This is an iHeart Podcast. Hey, what's up? It's Mario Lopez. Back to schools, an exciting time, but it can also be overwhelming, and kids may feel isolated. A vulnerability that human traffickers can exploit.
Human trafficking doesn't always look like what you expect. Everyday moments can become opportunities for someone with bad intentions, whether you're a parent, teacher, coach, or neighbor. Check in. Ask questions. Stay connected.
Blue Campaign is a national awareness initiative that provides resources to help recognize suspected instances of human trafficking. Learn the signs and how to report at dhs.gov/slash blue campaign. Ah, come on, why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient. Still using yesterday's tech?
Upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon, ultra-light, ultra-powerful, and built for serious productivity with Intel Core ultra-processors, blazing speed, and AI-powered performance that keeps up with your business, not the other way around. This thing moves. Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search at lenovo.com. Yeah.
Uh Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 Carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra Processors so you can work, create, and boost productivity all on one device. I'm Scott Hanson, host of NFL Red Zone. Lowe's knows Sundays hit different when you earn them. We've got you covered with outdoor power equipment from Cobalt and everything you need to weatherproof your deck with Trex decking. Plus, with lawn care from Scotts and, of course, pit boss grills and accessories, you can get a home field advantage all season long.
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Shop the sale in the Abercrombie app, online, and in stores. 20 to 50% off all sweatshirts and sweatpants is valid in US and Canada through October 13th, 2025. Excludes clearance, online price reflex discount. Use code iHeartAF for an extra 15% off almost everything through October 13th, 2025 in US and Canada. Exclusions apply.
See details online. Right now, America's Christian Credit Union is offering the top 12-month certificate rate in the nation. This limited time offer is just for new ACCU members. Earn 4.75% APY on deposits up to $1 million, and it only takes $1,000 to get started. It's called a term share certificate, similar to a CD, but with a mission and supports what matters: Christian schools, churches, adoptions, and more.
Visit America's ChristianCU.com to get started. America's Christian Credit Union is federally insured by the NCUA. This is Lee Habib, and this is Our American Stories, the show where America is the star. And the American people. To search for the Our American Stories podcast, go to the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.
Up next, you're going to hear from Neil White. who's the author of In the Sanctuary of Outcasts. For much of his early life, Neil's appearance and status is what mattered most to him. He'll be sharing his story of a time when all of that was stripped from him. and how he came to realize the real important things in his life.
For most of the 20th century, Anyone in the continental United States who contracted leprosy was sent to this colony in Louisiana, just south of Baton Rouge. It was located on a bend in the Mississippi River that was surrounded on all three sides by water. For most of that time, they were taken against their will and sent there.
sometimes brought in shackles, sometimes at gunpoint. When they got there, they were given an inmate number. They were made to change their names, they took an alias, they couldn't vote, they couldn't marry, some of the most tragic stories you've ever heard.
So that treatment went on. from 1896 to 1969. And in 1969, they discovered a cure and they threw open the gates of the colony and said to the four or five hundred patients who were there, you're free to go. A year later, only 17 had left. Their families had abandoned them.
They had no place to go. They didn't want to go out in public with disfigured limbs.
So they had created this community and this culture with its own mores and traditions and so they felt safe in this colony.
So in 1969, the government decided that they would be allowed to stay there and they could live there for the rest of their lives.
So jump forward almost 30 years and there are only 130 of those patients left. and there are all these empty beds where the leprosy patients used to live. And so a fiscally responsible bureaucrat said, I've got an idea. Instead of wasting taxpayers' dollars on building a new federal prison, Let's put nonviolent offenders and infirmed inmates, inmates who had a medical problem because there was a hospital there for the leprosy patients in these empty rooms and we'll save the taxpayer a great deal of money.
So just about the time that they did that, which was 1993. I was a magazine publisher. I was 32 years old and I was going to conquer the world. I wanted to build the biggest magazine empire faster than anybody else had. And I stumbled across this technique.
It's a crime you can't commit anymore, called kiting checks, where you could write a check to yourself from yourself when I was running short of money until real money came in. I'd been doing it off and on for. years and years. It is absolutely illegal. And I got to a point after acquiring Louisiana Life magazine where The House of Carts just fell.
The FDIC came in and did an audit at the bank. and I ended up pleading to one count of bank fraud and was sentenced to 18 months in federal prison. and it just so happened that I was sent to the experimental prison. in Carrville, Louisiana.
