Thomas Jefferson: The Story of A Man Who Was Super...Human

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The pro volleyball federation all-star match on February 22nd at 1 30 p.m. Be there. And we return to our American stories. Up next a story from John Meacham. He's the author of numerous best-selling books on American leaders and visionaries from FDR to Andrew Jackson to George H.W.

Bush. But today we'll hear John discuss Thomas Jefferson at a library of congress book talk. Let's get into the story.

Take it away John. Jefferson remains today what he was in life. A vivid engaging contradictory figure flawed and imperfect at once monumental and very human. His vices and his virtues are outsized epic and all too real.

So too are America's. To look closely at Jefferson is to look closely at ourselves then and now. His circumstances were particular yet the general issues that consumed him are constant.

Liberty and power rights and responsibilities the keeping of peace and the waging of war. He was a politician fundamentally a politician a public man in a nation in which politics and public life became and remain so central. He once wrote man feels that he is a participator in the government of affairs not merely at an election one day in the year but every day.

And in doing so Jefferson anticipated a world governed by cable news. He is in his way immortal yet because of his flaws and his sins he strikes us as mortal too. A man of achievement who is nonetheless susceptible to the temptations and compromises and ambitions that ensnare all of us. He was not all he could be.

No politician no human being ever is. Yet despite all his shortcomings and all the inevitable disappointments and mistakes and dreams deferred Jefferson left America and the world in a better place than it had been when he first entered the arena of public life. That he did not live a perfect life that he failed to deliver on the promise of his own words in the declaration of independence that he has been condemned as a hypocrite in the eyes of history are to my mind reasons not to excoriate him but to engage with him. George Washington inspires all John Adams respect but with his grace and hospitality his sense of taste and love of beautiful things of silver and art and architecture and gardening and food and wine Jefferson is more alive more convivial politically 19th century secessionists and 20th century states rights purists have found him a hero progressive leaders from Woodrow Wilson to FDR to Truman have believed him to embody the best impulses of the American tradition of popular government FDR had what I would safely refer to as a man crush on Thomas Jefferson. So let's spend a moment with the man himself lean and loose-limbed Thomas Jefferson rose with the sun every morning swung those long legs out of bed and plunged his big feet into a basin of cold water a lifelong habit he believed good for his health.

