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And so is the world. But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere. I'm a smah in Washington, DC. I'm Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story.
Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning. Welcome to Today. From back to school to tackling your to-do list, the Today Show is your best start to the day.
It's a new season, and every morning, we're here to help you take it all off. As the forecast calls for football all across the country, Blockbuster stars, live concerts, and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening. We're getting back to all of it, and the best way to start is together. Watch The Today Show, weekday mornings at 7 a.m.
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Our fourth president, James Madison, is often considered a forgotten founder. And that's a shame, as his words have echoed through the ages. After all, he was the man who wrote the sentence quote If men were angels No government would be necessary, unquote. And the Bill of Rights. He's the author of the Bill of Rights, too.
Chances are, he still affects your life today. Here to tell the story of Madison and his partnerships that changed America. is David O. Stewart, author of Madison's Gift. We'd like to thank the National Archives for allowing us access to this audio.
Let's get into the story. He was so central to the nation's founding. more central to the founding of the nation than anyone else other than George Washington. And if you look at the list of his achievements, You get a feel for this, I think. First, of course, is the calling of the Constitutional Convention.
the writing of the Constitution at that convention. the Federalist Papers, which were written to support the ratification of the Constitution. He was the leading member of the first Congress. He wrote the Bill of Rights. and secured their adoption.
I'm only halfway through my list yet. He was co-founder of the first American political party. In the pivotal election of 1800, he was the co-architect of the transfer of government. from the Federalist Party of John Adams to the Thomas Jefferson as leader of the Republicans. It's many times said that the true test of a representative government is if you can have a peaceful transfer of power between contending parties, and we did achieve that in 1800.
That's when we came of age. He was Secretary of State for the Louisiana Purchase, which doubled the size of the nation. He was our first wartime president through the War of 1812, not always a glorious. chapter in our history, but one that was ended successfully enough, I suppose is the best way to say it. And he was perhaps our only two-term president.
who had a better second term than first term. Madison, when he left office, was really acclaimed. He ended up being of all of our presidents, the president for whom the most cities, counties, and municipalities are named. More even than Washington or Franklin.
So we have this tremendous list of achievements. But then There is the undeniable fact that Madison is often ignored. Why? He was short. He was skinny.
He had a soft voice. And in rooms that were filled with noisy people like John Adams. And Alexander Hamilton. Or with large and charismatic men like George Washington. or Thomas Jefferson.
Madison was pretty easy to miss. He was different from most great leaders. We think of great leaders most often as Man who have strong streaks of narcissism. They need to be at the front of the parade. They prefer to be on a white horse.
They crave recognition and acclaim. Madison had none of those qualities. He disliked public events. He never became comfortable at them. At his first inaugural ball, this is the pinnacle of his political career.
He has become President of the United States, a nation he did so much to found. Madison says, Thank you very much, but I would rather be home in bed. He was a man who cared about results, not applause. about making the American experiment in self-government a success. His greatest achievements were really the fruit of partnerships.
It was almost as though he had taken What today would be called a modern personality assessment, the sort of thing organizations like their people to do. turn them into extroverts, introverts, ISGJEs or whatever. And that Madison was able to conclude that he was, in fact, short. And skinny. And he had a soft voice.
And he had zero charisma. But if he was doing an honest self-assessment, he would have noticed some real powerful positives. He was smarter than almost anybody he met. He had a rare appetite for hard work. He had a gift for making contact and connecting with people.
and extraordinary political judgment and foresight.
So why not take those gifts? and marry them to someone else who has the gifts he doesn't have.
Now we don't know. that Madison actually did that. made such an assessment, stared at the mirror for the requisite period of seconds. He was a man who understood the power of partnership. And they were formed with very different people.
Alexander Hamilton. of a very different character. Hamilton was flashy, he was charismatic. He was effectively orphaned at age 13. He came from nothing.
had to make his own way in the world. Madison, by contrast, was a fortunate son. The inheritor of a great estate, the eldest son of a man who owned 5,000 acres of. Land. He never had his own home until he was 43.
He lived with his mom until he was 78. Dolly was very tolerant. But They recognize something in each other when they. First, we met each other as the two youngest men serving in the Confederation Congress. This is in 1783 when we were still operating under the Articles of Confederation.
I think they recognized in each other first Great intelligence. but also a shared impatience. To make the United States a great nation. and a true nation. which in 1783 we really weren't.