So this was pre-internet. I had no idea where I was going. I knew it was a minimum security prison and that I would probably not be in danger physically. I knew I wouldn't see my kids except in the visiting room. But I had no inkling.
of what actually waited behind those gates. I packed a leather bag. With books and racquetball rackets and tennis shoes and shorts, like I was going to camp. And I was not going to be late reporting to prison.
So I got there early, and the guard was looking at his watch saying, you know, 30 minutes early, you're still a free man. It's like, no, no, I'm good. I'll just wait right here. You know, I was so ridiculous. Just wanting to do everything right and figuring that If I did, I would get special treatment there, which of course I did not.
I was standing there waiting for a guard to come collect me. And I saw a man. walking down this hallway and when he got To the window closest to me, he waved to me and he didn't have any fingers. And so I went over to this guard house and I said, Uh I just I just saw a guy with no f fingers, I assumed it might have been like a prison industry accident. And the guy said, oh, that's a Hansen's disease patient.
And I said, what's that? And he said, it used to be called leprosy. And that was the first time that I knew something might be off.
So, a guard came to get me. He strip searched me. He let me keep two books, gave me a couple of clothes I could keep, and he gave me a piece of paper with my room number on it. And so, I walked out of that office into this courtyard where the prison was located. surrounded by two-story concrete walls and walkways.
When I walked out, I saw men sunbathing on a shuffleboard court. I saw 20 or 30 men who were over 500 pounds, a couple who were 600 pounds playing dominoes. They sent the most morbidly obese inmates there for the hospital. I saw men in wheelchairs. Who had been amputated so high they had to be in a bucket so they wouldn't fall out.
It was just this unbelievable. crew of characters. I had been thrown into this place with not only the last Americans in prison for disease, but also. These inmates, most of whom I thought would be non-violent offenders, But because the medical inmates, a lot of them were there for heart attacks or stroke or diabetes or something like that. And a lot of those inmates did have a violent pest.
I was sort of disoriented that this was not at all the kind of club fed that I thought I was going to be going into. I was so appalled that I had been subjected to these people that I was going to write an expose, and when I got out of prison, reveal to the world as a journalist. What this horrible government experiment was going on that nobody knew about, where inmates could get leprosy and violent inmates were put in with minimum security inmates. I was completely in denial that I needed to change, that I needed this experience. And that's how I went in.
As I was wandering, trying to find where I should put my stuff, I saw this woman in a wooden antique hand-cranked wheelchair. She didn't have any legs and she was sort of wobbling down the hall in this wheelchair not being able to go straight very well. And I knew this was an all-male prison, and I assumed she wasn't a prison guard. I held my breath and stepped back and as she cried. She said, there's no place like home.
And then she turned a corner. And an inmate came up to me and said, You see that woman? She was dropped off here when she was 12 years old and her family never came back to see her. And he said, are you still feeling sorry for yourself? And when we come back, more with Neil White's story here on Our American Stories.
Lee Habib here, the host of Our American Stories. Every day on this show, we're bringing inspiring stories from across this great country. Stories from our big cities and small towns, but we truly can't do this show without you. Our stories are free to listen to, but they're not free to make. If you love what you hear, go to ouramericanstories.com and click the donate button.
Give a little, give a lot. Go to ouramericanstories.com and give. Time for a sofa upgrade? Visit washable sofas.com and discover Anibay, where designer style meets budget-friendly prices, with sofas starting at $699. AniBay brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly.
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Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washable sofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30-day money-back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com. Offers are subject to change and restrictions may apply.
Hey, what's up, it's Mario Lopez. Back to schools, an exciting time, but it can also be overwhelming and kids may feel isolated, a vulnerability that human traffickers can exploit. Human trafficking doesn't always look like what you expect. Everyday moments can become opportunities for someone with bad intentions, whether you're a parent, teacher, coach, or neighbor, Check in. Ask questions.
Stay connected. Blue Campaign is a national awareness initiative that provides resources to help recognize suspected instances of human trafficking. Learn the signs and how to report at dhs.gov/slash blue campaign. Okay. Come on, why is this taking so long?
This thing is ancient. Still using yesterday's tech? Upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon. Ultra-light, ultra-powerful, and built for serious productivity with Intel Core ultra-processors, blazing speed, and AI-powered performance that keeps up with your business, not the other way around. Whoa, this thing moves.
Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search at lenovo.com. Lenovo, Lenovo. Novel. Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 Carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra Processors so you can work, create, and boost productivity all on one device.
