Manchin: IRS Spying On Bank Accounts is "Screwed Up"

Today on Sekulow, a key Democrat senator comes out in opposition to the Democrats IRS snooping plan. We'll talk about that more today on Sekulow. Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow. President, I had this conversation. I said, Mr. President, I don't know who put this out and how it got screwed up. And they said, basically, we're going to start looking at $600 transactions.

Even if it's $10,000, okay, that's only $800, $900 a year. And I said, do you understand how messed up that is to think that Uncle Sam's going to be watching Trump and what it does for bankers and this and that? We want to hear from you. Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. I told him, I said, Mr. President, I don't know what happened. This cannot happen.

It's screwed up. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow. Welcome to Sekulow. We are taking your phone calls.

1-800-684-3110. That is Senator Joe Manchin. A key, it would have to be a key Democrat vote to move forward with this $3.5 trillion reconciliation package. Any kind of infrastructure bill and he has now publicly said he came out to the President directly and said this IRS plan, I don't know who wrote this. This is wrong. But we understand this is the IRS snooping plan, the plan that, you know, for initially they wanted for every $600 transaction, that it was an aggregate of $10,000 in transactions trying to, again, put you off the idea where you think, well, I'm not writing a lot of $10,000 checks or making a lot of single time $10,000 transactions. That's not how the law works.

It's an aggregate. So we've now heard from Senator Manchin. This is, again, Than, I know every time when we hear from Senator Manchin, I kind of wanted to do today, the reason why I want to focus in is because now we have a Democrat who's come out publicly in opposition to this, a vote that they must have in Washington, D.C. to move anything forward. So, you know, it's significant, but I think we have to keep watching because whether they try to keep ticking that number up to get people off guard about it, this is a huge potential power grab. He doesn't even mention the fact that to go along with this, to make this work for them, in quotes, they would need 80,000 new IRS agents. Jordan, this is a hugely significant development. I would just say right off the bat, this is a testament to the ACLJ members who have engaged on this in a loud way.

I mean, the idea, not just that a senator, I know Joe Manchin has been at the center of this debate for a long time, but you cannot afford to lose a vote in the United States Senate if you're the Democrats. And he has now said he will not go along with this snooping provision. And Jordan, I think the thing that makes this even more significant is he said this directly to the President of the United States. And what did he say? The President responded to him. He said he thinks that the President responded to him.

I think Joe is correct on this. Jordan, I don't know if you're Democrats, how you back away from Joe Manchin and Joe Biden now being on the record that this is a bad idea to give the IRS this authority. And Jordan, I know this is a little bit behind the scenes, but if this provision comes out of this bill, Democrats have a major problem because they have promised that they are going to, quote, unquote, pay for all the spending that they do in this bill.

Jordan, you and I know that payfors are never actually real. However, this is a ton of money to replace. If this provision comes out of the bill, they've got a big problem pulling this package together.

This is responsible for what they've said would be estimated like $7 trillion. Again, to me, if they feel like there's this issue where there is a tax gap and there's people underreporting and they need, you know, how about just make it easier? Continue to simplify the process. People will then, as they love to say, pay their fair share.

They'll make it easier. You know, I mean, it's to the point now where, you know, if you've got significant transactions moving on, which you definitely would be triggered by this, you're paying people to prepare your taxes to take on that responsibility because of how complicated it is. And you're just trying to comply with the law.

I mean, what they're not saying is they're trying to treat basically the American people like criminals without saying that. But that's how this would usually take. You'd have to get a court order. You'd have to get access to someone's bank account, especially for these low amounts. These are not triggering bank warnings. If you spent $10,000 out of your account over a year, you're not triggering anything at your bank. It's not like a bizarre transaction came up. You get the phone call. We froze your card for right now. Did you make that charge? That's not what we're talking about.

We're talking about $25, $27 a day and they'll have access to your entire account. How significant, how important do you believe this is? Give us a call. 1-800-684-3110. We need to seize on this moment. Build the grassroots pressure. We have our petition up at ACLJ.org. Sign it today.

We'll be right back. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.

But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life changing work.

Become a member today. ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, playing parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift.

Music Alright, welcome back to Secular. We are taking your phone calls to 1-800-684-3110. I want to go to the phones right away because I think Dan is calling from DC and I think it's an important point. It's why we're kind of seizing on this today to put the pressure up. Hey Dan, welcome to Secular.

You're on the air. Hey, thanks for taking my call. Just real quick, I just want to say I am one of Joe Manchin's constituents and we got in this position because he voted down party lines through and through as a Democrat. That's why we're here. And he does the same thing every election time. He just says what the people of West Virginia want to hear and then as soon as he's elected, he's a party man through and through.