There was Much talk. and serious talk. We should simply form three nations. New England and the Middle States and the South would be separate nations, sort of like Europe. maybe even a fourth nation on the other side of the Appalachian Mountains.
Hamilton, who took a backseat to nobody for impatience, had first decreed the need to have a national convention to rewrite the Articles of Confederation before the Articles had even been adopted. But Madison came along after a couple of years and agreed with him that that was the only practical way. to deal with the problems that the country was having. They collaborated in a campaign to call the Constitutional Convention in the summer of 1787, and then they collaborated again, most importantly, in the campaign to ratify the Constitution. We often forget.
what a close struggle that was. They jointly wrote the Federalist Papers. wrote them as a propaganda piece. But they've Endured as really the finest writing about political philosophy that any Americans have ever produced. And then they went out.
as practical politicians, and each won ratification in their conventions. Madison in Virginia and Hamilton in New York. The second partner is of course George Washington. He was the great man of America. He had won the Revolutionary War.
There's a wonderful. Anecdote that when King George III heard that Washington, after winning the war, had resigned his commission and gone back to be a farmer at Mount Vernon. The king had said, if that's true, he's the greatest man in the world. And Washington had won extraordinary trust of every American. He was the Trump card of American politics.
Madison could see that, and he could see that if he was an ally of George Washington, the things he wanted to get done could get done better. Washington was the indispensable man.
So Madison made himself the indispensable man to the indispensable man. When Washington wanted legislation through the Virginia Assembly, Madison would make it happen. He would be the leader. If he needed legislation through Congress, the Confederation Congress, Madison would make that happen too. And over a period of five years, Madison became Washington's closest political confidant.
He spent days at Mount Vernon just closeted. with the general. Washington's diary, and he always kept a diary his whole life, would simply say, spent today in conversation with Mr. Madison. You need During the first Congress, Madison is often referred to as having served as Washington's prime minister.
Their most important achievement, most durable achievement, I think, was the Bill of Rights. There's a wonderful moment in Washington's first administration when he's just coming to office. He needs an inaugural address, so he asks Madison to write him an inaugural address, which is done and it asks for only one thing. A Bill of Rights, constitutional amendments to protect individual rights. Congress wants to write an answer.
to Washington as a gesture of respect, so they asked Madison to write the answer.
Well, Washington's a little flustered, so he wants to write a courteous reply, so he asks Madison to write the reply. The early government was in many ways a conversation among Madison. But the Bill of Rights comes the closest to being Madison's solo achievement. He wrote them. He got them through Congress.
He made it happen. But he also made it happen. with Washington's essential support. When we come back, more of the life of James Madison here. on Our American Stories.
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Bring a bowl. X boom. America is changing. And so is the world. But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval.
It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere. I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. I'm Tristan Redman in London, and this is the global story. Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
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safely. Guardian bikes, built for your kid and for the memories you'll never forget. And we return to our American stories and the story of James Madison. and the partnerships he forged. that changed America.
Let's return to the story here again. is David O. Stewart.
Now, the third figure is Thomas Jefferson. His soulmate. They came from the same background. They grew up 30 miles apart. both from the same background.
Jefferson inherited his 3,000 acres when he was 14, not when he was 49. That was their biggest difference. They were both bookworms, both interested in everything, both knew something about almost everything. Their correspondence to each other is a delight. They write about everything.
science, philosophy. animals, crops, and politics. Jefferson was more the visionary. He was not Good on details. Madison had a very analytical mind and was extremely good at that sort of thing.
And Jefferson adopted a practice through his career of when he would have. an interesting idea that excited him, He would first run it by Madison. And Madison was not shy about saying, Usually in a very polite way. That's a wonderful idea, but have you thought about these nine problems with it? And Jefferson would take his advice.
They both became very disenchanted with Hamilton's financial system. This is the great Switch. Madison enters Congress as George Washington's prime minister. But after a year and then some, he discovers that the Secretary of the Treasury has a financial program that he can't support. And so Madison goes into opposition with Jefferson.
In order to oppose the Hamiltonian policy, which they found unduly centralized the government, they thought it introduced financial instability. We had a number of financial panics under the Hamiltonian system. They had to create a political vehicle. for this opposition and although they both despised partisan politics, they created our first political party. I think they would both be appalled to be remembered for it.
