Court Reinstates Texas Heartbeat Bill; DOJ Tries to Block It

This is Jay Sekulow breaking news. After the Fifth Circuit reinstates Texas heartbeat bill, the Department of Justice again tries to block it.

Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow. An appeals court has now reinstated the law which effectively bans most abortions in the state. This comes nearly 48 hours after a judge had halted it. We want to hear from you.

Share and post your comments. Recall 1-800-684-3110. It is likely the Supreme Court will eventually weigh in on the merits of that Texas law and in December the new conservative majority on the bench here will face its first major test on abortion with another case from Mississippi that directly asked the justice to consider overturning Roe v. Wade. And now your host, Jay Sekulow. Talking about up and down and topsy-turvy and talking about bumps in the road, this Texas law has had that, that's for sure.

Let me tell you what's happening. There's a law in Texas, the fetal heartbeat law, that has been challenged and includes now a challenge by the Department of Justice. A judge declared the law unconstitutional. It's made one trip up to the Supreme Court where the Supreme Court let the law go into effect, went back down to the district court. The district court again tried to stop the law and then issued an injunction and now, and this is important to understand what's going on here, the Fifth Circuit has issued a stay again. Let's go right to C.C. Heil, senior counsel for the ACLJ.

C.C., give us the lay of the land right now. This law keeps getting bounced back and forth and it's a, it's a fetal detection of heartbeat is basically when the state of Texas is now recognizing the life of the unborn child as far as abortion goes. But this has gone up and back and probably on its way to the Supreme Court again, I suspect.

But give us the kind of the understanding of the history here. Sure, so just like you said on September 1st, this law went into effect and it bans abortions once a baby's heartbeat is detected. But it puts the enforcement procedure in the hands of individual citizens and so that's what makes it very interesting. And like you said, the abortion advocates, they sued Texas immediately. It went all the way up to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court let it stand on procedural grounds. Now the DOJ has sued Texas and we saw a district judge last Wednesday grant a preliminary injunction in joining the law. But on Friday, Texas went to the Fifth Circuit Appeals Court and the Fifth Circuit Appeals Court granted an administrative stay.

So as it stands right now, this law banning abortions effectively is in effect in Texas. Now the DOJ did answer yesterday and so we will see what the Fifth Circuit says if it can stand or if it'll be enjoined pending this appeal. You know, this goes in a long line of cases involving the life issue that we're involved in. We've got that Eighth Circuit case, of course, representing the state of Montana. We're going to talk later in the broadcast about a pro-life sidewalk counseling cases. By the way, the first series of those cases I started handling in 1988 in front of Judge Nick Lambros, who happens to be Andy, your father-in-law. That's right. But I just, I was just texting your wife and said 1988 is when we first did these. I know we're short on time here but we've been doing this for a long time. Well that's at least 33 years, Jay, and Judge Lambros at that time threw out 400 cases that had been brought by the Solicitor General of Fulton County against sidewalk counselors and abortion clinics saying I'm not going to stop anybody from counseling somebody not to have an abortion and not to kill their child and we won those cases. I'm proud to say that my father-in-law was the state court judge in Fulton County who handled those cases but Jay and you were the chief counsel then and are still the chief counsel now 33 years later still fighting the bigger organization now than it was then. I'll tell you that. Somewhat bigger. Don't forget the humble beginnings and but and here we are we're gonna talk later in the broadcast about that Rick Rinnells also joining us so Logan we've got a jam-packed program. That's right we do lots of guests coming on the show is going on for the next hour and if you would be a part of it you can right now if you're watching on social media which by the way if you're listening on radio you can actually watch and see us in studio each and every day that's on our social media accounts Facebook Instagram on Twitter you can also find us on YouTube broadcasting live you're watching on all those interact with it like share subscribe do all those things make sure more people see it and if you want to be on the air yourself you can be 1-800-684-3110 you have something to say about this 1-800-684-3110 we'll be right back the challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values our freedoms our constitutional rights are under attack it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice for decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms defending your rights in courts in Congress and in the public arena and we have an exceptional track record of success but here's the bottom line we could not do our work without your support we remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms that remains our top priority especially now during these challenging times the American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work become a member today ACLJ.org only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive and that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life we've created a free powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn it's called Mission Life it will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support and the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists the ramifications of Roe v Wade 40 years later play on Parenthood's role in the abortion industry and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift welcome back to secular we are taking your calls at 1-800-684-3110 some phone lines are open right now if you want to be on the air it's a great time to call and we also be joined later on by Rick Grinnell and dad we are currently discussing what happened in the courts which is you know it keeps going back and forth if you think you're watching a replay you're not we're live right now because last week we said that the Texas law was removed and now it's back in place maybe you can give people sort of a run through of how that works leaning towards what everyone assumes is the inevitable United States Supreme Court case and do we live in a time where all of this I think a lot of people see is necessary to have all of these circuit courts to eventually when we all know where this is going the circuit court service of a valid purpose and that is the Supreme Court can only hear about 100 cases a year and Logan as you know they're