The IRS Scandal of the Century

Today on Jay Sekulow Live, the IRS scandal of the century.

We'll talk about that and more. Take your phone calls on Jay Sekulow Live. Live from Washington DC, Jay Sekulow Live. Phone lines are open for your questions right now. Call 1-800-684-3110. That's 1-800-684-3110.

And now your host, Jordan Sekulow. It started over a seven year span of representing clients targeted by the IRS. The ACLJ represented more than 41 Tea Party and conservative groups from more than 22 states. Sound familiar to what we're doing with these parents right now? Sound familiar with how we've been fighting the deep state? This was the first shot fired back at the deep state and it was fired by the American Center for Law and Justice. Against the biggest agency to deal with and that is the Internal Revenue Service.

That's right. The most feared, well it used to be the most feared until the Washington Post said because of what we did to it, the ACLJ, it was gutted and it still is to this day. So from April 2010 to May of 2013 our clients received 117 targeting letters from IRS officials. These questionnaires demanded that our clients set aside their constitutional rights at the request of government bureaucracy. 18 of those letters of course were signed by Lois Lerner herself. Forty two letters sent to 28 of our clients after May of 2012 when the IRS claims their discriminatory heightened scrutiny had ended.

So they were still doing it. They asked about things like prayers. They asked for donor lists.

They asked for text of speeches. These were both 501c3, 501c4 groups and some groups who just because they had the name Liberty in their title got caught up in this targeting scheme by the top officials at the IRS. We exposed how Lois Lerner really wanted to move from the bureaucracy into the Obama administration and then we had the FBI try to get involved with our clients. Yeah well it's because what happened was the FBI was notified because of Lois Lerner. Lois Lerner said let's get the FBI and the FEC involved in this and we can just bring one criminal case and we have all these letters and we got all this from FOIA and from our litigation.

If we could get one criminal case against one of these Tea Party groups we'll stop their influence. That was the position that was being advocated at that point by the Department of the Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service. Now what's also interesting there is that we did a frontal attack on this. We went to federal court seeking injunctive relief, monetary damages and so forth.

Now here's what's so interesting. The fact that the IRS finally after years of litigation conceded their error, corrected the policies, implemented new procedures, consented to an injunction tells you how serious this really was. It was wrongdoing at the highest highest level of the Internal Revenue Service and the ACLJ got to the bottom of it.

Why am I talking about that today? Because it's whether it's the IRS or what's been going on with Flynn or the unmasking. We have been involved and we've been the leaders in these issues for decades.

Yes this came to a close not that long ago but you might you know you need a reminder. It was December of 2017 when we posted on ACLJ.org that five years ago no one would have believed that this victory was possible. That we were taking on the Obama administration's IRS, the most feared bureaucratic agency in federal court over the politically motivated targeting of conservative and Tea Party groups. And by the way all those bad actors at the IRS are gone now, long gone now.

And our lawsuit not only prompted the IRS to admit in federal court that it wrongfully targeted these groups during the Obama administration but also issued an apology to our clients for doing so and in addition the IRS consented to a court order prohibiting it from ever engaging in this form of unconstitutional discrimination in the future or else the IRS admits that it targeted the concerns and Tea Party groups based on their viewpoints. Now we have put together over these years a documentary that covers all of this. It's available now at ACLJfilms.com for free or if you have Amazon Prime it's free there.

It's called Targeting Us, The People's Fight Against the IRS. And this is a timely moment to watch this documentary. I'll tell you something folks, if you want to get, feel like you're in the battle, get this video, watch it.

ACLJfilms.com or Amazon Prime, Targeting Us. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights, in courts, in Congress and in the public arena.

And we have an exceptional track record of success. But here's the bottom line, we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life changing work.

Become a member today. ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, Planned Parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. All right, welcome back to Jay Sekio Live.

This is Jordan Sekio. We are taking your phone calls too because this really was the beginning of the battle against the deep state. It was under the Obama administration, so the battle was that much tougher because you didn't have allies at the Department of Justice.

You didn't have an ally. I mean, you were fighting the IRS. The FBI tried to go after our clients.

Sound familiar again? They tried to go after Mike. They still are. Mike Flynn, you know, President Trump. Same tactics. Yeah, but they were working together.

Oh, yeah. I mean, remember, I remember the day in Washington, D.C., Dad, when we were at our D.C. office and the FBI wanted to interview some of our clients. And we said, we are no longer cooperating with the IRS. We're going to court.

Right. We were negotiating. The FBI was saying, well, they were interviewing one of our clients because if there was any potential wrongdoing, they wanted to get to the bottom of it. Right, just like Mike Flynn. My trust level was zero at that point. Your trust level was zero. Never three, Mike Flynn. That was before all of this.

