm. But still, the abortion activists can't stand them. They're constantly trying to ban them from getting close to Planned Parenthood.

The clinic, they call them escorts, are always pushing them out of the way. But in this case, they took it to a whole new level of violence. The pro-abortion activist, in this case, you would say pro-abortion, almost terrorist, who decided to brutally beat both of our clients here, both who are in their 70s. And at one point told the clinic, one of the clinic employees, hey, hold my drink.

Literally, hold my drink. And they did while I go beat the second protester. So you've got to ask yourself, why did that clinic employee decide to help the person who he just seen beat, I mean seriously beat someone, throw them into a banister? We have images of this we're going to start showing you on the broadcast. It's brutal imagery. Yeah, fair warning. It is graphically violent. And so after one of them was brutally attacked, literally someone at the clinic said, you know what, I'll take your drink so you can go attack the other guy.

Yeah, if you look at these images now, we'll put them up on the screen. That is Mark Crosby. Mark was the second one to arrive on the scene. The attacker came after him, beat him in the face with punches, and then started to kick him in the face when he was on the ground. So you see how brutally he was attacked. Again, you see the bumps, you see the bruising. He's been in and out of the hospital. The attacker is still on the run. There's footage. The Baltimore Police Department is still on. That's what happened to the first, see the older gentleman there.

That's our client as well. And the blood on the street, he was thrown into that pot, that giant pot. A giant planter, for those who were just listening, a giant planter that you would see outside of a facility that's heavy enough to not get blown over by the wind, that kind of thing. But was knocked over so that person gets thrown into that, and after that happens, that person who was making these attacks hands his drink to a person at Planned Parenthood so that he can go attack Mark in the face. And there you see Mark.

This is, again, what happens when you demonize the pro-life movement, which the Biden administration is responsible for, ultimately. And these are sidewalk counselors, to clear up. This isn't someone who's radically, we've been told, not radically screaming, or even they were. Who cares? But these are not those guys.

These are guys handing out pamphlets. Can I talk to you? Can I pray with you? Soft, quiet. Is how everyone has described it.

Yeah, their approach is soft, quiet. They really are there just to, can I get you there? Can you see this pamphlet?

Will you pray with me? Will you maybe read this pamphlet before you make this big decision? And that's it. Yep. Well, that's enough.

And yet the employee at Planned Parenthood, instead of saying, no, I'm not going to hold your drink so you can go beat up the other guy, said, yeah, I'll hold your drink. And then you went and they literally said he was speared. Yep. Like a football. Like a football boot. Like a football spear. Take it up, picked up over his head, slammed into the ground, and then beaten by the fist, and then kicked in the face.

In Baltimore, Maryland. That attacker is still on the run. So what do we do at the ACLJ when we represent these clients? We'll go through it directly the entire instant for you. We're going to make sure justice is done, both in the criminal prosecution, but then in the civil side as well.

Okay. How involved was that clinic? The clinic know the attacker. Why did they help the attacker in the sense of taking the drink?

Why did they not intervene more? We'll talk about all of it. Take your calls.

1-800-684-3110. We get back. All right.

Welcome back to 2 Seculars. I just want to make it clear here. You might have seen the news.

Let's put it up on the screen, people. There's a brutal attack outside of Planned Parenthood abortion clinic in Baltimore. That's one of our clients. So the ACLJ is representing both of the pro-life sidewalk counselors who were brutally attacked.

We represent them. They are ACLJ clients now. When we saw that this had happened, we contacted them directly and said we want to make sure justice is done here. This is going to get complicated because you're going to need the police to prosecute.

Okay. The attacker as of right now is still on the run. There is footage of them.

We will work with Baltimore police department to make sure that attacker who we need to know if Planned Parenthood had a relationship with him. Did they know who he was? Had they seen him before as he hung around the area? They called him a younger man so we know he's not an older attacker.

According to these guys who are 70s and 80s. Yes, who is literally beating nearly to death one of our clients as has been told by one of his friends. But he was saving an even older gentleman who is also an ACLJ client who had been thrown into this huge flower pot. Didn't sustain as many injuries because the attacker turned his attention on our other client, Mark, who he then said if you move, I will come after you. He moved and he was brutally beaten. This is just his facial injuries.

Let me show him again. That's just his facial injuries. That's just what you can see. When you have been beaten that bad in the face. When you've been beaten that bad in the face. Yeah, these are bruises on his arms.

Think about what's happened inside. He's in a very violent UFC fight. Way worse than you can imagine. He's currently blind in one eye because of it. So if you're not watching this and you're talking about his head swollen up like he's been shot to be honest is what it kind of looks like.

He's also kicked in the face which leaves those different kind of that scarring which is just it is shocking scarring. When we saw this I said whoever did this was an enraged psychopath but that enraged psychopath we're going to make sure receives justice under the law and that our clients receive justice. So we're going to work with Baltimore police, put the pressure on to make sure they do arrest this individual, find out who did it, prosecute them to the full extent of the law and then we will come in with a civil case.