not even hearing that right now they're hearing more like 90 and so the circuit courts are where most of these cases are adjudicated finally but let's you're absolutely correct when it comes to the issue of the right to life those cases as you know because I've done so many of those at the Supreme Court those cases tend to continue all the way to the Supreme Court this one that already had so this one's had a kind of an interesting history because if you look at the case here's what's happened you know they passed this heartbeat bill in Texas it was immediately challenged judge struck it down they went to the Fifth Circuit Texas did what got a stay at the Fifth Circuit objections were amazed when it went on bonk and then they went to ultimately Supreme Court Supreme Court allowed the state to take place did not address the merits so we'll address the merits later but they didn't see anything that was worthy of a stay of the of the of the law being put in place then Texas and then with the Department of Justice the Department of Justice comes in against Texas as if Planned Parenthood can't handle it themselves and judge reissues the injunction Texas takes it up to the Fifth Circuit Fifth Circuit issues an administrative statement let me go to fan Bennett here because you know it's it's ironic that Planned Parenthood needed the help of the Department of Justice here pretty big organizations they have the right to do with DOJ to enter into it obviously but it just tells you where they're with the where the administration is on these issues and frankly what the outcome is going to be as far as their staying involvement the Department of Justice isn't to stay engaged in this well the abortion Lobby is an enormous force in Washington DC as you know jamming I would take it all the way back to when Joe Biden was running for President they essentially got him to reverse four decades of abortion policy his view on the Hyde Amendment his view on whether or not taxpayers should have to fund abortion but I think it's particularly ironic when you talk about these line of cases Jay because we're at our point in our nation's history where this debate over when life begins and when life in the womb merits protection is really raging in the States I mean we're talking about the Texas law today that protects life after a heartbeat but you've also got that law in Mississippi that's heading for the Supreme Court they would restrict abortion after 15 weeks of age so you really are seeing the process play out in a way that our founders envisioned but what are they doing in Washington DC Jay the House of Representatives has actually already passed a bill and Leader Schumer has said he is going to call it for a vote in the United States Senate in the coming weeks that would do what Jay it would codify row and it would say all of these restrictions all of this debate that's happening in the States that would be preempted so Jay the Mississippi law would go off the books the Texas law would go off the books the other laws would go off the books and by the way it's not just restrictions that protect the life of the unborn Jay it's even safety protocols for women hospital admitting privileges all of those pieces of safety provisions would go off the books if this legislation would pass so it's a coordinated effort on the abortion side in Washington DC Jay there's no doubt about it but then some go to CC how they're the fact of the matter is the ACLJ we're front and center we're representing the state of Montana in a major case at the US Court of Appeals for the a start again right below the Supreme Court dealing with the life issue we've filed briefs and of course the in the case and that's gonna that is the direct challenge CC to Roe vs. Wade so Roe is up for a direct challenge in a case at the Supreme Court that's gonna be heard in December and the ACLJ the European Center for Law and Justice and other entities filed three separate briefs in those cases CC yes of the Dobbs case like you said is going to be heard in December and we did file three briefs and and the European Center of Law and Justice brief was amazing because it literally states how European law is is better on abortion than American law and I think many people don't understand that because they think that the United States is conservative but we are not conservative on this issue on protecting a baby's life you know Andy you are of course of the Council of Record for our European Center for Law and Justice in that case it's a fascinating brief because it traces the European law on abortion and European law is much more protective of the unborn child than the United States I'm ashamed to say that that's the case J the Europeans have a greater feel for the sanctity of human lives than the United States does we did a survey of the countries in Europe members of the European Union those who are not members of the European Union and in an extensive brief that we filed on behalf of the ECL J the European Center our European arm centered in Strasbourg France in which I am intimately involved in where I will be later next month found that the restrictions on a vote the mall to use the French word or abortion are much stricter and the right and sanctity to life in Europe is much more is much greater in the European countries than in the United States and isn't that a sad commentary on the state of the American legal system and what we feel about life isn't that a sad thing to have to admit I think it is no really is I mean the Europeans you would think you know they seem to be more progressive on so many issues and here you have the United States of America leading the the world as far as not only abortion providers and abortions being done but also the fact that we are the least protective of life and I know we're getting comments are starting to come in Logan and but you know you we have documented our involvement and as I said going back to 1988 I appeared in a in a state court in Fulton County in Atlanta Georgia where Andy's father-in-law was the judge way back then in 1988 Nick Lambros on abortion protests we're going to talk about that later in the broadcast and you know we won 400 cases there in that particular proceeding but the fact of the matter is and you know you grew up with this this has been a focal issue for us for for literally four decades yeah it's been one of the sort of flagship issues of the ACLJ we have documented it many times and you can see a movie we did me it's been ten plus years ago now but it's on ACLJ films org or I'm sorry calm ACLJ films calm and it's the film choosing life which is a history of the pro-life movement up until about ten years ago obviously a lot has changed since then if you want to give yourself sort of a an overview that's available for free on our website as well as our films related to life including abortion Inc which kind of goes into the business side of the of the abortion business and it's pretty interesting and it again our great team