Ten years before. And we said we met with them. We did not let them meet with our clients. And we said, you know, we're not doing that. We are not going to participate in this because we think it's a charade. They would never tell us exactly what the point was, exactly what they were looking at was, and we were not going to put our clients in that situation. So what did we do? We went to federal court. You know what we ultimately got?

I'm going to play this soundbite first. And that is the IRS started doing this in 2010. So we're talking about 10 years ago. And for over two years, the media thought it was just a silly conspiracy theory. This is a bunch of right-wingers. They don't know what they're doing, but you know what it ended up resulting in? This.

They used names like Tea Party or Patriots, and they selected cases simply because the application had those names in the title. That was wrong. The IRS would like to apologize for that. Yeah. Well, first of all, I always said, and I'll say it again, that apology was not accepted.

We went to federal court to get justice. That's number one. Number two, they, they is what Lois Lerner said. She's the head of tax exempt. They, you mean you.

You came up with a be on the lookout list, a bolo list. So why are we bringing it up today? Because we've seen a culmination over the last months of all these faux investigations, Mueller and Ukraine and the Russia gate, and it ends up being nothing.

What happens each and every time? This is, you know, sometimes it's Congress, sometimes it's deep state actors. Here's one where it was not to a President.

It was to you. That's why we've named the film Targeting Us, the people's fight against the IRS. And it's available at ACLJfilms.com or Amazon prime. And by the way, if you go to ACLJfilms.com or on Amazon prime and look it up, you're going to see a lot of movies, several movies by the ACLJ. And we want to encourage you. We do these documentaries to watch them. You're going to see bits and pizzas of it and hear bits and pizzas of it today, but it is definitely worth watching.

You're going to learn a lot about what's happening. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is something, again, I want to, I mean, are we ready to start playing some clips for folks?

Let's do it. I mean, just so you get a sense, if you're listening, you're going to get a sense of, of what you will be seeing. Cause this is, this is visual too. But if you're watching on Facebook and Periscope as well, we wanted to just kind of give you some glimpse into why, because again, you know, I go back, it was like when I was talking to Sean Hannity about his book and, and how sometimes you've got to, you've got to take the time to retell stories because there's so many facts over such a long period of time and you don't want to forget because you don't want history to repeat itself. And, and we don't want to have to continue battling the deep state forever. And, and so take a listen from the new documentary available at acljfilms.com or Amazon prime. It's free targeting us, the people's fight against the IRS and guys make sure I tweet out the link right after the show to the, to our website so that people can see the film targeting us, the people's fight against the IRS.

Here's the first video clip, the opening sequence of the film. Ms. Lerner, why would you say tea party cases were very dangerous? On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and declined to answer that question. They knew they were breaking the law. They knew they were violating our rights. There were some boneheaded decisions out of a local office. But no mass corruption.

Not even mass corruption, not even a smidgen of corruption. It was the tip of the iceberg. It was far worse than even we expected.

The IRS has finally released a list of political groups it has scrutinized. It was something that no one could believe our government was even capable of doing. They have way too much power and no accountability. Never before has the federal government tried to muzzle everyday Americans solely because of their political view. That is as wrong as it gets. Lois Lerner knew what was coming and it wasn't going to be pretty. We were fighting the United States of America at this point.

We accidentally stumbled into the corruption that is going to be and is the largest scandal in American history. My name is Kevin Kukaji. I'm Toby Marie Walker. Tom Zawistowski. Eric Wilson. Mark Kent. Becky Garretson.

Kara Waddell. And this. And this.

And this. This is our story. This is my story.

This is my story. That movie's called Targeting Us. It's an ACLJ film. If you want to know about the deep state in action, in a real case that went to real court that got a real result, then go to ACLJfilms.com or Amazon Prime, Targeting Us, the people's fight against the IRS.

And by the way, when you support the work of the ACLJ, guess what? We get to produce these documentaries. We're doing a documentary on Brunson. We're working on some other really great creative content. I can't give you the details of it yet, but it's something very innovative that's going to impact your family in a very good way.

So we're very excited about that. Content is important to the ACLJ. When you're supporting the ACLJ at ACLJ.org, you're supporting our work in courts around the country. Here was multifaceted. This movie's the perfect example. Targeting Us, the people's fight against the IRS, the movie, was done to educate people about what was going on. At the same time, your donation support was supporting the movie and the production of the movie.

Guess what else was happening? We were in federal court winning the case, which we ultimately did. So that is your case. That's your support of the ACLJ in action. We had our clients testify before Congress.

