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Dancing with the Stars official podcast. New episodes every Thursday on Disney Plus and Hulu and wherever you get your podcasts. Uh And we return to our American stories. Up next, a story on the personal life of one of our most important founding fathers, Benjamin Franklin. A true Renaissance man, Franklin was an inventor, a politician, a publisher, and an all-around important thinker who shaped and continues to shape American thought and life.
But what about his faith? Here to tell the story of Ben Franklin's faith life is Dr. Darrell Hart. an associate professor of history. at Hillsdale College and the author of Benjamin Franklin, Cultural Protestant.
You'll also hear from Dr. Thomas Kidd. giving a lecture on the subject for the Centennial Institute. Colorado Christian University. Back in 2019, Let's start.
With Dr. Daryl Hart. I don't think he was religious in a conventional sense. For most of his life, Franklin had traditional Christian inquirers, especially family and friends, who asked him about the state of his beliefs and the state of his soul. In the last few weeks of Franklin's life, though, one more inquirer came on the stage.
Franklin had known Yale College President Ezra Stiles ever since Yale granted Franklin an honorary master's degree in 1753 in honor of Franklin's electrical experiments. Stiles realized that Franklin was near death. Quote: You have merited and received all the honors of the Republic of Letters. And are going to a world where all sublinary glories will be lost in the glories of immortality, Stiles wrote him. I wish to know the opinion of my venerable friend concerning Jesus of Nazareth.
Reverend and dear sir. You desire to know something of my religion. Here is my creed. I believe in one God, creator of the universe, that he governs it by his providence, and that he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable service we render to him is doing good to his other children.
That the soul of man is immortal. and will be treated with justice in another life, respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental principles of all sound religion. As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion the best the world ever saw. but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes.
and I have some doubts as to his divinity. though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon to have an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble, for I am now in my eighty fifth year. and very infirm. In spite of his qualms about traditional Christianity, he saw no harm, however, in its being believed. God had always been good to him.
and Franklin saw no reason to think that God's kindness would stop when he died. And die he did. on april seventeenth, seventeen ninety. And he left the enigma of his faith unresolved. Uh Okay.
In the study of religion, but also among religious people themselves. You'll often hear people talk about somebody being an observant Jew or an observant Roman Catholic. Those would be people that follow the practices of the religious tradition. And the people that don't, but are kind of part of it culturally, who sort of have it in their bones in the way that they still think about the world, even if they're not observant. People talk about those people as being cultural Roman Catholics or cultural Jews.
We don't use it as much. with Protestants, but I do think it's the case that Franklin, among other founders, would fall into that category.
Somebody who didn't necessarily go to church, although I think he did a little bit with his wife Deborah, because he did rent a pew for the family at Christ Church in Philadelphia. But, I mean, he had a sense that there was a God. He had a sense that morality was important, that people would be rewarded in the next life according to their good works or according to their misdeeds.
So he had a kind of ethical outlook, very much. Shaped. By Protestantism. I think the key to understanding Franklin's faith is the indelible imprint of his childhood Calvinism. The Protestantism in which he grew up in Boston and carried with him in some ways to Philadelphia.
Josiah, my father, married young and carried his wife with three children into New England about 1682, where they expected to enjoy their mode of religion with freedom. By the same wife, he had four children more born there. and by a second wife, ten more. This was common for women to die and men to remarry, and so he had children with two women. In all, 17, of which I remember 13 sitting at one time at his table, who all grew up to be men and women and married.
Franklin was the 10th. I was the youngest son, and the youngest child but two, and was born in Boston, New England. My mother, the second wife, was Abaya. His father was a kid. candle maker, just a tradesman, like Franklin himself would become.
And his father was active in the local church. It was pretty much expected that you would be. And he had kinds of responsibilities in the. city of Boston that were both civil And religious in the sense of looking out for people to make sure they were following good ways of living and the like. Franklin writes about reading scripture in the home and singing psalms in the home.