here put it together you can find that on ACLJ films calm as well as all our YouTube channel we have so much content or we're talking about it yeah it's been an issue that it's changed a lot as technology has changed people's tone has changed and I think that there is even undercurrents within the church you have to have this discussion now it used to be a pretty black and white issue when it comes to where the church stood on it that's that shifted a lot so you got to change your tactics in the 80s you were out there protesting on the streets and maybe things have to be different now when it comes to how we deal with the life issue holistically well and that holistic aspect of it is more of a CC the medical science has advanced so much for the life of the of the unborn child but that has affected a lot of the ways the states are in fact regulating abortion because the life of the child I mean they're doing surgeries in 20 weeks in utero so that the there are still sidewalk counselors we're going to talk about that at the end of the broadcast or near the end of the broadcast but the fact of the matter is the medical science has advanced so much that arguing that this is not a life really you know that whole argument that this is not a human life makes absolutely no sense when you just look at the science absolutely and I think Planned Parenthood knows that they're losing the battle there people know that this is a baby but they try to spin it and they try to make it about women's rights and a woman's right to access reproductive health care they don't want to talk about this woman is choosing to terminate the life of her child but we see that like in South Dakota where where we are fight are representing South Dakota their common-sense laws in place common-sense laws that require informed consent and if you're ever going to have informed consent it should be when you're making a medical decision to terminate the life of a baby and so we see that states are implementing common-sense laws and I applaud them you know common-sense laws and different kind of laws that you're saying like we're in we're dealing with the VA circuit a really advanced informed consent provision of the Montana statutory scheme and frankly I think it's unique it's important it gives women that maybe in a core situation an opportunity to get counseling as a requirement before they get the abortion that is I thought again these are unique approaches and I think very worthy of fighting and the American Center for Law and Justice our European Center for Law and Justice are all engaged in this issue front and center the I mean we are on top of this folks we are in the in the Supreme Court of the United States with three briefs we're at the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals we're in a trial court we're about in the Third Circuit in New Jersey so we are heavily vested in standing up for life Logan absolutely will be joined in the next segment by Rick Grinnell is it correct just confirming yes the next day Rick Grinnell pretty interesting development it's coming out of the Pentagon as one of the main software chiefs quit claiming that China has already won and he just threw in the towel and said they're the global tech winner compared to what we have to offer here in America we're going to discuss that with Rick Grinnell his thoughts on that coming up someone who would know a lot about that if you have any questions related to that or to the issue of life that we are handling give us a call 1-800-684-3110 that's 1-800-684-3110 also check out aclj.org and as you saw yesterday if you want to be the first to know about our brand new series Revenge of the Taliban go to aclj.org slash Taliban and sign up now only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive and that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life we've created a free powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn it's called mission life it will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support and the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later play on Parenthood's role in the abortion industry and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life request your free copy of mission life today online at aclj.org slash gift the challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values our freedoms our constitutional rights are under attack it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice for decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms defending your rights in courts in Congress and in the public arena and we have an exceptional track record of success but here's the bottom line we could not do our work without your support we remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms that remains our top priority especially now during these challenging times the American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at aclj.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work become a member today aclj.org welcome back to secular we are joined by Rick Grinnell on secular today because this came out and it's something we should talk about pretty aggressively Rick maybe you could give us a brief understanding of this topic but essentially what I told our audience before this was that the Pentagon when the software chief said you know what China has won the global tech war I'm out we are I mean look this is really scary when you think about what this means it's an admittance that we're failing and I've tried to say before Russia is a problem but China is a crisis and we've got to be able to understand that American companies that are doing sensitive classified work for the American government should not also be working in China with junior partners if you are a junior partner with someone with a company in China that company is beholden to the Communist Party of China there is no question about that anyone who is listening to their classified intelligence briefings will tell you that this is the way that China is manipulating data and getting the best of us and this individual at the Pentagon who has resigned because the system isn't supporting the changes that he believes we need we can't continue to have Chinese partners when it comes to our drones or our microchips they are using back door techniques to get our information and to get the best of us this is basic I don't understand why Washington can't figure this out I think we gotta get your mic up here you there dad we're having some technical difficulties how about now there we go we got you okay all right so Rick let me ask you this you served as the director of national intelligence I think it's important for our we just say that all the time it's as if everybody knows what that is but people don't will you explain as we talk about this topic what your job was for the administration as the DNI sure what what the director of national intelligence does and and it started after 9-11 when we realized that our intelligence