But they did it. They did it very assiduously and very well. dominated American politics for the next six decades.
Now Monroe was a bit of a revelation to me. I had not studied him much. I was really discouraged at first to discover just how many people. Who were his contemporaries and felt it necessary to recall, just he really was a little dim. This was not what I was looking for.
Um He was a military type. He had been a soldier as a very young man in the Revolution. He always had a military bearing. He was a strapping six-footer, charismatic. not an intellectual.
His letters with Madison are friendly, they're warm, they're collegial. He was a very canny politician. But We don't get a lot of political philosophy. This is not what James Monroe did. They were Sometimes rivals.
Indeed, they ran against each other in the first election for Congress in 1789. They are the only. future presidents whoever opposed each other for a lower office. There was a bit of gerrymandering Patrick Henry had actually set it up so Madison would have to run against Monroe. Henry had a real vendetta against Madison and was hoping to get him beaten.
Madison won fairly handily. But then nearly 20 years later, And Madison is a candidate for President, Monroe stands as a candidate against him. and actually is on the ballot. Yeah. He's not a serious candidate.
But it was a measure that they had had a serious falling out. After many years of close relationship. And indeed, they didn't speak. for two years or have any contact at all. But Madison reached a point As president in his first administration, when he thought it was essential that the United States go to war with Britain.
Britain had been seizing our ships at sea for years. They had been taking our sailors and pressing them into the British Navy. And Madison simply thought for our own self-esteem, for our own respectability as a nation, we could no longer just take it. But Madison was not a man anybody would think of as a military sort. He needed somebody to put a little steel into his administration.
And Monroe was the perfect character. He had great experience in Europe as well and credibility as a diplomat. He had negotiated the Louisiana Purchase.
So he reached out to Monroe. They were able to patch up their differences. He brought Monroe into his administration as Secretary of State. where he was An essential pillar of the government through the war. In fact, For periods of the war, he served as both Secretary of State and Secretary of War simultaneously.
A fairly neat trick.
Now his final partner is the one I want to talk about most and in many ways the most interesting one. And that's Dolly, of course, his wife of 42 years. She was the star. Madison would never be the star. It just wasn't in his skill set.
She brought charisma and warmth. Great charm.
Well, Madison hated the spotlight. Dolly bloomed in the spotlight. She loved it. She was a natural. Shit.
Started out in life as Dolly Payne. And like James, she grew up on a southern plantation. Although it was a significant difference. She was raised a Quaker. On instructions for the Quaker hierarchy.
When she was a young teenager, her father sold the family slaves. and moved to Philadelphia and tried to start a business there. His business failed. But Dolly flourished. She was tall for the time.
She had an hourglass figure, a mischievous smile. You could sometimes see it in her images, almost all of them. Black hair, creamy complexion, blue eyes. Men liked her a lot. And I always like to point out that say what you will about James Madison's small stature, his receding hairline, his social reserve, and awkwardness.
Of all the founders, he had the hottest wife.
Okay. Dolly married a Quaker lawyer. She had a first marriage. and had two sons with him. But her husband and one son died in a yellow fever epidemic in 1793.
As a single mother she was in great demand. She did not want for suitors at all. But one of the most ardent was James Madison. And the story is that he saw her either on the street or at some social event. and essentially said, who is that woman?
And learned who she was and arranged for his, discovered that his good friend from college. Aaron Burr was renting a room from her mother.
So he arranged for Aaron Burr to introduce them. And He was seventeen years older. That was not viewed as a great obstacle in those days. I'm not sure it is today either. And On the occasion of that first meeting, I love the note that Dolly sent to a friend that afternoon, which reveals both her playful nature and her sophistication.
because she writes to her friend that she is going to meet the great little Madison. She really captures him. Because of course he is short, he's balding. but he also was great. He was wealthy, he was kind, he was intelligent.
In a Jane Austen era, when The match you made. was so important for a woman's life. You could do a great deal worse than James Madison. And you've been listening to David O. Stewart, author of Madison's Gift.
telling one heck of a story. About James Madison. And my goodness, that partnership between Jefferson and Madison. And by the way, they were soulmates. They grew up the same way, very close to one another.
I went to the University of Virginia's School of Law. And Jefferson's home, there it is up in Monticello on the hill. Madison's home not much farther away. And there they were together forming America's first political party. Because of their opposition to Hamilton's financial vision for America.
and that centralization it required. thus formed the Republican Party, and thus formed the next chapter in Madison's life. More of the story of James Madison. Here. on our American stories.
