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We've all done it. You see a headline but don't have time to read the whole story, or there's so much news you're not sure what is worth your time. I'm Colby Ekowitz, co-host of Post Reports, the weekday afternoon podcast from The Washington Post. Post Reports brings you what's relevant and revealing, breaking stories, politics, wellness, culture. Each episode goes beyond a headline for the context you need.
Find Post Reports now, wherever you're listening. And we return to our American stories. Charles Carroll might be the most overlooked signer of the Declaration of Independence. A devout Catholic, he overcame religious prejudice and the difficulties of establishing a new nation, and in doing so became one of the most respected and wealthiest men in colonial America. Here to tell the story of this forgotten founder is professor of history at Hillsdale College, Dr. Bradley Burzer. He's also the author of American Cicero, The Life of Charles Carroll.
Let's get into the story. Charles Carroll is definitely one of the more forgotten founding fathers, and I think that's unfortunate because there's so much about his story that really tells us a lot about the greater understanding of America. Charles Carroll of Carrollton, if for no other reason, he's the only one who signs his name with an aristocratic feel to it, right, of Carrollton at the end of it, but he's the only Roman Catholic signer of the Declaration, and I think that that speaks volumes about the nature of American Christianity at the time of the founding.
Certainly there were very few Roman Catholics at all, and those that did exist were distrusted by the larger population, which, understandably, we know that almost all of the Englishmen who settled in the North American colonies were coming out of the English Reformation itself, and so they had a very deep connection to Reformational theology, and they hadn't met that many Catholics because the Reformation in England was really about those who were somewhat pro-Catholic without wanting a pope and those who wanted to purify the Church of its Catholicism, that is, the Puritans. So there weren't really Catholics that were still coming along, but there were images of Catholics that still existed, kind of shadows of Catholics, if you will, and so Catholicism could still be seen as a kind of boogeyman because of all of these people coming out of the Reformation, and so Charles Carroll of Carrollton really had to ride through that distrust. He had to overcome it, and he had to prove himself in some way, and he does in actually a variety of ways, but there were certainly a number of things that we can think about with Charles Carroll that made him important. Not only was he the only Roman Catholic signer of the Declaration, but he was one of the founders of the Maryland Constitution, and in particular, Maryland's Senate that he designed was seen as the model for the American Senate. So in Federalist Paper Number 63, you have Madison saying, our model for the U.S. Senate is the Maryland Senate, which means that Charles Carroll was really the fountainhead, the touchstone beyond all of that. So yeah, there are a lot of things that we can think about that when we think about Charles Carroll that he contributed to America. Even parts of Washington, D.C. sit on land that was formerly his.
There's at least the one stop, the Metro stop, Carrollton, and a lot of that property was Charles Carroll's. Charles Carroll, because he was a Catholic, always had a disadvantage when it came to his relations with the other founders, and my favorite is always John Adams. John Adams loved Charles Carroll, but every time Charles Carroll walked into a room, Adams would record it in his diary, but it would always be that papist Charles Carroll has just walked into the room, that papist has signed the Declaration of Independence, and I don't think it's meant to be a jab.
It's just a descriptive. He was that papist. It was always this marker that is Charles Carroll could never just be Charles Carroll. He was always Charles Carroll the papist. I do think George Washington didn't see him that way. I think George Washington, who had relied on Carroll, relied on his money, saw him as a close ally. We know that Thomas Jefferson greatly respected Carroll and used him for all kinds of financial advice.
They had a very close friendship. Alexander Hamilton really liked Carroll as well. In fact, Hamilton was trying to get Carroll to run for the presidency in 1796, when George Washington would have completed his two terms, and that's pretty shocking. To imagine even the possibility of a Catholic president as early as our second president in the United States.
Not possible, of course. But pretty amazing that Hamilton thought that highly of him. So yeah, Carroll was really well respected at the time. Starting in 1774, a number of what we might call proper governmental institutions began to fall apart. And we can see this through the Intolerable and the Coercive Acts that were being passed by Britain. Britain was really putting the restraints on the American colonies. And one reaction of the American colonies was simply to create what they called extralegal governments.
That is, they would create committees or they would create their own legislatures. And so one of my favorite stories of these is Maryland. Maryland has what was called the first convention in Annapolis. And basically, this was in 1774, a number of people get together.
These are men who feel like they've not been able to express their wishes in the legitimate Maryland assembly. So they meet as a group and they begin having political discussions. And it's pretty clear by the end of the first convention that this is the legitimate Maryland government.
