Welcome in to the Outlaw Lawyers. Coming up today on the program, Supreme Court, Jack Daniel's property versus VIP products. We also will discuss a new North Carolina marijuana bill and North Carolina also has a bill to eliminate pistol permits.
That and much, much more coming up on the Outlaw Lawyers. Joining us from the Moorehead City office is Cassandra Nicholas. I'm Morgan Patrick, consumer advocate. Want to remind you, too, their office is located for Whitaker and Hamer in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina, and Gastonia, as well as the aforementioned Moorehead City. If you are facing a legal situation, we've got a phone number for you, 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186. Just call, leave contact info, and an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch.
And also, you can email your questions to the show, questions at theoutlawlawyer.com. Josh, take it away. All right.
All right. It's another week. We got another show. We got another show full of interesting legal topics to tackle.
But, Joseph, we can never go straight into interesting legal topics right away. Yeah, we got to start out talking about how depressed you were when you came in here. Man, you ever have one of those nights where you wake up, like, I went to bed early, but I woke up, like, every hour, whether it was, you know, I'm getting up there, so whether it was to pee, right? I got to get up and do that every night again. TMI, TMI, TMI. Everybody pees. And then my wife was setting up some kind of fan, and it dropped, like, 82 times in a row.
It was, like, comical how many times it dropped. Wait, while you were sleeping, she's putting a fan up? Yeah, she decided she wanted a fan. We have a lot of fans, right?
We're raised in the South. We got the ceiling fans. I got fans everywhere. You don't sleep with a fan, Joseph? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hang on. I have one.
I don't have, like, a booby trap. We're talking about the actual fans everywhere. Rotating fan, right?
Yeah, we're not talking about, like, you got people cheering you on. Cassandra, you sleep with fans, right? Two.
Yeah. Double fans. So she was trying to get the second fan up and running, and it kept falling down. And she was, like, oh, I hope I didn't wake you up. I was, like, yeah, you woke me up, and you dropped, like, a huge fan.
Who's building fans at night? So I got up this morning, and I felt like I was well-rested. And then I got to the studio, and I, like, left my coffee at home. It's going downhill real fast, but I'm- Well, you came in hot, though.
Like, you come in, and you look like a slug that had salt poured on it. You know, you left your Willie Nelson tumbler last week. I had that upstairs.
I had that upstairs, by the way. Yeah, I got to get that Willie Nelson. Willie Nelson and the family tumbler. Is that what it's called? Tumbler coffee holder? Yeah. Yeah, tumbler. That works.
That works. But anyway, I'm going to find the energy. You found it. I see you guys.
You got a twinkle in them now, man. We're going to persevere, and we're going to get through all this stuff. But what's happening, guys? Y'all doing well?
Yeah. Yeah, I'm good, man. How are you? Other than sleepy. Cassandra's always, you know, Cassandra's remoting in from Morehead City.
She's not in the office with us. Cassandra, are you doing well? I'm great. Weather's good? Weather? Yeah, it's finally getting warm. Spring is in the air. What is warm to you? Because you come from a very cold place. I do. But I moved for a reason.
Like for 80 plus. We're on our way. I went to the pier this weekend and was it was cloudy.
I was on the pier for like 30 minutes. And I am sunburned. My face is peeling. So I'm starting off the season on a great note. I think this I think this weekend I got it in the high 80s. Gonna be nice, man. We're almost there. We're getting there. That's good. I think I think the entire United States needs like a good spring. Yeah, I agree with that. There's a lot of bad stuff in the news.
That's a bad economy news. I think we all just need a good, solid spring weekend at the lake or the beach. I think that's what we need.
Nice. And we got the final four this weekend, too. That's a thing.
Well, I think it's a cool final four because there's no one there that we really expected to be there, which is cool. It's a good point, man. That's a good point. I've been waiting for all the national news outlets to come out and apologize to the ACC, right, since the last power conference standing.
It hasn't happened, though. No, they should, man. We should hold them to it. I don't know how we boycott this radio show until they do it. I don't know how we force their hands, you know.
How about a bunch of letters? Miami and Virginia Tech on the women's side. Yeah, Virginia Tech on the women's side is pretty good, man. I was watching that game the other night. I watch a lot of women's basketball.
Do you? No, no. But I watched that one, man. I watched that one. I had a...
I was... There was a Hurricanes game on. I watch a lot of sports, man. Yeah, I watched a little bit of it. And, man, you know what I noticed about the women's basketball game? This is the only game I've watched this year, and I watched bits and pieces of it. A lot of three-second calls, man.
A whole lot of three-second calls. I saw several. Really?
Yeah, it was very interesting. So it was like in the paint? Yeah, yeah. Three-second call.
No, no, no, no. Three-second call. Guys, it's three seconds in the paint. It used to be the five seconds closely guarded when dribbling, and they changed the rule in college to where I think you have to have the ball... pick the ball up before they'll start the clock counting.
I don't know why we took that away, man. I like that rule. I like the five-second closely guarded rule.
You know, and then the kids... I have to coach a lot of kids' wide basketball these days, and it's a five-second rule in the paint for the kids. And it's not called. You don't see it called in the men's game a lot anymore, you know? You don't see...
I don't think they enforce it properly. That was one that I got a lot of, man. I got several of those calls, man, in the paint. Yeah, it's so... three seconds ain't a lot of time, man. It's fun to camp out down there.
It's just fun to get comfortable. Yeah, but you watch regular season ball, and they're in there a lot longer than three seconds. No, they are. Yeah, I think... Now they're just calling it. Well, the women. They call it for the women's game, man. I think they're sticklers for the rules.
Yeah, I tell you what, man. It's hard to be a referee, you know? I was with an organization where you help coach youth basketball, but you also would step in. Everybody took turns reffing games, and I did that one time.