You were testifying before Congress. Again, it was kind of a new step for the ACLJ because what happened was back in 2012, we started getting all these contacts. These are small groups. Again, I kind of make the comparison to what we're doing today where we're helping these churches out in California or parents with the education issues. They can't afford law firms. They can't afford attorneys to handle these situations. These were small grassroots groups just trying to get their legal status so they could fundraise, so they could rent buses, so they could get insurance, things like so they could hold events and do so legally. They voluntarily submitted themselves to IRS oversight. They were trying to break the law and we started getting calls and calls and calls and dozens of specific Tea Party groups and other conservative groups that were being harassed. So what happened was they weren't being denied. They just kept getting more questionnaires and finally these groups realized, wait, these questionnaires, this is not the normal IRS procedure.

This is directed at us. We're being targeted, it looks like, so we better talk to some lawyers. So they got to the American Center for Law, Justice and Debt. I mean just to explain to our people where they support the work of the ACLJ, this was just a loan to get to that decision that we read from the IRS, the consent order saying they can never do this again or else and admitting the wrongdoing, admitting changing their procedures, gutting the IRS as the Washington Post called it, really changed how people even view the IRS these days.

It took five years. So I mean it took considerable financial, those donations that come in to the ACLJ. This is five years of work representing, I mean I could go through the list, I mean we have it here.

There's a Colorado 912 Project, the American Patriots Against Government Excess, San Antonio Tea Party, Shenandoah Valley Tea Party Patriots, Watumpka Tea Party, the OKC PIA Association, the Richmond Tea Party, Hawaii Tea Party, Rochester Tea Party. This list goes on for two more pages. For five years we represented all these clients in federal court. So if you think your donations don't matter, folks, they absolutely do. It is the reason why we're able to take down government agencies like the IRS, which we did, and why we're able to fight so hard against the deep state and really put them under a microscope.

What we did, because of the work at the IRS, we decided to open up a unit inside the ACLJ called our Government Affairs Unit. I'm holding in my hand the first of the, this is the most recent report that that committee gives on the Freedom of Information Act litigation in our Government Accountability Project. That's just the beginning.

And I want to tell you something. Your support makes this happen. So again, a huge thank you to all of you for standing with us. So whether it is fighting in court on FISA abuse or whether it is litigating for religious freedom here in the United States around the globe, or standing up for individuals that were targeted by the IRS, your support of the ACLJ makes all the difference. We have that movie available for you for free, ACLJfilms.com or on Amazon Prime. It's called Targeting Us, The People's Fight Against the IRS. We encourage you to watch it, listen to it.

You're going to hear some more excerpts from it today. Yeah, just to remind you about this kind of work, these years-long battles and the work that we're doing on behalf of all these parents right now. We're able to do it at no cost and we're able to take down government agencies and hold them account for their wrongdoing.

Go to ACLJ.org. Donate today. Tax-deductible. We'll be right back.

We'll play more from Targeting Us. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, the Planned Parenthood's role in the abortion industry and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at aclj.org slash gift. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena.

And we have an exceptional track record of success. But here's the bottom line, we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at aclj.org where you can learn more about our life changing work. Become a member today, aclj.org.

Folks, you're watching on Facebook and Periscope, great numbers today. I think people just reminding themselves about this IRS scandal and how bad it was, and then what the ACLJ was able to do to get justice for so many conservative groups. And we got it, we represented the 40 plus groups who were willing to fight out the IRS, but by winning, we really won for so many other groups who maybe were a little bit afraid of taking on the IRS, weren't sure if they wanted to get involved in a legal matter. We see this time and time again at the ACLJ where people are very gung ho at first about filing lawsuits and things like that. And then suddenly when you got to file a lawsuit, hey, it's a big deal, even if it doesn't cost you anything. So the victory though, isn't just for the 41 clients. The victory is for every one of those nonprofits out there on both sides of the aisle. They can't be treated like this by the IRS ever again, or else they're in serious trouble at the IRS.

And the IRS admitted to viewpoint discrimination, viewpoint targeting, but it all started with these letters and I want to play for you. So share this with your friends and family on Facebook and Periscope. This is a great show to share on Facebook and Periscope because it's very visual and it's still good for radio too, because the audio is excellent. This is coming from our documentary. It's out on ACLJfilms.com or on Amazon prime.

It's absolutely free. It's called Targeting Us, The People's Fight Against the IRS. Take a listen because this is how it all started. We go all the way through 2011 and we want to file our taxes. We want to do the right thing. We want to, you know, we're good citizens.

We're trying to help them help us. Nothing until we get into January of 2012. And in January, 2012, I received this letter with a bunch of questions. And as the first correspondence we'd had with them at all, and it came out of the blue. We were just shocked.

I mean, it just came in the mail. And then I started to read these questions and that's when things really got interesting. By that time, it was two years later and we got a letter one after one evening from the IRS saying they wanted all this information.

It was a seven page letter that we all knew and it immediately was not right. We finally get a letter from the IRS telling us that they will not approve our tax exempt status unless we answer almost 90 more questions. Otherwise, if you don't answer these, you're taken out and you can't have a tax exempt status. 30 questions, 70 some sub bullets to it, a total of 88 different inquiries. I do audit litigation for a living against the IRS.

