Putin's Next Move

Today on Sekulow, the world awaits the next move of Vladimir Putin. Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow. We want to hear from you.

Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. And now your host, Jay Sekulow. Hey everybody, welcome to the broadcast. We've got a lot of breaking news I'm looking at right now. Let me give you some headlines to start this off. Politico, House temporarily punts on Russian vote on Russian oil ban. CNBC, this is important folks. Kremlin says US has declared economic war on Russia.

The Hill, House to vote on Stopgap measure to avert government shutdown. Defense News, US nuclear forces chief very concerned by Russia-China cooperation. Financial Times, Russia is close to sabotaging the Iran nuclear deal.

We talked a little bit about that yesterday. Fox News, Russian official says Iran got much more than it expected in revived nuclear talks. Axios, Pentagon rejects Polish plan to get fighter jets to US to supply to Ukraine, which was an interesting move. The Poles were willing to give up their MiGs, but they wanted them not to go directly to Ukraine.

They wanted to send them to us, the United States in Rheinsteins Air Force Base in Germany, and then move them to Ukraine. And this is how war starts at an escalated level. Andy, you and I were talking before we went on the air that when you study World War I and World War II, these kinds of moves are the escalating factors. And this would escalate and I think very, very significant.

Oh yes, definitely. It would be deemed by Putin to be an attack by the United States in my estimation, or by NATO upon his forces in the Ukraine. Simply shifting the locus of the takeoff from Poland to Rheinsteins Air Force Base does not cure the problem of what Putin would perceive this to be. And that would be a concerted attack by the West against his forces that are in the Ukraine.

And these are the way, these are the small provocations that you've got to think about. And the Pentagon, I think correctly, rejected the Polish plan to give the fighter jets to the United States. At least for now. To supply them for the Ukraine at least for now.

Now here's the other aspect of this. We have got an incredible group of experts assembled as we always do. Congressman Mike Waltz is going to be joining us.

Of course, he has served in these regions. He's very concerned about the whole situation with Russia, obviously. Our senior advisor for national security and foreign policy, Rick Grenell, is going to be joining us.

Then in the second half hour, our senior counsel for global affairs, former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is joining us. Then our panel of experts will also be joining us in this broadcast, especially as we look into some of the Ukraine war issues that are going on right now. It was very interesting. Yesterday, Vladimir Zelensky made an impassioned plea invoking the words of Winston Churchill in the House of Commons where he received multiple standing ovations. It was a very well done speech. But I will tell you how I viewed it as someone who studied Churchill and as someone that is still studying Churchill.

I don't think it's a lifelong pursuit. I've been to Oxford to study it. I've got books here in the United States. I'm constantly reading on Churchill. The fact that we're reaching this kind of Churchill moment, Andy, is very dangerous for the world.

It is very dangerous for the world. Remember, Churchill saved Western civilization by championing the cause of Britain and Zelensky is playing on those very themes with the House of Commons. But Churchill was afraid of invasion and he warded off the invasion of the Nazis by the Battle of Britain. But Zelensky picking up that theme of Churchill has already been invaded and he is now seeking the support of the West. And he used very Churchillian language in the House of Commons the other day. I thought I was listening to him having taken a speech from Churchill and modifying it. Great speech. Great speech. But it shows you how dangerous the world is right now. I mean, you basically have a war in East, not basically, there is a war in Eastern Europe.

And the consequences of that historically have never been good. So what do we do? We're going to analyze it. We're going to take action.

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For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support.

Take part in our matching challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive, and that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn. It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support, and the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, the Planned Parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Hey, welcome back to the broadcast, everyone. We're joined by our good friend, Congressman Mike Waltz, of course, who represents the 6th congressional district in Florida. He served in our military, graduated from the Virginia Military Institute, one of our fine institutions, served over 24 years in the U.S. Army.

Congressman, I am, you know, watching this very carefully. My family's origins were Ukraine, and sometimes it was Ukraine, sometimes it was Russia, depending on the... But my grandfather, on his immigration papers, put down what said country of origin. It said Russia, slash Poland, because his village kept going back and forth. You've said in a tweet this morning, Putin cannot lose in Ukraine if he wants to stay in power. I fear he will do whatever it takes to break the Ukrainian people from chemical weapons to land mines on humanitarian routes like Russia has historically done in Afghanistan and Syria. What is your assessment on where we are in this war?

Well, two things. One, Putin overestimated his military capabilities and underestimated Zelensky. His plan, he is still executing, which is to cut off the Ukraine army in the east, to surround Kiev. I think he hopes to not have to go into Kiev and cause the government to collapse, and then cut off Ukraine from the Black Sea, which is to take the ports of Mariupol and Odessa. My assessment is he does not have the combat power to occupy the entire country, but he can turn it into a landlocked, rump state with his puppet government.