agencies had all the pieces leading up to 9-11 we knew there were bad actors we knew that they were trying to start a sleeper cells in the United States then we knew that they were garnering the programs that they needed to do this attack but we didn't have it all put together a plus B plus C plus D and so George Bush President Bush decided that after 9-11 in order to get agencies to talk amongst themselves intelligence agencies that we should create another bureaucracy to force them to talk now I'm one that doesn't believe that that it works I think that this siloing all of our intelligence agencies is that but the director of national intelligence is in theory supposed to take all of the intelligence from all of the different intelligence agencies of the United States get them talking get them coordinated and to make sure that the programs that we have are not duplicate and that is a real problem because with so many agencies we're having agencies compete against each other and that means wasting tax dollars so the technology chief of the Pentagon resigns and he says I I resigned because we're the Chinese have already beat us we're 20 years behind we've got really low quality low-grade you know internet and and and computer technology going on right now and then makes the decision that that's it he's done and says you know what this is not good for my kids it's not good for my grandkids how serious is this it's very serious because in essence what he is doing that he's he's quitting because he's saying the changes that need to happen are not being done that the system the public policy leaders are not taking the threat seriously and seriously enough and therefore he doesn't want to be a part of something that somehow gives validation to a process that he thinks is on the wrong road that is dangerous and that is somehow moving us towards a a relationship with China where they beat us and he doesn't want to have any part of it but make no mistake Jay he has solutions that he put forward to say this is how we fix the system this is how we can get America away from China to have our process better and no one is listening to him so he resigned question for you you know we have Joe Biden we had we have the administration now meeting with the Taliban we've all these things happening but he announced a virtual summit with China and I was just curious how does that help what's going on now look we've already seen that when the Chinese came to Alaska they lectured us on human rights they are aggressive in their diplomacy they're now threatening Taiwan when we decide to have some sort of a diplomatic zoom meeting with them it's useless we need to have diplomacy that has muscle we need to have US policy that has consequences and that means look I've been a big advocate for for having a law that says if you are an American company working in the United States government contracting world where you have a contract with either DoD the Pentagon the State Department or an intelligence agency if you're an American company do insensitive work for America's intelligence services you should not be allowed to work inside China this is a basic wall that we should have except there are a whole bunch of people in Washington who won't go along with that including Republicans this is not a Republican Democrat issue anymore we've got Republicans who are absolutely against barring US companies from doing business both with China and America on sensitive intelligence contracts and to me that should be instituted immediately you know I I've asked this Rick we only got two minutes left I don't want people to lose hope here that this is a problem we can't get around there are solutions there's no question there are solutions and that means first recognizing that China is a crisis to us that they are trying to grab our data that they are not an honest broker when it comes to what they do you know they don't have a rule of law J but they manipulate our rule of law by suing us in our courts this is something that we can't do we can't sue them in their courts they don't have a process but they will manipulate our process to benefit them they've manipulated the WTO and they manipulate currencies we have to get much more serious about pushing back and having real consequences for China Rick Cornell we appreciate you your comments and insight and of course also appreciate that you're a key part of our our team here at the American Center for Law and Justice at the ACLJ again Rick thanks for being with us great insight Logan we've got a great head next half hour coming up to yep another half hour coming up if you don't get it on your local station if you're listening on the radio you can find us live broadcasting right now if you're hearing it live on Facebook at Facebook comm slash J secular just search for that on YouTube search for the ACLJ channel you'll see we'll broadcasting live there right now the thousands of people you can discuss and you can also see us if you want to be on the air 1-800-684-3110 to have your voice heard on the air we'll continue this conversation about China also talk about the life issue in the Texas bill and how it's been reinstated and taken away and back and said we'll go discuss all of that it's so much more here in the second half hour of secular in the meantime visit ACLJ org not only to support the work here make your financial donations but check out the amazing logs and news stories that can put there check out the amazing video content we again we got the new series revenge of the Taliban coming out in just a few weeks you can find that by signing up to be the first to know at ACLJ org slash Taliban we'll be right back more on secular for decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms defending your rights in courts in Congress and in the public arena the American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ org where you can learn more about our life-changing work become a member today ACLJ dot org you keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever this is secular and now your host Jay secular hi everybody welcome back to the broadcast we know we've covered a lot of material already we just had Rick Rinnell on discussing a major issue of cybersecurity that is very serious our chief technology officer basically for the Pentagon resigns saying that we're so far behind China we're not catching up and and then we've been talking about the life issue but I want to talk about the situation with China for a moment here Logan and get your input it's because this impacts your generation more so than anybody else this was a very troubling development and when the CTO chief technology officer of the Pentagon quits that is a strong and dangerous signal pretty scary to see those headlines coming across saying you know we're now I mean what was the actual word that he said our government systems were kindergarten level and look if you've worked with the government you know that's true sadly I mean I'm sure