And so they meet again and they meet again and they meet again. And Governor Eden realizes after a certain amount of time that there's no sense in him dealing with the actual legislature because all the real power is in these conventions. And Charles Carroll was very much a part of that, creating again what we might call extralegal government.
And yet, if we think about it in the larger scheme of things, it's not that surprising. The first Continental Congress is an extralegal government. The second Continental Congress is an extralegal government. The Constitutional Convention is an extralegal government. These were all in some ways not quite legitimate, but not illegitimate either.
And they become legitimate merely by the great weight that they carry into the communities. One of my favorite stories with Maryland is they finally decided that they didn't need Governor Eden any longer. And so Governor Eden was trying to govern from his ship out in the harbor in Annapolis, and he would send men in with notes, and the notes would be taken back to him and he would try to run the government this way. And finally, the Convention of Annapolis just sends Eden about six to eight weeks' worth of food and tells him that his services are done and that they thank him for it. But it's time for him to go back to Britain.
They no longer have use of him. And again, that's just shocking to think about how these governments worked. Now, those could become dangerous as well because you can imagine in these conventions, and many, many states had them, you always had a synthesis of monarchical and aristocratic and democratic powers all at once.
There was no real separation of government. So Charles Carroll was not only famous for promoting the conventions at the beginning, but then he became equally famous in 1776 when he published a series of letters under the name CX, and he said it's now very much time for us to write proper constitutions and for us to get rid of these constitutional conventions because we now run the risk of them becoming tyrannical, replacing what was tyrannical. And you've been listening to Dr. Bradley Burzer, professor of history at Hillsdale College, telling the story of Charles Carroll, who may be the most overlooked signer of the Declaration of Independence and the only Catholic signer. Christianity at the time, by the way, in America, as Dr. Burzer pointed out, was mostly filled with folks from the Reformation movement of England. And of course, that left Catholics out for the most part, and they were seen with a level of distrust in America and discrimination. And it's a point of Carroll's character. He was able to win over the trust of so many in the colonies.
When we come back, more of this remarkable story, the story of Charles Carroll and also the story of religion in America and Christianity in early America here on Our American Stories. . There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Anibé sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. Anibé has designed the only fully machine washable sofa from top to bottom. The stain-resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud-like frame duvet can go straight into your wash, perfect for anyone with kids, pets, or anyone who loves an easy-to-clean, spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, love seat, or a luxuriously large sectional, Anibé has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Sofas start at just $699, and right now, you can shop up to 60% off store-wide with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com. Add a little... to your life.
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Follow Formula E. Live on Roku. Next race, Miami, April 12th. Hey, it's Amy Brown from The Bobby Bones Show. Join me in supporting St. Jude Children's Research Hospital for a chance to win a trip to meet Meghan Maroney at the 2025 iHeart Country Festival in Austin, Texas, on May 3rd, hosted by Bobby Bones. We're going to hook you up with tickets, flights, hotel, food credits, and a meet-and-greet with Meghan Maroney. Take action now to support St. Jude and help cure childhood cancer, and you're going to be entered for a chance to win. Visit iHeartCountryTrip.com to learn more.
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Find impromptu wherever you get your podcasts. And we return to Our American Stories and with the story of Charles Carroll, the only Catholic to sign the Declaration of Independence. Here again, it's professor of history at Hillsdale College and the author of American Cicero, Dr. Bradley Burson. So Charles Carroll, because he was Catholic, could not be raised properly by his family in Maryland. It was illegal to raise your children in a quote unquote Catholic fashion. And if you attempted to, your child will be taken away from you and sent to a Protestant family in England.
It was one of the most draconian laws in colonial America. So at the age of 11, Charles Carroll was sent to France to be educated by Jesuits. And he ends up going over to France for 17 years, along with his cousin John Carroll, whom I mentioned earlier, will become the first archbishop in North America. Charlie and Jackie, as they were known. And so Charlie and Jackie went over to France again for 17 years. They earned the equivalent, at least Charles did, he earned the equivalent of an M.A.
in platonic philosophy. And then he went on and got law degrees as well. So he's actually among the American founders by the way that we would mark what degrees have been earned. He's actually one of the highest degree earning Americans among the founders because of his M.A.
and then his law degrees. But he loved of all the people that he studied in the Western tradition. And he studied everyone from Socrates to Plato to Aristotle to Cicero to St. Augustine to Thomas Aquinas to Sir Thomas More. Of all the figures that he had studied, he loved Cicero. And so Cicero was always right there for him in everything he did. Cicero, not only as a model of statesmanship, but as a model of the intellect as well. And so I took the title American Cicero from one of the last statements that Charles Carroll made.