He was ingenious, could draw prettily, was skilled a little in music, and had a clear, pleasing voice, so that when he played psalm tunes on his violin and sung withal, it was extremely agreeable to hear. He had a mechanical genius too, but his great excellence laid in a sound understanding and solid judgment in prudential matters, both in private and in public affairs. In the latter, indeed, he was never employed, the numerous family he had to educate and the straightness of his circumstances keeping him close to his trade. But what I remember well is his being frequently visited by leading people, who consulted him for his opinion in affairs of the town or of the church he belonged to, and showed a great deal of respect for his judgment and advice. He was also much consulted by private persons about their affairs when any difficulty occurred, and frequently chosen as an arbitrator between two contending parties.
Which we can. Puritan piety could be pretty intense. Franklin's home was of a more moderate Puritan stripe, but still. Life was very much oriented around the church. as it was for all Bostonians.
Franklin His parents wanted to send him eventually to Harvard. and have him trained to be a pastor. But it doesn't seem that it really stuck. But still, he was well steeped in the sort of typical Protestant views. And then when he went to Philadelphia eventually, he tries to go to church, he tries to go to the Presbyterian church, as he writes about it in his autobiography.
He didn't really care for the kind of preaching that he found there. Though I seldom attended any public worship, I still had an opinion of its propriety and of its utility when rightfully conducted. And I regularly paid my annual subscription for the support of the only Presbyterian minister or meeting we had in Philadelphia. He used to visit me sometimes as a friend. and admonished me to attend his administrations, and I was now and then prevailed on to do so, once or five Sundays in a row.
Had he been, in my opinion, a good preacher, perhaps I might have continued, notwithstanding the occasion I had for the Sunday's leisure in my course of study, but his discourses were chiefly either polemic arguments or explanations of the peculiar doctrines of our sect, and were all to me very dry, uninteresting, and unedifying, since not a single moral principle was inculcated or enforced, their aim seeming to rather make us good Presbyterians than good citizens. At length he took for his text that verse of the fourth chapter of Philippians. Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, honest, just, pure, lovely, or of good report, if there be any virtue or any praise, think on these things. And I imagined in a sermon on such a text, we could not miss of having some morality. But he confined himself to five points only: one, keeping holy the Sabbath day, two, being diligent in reading the Holy Scriptures, three, attending duly the public worship.
4. Partaking in the sacrament. 5. Paying a due respect of God's ministers. These might be all good things.
But as they were not the kind of good things that I expected from the text. I despaired of ever meeting with them, was disgusted, and attended his preaching no more. My conduct might be blamable, but I leave it without attempting further to excuse it. My present purpose being to relate facts and not make apologies for them. When we continue more of this story, of Benjamin Franklin's faith here.
on our American stories. Hey, our ride's almost here. Are you ready? Just grabbing my shoes. That's what you said ten minutes ago.
I just dropped a video call, uploading this giant file on my tablet, looking at my watch go bananas with the group chat, and of course, still lining up tonight's playlist on my phone. All at once? Yep, story of my life. That's why I switched to T-Mobile. They have the fastest 5G network.
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Professional wrestling fans, the action continues every week. Watch CNA Thursday Night Impact every week on AMC. It is like a Electricity blowing through your veins. Don't miss the adrenaline, the drama, and the total non-stop action. No one can ever be as good as this right here!
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This is the Dan Lebatar Show. This is Dan Lebatar, and I've been doing this for more than two decades. Our show is contagious. It's a little bit addictive. It's uh.
In the most positive of ways. It has a good amount of range from smart to silly, and it's got a journalistic backbone. Monday through Friday, I show up and talk about sports, listen to the Dan Lebetard show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever it is that you get your podcasts. It's football season and Vizio mini LED TVs are here to turn your living room into the front row of the stadium. Watch every play come to life in breathtaking realism on a 55-inch or 65-inch mini LED TV.