that there's stuff we don't see but you know dealing with them from a day-to-day basis whether it's the IRS or whether it's you know anything that you've ever had to do a passport system it's all an acquainted and it does feel like we were living in the 80s but when that's confirmed to you by one of the chief you know computer strategist chief software team members of the Pentagon it does make you feel uneasy when they say hey China's one they got global dominance nothing we can do about it I mean look there's nothing wrong with having these conversations talking about it figure out how we can get better we're still one of the global leaders in creating this tech we obviously are then sending it to China to get made but you know that's something that would have to be to fix that salute problem which is manufacturing that is such a huge deal that is something you can't just flip the switch on because again the efficiency the technology it's all being made in China and it's all being done better so it is a concern for sure that yeah I just and then in Washington what's the reaction to the situation with China right now how do you how do you how do you feel about that or how what are you sensing yeah well I think the comments that Rick made about needing a renewed bipartisan focus really people need to take that to heart because look I think there can be we can be lulled to sleep Jay that the threat from China is not as real as it is well we need to say it very plainly they aim to be the world superpower and they aim to do it in the next decade or two and Jay here's the thing they're willing to steal to do it they do it with intellectual property all the time they're willing to subvert to do it they're willing to spy to do it they're willing to take economic advantage and so whether it's this administration the next administration this Congress or the next Congress we need a bipartisan decision to get tough on this to Logan mentioned bringing manufacturing home that's certainly a big part of it to remove leverage from the Chinese but we've also got to get got to get tough on trade we've got to be willing to use a sanction leverage and the other Jay this is something that that you bring up a lot we actually need China but they need us to and in order for us to mutually benefit from each other we can't play by two sets of rules and we need a bipartisan decision to say we're gonna be on Team America we want to be partners with China but we're not gonna let them steal from us to do it we're gonna get tough on them we're gonna make them play by the same set of rules as the rest of the world and Jay when they don't there's gonna be a price to pay Republicans Democrats and independents they should all be on the same page on that front you know Andy we've talked about the situation with China a lot we're looking at some issues right now with China this is a very serious threat I mean one of the most serious global threats we have well it is indeed Jay and one that we did that we have not really focused on in the United States like we should have the events that occurred today when the chief technology officer and the Pentagon quits and says we're nothing more than kindergartners with come with in comparison to the Chinese should scare us to death because in technology that is that that is where the 21st century is added and when we are just likened to kindergartners with respect to the Chinese that should cause us to really take stock of the situation that exists and the one the Biden ministration needs to wake up we can't go through another three and a half years being kindergartners to the Chinese might be an interesting Freedom of Information Act request Logan to find out what kind of emails this former chief technology officer was sending out to get a handle on how bad this situation is we're gonna take a look at that yeah might as well take a look at it who knows what they'll say we always know we get some interesting responses sometimes we keep pushing and keep pushing you get answers if you've got some questions and need answers say it's good segue give us a call 1-800-684-3110 phone lines are open right now if you'd like to be on the air it's a good time to call we like to take as many comments and questions as we can in the back half of the show so 1-800-684-3110 again support the work of ACLJ at ACLJ org like subscribe do all that we'll be right back the challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values our freedoms our constitutional rights are under attack it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice for decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms defending your rights in courts in Congress and in the public arena and we have an exceptional track record of success but here's the bottom line we could not do our work without your support we remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms that remains our top priority especially now during these challenging times the American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work become a member today ACLJ.org only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive and that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life we've created a free powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn it's called Mission Life it will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support and the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists the ramifications of Roe v Wade 40 years later playing Parenthood's role in the abortion industry and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life request your free copy of mission life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift hi everybody welcome back to the broadcast we've been talking about a lot of issues we've talked about China we've talked about the Texas law on abortion we talked about the new case we're doing at the US Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit dealing with the issue of abortion and then we've got another one in the Third Circuit or at least in New Jersey Third Circuit for now probably back to the trial court and as I said at the beginning of the broadcast we have been standing for life including and we've done everything from the modern technology on life and defending the fetal heart pills and that kind of thing to sidewalk counseling and as I said in 1988 we were at Fulton County State Court representing 400 protesters who were speaking out for life including sidewalk counselors they were all charged with crimes we ended up getting a great victory in that case and as I mentioned and the economists father-in-law was the judge is a judge Nick Lambros I'm sure he's smiling down from heaven right now and that was I mean it's hard to believe I Andy will get to Jeff in a second hard to believe that was all those years ago but there it was 33 years ago Jay fighting for life just as you're doing today you were chief counsel of ACLJ then you still are and we were fighting for life before a judge my