Abercrombie's coziest sale ever means 20 to 50% off all sweatshirts and sweatpants. And iHeart listeners are getting an extra 15% off almost everything with code iHeartAF. Matching sets and Abercrombie's iconic soft day of fabric were made for fall. Shop the sale in the app, online, and in stores. 20 to 50% off all sweatshirts and sweatpants is valid in the US and Canada through 1013-2025.
Excludes clearance, online price reflex discount. Use code iHeartAF for an extra 15% off almost everything through 10-13-2025 in US and Canada. Exclusions apply, see details online. In a time where money often feels disconnected from meaning, It's rare to find a place where your savings can actually reflect your values. That's why I'm here to tell you about a powerful opportunity with America's Christian Credit Union.
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So don't wait, lock in your rate before it drops. Visit America's Christian CU.com and get started. America's Christian Credit Union is federally insured by the NCUA. And we're back with Our American Stories and with author Neil White's story. When we last left off, Neil had just entered prison.
and had encountered a woman with leprosy. That woman's name was Ella Baume. Back to Neil.
So later that week, I was assigned to a job in the cafeteria. I was doing the leprosy patients menu board, and I was there from 4 a.m. to noon.
So at about 5 a.m. one morning, I was in their cafeteria and I saw this woman whose name was Ella Bounce. And I asked her how she ended up here. Ella leaned back in her wheelchair, settling in. Denham Spring, she said in a whisper.
1926, I was in grade school. According to Ella, a doctor had visited the one-room schoolhouse to administer shots. The raised oval spots on her leg where the pigmentation had disappeared had caught his attention. He pricked the blotches with a needle. Ella felt nothing.
Next week White Man drives up, Ella said. And I seen the Carol Boy pointing outside. Ooh, Ella, he say, bounty hunter fixin' to carry you away. I look out and seen the man leaning on his truck, wearing dark glasses, arms crossed all tight. A hand-painted sign large enough to be seen from neighboring farms and which would later be nailed to the side of her family's tenant house extended from the back of the white man's pickup truck.
Ella couldn't read the long words scrawled in red letters. Later she would understand. Quarantine. The schoolteacher put her hand on Ella's shoulder, pulled her up from her desk, and led her outside. The other children ran over to the window.
The teacher walked her across the small schoolyard toward the truck that idled at the edge of the field. The bounty hunter uncrossed his arms and pushed back his coat to expose a pistol. The teacher stopped and took her hand off Ella's shoulder. The man pointed to the back of the truck. And Ella climbed in.
As he drove away, Ella looked out through the wooden slats. Um I was sentenced to 18 months for mishandling nearly a million dollars. She had been there 68 years because she was susceptible to a bacterial infection, and standing in front of her. Hearing that story. It was virtually impossible to muster up anything resembling self-pity.
You never know how you're going to act when you go into a prison. I certainly knew. That I wasn't going to be one of the tough guys. I wasn't going to get into a fight. I wanted to get out as soon as I possibly could.
because I had a six-year-old son and a three-year-old daughter. I wanted to follow all the rules. I learned to be the best inmate I could be. And so I went in. Deciding that I wasn't going to put on any airs.
I was just going to be myself. I was going to ask the questions I wanted to ask. I was going to be friendly. I was going to use manners and be polite.
So uh sort of scurried off into a hallway to try and find my room. I walk in, and my new roommate is reading a medical journal, laying back on his cot, and he drops it on his chest, and he looks up at me. And I introduced myself as Neil. He told me his name was Nick and everybody there called him Doc. And uh he asked me if I snitched on anybody and I told him that I I had committed this crime on my own.
There was no conspiracy. There was nobody else. I didn't testify against anybody. And he said, well, good, because I hate snitches. Apparently his accountant.
turned state's evidence over and that's why he was in prison. But it turns out this guy was brilliant. He went to University of Tennessee Medical School. And he said he had learned more in his 15 years in prison than he did in medical school because. Tennessee never suspended his medical license, so he got every medical journal for free, and he had the time to read them all.
So he was up on the latest of everything. And he got in trouble. because he had developed this weight loss drug. The abbreviation is DNP, it's got a long chemical name. It's an illegal drug, but he discovered it when he was hired by the CIA to translate Russian documents.
And this drug was used during World War II, not As a drug against enemies, but for the Russian troops, it prevented them from getting frostbite. It warmed their extremities and their body. And he saw in a footnote that the soldiers were losing five to ten pounds a week when they took this truck. And he started doing research on it, and he discovered that he could give it to women, and they would lose weight without exercising. And he had clinics all over the South.
