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April 1, 2021 1:00 am


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April 1, 2021 1:00 am

Former Mormons, now on fire for Jesus discuss this Easter miracle.

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Michael Youssef
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Charles Stanley

This is Amy Thomas from the masculine journey podcast where we discover what it means to be a wholehearted man your chosen Truth Network podcast is starting in just seconds. Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing The Truth Podcast Network. This is the Truth Network your this week were talking about the resurrection resurrection of Jesus Christ is the most important event in human history book of Romans chapter 1 verse four Paul states Jesus was quote declared to be the son of God with power according to the spirit of holiness by the resurrection from the dead." In other words, the resurrection was God's powerful declaration of Jesus as his son. As we celebrate resurrection day today our topic is the risen Christ. Thank you for joining us and fireflies.

Welcome back to this episode of the outer brightness podcast and no that's not a special guest. You see their match his breathing Christ warrior Princess shall be joining us from now on on outer brightness podcast so welcome Breanna happy to have you join us and so love. Love the nickname breathing Christ warrior princess. It's kind of play on as the emergency number. Warrior Princess or any listeners was the remember that show from I think the 90s are back right, but she's also; she knows what that is the way before hearts. Suppose that wasn't a grand ball joke about it was Breanna has also gotten altar. Everyone is to be aware of. My name is all a lately gray beds of recording I got this morning when I had to wake her up for.

Sue is going to be her altar like Mr. good was Michael's altar. Everyone in our family has not set it so welcome to grandma and so let me just ask a quick question you, Breanna John, the spot welcome.

When you were a latter-day spline estate was the resurrection.

The ultimate event in the liturgical calendar. I know that's kind of a weird way that to ask especially for four Mormons was it was it the most was the ultimate event in in the year of worship or prayer is latter-day St. Now I guess I think back on and there was a production I was part of one year where it is, save the world and is basically the story of Mikey's Act I birth.

Mike leading up to Paris to be gains when Christ is already died on the cross and he's been buried in the Kim and with this hand being risen and like he he leaves me going there for a moment.

I don't know if it was really super significant but they did emphasize that more is making it to Christ's life.

Michael put your I was angry with my wife, Sherry Tully said in the coming coming weeks. It was to me was that only the, the highlight of the year was Easter Sunday. You know, Christ is risen, and I did view it as being special. You know it's like okay because of this problem be physically resurrected now because Christ was resurrected and they always say in church like this is what gives us hope because since Christ is raised from the dead, we can overcome whatever obstacles are in our Passover try to come back to man, but I didn't think it was the best part of the year yeah newspaper and tell your basically there is usually be like a primary program or there would be some kind of special guessing you had a play special instrument like a violin or or something else that would perform for us and so there's really big program every year for it is a pretty important so this will help to anyone of you that would like to respond. Would you say that there were any other events that become more lump-sum speaker more emphasis were were given more import than the resurrection and the year or so. What would those be. I don't think that there was personally always kind of wondered you know. Why don't we celebrate good Thursday and I wonder if you guys ever had this thought, you know what happened in the garden would've been on Thursday and why don't we celebrate that, for whatever reason, the LDS church doesn't really emphasize that day as far as I remember. Anyways, or Good Friday for that matter, right well yeah but the garden is so emphasize I would've expected them to do something that Thursday night and they never did. It was all about Easter Sunday. So topic and take up another time is why does Wisner not an emphasis on on Good Friday because there is such a about the 900 really know about things like land there the whole Christian liturgical calendar leading up to resurrection Sunday Palm Sunday, Good Friday did not know that was really emphasized and so I don't really know about those things or learn about them until I was on my mission in an Eastern European country where Catholicism were were very prominent and so I really should permit learn those things. So remember feeling questions I primary doctor to the Cincinnati area. Fielding questions from my kids because they were scored lots of Catholics no why don't my obvious giving up anything for Lance having to kinda go on look. It was lent is not emphasized but that else want to talk about a second questionnaire that was there were other events that may become more love what I was kinda thinking about like you just come into my heart like during Christmas time day the birth of Jesus. Around that time, there is justice next birthday not to insert that during Easter like general conference is coming around during the summer. I think like pioneer day no celebration for that really anything else that is my mind it's worth a couple thoughts for me as well. So you comment on pioneer day Breanna grew up in Utah so there is no course July 24 is a huge deal and others parades.