I reffed like a whole night of like... I think it was eight, nine-year-old league basketball, and this was a while. This isn't like today. Because that's at the age, too, where they're not...
They're just getting the skills to even be able to play what resembles a game of basketball. That's right. Right, so you have to... There's a fine line between... Because you'd call something every play if you wanted to. That's right. So you have to let a lot of stuff go by the nature of the game, or there is no game. It's right. It's just a bunch of kids inbounding the ball. Unless you have integrity, and then you just sit there and you blow every play.
They inbound. You're just telling the parents to shut up. That's got to be one of the most thankless jobs of all time. I bet you that was 2013, 2014. So it's been a while since I had to do that. I will never do that again, man. Yeah, no one's coming up to ref after the nine, ten-year-old basketball game. That was a great... You called a great one.
That was fantastic. It was three games in a row. I think I called the first one, and by the time the last one, man, just between parents and... How many times did you say, sit down and shut up?
Not enough. In this game, we actually threw a parent. There was a parent who had... Anyway, we threw a parent out. Wait, you threw a parent out and they had to feel good?
No, it was terrible. Well, you got them out. You got them out of there.
Was there a kid playing? You don't even know. I don't know. I don't remember.
I just remember having an exit interview when you got back there. I just know... Because I try not to criticize the referees. As an NC State basketball fan, we often criticize the referees right now.
Really? But sometimes the referees aren't above reproach, man, but it's a tough job. That's a tough job, man. That's AI. That's where AI should go. We should get the AI to start refereeing these games, man, calling it by the book. We should get Cassandra's robot dogs in there and calling them. Barking at people. People would... You wouldn't mouth off to a robot dog calling the game. I used to get a lot of texts in my day.
It was a real malady to the refs. I learned, though, man. I eventually learned that it wasn't helpful. It was better than me. You back talk? I can't imagine you back talking. I don't even think I... I don't remember, man. But I knew I learned.
I adapted and it was a few of those texts, man. And I was like, all right, I'm going to be nice to these guys. I'm going to be their friend.
Super sassy. Anyway, the point being the refs are a hard job. Yeah, it's tough. And I think it could be a harder job being a ref for, like, the kids, man. Oh, really?
Yeah, just because, again, you got the... Like you said, you can call something every single play, which I think would be hilarious. Like, you just get out there and no one even... There's zero plays that are completed. It's zero-zero. That's a travel. That's a travel. That's a travel. Another travel.
I think you get to a higher level, too. And it's almost like a game because they were interviewing Danny Hurley, which is Bobby Hurley's brother, who's the head coach at UConn. And they're asking him about the game and how it's being officiated. And he goes, I'm not going to say anything because... And he named the official. He's like, he's right there. He's right there.
And they panned to him, and he's just sitting there laughing, smiling. And so it is a little bit of a game, and you kind of have to give the refs a little bit of a break. And if they make a bad call, guess what? Next time down, you're probably going to get a call. Well, God bless the referees.
I know there's like a nationwide shortage, right? There's some places where they had to cancel leagues because they couldn't find refs. First toilet paper, now referees, man. What's next?
Servers at restaurants. Oh, that's going on right now. Sorry.
Yeah, it's tough. All right, guys. Well, we've got a lot of legal stuff to talk about.
And now that we're properly warmed up, we're up against a break. But next segment, we're going to talk about a Supreme Court case. The United States Supreme Court just had oral arguments last week for a case Jack Daniels properties versus VIP products.
And Cassandra, I think I got this right. VIP products makes, among other things, dog toys. That's correct.
All right. So they have a trademark infringement case where a toy maker made a dog toy that was a little trying to make fun of a Jack Daniels product. It was too similar, and now it's in front of the U.S. Supreme Court.
So I thought that would be fun to talk about trademarks, trademark infringement and dog toys. And we have two laws in North Carolina. One was just sponsored by, I think, like eight or nine NC State legislators. But it's another bill to legalize marijuana in all forms and expunge past criminal offenses. So that's that's definitely worth talking about.
And then there's going to be a lot of changes. It looks like coming up to the pistol permit process in North Carolina. So that was in the news a lot. So that's what we try to do here. We try to pull these items out of the news that kind of have legal context and then kind of fill in that context and cover it like a practicing attorneys would. And so that's what we're going to do today. Morgan, I'll tell you, I think we're going to we're probably going to experience a rating spike, at least in this first or second segment, because we're going to be talking about Jack Daniels and dog toys.
Very popular with so many people out there. The outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, Whitaker and Hamer law firms where you can find them. They're the managing partners. They're practicing attorneys here in North Carolina.
Joining us from the Moorhead City office is Cassandra Nicholas. And again, if you've got a legal situation that you're facing, got some questions, you can always call the firm. Eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six.
That's eight hundred six five nine one one eight six. Leave your contact information briefly what the call's about. And an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can always email your questions to the program. Questions at the outlaw lawyer dot com and we'll use them on a future program. We're back with more outlaw lawyer after this. Welcome back in to the outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer are your host of the managing partners of Whitaker and Hamer law firm, practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina offices located in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina, Gastonia and in Morehead City. And our very own Cassandra Nicholas, an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer joining us from that Moorhead City office. Josh, we've got legalese.
Yeah. So, you know, the U.S. Supreme Court's been in session and they've had a lot of cases going to oral arguments. We don't have a lot of decisions yet. A lot of times on this show, we will wait to talk about a U.S. Supreme Court case until we see what the justices have decided so we can actually read the opinion of the court. Supreme Court's doing that a little differently this year. They're not releasing those as they go.
They're kind of saving them all up and they're going to get released in bunches. But anyway, last week I saw this case and I kind of looked at the oral arguments that were being made. You know, that's what happens at the U.S. Supreme Court.