So I just got to treat it like Reagan always used to say, trust but verify. After election time comes and he's sticking to his guns and is able to stand up, then maybe I'll believe it. But until then, you know, I just don't buy what this guy is putting out there in front of us.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. This is, to me, the interesting predicament here is Manchin's not up for reelection for another four years if he decides to run again. I don't know that he will, but that's kind of a moot point. The difference, I think, where we have Joe Manchin now is that he is not just like a single opposition to an idea that ultimately his vote can't stop anything. Now his vote is the vote that is most key. His support is most key. So I do think he wields more power than he may have in the past.

I do agree with Dan. I think he's usually been a reliable party-line Democrat vote. At the end of the day, he might complain.

He might, you know, kind of say, I don't love doing this, but this is what we have to do and always some excuse to get there. But I think where his power and his ability to affect change is significantly altered in this Senate. Yeah, I agree with that, Jordan.

I mean, maybe let me start with a couple agreements I have with Dan. I mean, first of all, what he's suggesting about how Joe Manchin operates, that has borne out some this year. I mean, he voted with Democrats to advance the voting rights legislation, the quote-unquote voting rights legislation, after saying he opposed the federal takeover, Jordan. That enabled Democrats to get on that bill and enable all sorts of dangerous things that we've talked about to have a chance on the Senate floor.

And I think Dan's correct on that. The other thing, Jordan, let's say that Senator Manchin gets everything he wants in this reconciliation process and the price tag comes down to $1.5 trillion, which is still an enormous sum. Jordan, we haven't even been able to spend time on the dozens and dozens of hugely problematic provisions that would still be inside that bill.

Maybe we can do that later in the broadcast, but I think Dan's correct on that. You might have an atmospheric of him winning a concession when you still have a largely problematic bill. But all of that said, Jordan, here's the reality. To defeat this IRS snooping provision, you know who we need? We need Joe Manchin.

So despite the fact that I don't trust him on a number of provisions, I still need him to do the right thing when he goes down to the White House and talks to the President. And the result of that conversation that we have today, yes, we're going to have to hold both their feet to the fire, but Jordan, we're in a better position today than we were yesterday because of that conversation. Yesterday, we posted a meme.

I think it was my dad's Instagram or Facebook account. 90,000 likes in a couple of hours. We have almost 90,000 of you on our petition. I encourage you to sign that petition at ACLJ.org. The petition is stop the Biden IRS from spying on your bank account.

ACLJ.org. Let's play the sound from Senator Manchin again. I want to play his response to the question he got. He was at an event because he keys in on the most important aspect, which is how it affects you and the individuals.

Take a listen. President, I had this conversation. I said, Mr. President, I don't know who put this out and how it got screwed up when they said basically we're going to start looking at $600 transactions, even if it's $10,000. Okay.

That's, that's only 800, $900 a year. And I said, do you understand how messed up that is to think that Uncle Sam's going to be watching Trent and what it does for bankers and this and that? I told him, I said, Mr. President, I don't know what happened. This cannot happen. It's screwed up. So he might have more interest for the bankers to me. I mean, she's being lobbied by lots of different interest groups, but Andy, at the end of the day where he doesn't even go is that to do this. So they keep trying to say this is revenue neutral. You know, they're going to get 7 trillion back over a decade, but they need $87 million upfront and 80,000 new bureaucrats who you'll never be able to fire. So basically you're creating and it's like another IRS.

Yes, you are Jordan. You're absolutely correct. You're creating another army and it's a militia. Believe me, the IRS is a military organization. I worked in the United States attorney's office and I can tell you the FBI is not feared. The postal service and inspectors are not feared. ATF is not feared.

The Bureau of Immigrations and Customs is not feared. What people fear, what we as assistant US attorneys feared was the internal revenue service and the enormous power that the IRS agents, both revenue agents and the special agents in the criminal division have. And as my colleague was saying earlier, Wes Smith, when they issue revenue regulations, revenue rulings, they have the force of law. You can't contest these. These are just like statutes. So what you're doing is you're building another army of 80 to 87,000 employees in the United States to spy on you.

And as you said, Jordan, you can't get rid of them. Once these IRS agents are in place and once they're out there doing the bidding of the internal revenue service, you're stuck with them and they're going to be looking at transactions in your bank account, which is going to aggregate 10,000 a year. As Harry Hutchinson said, we spent about $1,400 a month on food. That's $10,000 a year.

The average family is going to spend on grocery bags. You're going to be subject to an audit just because you're living. That's the thing. I mean, Harry, we're getting towards a season where people do spit. I mean, they spit on travel.

You got holiday travel. They spit. And it's not like this is a certain kind of transaction. It's any kind of transaction triggers this. So like Andy said, we're talking about the reason why the opposition, I think we have to be clear, we have to seize on every moment we can, is because this is so dangerous.