Actually, Bible Fourth of July parades in terms of importance within the state and yeah kind of big celebrations. I remember after moving to Cincinnati, you know, kinda realizing that that was not being anywhere else, even among latter-day Saints.

It really wasn't as big of an emphasis that was in Utah.

It's kind of understand what types were the pioneers ultimately settled so some extent in relation to question two I was really kind of thinking about you know like the restoration of the priesthood got a lot of love and attention for sometimes several weeks leading up to the Sunday where we kind of celebrate that, and it did seem kinda more cognitive moment more attention than Easter. Easter was. It was a special Sunday like what you touched on.

Usually, special musical numbers and talks focused on the resurrection kinda came and went where some other events were fixing to be clearly more important to A same can bed rock core of their beliefs and faith and reason for existence, as opposed other Christian denominations really interesting because I don't remember them any syntaxes really celebrating the restoration of the priesthood like you're talking about like what you just said is completely foreign to me. So that's pretty surprising that neither I was interesting because it didn't hear affirmative nor Kentucky was pretty heavy emphasis in management camera.

I mean real estate to the same with the church being founded on was April 6, 1830, so they would always have a program that if they would usually dedicate at least one talk to talking about that restoration of the church and sometimes I will be on the same Sunday is Easter crazy.

So would you say that there was any messaging that you received is latter-day St. Admitted place. The resurrection of Jesus and sort of a second-class position without distorting the message of rest resurrection me. I thought it was strange. That's all looking back, so most of the time Christians don't really see the resurrection, as part of Christ's atoning work. They see it as kind of like the culmination of Christ's life and in the prophecies that he gave of himself and that others gave him and how he said that he would give the sign of Jonah is joy is in the belly of the fish for three days and nights and then he was spewed out of the well that was a sign of him being in the grave for three days and three nights is a resurrected, but Christians only talk about the resurrection of Jesus being part of our the atonement between man and God is near. This church is a very fundamental part of the of the resurrection is that in many don't teach this way anymore. But what they used to do disease to focus a lot on how the sacrifice of the suffering in the garden of Gethsemane was for spiritual sins or spiritual life. It's a spiritual aspect of the atonement and the death burial and resurrection of Jesus is, like the physical redemption of man. So it's what allows you to come back to life. So those those two aspects, the spiritual and the physical are kinda represented in the sacrament where you can have. Though the water being like the blood Jesus shed in the garden and then the bread which represent his death, burial and resurrection. So that's how I at least I remember it sometimes being taught that way.

Not always, but some people taught as, like spiritual and is a goal and the resurrection.

I'll be sleeping something that's given to all people. So that's one difference I would see is that they would they see it is actually part of the atonement is since typically focus on the crosses is what is the atonement microbrew okay so come to my mind is one distant that we are the same species. You know that that really Christ is the same as us just further down the path, then we are. I think that really dilutes the power of the resurrection, because it's just not a special one somebody is exactly like you pull something off yet is almost like not that huge of a leap that maybe I can do that as well or doing atonement or something. It just doesn't put us in the same the same position as a make it such a miracle. I think just trying to humanize everything but another thought they came to my mind was that letter he says believe that all spirit is his physical know everything's created from this fine matter called intelligence and if that's the case in Christ you know he Re: we arty have a body, even when he was dad and so being resurrected doesn't really mean anything if Yorty had a physical body me out of really fine matter. If an accent so I think there are very couple things like that that kind of dilute the message's another one. I was related to what Matthew was talking about to is no when the atonement is talked about within lessons in the latter is very possible doctrine, etc. a lot of times I would hear the statement made no you turn your everlasting life is a gift to everyone, ran by that latter-day Saints because Christ was resurrected. All will be resurrected and so everyone has a gift of everlasting life. Eternal life is earned right there is often that distinction made this gift of resurrection and eternal life. You gotta earn it and I think that I think that you had dilute the resurrection.

In addition to polluting what Christ did on the cross of some of my challenge is a wild and mentally. The resurrection of everyone's going to be resurrected.