I think he settled down into a stalemate. My concern is, this is obviously not going to plan for Putin, and Russian-Soviet doctrine is they compensate for their lack of ability to conduct precision strikes and maneuver with just pure brute force. They are going to settle into siege warfare, and if you look at what they did in Chechnya, Afghanistan, and Syria, it was literally bombing hospitals, sewing civilian areas with landmines.

Some were disguised to look like toys so that children picked them up. And even the use of chemical weapons, it is literally to break the back of the resistance. And I fear this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. You know, the Ukrainian military has done, I mean, I think, a very admirable job in holding this back as best they can. There's some complications on with some military armaments, and we'll talk about that in a moment, but I want to get a realistic assessment from you with your military experience, and that is, can Ukraine hold them off, or does the Zelensky government fall, and as you said, a puppet government come into place? Is anything inevitable at this point? Well, I think it's somewhere in between, and that's why I've been saying publicly and in engagement, Zelensky, I believe, needs to shift to survival mode.

I fear how exposed he is every time he comes online. The Russians are trying to geolocate him and kill him, and therefore, what has become a powerful symbol of resistance. So I think you could see Kiev fall, the Russians put their puppet government in place there, but Zelensky and the Ukrainian government displaced to the west, where it is much friendlier territory and closer to supply lines from Poland and Romania, and essentially settle into what could be some type of, I don't want to say civil war because that would imply that the Ukrainians are fighting Ukrainians, but Russian-occupied territory and what remains of Ukraine. One of the issues that we are also looking at is this ban on the President put in place on Russian oil. First of all, what's your thoughts on that, and what impact do you see that having? Well, like most things, Biden has done too little too late, including providing arms that the Ukrainians should have had beforehand. When I was out there last year, they were begging for stingers, harpoon anti-ship missiles, and more javelins, and the White House was sitting on them here and over there. On the Russian ban, absolutely all for it, bipartisan support, Congress pushed them in the right direction.

The question is, what do you replace it with? And the answer is not to replace it with other US adversaries and make us shift our addiction from Russian oil to Iranian and Venezuelan oil. And I could tell you, Floridians, particularly our Hispanic community, are in an uproar over these talks with Venezuela.

It's just, it's unacceptable. We discussed that internally here yesterday, actually, because we do a lot of work, as you know, all over the globe. And our senior counsel, Andy O'Connell, is with me in the studio, is a doctorate in history. And the idea, we talked about this yesterday, Andy, very briefly on air, but we talked about it extensively afterwards. The idea that we are going to lift sanctions on Iran, put sanctions on Russia, try to cut deals for oil from Venezuela, from Maduro, to prop that government up, is nonsensical.

Yes, it is. It makes no sense to go to a dictator and make friends with him. Why not make friends with people in Pennsylvania and let them dig instead, drill for oil? And I wanted to ask the congressman, do you think that it's wise, Congressman Walz, for us to be going to dictators like Maduro, to the Iranians, or making obeisance to the Saudis and begging them, who apparently put us on voicemail and said, we'll get back with you. What do you think of that approach to the President? Well, I mean, it really says something that in 18 months we've gone from generational peace deals in the Abraham Accords with a number of Middle Eastern countries standing side by side with the Israelis, the Saudis moving in that right direction, standing on the White House lawn, peace in the Middle East, to now Iran racing towards a nuclear weapon. And the Saudis and our very close allies, who I fought alongside in Afghanistan, the Emiratis won't even return the President's call. And that's all because of this sellout that they see happening to Iran, this desperation for a deal at all costs that's selling them out and their security interests as well.

You just can't make up how bad this is and just bad decision after bad decision by this administration. I'm going to return back to the situation because you're a military guy and the situation in Ukraine right now, and that is there was talk that Poland was going to provide their MiGs to Ukraine with the backfill request for F-16s from the United States. LEND program, we've seen that before in other wars where it's done, Lend-Lease. Here's the question. Now they're saying the Poles out of nowhere supposedly our Department of Defense was totally taken off guard.

That's what we were saying last night. The Poles said, well, you know what? We don't want to send the aircraft from Poland to Ukraine. What we'd rather do is the United States send them to Rheinsteins Air Force Base.

You have them. You can retrofit them and get them ready. And you can get the training done there in the next few days and then let the planes fly out of Germany, out of an American base into Ukraine. To me, that escalates this conflict drastically with Russia.

Yeah, it could. And that's the calculation the Poles are making. It's one thing to provide. They're making the assessment that it's one thing to provide ammunition and other types of support to the Ukrainians over their border. It's another thing to provide jets and that the Russians will make a distinction. And that Poland is the first place of a NATO country that's likely to get hit as Russia tries to bomb these resupply convoys. Look, I think this is a place for the United States has to step up. The United States has to lead. The Ukrainian, I agree that we should not establish a no-fly zone. That would mean our plane shooting down theirs and bombing their Russian anti-aircraft site.