These guys beat old men who were just quietly offering their resources in front of Planned Parenthood as they've done for years. This guy is destroyed. He's at large. They're looking for him and we're deeply involved.

That's what I want to make sure people understand here. When we found out about this we got as involved as we could. We reached out to these gentlemen and said we want to represent you obviously at no cost because that's what the ACLJ does. And we're going to take it to court and we're going to make sure like you said that justice is served.

So we are looking at whether or not there's been a violation of the FACE Act, the Free Access to Clinics Interests Act here because of the violence that occurred against our clients. I want you to make sure you understand we are not just talking about this right now. We represent both of these individuals. That is the cool thing about this broadcast.

It's not cool what happened to them. But what is cool about our broadcast is that we talk these issues because we have a team of attorneys and I'm an attorney and we see them and we say let's assist. And you know what we get to do? We don't have to think about the cost. You know why we don't have to think about that? Because there's so many of you out there who donate to the ACLJ.

That doesn't even have to cross my mind. I know this is going to be a tough battle there because I know it's Baltimore, Maryland. It's not going to be the most friendly pro-life activist. But we're going to make sure the police do their job. We're going to make sure again we do our job. There will be a civil case filed here as well. We're going to see how the clinic was involved. We're going to see if there were other federal laws violated here. I don't have to worry about what that is going to cost us legally to do.

Do you know why? Because of all of you who donate to the ACLJ, Logan, that is such an important example of that. I never once, while our whole team was considering, how can we help them?

I'm not a doctor. But what I can do is make sure that that assailant is put behind bars and gets a full prosecution. And so they're just not ignored and they just let it go away. And that ultimately we can bring a civil case against that individual on behalf of our clients. That's what we can do to help. And it's great that I never had to think for a second, never even crossed my mind, which most law firms would, can we afford to do this? How do we have to set this up? All I had to do was say, get to our attorney and say, let's go to them and say, do they want to be represented?

No cost. Absolutely. We were able to use great resources and find these people and connect with them because this story became pretty viral. You probably saw it over the weekend. It became one of those things where if you're in the pro-life community, it became a story. And what we saw is not just two men beaten up.

We also saw how justice can be served, how we can bring more attention to it, but also how we can take this to court and get these guys really taken care of because this is a horrible assault on them. And also obviously a big scare tactic for anyone who wants to be a sidewalk counselor, anyone who wants to just go out and pray in front of a facility. It's not purely just for them. It's for the entire movement. If you've thought about donating to the ACLJ, do it today.

Donate today at And I just want to give you an example. This is not to toot our own horn, but it's just an example of how this came about so quickly. We could have launched this yesterday, but we want to make sure a couple of loose ends were tied up because we are attorneys. So we're not just reporters.

There was plenty of reporting about this already. But when we saw this, this happened on a Friday of a holiday weekend. Did I say, you know what, our attorneys, it's Memorial Day weekend. I'm not going to text them. It's 10 o'clock at night on a Friday Memorial Day weekend.

Absolutely not. We began a text chain at about 1030 at night on Friday. By Sunday, we were in contact directly with these because they were in and out of the hospital on Saturday. So we were in contact with their family members, but they were not able to talk to us yet.

By Sunday, we were signing them up as clients. We were working with them through the holiday on Monday while they were still going to doctor's appointments as we were working with them to make sure they would have legal representation. You see, it's very important when the police are involved in a situation like this.

There's another reason to contact us at slash help because if you were involved in a violent event, and there's also a civil component to that, of course, but someone attacked you because you were doing something that was legally protected, like preying on the sidewalk, sidewalk counseling. You need to be legally represented because there's going to be police involved. There's going to be investigations involved. There's going to be questioning involved by the police. They're going to want to know the stories.

You want to make sure you are telling them all the information they need to know. You want to make sure you've got your own protection legally as attorneys because you're going up against, unfortunately in some of these cases, especially Planned Parenthood is tied to this at all, that specific Planned Parenthood Baltimore because there's already an allegation here that one of the staff members at Planned Parenthood assisted the attacker. The attacker was holding a soda or something. And the attacker literally went up to one of the Planned Parenthood people before he attacked our second client and said, hey, will you hold this for me?

And they did. This is after they saw him beat someone else up. Yeah.

To this point, also, I mean, again, if you're not watching right now, I know a lot of you are listening on radio or maybe even the audio podcast version of this. You have to see the imagery because until you see the imagery, I don't think you'll fully grasp what we're talking about here. This is not a few scuffs. This is not a few cuts and bruises. These are guys who have been just obliterated. I mean, their faces have been destroyed. It's like a gash over your eyebrow. No, no.

And even now we've seen updated imagery. It's like the bruising and the swelling and everything that's happening. It's very graphic. Fair warning.

I mean, I have to tell you that before you go and look, but it is a it's it's a sad reality of where we're living right now. Yeah. We get to the phone calls 1-800-684-3110 if you want to talk to us on the air. In the next segment, I'm going to walk you through it kind of like minute by minute what happened here, just in case you haven't been able to read the story yet. And I know we've been kind of throwing it at you pretty quickly. So we're going to do that.