He said the lines were around the corner of overweight women coming in to get this DNP, which was completely illegal. And a lot of them were poor, so it was about $40 million in Medicaid fraud from what I understand, but. The patients loved him, and the weight fell off, and he was dispensing this illegal drug. I think Doc could have done worlds of good for mankind if he had been placed in a pharmaceutical company. and just said, we're going to give you a million dollars a year and vent stuff.
But he always, and I think, and that was the problem with all of us in prison, there was this hubris, this ego. that he wanted to be the person who led the charge, who got the accolades, who made all the money, and I can't say that I was much different from that in my own realm.
So, you know, I wanted to put up photographs of my kids in my locker, and I said. Do you have any tape or paste? I want to stick these photographs in a locker and doc reached over. Grabbed his toothpaste and tossed it to me. And I said, What's this?
He said, Toothpaste. taste. And so I spread toothpaste on the back of the photographs and put them up there. I didn't know anything about the rules. I wanted my clothes to be not just ironed, but starched if possible.
I missed cologne. I mean, I was such a fish out of water and I didn't know any other way to act.
So, you can't have paper money in federal prisons. The reason for that is you could accumulate a lot of it.
So you can only have coins.
So when I came in with $20, they exchanged it for two rolls of quarters. and I put them in my locker after I put my kids' photographs up with the toothpaste. And later that night, I came back and Doc was there and I opened my locker and The quarters were gone and I said Somebody took My quarters. And he didn't even look up from reading. He said, Rumor has it there are criminals here.
I just, I was such. a fish out of water. The second week I was in prison, I was in the admission and orientation room to learn the rules of the prison. Of course, I wanted to be a model inmate to get back home as soon as I could. And during the presentation, I noticed there was an inmate who was turned away from the presenter, staring at me.
who was a crack dealer from New Orleans, we called Link. I went up to him and I said, excuse me, I don't mean any disrespect, but why do you Keep staring at me. And he said, man, you look just like Clark Kent. What the hell did you do to get in here? And I said, well, I'm in here for bank fraud.
And he said, you're a bank robber? No, no, no, no, no, not bank robber, bank fraud. I was kiting checks to keep my business afloat. And he said, let me ask you something. Did a bank lose money?
I said, well, yeah, actually, there were two banks involved. He said, then you're a damn bank robber. And they all started laughing. Everybody was listening in. And he said, How much did you get?
He got real excited. I didn't get any. I was paying printers and payroll and investors and I was leveraging one part of the company to expand in another. He said, how much did the backs lose? And I said, well, together they lost.
$750,000. And he said, and how much of that do you have? And I said, I told you, I don't have any. And he said, man, I've been in jails all over this country and you are the stupidest criminal I've ever met. And so by the time the week ended, he was following me around, asking me questions, and he determined that I was not only the stupidest criminal.
and the boringest person he'd ever met, but I was the whitest man he had ever met. And then when he found out my name was Neil White, it was just all over with. But this guy, he was uneducated, but he was brilliant. He could size you up and dismantle you. And he was so street smart compared to me.
And he told me after about the third day. Man, your ass is in prison. You don't need to be abusing manners and shit. And I was like, well, that's just how I talk. Thank you, excuse me.
I just, I was myself. And I think maybe I had sort of lost that on the outside because I was trying to be something I wasn't. And you're listening to author Neil White. The book is in the sanctuary of outcasts. You can get it at Amazon or wherever you get your books.
And you will not put this book down. It's one of the finest reads I've come across. And you know, we love books and authors of all stripes here on Our American Stories. And my goodness, the cast of characters you'll meet. Noah.
My goodness, your heart'll weep. for this woman and her life and yet She's happy. And of course, there's Doc. and Link. I loved what he said about Neil.
You're the stupidest criminal I ever met. You're the boringest criminal I ever met, and you're the whitest criminal I ever met. And then he finds out, of course, that Neil's last name is. white. When we come back, more of Neil White's story.
He hails right from here in Oxford, Mississippi, a writer's town, if ever there was one. home to Faulkner and Grisham, Richard Ford, and so many others. Here on Our American Stories. Time for a sofa upgrade? Visit washable sofas.com and discover Anibay, where designer style meets budget-friendly prices, with sofas starting at $699.
Anibay brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anibay is the only machine-washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain-resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high-resilience foam lets you choose between a sink-in-feel or a supportive memory foam blend.
Plus, our pet-friendly stain-resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washable sofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30-day money-back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free return. Shop now at washable sofas.com.
Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Hey, what's up? It's Mario Lopez. Back to schools, an exciting time, but it can also be overwhelming and kids may feel isolated, a vulnerability that human traffickers can exploit. Human trafficking doesn't always look like what you expect.
Everyday moments can become opportunities for someone with bad intentions, whether you're a parent, teacher, coach, or neighbor. Check in. Ask questions. Stay connected. Blue Campaign is a national awareness initiative that provides resources to help recognize suspected instances of human trafficking.
Learn the signs and how to report at dhs.gov/slash blue campaign. Ah, come on. Come on, why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient. Still using yesterday's tech?
Upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon, ultra-light, ultra-powerful, and built for serious productivity with Intel Core ultra-processors, blazing speed, and AI-powered performance that keeps up with your business, not the other way around. This thing moves. Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech search at lenovo.com. Lenovo, Lenovo.
No. Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 Carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra Processors so you can work, create, and boost productivity all on one device. All Abercrombie sweatshirts and sweatpants are 20 to 50% off right now. And iHeart listeners are getting an extra 15% off almost everything with code iHeartAF. Get your hands on the viral essential popover hoodie and the rest of ANF's Essentials collection.
Shop the sale in the Abercrombie app, online, and in stores. 20 to 50% off all sweatshirts and sweatpants is valid in US and Canada through October 13th, 2025. Excludes clearance, online price reflex discount. Use code iHeartAF for an extra 15% off almost everything through October 13th, 2025 in US and Canada. Exclusions apply.
See details online. Right now, America's Christian Credit Union is offering the top 12-month certificate rate in the nation. This limited time offer is just for new ACCU members. Earn 4.75% APY on deposits up to $1 million, and it only takes $1,000 to get started. It's called a term share certificate.
Similar to a CD, but with a mission and supports what matters: Christian schools, churches, adoptions, and more. Visit America's ChristianCU.com to get started. America's Christian Credit Union is federally insured by the NCUA. And we're back with Our American Stories and with author Neil White. He's been sharing with us his various adventures in the first few weeks in a prison in Louisiana.
dedicated to leprosy patients were turned into a prison. for well all kinds of characters. Back to Neil.
So, my first day of working the 4 a.m. shift in the kitchen, I went out to meet the guys and be escorted to the kitchen by guard. I mean, it was balmy even at 4 a.m. It was probably 70, 80 degrees. And I noticed four or five of the guys had on these huge heavy coats and these big mitts.
And I was like, that is idiotic. They're going to die in this heat. And so We all walked to the kitchen and After about 30 minutes, the guard left. I don't know if he went back to his office or what, and I was washing dishes and making toast, and I noticed that. There weren't many people around.
A bunch of them had disappeared.
So one of the people cooking asked me to go into the big cooler. And get something. I don't know if it was fruit or whatever. And so I walked in and I didn't see it initially, so I walked toward the back. And I noticed that there were these three inmates asleep in the very back of the cooler.
They had gotten up on boxes of produce and fruit and stuff. And made these sort of makeshift beds, and they had bundled up in their coats and mittens, and they were sleeping. They were just sleeping the morning away in the cooler. And I couldn't believe it. These guys, they were literally sleeping on the job in like.
37 degree temperature.
So there were about a third of us who did all the work. But what always struck me, and I guess the same thing would be said about me, these guys were so creative and went to such lengths to Do things the wrong way if they had. funneled that energy into doing something that was sort of productive or legal, there's no telling what they could have accomplished. but they just thrived on beating the system.
So I was washing dishes with a guy named Jefferson. And he was asking me what I did and I asked him what he did. And he said that he worked at the post office and he manned the x-ray machine at the Loyola Street post office in New Orleans. And said, x-ray machine, why do they have an x-ray machine? He said, every package, every letter goes through the x-ray machine to make sure there's nothing dangerous.
And I said, Did you ever see anything interesting go through? And he said, Every damn day. You see cash money coming through there? He said, I'd pick up that letter, stick it in my pocket, and go home. And I said, You really took cash from the mail?
And he said, Absolutely. He said, some of the nicest letters you've ever seen in your life. He said, I'd take those things and read them and say, Dear Tommy, here's four $100 bills for your fourth birthday. And he said, I would start singing, Happy Birthday to me, Happy Birthday to Me. I said, I can't believe it.
I used to send, you know, cash to my kids and to friends. I said, didn't you ever feel bad about that? He said, Oh, yeah, absolutely. This one day, it was another kid who was turning six years old and there were six $100 bills. And I said, And you felt bad, right?