Web MD did not start the various issues we have with slightly shaky analysis. At Monticello the metal bucket was brought every morning to his bedside it wore a groove on the floor next to the alcove bed in doing this book through the great grace of the trustees of the Thomas Jefferson foundation I was allowed to spend the night in Jefferson's bedroom it wasn't as much fun apparently as he often had but I found that they put me on an air mattress it was fascinating what I what I learned was I saw that groove and asked what it was and it was the bucket that was broad so his feet would be sort of wake him up the other was that he had designed the house and very little was done by accident in Thomas Jefferson's life he designed the house so that as the sun rose every morning the first set of rooms the light hit were his rooms and later that day I happened to walk down to the graveyard on the other side of the hill at sunset and realized that the last place on Jefferson's mountain where the light hit was his grave so from the beginning of the day to the day to the very end he tried to soak up every possible moment to make something of it he was six foot two and a half and the Jefferson who came to the presidency had sandy hair which had been though although reddish in his youth was graying his freckled skin always susceptible to the sun was wrinkling a bit his eyes were penetrating but elusive alternately described as blue hazel or brown he had great teeth he loved his wife his books his farms good wine architecture homer horseback riding history France the commonwealth of Virginia spending money buying books and his daughters he believed in America and in Americans he thought they were capable of virtually anything they put their minds to whatever they can they will he said of his countrymen in 1814 his longtime rival Alexander Hamilton and a word on Hamilton I've been out now for three years or more talking about Jefferson and in many audiences I will have someone say well I'm really a Hamiltonian what that means is they're a banker the real Alexander Hamilton once said that Jefferson was quote I love this among the indolent and temporizing rulers who love to loll in the lap of epicure and ease and seem to imagine that to govern well is to amuse the wondering multitude with aphorisms and oracular or oracular sayings oracular sayings he was a brilliant man and an invaluable founder but I think Hamilton had this wrong Jefferson craves control over people and overt events and he knew that to govern well required unrelenting if largely hidden work there was nothing indolent about the political ambition of Thomas Jefferson judged by the raw standard of the winning and keeping of power he was the most successful political figure of the first half century of the American republic for 36 of the 40 years between 1800 and 1840 either Thomas Jefferson himself or a self-described adherent of his philosophy was president of the United States John Quincy Adams being the one exception Madison Monroe Jackson Van Buren this unofficial and I think little noted Jeffersonian dynasty is unmatched in American history he had big dreams but he understood that dreams become reality only when their champions are strong enough and wily enough to bend history to their purposes broadly put philosophers think and politicians maneuver Jefferson's genius was that he could do both often simultaneously and that is the art of power he possessed this talent for politics for philosophy for education he was a vital maker of the nation's public intellectual cultural lives he was a master of emotional and political manipulation sensitive to criticism intoxicated by approval obsessed with his reputation devoted to America irresistibly drawn to the great world as a planter as a lawyer as a legislator as a governor as a diplomat as secretary of state vice president and president he spent much of his life seeking control over himself and power of the lives and destinies of others and you've been listening to John Meacham author of Thomas Jefferson the art of power a speech he gave at the library of congress and my goodness dead on in all aspects and respects to Thomas Jefferson he was vivid and engaging contradictory flawed and monumental Meacham said to look closely at Jefferson is to look closely at ourselves he was not all he could be Meacham said no one is but Jefferson left the world better when he left it when we come back this man who could maneuver and think the story of Thomas Jefferson continues here on our American stories have you ever wondered what it would be like to have supervision enhanced hearing extraordinary reflexes to be dare we say superhuman well Roku's new pro series tv can't do any of that for you but with a 4k screen side firing speakers and a blazing fast refresh rate it'll sure feel like it elevate your entertainment using all your favorite apps like iHeart and play all your music radio and podcasts with the new Roku pro series your senses aren't better your tv is it is Ryan here and I have 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john meacham john is the author of thomas jefferson the art of power let's return to the story he has most commonly been thought of as the author of america or as its architect a figure who articulated a vision of what the country could be but was otherwise kind of a detached dreamer yet he did not rest once his words were written or his ideas entered circulation he was a builder and a fighter quote what is practical must often control what is pure theory moreover the habits of the governed determine in a great degree what is practical the habits of the governed determine in a great degree what is practical by force of nearly two and a half centuries of habit we tend to view our history as an inevitable chain of events leading to assure uncertain conclusion there was however nothing foreordained about the american experiment to treat it as a set piece pitting an evil empire of englishmen against a noble band of colonists does a disservice to both for it caricatures britain and it minimizes the anguishing complexities that jefferson and his contemporaries faced in choosing accommodation or rebellion the most fundamental political decision of all was the decision for independence to break the bonds and it was painful and it was difficult you may remember at the continental congress second continental congress there was a great big heavyset man from virginia benjamin harrison and elbridge gary of the gary mandarin family i don't think they call themselves that anymore but you know it was this little guy and uh they were getting ready to sign the declaration and harrison the big guy looked down at gary and said you know when they hang us it'll all be over for me real quick you'll dangle for months so most americans after all were of british descent and american culture in the decades leading up to the revolution was quite deferential to and even celebratory of the monarchy the whole structure of the lives of jefferson's