That's an important piece too. But let's stop this ping pong. So once he needs help and if we have to provide it to give the Poles some assurance, then fine. If Russia is going to escalate, they're going to escalate. Sometimes you have to escalate to deescalate.

But here's the one thing, I mean, I agree with what you're saying, but let me just make my point. And that is Eastern Europe is in a conflict. Poland could be the next target. So this shell game of moving it to the United States so the Poles can say, oh, we've got clean hands on this, to me is ridiculous. It's going to complicate matters. It's going to increase or decrease capabilities in the short term, which I think is dangerous for Ukraine.

I don't think it can hold on that long. So I think the Poles are playing a little bit, Congressman, I want your view on this, a little bit of a shell game here too, which is typical Eastern European move, unfortunately, when we're in these kinds of conflicts. You know, look, I absolutely agree with you and the time for the shell game is over. I do want to give the Poles credit for what they are doing. But look, we've made a decision to not deploy directly NATO forces, Polish, American or otherwise, but to give the Ukrainians everything they need. And we need to stop drawing these false distinctions and give them what they need.

Totally agree with you. But if it turns out the Poles aren't going to do it, then let's do it and let's move out and get it done. Congressman Walts, we always appreciate having you on, your insights great. Thank you for the great work you're doing for not only the folks in Florida, but for all of us. It's an important time.

Last question. Do you think there is a chance Ukraine can withstand this? Well, I think they have certainly can slow it down. And I think that Putin is going to pass a month really struggle to sustain this logistically. So this is a race. This is an arms race, literally.

And every minute that we sit on our hands to get the Ukrainians what we need makes them a lot less successful. Congressman, we appreciate you being with us. We've got a lot more ahead coming up.

Rick Rinnell, former Director of National Intelligence. Jam-packed program. Folks, if you're watching on any of our social media platforms, share this with your friends. Get everybody involved. If you're on Facebook, you want to make sure you hear the whole broadcast so we can go over to Rumble. They're not going to censor us there.

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Is there any hope for that culture to survive? And that's exactly what you were saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases. How we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists. The ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later. Planned Parenthood's role in the abortion industry and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy, and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge. For every dollar you donate it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support. Take part in our matching challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family.

Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Hey, welcome back to the broadcast, everyone. And we are so glad that we're joined by our Senior Advisor in Global Affairs, former Director of National Intelligence, also former Ambassador to Germany, a decade of experience at the United Nations, and that is Rick Renell. Rick, you know, this is a... We just had Congressman Walz on. I'm looking at the situation in Ukraine right now and it is...

It's troubling. Then I got... You know, then we have the Iran matter. And word leaks out that our go-between has been the Russians.

I mean, I'm trying to say, if you wrote this as a book, they would label it fiction because nobody would believe it. And the Russians are saying, are so-called go-betweens, who are basically fighting in Eastern Europe, that the Iranians are thrilled because they got much more than they thought they'd ever get. Imagine being in a room where it's the Americans on one side, the Russians on the other, and you have a couple of big issues to talk about. One is the Iran deal and one is Ukraine.

You are absolutely going to package your requests to make sure that you don't ask for too much on one and you switch for something else on the other. The art of diplomacy for the Biden administration is that consensus matters. It matters that the other side, the Europeans, in these negotiations are happy. And so we've been relying on the Europeans and the Russians to carry some of our water and to make the points with the Iranians. Imagine that we're relying on the Russians for an Iran policy while also trying to be tough on them because of what they're doing on the offense in Europe. This is a recipe for disaster and I would not put our current political appointees at the State Department in a position where they have to be tough and represent us because we will fail every single time. Well, and of course, you know, Rick, we are failing, right?

I mean, we're failing right now in real time. So, you know, we talk about the term real politic. And the real politic of this right now is there is a war in Eastern Europe and we're kidding ourselves if we think, I believe, and feel free to disagree.

I think Ukrainians are, people are doing a valiant fight and Zelensky has done a great job, you know, rallying the troops. And he gave that speech to the House of Commons yesterday, invoking the memory of Winston Churchill. I'm looking at it though and saying, as someone who studied this, we're at that point where he's having to go to the House of Commons and get standing ovations because his country's about to get flattened. And here's my question. At the end of this, if you're Vladimir Putin right now, is there anything short of absolute control of Ukraine that you settled for?

It's a good question. I think that his pride and his pride of country is on the line. And so, no, I think, you know, he's said that he wants to take over Ukraine.

I think that he's got to move forward with that. Remember, he's not a rational actor. We're not going to be able to put rational arguments on him like, oh, you're under sanctions and your country seems to be in turmoil economically and reputationally. He doesn't think like that. He's surrounded by people who just work for his crony ways.

And it's like a mafia style organization over there. He doesn't really care about the people. He doesn't care about anything other than money and power. And so, I don't think that he's going to calculate rationally and we shouldn't and the agencies, the intelligence agencies of the United States shouldn't put rational criteria around Putin. He's a madman. And clearly, the international pressure and statements from the UN are not going to work. Rick, I said this yesterday. I want to get your take on it today. And that is, you were the Director of National Intelligence.