He was asked, because he was in his 90s, if he felt lonely because he was the last of the signers to be alive. And he said, well, no, I've got my two best friends. I have Jesus and I have Cicero.
I talk to them always and they talk to me. And so I love that idea of Charles Carroll being this great Western figure, being completely in line with the liberal arts tradition of the West and being very Ciceronian. I think there are probably other founders. I think of someone like Nathan Hale who actually gave his life for the founding. That may qualify more as an American Cicero, but I still think that Charles Carroll has at least some claim to the title. Another thing about Charles Carroll that people have found fascinating is his wealth. He was extremely wealthy. Some people argue that he was the single wealthiest man in North America along with his father. His father will pass away in 1782. But prior to that, his father was also Charles Carroll, but he was Charles Carroll of Annapolis rather than Charles Carroll of Carrollton.
They made a formidable team. And one of the interesting things about all of this is that Maryland forbade Catholics from participating in politics or participating in law. So as a Roman Catholic, I would not be allowed into a law court to represent myself, even to speak for myself.
I certainly would not have been let into a political body at all. But the one thing that Catholics could do was they could own property. And you find the same story with Judaism during the Middle Ages that you find with Catholicism in Maryland. The Catholics absolutely took advantage of being able to own property. And so they bought and they sold property. They served as banks for other property owners. So this one restriction that didn't exist on them, they took to the fullest advantage.
And again, the same thing that Jews did during the Middle Ages when they were forbidden from being a part of usury and so forth. They used this to their economic advantage. So Charles Carroll and his father were immensely wealthy on the eve of the American Revolution. And Carroll spends a lot of his money on the American founding, supporting the American founding, supporting George Washington. And he loses a lot of his property during the founding as well.
So he really puts his money on the line in all of this. Charles Carroll represents something unusual. He represents a lone Catholic or one of two or three Catholics in a Protestant world. But one of the things that Charles Carroll loved to remind his fellow compatriots of was that when they talked of natural law, when they talked of natural rights, when they talked of the Magna Carta, when they talked of common law, they were really all talking about Catholic history. That is, the Magna Carta, the greatest document, political document, signed in the Middle Ages was an absolutely Roman Catholic document. And so by the time we get to the Protestants of the American Revolution, these Protestants see themselves as really having a heritage of liberty. But as Carroll reminded us, that heritage is one that they inherited from the Catholics. And so I think that's a great reminder for all of us that when we think about those things that mean so much to us as Americans, again, natural rights, natural law, common law, all of these things, these are deeply rooted in our Catholic European past.
And there's just no way to get around that at all. In 1826, July 4th of 1826, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams passed away, which seemed miraculous to Americans that they would die within hours of each other on the 50th anniversary of the Declaration. I mentioned, too, that Charles Carroll lives on until November 14th of 1832.
During that time, he got to meet Alexis de Tocqueville. I love that, that de Tocqueville was here on his big trip and interviewed Charles Carroll as one of his great subjects for democracy in America. But I also love that when Charles Carroll died, there were two newspaper headlines that went out across the United States. One is the last of the Romans has passed into eternity, and the other was a great man in Israel is dead.
And I love that idea that somehow Charles Carroll was both a Jewish prophet and a Roman demigod in some way. To me, that perfectly sums up his life and what he gave to the American experiment. And a terrific job on the production, editing, and storytelling by our own Gavin Leistro, who is himself a Hillsdale College student. And also a special thanks to Dr. Bradley Berzer, Professor of History at Hillsdale College. And we tell lots of stories thanks to Hillsdale College.
They're proud sponsors of this show, and we couldn't do it without them. Go to hillsdale.edu to take all of their terrific and free online courses. Their storytelling is remarkable. They're teaching even better. Learn about all the good and beautiful things in life in American history, economics, and so much more.
Go to hillsdale.edu. And what a story. The fact that Charles Carroll, well, it was illegal for him to be raised as a Catholic, so he was sent off to be educated in Paris by Jesuits for 17 years. And as a citizen, couldn't be a member of the bar or be in politics. But, crafty as he was, he learned how to amass great wealth and how to use that wealth to fund the American Revolution and to be a central part of America's ideas and intellectual history and in the founding and formation of our government.
The story of Charles Carroll, the only Catholic signer of the Declaration of Independence, here on Our American Stories. Music Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? Wash away your worries with Anibay. Anibay is the only machine washable sofa inside and out, where designer quality meets budget-friendly prices. That's right, sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no-risk experience with pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabric. Experience cloud-like comfort with high-resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing.
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