Everyone just that that everlasting life will dilutes the resurrection in that the resurrection is is God's stamp on what Christ did on the cross and in the way that latter-day Saints presented almost makes it seem like it's just it's just a statement of risk and it kind dilutes what the message of the resurrection is, which is why went to Romans Romans passage. An introduction goes my mind to was in Mormonism. The resurrection is part of Christ's progression is one of the things that he had come complete and suggests is just a slap in the face were saying that this is like Christ was not perfect before she was not complete and now he is and it goes completely against Christianity which fiancÚ Christ was always complete is always perfect. He was always fully divine to the point my quick kinda goes against their will. Christ. Right, glorify thou me with the glory which I had with you before the foundation of the world right you had that equity was already fully God, so he wanted wasn't him becoming complete. So yeah, it definitely kindness were sideways from from the biblical messages yet. What does it means that the person who rose from the grave is a different person than the one who went into the great, all saying that before he went into the grave. He was on incomplete person who is not a perfect being and then when he comes out. Suddenly he is he is infinite. He's perfect just like the father is so is a Christian now how is your view of the resurrection different than when you were obvious anyone you learn to learn. I feel like if kind of kept my hand on this one already, but I mean probably the biggest difference is just who wasn't that came out of the grain. Was it my spirit brother and now the answers no, it was not my spirit brother. It was it was the son of God. It was it was God. It was a he was a divine being that came out and it is not someone who's on my level by any means find the biggest difference just changes everything. Fundamentally, I think, because if you don't know who he was and came when I was four. Like it completely undermines break.

He came in first place so I can Mormonism you have to come to earth to get up on and you need that they can progress to become your own become like God. And really it's just all about shallow pain when he was about Christ coming to save us from our sands in any kind of makes the resurrection means sort of feel like a selfish act because it is part of his progression is not, you know, completely, just something for since it's part of his progression and therefore as part of our progression in a way you know I need to look at that as a latter-day St. Sam to build and do things that are even greater than this Sunday when I become a God and I think when you think that way just totally undermines the power of the resurrection. He also I will see the resurrection is latter-day St. something that was owed to us by virtue of the fact that we are literal offspring of God and since God had a body just like we do it seem like well it's natural you know he needs to give me a glorified body because he has one but in Christianity we see it is not something that's owed to us but something that's given entirely by grace in Christ being the first to be resurrected.

We see a glimpse of that kind of existence that we will have in glory when we live with the Lord and will set us down on you know with him on his throne with crowns of glory, and so it gives us something helpful to look to and and it should humble us to recognize that we we are in owed anything by God. This is something that isn't completely out of grace and love for us for his children that he's saved by his sovereign grace so it's a lot to think about it said going out but it's been said, it's just a different perspective. It's a different understanding of what what the end is for what the purpose of everything is and what our purpose isn't so when you have a biblical understanding it shifts everything to be focused on us but on Christ.

Matthew needs to do this in the words were studying early and some early Christian fathers thoughts on the incarnation and the idea is that if there is anything about human nature that Jesus did not take on man that part of human nature is not is not present is not was wormwood for so death is one of those aspects of human nature that Christ had to take on and to Michael's point and browse point know if if if Jesus is of the same species as us right and to be clear. Christian theology says that he was fully human, but that he is also by nature fully God and so we are not in any way or sense divine. We are created beings and so on.

If there's any aspect of human nature that that Christ did not take upon himself and raise up men not been then humanity is not stated in so death is part of that wears it almost sounds like and some things were said about the way Mormons talk about resurrection is that rail to Zoe's is providing a cure for that is provided here for spiritual, physical.spiritual death cures for both about, but I don't know that Mormon theology or anthropology specifically really allows for that theology to play out, so to speak, make sense for a moment that I think I was reading a call you're talking about earlier. What is not assumed is not redeemed exactly best friends.