To me, that was like, whoa. The letter that I got from the IRS not only was filled with egregious questions, but it gave me a very short timeline and a window to answer those questions. I came in with the paperwork and I said, something's wrong here.

I don't know what it is. I'm not sure what's going on yet, but this is something's wrong. This is not, they shouldn't even be going in this direction at all. And in these questions were questions about family members of boards. There were questions about donors and activity beyond just the normal list of donors, but what their activities and affiliations were as well.

So again, that is just how it all started. Those letters, letters about family members, letters about donor list, letters about content of speeches. I mean, think about this. How many events do you attend? Like church and political events where do you have a transcript of the speech? I mean, no, especially a very local grassroots. I mean, you have a transcript.

I mean, I have video of it. Even these days with technology, it's very, you know, these were very grassroots organizations and they wanted all they wanted actually in some of the questions they wanted backdoor access to their websites so they could go in and see the, the, the back door of the website to see what was going on, which would give them access to everything the organization done, including decisions they had made like, Hey, we shouldn't be doing this. This would be wrong.

So let's not put this on our website. I mean, that's not illegal to make a decision to say discussions with your board. Right. I mean, so that's what they were. They wanted to see if they could bring criminal charges. You realize that just like they did with Mike Flynn, they were trying to find a way as we found out.

Yeah, we found the emails because we got the FBI, the FBI got involved. How could they bring criminal charges at least against one of these groups so that they'd all back off and that President Obama wouldn't have to deal with them because their idea was if we could get one, just one case, you get one case that goes criminal. That's going to stop all these groups from having any kind of influence.

It'll scare them, which was politically motivated. Jordan said in the order we got the settlement, they said they acknowledged viewpoint discrimination. That is one of the worst forms of discrimination, but like asking for donor list violates the first amendment of the United States Constitution. Who your relatives spoke with on political campaigns violates freedom of association. What elected officials met violates, your members met with violates freedom of association.

What petitions you initiated violated the right to petition your government for a redress of a grievance. But it came to a point where we had to get involved. And you know, it's interesting as well that when you look at the timeline, so 2012, you know, this starts, the letters start, we start getting contacted because of what the IRS did. You know, we went public with this, those giant rallies on Capitol Hill we'd be speaking at with senators and members of Congress and grassroots leaders.

Thousands of people would show up on the grounds of the Capitol right in front of the US Capitol. It was being covered by all the news outlets. Guess what happened in 2014? This backfired on the Obama administration significantly. Not only did Republicans retain control of the House of Representatives, they took back the Senate.

So for President Obama's final two years in office, he had absolutely zero ability to pass any legislation. But I think it is important that how do we get involved? So the groups get the letters, then the ACLJ gets involved.

Yeah, let's go ahead and play it. For years, I had watched Fox News. And of course, Jay is a regular contributor and guest on Fox News. And I had always seen the things that ACLJ represented and the fights that they fight for people that are unlawfully prisoned in other countries and Christian groups. I had always admired him so much.

So Toby had gone through all the work. Well, then one day she called me and I was at one of the hospitals I was working at. She's like, hey, can you jump on a conference call at such and such time? And I'm like, well, I'll be on the road at that time. But if I can call in from the car, yeah, what is it?

She's like, we're going to be talking to the ACLJ and they want several of us on there to listen. I'm like, oh, OK, that's cool. So I left the place I was working at and headed on home.

And I'm going down I-35 and I can remember exactly where I was at. And the conference call started and Jay Sekulow comes on coming out of the speakers in my car. And I was just like, oh, my gosh, he's really talking to us. I remember he was on the call, but he he just he listened.

He didn't even say anything for like, I don't know, half an hour. OK. And these stories are coming through the phone lines from all these people saying, oh, yeah, they want to know what books we were born eating and we want a book report or, you know, we wanted to know how many of your board members have ever run for political office and we want their family name, the names of their family members. And if any of them have run for political office and we want to know if they ever plan to run for political office, you're going, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And Jay Sekulow broke in on the call and he just said, he said, I'm going to tell you right now, we will represent all of you for this. This is completely wrong. This is something that's I've never seen this before.

I've never heard of this before. And the ACLJ is going to stand up and fight for you in this case. And that was a huge relief because until then, we weren't sure how we're going to fight back. What we found out on that large conference call was that everybody was being asked the same thing from all these different offices. They were trying to shut groups down that they disagreed with.

This was very, very serious. All right, the movie is available for free. ACLJfilms.com.

It's called Targeting Us, The People's Fight Against the IRS. It's also available at Amazon Prime, but also support the work of the ACLJ. ACLJ.org makes it all possible. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights, in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today. ACLJ.org.