Eventually you have oral arguments and just like a small claims courtroom here in Wake County, the attorneys, you know, whoever go in there and they make arguments and then the justices get to ask them questions. And so this one was kind of kind of funny. If you're into that, if you're like us and you like to do that kind of stuff, it was.
Yeah. If you like dogs and you like liquor, this is the one for you. So this is this was Jack Daniels properties versus VIP products.
And so the well, I guess, Cassandra, tell us a little bit about what's going on with this one. So the VIP products created a dog toy that looks similar to a Jack Daniels bottle, but there are a number of like notable differences. But the argument is whether like are those differences enough that a reasonable consumer would believe that this product is not made or sponsored by Jack Daniels and is actually a parody of it?
So that's what's being argued. Yeah. Yeah. So this is a dog toy, right? This is a dog toy that has some of the notable trademarks maybe of a Jack Daniels and they have used it on this product. It's real funny, right? You give your it's real funny. You give your dog a dog toy that's a liquor bottle or it looks like a liquor product.
I'm looking at it. And yeah, it's it's very similar. It the pattern, the branding doesn't obviously doesn't say Jack Daniels anywhere emulates the text. Clear picture of a dog not included on the Jack Daniels bottle.
And of course, it's called bad spaniels as opposed to Jack Daniels. And then the text under it is changed. So it says the old number two on your Tennessee carpet. So anyway, you laugh at that.
Exactly. And they and they said, you know, they said it was a parody. And I saw one of the quotes from Kagan, I believe it was said, maybe I maybe I have no sense of humor. I don't see the parody. And if you can't read the old number two on your Tennessee carpet and maybe you don't like poop jokes, right? We're not going to hold that against you, but you can you you can see it.
I will tell you something, man. This is this is not pertaining to this case. But I will tell you, none of those Supreme Court justices probably have a very good sense of humor. They probably have neglected their sense of humor. Because if you do, you get you probably get up there and just make a mockery of it, man.
You can't do that. But, you know, we like to get together. We like to have a good time. We like to we like to we like to be funny.
We like to make light of certain things when it's appropriate. But I talk to a lot of people. We go out, we're talking to a lot of people in our practice.
Right. As lawyers, we consult with a lot of people. We talk to a lot of people. We go out. Right. We we we talk to people.
We party. Is that what you're saying? What I'm saying is, you know, our job, some jobs, you go to your office, you're in your cubicle, you do what you're paid to do and you leave. And you're not really talking to a lot of people. But in our line of work, you know, we talk to large groups of people. We're talking to people every day. And I will tell you, a lot of people maybe do not.
Maybe maybe. What am I trying to say? I know what you're trying to say. You're trying to say a lot of people have no sense of humor. That's right.
Yeah. I was with you. I think comedy in general is lost on on a lot of folks. There's a lot of miserable folks out there, man. A life without humor. I can't. I can't imagine.
What do you do? You just sit around your series all the time. You read the encyclopedia and you're just sad.
Will you just be sad? So Jack Daniels, this is this is where it's come into play. Jack Daniels does not have a sense of humor with this. They see this as a product that's infringing on their trademark. If they ever decide to make a dog toy, maybe they think they'd make something like this. So trademark law is something that's very much protected, especially in the U.S., probably more than anywhere in the world. We have very detailed trademark laws. What's an infringement? What isn't? But parody is is is usually protected.
And that's why, you know, SNL can do certain things with logos. I just saw. Did you see the one with Woody Harrelson? Yeah. You see the one that had the what's the what's the name of that box where you you poop in the box and you send it back and it tests you for colon cancer? What's that called?
I mean, you know, I'm up on a lot of things, but I've been slipping on my poop box research. I mean, you explained it well, though. I know what you're talking about.
Cologuard. But did you see the little skit that Woody Harrelson did? I saw some of his skits. I did. I don't. You're going to have to summarize it.
Well, I'm not going to. Anyway. But anyway, a lot of that stuff was trademarked and they changed. You know, they changed some of the stuff.
Well, SNL does that a lot, too, right? Because it's paired. Sure. Right. It's parody.
It's not just protected. Free speech is protected under the First Amendment. So parody, political speech. Right. If there was some kind of Jack Daniels political.
I don't know which I don't know how it would involve politics, but you could you could use that. Right. So there's a lot of ways that trade what would otherwise be trademark infringement is protected under the First Amendment. And then so that's what Jack Daniels is trying to do. Jack Daniels is trying to say, hey, this isn't parody.
This is a commercial product that was only created to make money. And that's what they're doing. They're making money off of it. It's not parody. It's not political speech.
It shouldn't be protected. And from watching the oral arguments, the Supreme Court really seemed to not see the humor. Some of them didn't. Jack, I like this. The company's attorney writes, Jack Daniels loves dogs and appreciates a good joke as much as anyone. But Jack Daniels likes its customers even more and doesn't want them confused or associating its fine whiskey with dog poop.
That's a real quote, man. And mind you, taking a case to the Supreme Court is not is not a cheap ordeal. So Jack Daniels doesn't like this to the point where they've gone through. Yeah.
District Court Court. I think it's a slippery slope thing, right? Like they you know, the assumption being that like it's not just this dog toy. It's the whole argument that, you know, they can do it.
Anybody can do it, essentially. And money wise, that's on the other side of it, too. Jack Daniels, I don't know, VIP products or whatever, but I just assume Jack Daniels has more money. But the other company wants to keep this specific dog toy so badly that it's willing to not concede all the way to the Supreme Court. This is their number one idea right here.
This is their bread. You honestly don't subscribe to the VIP products, the monthly newsletter. Are they sold out? I mean, if they weren't, if they weren't, they might be new. I can order one right now.
