Certainty in Uncertain Times

We'll be right back. Well, every now and then, it's nice to get a pep talk to buoy our spirits, and Sharon Epps is just the person to do it. She's president of Kingdom Advisors, and she's here to help us deal with these uncertain economic times. Sharon, great to have you back.

Thank you. Sharon, I know you've been doing some research about uncertainty, and you've uncovered some really interesting things. So why don't you share what you've learned? Well, we know that economic uncertainty is certain.

It will happen. But did you know that the International Monetary Fund has actually produced a World Uncertainty Index? Okay.

It covers 143 countries with data for the past 60 years. And right now, that uncertainty is about as high as it's been since 2000. And this is a concern because uncertainty can lead to fear, decision paralysis, and irrational decision making.

There's no question about that. So let's talk about some practical steps we can take during uncertain times. Well, first, we want to remember that God's in control. And let's focus on his promises.

He says, I'll never leave you or forsake you in Hebrews 13 five. He also says that if we have food and clothing, we can be content in First Timothy six, eight. And so we need to realize that his promises are what give us the certainty that we need. We also can't avoid the consequences of an economy that has not followed God's principles in its decision making. We need to know that God owns it all and we're managing it for him. And we need to be willing to ask ourselves, what's the worst thing that could happen?

I think that's a great question to help overcome fear is just go ahead and say, what's the worst thing that could happen and then follow it up with what's the likelihood of that happening? Remember how God has sustained us in the past. And then we also want to avoid the trap of thinking this is the worst it's ever been.

Think back biblical times I could list a number but let's just think about the Israelites when they were released from Egypt, they were celebrating being freed from slavery, but they were out in the desert with nothing to prepare them for food, clothing, shelter, and yet God took care of them. And even in recent history, I thought this was interesting. The Harvard Business Review late last year said that over the last six years, we've had to grapple with five major uncertainty shocks. It was Brexit in 2016, the US presidential election, the China US trade tensions, the COVID pandemic, and of course, the Ukraine war and currently the Israel war.

So lots going on. And we just need to avoid that trap of thinking this is the worst it's ever been. And then finally, we need to be sure we're following God's principles. We can only control our decisions and we need to rest assured knowing that we've done everything we can to manage our life well.

Yeah, that's so helpful just to put it all in perspective. And I love that you said it needs to come back to what we can actually do managing our own economies. And you tell us often there's four things we can do with money. There's money we live on, the money we give, the money we owe, and the money we grow.

What are some quick specific things we can do in each of those four areas? Well, you're going to think this is repetitious, but in living, we want to spend less than we earn. Giving, we want to practice open-handed generosity. Owing, we want to avoid the use of debt.

And growing, we want to save diligently for future needs. Yeah, that's really helpful. Now, I know you also have some information about how folks can take a proactive approach to dealing with uncertainty and help others in the process. Tell us about that.

Absolutely. At the end of the day, certainty is only found in God, our creator, sustainer, and provider. And that's why I'm excited about the work that FaithVise is doing to point people to God and his unchanging principles. As we look forward to 2024, we want to invite you to partner with FaithVise. We continue to create a movement of faithful stewards who withstand economic uncertainty by loving God, loving their neighbor, and making wise decisions with the money God has trusted to them. If you'd like to help us reach our 250,000 end-of-year fundraising goal, please consider a monthly or one-time financial gift to FaithVise by going to FaithVise.com and click Give before December 31st.

That's exactly right. And any gift to FaithVise has a ripple effect because it helps others get their finances in order so they can give more to God's kingdom. Again, FaithVise.com, just click Give. Now, Sharon, will you stick around and answer some questions with us? I would love to.

All right. Call right now, 800-525-7000. Rob West and Sharon Epps with you today on Faith in Finance Live, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right back. The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or professional opinions of the participants given for informational purposes only.

Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your specific situation. So glad to have you with us today on Faith in Finance Live here on Moody Radio. I'm Rob West.

With me today, Sharon Epps. And together, we're taking your calls and questions now on anything financial, whether you want to continue the conversation on economic and financial uncertainty or turn the page to whatever you're dealing with in your financial life as you live, give, owe and grow. We'd love to tackle it with you, point you back to scripture and the principles we see in God's word and help you make a decision with confidence. We've got some lines open. The calls will come quickly. So call right now with your financial question. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. Again, our team is standing by 800-525-7000. All right, let's dive in.

Karen in Lakeland, how can we help you? Yes. So I just got a car. It's a 2012. I bought it used. So I had to put down $3,000. So credit acceptance is who I have the loan through. So it's not really a surplus money I have, but I want to put down on the 11th. We lost you.