Take more of your calls at 1-800-684-3110. We are getting into other issues today on the broadcast as well. Mike Pompeo is going to be joining us because China has again rejected the Biden administration's request to meet with the Chinese for our secretary of defense to meet with the Chinese. Secretary of Defense to meet with their minister of defense. They've said again, no. So it talks about, you know, U.S. standing in the world and we're talking about as well as an FBI, the refusal to produce the Biden probe memo to Congress. And now they may move forward with holding Christopher Ray in contempt of Congress. So we've got a lot more to talk about in the second half hour of the broadcast. We're getting into those issues.

But we've got one more segment I wanted to spend on this because I wanted to walk you through it kind of minute by minute how this occurred so that, you know, as you continue to hear about this and learn about this story as the case progresses, you've heard it from beginning to end how this occurred outside this Planned Parenthood clinic in Baltimore. But let's take the phones, Logan, 1-800. We can take this call quickly. All right, Robin's calling in Virginia on line one. You're on the air. Hey, Robin. Yes. Hi. I just I had to call in. I've listened to you all for many years. So I hope you can hear me okay. Yes. Go ahead, please.

We're running close on time. Got it. So my point was just this before anyone would disregard my comment right now. My demographic is somebody who is a believer.

But I went to UC Berkeley. I too had an abortion that I really regret so many years later, so many years later. And because it's such a divisive issue, whether it's pro-life or pro-choice, I feel like this is so horrible that their very name, their platform being called pro-choice, this was no choice at all. And the idea of being pro-choice would include peaceable resolution to a problem. So this is so horrific that I just hope that this brings people to the table to discuss the fact that this is awful.

You know, there's no, the allowance. Let's get your call, Robin. That's why we're doing it, to bring that discussion forward so people don't, they don't ignore this violence. We'll be right back on Secula.

Welcome back to Secula. I hope you will support the work of the ACLJ financially, especially if you care about these issues like life and for those individuals who take the brave stance to go out in front of the abortion clinics and counsel those women in a very calm, quiet, friendly way. You know, they are usually offering prayer and maybe a pamphlet that they ask them to read. Sometimes they remind them that there's a place to go next door like a pro-life pregnancy center, which there is here, who can provide them with some more information before they make this major decision that could cause them to rethink things before. And they're always in, this is again, it's a big decision to make. They make abortion like it's no big deal. If it was no big deal, there wouldn't be all this surrounding it. It's a big deal because women, as we hear from the last caller, they never forget. It's something that even though they know they're forgiven by God, there's grace by Christ and all of these things, it's an action they never forget that occurred in their life. It kind of haunts them forever. And that is what a lot of these actors are trying to say is, hey, you don't have to do this. There's a place that will help you along the way, even if you can't keep the child, but you don't have to terminate the life.

And in this situation, I just want to get through the timeline. So Dick Schafer, our client, he's 75 years old. He goes to the Planned Parenthood in Baltimore five days a week and every week of the year. He's there from about 9 to 11 a.m., so a couple hours a week. On Friday, he was in front of the Planned Parenthood as usual when a man approached him and started talking with him.

That's ultimately the person who was the attacker. The man said that God gave us all free will and that God is merciful and that the decision to get an abortion is hard enough without people like Dick Schafer standing out front to make them feel bad. After a bit of back and forth conversation that was still cordial, Dick says it felt like it was pretty shallow. He decided it was going nowhere and that it was kind of being used so he couldn't talk to the women who were going in to get an abortion. That he wanted to turn his attention to other people who were walking by.

So he turned around and bent over to grab some pamphlets out of a box that he had with him. As he was bent over, he was struck so hard he thought he'd been hit by a truck. So he thought a vehicle had ended up on the sidewalk. He didn't know at the time but he was knocked into a concrete planter and knocked unconscious. He woke up covered in dirt and started looking around for Mark, our other client, worried that he had been hurt too. That's when he realized that he was missing time because two ambulances and police cars were in front of Planned Parenthood because he had been knocked unconscious.

So Dick sustained minor injuries, cuts on his hands and bruises on his body. But then Mark, who goes to Planned Parenthood on occasion, happened to go down there on Friday and was there the same time and he saw what happened to Dick and he saw who was talking to Dick. And the guy walked by Mark while he was standing in the street and said, quote, you stay there. Then he went over to where Dick was standing, handed a soda he was drinking to one of the Planned Parenthood escorts. Okay, so this ties them to it and said, hold this for me.

They did. He then assumed that Mark described, he did what Mark described as a football stance, rushed into Dick, kind of lifting him up and slamming him to the ground. Mark went over to intervene. The guy turned on him and you've seen what's happened to Mark's face, struck him in the face after knocking him to the ground and then kicking him in the head. Mark sustained severe injuries to his head, is currently blind in one eye and has two fractured fingers and injuries to his leg.