I don't have a dog, but I could someday. I thought it was interesting. You had a lot of companies that that stepped up and filed their amicus briefs and they they wrote in support of Jack Daniels. A lot of these bigger, you know, these bigger labels, Nike, Campbell Soup. I don't know how those two put those together, but a lot of folks wrote in support of Jack Daniels because a lot of, you know, these companies, they work hard on the brand.
And I think they look at it as a potential tarnishing of their brand or confusing folks. I don't, to me, to me, I can, you know, and this is, this goes back to a lot of people don't have sense of humors or a sense of humor. A lot of people that are just stupid to man. None of our listeners, nobody listening to this show, obviously. Smartest show on.
Yeah. Geniuses. But there's a lot of dumb people out there, man. And there are people genuinely like there's somebody who would probably buy this and I can't drink it. You know, I don't know.
I never put it fast anybody. From a non-attorney point of view, is it more precedent? They're very concerned about, I mean, the Nikes and the Campbell Soups. Are we going to see swoosh type chew toys or soup can type chew toys in the future? There's a limit to it, right? Like there is a limit and there's a line to everything. And there's a, there is a, there's a dog toy that you could have a problem with, you know, in this sense that, that, that would not be deemed to be protected free speech. I just don't know if this is, this is the one.
It's such a fine line. There's a lot of alcohol related dog toys. I know you said Cassandra, you only exclusively give your dogs alcohol related dog toys. Isn't that how you say that? There's, there's a White Claw related one that looks exactly like a White Claw can, and it just says pup claw. And that's the only difference.
You know, my dogs all love liquor. That's one thing. There's a, there's a, you know, me and Joe often will watch some pro wrestling, but I know out there somewhere speaking of White Claw, there's a tag team.
Do you ever see his tag team? I don't know, man. You have to give me more than that. You just throw in White Claw. I want everybody to notice just how excited, how excited Josh is. He's about to talk about wrestling. It's not, it's the White Claw. He loves White Claws, man. These guys, these guys, they were like, uh, you know, they were, they're, they're supposed to be like country guys, right? And they're, they're a tag team and they call themselves, uh, the White Claw outlaws. And I always thought that was a really good thing. Is it like a recent thing? I don't know.
I don't think it's super late the past couple of years. They're going to sue, they're going to sue White Claw. That's not parroting, but this is, this is a super fine line to, you know, you, you wouldn't think something like this, the court will radically alter, um, the rules. And I don't know what kind of new tests you create.
I don't know how you, if you decide this is too commercial and this isn't protected, what kind of tests do you put in place to carve it out? So the next case can, you know, you can apply this logic. I mean, that's always the big thing. It's, uh, you hear the Supreme court folks say slippery, we'll say slippery slope, right? It's a slippery slope. Once you say this one thing's not allowed. Well, then somebody is going to bring a case for the thing that's right, right down the mountain.
And do you, do you carve that one off? Well, like you were talking about SNL, like they're not selling a product, but they are potentially tarnishing brands and making money off of it. So it's, uh, I don't know. I think that's one of those things. It's like, uh, you know, some things you just have to protect, even if on the outside, on the, on the outside of the circle, there's some questionable calls in, in, in, in order not to just give it all away.
You kind of have to even protect those. And I think the court here will say, probably say, this is okay. Just to avoid having to create a new test for attorneys or kind of potentially open the flood Gates for more litigation like this. Cause again, the big companies like, like Cassandra said, Jack Daniels has got some money. Um, and Nike's got some money.
So if you give them an opportunity to, uh, Sue folks like VIP products, those certainly can take it's no skin off their back and they're protecting their brand. You're not a Jack Daniels guy. Are you really? Uh, I've never been a Jack Daniels guy.
Me either, man. Yeah. There's, there's a couple of, yeah. Gentlemen, Jack's all right. Right. Once you gentlemen, Jack's fine.
Maybe, but I can't be for you. It's not a white claw. Have one of those.
No, I have never had a white cloth. Seven. Yeah. Wow.
Capri sun. Yeah. Yeah. Delicious.
Drink like 72 of those at once, man. They should make a Capri sun that's marketed. Yeah. Yeah. That's the million dollar idea right there. Alcohol packaged as Capri suns and bigger.
We got to worry about the kids. That's that gets back to like, I used to, I used to work Campbell's smoking cigarettes in high school. I worked at, I worked at Arby's and a lot. I still like Arby's to this day, which is saying something, right? If you work in a restaurant, you still eat their food.
That's pretty, the fact that you named it and you like it, that's good. Don't go the other way. No, no, I enjoy Arby's. I still go to Arby's.
So Arby's is delicious. But when I, when I started working there in high school, they had Hawaiian punch on the soda machine. Yeah. And so this guy there, that's all we drank. We drank.
Oh yeah. Fanta Fanta orange drink or Hawaiian punch constantly. There's this one guy that worked there in the back and he'd come up and he'd fill up. He had his, speaking of tumblers, he had a huge tumbler and this was like the mid nineties, and he would fill it up with Hawaiian punch and he would add mounds of sugar to it.
Nice. Now you got to put the, if you don't put the sugar in there, man, it doesn't, the sugar counteracts the vitamin C and you don't want too much of that. So you put a couple of pounds of sugar in your, in your, and it's perfect, man.
It basically reduces it to the most nutritious thing you can drink. It was delicious. It was delicious. Yeah, man. The outlaw liars, Josh Whitaker, Joe Hamer, and joining us from the Morehead city office, Cassandra Nicholas. I'm Morgan Patrick, consumer advocate. If you've got a legal situation that you are facing and you need some help, you've got a question. You can always call the firm 800-659-1186.
That's 800-659-1186. Leave your contact information briefly what the call is about and an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch. You can always email your questions to the show questions at the outlaw lawyer.com. We're back right after this. The outlaw liars, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, managing partners, Whitaker and Hamer law firm offices located Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay-Varina, Gastonia, and Morehead city, and joining us from the Morehead city office, Cassandra Nicholas.