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Now just 248 and 358. And we return to our American stories, and with the story of Benjamin Franklin's faith. When we last left off, we learned that Franklin didn't consider himself religious by the standards of his time. But he did have a strict moral code. which we'll shortly learn about.
Let's return to the story. Here again is Dr. Thomas Kidd speaking at the Centennial Institute. At Colorado Christian University in 2019, followed by Hillsdale College's Dr. Darrell Hart.
As a teenager, it's true he abandoned his parents' Puritan beliefs, but that same traditional faith kept him from getting too far away.
So he didn't necessarily go to church. He used Sundays to do reading and study because it was one day that he didn't have to work. And Franklin did have an incredible work ethic. He was the original Horatio Alger, who worked himself up by his bootstraps. One of the most influential interpretations of Franklin's religion appeared in Max Weber's classic study, The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism.
And for Weber, Franklin was a near-perfect example of how Protestantism. Drained of its doctrinal particularity, fostered modern capitalism. He was first and foremost a printer and publisher. He took over a newspaper in Philadelphia that had been around. There weren't many newspapers in the colonies in those days, but he took that over.
And had a very successful run as a publisher, not merely of newspapers, but of books and journals and pamphlets. His almanacs were also very successful, widely distributed, even though there were many other almanacs. Almanac's back. Then we were sort of like our smartphones. I mean, people kept diaries in them.
Dates of anniversaries and birthdays and whatnot. Anyway, Franklin was in that market.
So he's a very successful businessman. And along the way, he helped to establish in Philadelphia a variety of civic organizations, like the first hospital in North America, the first lending library in Philadelphia, at least. an academy that eventually became the University of Pennsylvania, one of the Ivy League institutions. He helped establish a fire company. He raised a militia in the 1740s because.
The residents of Philadelphia were worried about the French. All sorts of plans for cleaning up sidewalks and installing street lamps. He was an inventor. Bifocal eyeglasses. He invented a wood-burning stove that was supposed to be safer to prevent fires.
He also invented lightning rods.
So he had all that going for him before he retired at the young age of 42. And that's a kind of carryover of the so-called Protestant work ethic. Not because Protestants worked harder than Roman Catholics or Jews or other people, but back in the 16th century, people like Martin Luther argued that ordinary activities in the world, ordinary work in the world, even in the home, Mothers changing diapers. This was work that was dignified, that honored God, and that was part of the so-called priesthood of all believers in Franklin, I think. carried that Protestant conception of work with him and I don't know how much he necessarily thought about it in theological categories, but the work ethic that he exhibited, I think it's possible to explain from his Protestant background.
Uh You know, I think a lot of people also know Franklin. For the virtues that he pursues. The intense piety of his Puritan parents acted as a kind of a tethere. spiritually intellectually restraining Franklin's skepticism. He would stretch his moral and doctrinal tether to the breaking point by the end of a youthful sojourn he made to London.
And when he returned to Philadelphia in 1726, he resolved to conform more closely to his parents' ethical code because he really sowed his wild oats in London and he ended up broke. What's a problem? I do teach every year his autobiography, which has his plan for moral perfection or improvement. and keeps a little chart in a kind of O C D way. Which I find amusing and also kind of silly.
But he was a guy who liked to calculate things. I made a little book in which I allotted a page for each of the virtues. I ruled each page with red ink so as to have seven columns, one for each day of the week, marking each column with a letter for the day. I crossed these columns with 13 red lines, marking the beginning of each line with the first letter of one of the virtues, on which each line and in its proper column I might mark, by a little black spot, each fault I found upon examination to have committed respecting that virtue upon the day. And the virtues that he pursues there.
are a mix of ancient and Christian. One. Temperance. Eat not to dulness, drink not to elevation. Two.
Silence. Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself. Avoid trifling conversation. Order. that all your things have their places.
Let each part of your business have its time. Resolution. Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. Frugality.
Make no expense but to do good to others or yourself. Waste nothing. Industry. Lose no time. Be always employed in something useful.
Cut off all unnecessary actions. Sincerity. Justice. Moderation. Friendliness.