We have fought the IRS at the ACLJ directly. Like Andy said, it is the worst. We've cleared people out. They felt like they've lost their power. That's a good thing, I think. And under the Trump administration, we simplified some of the tax code, simplified some of the deduction filing, making it somewhat easier for people. That's the way that if you wanted real reform, you don't need to add 80,000 people.

We've talked about they'd have just a postcard, make the taxes, make the tax code easy. But the danger here is, we're pressing it, but is that it got to this point, the idea that this would be okay, that we would accept this. And now the American people are speaking out. We have Senator Manchin speaking out. This is something, I mean, it's a power grab like we haven't seen before.

Absolutely. So the American people need to rise up. After all, if you look at this particular IRS proposal, essentially the IRS will be monitoring your expenditures on heat, clothing, and food, the basics. So the only individuals who will escape scrutiny by the IRS are either homeless or they're dead.

So I think at the end of the day, we should ensure that this IRS proposal is dead on arrival. Well, listen, I'm going to go to your phone calls. Let's go to Rob in Wyoming on Line 3. If you want to talk to us on air, take a lot of calls. I think the grassroots, the energy here, sign the petition at ACLJ.org, get involved in the broadcast, 1-800-684-3110.

If you're watching online, share it with your friends and family. Hey, Rob, welcome to Sekulow. You're on the air. Good morning. How are you doing? Hey, we're good, Rob.

Good. Well, I own a business. I'm in kind of the oil business. We deal with asphalt and I have about 14 plants around the country. And I can tell you just within the current state of affairs, a lot of them are shutting down because the price of oil is skyrocketing.

And now you're going to add this on top. And I think what you're going to see, because I know we'll probably do it, people are going to withdraw their money from the banks because they're in major fear of what the IRS is going to try to do to you. And they'll start spending cash like they did in the 1930s to pay for everything. That's going to be a major challenge for the banks to come up with that kind of money to pay everybody off.

In fact, I don't even see how they can do it because all the money is invested in land and houses and everything else. But when you come with a demand for your money, and some people have retirement funds, so on and so on, it's going to hurt a lot of people. Listen, we're already going to deal with massive shakeups to our economy. We've seen cryptocurrency, we're seeing all of these new ways, new places to put your money or to hold money or to invest that they haven't quite figured out. And people are still trying to figure out too.

I don't think there's anybody who's an expert yet in that field. But like you said, on top of it, we have, I think Thanh, you mentioned this too, and Senator Manchin mentioned it, I think that's probably where his main opposition, there's grassroots opposition, and then there's the banking opposition too. So your banks and these associations for these banks, Thanh, the burden on them would be tremendous, and of course, they have to shift that cost back to the consumer. Yeah, they're incredibly opposed to it, Jordan. Everyone from the big banks to the small community bankers to the credit unions, they've all weighed in universally opposed to this. They agree with Rob, by the way.

I think that they think a lot of their customers would go away because they wouldn't be willing to comply. And Jordan, if that happens, I mean, the trickle-down devastating impact on the economy, hugely significant. Huge. I mean, so folks, I think we have a moment here. And when I saw Senator Manchin's comments yesterday, I said, you know, we want to take today's show, let's continue to build on this, continue to educate people about the real threat that this poses.

It's not done. So we come back, we're going to go through exactly, this is real, and we've got to fight back, and we've got the momentum building. So let's go to ACLJ.org, sign the petition, we'll be right back. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, playing Parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights, in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena.

And we have an exceptional track record of success. But here's the bottom line, we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today.

ACLJ.org. Welcome back to Sekulow. Secretary Pompeo tweeted out in Hong Kong that the Communist Party of China is forcing banks to report clients they suspect of violating its so-called national security law used to silence its citizens. In Washington, the Democrats are trying to weaponize the IRS to spy on your bank account. This has been a constant tension in our country since the founding of the IRS and the income tax.

It's almost too much of a temptation to utilize in politics. And we've seen the idea of this on both sides of the aisle before, the Watergate years, and the bureaucracy there pushed back. Then we saw the Tea Party groups be targeted that we represented. Again, they were being encouraged to do that by the U.S. Senate and by members of Congress. They were writing letters to the IRS to say you need to go after these grassroots organizations of citizens.

These were, again, they weren't going after the ACLJs of the world who have, well, we've got lots of lawyers that we have lawyers for the organization. They were going after small citizen groups. The idea here, $10,000 more transactions in a year, that's not about going after billionaires. That's not going after billionaires. That's not going after people who make $400,000 a year. That's going after 40 to 50% of the people they think this will impact make under $50,000 a year. That is going after people who don't have the resources to defend themselves against the IRS intrusion.

They don't have a team of lawyers. This is not the big companies, the big organization, or billionaires, or millionaires, or again, people who make $500,000 a year. This is to go after people who don't have the resources to fight the IRS, who don't have the accountants, who thought that they were complying with the law and tried to comply with the rules of the game.