She is remote. Want to remind you, they are the managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer, Josh and Joe, and practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. If you've got a legal situation you're facing again, we get into all these different topics and you may have a question you need an answer to. You can always call the firm 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186.
Just leave your contact information briefly what the call is about and an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch. And you can always email this show questions at the outlaw lawyer.com. We'll use those questions on a future broadcast.
We're going to get smoking in this next segment. Yeah. Me and Joseph, we've talked about this one a time or two. I think maybe even last week it came up. Did we? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.
It's one of our soapbox issues. Yeah. It's one of we did. I think you're right. I think we did. I think you're right. There's a lot of stuff about it. Yeah. I remember.
Yeah. So this week, just this week, some North Carolina legislators, I think it's seven, eight, maybe nine legislators sponsored a bill. It's odd when you have that many people sponsor a bill.
It's not customary. Usually it's one or two people sponsoring a bill. But we got a lot of people who sponsored a bill to basically legalize certain amounts of marijuana in all forms. This isn't medicinal. This isn't, you know, this is recreational. This is just marijuana in all forms up to a certain amount saying, hey, and really just comparing it to alcohol, which is what I think me and Joseph are doing. You know, at some point, you know why, you know, they just kind of compared it to prohibition. And then you're having folks. This is what we're getting to. You're having folks getting locked up.
Right. We're having to pay police officers to put their lives in jeopardy to arrest people who have a small amount of of marijuana on them. And sometimes that just doesn't make sense to me as an attorney. I don't know, just maybe make sense to you. No, I mean, I always come back to the, you know, you look at it and alcohol being something that's legal that you can drink.
We just did a whole segment talking about how much you love Jack Daniels and you like to pound it and how you want Capri Suns that are alcoholic. And, you know, but but yeah, it's it's not it's kind of nuts to completely keep it illegal, considering the fact that I don't think, you know, there's I don't think there's there's I don't know what kind of at this point in time in this day and age with the availability of marijuana in general with the fact that it's legal in several states, you know, very close by. I don't think folks are having that much trouble finding marijuana that want to find marijuana and smoke marijuana. So I just don't know what I don't know how much benefit the just strict prohibition of marijuana is having at this point.
I could be wrong, especially with the tide of movement like in other states, like we border Virginia and they've already moved on this issue. So anyone attempting to get weed in some sort of easier legal way just needs to cross the border. And that's not to say that anything legal elsewhere, we're going to do it here, you know, if they say it's you know, that's not the that's not really the point. But at the same time, there's there's several other factors that play into it as well.
Right. But I just don't know what what the benefit is to keeping it completely prohibited at this point. And I think you can make an argument that there are several benefits to some form of legalization. Again, you don't you don't say it's the wild west. You don't say anybody can do what they want any time.
But I just don't I don't know what you really lose in that sense. Yeah, I'm usually I'm usually the guy like I think everything was just fine the way it was in like 1987. Right. 1987, everything was fine.
We didn't need to change anything. But I would change I would change this law. Just just what it does to people's records. Right. You know, just people getting tagged with with possession of small amounts and then having to work to expunge that or, you know, you know, I know people who had more than a small amount.
Right. Who've ended up in federal prison. And I just don't know if these are the kind of people, you know, if we're going to have to pay for prison, pay for people to enforce laws. I'm not sure a lot of these folks are getting put away, you know, as a society, if we all came together and looked at it reasonably. I don't know that we'd all agree that this is the best use of our limited resources.
We do have limited resources. That's a good point. And, you know, if you were if you were really making a if you were trying to make a pro marijuana argument, you could argue that there's a potential to generate substantial tax revenue to potentially increase the resources and then double down and use those increased resources for violent crime. And then the other things that you would argue that we should potentially care more about.
But again, we don't we don't take sides here, man. So I'm not making that argument. I'm just saying someone could make that argument and someone could also make the argument that marijuana is terrible and there's there's there's lives that it's ruined.
And I think that's the case. You know, I'm not someone who's going to sit here and say there's there's there's no problem with it whatsoever. Let folks smoke it unfettered, unregulated.
You know, I don't think that's the case either. But I also I think a lot of the things you can say about it, you make the same argument about alcohol very, very easily. And there's to me, you're not these laws aren't seeking to just make it a free for all.
You still have restrictions in place that will be enforced, that will regulate and, you know, keep it out of the hands of the young kids and things like that, the things that we have a societal interest to protect. But you can still get some benefit of it. You're not sending folks to jail for it that, you know, are arguably using it responsibly.
You're generating revenue off of it. I just think there's the pros outweigh the cons potentially. Yeah, I think I think I think at this point in time, there's it's hard to I think it's hard to justify. Honestly, the way that that we control alcohol is a little outdated, too, in North Carolina. But the way we treat alcohol and especially, you know, a drug like marijuana and we talked about gambling a couple of times. You know, the people that want to do those things are going to do those all three of those things at the same time. Sometimes that's right.
The people who want to do those things are going to do those things. I don't know. Fighting those battles is really worthwhile anymore. I think it's a losing battle is what I think it is ultimately, you know, so I don't know. It costs resources, Joshua.
Yeah, it costs resources that, you know, it can ruin lives. And I don't know. Hopefully, hopefully this gets somewhere. I don't know. These are Democratic. I think these are seven Democratic senators who introduced it. I don't know in North Carolina what the official Republican position is on if this is something they would cross the line to support.
But I don't know. There is a dual track with this. You are talking about the bill recently introduced that would legalize just more generally. But just a couple of weeks ago, the medical version of the medical marijuana one passed in the North Carolina Senate.
So there is dual track for legalization, depending on how broadly. Yeah. Yeah.