And he said, Yeah, because I was hoping he was a teenager. And he just went on and on and on. He had absolutely no remorse about this, but he was hysterical. I was bent over, laughing, and appalled at the same time. But these are the people you encountered there.
So We had pay phones and we could make collect calls. not called you know, as much as I could to speak to the kids. And there was always this recording that interrupted about every three minutes. This call emanates from a federal correctional facility.
So I was talking to Linda, my wife, and she told me that she was Bowing for divorce. And I was just absolutely devastated. What's interesting is I had filed for bankruptcy. I had been humiliated in the newspapers. There was six columns across the top of the headline, white sentence to prison.
I lost my house. I lost my money. All these things happened. and I still didn't hit what for me was rock bottom. But the thought of not living with my kids, not putting my kids with my kids.
them to bed every night, not waking up with them every morning, that was the one that finally got me. I looked for an abandoned hallway, a corner in the library, an empty television room. but inmates were everywhere. I couldn't catch my breath. Air didn't go deep enough.
My hands trembled. I felt nauseated. I needed to cry, but I couldn't let anyone see me, not a guard. or an inmate or leprosy patient. I sat on a bench in the corner of the inmate courtyard.
Slumped over, I could feel my heart pound. That's where Link saw me. Look at Clark Kent feeling all sad. I wanted him to go away. My wife is leaving me, I said, hoping he would take the hint.
Damn he said, laughing, like he thought this was way too funny. You've been lying your whole life. You lost $2 million and your ass is in jail. What the hell do you think she's going to do? You know, Link had a way of bringing you out of your self-pity and pointing out that, yeah, you might be sad, but uh, This shouldn't have been a surprise to you.
By the time I was 31, ambition had become the driving force in my life. Privately, I envisioned the figure I would become, owner of a huge network of city magazines, editor of a daily newspaper. holder of innumerable civic awards, owner of a fabulous yacht, and of course philanthropist. With these images fixed in my mind, I was able to overlook what I did to get there. But the prospect of losing my children had stripped away every pretense.
It did what bankruptcy, public humiliation, and imprisonment had not done. I could no longer stomach my own lies and delusions. For the first time, I felt the full weight of my crimes. I began the process of asking myself the hard questions. How did I get so far off course?
How could I have hurt so many people? How could I have put my family at risk? Could I avoid caring what people thought of me? And how could I support my family in a way that did no harm but allowed me to help others? I'd never set aside the time to look at how I felt.
Or where I was headed, I believed I could not afford to question my motives. I was focused on a single goal. success. and had no interest in anything that stood in the way. I'd convinced myself that kiting checks wasn't a real crime.
I'd also convinced myself that there were no real victims as long as I covered the overdraft. but deep down. I knew better. I used to tell people that I was my own best customer. I could convince myself of anything that justified what I wanted.
And that is a really, really dangerous way to live. You know, I knew I needed to change and I knew I needed to do things differently. And I told Ella about that. I said, you know, I want to be a new person, but I still wake up feeling sort of the same. Ella intertwined her fingers like she always did when she told the story.
In the early days of Carville, she explained, the Coca-Cola distributor from Baton Rouge sent chipped and cracked Coke bottles to the colony so he could refuse to accept the return bottles. He feared a public boycott if customers discovered the glass containers had been touched by the lips of leprosy patients. More drink bottles than you've ever seen, she said. The crates of bottles filled closets and storerooms, but the patients discovered new uses for the non-returnable bottles. They use them as flower vases with beautiful arrangements.
They became sugar dispensers in the cafeteria. For impromptu bowling games on the lawn, the bottles were used as pins. They were turned upside down and stuffed into the dirt to line flowerbeds and walks on the carval grounds. Coca-Cola bottle's still a Coca-Cola bottle, Ella said. Just found him a new purpose.
And I think what she was telling me was, I didn't necessarily need to be a new person, that those same traits I was born with could be used for good or not so good. And that felt true. I'm a totally different person. I made a 180 degree turnaround. I think we're all made up of what we're made up of, and we're going to make mistakes, and we're going to stumble, and we're going to fall, and bad things are going to happen.
But the solution to that is not a 180. It's a more subtle series of shifts, and that's the gift she sort of gave me and pointed out to me. And you're listening to Neil White, author of In the Sanctuary of Outcasts. a terrific read, and a terrific storyteller. Oh my goodness.