But, you know, Wes, it's the heartland. It's giving the federal government a way in without them having to go to court, without them having to make a case about why they need to get into your account. And we know we can't trust these entities. This would just be, I mean, I can't even imagine giving the IRS to their 80,000 employees. And this all comes at a time when our trust in the federal government by the average American is at an all-time low. And there's a reason why the Internal Revenue Service is the most distrusted department in the nation.

That's with good reason. They have targeted Christians and conservative groups and have been caught doing that, had to admit that. There's little oversight and control. The tax code is so large and complicated till actually it doesn't allow for any meaningful oversight, not meaningful oversight. And as I mentioned, you know, to Andy, their administrative rules they put in place have the force of law without any input from our elected representatives virtually. And so, you know, if you like, you know, an enlarged federal government and then you want to enlarge the IRS, this bill's for you.

But I think if we don't rein in the Internal Revenue Service and these proposals and this crazy bill that's before Congress, we will need to apologize to King George I and for the big, big revolution we caused when we were revolting against his own tax policies for the American colonies. This is a federal government that already is out of control. But these proposals by the Democrats in Congress would make it even more out of control. And as you mentioned, Jordan, it wouldn't just be, you know, targeting corporations and rich people.

It would be targeting virtually every American in the country. Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, we keep talking about the the small amount of transactions because we don't want people to get any. The idea, you know, that $10,000, it's not a single $10,000 transaction, which, by the way, would still snare.

I mean, if they were just going about that way, it would snare millions and millions of Americans in this. But this is an aggregate. This is buying coffee. This is filling up your car with gas.

This is not you have to make some tremendous expenditure. I'm glad you pointed that out, Jordan. We already have on the books a $10,000 suspicious transaction reporting requirement that was put in place years ago, decades ago. Don't confuse that with this, folks. That was to catch people who were trying to launder drug money who were dealing in cash and banks have to report transactions.

In cash, either deposits or are taking withdrawals of $10,000 or more. And those have to be reported. That's not what this is.

CTR reporting is not what this is. This is creating a situation where, as Harry Hutchison said, only the homeless and the dead are exempt. Everybody who uses a bank account is going to spend and flow through that bank account.

$27 a day, $800 a month, $10,000 a year. And you're going to have an army, an army of IRS agents looking at every single transaction you make in a bank account. In other words, I'm predicting that the IRS is going to be moving its offices from where it is right now, downtown in Washington near the Capitol, to the Pentagon. Because that's what basically you're creating is another branch of the military.

Yeah, I mean, it's one thing. When we were working with the Tea Party groups, again, targeted organizations, small to silence. This, again, another attempt to make you think twice before you make that political donation. Make you think twice before making the donation maybe to groups like ours. Because, you know, in the aggregate, again, you don't have to make a lot of major donations. You know, when I'm talking to an audience, I know people who are, these are generous people who support nonprofits, who support their church, who support their community groups, who probably support some political candidates. You put that together in a year, I bet you're spending close to this amount easily on a lot of your giving if you're in that situation where you're able to do that. And you might not even realize, you know, you put it all together because it might be coming from different places and different things and you put it all together. You're easily hitting these thresholds.

Think about your mortgage, your rent, your car payment. This is, again, to ensnare every American and including, especially, specifically Americans who are not going to have the resources to fight back. So, you know, if the IRS really has a problem with this tax gap and they feel like there's $7 trillion out there in unrealized, that they should be taking in through the normal tax code, simplify the tax code, make it easier for people to pay their taxes, then you don't need to add 80,000 people.

I mean, I thought, you know, we're living in the age of artificial intelligence and tech. Why do you need 80,000 more bureaucrats who we can't ever fire, who we put on the payroll of the U.S. government? So, again, we're going to get into this. We're going to continue to take your phone calls. Second F-hour is coming up, 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110. Let me tell you about two things before we go into this next break. First, we're filing today. Remember, the Supreme Court in the Texas abortion case, our brief from the ACLJ, that was just on Friday that the Supreme Court announced that we file Wednesday. The oral argument is on Monday.

By the time we're on the air on Monday, we'll be analyzing that oral argument. So, again, that is a key brief that we're filing. We'll get that up at ACLJ.org as soon as that's filed with the court, at least by tomorrow.

But it will be filed this afternoon. So the ACLJ representing you there, making your voice heard for life in this first of two major cases, November 1st and December 1st, both at the Supreme Court this month of focus on this issue, which is so key to all of us. So, again, I wanted to remind you, we're filing today in that case, so the ACLJ is busy there. On the second front, too, this news is just breaking right before we went on air. Another issue key to all of us is that Iran has announced that they're going back to the table for the nuclear talks. They're rejoining the negotiations. We don't have the details yet on if the U.S. or what the Biden administration paid Iran or what assets they may have unfrozen, but Secretary Pompeo is going to be joining us tomorrow on the broadcast, so we'll definitely be getting into that.