Yeah that's good grin as he answers so is in response to a polymeric upon Arianism where they said that Jesus didn't have a human spirit or human soul or mind. He just had like the God the mind part of Jesus was God in the body part of Jesus was human so Gregor is discussing like you're saying Paul that if Jesus was not fully manned that he could not of redeemed mankind's. We had to be truly manage truly God in us a problem with this theology is they don't see the divine nature and human nature. A separate and distinct things they see it. See the divine nature is just human nature brought to completion brought to perfection. So the fact that Jesus came down as a God man where he had the divine nature that was now united to the human nature in one person, not divided or separate but united in the same person. That's the miracle of of Jesus of the God man, but in this theology, they didn't really have that concept. They just see him as the perfect man, listening to our brightness contrast from those drawn by God, to walk with Jesus when he does this really national except we were all born and raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah, commonly referred to as the Mormon faith. All of us have left that religion and have been drawn to faith in Jesus Christ-based teaching the name of the podcast brightness six, John 19 the true light which gives light to everyone you found life beyond Mormonism to be brighter than we were told in the light, we have is not our own. Thus, our purpose is to share our journeys of faith God has done in drawing us to his son give conversations about all aspects of the transition years challenges, joys, and everything in between.

Glad you found us and we hope you'll stick around and wants to sometimes letter receives will argue that the eyewitness evidence for the book of Mormon plates is just as strong as the evidence for the resurrection.

How would you respond to the argument taken up the difference is between man that there is for the resurrection and the Bible is verifiable and you can go back and look for it in the book of Mormon deed.

He can't really go back to the business transcripts for the book of Mormon. They can go back to just go on plan for a semi-some people sat in the Bible. You don't have to go by blind faith.

God is evidence to show himself to you mind is like the case for Christ talks a lot about that and said he really interested looking about the evidence to back it up to Christ and the resurrection will greatly struggle. So I guess my thought on this would be. I was actually looking at the testimony of the three witnesses. So, here's a quote that that they wrote down it says and we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates and they have been shown unto us by the power of God and not of man meeting that they didn't see them.

Normally they saw them with their spiritual eyes and I guess the question that I would ask Latter Day Saints is what's the difference between that and people who claim that they've seen aliens you know what I was letter to San Jose owners 11, 11 witnesses, no court on earth could dismiss such a strong testimony by going back to my alien analogy that there's a lot more than 11 people who claim that they've been abducted by aliens.

So based on that that logic aliens must be real and so I guess since that's why kind of have issue with it because then the angel Moron I takes the gold plates and there's just no way to verify anything, whereas brand was a we have thousands and thousands of manuscripts for the Bible that we can actually look at. We don't need to take somebody's word for it because you can actually look at them through foster Matthew we we do have extra biblical accounts.

Two of stating that Christians did believe and worship Jesus that he was an actual historical figure which is something that we don't have any of the figures of the book of Mormon.

We have, or the existence of Moron I or Nephi, or any of these people is the witness of Joseph Smith and it's about it. I mean, I think around a bit over Cowdrey know he didn't see Moron I can remember what other colleagues of Smith's claim to see these people when Cowdrey going to see Moses and Elias and Elijah in the temple, but I don't think he ever claimed to ever see Moron I write. There is a there's a vision where Martin Harris and maybe others saw the hill Camorra open up and they saw the sort of lay band and the claim to see other things on the table but terms of actually seeing the people in the from the book of Mormon. We embrace The trust Joseph Smith's testimony, but we have witnesses that bed that Jesus was an actual historical figure that was followed and worshiped by Christians in the first century we have nothing about that for the book of Mormon.

So even if you don't if you don't want to count the biblical account as accurate. We still have other witnesses extra biblical witnesses of Jesus's existence. We can't go and dig up something and finds their animal and show that Nephi was an actual person. We can do that for Moron I weekend after Mormon so it's really is really no comparison in general. Thoughts is a famous LDS apologist makes this case.

I can't remember if it is Daniel Peterson, or if it's Robert Miller that the case is made that you know for the resurrection you have witnesses eyewitnesses right who are giving their testimony recorded in the Bible for the idea that Christ rose from the dead, and that for the book of Mormon. You also have witnesses who are giving their testimony of the existence of the plates and then the analogy is continued in the argument say while today we cannot do Christ's living body. Just as we cannot view the golden plates and so in both cases you're relying on witness testimony and so it's like trying to bolster the case for the book of Mormon by the strength of the case for the resurrection and my response to it would be just that the witnesses for the resurrection. Not all of them but the apostles themselves went to their deaths, preaching the resurrection of Christ, went to martyr status bridging the resurrection resurrection of Christ, three witnesses, nor any of the witnesses went to martyr steps debated not so large difference there in my mind, living on do you think that it matters if the resurrection was a historical event why or why not yeah absolutely got quote from Corinthians 15 because Paul makes it pretty clear that the resurrection is incredibly important for our faith saving find the verse again out of crisis is starting verse 12 of Christ is preached, that he has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead, but if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised and if Christ has not been raised in our preaching is in vain.