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Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain-resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high-resilience foam lets you choose between a sink-in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus, our pet-friendly stain-resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price.
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Bring a bowl. X boom. America is changing. And so is the world. But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval.
It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere. I'm a smah in Washington, D.C. I'm Tristan Redman in London and this is the global story. Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
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And because Guardian bikes are designed and assembled right here in the USA, you know they're built to last. with care in every detail. Their patented sure stop braking system stops both wheels with a single lever, helping your child stop safely without tripping forward or losing control. Right now, save hundreds when comparing Guardian to its competitors at GuardianBikes.com and get a free log and pump when you join their newsletter of $50 value. Visit GuardianBikes.com today to save and help your child learn an essential life skill.
safely. Guardian bikes, built for your kid and for the memories you'll never forget. And we return to our American stories and the final portion of our story on James Madison. and the partnerships he forged with others. It changed this country.
When we last left off, David O. Stewart was telling us the story of Madison's most important partnership. one he had with his vivacious wife, Dollar. Let's return to the story. You know, the political philosophers have sort of drained the life out of them to some extent.
It could be flirtatious. His few letters to Dolly, they were very rarely apart, but he did write some letters to her. They're warm and loving. long after the first infatuation would have cooled. Although the Madisons never had children of their own and are sometimes imagined as this semi-sad, childless couple.
They had dozens of nieces and nephews. Upwards of fifty as near as I can tell. And they were often with them for weeks on end, sometimes months. And Dolly would always see that the young ladies were introduced to suitable potential matches. It's also often missed that the Madisons were a lot of fun.
In small groups, James was quick with a quip and humorous anecdote. Dolly was always vivacious and engaging. A niece called her a foe to dullness. One of the Entertaining stories is apparently Dolly and James would run races against each other. It was in their retirement, so they weren't looking for a long racetrack.
But it gives you a feel for the spirit they had with each other. Indeed, there is an account that in retirement Dolly, who was always a bit taller than James and became a good bit. wider than James. would load him on her back and carry him around the mansion. But I want to emphasize that Their fun had a purpose.
Through James's eight years as Secretary of State and eight as President, Dolly set a bright social tone. She always sought out the most awkward, uncomfortable person in the room to put him or her at their ease. She understood the need to provide glamour and charisma to the government, which, again, was not something James could do. She was called at the time sometimes the Lady Presidentess. We didn't use the term first lady yet.
She had a famous exchange with Henry Claige, which may have been apocryphal when he was a good friend of hers. Played cards together, they took snuff together. And he is reported once to have said, Everyone loves Mrs. Madison, and she, of course, responded. That's because Mrs.
Madison loves everybody. And it wasn't strictly speaking true. She actually was better at keeping a grudge than James was. But it seemed to be true. And as we know in politics, that's far more important than what is true.
The Madisons freely mixed foreigners and Federalists and Republicans, producing a social swirl. It allowed the sinews of policy and politics to form In an informal setting, sometimes that's a terribly valuable opportunity. Office seekers would come to Dali and ask her to intercede with the President. to get jobs. And as near as we can tell, she was pretty good at it.
In fact, She really was a political partner. always a loyal and sure-footed one, who not only warmed his private life, but also helped them forge a new republican style for the nation. Indeed, the losing Federalist candidate in 1808 claimed that he had lost to Mr. and Mrs. Madison.
I might have had a better chance had I faced Mr. Madison alone.
Now, many of you will recall Dolly's shining moment during the War of 1812, which came actually. on James's worst day. probably of his entire career. In late August of 1814, the British Army had been disembarked. from ships in the Chesapeake Bay.
marched on Washington. There was a very brief skirmish at Bladensburg, sometimes referred to at the time as the Bladensburg Races, because our militia ran so quickly. Madison had actually gone to the battlefield to try to rally the troops and inspire them, but it just, as I said, was not something he was going to be able to do, and the militia wasn't really going to ever be inspired anyway.
So the British marched into Washington and they burned the public buildings. But There was a shining moment. which is right before the British got there. Dolly remembered to take down the portrait of George Washington. We were a republic.
We were not. A monarchy. We didn't have crown jewels, but We did cherish the memory of George Washington. And this was a presence of mind, a spirit. which was much valued through the country.