We've got a second half hour, too, if more of that news breaks, we'll get to that as well. And continue to take your phone calls, 1-800-684-3110. Remember, we have a petition directly on this to stop the Biden IRS from spying on your bank account. And for future administrations as well, ACLJ.org sign the petition today. We'll be right back. Thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today, ACLJ.org. Freedom!

Let me play it for you, just in case you're joining us and you're just joining the broadcast. So we talked about this IRS provision. Again, it's not just a bailout of the IRS.

It's like recreating a new federal bureaucracy. It's like putting this new light into basically the 80,000 new employees it would take to enforce a law which would allow the IRS to go into your bank account if you spend $10,000 a year. Or, as Senator Roy Blunt was talking about from Missouri, that if you're working, your income, just that transaction. So from your employer to your bank account. So most of you, if you're working and you're depositing your paycheck in a year, you're definitely making more than $10,000.

You're depositing more than that. That's a transaction for purposes of the law. The understanding of how the provision was written. So first they wanted it to be $600. So basically, that would encompass everything. But then they say, well, we'll make it $10,000 a year. That's basically the same thing.

That's $600 a month. So this idea that they would have access this way, it's not just kind of a boogeyman we're talking about here. I want to go back to Than Bennett because, Than, this is a provision. We've been pounding the pavement on this. We've been building the grassroots opposition to it, educating people about it. But now that we have a Democrat Senator, Joe Manchin, say he's very opposed to it, we'll play that for people in a moment, but it's a time to seize on because they were trying to use this to pay for $7 trillion of their bill. Yeah, I mean, and look, and that was transparent when Secretary Yellen was asked about this provision and whether or not she thought there was an appropriate level for it to be at. I mean, by the way, I think there's no appropriate level for this.

Even if you raise that threshold to a huge number, this is just not the appropriate power to give the IRS. But what did she say? She said, well, look, wages are going to be exempt. But, Jordan, we've dispelled that in a number of ways. You dispelled it by saying if money comes in, then it's going to go out, and that would trigger an audit of your entire account. But look a little bit deeper into what Secretary Yellen said. She said there are two main goals for this provision. The first one, Jordan, is that they would uncover opaque income sources that frequently avoid scrutiny. And the second goal, Jordan, is what you just said, to raise revenue.

So put those two things together. What is Secretary Yellen trying to do? She's trying to find income, allegedly, that has not been reported to raise revenue to pay for this massive $3.5 trillion spending bill. So when you hear Secretary Yellen or President Biden or anybody else say that wages are exempt, Jordan, you have to go another level deeper. Maybe they will exempt the wages from your salary when it comes in. They won't exempt the expenditure. They also won't exempt small business revenue, other revenue that comes in. That would trigger this provision.

And Secretary Yellen admitted it in the statement that she put out. Yeah, I think, listen, they will interpret this as broadly as possible. If you hand this power over to the IRS, you're not going to get the power back. You're creating $80,000, 80,000 new federal bureaucratic enforcement positions costing $87 million. But don't worry, it'll pay itself back because they're going to find all these taxes that are out there. But this is a snooping provision. It's a way to get inside everyone's bank account in the United States of America without having to go to court. Because if they had to go to court, you know, you have to actually make a case.

Why do you actually need this? You have to show cause. Here they would not have to be showing cause.

They just, you would be by your transaction. So we'll play Senator Manchin. We come back. We're going to start taking your phone calls.

We come back to 1-800-684-3110. Let me just remind you too, we're filing today the Texas abortion case. That's the U.S. Supreme Court. On Monday, the oral argument, the briefs are due today. You'll be filing that. And that'll be up at ACLJ.org.

So I would encourage you to check that out as well. And we're going to get into, we're tracking the Iran issue. Iran has announced that they're rejoining the nuclear talks next month. There's not more info than that right now. So we're trying to figure out did the U.S. and the Biden administration send any money, unfreeze any assets to Iran. We haven't gotten the details yet. But Iran has made this announcement.

So when did he kind of get the response back? 1-800-684-3110. If you want to talk to us on air, we'll be right back. Defending your rights in courts, in Congress and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.

But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work.

Become a member today. ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, the play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. We're going to start taking your phone calls now because we have a lot of people who've been hanging on and people who are calling in right now. So let's start with Sandy in Tennessee. Sandy, thanks for holding on. You are on the air.

Hi there, and thank you for taking my call. I just thought it was of interest. I don't know, about a year ago, I made a typo on one of my payroll tax returns with our wonderful IRS. I was notified about it in May of this year when I received a refund check because money that should have gone to one quarter, they thought I overpaid. So anyways, all that to say, I returned the check.