american ancestors and of his generation was built around membership in the british empire for many if not most americans the hatred of king george the third that marked the active revolutionary period was the exception not the rule jefferson lived his political life and worked in a political time when nothing was certain he knew he felt god he felt that america's enemies were everywhere the greatest of these was britain and not only during the struggle for independence rather than recalling the revolutionary war in its traditional way as the armed struggle that lasted from lexington and concord in 1775 until the british defeat at yorktown in 81 i think it's illuminating to consider looking at it the way jefferson looked at it which is that the struggle against great britain and its influence in american life opened in 1764 the end of the french and indian war and did not end until the treaty of ghent and the battle of new orleans brought the war of 1812 to a close in 1815 seen this way which is how jefferson saw it and experienced it jefferson lived and governed in a 50 years war from 1764 to 1815 it was a war that was sometimes hot and sometimes cold but it was always unfolding it took different forms there were traditional battlefield confrontations from 1775 to 1783 and again from 1812 to 1815 there were battles by proxy with loyalists and british allies among native americans there were commercial strikes and counter-strikes there were fears of political encroachment within the united states that could be aided by british military movements from canada nova scotia or britain's western posts posts they declined to surrender after the revolution there were anxieties about disunion of sentiment in new england and in new york there were terrors about monarchical tendencies wherever they might be jefferson thought he was in a perennial war so he spoke and acted in tones and terms that may seem extreme to our ears but which were natural if one saw the world as he saw it from alexander hamilton's financial program to john adams's weakness for british forms to the overt new england hostility toward his presidency it may seem overheated it certainly did to some of those who lived through the time but it was real to him and if we are to understand what he was really like and what life was really like for him then we must see the world as he saw it not as we know it turned out so i'd like to offer three quick thoughts for us about our own time some possible lessons to draw from from jefferson's era one lesson is to strive mightily to resist reflexive partisanship not partisanship itself partisanship is part of the air we breathe for a democracy that was clearly jefferson's view he once said that there have always been divisions of opinion and in government since these questions troubled greece and rome so disagreeing with one another is not the issue it's when we reflexively do so it's when i reject what you say because you're the one saying it and jefferson was a deep sinner on this point in 1790 when he came back from france he discovered he had been appointed secretary of state in the newspapers proving that leaks were a problem even then he went to new york he wanted to he wanted to live on the broadway but couldn't find quarters so he took up quarters on maiden lane i believe and immediately went to war with alexander hamilton they were like two cocks in a pit every day they fought over everything they fought over this the nature of a financial system they fought over the even the ceremonial of the presidency should george washington repay visits that are calls that were made to him and they fought and they fought and they fought and finally president washington had had too much of it so washington wrote them both a letter and this is what he said how tragic it is how unfortunate it is that whilst we are encompassed on all sides with avowed enemies and insidious friends that internal dissensions should be harrowing and tearing our vitals jefferson wrote back saying that he would not suffer the slanders of a man whose history from the moment at which history had stooped to notice him had been nothing but a tissue of machinations and lies against the country which had not only accepted him but heaped its honors upon his head hamilton hamilton supporter in that same period wrote to washington that i think you ought to get a damn kicking you red-headed son of a bitch so george washington as family therapist was not a growth industry that did not work but jefferson got better as that the 1790s went on he knew he had to reach out as president he would write his daughters and say i am about to become an unpunctual correspondent because congress was coming to town he had congress down to dinner every day he didn't mix federalists and republicans this is not about being a pipe bipartisan valhalla or a blue ribbon commission this is about his being able to build bonds from the law make between the lawmakers and he himself but he worked and worked and worked at the politics of the personal avoiding reflexive partisanship reaching out two good things to look for the other that i think is so important is i think we want political leaders who are in tune with the larger sweep of the culture of our times what had happened in those three or four centuries before the late 18th century in the united states you had the protestant reformations you had the entire structure of political thinking through the european enlightenment shifting from the idea that society should be organized vertically to having it be organized more horizontally that the divine right of kings was shifting to be understood as the divine right within each person to be a free agent we failed we failed we failed to make that promise to extend that idea to all people jefferson as we've seen fought for the greatest of causes and yet fell short of delivering justice to the persecuted and to the enslaved they set in motion however these men along long ago on this eastern seaboard they set in motion a process to try to perfect that union in 1859 abraham lincoln was invited to speak to a jefferson birthday celebration he couldn't do it he wrote a letter from springfield this is what he said all honor to jefferson to the man who in the concrete pressure and the struggle for national independence by a single people had the coolness forecast and capacity it's a wonderful phrase the coolness forecast and capacity to introduce into a merely revolutionary document an abstract truth and so to embalm it there that today and in all coming days it shall be a rebuke and stumbling block to the very harbingers of reappearing tyranny and oppression not a bad legacy not a bad legacy indeed you've been listening to john meacham he's the best-selling author and historian of thomas jefferson the art of power and america is unimaginable without jefferson or the other virginia giants the story of jefferson all honor to jefferson as lincoln said his story here on our 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