You know this area. Here's my concern. What I was looking for, in a case, what's the off-ramp? What's the way out?

What is the way in which you can get this situation under control so that at the end of the day, he can claim some sort of victory? Is it no NATO and Ascension? Is that enough? But I'm wondering, and you were the DNI, based on, and I don't disclose anything obviously, but based on your knowledge of this guy, Putin, is that going to be enough? If Vladimir Zelensky says, I'm not going to exceed, I'm not going to request Ascension into NATO. That's my whole point, Jay, about a rational discussion. I mean, for you and I, an off-ramp seems logical.

It seems like maybe you could calculate you overreached and now you've got a safe face. That is not going to happen with Vladimir Putin. He is, you know, let me just be very clear. He's in a different state and he, we cannot subscribe rationality to him. If we could, Bill Burns, who is the head of the CIA and who was ambassador to Russia, would have been able to somehow maneuver this before they, we saw a bloody war unfold, but we're not dealing with a rational actor. And that's the whole scary part here. I asked this question to Congressman Walz.

I want to ask this question to you, and I'm not asking for a prediction. And I want to see the, you know, look, I've said this before, Ukraine has got its own internal problems and has had its own internal problems. They have oligarchs, there's corruption, there's all kinds of problems, but the people are trying to live.

And the people and the towns and the villages are working and they just wanted to go along with their lives and feed their families and educate their kids. And there was at least said there were some government reforms that looked like it was happening slowly, but this was not a stable, let's be honest, it wasn't a stable country. Having said that, I'm looking at the situation, I'm trying to figure out, like I said, you try to figure out the off-ramps. If the off-ramp for Putin is he has to take control and put a puppet government in there, then what happens is the military escalation becomes very, very significant in the next 24 to 72 hours, which is what the intelligence agencies are now saying. Well, let's also be very clear that if that's the case, then Zelensky is your target. And that'll be an incredible bad move on Putin's part. He doesn't realize that he is ostracized forever from the international community.

I've never seen the Europeans make such a flip so fast. But look, Jay, I want to make a warning here in that, you know, our news media are all in Ukraine giving us incredible stories and no one with a heart can look at the situation, not want to respond, give money or be outraged or push their government to do something. But you know what?

If all those media went to the Congo next week and started telling us the stories of the Congo, we'd be calling for no-fly zones in the Congo. My question is, when do our policymakers put America first? We have to make decisions on what's best for the national security safety of Americans.

And, you know, unfortunately, Rick, what is that? What is the best for the Americans? If you're putting America first, what's the best thing we should be doing?

What's the best outcome with only a minute left? Well, first of all, I have to say that there are terrible and really terrible choices because of Joe Biden. The best outcome would be to completely replace this White House and diplomatic team and put somebody else in.

But they put us in this terrible situation where we have to answer questions like this, like what now? After all of this time, we wouldn't be in the situation if Donald Trump was in office. But I have to say, I'm against a no-fly zone. I'm against trying to escalate this with the Russians. But if they cross, if the Russians, if Putin crosses into a NATO member country, Article 5 must be enforced. And that's a red line that we cannot back away from. And that's World War III, potentially. I'm not disagreeing.

But this is where this thing can, I mean, one stray missile and you can have a mess. All right, Rick, we appreciate your analysis. As always, they're tough times. And having you on our team to analyze this is very, very helpful. Our members appreciate it.

We thank you. We're going to be joined coming up in just a few minutes by former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Senior Counsel for Global Affairs. With the ACLJ, we have these experts and we have these experts because of your support of the ACLJ. Go to ACLJ.org. Join our team at the ACLJ. Back with more in a moment.

ACLJ.org. keeping you informed and engaged. Now, more than ever, this is Sekulow. And now your host, Jay Sekulow.

Hey, everybody, welcome back to the broadcast. We have got a lot to talk about. We've already been joined by Congressman Walz. We've just finished up our interview with our Senior Advisor for Global Affairs, and that is an international security issues, Rick Rinnell. And in the next segment, we're going to be joined by the former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo.

We're talking about, obviously, Ukraine. There's a historical moment here, and I wanted to get Andy's impression on this. Vladimir Zelensky, do we have any of his speech? I don't know if we have it because it was translated.

We'll check to see if we do. Where he gave a speech was very Churchill-esque. He utilized some of the same phrases that, we will fight them in the air, we will fight them in the seas, famous speech, got a huge standing ovation. I looked at it and said, great speech, great reaction, very dangerous time.

Very dangerous time. That speech, historically, was because of a very dangerous time in England. Yeah, I mean, it was on the eve of the possibility of a Nazi invasion of Britain.