This was in May. The first time when I called to figure out how to resolve this issue, I waited on the phone on hold to talk to an IRS person for no lie. 92 minutes.

92 minutes to tell somebody that I made a typo. When I told them I made the typo, they told me what to do and to send it back in. I sent it back in.

I just received confirmation. This is after three harassing letters telling me that they would begin garnishing our payments that we received from the Department of Energy for our business. The letters harassing us telling us that if we didn't pay back money that we owed for this other quarter where, you know, I made a typo, I put it in the wrong quarter. All of this to say they are already processing at a rate of, their return mail is taking more than 180 days to make it from their mail room to an IRS representative desk. Yeah, well no, it's because it's antiquated and their solutions are still antiquated too. I mean, if they really do believe there's this money out there that is, whether it's just too complicated of a system or people just aren't filing correctly and it's that much seven trillion dollars. Do you need 80,000 new employees? Or maybe you should figure out a better system, a more autonomous system, an easier system instead of allowing the individuals who have biases this kind of unfettered access. This is like deputizing 80,000 new people as law enforcement.

And once they get that access, once you give Washington access like this, you're going to be in serious trouble. Now we do have someone calling in who thinks we are not being accurate. Monty in Oregon on Line 3.

Hey Monty, you're on secular. Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Um, you know, what I wanted to do is just briefly share that yes, I believe that there is a little bit of hyperbole going on here. My background is that I worked for the IRS for 28 years. 10 of that is a tax specialist specializing in complex tax law and the last 15 as a senior field collector for the Internal Revenue Service.

So I know what you're talking about. I agree with some of it, but I believe that there's a little bit of hyperbole here. Where is the hyperbole? Well, the hyperbole, first of all, is that, you know, what I'm hearing is that there's really a desire to vilify the Internal Revenue Service. And I would point out that the Internal Revenue Service is the most efficient federal agency in existence and also the most heavily regulated. Well, I don't want, Monty, I'm not being overly critical of people like you who work for these agencies 20 years out in the field, you're doing your job, you're working hard, and you're trying to follow the rules. This is Washington, D.C., IRS. This is kind of like headquarters at IRS. And the idea is that I think we vilify the IRS because they deserve it. It's not hyperbole.

We've been in court. They got caught going after organizations because of their political views and they still were doing it last year. Last year they did it because, oh, you're a Christian group, that must mean you're a Republican group. But the term Republican, they made their own term sheet and they used a D to represent Republican.

Trying to confuse you with their text. They have been shown to be bad actors. I'm not saying it's all over. Wherever we saw it, Lois Lerner tried to blame the Cincinnati Field Office and they tried to blame the people like Monty who work out in the field who actually are trying to do their job. But it's the Washington, D.C. actors who set the rules of the game, the be on the lookout list, and that is who we're concerned about.

It's kind of like with the issues we have with the FBI under Comey. It was the seventh floor. It wasn't the FBI agents out in the field.

It was Washington, D.C. I want to say to Monty, when I was with the U.S. Attorney's Office, I worked with IRS revenue agents and CID agents and they were some of the finest people that I have ever worked with and they are very good at what they do. What we are saying is the legislation that the Democrats are pushing right now is not that. It's not aimed at attacking how good an IRS or revenue agent is. It is to keep the federal government through the IRS from looking at how we spend our money. That's our business, how we spend our money.

If we want to give it to the Communist Party, if we want to give it to the conservative causes, if we want to give it to the Democrats or the Republicans, if we want to give it to our church, it's our business. This simply weaponizes the Internal Revenue Service and makes them another agency of the federal government spying and snooping on what we do. And you said about efficiency.

Be careful, Monty. When you used the word efficiency, the SS was very efficient. Yeah, I mean, so this is, I get the idea here, Harry, I think that the pressure point, I'm trying to upset people, work inside to try to enforce the rules who are trying to do their job, like Andy said, but this is for Washington, we have seen time after time again problems with the IRS, issues with the IRS, especially out of Washington, D.C. And they're being pushed by House members and Senate members to go after people because of their political views. In fact, they wanted to, this new law, reset the state so that you could go after people because of their political views.

Precisely. So the focus of today's discussion and the focus of the IRS provision in the so-called reconciliation bill is on policy. It is bad policy. So when did Joe Biden campaign on a promise to spy on virtually every transaction that all Americans make? When did Joe Biden campaign on a promise to impose, for instance, a carbon tax in the midst of an energy and inflation crisis with gas prices surging to roughly eight dollars per gallon in California? So the Democrats are basically engaged in an opportunity to grab even more power. They claim on one hand that they are going after the rich. The reality is that they are going after the middle class because if you look at all of the provisions in this reconciliation bill, the Democrats are prepared to give two hundred and twenty two billion dollars to rich Americans as a subsidy for buying electric cars. Meantime, they're demanding that individuals who spend more than eight hundred and thirty four dollars per month, they need to report essentially to the IRS. And so Janet Yellen, who is worth upwards of twenty million dollars herself, is now claiming this provision is necessary.