Chastity. Humility. Imitate Jesus. And Socrates. You know, I think that general program again has a lot of Christian morality behind it.
This is relevant. I mean, Franklin was a contemporary. of the Puritan theologian Jonathan Edwards. They were born roughly the same time, I think Edwards was 17. Anyway, Edwards, who was a very intense, zealous Protestant preacher, in addition to being the theologian.
In his youth he also had A scheme. for a kind of moral perfection or moral improvement. And in many respects it resembles Franklin's. It's striking to me that both of these men, even though with very different understandings of Christianity, did something similar and it makes me think That In New England Protestantism, or also known as Puritanism, that this was a common practice. Among people who wanted To improve their lives, keep a journal, and have some kind of plan, a scheme for moral improvement.
That similarity between those two figures of very different persuasions religiously. you could argue that Franklin's ideas about morality and ethics came from a Protestant background. He knew he needed to have a moral code, so he wondered: could he craft a Christianity? that was centered on virtue, Rather than on traditional doctrine, and avoid alienating his parents at the same time. More importantly, Could he, over the long term, convince the evangelical figures in his life, his sister Jane?
and the revivalist George Whitfield that all was well with his soul. And he would have more success convincing his sister than George Whitfield. And we've been listening to Dr. Thomas Kidd and Dr. Daryl Hart.
Tell the story of Benjamin Franklin's faith. And clearly, the Protestant background of his upbringing had a lot to do with Franklin's work ethic. his values, his obsession with ethics. And of course, the Protestant work ethic, it springs right from Luther's idea that work is dignified. and honored by God and Franklin carried that idea with them.
all the way. To the end. The story of Ben Franklin's faith. continues. Here.
on our American stories. Hey, our ride's almost here. Are you ready? Just grabbing my shoes. That's what you said ten minutes ago.
I just dropped a video call, uploading this giant file on my tablet, looking at my watch go bananas with the group chat, and of course, still lining up tonight's playlist on my phone. All at once? Yep, story of my life. That's why I switched to D-Mobile. They have the fastest 5G network.
Okay, multitasker. I see you. Honestly, I never imagined I could do all this at once. It's awesome. Say no more.
I'm totally switching. My post is taking way too long to upload. That's a sign you've got to get T-Mobile.
So many reasons to join T-Mobile. Find yours at T-Mobile.com. Yeah. FASTIS based on analysis by OCLO Speed Test Intelligence data of national speed score results incorporating 5G download and upload speeds for the first half of 2026. Spending time outdoors, then let's talk about skin cancer.
Non-melanoma skin cancers, or NMSCs, including basal cell carcinoma and cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma, are the most common cancers in the U.S. and can become harder to treat if left undetected. That's why sun protection and timely detection matter. Our sponsor, Regeneron, is raising awareness about advanced NMSCs. Learn more and take the pledge to see a dermatologist annually at let's get real about skincancer.com.
Professional wrestling fans, the action continues every week. Watch CNA Thursday Night Impact every week on AMC. like electricity blowing Through your veins. Don't miss the adrenaline, the drama, and the total non-stop action. No one can ever be as good as this right here!
Don't miss the action of TNA Thursday Night Impact every week on AM SIG. For show types and more information, visit TNAWrestling.com. Love discovering new music before anyone else? Stop being just a listener. Start making the rules and work with your new favorite artist before they even break.
The Beam is a free music competition app where real emerging artists compete, you vote, and massive brands step in to fund the next big name. Your votes change careers. Find them first. Download the Beam at TheBeam.com or on the App Store. Vote for an artist you love or discover your next obsession.
It's the first music chart that A's artists. Uh You've watched racing.
Now get behind the wheel. At Kaizen Autosport Racing School in VIR, professional race drivers teach you how to drive faster, safer, and with more confidence on one of America's legendary racetracks. Never driven on track? We'll get you started. Already experienced, we'll take you to the next level.