That is the imagery you're seeing if you're watching the broadcast right now. Mark, very brave there, tried to assist his fellow sidewalk counselor, Dick, who still did not have to suffer, thankfully, as many injuries but was knocked unconscious long enough not to know that his body had already been beaten and that police had already. I mean, that's a long time to be unconscious. So while we say there's not the scarring, again, the internal injuries that could be there. Yeah, that's a concussion type situation. Maybe not specifically, but that's what it feels like.

Yeah, if you're knocked out hard enough to not hear police sirens and ambulances and they're putting your friends up in there and the guys run off. Again, this is the timeline that we're working with the ACLJ. We represent both of those individuals. And I am just encouraging you, Logan, I think it's just a great example of we were working all weekend to make sure they were going to get the right legal assistance, that it wouldn't cost them anything, and it was going to be the best legal assistance they could get in the United States.

And they're going to get it from the American Center for Law and Justice. I will tell you, they were excited, even in the midst of going through all of that, that they didn't have to contact us. We actually went directly to them because we knew they were dealing with a lot. Yeah.

And we took it, you know, we said, take your time. We just want you to know we're there for you when you're ready and, you know, you need legal representation because there's going to be police. You're dealing with Planned Parenthood. And by the way, you've got a legal challenge that you can make here. People don't just get to beat you up and you don't get to file charges against them.

Yeah, and lawsuits against them. I think so. And that's what makes this, you know, people who listen to this show or watch this show, they think of it as just another outlet for media. And I think this is where you have to get your head wrapped around really what we're doing here, which think of this as a, you know, somewhat we're telling you about the work we're doing.

So what this is a commercial, if you will. I mean, if you want to look at it that way, because we have to tell you what we're doing. This is not just about showing you the problems.

It's actually not even not even suggesting a solution. We are providing the solution. We are going to court.

We are representing these clients. We're working all weekend to find them. Thanks to our friends at Life News.

This became a viral moment where all of a sudden you start seeing it going around. We reached out. We found the contacts. And when we were able to get in touch with the right people, we're able to go to court now and represent these guys who were just the we were trying to come up with the right words. These are not even pro-life protesters. I think we need even clear up. These are sidewalk counselors.

These are guys on the street saying, here's a pamphlet. Would you consider going before you go here? Would you consider going to take a look at what's going on at the pro-life pregnancy center nearby? That is all this was. And it ended in a brutal assault. And the problem is, like you said, this administration and really when Dobbs was overturned, when Roe ended up being overturned, this kind of conversation of being aggressive and violent towards pro-lifers once again reignited.

And you saw Jane's Revenge. You saw the spray painting of facilities with horribly violent things attacking pro-lifers. I think there was a specific term that says, you know, if abortion isn't safe, neither are you. Those were things that were spray painted on pro-life pregnancy centers. I think there's only been a couple of arrests.

Fairly minor. And it got so bad that the FBI said, oh, we'll put up, you know, if you've got information, you know, a tip line. Because you know what I think it is?

They didn't want to do the work. Why wouldn't the FBI, you know, the FBI should be involved in this one. I mean, because you've got clearly an abortion clinic. You got what, as we talked about the face act, which is a federal law.

Premeditative act, clearly. I mean, this is, this was not a, this was not a fight that turned into this just brutal assault. This started as an assault. Right. It wasn't an escalating conversation.

It was a conversation that was fairly calm as reported. And then out of nowhere, this person decides, you know what, you're trying to now stop talking to me. So you're going to start doing your job again as a sidewalk counselor. I'm really trying to prevent you from doing that. But the rage on, on the left, like the say, you know what, like this is okay behavior. Yeah.

It's really disturbing. I want to see their condemnation. Like where's Planned Parenthood saying, you know, we strongly disagree with those sidewalk counselors, but they, they do not deserve to be beaten to death.

Yeah. I would love to hear outside of our clinic. I would love to hear from them. Planned Parenthood of Baltimore, if you're around. I would say, you know what, if, if, if some pro-life nut, you would start to attack one of their volunteers. I would, I would immediately say this is wrong, right? This is absolutely wrong in the United States of America. And it's unacceptable.

Violence always is unacceptable unless you're defending yourself. In this case, these individuals never got that chance. They were sucker punched, thrown to the ground and no one came to their defense.

All those Planned Parenthood staff right there. I'm looking to see if there's anything from, you know, obviously I'm sure they've reached out some of the, they didn't release a statement. We'll have that statement when we come back and we'll talk about it more.

We do about a second half hour of this broadcast coming up. Mike Pompeo is going to be joining us and a lot more on this topic and more. We'd love to hear from you and your thoughts at 1-800-684-3110.

1-800-684-3110. Support the work as you see. The real important work that we're doing on the ground, not just this broadcast, the on the ground work of the ACLJ.

By going to and making a donation today because we can provide people like this with free legal representation. We'll be right back. Keeping you informed and engaged. Now, more than ever, this is Sekulow. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow. We are taking your calls to 1-800-684-3110.

I wanted to spend that first half hour on this. It's a new ACLJ case. We're representing both of those individuals who were brutally attacked outside the Planned Parenthood clinic in Baltimore. They are pro-life sidewalk counselors. They have an absolute constitutional legal right to be there.