father-in-law who said very clearly I'm not going to stop anybody from counseling somebody on the street against murder and that's exactly what he said and that's where he put his ruling and his judgment but all those four hundred protesters who were being prosecuted for crimes those were criminal cases J if you know exactly remember no no no exactly go to jail places work so yeah those two Jeff Surtees yeah Jeff Surtees senior counselor the ACLJ that was 32 years ago as Andy said but we've got one right now Jeff give us the background on this case out of New Jersey sure thing Jay yeah the city of Englewood New Jersey adopted an abortion buffer zone ordinance that prevents sidewalk counselors and others from going within eight feet of an abortion clinic entrance or driveway although agents of the clinic J and including so-called escorts are permitted free passage and if you can believe it this ordinance is almost entirely word-for-word the same as the Massachusetts buffer zone law that the Supreme Court unanimously struck down as unconstitutional in 2014 and McCullen 2017 and McCullen v. Coakley when we sued the city on behalf of a longtime sidewalk counselor who in rain cold you know no matter no matter the weather wants to speak with women entering the clinic and like all sidewalk counselors she doesn't want to like show them graphic pictures of things and yell at them or anything like that she simply wants to tell them that God loves them that help is available to them and their children that they are not alone well after extensive paper discovery and numerous depositions multiple rounds of briefing we got summary judgment from the district court it was a resounding victory and the court where the court held that the ordinance violated both the United States and New Jersey constitutions well the city appealed to the Third Circuit Court of Appeals and because of a panel not exactly how shall I say ideologically friendly to our clients position the court reversed the district court now the court didn't uphold the ordinance the court said that the constitutionality of the ordinance couldn't be decided without a trier of fact making certain factual determinations so that's what we're getting ready for now we're currently hard at work on reviewing and putting together the materials that are needed for this preach final pretrial order which is due on December 3rd and then for just four days after that we have a final pretrial conference and the trial is going to be scheduled soon right after that so I think for people to understand Jeff the scope and significance of this you actually maybe there may be a little bit of history here you actually may be trying this case by zoom we may be trying this case by you know we've heard a lot about the Supreme Court doing stuff by teleconference and a lot of the Court of Appeals doing things by by zoom and here we are doing a trial with numerous witnesses numerous documents and all of that all being done via zoom so it's it's it's a new day I mean we'll see how it goes we're working hard to make sure that we have all that technology down we've done a few into a few practice rounds to make sure that it's very different I'll tell you that I've done depositions I did an arraignment on about two weeks ago it's a very different process but Jeff I want to focus on for another moment here that we had been at the ACLJ the fight for life your father-in-law Pat my word this is I know we're bringing up nostalgia here but that Monaghan still the senior counsel with the ACLJ when we mentioned that case in front of Judge Lambros your father-in-law Pat Monaghan and I were cut we're already working together and he was my co-counsel in those days we have been doing this for four decades it's amazing and the fight and you know we have had we've had victories along the way and we've had defeats along the way but we keep fighting every day every month every year we keep fighting not just for the right to life but the right of sidewalk counselors to be able to speak about life you know and it all just goes to show you know that this current administration it used to be we would talk about you know the Clinton administration talk about abortion safe legal and rare that's not we don't have that anymore we now have an all-out all abortion ideology at work in this administration and the current administration doesn't want it and what I'm saying is it they just don't want to ensure access to abortion you know they want to force people into paying for it and in the case of medical professionals they even want to force people into participating in it you know silo counselors are literally on the front lines of sharing the pro-life message for those who need to hear it most and shutting down that speech you know it's it's not just offensive to the right of free speech which you have been working on my father-in-law's been working on for four decades now it's an insult to those women who are entitled to hear that abortion is not their only choice and then actually Jay I have to say it all relates to our case in the eighth circuit representing the state of South Dakota you know abortion is an irrevocable choice with enormous consequences why shouldn't women contemplating this choice be cancelled about the options that are available to them abortion ideal you know ideologues would prefer to keep women in the dark and ignorant of those options and all just goes to show that the pro-life cause which you and others have been working for for decades now is not just for in defense of life the unborn life pro the pro-life cause and those pro life laws are pro woman you know it's it's interesting you said that it's circuit case because there's one where Jeff they just put forward a new idea again like seeing in Texas these are new approaches and this was informed consent where they were before the woman has the actual abortion she would seek counseling that would be provided no cost just to make sure it's not a coerced abortion because that has actually been a serious issue and even that Planned Parenthood and these groups objective they do object because they don't want women to be fully informed of the choice that they are making in the case of Planned Parenthood it's not just that they are 100% behind the abortion ideology is that for every abortion it's money in their pocket and that's how that's how borderline criminal it is and that is how why we should not expect Planned Parenthood agents of Planned Parenthood to be giving counseling we go you know for a woman who's contemplating abortion about her options I mean that's just ridiculous we need an independent third-party counselor who objectively gives the woman or informs the woman of the options that are available to her now if she hears all of that and wants to go through with her choice then that is her decision but right now what we need to do is ensure that women are able to give full and informed consent regarding this irrevocable choice with enormous consequences well