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This is the Dan Lebatar Show. This is Dan Labatar, and I've been doing this for more than two decades. Our show is contagious. It's a little bit addictive. It's uh.
How is it? In the most positive of ways. It has a good amount of range from smart to silly, and it's got a journalistic backbone. Monday through Friday, I show up and talk about sports, listen to the Dan Lebetard show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever it is that you get your podcasts. It's football season and Vizio Mini LED TVs are here to turn your living room into the front row of the stadium.
Watch every play come to life in breathtaking realism on a 55-inch or 65-inch mini LED TV. Plus, crank your favorite game day tunes on the iHeartRadio app built right into your Vizio TV. Big screens, big picture, and a totally immersive experience. Find rollback deals at Walmart today on Vizio 55-inch and 65-inch mini LED TVs.
Now just 248 and 358. And we return to Our American Stories in the final portion of our story on Benjamin Franklin's faith. When we last left off, an important relationship in Franklin's life was alluded to. professional relationship with evangelist George Whitfield. That relationship would say a lot about Franklin's relationship with religion.
Let's continue with the story here again. is Hillsdale College's Doctor Darrell Hart. The evangelist revivalist George Whitfield, who was also an Anglican priest, associated with what people call the first great awakening. I prefer to call it the first pretty good awakening, but Whitfield was just an incredible figure. He was an itinerant.
traveling preacher, traveling on horseback. preaching oftentimes twice a day. preaching outside. Was no Amplification other than his own voice and his own being to project himself.
Some would get the impression that he was just a mob orator who appealed to drunken miners, but this was far from being the case. he was equally popular with the gentry and the great in the land. Take for instance with the well-known actor David Garrick. Garrick said He could melt an audience from euphoric joy to tears merely by saying and pronouncing the word Mesopotamia in different ways. Incredible speaker.
And Franklin was intrigued by Whitfield and went out to listen to him. And there's a famous part of his autobiography where he admits that Whitfield was so persuasive that I happened to attend one of his sermons, in the course of which I perceived he intended to finish with a collection. and I silently resolved he should get nothing from me. I had in my pocket a handful of copper money, and gold. As he proceeded, I began to soften, and concluded to give the coppers.
Another stroke of his oratory made me ashamed that and determined me to give the silver. And he finished so admirably that I emptied my pocket wholly into the collector's dish, gold and all. He emptied his pockets. All of it into the plate as it went by. And also, he mentions, he charts how Whitfield could speak.
probably to twenty five thousand people. He had a loud and clear voice, and articulated his words and sentences so perfectly that he might be heard and understood at a great distance. I had the curiosity to learn how far it could be heard, by retiring backwards down the street towards the river, And I found his voice distant till I came to Front Street. when some noise in that street obscured it. Imagining then a semicircle, of which my distance should be the radius, and that it were filled with auditors, to each whom I allowed two square feet, I computed that he might well be heard by more than 30,000.
This reconciled me to the newspaper accounts of having preached to twenty five thousand people in the fields, and to the ancient histories of generals, haranguing whole armies of which I had sometimes doubted. But he and Whitfield also had They had a business relationship. Franklin published a lot of the evangelist diaries and other works. He also published a lot of the critics of Whitfield. Franklin could make money off both sides, but they corresponded.
Whitfield, when he visited, would stay with Franklin sometimes. There was even talk in the 1740s When the colonists were thinking about adding a new colony inland more, they were talking about Ohio as a potential colony to the west. And Franklin wrote to Whitfield about maybe we should start this colony together.
So that even though Franklin didn't share Whitfield's pretty intense, Protestant faith. They were friendly, cordial, and Franklin recognized a lot of positive benefits that came from Whitfield's time. time in America. Franklin was a kind of skeptical guy about some of the claims, especially the supernatural or miraculous aspects of Christianity. Many recent scholars have taken Franklin at his word by describing him as a deist.
The odd thing about deism, to me at least, is that there was no Deist club. With people, a constitution and bylaws and a set of beliefs, and you got a membership card. when you went through some kind of examination.