And Hitler and Churchill stepped up to the plate and saved Western civilization, in my opinion. Zelensky is trying to do the same thing in his appeal to the British House of Commons yesterday. You know, usually applause are not permitted in the House of Commons. It's a rare occasion when the Speaker will allow applause in the House of Commons.

You usually hear them say, here, here, when they're in favor of something. But Zelensky very deftly and appropriately took phrases from Churchill's speeches that Jay was alluding to, we will fight them on the bridges, we will fight them in the roads. He knew exactly what he was doing because Britain is a very history-conscious nation. Remember, the war was fought there on British soil in the Battle of Britain in the 1940s, okay?

And he knew exactly what he was doing and he elicited a standing ovation because his country is under attack and the British supported him. But this also means, Jay, that we are at the crossroads of what could escalate into a huge conflagration. Well, that's where this whole issue of Poland changing the deal, the understanding was Poland was going to release its mix to Ukraine. Ukrainians would fly them in to their air stations. And then the Poles, without telling the United States before, say, no, no, no, we're going to ship them to the United States to Remstein Air Force Base. You deal with them there and then you decide how they're deployed, which puts us in direct conflict with the Russians.

And here's the problem. One errant missile, one errant move on a civilian target in a NATO country, and you literally can start a global conflict. So we need to figure out what are the de-escalation points in this to figure out the way out. So when I do a case, I always look for, well, they're not going to buy my whole position.

What's the off-ramp? So if you're Vladimir Putin, the plan was I was going to march into Ukraine and in 48 hours I had Ukraine. Now I'm thinking to myself, I'm Vladimir Putin. I've been in there for 13 days. It's not going great. I've lost a lot of soldiers. It's a bloody mess.

I'm hitting civilians. I'm losing world support. I've got problems here. There are some real issues I'm having.

What's my exit ramp? Zelensky yesterday, he didn't get a lot of attention, said, well, we may agree to not sink Ascension into NATO. Now, would that be enough? And he would go back and pull his troops out?

I don't know. Would it be that Crimea is permanently ceded over to Russia? I'm not saying to do this. I'm just trying to think, what is the off-ramp for Vladimir Putin? Well, a possible off-ramp would be a commitment in writing and enshrined in their constitution. And again, I'm not advocating this, but I'm saying it's a possible off-ramp that the Ukraine will not seek accession to the European community or to NATO, the concession of the Dumbass region, which has essentially been taken over and then taking over Crimea. But will Putin accept this or does he want the whole enchilada as we say? And he may indeed want to have them swallow Ukraine and Moldova before it's over.

We don't know. If you're watching on our social media applications and a lot of you are on Rumble and we appreciate that, and that's our preferred place to go, Facebook, YouTube as well. Share this with your friends. Coming up, the former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, the guy that sat next to Putin, who has negotiated with Vladimir Putin and all the Russian leaders you're talking about. Mike Pompeo has been in the room negotiating.

We're going to get his onsite on all of this. And all of this can happen because you support the work of the ACLJ. So we encourage you to go to ACLJ.org and give your matching donation. It's tax deductible. And whatever you donate, we get a matching gift for ACLJ.org.

Back with more in a moment. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes 100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support.

Take part in our matching challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, the play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Hey, welcome back to the broadcast, everyone. This has been a jam-packed program. We're going to get right to it. We are joined right now by our Senior Counsel of Global Affairs, former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo.

And Mike, I've been laying out a question to a couple of our guests. You're the one that sat in the room with this guy, with Vladimir Putin. He's 13 days into this war. He hasn't taken Kiev yet. He's trying, getting closer. His troops have not performed well. And I'm trying to figure out, do you sense there is any off-ramp for him to stop this aggression, whether it's Zelensky, who mentioned yesterday that he's, you know, they'll consider not requesting ascension into NATO. Is there an off-ramp for Vladimir Putin that he's willing to take?

Do you think you've been in that room with him? You know, the longer this goes on, the less effective his military proves to be, the more he feels like he was lied to by his team, who told him, hey boss, we can knock this out in a week. He will come to see, too, that the West has united.

Good for everyone who stepped up. And mostly the Ukrainian people actually defending their own nation in ways like he almost certainly didn't anticipate. I'm sure he's going to be looking for an out.

But he knows this too, Jay. He knows at this point, there's no back for Vladimir Putin. He has so much blood on his hands. What he's done, the atrocities that have been committed under his orders are at such a level, they're so egregious. You cannot imagine him being back in the G-7, back in the G-20, invited anywhere. He will be a pariah. And for that reason, my sense is he's going to demand an awful lot before he calls off the dogs of war.