I'm going to tell them to tell you this Jeff you've been fighting this now for decades too I mean I you know and I think about you and Jordan and that hold our whole team Eric Zimmerman and Miles Terry this whole group of lawyers in there you know now in their 40s poach some approaching 50 that have been finding this and this fight will continue we are not going to stop this fight and Logan you had mentioned earlier that we have a lot of resources and a lot of content available on this yeah we've had 30 years of our 40 years almost of archived content on this issue starting from the very early days of the pro-life movement to how things have changed and what we're doing now multiple documentaries whether that's choosing life which was the history of sort of the 80s and 90s pro-life original movement sure a lot of you listening we're part of that movement so you can go back we have so much great footage from that time period so it's really interesting to watch you see all kind of crazy it got on both sides very interesting watching and we made that about 10 years ago but it's available on acljfilms.com more recently we did the film abortion Inc which shows sort of more than the CD business side of the abortion industry if you will and then that's available as well on acljfilms.com and on the apps also I believe it's available on the the apps we have developed for Roku and Apple TV you can find that the aclj app but beyond that if you go to aclj.org or find our YouTube or Facebook channel there's so much content on this topic whether that's news and blogs you can read to keep yourself informed whether that's full-length documentaries with clips things you can share look a lot of times you may have have problems to kind of figuring out the words to say when you want to post about this issue it's very sensitive we provide a lot of content a lot of content you can share a lot of news science events that are happening related to the life topic as well as plenty of other topics that are you within the scope of the aclj you can find that aclj.org again follow us on all social media platforms because we're always posting stuff related to this even these when there's these big cases are always smaller ones happening there's obviously historically so many that we we do here petitions you can get involved in plenty other ways at aclj.org that's also you can go to financially support the work of the aclj currently we're in the process of working on a brand new series called revenge of the Taliban you saw clips from it yesterday it's a great multi-part documentary interview series with some of the leading names whether it's the people you hear here like Jay Sekulow, Jordan Sekulow, Rick Grinnell, Mike Pompeo, but other people like Tulsi Gabbard, Senator Langford and Congress person people ever have run out of time I ran out of the list it's too strong we'll be right back only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive and that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life we've created a free powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn it's called mission life it will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support and the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists the ramifications of Roe v Wade 40 years later plan Parenthood's role in the abortion industry and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life request your free copy of mission life today online at ACLJ dot org slash gift the challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values our freedoms our constitutional rights are under attack it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice for decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms defending your rights in courts in Congress and in the public arena and we have an exceptional track record of success but here's the bottom line we could not do our work without your support we remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms that remains our top priority especially now during these challenging times the American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ dot org where you can learn more about our life changing work become a member today ACLJ dot org welcome back to secular we are taking your calls in your comments at 1-800-684-3110 1-800-684-3110 we do have some comments coming in dad I'd like to address this is one from Diane on YouTube she says will the Supreme Court wait to decide to take a case like Texas until they after they've made a decision on the Dobbs case maybe we need to give people a brief background on what the Dobbs case is and how that all works the Supreme Court that's a great question look I think all of the cases including what we just mentioned at the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals the 5th Circuit case will all be impacted directly by Dobbs Dobbs is a case that has actually a direct challenge to the constitutionality of Roe vs. Wade if the Supreme Court and he were to decide Roe is not the approach that would be going forward that they return it to the states all of these laws would then be impacted by what happens in Dobbs Dobbs arguments in December I suspect we don't get opinion probably till June of next year yes I think you're right Jay Dobbs is a critical case it's an extremely critical case because the Supreme Court could very well decide may dodge the issue I don't think it will I think it will decide the constitutionality of Roe vs. Wade and as Justice Thomas has said there is no constitutional provision granting the right to abortion I've read the Constitution I wish somebody who says there is would show me where in the Constitution of the United States the Justice Blackmun came up with this idea that there is a constitutional right to abortion there isn't it's not there it doesn't exist and I want these conservative justices on the Supreme Court to say so well look they have the opportunity to do so Chris Logan that case puts its front and center on Roe vs. Wade but then raised an interesting point in that there's already an attempt by Congress and I think then we need to expand on this a bit to basically undo this decision or at least try to I really think that right I think that change that effort in Washington is is rooted in a motivation because the left and the pro-abortion industry sees the dynamics of this debate shifting toward life I mean you've talked a lot about the medical advances and the fact that when a woman has information they are more and more choosing life so what we're seeing both in Washington and across the country Jay is an effort to call off the debate altogether I mean in the case that you just talked about with Jeff they're trying to call off the debate by not allowing that woman to have the information that she needs to make a decision but here in Washington Jay the bill that has already passed the House of Representatives I call it the abortion on demand act they call it the women's health care protection act Jay it