That understanding of what had happened when he kited those checks. He endured the humiliation in newspapers of bankruptcy, a lost house. but the filing for divorce. and possibly losing his children. That's when Neil hit bottom.
And wouldn't we all? And when we come back, more with Neil White's story here. on our American stories. Time for a sofa upgrade? Visit washable sofas.com and discover Anibay, where designer style meets budget-friendly prices, with sofas starting at $699.
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when he was in prison. Here's Neil. with the rest of his story.
So Linda grew up in Oxford. Her family was here. Her friends were here. We had moved to the coast and to New Orleans when all this went down.
So she decided to move back to Oxford, smaller town. for her and for the kids. And so, you know, I realized I needed to be here too if I was going to be a good father. And In a long handwritten note, Linda outlined every reason I should not move to Oxford. But in the last paragraph her tone shifted.
She would not resist my decision, acknowledging she might be making a huge mistake, she believed Neil and Maggie needed both of us. She closed her letter with a request. Please respect my space and privacy. For the sake of our children, Linda was willing to sacrifice her desire to be far from me. I would have some hard times after my release, especially in Oxford, but Linda's blessing gave me great hope.
Blend had done something remarkable. She had given me a second chance. a second chance with my children. At that point in time, I was in the Catholic Church. And I was sort of I'd been crying for a couple of days.
I couldn't believe that this was happening to me. And I noticed a new leprosy patient. I'd never seen him before, but that wasn't unusual. Patients from around the world came to Carville for special surgeries and treatments. but he was performing a ritual I'd never seen.
He put his Bible to his chin and pressed it against his mouth like he was licking the pages. During communion, Standing at the altar, I got a closer look. He was blind, and like most the victims of leprosy, the man's hands were anesthesized, so braille was of no use. His fingertips could not feel the small bumps on the page. But he had found a new way.
He was reading Braille with his tongue. And so to see what that guy overcame when I was wallowing in this pity of how am I going to go back out and survive in Oxford, Mississippi, it seemed like every time I fell into that, I saw something there that gave me a little bit different perspective that pulled me out of that complete self-centeredness. The good thing about the federal prison system is they do want you to not be there. They want you to get out and live a good life. They want you to have a good relationship with your family.
So there was this one day called Kids Day. And the kids were allowed to come into the prison. and there was a cakewalk and there were games set up and the other inmates and guards were dressed up in clown outfits and they were entertaining the kids. And they showed a movie, they showed Free Willie, and one of the inmates said, What the hell are they thinking? Are they showing about a captive killer whale trying to escape captivity?
Showing that to kids whose dads are in prison. I don't think it was intentional, but it was pretty funny.
So the leprosy patients had this huge ballroom where they had their dances and their Modi Gras parades and that sort of thing, and that's where it was. And it was just this. remarkable day where the kids got to come in and see where I spent my time. And as silly as it sounds, it was just one of those absolutely remarkable moments, and they both still remember that. to this day.
But what's really interesting Is in the prison visiting room. They could visit Friday nights, all day Saturday, and all day Sunday. And in this visiting room, there was no TV, there was no telephone, there was no Nintendo, there were no computers. It was just them. Me a playground where we could throw a ball, some vending machines, some tables where we could draw pictures and tell stories.
I listened to what they wanted to do. I answered the questions they had. And I wasn't a bad father before I went there. But I was so busy working trying to build this magazine empire, I would run through the house, pat them on the head and say, we're going to go to Disney World spring break. And so I really kind of learned to reparent in that prison visiting room.
When I got out of prison, I just parented in a real different way. The first thing I did when I moved back to Oxford Was I moved the dining room table out of our house and put a ping pong table in the middle of it. And we just spent hours playing ping pong and goofing around and playing. And I coached their teams. I would go eat lunch with them at their school.
It was really interesting. I was thinking when I moved back to Oxford, all the things that I wanted before were out of my reach. I would never be asked to be on the board of a bank. I'd never be asked to be in charge of people's money. I'd never be asked to be in any political office or any position of importance.
And it occurred to me. Hell, I'm free. I can go eat lunch with my kids. I can coach their teams at three. And so it was a very different way of living for me.
So I spent the next 10 years really trying to be a good father. But I was trying to figure out how am I going to make this work. I can't get a job because I have to check that box. Have you been convicted of a felony? I'm not going to have any resources.
I didn't know what to do.
So I set up a little card table in my kitchen and I called some people who were colleagues and friends and basically said, Look, I lost my freedom. I lost my money. I lost other people's money. But I didn't lose my mind. I'm still creative.