They are there regularly. No one's ever said they're violating the rules or of all the rules that are around that. They have never been in trouble with that.

They are not, since they're not screaming, they're not causing disturbances. Yet they were the targets of violence. And then we said, you know, I wonder if Planned Parenthood or even Planned Parenthood Baltimore condemned this.

And Logan researched it just in our last break. And it looks like they did, right? On first reading, you would think they condemned the attack. And then you read it closely and you realize they're blaming our clients for the violence, for what happened. Not because of the violence, but because, well, since there was violence outside the clinic, less people got abortions that day.

Yeah, I'll read you the statement. This is from Planned Parenthood. It says, This past Friday was an unfortunate incident on the sidewalk outside of our Baltimore healthcare center between a pedestrian and anti-choice protesters. We at Planned Parenthood of Maryland condemn all violence.

Sounds good so far. When abortion care is under attack across the country, we cannot tolerate violent acts from anywhere, especially when it gets in the way of patients receiving proper health care. So like you said, there are ambulances coming by because this guy got attacked. Again, of course, they're saying anti-choice protesters is the word they're using. As we said, not even protesters. I wouldn't consider these people to make the individual out to be just a random pedestrian who attacked them.

No. He was not. He was interacting with Planned Parenthood staff on the street.

So he's not just a random person on the street. In fact, we don't know yet if he has any direct ties to them. We will find out why that person was so easy to accept his drink. Kind of a weird situation to say, after he had just thrown someone into a planter, were they scared? We'll find out in depositions. Were they scared for them?

Okay, that's fine. You need to tell us, though. Like, why were you helping him?

We'll find out. And so that was, though, one of the weakest. They were basically blaming our clients for the violence outside the clinic. Yes, by using terms like anti-choice protesters and we want to condemn all violence because when abortion care is under attack across the country, we can't tolerate violence because it's going to get in the way of patients receiving their health care. And that's what they were mad about because if ambulances and police showed up, there were less abortions out there. You know what that means?

They made less money. Yeah, exactly. That's true.

And that is victim blaming. When we come back to it for the next segment of the broadcast, we're joined by former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. China has again, and we keep going back to the international news because it is getting more and more dangerous for the United States, I think, and more and more serious, again has rejected a meeting between our Secretary of Defense and their Minister of Defense. So they again are refusing, again refusing to meet with the United States. We used to be a country that if we wanted to meet with you, even if you were an enemy, if you were Iran, oh God, they would like beg to meet with us, remember? Let's do whatever we can to get to the table. Now these countries really feel like they could just blow us off and not take the meeting.

I mean, what kind of country are we living in in the United States? There's no respect. And that's the problem.

That's it right there. You are really not the number one superpower in the world if you can't get a meeting with anyone you want. Because typically if you're the number one superpower in the world, they're going to meet with you. Because you have a financial ability to crush them and a military ability to crush them. But the question is, do we have either of those anymore when it comes to China or are we just not flexing our muscles the right way?

Maybe we have all of the components, but we're not flexing it the right way. So we'll talk about that with Mike Pompeo when we come back. We're also going to get into the story involving the FBI. Remember, they had a confidential informant come to them, fill out one of those FD 1023 forms, and they are not providing that to Congress. So Congress can now move to hold Christopher Wray in contempt. So we'll talk about that as well and take your calls at 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110. I think today we've given you a great example about why to financially support the work of the ACLJ. And it doesn't always have to be huge donations. I think our average donation is like $50. So if you could donate $25, $50 to ACLJ, that's a very meaningful donation to us. Because so many of you donate, and that's how it works. Grassroots donations. Donate today at

If you think you need legal help, you contact us at slash help. We'll be right back. Hey, welcome back to SECIO. Folks, we are joined by our Senior Counsel for Global Affairs, former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. Secretary Pompeo, more news out of China. And typically, just a broader first question, even adversarial powers with the United States are willing to hear each other out. Certainly when one of the powers is one of the top superpowers, if not the top superpower, then the United States of America. Usually we'd see other countries, even countries that would be adversarial to the U.S., almost rushing, doing whatever they could to get a meeting with U.S. officials potentially to come up with some deals that relieve sanctions from them or improve the relationship. But right now we've seen yet again China telling the United States no and rejecting requests for meetings between our defense officials and their defense officials.

Well, Jordan, you're absolutely right. It is normally the case that every country wants to meet with every American leader. When I was a Secretary of State, as I traveled the world, leaders wanted to meet with me. They wanted to have conversations. They wanted to hear. Even if they were angry, frustrated, didn't care for the policies we were moving for, they wanted to have that conversation.

To watch the Chinese Communist Party, not just once or twice or not just for a short period, but for an extended time, begin to push off. Begin to simply say, no, we don't think there's anything worthy of chatting about. We don't think there are any constructive conversations to be had. I think that tells you something about America's standing in the world. My second thought is one of the things I think the Chinese Communist Party had begun to take for granted with this administration is when they did talk, they could claim victory just by talking.

