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America is changing. And so is the world. But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere. I'm a smachhalid in Washington, D.C.
I'm Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story. Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts. A new NFL season means a fresh start. and fresh styles.
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Take a deep dive into the stories making the news headlines across the world. The News Agents. We're not just here to tell you what's happening, but why. From me, Emily Maitless. And me, John Sopol.
With Global's award-winning podcast, the News Agents dropping daily, covering everything you need to know about politics and current affairs. And the News Agents USA. Listening to the news agents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search the news agents to start listening. This is Lee Habib, and this is Our American Stories, the show where America is the star.
and the American people. Up next, a story about two men. that changed American history. The men? Slavery Firebrand John C.
Calhoun. and the son of our second president, John Quincy Adams. Here to tell the story is James Traub. Author of John Quincy Adams, Militant Spirit. Dr.
Robert Elder, author of John C. Calhoun, American heretic. Let's get into the story. Take it away, Robert. Calhoun comes onto the political scene during the War of 1812.
He's one of the small group of congressmen who really. Pushed the war legislatively and were responsible for keeping the war effort together. And so he's instantly a sort of national figure, and he goes into James Monroe's cabinet as Secretary of War, and that's where he meets John Quincy Adams. His father was a man who lived in the nation. His father was one of the leaders of the forces that ultimately rebelled against the British.
The lullabies with which his mother would rock him to sleep glorified poems from the Irish rebellion against the British glorified sacrifice in the name of patriotism and principle. And Pretty instantly, what they recognize in each other is they're both very intelligent, very smart. John Quincy Adams writes in his diary about Calhoun and says, I like this guy. He's independent. He expresses his arguments really well.
He's smart. He was the only person in Monroe's cabinet who Adams regarded as an equal. He was a much younger man than Adams. She And it is during the Missouri crisis. There is this amazing meeting that they have.
This is the first time when the United States faces the problem of admitting new states as to whether they will be slave or free. And they had a debate. And afterwards, Adams and Calhoun walk away and talk. great length, and Adams writes in his diary afterwards. He describes his long walk and the conversation he had with Calhoun.
Adams says they talked so long that Calhoun missed his dinner, and Adams expresses his view that slavery should not expand beyond where it was, and that the Declaration of Independence should actually be policy. even if it couldn't be fully realized right away. And Calhouns found Appalling and also probably illogical.
So you have to understand that in the South we think about this very differently. Those ideals are very admirable, but we never in our wildest imagination thought that Thomas Jefferson's words in the Declaration applied to slaves. We wouldn't have joined the union if we thought it did. And Calhoun says that, and this alarms Adams, I think, even more. Calhoun says: if slavery is threatened, then the South will secede and ally itself with Great Britain.
The United States had just finished fighting a war with Britain a few years earlier. And so this is an incredibly shocking admission. And Adams, when he finally gets back to his own house, Adams says, This conversation has set off this incredible chain of thinking for me about the future of the Union. And he says. that he had never understood until then.
How slavery corrupts the master. as well as debasing slave, That for him to listen to Calhoun made him think that this thing. was a disease that was eating away at the vitals of the Republic.
So that thought was there. And then it went away. The issue didn't. present itself. Bennett did.
This was the great drama. of his later years. This conversation that they have is the beginning of a rift between Adams and Calhoun. Not immediately. I mean, he goes on to become Adams' vice president, of course, but John Quincy Adams returns to the House of Representatives, which is kind of remarkable for an ex-president to do.
And he becomes the foremost anti-slavery politician in the antebellum era. He would be putting himself into a solitary position. Most northern men We were quite happy to let the issue go away. And Adams, that fact. didn't trouble him in the least.
He became the go-to guy for petitions. Because once the South succeeded, in passing a rule that said Then Petitions on slavery cannot be presented to the House. Other members took that as a settled question. Adams knew he had no chance of winning. The gag order, so-called, would always be passed, but Adams would fight it tooth and nail.