Why is it necessary? Because in many respects, the Democrats want to squeeze the middle and upper middle class while sparing the rich of actually paying their taxes. We should keep in mind that Warren Buffett, who is one of the richest people in the United States, pays virtually nothing in taxes. And he is prepared to never pay taxes.

Why? Because he's putting his money in a charitable trust fund and that will escape the taxes that he would otherwise owe. So at the end of the day, the rich know how to manipulate the system.

The Democrats, which there are a party that is strongly supported by the rich, they are basically, in my opinion, going after the middle and upper middle class. Let's go to Kim in Colorado online too. Hey Kim, welcome to Secular, you're on the air. Thank you for taking my call. So I just wanted to bring up, I work in compliance for a bank and so I have an additional perspective to add.

Oh, it looks like we lost Kim right there. That is the other big part of this though, Wes, is that the banking industry, I think it helps. When you have the big industry and you have grassroots support for Americans, it makes it much tougher for them to pass these provisions through.

A group of 19 banks just today, the Wall Street Journal reported, that have come online and on the record and saying they are against this. You know, I remember the words of Ronald Reagan who said, you know, the government is not the answer to your problem, the government is the problem. And yet this bill, this reconciliation bill, expands the federal government in ways unheard of in US history.

It also expands the IRS and it certainly, you know, expands the socialistic policies of the left-wing people in Congress so that we will be forever dependent on the government but also forever controlled by the government too. Alright folks, we come back. Final segment is coming up. Go to ACLJ.org. Let me encourage you to sign the petition online. The petition is clear. Stop the Biden IRS from spying on your bank account. And listen, I mean, it's Biden today, tomorrow it's another President. You give this power to Washington DC, I don't, you know, but we've seen the abuse has come from the left. Recent abuse, we've had to go to court, we've had the left targeting the right and these agencies are full of Democrats.

They are 90 plus percent individuals who vote for the Democrat candidates and give to the Democrat candidates when you look at the political fundraising. So, you know, those are just the facts. That's what we've had to deal with. That's why we have to stop this.

We'll be right back on Secular. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe V Wade 40 years later, play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

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Become a member today, ACLJ.org. We're tweaking a little issue with our phone line, so I want to take one of the calls coming in that, again, I think is a really good question because one of the calls coming in was, what is this actually costing? Because the idea is that, oh, this is revenue neutral, this actually pays for itself. But on the front end, they want 80 plus billion dollars to pay for these 80,000 new IRS agents.

So let's go best case scenario first, Jordan. I mean, they say they want a 3.5 trillion dollar reconciliation bill and then a 1.2 bipartisan infrastructure bill. So that's almost 5 billion dollars of cost. Now, then they will come back to you and say what you just said, that it's going to be revenue neutral and that we're going to raise money to, quote unquote, pay for all that spending. So it's not going to cost the taxpayers anything.

Well, Jordan, OK, let's consider that idea. If you're going to raise money by collecting additional tax dollars from the American people, is that costing the American people anything? Where are you getting those additional dollars? You're getting them from the American taxpayer. So all you are saying is you're going to try to raise taxes or increase revenue from the American people at an equivalent level that you would do spending. Jordan, it doesn't change one red cent how much of this is paid for by the American people. So as it sits right now, these two bills together would be four point seven trillion dollars. And here's the other little secret I'd put on top of it. Once these programs make their way into federal law, Jordan, they almost never go away.

And number two, they almost always grow. Yeah, 1-800-6433, which is our number. Let me encourage you, though, if you were going to call it, maybe get your questions on Facebook, Periscope. We're in the final segment. We're going to be spending more time on this. Obviously, we've got this momentum.

I think we have to seize on this moment. I want to play Senator Manchin for you. This is why we're talking about it again today. Senator Manchin was at a meeting in Washington, D.C., gets asked the question.

Here's his response. President, I had this conversation. I said, Mr. President, I don't know who put this out and how it got screwed up when they said basically we're going to start looking at six hundred dollar transactions, even if it's ten thousand dollars.

OK, that's that's only eight hundred, nine hundred dollars a year. And I said, do you understand how messed up that is to think that Uncle Sam's going to be watching and what it does for bankers and this and that? I told him, I said, Mr. President, I don't know what happened. This cannot happen.

It's screwed up. Yes, I mean, there you go. It seems like he's not going for this provision. It's always a nerve wracking with Senator Manchin. But but if we can I think we can kill this provision, you know, then we can move on to the rest of how horrible a lot of these provisions are in this law thing. But that is again, we could go through the list and start going through the list. But I think, you know, we've got to pick off these piece by piece. Yeah, and I think this is probably the most egregious, Jordan.