It's never enough to have the conversation be the objective. And it doesn't sound like this administration yet has convinced the Chinese Communist Party that we have built out a powerful economy, a powerful military that will require the Chinese to deal with this on terms that make sense for America and the West. You used the word powerful. I wanted to kind of seize on that because it seems to me it's almost like a clear confirmation that at least for now, and I hope it's temporary, that the U.S. has lost that kind of most powerful nation standing in the eyes of the world. And I think, you know, is it even worse is it's like we're just so weak that even if we still had the power, they don't think we're utilizing it the right way. So at this point in time, they at least feel like they can blow us off. I mean, my hope is that that's temporary, Secretary Peña, that this could be reversed. But the further it goes bad, the longer it takes to get reversed, I would have a feeling. There's no doubt.

It's just like anything else. When you dig the hole, the deeper you dig, the harder it is to climb out of. And we've now dug ourselves a pretty big hole on the global stage, whether it was the catastrophe of the 13 American lives lost in Afghanistan, the fact that we let this very Chinese Communist Party fly a balloon over our country for five days and did nothing.

Those are things that the bad guys observe and it can be reversed. One can fix it. There's no doubt we still have the most powerful economy. We still have the greatest people in the world. We have we have the capacity to continue to lead this world forward in a way that we have for the last 65, 70 years. It doesn't appear this administration is prepared to actually use those kinds of power and to deter adversaries from attacking us and to make sure we protect every American from these threats. We can reverse this.

It's possible to do, but it's going to take good leadership. When the Chinese are asking, why are you doing this by the press? Why are you refusing to meet? They talk about U.S. sanctions. But then, as you talk about it, we talked about the spy balloons and issues like that. We know that's still been heated.

But even with sub sanctions, and some of those are very old, and the spy balloon that we shot down after it flew over our entire airspace. And the idea here is that's usually when you meet in those kind of situations where things are getting heated and you want to bring the tensions down, you would you would typically meet. Do you think that if these officials, if the Biden administration really thought this was a priority, that they wouldn't just keep asking and keep getting a no, but they would they would almost almost not accept a no. You know what I'm saying?

Like they would keep going to them until they finally said, no, we are going to meet. We have got to bring tensions down in the world. We've got to start talking about your role with Russia, your role in Taiwan, our role in these situations. Let's not let this get out of control. Jordan, we didn't highlight, I think, the fact that they canceled one of the most important meetings with the Secretary of Defense, America's Secretary of Defense.

All right, this is this is the place most likely to cause a flash or a confrontation in a way that none of us think makes any sense. And they've now denied just the simple communication between our two military and our military leaders, an increasingly dangerous risk. You know, I always remind folks, Jenny's Communist Party talks about wanting to be a global leader.

We should hold them to what it is they say they want. If you're going to be a global leader, you have to behave that way. When another nation invades a European country, you have to say, no, that's wrong. When a virus springs up inside your country, you need to get the best minds around it to try and make sure you don't kill millions of people around the world.

When you have a religious minority inside your country, you don't put a million people in an internment camp. You behave like a world leader. And so our expectations should go far beyond asking for meetings. We should say, if you want to be a global leader, game on.

Let's go. Step up. You have one point four billion people, a big economy, smart folks. Bring your people to bear, and you can do that, but you can't do that while you're behaving like a rogue nation on the world stage.

So true. You can't claim to be what the country used to be, and then also claim that you're this new kind of world-leading superpower that's going to direct the world. Because, again, you've got to have clear sets of guidelines.

What you actually believe in, what you do support, what you don't support. Not that kind of, as they go in with all of the kind of, oh, we don't take sides here, we're not going to take a side here, or maybe we will on this issue, but not on this issue. It's always been tricky with China.

We know that, again, our economies are very directly tied together, and that makes it even more difficult. But do you contrast a difference under the Trump administration when you were serving as CIA director and secretary of state? And now, I mean, I'm sure that the same leaders were there, were still antagonistic, not easy necessarily to work with, but do you think they've just taken advantage of the Biden team? I mean, it's the same people that you were working with across those tables are still there in China.

I think that's right. No, Xi Jinping is the same fellow with the same objective of global hegemony that he had when we were there. I think what's different is that they understood we were serious. We weren't going to be inflammatory.

We weren't going to make claims that we weren't prepared to follow up on. We were going to seriously deal with and confront the very real threats that the Chinese Communist Party posed. And when there were places we could work together, well, President Trump signed a phase one trade deal with them. But when they were moving fentanyl around the world, when they were operating an espionage operation out of their console in Houston, Texas, when there were things that put the American people at risk, we were going to put our country first.

And I think the Chinese knew that. And so they behaved differently when we were in office than in the way they're treating the Biden administration today. And that's forget the Biden administration for a moment. That's just not good for America. I mean, I don't remember a time when it didn't seem like they were nearly as aggressive either with maybe their language was similar on Taiwan, but the actions were not nearly as aggressive under the Trump administration.

It's definitely ramped up. One of the things that we also did well, and I'll credit the Biden administration for continuing to work on this, is that we made clear that this wasn't just an American problem. We wanted Japan. We wanted Singapore, South Korea, our Australian friends, our colleagues and allies all across the region, the Indians.