So what does an awful lot look like? Does it look like a new government in Ukraine? It looks like what his true objective was, which was to gain political control in Ukraine, whether that's with, you know, the current leadership, but with his guys really pulling all the strings or a completely new leadership, probably immaterial to him in the end, what he has what he has wanted for a long time is the capacity to say, I've restored the greater Russian Empire, I'm now controlling this huge piece of real estate, which is Ukraine, this is not a small country. And I think that's his ultimate objective is going to stay at that until one of two things happens when he either achieves it or second, he no longer has a combat force capable of actually delivering the ultimate solution. So he is either going to achieve this, or there's a lot of Russian soldiers going to die trying. You know, as you know, I do a lot of international law. I've appeared before the International Criminal Court in The Hague three different times, which is unusual for an American lawyer representing US interests representing Israeli interests in various cases. But I'm thinking now that the war crimes that they're trying to put forward, it sounds like, oh, are there war crimes? Sure. Is there an adjudicating body here?

Probably not. That's the reality. So then you look at this move with the aircraft. Poland says, we'll send over the MiGs. Well, then they say, well, we'll send over the MiGs, but not directly to Ukraine. We want to send them to Ramstein Air Force Base, which is US Air Force NATO base controlled by the United States. And then United States, you can retrofit them, get them ready, and you can have the Ukrainian pilots come over and take them out of Ramstein.

Dangerous or not for the United States to do that? Oh, I think there's a way forward here. The shame of it is, Jay, and we talked about this maybe two weeks ago now, that this thing was just beginning to become clear. So much work should have been done so many months ago.

So all of these things could have been done in a quiet way, in a soft way, where there was less risk. Now it's highlighted, it's on the news everywhere. It's going to be very clear. You're going to watch, you know, US Air Force officers waved the airplane off the deck at Ramstein.

It has created an enormous amount of risk at a time that Vladimir Putin feels incredibly threatened. There has to be a way to get this hardware to the Ukrainians. It'll be more complicated. It's not as easy as it sounds. They've got to learn to fly the particular variant there. So there's probably more to it. You got to make sure you can do spare parts and fuel, all the things that go into actually delivering. You got to make sure they can talk to each other.

So it's not just a piece of hardware and jump in. But this is something that's deeply within the agency and capacity of the United States of America. We ought to be doing it, whether it's through our intelligence services doing it equitably or something more open like the polls have been talking about. Yesterday, President Biden announced that he was going to ban oil and gas imports from Russia. But he said that our European partners cannot do the same. So they, you know, failed to secure a coalition.

What does it actually do? Does this do anything to Putin? Is this was this the right move? This is I must say, this is just maddening. We warned them years ago that this would be the situation that being dependent on this energy would put them at this exact risk that we're now living through. So, you know, I guess it's not the right time to say I told you so. But but it does send the lessons to the United States as we move forward about our dependency on others for energy as well. We should all think through that very carefully. So it's not about not about saying, boy, we warned you in that sense, other than to remind folks that there's business, there's there's a deep national security implication indeed, to the in addition to the economic ramifications of not having American energy. Look, but banning rationales, the right thing to do as a moral matter. We saw this in the Trump administration, if you're not prepared to put secondary sanctions on that is to make sure that no one else can buy the oil, either.

And it doesn't have a significant impact. So the Russians will find other markets unless the United States says nope, can't go there. Last thing to say on this is that we did that. And there's a piece in the Wall Street Journal, I think today by Frank Fannin, who was my assistant secretary for energy. And he talks about how we manage this. We were we took 3 million barrels a day off the market between Venezuela and Iran and oil prices fell.

How do we do that? How do we pull all that oil off the market and oil prices still fell? We did it because we had a big impact on the oil American drilling, drilling, drilling at home. We had our friends and allies in Saudi Arabia and other places that produce crude oil, said you've got to go help South Koreans, the Japanese who need access to your product. And we did that diplomatically.

We had a full on campaign to make sure not only that states but the whole world had the energy that it needed. These folks just shot themselves in the foot. They destroyed their relationships in the Middle East. Now they can't even get a phone call returned. This does not bode well. This is this is diplomatic malpractice, to say the least. You're right. And the American people are going to pay the price for that economically, heating their homes and driving their cars. Saudis would not return the call, would not take the call from the President of the United States.

It's pretty amazing. So you were just in Taiwan. You called on the United States to recognize Taiwan as a free sovereign country. First of all, how are the Taiwanese reacting to what's going on with Putin and Russia and Ukraine? Well, they're hardened by the fact that the Ukrainian people have been so successful against the essentially a communist built military machine. It gives them some idea that maybe the Chinese Communist Party's military isn't quite as capable as it's all been built up to be. But more than that, they do see that the United States was late to the game. And they're worried that in defending them and providing the support that they need to defend themselves that the United States might be late to the game as well. It's one of the reasons I wanted to go was to remind them that the United States could be a great security partner for them. One of the things that I believe we now need to do in light of this is being in the mushy middle as Iraq. You can see that with Ukraine.