And it's good. You know, that's I think that's going to be the standard nationwide sooner rather than later. So, you know, I think it's a foregone conclusion at this point. It's just going to happen at some point, one way or the other. At some point, I think that's my that's a prediction that I'm making. Unless some weird, crazy study comes out that says, you know, there's some unforeseen consequences that we don't truly understand.
I don't anticipate that. But, yeah, I think that's the way it's going. I wonder if it will move and flip federally before all states move to legalize. Yeah, that's weird, because, yeah, it's still a controlled substance on the federal level.
And there's been no movement on that issue in a long time, as far as I can tell. You know, they need to go. You know, me and my wife, we like Willie Nelson. We go to a lot of Willie Nelson concerts and there's always a guy. Yeah, there's always a guy at the Willie Nelson concert who'll talk to you about how marijuana is medicine.
Maybe they don't want you to heal your body. Have you ever run into that guy anywhere? Well, I don't go to a lot of Willie Nelson concerts, but I've seen that guy at other places. That guy's not just at the Willie Nelson concert, man. That guy's all over the place.
They need to get that guy on like the Senate floor and just tell everybody. I don't know if that guy's the guy, man. I don't know if that guy's the guy. I think you need a there's other guys that could do it. But that guy.
No, man, that guy let that guy hang out at the concert with his people. Yeah. The outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, managing partners, Whitaker and Hamer law firm offices located in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Gullsboro, Fuquay, Verina, Gastonia and Morehead City. Yes, that's convenient, folks. Every corner, practically, they've got an office. Cassandra Nicholas, an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer, joining us from that Morehead City office. And we remind her to stay off the pier even on a cloudy day. Coming up on the program, we've got more from the North Carolina, I guess the state of North Carolina bill to eliminate pistol permits.
That's going to be up next. So if you've got a legal situation that you are facing, you can always call the firm. Eight hundred six five nine one one eight six. You've got a question about it.
That's eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six. Leave your contact information briefly what the call's about. An attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can always email your questions to the program. Questions at the outlaw lawyer dot com. We're back right after this. We are back on the outlaw lawyers, your hosts are Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer managing partners, Whitaker and Hamer law firm, of course, the firm, the power behind the program offices. Located Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina, Gastonia and Morehead City, which is where Cassandra Nicholas is joining us from.
She is remote. And if you've got any situation you're facing, you can always call the firm. Eight hundred six five nine one one eight six. That's eight hundred six five nine one one eight six. Leave your contact information briefly what that call's about. And an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch again.
Eight hundred six five nine one one eight six. Josh. All right, guys, I figured I'd start this by asking Joseph and Cassandra. Have you guys ever gone through the pistol permit process in North Carolina? No, no, man.
No, I haven't. So until this week, if you wanted a if you wanted to buy a handgun, you know, pistol is as a referring to handgun. Like if you want to go buy a hunting rifle, you want to go buy a shotgun, you just walk into the store, you just buy it.
No, we're not. They'll do whatever they do background check or whatever, but you just walk out with your shotgun or your or your your hunting rifle. But if you wanted a handgun, you couldn't buy it unless you went down to the sheriff's office. I think it was, I don't know, 50 bucks or so.
They're going to do a more severe background check on you and give you a pistol permit. You get five at a time. Five at a time. I got five. The last time I went, I had because if you're going to go through it, you might as well get as many as you can.
Because they're good. I can't remember how long they were good for. Doesn't matter anymore.
But they're a couple of years. I still got one in my truck because I only used four of my five pistols. Are you talking about your permit permit?
OK, so I still got one pistol permit in the hopper because for a while, especially during the pandemic, there was a big backlog. You have to go through the county sheriff's department. Some sheriff's departments are quicker than others. I think Johnston County has a good represent or a good reputation. The joke of folks want their pistol permits, man. Wake County under our last sheriff really bogged down and there was a huge waiting period.
And I think Mecklenburg County was probably the same from what I heard. So getting a handgun took some time, took some effort, involved some fees. Some people think that's really good. Some people maybe not.
I don't know. But the North Carolina legislature legislators passed a bill to eliminate. There's a couple of bills now to kind of take some things away from local sheriffs. But this one was a pistol permit bill that that got away. Just you don't need them anymore.
Right. So I got tired of getting pistol permits and sick of getting these pistol permits. So I got my once you get your concealed carry, you can just get it right. You just do what you need to do.
So that's why I never used my last two. But some pistol permits. So so they sent it to the governor.
Right. They said, hey, we're going to we've passed this bill where we're going to eliminate the need to go to the sheriff and get a pistol permit. Governor Governor Cooper vetoed it. It doesn't veto a lot because governors don't like to get their vetoes overturned. And right now there's enough votes to overturn it.
So it went back. And sure enough, the legislature, with some Democrats and Republicans coming together, overturned the veto. And so on, Democrat.
Oh, just one. I wish it was more bipartisan. Yeah, that's that's still bipartisan. Bipartisan. How many buys do you need to have a partisan? So so it's done right.
This just came down this week. I don't know how to play out, but I might go walk into Cabela's tomorrow and oh, man, you can see it in your eyes. More and more guns and busting up into Cabela's. But I don't know. I'm saying this is irrelevant for people who already have a concealed carry permit. Yeah, it doesn't change anything for you guys.
So here you're good for guys like us. Yeah. You got to go buy you a gun today.
Now that you found that out, Cassandra. Well, I hear the pier is rough down that way. The you know, it's it's kind of an antiquated process. And and, you know, of course, we've had some horrific gun violence in the in the nation this week.
And so it's it's nothing to make light of. But what was this do? You know, I guess that was the legislature's point is like, what is your what do you what do you accomplish?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's gun laws in general. That is a valid point, because what are you know, genuinely, what are you what are you accomplishing? There's a better mechanism.