James Madison was reviled by many of his countrymen after. the burning of Washington's public buildings. He was called a coward. repeatedly. But people kept a warm spot in their hearts for Dolly.
Now Their retirement. at Montpelier. was generally a happy one. James lived for almost 20 years in retirement. He lived to be 85.
From a fellow who was sick much of his life, it was a surprise to him. In his final years, James became increasingly decrepit. He spent his days in his dressing gown and nightcap. But his mind remained bright, his intellect sharp. These years were hard on Dolly.
She had to take care of them all the time. She wrote once that his hands and fingers are still so swelled and sore as to be nearly useless, but I lend him mine. He could always be happy with ideas, or at least occupied with ideas in newspapers and books. She needed people. And it was hard for her.
to be isolated without them. When he died in 1836 at the age of 85, she moved back to Washington City. And she re-entered the social world, and she lived long enough to have her photograph taken. In the Zachary Taylor administration. Her re-entry into Washington's social life was greatly applauded, she had a wonderful time for a few years, but then the money ran out.
She had many gifts, but thrift was not among them. Financial management was not among them. She had her own son, Madison's stepson, who was a bit of a wastrel. burned up a lot of money too. She ended up in a sort of genteel poverty.
with only a couple of slaves who were sold upon her death.
Now, having held forth on two of Madison's productive partnerships. or just one of them actually. I want to close with a note about Madison himself. I do think he was able to form these partnerships because of who he was. He was not the dry creature of intellect that we sometimes think of.
He was referred to by a contemporary as: I've never seen so much mind and so little matter. Um But he had a genuineness and an integrity and open-heartedness. These qualities for me shine through in the way he received the news of the Treaty of Ghent. which is the agreement that ended the War of 1812. As I said, he pushed the nation into war.
And it didn't go terribly well much of the time. It's February 13, 1815. He's actually living in Octagon House, which still stands over on 17th Street. A rumor arrives that the treaty has been signed with Britain. And a Pennsylvania senator rushes to Octagon House to ask Madison if it's true.
The Senator found the House dark. The President's sitting solitary in his parlor. in perfect tranquility. Not even a servant in waiting. The senator asked if the rumor was true.
Madison bade him sit down. I will tell you all I know, he said. Then confirmed. that he thought there was peace, but he had no official confirmation. The Senator recalled with some wonder.
But he called the President's self-command on the occasion. and greatness of mind. The War of 1812 had been Mr. Madison's war. as his opponents called it.
It was about principles, not gain. It was fought with a quiet tenacity.
sometimes ineptly. and with endless tolerance. of those who opposed it. As a friend of Madison's wrote years later, the war had been conducted in perfect keeping with the character of the President. Of whom it may be said that no one had to a greater extent.
firmness. mildness, and self-possession. And when peace came, Madison welcomed it. in a darkened house. along with his thoughts.
And a special thanks to David O. Stewart.
Author of Madison's Gift. and to the U.S. National Archives for allowing us access to to this speech he gave there. And we love doing this. We love taking speeches made.
in the citadels of learning here in America. and bringing him to the wider public. And my goodness, the story you heard about all of these partnerships. Starting with Hamilton, Moving to Jefferson. Then to Monroe.
And then that last partnership. Dowly. And my goodness, what storytelling. I can just picture in my mind this playful, beautiful woman. hauling her husband On her back, because she was bigger than him, and just running around just for some levity.
just for some fun. She brought elegance and style and fun. to the administration things her husband lacked. but things she had, attributes she had in bounty. And when her husband died, She was lonely and reintroduced herself.
to greater society. and had the foresight to save that magnificent portrait of Washington. as the British were sacking and burning. Washington, D.C. The story of James Madison In the end, the story of the nation's founding Here.
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This is Danielle Fischel from Pod Meets World. Parents, quick question. When is the last time you won snack time? The other day, I handed my son a perfectly portioned Pinterest-level snack and And he traded it for a Mott's applesauce pouch. I'm not mad, just impressed.
And that's why Mott's no-sugar-added applesauce pouches are perfect to keep on hand. They're made with real apples, packed in a super easy pouch, perfect for tossing in a lunchbox, keeping in the car, or grabbing as you're running out the door. Plus, they're a good source of vitamin C, and kids love them. Win-win! Make sure your kid wins snack time with Motts.
Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn more at Motts.com. This is an iHeart podcast.