Some said they believed in the Bible. As originally written. Others doubted the Bible's reliability altogether.
Some deists believed that God remained involved with life on earth. Others saw God, yes, as the cosmic watchmaker. Winding up the world and then letting it run on its own. In that technical, formal sense, I don't think Franklin was a deist, but I don't think many people were. Deus doesn't quite capture the texture or trajectory of.
Ben Franklin's beliefs. But he did have views that you could argue were compatible with deism, which is that there's a God, the immortality of the soul. People are responsible for their actions, and they will be judged in the world to come for those actions. And so it's kind of a moral program. And it has God in the picture, it's not so much that he didn't like parts of Christianity, and the parts of Christianity.
that he didn't believe. Things like the deity of Christ, the resurrection of Christ. the miracles that Christ performed. They just weren't believable to him. I think he might have found them somewhat charming, and the people who believed in those parts of it somewhat charming, just as I think he was kind of charmed by Islam at times and other religious.
Groups that he would read about, voracious curiosity. But he just He didn't believe it, and he knew in some ways that to be a decent Christian, you had to believe those things. That's what he didn't believe, but I wouldn't put it in a hostile way. He liked a lot of the other stuff and he really related well. To prominent Protestant people from his time and era.
For Franklin the point was never just belief, but virtuous action. In his code of doctrinalist moralized Christianity, He became the founding father of perhaps the most pervasive kind of spirituality in the Western world today.
somebody who didn't necessarily go to church. But, I mean, he had a sense that there was a God. He had a sense that morality was important. He had a kind of ethical outlook, very much shaped. by Protestantism.
The importance of the Bible. Which is like, well, kind of duh. Don't all Christians believe in the importance of the Bible?
Well, they do, but the Protestants. emphasized it in some ways more, which then sets into motion Other aspects of Protestant values, one of those the importance of reading. And reading the Bible, it's not as if. Other Christians, such as Roman Catholics, didn't Believe in reading the Bible. But there were fears among Roman Catholic clergy about if the lady gets a hold of the Bible, will they get their own ideas and begin?
to think contrary to the church in certain ways. Protestants didn't want the genie to get out of the bottle either, but Their way outside of the Roman Catholic Church was to promote the Bible, promote reading, and also then in Protestant worship. Sermons, long, long sermons are a big part of it, which also means that Protestants were attached to words, to ideas, perhaps in ways different from Roman Catholics or maybe some other groups who would be attached to liturgies or ceremonies or even art. And it's not as if Protestants didn't value art But it just didn't have. As large a a part of Protestant Devotion.
So, the importance of ideas, importance of words, importance of reading, the importance of business and work, those would all be Protestant values. And again, they almost. Fit Franklin. to a T and You know, we live in a world over 300 years removed from Franklin and over almost 500 years removed from the Protestant Reformation. And so many of those values that I mentioned, we sort of take for granted in the world of American business and American society.
middle class life. We take parts of that so for granted that we sort of lose a sense that they weren't always the way that Europeans and British operated, and Protestantism encouraged it. I'm not saying it's solely responsible for it, but even somebody like Max Weber, the German sociologist, saw in Protestant understandings of God and salvation and Protestant understanding of vocation that is serving God and your ordinary activities. He saw in this Protestant outlook ways that energized modern economics and modern. Politics.
So, those are some of the Protestant values, even though they sound very much like ordinary values that a lot of people who aren't Protestant also share. And a terrific job on the production, editing, and storytelling by our own Monty Montgomery himself, a Hillsdale College graduate. And a special thanks to Dr. Darrell Hart, an associate professor of history at Hillsdale College and the author of Benjamin Franklin. Cultural Protestant.
Also, a special thanks to Dr. Thomas Kidd. Giving a lecture on the subject for the Centennial Institute. Colorado Christian University back in 2019. The story of Benjamin Franklin's faith here.
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Now just 248 and 358. Mm-hmm.