Your faith also is in vain. Moreover, we are even found to be false witnesses of God because we testified against God that he raised Christ from he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised, or if the dead are not raised and not even Christ has been raised and if Christ has been not been raised, your faith is worthless, you're still in your sins and also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we hope in Christ. Only in this life we are of all people most to be pitied. So I don't think I can put it any better than Paul did. It's absolutely crucial to our faith.

That's way resurrection so important is not. I don't think it's necessarily because we needed it to reconciled to God for our sins, but it's it says you've talked about. As we talked about earlier is that it's a stamp from God that is certifying that everything that Jesus said everything that was said about Jesus is true and so when Jesus promises that those who believe in him will have forgiveness of sins and eternal life. We can trust those words because Christ's resurrection is a validation of the person and work of Jesus. Now very powerful. And Paul says that Christ is not raised, you're still in your sins. Why is that, like I said I presenting is because he saying that all the promises that Jesus made salvation were not true. Their faults because if he lied about him coming back from the dead, and he didn't know then how can we really trust any of his words about us and save have eternal life. There is if we can't trust Jesus and everything that we can trust him in anything. Also, the atonement sacrifice that you brought on the cross on our behalf is is contingent on upon him being brought in. So the resurrection is you as you said earlier, is this the stamp on Christ as the son of God has gone right and so it Christ not raise them in the sacrifice that was brought wasn't actually wrought in any kind of way that was effective so Michael Breanna I was just looking at acts 315 two says you killed the author of life that God raised him from the dead and we are witnesses of this fact is just so powerful for their preaching to Beale to say we are witnesses of the risen Christ. We've we've witnessed this week. CNET and Gillett. Matthew was talking about to where Christ rose and it was a stamp and as a latter-day St. I said it hundreds of times you know do not seek for a sign, you know, but just have faith in, and here Paul is saying the exact opposite of that. And in the verse in Matthew quoted where he says, your faith is in vain.

If Christ is not raised in other words, you in Christ even said it to know this is a sign just as Jonah was three days and in the belly of the whale and so he he rose to be a sign that this atonement really happened and it's not a blind faith like I would've said as a latter-day St. so it has to be a historical event. If it's not a historical event that we are faith is vain.

We have nothing to look at and no valid reason to have faith have anything extra. Yeah, I agree only doing. My dad is just a kind of come full circle on the comparison between the book of Mormon and the resurrection. Latter-day St. scholars more and more are moving away from a historical book of Mormon moving towards it being more of an allegory and that's the direction that the Maxwell Institute is taking it's a direction that is opposed by kind of the old guard of Mormon apologists at the book of Mormon, central, and so latter-day Saints listening, I would just say your your scholars in your apologists or move them away from historical book of Mormon and it is the keystone of your religion.

According to Joseph Smith that Keystone is the arch crumbles. Christians agree that the resurrection is like the keystone of the Christian faith if it is removed as an historical event, the arch crumbles, so I'm just challenge latter-day Saints to think about that in relation to the comparison is made between the book of Mormon resurrection right next question.

Some people use the resurrection to argue that the doctrine of the Trinity is false.

This was a new one to me knows that is a new Christian, but some people argue the reasoning they give is that quote Jesus could not raise himself from the dead."

That required the father to raise him from the beds, how to respond to the argument how to respond and ask where they got this idea. Strange, I never heard I myself yeah when we look at Scripture as a whole.