basically says all of that debate across the across the country and all of the state legislatures all the various approaches whether it's safety protocols whether it's a 15-week ban whether it's a ban once you know the most recognizable sign of light of a heartbeat is detected all of those approaches Jay would be thrown off the books it would be the federal government saying you absolutely cannot pass on the state level any restriction for the right to abortion that has already moved through the House of Representatives and Leader Schumer has said he's going to put it on the floor of the United States Senate for a vote very soon so what you have is a situation where the left says well we can't really win the debate over whether or not you should be able to terminate the life of a child with a beating heart so we're gonna end that debate altogether we're gonna pass a law that says all of these state laws are off the book that way we don't have to defend them Jay you got to fight them at all levels in the courts in the federal government in Washington DC and in all of these state legislatures you know and the ACLJ is so uniquely positioned Logan that we can handle the litigation as I said we're in the Supreme Court but three briefs in the Supreme Court on on the abortion case and then of course taking it a step further and that is as Stan said then you got to deal with it in the state legislatures and in the federal Congress we're there on all of these fronts and it's because of the support of our friends around the country that allow us to do this yep absolutely and we do have a couple calls now coming in a couple comments let's go ahead and take some of these calls and some of very nuanced let's go ahead and try it let's go Janet in Pennsylvania line one you're on the air I'd like an answer from the pro-choice people if you don't respect life before birth why respect life after birth shouldn't a woman have the right to terminate the life of her baby say up to one month of age if she realizes caring for her baby becomes too overwhelming there's no difference this conversation obviously comes up a lot it sort of is a conversation that both sides have you know what's often said to the pro-life movement which is what you only care about the baby when the woman is pregnant you don't care about it after then you get the other side of the argument saying this situation looks like why we're not sure if you care about it when after the baby is born and what if you want to make that call obviously we had sort of those disturbing comments that came out of the state of Virginia last year from Governor Northam yeah so dad it's not that far-fetched to even think about those things yeah and the truth of the matter is that I think all of these issues are gonna I mean there's so much depending first of all there's so much riding on the Dobbs case because if there was ever a chance for Roe vs. Wade to be overturned this is going to be it I mean Andy you've got the most conservative Supreme Court we've had in our lifetime and you've got the issue squarely in front of the court so when you put those two together that and then every question you have about what the state's can or cannot do are going to be answered there yeah that's absolutely right Jay the the Roe v. Wade decision in the 1970s and the companion case came out of Georgia no one remembers that Doe v. Bolton which was part of the Roe v. Wade litigation is now squarely before the Supreme Court if the Supreme Court wants to take it you know the court can do what it wants to do but if it wants to take it it can squarely take it we have thanks to President Trump let's not forget it thanks to President Trump a conservative majority on that court a pro-life majority on that court which we hope will now say that Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided like other cases that were before the Supreme Court and that these now are matters that are do not that there was not a constitutional right and is not a constitutional right to abortion and that these matters should be left to the discretion of the sovereign states and I just got we go ahead I could we just got word that the acting Solicitor General of the United States is going to participate in oral argument they've got additional time also granted for that argument go ahead Logan no it's gonna ask simply about that we got two minutes now so you have the most conservative you know court in our lifetime you have this case up there how do they blow it how does this become something where you get up there oh just pressure what is it well you know I mean you know the court supposed to be above politics and above pressure and they try to avoid listen the Roberts Court has tried to avoid major issues now in this one it's pretty hard to avoid it out to be quite frank but you don't know if they're gonna come up with some procedural ruling or something it doesn't appear that's the case it appears that what we are seeing is in fact going to be the answer as to whether Roe versus Wade is the constitutional framework going forward on the abortion issue we're gonna know that literally in a matter of months everybody needs to be in prayer this is your our teams at the ACLJ are really heavily involved in this as you can imagine and as Jeff Surtee said this has been going on for four decades and our work and we'll continue in Washington and around the globe actually as we stand for life I think what's always important is to watch for the Supreme Court when a decision comes out to give it a minute because half the time it says you won and you lost and the other time you lost and you actually won so never you ever know what's in those documents we've seen that happen on the news countless times over the last few years especially with the Roberts Court so we'll see what happens hey if you want to support the work of the ACLJ you can do it right now go to ACLJ org you can make your donation you keep make it recurring you can support the work not only that we do legally but obviously keeping this show on the air keeping our film studio it's going keeping all that we have going on here at the ACLJ running for you so great content you know this is an advertisement driven shows these aren't it's a different type of work here at the ACLJ so we could use your support at ACLJ org don't go there just to donate go there because each and every day we put up incredible comment commentary for some of the top leaders in this entire country but ACLJ org to see that obviously check out the show each and every day Monday through Friday subscribe like do all those things on social media to keep it going and engage with your friends on these issues we'll talk to you tomorrow on secular for decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms defending your rights in courts in Congress and in the public arena the American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ org where you can learn more about our life-changing work become a member today ACLJ org