We wanted them to understand the risks in the same way that we did and bring them alongside us not to contain China, but to push back against the very real threat that the Chinese Communist Party was posing to all of us and to an established system in the world that delivered really good outcomes for the United States for decades. Secretary Pompeo, we always appreciate your insight as Senior Counsel for Global Affairs at the ACLJ. Secretary Pompeo also writes regularly for the ACLJ exclusive pieces that you can only find at So check those out as well. A great piece from Memorial Day that we shared broadly and widely by Secretary Pompeo.

That's available too. You can check that out. And as always, thank you for your insight, Secretary Pompeo. I think it brings those huge issues that sometimes we get caught up in so much of what's happening here at home.

We've got elections coming up, but you realize the world is kind of like shrugging their shoulders at us. It does seem like you said there's no respect there and when there's no respect... How quickly that changed? Right, it can change.

Well, it changes when you have no real... I don't want to say threat is the wrong word, but when it doesn't feel like you have someone in charge. It really feels like someone who can actually get something done, will get something done for your country, but also that you're a little afraid of, that can actually do something that you need. Yeah, I like... Is willing to challenge at least. President Trump's... I think this would go down as like a famous quote because I think it's true. He said when he sat across from people like Putin and he sat across from Xi, when he would kind of talk tough, like by the way, here's your house, I know where your family is. So if you take an action like this... He said what?

It's always good for them to be a little... He said 90% they thought I was bluffing, but 10%... It wasn't 99% thought I was bluffing, but 10% of their mind, he said, thought this guy might be crazy enough to kill my entire family and blow up my house. So it kept the Taliban under control. It kept the Chinese under control.

It kept Putin under control. We weren't worried about that. We weren't worried about the Middle East. There was no expansion by Russia. The Middle East was becoming more friendly than ever.

The Jews and the Arabs were uniting together. I mean, the Chinese were... It's still the Chinese, but they weren't about to invade Taiwan. They weren't partnering up with Russia to invade another country like Ukraine.

I mean, we were living in a very different world. We had isolated Iran and now Saudi Arabia has got to make a deal with Iran. So again, we'll take calls to this. I'd love to hear from you about this or specifically about the case we're taking on for the pro-life advocates who are out front and got beaten.

We'd love to hear from you. 1-800-684-3110. Phone lines are open. This is the last call. 1-800-684-3110.

Welcome back to Secular. Take your calls to 1-800-684-3110. That's 1-800-684-3110. I wanted to update you on this because we've talked about it a lot on the show. The FBI formally refused yesterday to turn over to Congress the investigative memo that alleged a bribery scream. Remember, there was a confidential informant came to the FBI and finally that confidential informant went to the Congress's whistleblower and said, I went to the FBI with this information and it looks like they never informed you about it. And there's no knowledge about whether they even investigated it.

It's not to say that what the confidential informant had was 100% true or false. The question from Congress initially was, did you ever investigate this and can we see the outcomes of that? FBI has refused. The committee, the oversight committee, which is chaired by Congressman Comer of Kentucky, is now moving forward with proceedings to hold Christopher Wray in contempt of Congress. That is something that can be prosecuted by the Department of Justice.

Now, again, this Department of Justice, under Merrick Garland, overseen by then the Biden administration, unlikely to move forward with prosecuting Christopher Wray, but it is still a big move. The last time this happened, I think it was Eric Holder, who was held in contempt. It was a similar kind of situation, not providing the documents on Fast and Furious.

So even a less personal situation there. Here we also have in a secondary report, let's check this one. This came from Catherine Herridge at CBS News this morning. Whistleblowers said that during the FBI investigation of Hunter Biden, there was derogatory evidence related to Hunter Biden that was wrongly labeled as, surprise, surprise, lo and guess what they labeled it as? Disinformation. Yes.

Oh, I just nailed that. When it could be or had already been verified. They had already verified that this information was true and they labeled it disinformation. So when they claimed that the derogatory evidence was then disinformation, it was placed in a highly restricted system that prevented other FBI investigators from reviewing it in their course of the related work.

So they took evidence that was true, classified it as disinformation, took it out of the pool of information that FBI investigators could look into. The further we're going into this, the more and more you say, wow, this family, I mean, the deals that they were pulling, the stunts that they've got, the amount of people they've got, the insight. Impressive is one word you could say. That's it, massive.

Yeah, massive and impressive, both. Yes. And, you know, I think that the ultimate solution here, ultimate solution here, Logan, and we know it is, Congress should keep doing its role. Keep pounding the table, hold them and look at the info, demand the info, keep getting it to the American people. You know, keep educating because they're going to have a choice.

Yeah, coming up. They're going to, if it's Donald Trump and Joe Biden, Joe Biden's going to say, oh, Donald Trump's the one out of control. Really? Because the entire time you've been President, your son's been under FBI investigation. And this is the CBS News reporting.