And that's one thing that were really not taught to do is latter-day Saints were normally taught to look at Scripture as a whole and and follow the analogy of faith and knowledge of Scripture. These hermeneutic hermeneutical techniques just basically techniques understand Scripture completely. After look at all Scripture and see what the witnesses and if we look at all Scripture. We not only see that God raised God the father raised Christ from the dead, but we said it was actually an act by all three persons of the Godhead, so we look at Scripture, we see as Michael quoted from expert 15 receipt we see Peter's so we see Peter's witness.

That's why he says you killed, author of life from God raised from the dead.

So this is while preaching the Jews at yeah and that in that chapter so it's affirming both that that Christ was raised from the dead and so is it's affirming that he was raised from the dead by the father, but it also says that Jesus is the author of life that I don't think we think about that too much to deeply. A lot of times, but that's also affirming that Christ is also God being the author of life being the one who has the power to raise the dead one who created all things.

He is also God so and in his essence and in the status so he's not secondary to God is our second God. He's truly eternally God. We also see the Christ himself would promise that he would raise himself in the dead. He says so this is in John chapter 10 such a really great sermon on early sermon, but it is in his rebuttal against those who were were doubting him, he says. For this reason, the father loves me because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.

No one takes it from me, but I lay down of my own accord. I have authority to lay down and I have authority to take it up again and he also promised earlier in John's Gospel. He said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up. The Jews said is been 46 years to build a stamp on your raise up in three days, but he was speaking about the temple of his body now is John chapter 2 verses 19 to 21 so the father raised Jesus from the dead son. Christ himself said that he is the he has a 40 to lay life down into raise up again but there also passages that seem to indicate that the spirit was also involved in the trend in the in the resurrection, making a Trinitarian miracle in Romans chapter 1 Paul wrote that Jesus was declared to be the son of God in power according to the spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, so this seems also indicate that he was declared a Jesus with the cognizant of God power according to the spirit of holiness by his resurrection. The dead so spirit of holiness also affirms was also involved in Christ's resurrection.

So as a Trinitarian act, Jesus's resurrection and how that works exactly you know it's not. I don't think it was 33% father, 33% sign 33% spirit. No were not to get into that will have to show that video from the Lutheran satire. You know all that all the bad Trinitarian examples but you know I don't exactly know who was involved in what aspect we just know that the entire Godhead was involved. Christ's resurrection from the dead.

Really really well said I was going to quote John chapter 10 to now I don't have to stole my thunder but it's his company is Isaac who makes these these arguments anyway have a non-read the Bible that just give me a flashback from being LDS and attacking the Trinity all the time and one of my what I thought was my best argument against against the Trinity is that since they share a hippo static union.

Jesus couldn't have actually died because the father was still alive and so therefore there was no resurrection.

So take that is similar, can argument servers. There is some similarity in the way that like oneness and hostels handle the text of Scripture in the way that latter-day Saints handle text descriptions of this was this one is probably playing off of Romans one ignoring all of the rest of you can look at for example look at John 526 right where in this is that this is the passage where it is a fancy theological term well where the Asante of God is kind of declared Scripture stated being petite term that means having having being from one's self right.

You're not contingent upon another, for your existence, you exist within yourself and so we are not. We do not have a safety is latter-day St. doctrine teaches we are contingent beings were created being Scott alone has stated in John 526 says in the new King James version for the for as the father has life in himself, so he is granted the son to have life in himself, so both the father and the son have cited so that it will be where I would go. Matthew did a great job and I guess one thing that can that came to my mind when I read this question.

John 11 because it establishes that Jesus, the Word was with God, and he was gone. So he's not divine. How could he not that's I can really add to good to me like if Jesus were not truly divine.

Then he couldn't raise himself in the dead is our strength.

Yeah, I guess that if he is divine and why couldn't he raise himself if he's Yaffe was God, but he couldn't. Then it would kinda make yes it as he questions if he is truly God if he couldn't do something that the father could didn't didn't latter-day Saints is ever heard them say that the resurrection was an ordinance me with every other ordinance that exists.

You need somebody else to perform that ordinance for you on your behalf. I just remember though, there's like a passage in the doctrine and covenants.

It talks about how Jesus grew from grace to grace something like that and are wrapping quoted increase in meetings when it's able. Jesus even had a grown grace and perfection and by his own efforts.