I can still do good work. If you have anything, a press release, a brochure, you name it, I'll do it. I'll never take money up front. If you don't like it, you don't pay for it. And within the first three months of being out, I got three clients and all of them were banks.
who recognized a good deal. I had no overhead. I had no assistants. I had no employees.
So after being convicted of bank fraud, my first clients were banks. And I did work for them and they were happy with it and I started doing their annual reports. And then I started a small magazine for graduating seniors to help them navigate the path to getting into college and financial aid and that caught on and A bunch of big national banks bought into it and That ended up having a circulation within about four years of almost two million copies. And so in very short order. By myself without having an office, I had a Company bigger than the one that was on the coast with 30 employees.
So it was a strange turn of events, but I didn't push to be big, I didn't push for anything to happen. I was focused on doing good quality work. with no expectation of the outcome. Linda told me when I got here that her love for the kids was greater than any of her animosity toward me. That I could come to her house anytime and get them.
She would never call a babysitter. She would call me and see if I wanted them first.
So I ended up having the kids. about half the time. Neither one of us remarried for about five years. We would do Mother's and Father's Day together. We were pretty good co-parents.
A lot of people in our church, we went to the same church, said that they wished their marriage was as good as our divorce. But she went so far in forgiving me, she could have made my life really miserable. And she chose not to and I'll always be very grateful for that. When I got back out, I went to try and apologize to everybody I had hurt, and with the exception of one or two, and there were a lot of people. that had been hurt by the wake of destruction that I had left.
You know, they said, you've done your time. We forgive you. Let's start new.
Some of us started doing business together again. And so it was helpful to me, but I also think it was really therapeutic to the people who got hurt that some reckless guy wasn't going to get away with it again. The truth is, you know, I was 32 when I was sentenced to prison. And bad things had happened and I'd gotten into a little trouble, but I had never truly been held accountable. People had always given me a benefit of the doubt.
In fact, I had been caught on a very much smaller scale kiting checks eight years earlier in Oxford. It was to the tune of like $7,000, and I just paid it immediately. And a woman at the bank said, we're going to have to notify the FBI of this. And I said, okay. And nothing ever came of it.
Nobody ever called, nobody ever said anything. And so, what it told me was that might be illegal, but as long as you pay it. Ultimately, nothing's going to happen. I'm not blaming anybody else, but I just People gave me Breaks over and over and over again. They would say, Oh, he's a good kid.
Let's slap on the wrist.
So, nothing ever really serious in terms of consequences happened to me until. This And this label of ex-con, this label of somebody who'd been convicted of a felony. It took away all the time. all these options for me that did nothing but get me into trouble. And what I was left with was you know, the ability to be kind, to use whatever skills I have to make the world a better place, to be a good father.
to be a good friend.
So it was. It was a gift. in so many ways. There were all sorts of people who helped me, whether they intended to or not. I felt proud to live in a room that offered a century of safety for leprosy patients.
I was honored to take communion in the same sanctuary where society's outcasts asked God to console their suffering. I felt privileged to live and work and play in a place that few had ever seen. And I was grateful I had been imprisoned here. a leprosarium where I could begin to rebuild my life in a different way. And a terrific job on the production by Madison Derricott.
And a special thanks to Neil White, author of in the sanctuary of outcasts. Again, go to Amazon with usual suspects, pick up this terrific book. By the way, he thanked the judge. Last line of the book. for holding him accountable.
and putting him in prison. What character? Neil was a better man A better father and a better friend for everything he'd been through. And of course, always those leprosy patients. would jolt him back to reality.
watching one patient read a Bible with his tongue. That's enough to get anybody out. of bouts with self-pity. Neil White, A Story of Redemption and So Much More. Here.
on our American stories. Hey, what's up? It's Marla Lopez. Back to schools, an exciting time, but it can also be overwhelming, and kids may feel isolated, a vulnerability that human traffickers can exploit. Human trafficking doesn't always look like what you expect.
Everyday moments can become opportunities for someone with bad intentions, whether you're a parent, teacher, coach, or neighbor. Check in. Ask questions. Stay connected. Blue Campaign is a national awareness initiative that provides resources to help recognize suspected instances of human trafficking.
Learn the signs and how to report at dhs.gov/slash blue campaign. Uh Come on, why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient. Still using yesterday's tech? Upgrade to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon, ultra-light, ultra-powerful, and built for serious productivity with Intel Core ultra-processors, blazing speed, and AI-powered performance that keeps up with your business, not the other way around.
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