I understand what you're attempting to accomplish, but there's probably a better mechanism to accomplish that. I think anything, you know, anytime anything tragic happens, and of course, it seems like it happens more and more frequently. And no one, no one that doesn't sit well with anyone, whether you're, you know, you should be pro gun laws, you're anti gun laws. No one's happy with what's going on. And everybody, I think, wants a solution.
We just don't get to the same place at the same time. But anyway, so this this that was what Governor Cooper basically paraphrasing what he said is like, hey, this is going to lead to more guns out there and and it won't be as a rigorous process. And and so that was the argument.
But it doesn't matter what the argument was, because, you know, they over wrote it. And now the pistol permit process in North Carolina, unless something happens, I don't know what would happen is no more. Of course, there's still federal laws and, you know, there's still background checks and there's still things like that.
But pistol permits were a pain in the butt. Good gracious, man. The number of P's you've dropped is waiting for you to mess up.
And you're really you're doing a great job, man. I want you to do it like with a Clint Eastwood. Peter Piper picked a pistol permit. And I'm not I'm not a I you know, I was raised with guns, you know, guns have never been raised with guns. I was raised by the right. No, I've always we've always did. We've always we always had guns.
Guns weren't a big deal to me. And do one of those those Christmas photos you see now they've been putting those out there, all the Congress people who do the gun photos for Christmas. Look, I'm going to take an AR 15. Yeah, like the whole family. Everybody in the family's got one. Look, man, I you tell me a little Mikey doesn't have an AR 15.
Josh, those people look. Yeah. Imagine a kid is Santa. This Christmas pictures are unsettling. Yeah.
What do you I mean? Well, it's it's pandering, right? Like no one. It's pandering. Like who does that?
Congress people who want to play to their demographic. Yeah, that those have always been unsettling to me, you know. Well, well, nothing. That's not to say that that that being, you know, enjoying guns or being passionate about them or like those things aren't unsettling in and of themselves. Right. But but yeah, you get the whole family together and everyone's got their burners. And this is you're like, you could choose anything for your Christmas picture. But nothing says warmth, love and Christmas like an AR.
So nothing says our savior. Did you ever see The Simpsons where Homer gets a handgun? Did you ever see that one? Yeah, I know you have seen it. So I'm never going to watch The Simpsons.
I'm just gonna be like, because you're gonna you walk us through the series history. So there's The Simpsons where Homer gets a gun. And as you might expect, Homer is not a very responsible gun owner. He uses it to turn off lights, like change the TV, like he's just shooting at everything. His family moves out and leaves him. Because he's not safe. And he joins the local gun club, which is mostly the Republican characters on the show. And they kick him out, too, because he's so irresponsible with his gun. The point being, nobody likes anybody who's super irresponsible.
Who's like an idiot with a with a weapon. Yeah, sure. Like you're talking about on either side of the aisle, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah.
I remember I remember in high school, we went out. We didn't really go out hunting. We just went out to we went out in the woods to shoot.
Right. We went out into the woods to shoot. And it was a couple of guys. And there's a new guy with us. And he was very irresponsible with his gun. You can't bring the new guy to the shooting party, man. And like swinging it around.
We took his gun away and made him walk back by himself. You know, like, you know, so that's I like to think that's like America. Like, yeah, that's what it should be.
That's my that's the America that I want to be in. We're OK with responsible gun ownership, the irresponsible, the brandishing, like the. But anyway, the legislator legislature saw this as like another impediment for law abiding citizens to get a pistol. Right. Yeah, you're true. That's not that's the the argument isn't like we want everyone out. You know, if you want to go rob a 7-Eleven, we want you to be able to do it easier. It's it's I think that's the basis for most reasonable folks.
The basis for like opposing additional restrictions is is they don't want impediments to the law abiding, decent, responsible people to acquire weapons. But, yeah, man, the whole idea, the whole concept of coming up with a solution is is just such a tricky thing. And everybody gets so stuck, man. And I hate the fact that the increased frequencies almost desensitized people to the point.
Sure. Where it's like you're just throwing your hands up. And that's the wrong way to be, man. I think that happens a lot. And I think it happens, you know, on a lot of different areas. But, yeah, I think people are.
Yeah, definitely desensitized to it. And then I think a lot of people on these on these larger scale problems, like what what do you do? You get that. What do you do as an individual? You know, besides all we any of us can do is just go out and try to be responsible, good folks, you know. But I don't know. I don't know, man. I know we're up against a break and we're not going to solve this problem before it's time to take a break.
And we will take that break. The outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, managing partners, Whitaker and Hamer law firm. The power behind this program. They're practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. Office is located conveniently in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina, Gastonia and Moorhead City.
Cassandra Nicholas also joining us on the program, an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer in that Moorhead City office. If you have a legal situation that you are facing and you just need some questions answered, I've got a phone number for you. Eight hundred six five nine one one eight six.
Again, the number eight hundred six five nine one one eight six. Leave your contact information briefly what the call is about. An attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch. And you can always email your questions to the show. And that's questions at the outlaw lawyer dot com. We'll use them on a future program.
We're back to wrap it up right after this. Final segment of the outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, your host of the managing partners, Whitaker and Hamer law firm, practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. They have offices located in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina, Gastonia and now in Moorhead City.
And speaking of Moorhead City, that's where attorney Cassandra Nicholas joins us from that office. If you've got a situation that you're facing legally, you've got questions always. You can call the firm. Eight hundred six five nine one one eight six.
That's eight hundred six five nine eleven eighty six. And you can also email your questions to the show. Questions at the outlaw lawyer dot com. Just leave your contact information briefly what the call or email is about.
And an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch. Josh, I'm trying to think of what else we could have talked about today. We talked about some very polarizing, divisive issues today. We did, man. We did. We talked about that one thing and then we did that second one. So we talked we talked about we talked about guns.