He was able to resurrect himself and everything that's what I remember hearing but yeah I have also heard to the resurrection is kind of an ordinance and I think that has also something to do with the temple ceremony temple marriage maybe falcon and lightness as we don't trigger somebody about it yet. And the only thing I can think of. There is that latter-day St. teaching husbands will call forth their wives in the resurrection.

So yeah the lessons I guess it would be an ordinance preset ordinance that would be performed to call your wife forth for resurrection which, while I haven't thought about that in quite a while, but man that's is another instance of kind of inserting yourself in the place of Christ.

I just got a call from that section that I was referring to. I found it at CES and D&C 93 think this is John the beloved. It's like some kind of revelation that he supposedly it says I John bare record starting at verse 11 that I beheld his glory is a glory of the only begotten of the father full of grace and truth. Even the spirit of truth which came and dwelt in the flesh and dwelt among us, and I John saw that he received not of the fullness at the first received grace for grace. And he received not of the fullness of first boat continued from grace to grace until he received a fullness, and thus he was called the son of God because he received not of the fullness at the first is only ever really thought about, so they're saying he was the son because he was, not truly and completely. God originally grew from grace to grace not quite sure what that's versus saying that have to think hard about that. That's kind of weird. We know from the look more into the it says that he's the son is the father because of the power of God because of the power of God in him in the sun because of the flesh, so that's even an old alternative explanation for what it means for Jesus to be the son, and that almost sounds moralistic but similar discussion interesting are the schools to sell their last question will maybe two more questions below will go this from first as a Christian now how is your celebration of the resurrection different than when you are latter-day St. One thing that's really cool for Breanna and I is that Easter is the time when we both came to Christ, and so it I think it has special meaning doesn't make sense because we were already teetering on the ad and then this time of year comes around and were thinking about the atonement and the resurrection and end just the name of Jesus himself and that was enough to pull us both off the fence and so does it has significant skills like it's also the time when we were born again of course we were saved. You know over 2000 years ago. I hear Christians say that a lot when were you saved over 2000 years ago when Christ died on the cross is that is when I was saying so as far as like the celebration I don't do a lot differently and is just more about how I feel is what's different because as latter-day St. Everything always pointing back to me okay Christ was resurrected and so that puts the pressure on me.

I have no excuse because Christ was resurrected and so that gives me the hope, the ability to overcome whatever sins I'm struggling with right now and now it's it's more of an appreciation and gratitude and reverence. You know where everything is been taken out of my hands. You know Christ is done the impossible know not something that's further down my path, but something that is absolutely impossible for a human being to do so. I'm just more in all of of the whole thing than I was before. And for those thoughts. Breanna don't have that much in a different like way celebrating & that I do definitely appreciate Jesus to a lot more and it has a lot more gaps before he was just like it was just a day now they'll yes it really matter as much to unite all live again Sunday and it was not an important me as much and I felt very bored, going to church when we would talk about the resurrection and really understanding her care until I was saved by yet we saw Latter Day Saints. We worshiped on Sunday and we called it the Sabbath and so the reformed view is that the Sabbath is moral command from creation and so is C and I kind of more believe that we worshiped on Sunday because all that's what modern revelation says we worship on Sunday to remember Jesus resurrection, but not understand Scripture and end coming to reformed understanding of Scripture we see that it's not just because we worship on Sunday to remember the resurrection that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath when he was resurrected as Lord of the Sabbath he actually changed the day of worship from the seventh day to the first day, so he actually by the power in him and being raised from the dead, he actually changed the day of worship to be on the first day. That's why I reformed also have a similar kind of view of the Lord's day as Latter Day Saints, in the sense that we should work. We shouldn't do a lot of recreational things so others log disagreement about that most Christians but this is a different perspective of what the Lord's day means and end week and we don't call it the Sabbath real call Sunday Inoue called the Lord's day, and that the data belongs to the Lord and its and its two is to always member Christ in every week we should be thinking or remembering the reason why worshiping that they is because of Christ's resurrection and yeah like I said earlier, it's more of a perspective thing so I celebrate the resurrection as a reminder of Christ's glory and the magnificence in the grace and the sovereign power and plan of God in all things rather than seeing it as like oh here's something I'm going to get someday, here's here's my inheritance. Here's known as C and outside of it is times like when I get get out of it, saying, but it's more of pointing to just how glorious and magnificent God is. That's how I see it more now than before can hear me. Yeah. So, going back to a rear muted again Siam government amended technical difficulties on my and like everything is taking longer than I think that this should apology. So, going back to what Breanna said about Mike as Latter Day Saints, viewing the resurrection is like Christ's, was raised, so I'll be raised to I was saved. The main difference for me is is actually that it's a celebration now knows, as latter-day St. It was kind of a special Sunday there were musical numbers but aside from everyday special musical numbers and ends. The talks this the speeches given in sacrament meeting being focused on the resurrection. It wasn't any different than any other Sunday. I didn't feel different anyway. But as a Christian at the church. Now I attend it's it's very much a celebration and it's it's that it's a celebration of all that, like the culmination of all that Christ has done for us because as we says we said no it's it's it's God's stamp right Christ was raised in power and the just the way that it's the way that it's celebrated it's it's rental I don't want to sound crass that it's not like it's a party, but everyone's excited. You know it's it's a reality that the I member Kenneth Felter grasped that within the Latter Day Saints worship of of Easter so I appreciate that about how it's different.