So we ought to do the common sense thing. Everyone acknowledges there's not an American political leader or anyone with any common sense who says that Taiwan is actually part of the Chinese Communist Party's mainland. We ought to just simply to take the simple step of saying, hey, we're going to recognize them as an independent and sovereign nation, and then provide the Taiwanese the intelligence capabilities they need, the military capabilities they need so that they can prepare for a solid defense so that Xi Jinping will be deterred from doing what Vladimir Putin did in Ukraine. Finally, last question that involves the Iran nuclear deal, that we find out that the Russians are basically our go-between, which is incredible to me. So we've sanctioned Russia while we're about to take off sanctions on Iran. And the Iranians are bragging, as are the Russians, that they out and maneuvered and out-negotiated the United States in this deal. If you are the Israeli military leadership today, or frankly, the military leadership in the Emirates or Saudi Arabia, or any of the Arab nations that have had to confront these Shia theocrats in Iran, if you're Hezbollah or you're the Houthis in Yemen, you are thrilled.

And if you're the Russians, the Iranians and the Chinese, you are chuckling that you have rolled the Americans in Vienna. This is a deal that puts the West, all of us, at risk. It is so disheartening to see what appears to be a shorter deal, a weaker deal, with even less verification. And by 2031, a pathway which would later on have as much enriched material as they wanted.

It's incomprehensible to me. I hope they reconsider. And I hope that, I guess my only other hope is perhaps that Khomeini will reject this deal as well.

I think he might get more. Or now the Russians saying they may want the deal scuttled, so who knows? We appreciate it, Secretary Pompeo, as always, thanks for being with us. And I'm going to tell you this, you look at the situation with Iran, and Andy, we know they are the largest state sponsor of terror in the world. And we're removing sanctions off of them and putting them on to Russia. Not that we shouldn't sanction Russia, I agree with that, but to take it off of the Iranians. Well, it's just what Secretary Pompeo said. This is diplomatic malpractice in the extreme to be in a position where you are using an adversary like the Russians to negotiate on your behalf. Think about that in a deal that would give the Iranians billions of dollars of money in exchange for really nothing but possibly buying oil from them instead of doing what Secretary Pompeo said. Drill, drill, drill.

And I mean in the United States. Well, here's what you got. We don't have time to play it, but I'm going to play it when we come back.

And that is, look, Putin is trying to establish the old USSR. Let's not kid ourselves for a moment. Can we get an off-ramp? We need to be thinking about that. We should always have one, as we said, it should have been planned. But this is complex stuff.

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It's flown by. We're on our last segment. If you want to talk to us, 1-800-684-3110 is the number. That's 800-684-3110. Colonel Westmith has joined us. We're going to the phones again.

800-684-3110. Pete has been holding. Pete, you're on the air. Hi, Jay.

Thanks so much. This is a comment on possible off-ramps for Putin. It doesn't look like he has too many. If he simply stops and takes his army back home, I don't see any way the Ukrainians would get any satisfaction out of that. It would seem like there's so much destruction that's been wrought already that there's really nothing that could happen positive that way. Wait a minute. Are you saying if Putin were to take his troops and leave? Yeah. That would be a win for Ukraine. Let me be clear. And I'll ask Colonel Smith this.

If the Russians decided this wasn't going well enough and even though there's been a lot of destruction, a lot of loss of life, of innocence, if the Russians were to pack up and leave and go back to Russia, oh, I think that's a win. That is absolutely... I don't think it's likely.

No, no. That links his goal. He wants that to happen. Forget reparations.

Forget about immediately how you'd rebuild the country. Here's the thing that's interesting about this though, Jay. Military strength and political will, that is the key to deterrence. If you have a strong military and a geopolitical neighborhood and your enemies believe you're willing to use it, no one wants to pick a fight with you. What has happened with this whole deterrent issue, Jay, is that Putin has turned the tables. Now he is deterring us instead of us deterring him. So here's the... This is an interesting comment from William Burns, CIA director. Take a listen to this.

Number 24. Putin is determined to dominate and control Ukraine to shape its orientation. He's been stewing in a combustible combination of grievance and ambition for many years. But Andy, you talked about this historically. This goes back more than many years.

Oh yeah. I mean, I agree with Ambassador Burns' statement. This is not anything new. Putin is looking to restore the Russian empire under the czarist regime that was established by his namesake, the Prince of Vladimir. And this goes back to the 10th century, 988 with the Christianization of the Rus and their baptism and acceptance of Christianity. Don't think that the Russian Orthodox Church, the official church is not behind Putin. They're behind Putin a hundred percent in this because the Russians became baptized when and where in Kiev, in the caves of Kiev. And he sees this as part of the historical Russian empire and he wants it back. I don't think he's going to retreat, Jay.

I don't think so either. Now the question is, is there an off-ramp? So let's talk about an off-ramp. Is the Ukrainian statement yesterday from Zelensky that they would consider not seeking ascension into NATO, is that enough of an off-ramp for Putin or is he committed to the territorial game? I think that is enough of an off-ramp in the short term. Long-term, I don't think- Explain to me the difference between short term, would that cause his troops to pull out?