We talked about legalizing marijuana, booze and dog products, booze and dog products. I know we talked about Capri Suns with alcohol in them. That's a good idea, by the way.
Yeah, thanks, man. I do have those from time to time, you know, usually Capri Sun related. You know, you could probably make your own alcoholic Capri Suns. Just have a syringe right around where the straw goes and just put your choice in there.
Yeah. And that straw man is going to keep people from drinking too heavily, too. So it's like a limiting factor because you can't suck that straw, man. You can't you ever you ever try to chug a Capri Sun and you just squeeze it. But even if you squeeze it, man, you're not increasing that straw's diameter. The scientists who created those Capri Suns, they knew what they were doing. There's a meter in and out slowly, you know, just to drip drop by drop, man.
That was shrinkflation before. Yeah. You ever had one Capri Sun? Like just you just drink one in kindergarten.
You're a monster. I think Capri Sun would have a trademark issue with your great idea. Oh, we wouldn't sell. We're cutting them in, man. We're cutting them in. You can't make a Capri Sun without Capri Suns.
You ever try to drink a pouch beverage that's not a Capri Sun? Then they're in. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. They're on board. We talked about Hawaiian Punch. Yeah. We're thinking about all the soccer parents out there that are watching, you know, endless games, you know.
I don't think Hawaiian Punch gets all the credit it deserves as a delicious beverage. Top to bottom, the the the design, the how they think how red it is, man. Think about how red it is. You know, you know, I was watching only you guys know this only watch like the same 22 movies over and over again. But I was watching now Mr. Deeds was on. Yeah. And he has a Hawaiian Punch water fountain. Yeah, he does. He does.
He does. That's a that's a good you saw. Did you see Adam Sandler?
He won the Mark Twain. I did. I tried to watch it, but I fell asleep in my chair. It sounds like you, man.
Sounds like every movie to just fall right asleep. Yeah. But he deserved that award, man. Yeah. Yeah. He was great, man.
I got a new found. He's a great guy. Yeah. You can tell there's some people you can just tell. They're like genuine, decent folks, man. All the comedians that you would think he'd be competitive with. I mean, they're all buddies and he kind of takes someone.
He takes them along with him. Who doesn't like who doesn't like him other than like critics and people who don't like his movies? Like, have you ever seen someone like professionally that's like, no, I don't like that guy. He's a piece of crap. Never.
Seems like a real sweetheart. If you've never listened to it. Was it? Dana Carvey and David Spade have a podcast. Have you ever seen that? No, I didn't know that.
I listen to the Outlaw Lawyer exclusively on repeat. Right now. I can't remember. It's cause like fly on the wall or something. But they were out and interviewing somebody who had a connection to SNL. So they'll interview writers, of course, the famous people, sometimes guest stars.
But it's very funny. And but yeah, you can tell all the people that were on there with Adam Sandler. Like they just did one with I think it was Andy Samberg. And he was talking about they were all talking about how great a guy Adam Sandler was.
Fly on the wall. He takes care of his he takes care of his friends, too, man. I would hope you guys would do that for me if you one of you gets famous from the show. I think cast me in all of your movies. I think I think Whitaker and Hamer is the Adam Sandler of law firms. Yeah, that's good. That's our new tagline.
That's our new tagline. Josh our gun toting Clint Eastwood talking host. Do you like law?
Do you like pistols? You got to like Adam Sandler. We got Nate. Nate Bragatsky is coming to the PNC. He is. He is. He's a comedian guy. He seems like a friendly enough fellow to me.
I'd like to hang out with him. We'll see how funny he is. We'll see if he's up there with Sandler. Sandler was good, man.
I didn't, you know, you didn't expect it. I personally didn't think his stand up would I think would be bad, but I think it would be as good as it was to me personally. Yeah, it was good.
Yeah. So who opened for him? All of his friends. It was like it was like there was an SNL cast member that's like new. And then it was Rob Schneider. And then you had David Spade. David Spade was the when he was at the PNC, David Spade was the unannounced special guest.
And I thought we were going to get really I didn't think we'd get anybody big. But, yeah, he brought in David Spade. He takes his buddies with him, man.
And we we had we had the two oldest boys with us and they had a blast, man. And they know who David Spade is. If I ever make it big, I've never talked to any of you guys.
Especially you. You've never seen me do interviews. Tell me about this radio show that we talk about.
I never heard of these people. You're just going to do you're not you're not you're not, quote unquote, upgrade across the board. I could never do better than you guys for now.
For now, I could never do better than you guys. Anyway, we got through a bunch of legal topics today. We didn't answer any listener questions. So we got to have a listener question show because those are those are building up. And we got through a whole show and chat. GPT was down.
We couldn't even use a chat. And we made it. Yeah. Your energy got better the longer we went, man. I was like, you're getting life from this show.
We got across the deep end without the life preserver. This show is like Will Buterin. Isn't that like an antidepressant? Is that what that is?
I don't know, man. The Outlaw Lawyer, another edition in the books, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer managing partners, Whitaker and Hamer law firm and practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. Of course, Whitaker and Hamer, the power behind the program offices located in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina, Gastonia and Moorhead City. Big thank you to Cassandra Nicholas, also an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer, joining us from the Moorhead City office.
So we say goodbye to her for Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer. I'm Morgan Patrick, consumer advocate, and we are done for this week. We'll see on the radio next week. Outlaw Lawyer is hosted by an attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina. Some of the guests appearing on the show may be licensed North Carolina attorneys. Discussion of the show is meant to be general in nature, and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice. Legal advice can only be rendered once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live had the opportunity to discuss the facts of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law in North Carolina and how these laws affect the average North Carolinian. If you have any questions about the content of the show, contact us directly.
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