He would find some sly way of presenting a petition as if it were not about slavery, when in fact it was, and when that became clear, there would be an uproar and a hubbub in 1843. they move to have him censured. And He beat them. He defeated the censure motion. And Adams defends the homicide captives successfully.
It was an illegal slave ship because slavery had been the slave trade. had been eliminated as of 1817. These were slaves who had been taken from West Africa, brought to Cuba, where slavery still existed, rebranded. as Cuban slaves, as Cubans. and then sent to the south.
The slaves mutineed and then they told the captain who was still around to let to steer them to Africa, which he didn't do. And instead he actually wound up steering them to Long Island, where the ship was sighted and taken. Then a very complicated set of court cases ensued. Adams learned about this, wrote to the anti-slavery people who were funding the defense of the slaves. And then they came to him.
case had gotten to the Supreme Court. And Adams, who hadn't appeared before the Supreme Court in 30 years, threw himself into this. And it was a very complicated case because the slaves were, from the point of view of slave owners, they were not people, they were things, they were merchandise. And even though... It was clear and admitted.
that they had been brought there illegally. They were still being claimed as merchandise and the owners of the ship wanted to be compensated. If the slaves were going to be free, they were going to be compensated. And they kept insisting that the slaves really were chattel. And so Adams immersed himself in the Precedent.
of the case.
Now, today, when you argue a case before the Supreme Court, You start speaking, and after 10 words, one of the justices interrupts you. It didn't work like that in those days. The justices didn't ask questions. You stood up and you presented the case. Adams presented a nine-hour case.
over the course of two days. about the facts. and about the law. and about the history.
So here he was. A 73-year-old figure. The last whiving wink. To the Founding Fathers, a president. and the son of a president.
And so he addressed the justices. As an equal, and perhaps in certain respects almost a superior of theirs. And so maybe I'll just read the very end because it's you get a feeling of his language. He spoke of all of the figures whom he had known as a young man, And he said, where are they all? Gone.
Gone, all gone. gone from the services which in their day and generation they faithfully rendered to their country. And now he's standing in the well of the Supreme Court and their tears. pouring down his face. There's a gallery that's sitting there in dead silence.
And he says From the excellent characters which they sustained in life, so far as I have had the means of knowing, I humbly hope and fondly trust that they have gone to receive the rewards of blessedness on high. In taking, then, My final weave of this bar and of this honourable court, I can only ejaculate a fervent petition to heaven, that every member of it may go to his final account. with as little. of earthly frailty to answer for as those illustrious did. and that you may, every one, After the close of a long and virtuous career in this world, Be received at the portals of the next.
with the approving sentence.
Well done. good and faithful servant. Enter that. into the joy of thy Lord. That's how he ended.
And This Court. virtually all of whose members were slave owners. ruled Unanimously. for the Amistad slaves. It was the greatest victory.
Of the anti-slavery movement. It was galvanizing. It was an astonishing and thrilling moment. And imagine that meeting, both are serving in Monroe's cabinet, Mr. Anti-Slavery.
And Mr. Pro-Slavery, North and South, having that conversation. And what does Adams walk away with? Such a profound insight. Slavery doesn't just debase the slave.
It corrupts the master. And boy did it. With John C. Calhoun. The story of a conversation that changed John Quincy Adams' life.
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Authors are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. America is changing. And so is the world. But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.
I'm a smah in Washington, DC. I'm Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story. Every weekday will bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. A new NFL season means a fresh start.
and fresh styles. At NFLShop.com, you'll find the latest jerseys, hats, and sideline gear to rep your team all season long. from rookies making their debut to legends. NFLshop.com has it all. Score exclusive styles you won't find anywhere else, and show up ready for every kickoff and big play.
Fan Like a Pro and shop now at NFLShop.com. Take a deep dive into the stories making the news headlines across the world. The News Agents. We're not just here to tell you what's happening, but why. From me, Emily Maitlis.
And me, John Sopal. With Global's award-winning podcast, The News Agents dropping daily, covering everything you need to know about politics and current affairs. And the News Agents USA. Listening to the news agents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search the news agents to start listening.
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