Yes. You think it would? I think that's a possible off-ramp for him, for now. However, my concern is going forward, since 2008, this is his third invasion, Putin's third invasion. So going down the road, you look at the other three former Soviet republics that are now part of NATO, you look at Poland, I think his desire and his ambition is going to come into play again. But for now, I'm talking the next year to three years, I think if- So if Zelensky said tomorrow, I'm not going to seek NATO, what do you think Putin does?

Because he said it yesterday. Yes. I think his desire is to take all of Ukraine, but he's been humiliated, his troops are suffering, they estimate between 4,000 and 5,000 Russian soldiers are dead, I think temporarily he backs off. Yeah.

And maybe I tend to think he is so committed to this, and I didn't serve in the military, so Wes's judgment on this is better than mine, but I think he's so committed to this politically that his faith-saving measure here may be something more like this. They put in their constitution, they're not going to seek NATO membership. They can see that Crimea is part of Russia, the two Donbas regions are now part of, not just separate, but part of the Russian country. Maybe that does it, I don't know. Well, I would include those things too, Jeff, I forgot to mention that, absolutely. Oh, okay.

Yeah, all right. Well, then maybe it's like he feels like he got territory and he has some security. On the other hand, I think it's equally plausible that he just ups his... We haven't seen the full Russian military might, have we? No, absolutely not.

He is pulling his punches a bit, believe it or not. So have we seen the full force of the Russian Air Force, Wes? No, absolutely not, and it is a very, very large Air Force. So what can that Air Force do to Ukraine? They can go in, they can establish air superiority, they have not done that, which is a curiosity, because they have the capability.

They didn't think they needed it, that's what I think. Exactly. But they can do that, and then they can all use it, they can use their Air Force to select targets and devastate whatever part of Ukraine they want to devastate. They can also knock out their infrastructure. They can basically do a siege, combining air and ground forces, and they can starve Ukraine into submission. And I think ultimately that may be what his tactic will be. Yeah, but then Zelensky just sends this out.

Okay, this is where I want to take you back a little bit. I know a little bit about Ukraine because I handled an impeachment involving it. Okay, I think Zelensky has done a great job, I think his speeches have been great, the people of Ukraine, as are most of the people of Russia, are good people. But these are not stable governments, these are not non-corrupt, there's corruption in Ukraine, there are oligarchs in Ukraine. But what that does not excuse at all what Vladimir Putin is doing to the people of Ukraine. Okay, but let's know what we're dealing with. I think war crimes have been committed, I'm not sure the ICC is the adjudicating body. But is this tweet just confirmed? This is just confirmed. Zelensky said consultations with European Union partners continue, talked with at the European Council President, discussed sanctions against Russian aggressor, the need for coordinated pressure on Russia to ensure the security of civilian, support for the Ukraine in our struggle, and Ukraine's membership in the European Union.

Andy. Well, of course. That is not what Vladimir Putin, that's not an act of conciliation or reconciliation. First of all, they've not yet let them become a member of the EU.

No, remember, the European Parliament voted overwhelmingly 613 votes to 17 to recommend a candidature to the Ukraine, but that only happens by a vote of the EU member countries. But this tweet does not sound like a person who is prepared to reconcile and to cut a deal with Putin. So then, Wes, you've got the Poland saying we're going to send the MiGs, and then we find out, well, they're going to send the MiGs, but they want to send them through our base in Ramstein in Germany. Dangerous?

Very dangerous, and it's not the way to do it. As the Pentagon has said yesterday, it's not tenable. Poland does not need a middle man on this deal. They have... But they want one.

They do. But as a sovereign nation, they have to make that call. And of course, as you and I have discussed, Jay, the risk is, if Poland were to do that, does Russia then attack Poland, which invokes Article 5 of NATO, and we're still in a larger war? Well, then we're in World War III. Exactly. So Poland may be right to not send them directly. Yes. But that doesn't mean it's right for the United States to send them. And this is very complicated, folks.

Nine-dimensional chess. We're trying to break it down for you. I don't know what's going to happen between today and tomorrow. Like you, I'm praying for peace. I'm praying for the people of Ukraine. I'm praying for the people of Russia. This is not good for anybody.

We had on a friend of ours who is a well-known Ukrainian musician, who also is in a band that's mostly Russian. They're people, and they're being put in horrible. And what's happening with these kids, it's horrible.

But this is failure of policy on a global scale. And what we've got to pray is that we don't end up in World War III with all of this. So again, let's pray for the leaders of these countries.

The heart of the king is in the hands of God. Let's not forget that, and let's not lose hope. Well, that's going to do it for the broadcast today. Again, support the work of the ACLJ. We're in a matching challenge campaign. Just go over to ACLJ.org. If you're in any of our social media applications, we certainly appreciate our friends at Rumble, where we know we're not going to be censored when we're on the air. Make sure you're liking or subscribing to these various feeds. We'll talk to you next time. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org.