We'll make sure you clarify that too. This is not some conservative outlet. This is an outlet that doesn't probably want to have to cover this, but at least they have some journalistic integrity to cover it. So this is the, what you'd say is probably the left-leaning version of the story. Yeah, I mean, it's Katherine Harris who came from Fox News. It's true. But works at CBS, right, CBS News had to approve this.

Still has a counter, yeah. And the headline is whistleblower disclosure alleges FBI procedures were not followed in the Hunter Biden investigation. That's because they took information that was derogatory evidence related to Hunter Biden. They labeled it as disinformation when it could be or had already been verified.

So it was verified, some of this was already verified as being truthful, as being correct information. But by labeling it disinformation, they took it into a different database that was not accessible by FBI investigators investigating Hunter Biden, which we know is currently ongoing. So they took that evidence off the field. That alone is crime. Kind of like the worst of the worst crimes. Talking about protecting the elites. You take evidence you know is true and you take it off the field. You just shift it.

So that the FBI can't even utilize that. For sure. Just let it trickle down for a moment. There are some people, yeah, a lot of people are calling on Rumble for Chris Wray to go. I think that's been an overwhelming statement. I think all of the leading Republican candidates have said that that's going to happen if they become President.

They have that pretty quickly. Let's go ahead and take a phone call. Let's go to Chris who's calling in Nevada on line one. You're on the air, Chris.

Hi. Talk about shifting fields. Could it be that China is giving the appearance that they disrespect the Biden administration to take away any idea that they've influenced him and his family in the past? You know, I mean, it's a boy like are they trying to protect Biden? I actually think they're mad that whenever Biden takes a move against them, even a small one, like after they sent a spy balloon over that we shot it down, I think they're mad because they have had such a positive relationship with the Biden family on economic deals. That they're so mad about that that they are actually taking that out on the U.S. government. Yeah, basically they've had the inside track the whole time. Like, hey, we've been providing you guys millions and millions of dollars in business deals. You're going to treat us like we're the enemy? That's an interesting way to look at it. China is the opposite.

Okay. I don't think they're protecting the Bidens. I think they are actually punishing the Bidens by not allowing the government that they now oversee the Bidens as President. They do not have a good relationship with them. Refuse to meet with your people. Yeah. Cancel meetings the day before.

Yeah, they do seem a little vindictive. Imagine having the U.S. secretary of state. I mean, that's pretty important, right?

Fly all the way over, be mid-flight, and you cancel the meeting on them. Yeah. That's not like- That's pretty brutal. We canceled it a week before. Yeah, you're on the way there. Which is already bad, but you're like there. You are shifting your entire schedule has been for this, and they cancel just to spite you.

To me, that seems more like they're sending a message to Joe Biden like, we know we made you rich, and we made your son rich, and your family rich, and your brother rich. And you can't treat us like that. Right.

We should be treating us like a friend, not an enemy. For sure. I do want to quickly, we have two and a half minutes, kind of restate the original topic of this show, because there are a lot of people who are just joining us now.

I know Friends on Rumble have selected us to be featured right now. They're seeing this headline, so I want to make sure that they have an idea of what we're doing as we come to a close today. Sure. You might have seen some of the news reporting, we represent two individuals, sidewalk counselors, who were brutally attacked in Baltimore, Maryland, outside of a Planned Parenthood clinic, which is also next door to a pro-life pregnancy center. They are sidewalk counselors. These are not aggressive protesters. These are individuals who would approach a woman that was going into a Planned Parenthood, maybe ask to pray with them, tell them that there is a place next door that would provide them with more information, maybe provide them with just a pamphlet that talks about the other alternatives to abortion, and that's that.

They're very peaceful, they're very calm. If the woman doesn't want to talk to them, they let them go by. They don't violate the rules and the laws that govern the free access to clinics. They do it every week, some of them every day, and they were brutally attacked and assaulted outside of the Planned Parenthood. Again, Planned Parenthood tried to act like they don't know who this person was, but one of their Planned Parenthood people actually assisted. Because when this attacker, after he attacked the first person, I guess picked up something to drink?

And then handed the drink and said, hey, will you hold my drink? When they went to beat the other pro-life counselor up, both are being represented by the American Center for Law and Justice. Our team worked on this over the weekend on Memorial Day weekend. I didn't say to our team, hey, let's contact them on Tuesday.

I said, you know, they're going through it right now. They need legal representation. We're able to do that and provide that for them at no cost to them. They don't have to think about the cost. I also don't have to worry about what it's going to cost the ACLJ to do it. You know why? Because you donate to the ACLJ.

So our team, with all the work that we were doing all weekend, didn't have to worry about the money we were spending. We just have to worry about getting justice, though. Yeah, absolutely.

And if you are just joining us right now, because again, we're now highlighted on Rumble, when this show ends, you're going to be able to click to repeat it. You should watch the first few segments if you want to learn more about this. And also visit Well, blogs going up, news stories going up, all going on on And make sure you're subscribed to this channel. We'll be back tomorrow with more on Secular.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-05-31 15:19:07 / 2023-05-31 15:40:57 / 22

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