So we've covered a lot of ground day experiential aspects of celebrating Easter as latter-day St. now is a Christian. We've also gone into some apologetic questions between Latter Day Saints and Christians and also between skeptics and Christians regarding the resurrection are there any resources that you would recommend to allow former Latter Day Saints was a new Christian who really wants to dig into the, the reliability of of the resurrection is a historical event is the case for Christ. That's a really good resource status things earlier on new Christian, I really delved into the archaeology and mistake. Understanding the history and can also like an archaeological Bible. Those are useful or just general studying of the history and are not very interesting. I could thinking Michael would buy you resources on that any really Matthew yeah I don't have any specific books related to the resurrection. I probably should, but I think everyone should have access to some kind of systematic theology or some kind of study Bible. So the ones that I always recommend are either the ESV study Bible, or Reformation study Bible. That's we see a more reformed kind of perspective but they both have great notes on the resurrection and articles in the back that are really helpful to new Christians. I felt like the ESV study Bible really helped me as a as a new Christian and there's also another is not a book that I've what about the study notes for the ESV systematic theology something study Bible and what was is the study notes and I been reading those. Those are really fascinating, but those are also from her reformed perspective so that Turned you off. Then I'm sure that there systematic theologies out there that are non-reformed perspective so of her reformed perspective there is the body of of divinity from John Gill that I really like or Calvin's institutes so you and you any one of those well talk about much every important doctrine for Christianity, including resurrection goes a couple of the couple resources I would recommend one is a common older Christian apologetic were called to move the stone. It's by Frank Morrison. That's a good one.

Dr. Gary Habermas is probably the foremost Christian scholar doing work on the resurrection right now and he's got a lot of really good resources and then Mike Latona is also a Christian scholar who has written and published as it is a expand expansion of his doctoral thesis and it's called the resurrection new historiographical approach.

And so he he applies the tools of historiography to the resurrection, well over 700 page book II got to see him lecture and apologetics conference a few years back and shake his hand and going to sign my book but yeah those are some I Would Recommend William Ln., Craig because he has a good podcast episode that I'm a try to find and put in our our notes for this episode where he can work through the case for the resurrection in about 40 minutes long and six.

It'll give you a really good tight understanding of the kind of the historiographical approach to the resurrection.

So yeah it's a good resources there. Thanks fireflies for listening in. Hope you're enjoying your resurrection day and celebrating all the Christ done for us.

Talk to you soon. Thank you for the out of podcast please visit the Facebook feel free to send us a message that comments or questions, send a message of the pain appreciated.

July we also have and how to write his and others can also send this on to hear from you soon, subscribe to the other brightness podcast on campus cast box cast the modified stitcher. Also you can check out our new YouTube channel.

If you like it shortly right great also connect with Michael just one lungs and sometimes Poland as well. Music for the other brightness podcast is graciously provided by the talented Breanna Flournoy and by Adams Road.

Learn more about Adams Road. By visiting their ministry page. It Adams Road state right fireflies to show all the way.

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