I really do. I mean, in the wake of the IRS targeting scandal, the very last thing that you should be doing is giving them more authority, especially sweeping authority like this. Look, I don't like a lot of what is in this bill.

And like you, Jordan, you kind of have to take Joe Manchin's temperature day by day. I mean, look, he's not in the right place in the voting rights bill after coming out in an op ed in a West Virginia paper and saying that he was opposed to gutting the filibuster and opposed to the federal takeover elections. Like two weeks later, Jordan, he flip flopped on that.

So I'm not saying walk away from this, but I do love the fact that he got President Biden on the record. I think the hope here in Washington, D.C., Jordan, we've seen this before. The hope was that this provision would be lumped into a huge bill. It would be passed in the middle of it.

Nobody would notice. And only after the fact would people object. Jordan, people have objected. And now you have the President of the United States and a vote in the United States Senate that they absolutely have to have saying they won't support it with it in there. That's a huge step in the right direction. Yeah, I think, again, if this is if this was allowed to go, Andy, you know, to add this kind of power to the bureaucracy at a time when the trust in government's low. We've seen issues with the IRS. This is the time to stop provisions like this. And it's a divided Congress right now. If we could get that one vote, we could at least at least kill this provision to move on to the rest.

Yeah, if we can. And as we know, Joe Manchin tends to be somewhat flip floppy in his views and in his ideas. He says one thing and then he votes, you know, for cloture. And so he doesn't do the things that you expect him to do, even though he predicts that he will. And he says that he will and asserts that he is. But he's on record right now as telling the President of the United States that this is a and I'm looking it up. This is screwed up. And then he indicated that Biden agreed, saying, I think Joe's right on that, which Joe Joe Biden or Joe Manchin. But one of the Joes is right. And the thing that they're right about is keep the Internal Revenue Service out of snooping on your bank account and monitoring where you spend your money.

That's your business, not the business of the central government. Yeah, I mean, I think, Harry, if this this kind of provision, it's a move, it's a classic Washington move. They got caught. Now they're trying to defend it.

So they did the second classic Washington move is we'll just move up the amount. Maybe you'll think this won't apply to you. But as as everyone is looking at this in the way that this is currently in draft form, is that the people this would affect 40 to 50 percent, $50,000 or less a year. This is right at middle class America. Again, add that number to 75 or 100,000.

You're starting, you know, you get to 80 percent. Absolutely. So this is classic bait and switch by the Democrats. And they have almost perfected this behavior.

They may indeed have a patent pending before the U.S. Patent Office on bait and switch. So essentially they're claiming to go after the rich. But how do you go after the rich?

You go after individuals who are spending eight hundred and thirty four dollars per month. I would imagine Warren Buffett is shaking in his boots. But at the end of the day, what we should keep in mind and every American in every Hamlet and every city, they should keep this in mind that Joe Biden, the President of the United States, want to wants to look at each and every transaction you make. And at the end of the day, we need to stop it. So I'd encourage the American people to rise up and that they should basically advance with one voice and tell their representatives and also encourage Joe Manchin to stand strong in the face of undue pressure by AOC and the other individuals on the progressive side in the Democratic Party.

This particular provision that we're talking about is simply an abomination. Yeah. Let me just say we are going to stay on this. We take these moments and we enjoy the show. All the show today really focused on this issue because we want to build the grassroots opposition to this. We've got industrial support from the banking industry. We've got the grassroots support. And we have the knowledge to know of the wrongdoing.

There's a reason why. It's not just how I don't like paid. You know, this is not the idea of I don't like paid taxes and not follow the rules or the law. This is an agency which has used those rules, the law, in an abusive way against the American people.

We're going to stay on this. We're going to continue to put out the information online at aclj.org. I encourage you to sign our petition to stop the Biden IRS from spying on your bank account. Almost 100,000 people signed that petition in five days. But I want to really focus in at aclj.org.

Let me just update you again. So, you know, ACLJ today filing in federal court at the U.S. Supreme Court the Texas abortion case. That was just on Friday that briefing schedule came out. The oral argument is on Monday. ACLJ representing the pro-life position that I know you care about deeply in court. That filing will be later on today and then we'll put it up at aclj.org.

I encourage you to check that out as well. We're tracking the news out of Iran that Iran and the EU have announced they're going back to the table on the nuclear discussions. We're trying to see where is there a U.S. piece of this yet and how. That is still unclear but we'll be analyzing it tomorrow. Always encourage you to go to aclj.org to stay up to speed on everything that we're doing. We will talk to you tomorrow.

One second. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights, in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well this is the perfect time to stand with us at aclj.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today. aclj.org