We lost you there for a second. You said you wanted to put down how much Karen? I wanted to pay down on the loan, the loan that I have paid when I was 11,000. Okay. So I want to put down like 7,000 like next month.

Nothing has to do with it. So how do I go about doing it? Like when I should I call credit acceptance and say I want to put such and such money towards the loan? Yeah. Well, Karen, we're glad that you want to add to the loan. One quick question I would ask you. Do you have an emergency savings built up? Yes, I do. Good.

Yes. So that we want you to pay off debt, but we always want to make sure that you have an emergency savings before you put a lot of cash towards debt. So from a practical standpoint, you would pay the additional amount the same way that you pay your monthly payment. If you have a monthly payment coupon that you send in, you could just send the additional amount that way, or you could go ahead and call your lender and ask them to apply it either way. Karen, thanks for your call today. Keep in mind the payment is not going to change.

That scheduled payment will stay the same unless you pay it off in full, which it goes away at that point or you refinance. But as long as you're able to continue that monthly payment and to Sharon's point, have that emergency fund, we love the idea of you accelerating this payoff. Thanks for your call.

Let's go to Chicago. Hi, Larry. Hi, how are you? I'm 64 years old. I could retire tomorrow. I'm in pretty good financial shape. My house is paid for. The wife works. She makes good money, good insurance. I'm working now and have a pretty good job, pretty good income. My question is, based on the fact that my Social Security and her Social Security and her pension, we would actually be making more money now if we retired than if we kept working.

But we both enjoy our jobs. So since I don't have any IRA or Roth IRA money put aside to speak of because of paid for my daughter's college and so forth, I am now putting about 95 percent of my check every week into retirement savings that is also matched by my company. So my question is, I don't know if should I my allotment right now is 50, 50, 50 percent in a Roth IRA and 50 percent in a regular IRA. I don't know, based on being 64, what I should do is in terms of should I go 100 percent IRA, 100 percent Roth IRA?

Is my mix good or do you have any advice on that? Yeah, it's a great question. So how far out from retirement do you think you are? I would say at least to six years, to 70. I'll get the, I'm looking at gaining the full 8 percent a year on my Social Security, God willing, that my health keeps up. But, you know, if something happens and I have to retire, well, like I said, I'm not concerned that I won't get the full, you know, the full the full Monty, as I like to say, at 70 years old. Gotcha.

OK, very good. And the majority of your income will be covered by your pension, correct? So this is really just supplemental savings for retirement?

No, yeah, this is a supplement. It's not, I don't have a pension. My wife has a pension. So with my Social Security maxed out at about thirty two hundred a month and hers at about thirty two hundred a month and another five grand a month on her pension, you know, we're looking at being OK for for, you know, everyday money. You know, it's not going to hurt us when we retire. Plus the house is paid for. So the only thing we're looking at is, you know, that monthly bill family that visits me every month, the Xfinity, the Verizon, you know, all those types of things.

Yeah, very good. Well, you know, the thing that we don't know, the unknown, if you will, is where taxes are going to be and whether you'd benefit more from the tax deduction now or the ability to pull out tax free in retirement. And a lot of that has to do with what your income is going to be. So a lot of folks will prioritize a traditional IRA contribution in the latter part of their working years because their income is at the peak level. It's going to drop in retirement as you move to more passive income.

And therefore, you know, they benefit more from the current tax deduction as it goes in versus the Roth, which is more helpful in the earlier years. The only wild card here is we're probably at the lower end, if not the low end of the tax brackets. Tax Cuts and Jobs Act will expire in 2025. Taxes are likely going higher.

All that's predicated on the next presidential election in Congress. But if taxes are going anywhere, they're probably going up. So one benefit to you continuing to fund the Roth is you go ahead and pay the tax now on our lower tax rates. And then the second added benefit is you don't have to pull it out at 73 for the required minimum.

You could just let it continue to grow and then give it away to your heirs. So I would say either stay with that 50-50 or prioritize the Roth since so much of your retirement is in a tax deferred environment and you'll be paying taxes on it as it's paid out to you through your wife's pension. Does that all make sense? Yeah. So what I'm understanding is either stick with the 50-50 or lean more towards the Roth like a 70-30 or 60-40.

Yeah. Ultimately, you need to make this call or you could visit with your advisor. But yeah, I think just at a high level, given where tax rates are, one consideration is that you'll do better to go ahead and pay the tax now at these lower rates and then have the ability to let that money just to continue to grow. If you don't need it, you're not going to have to pull it out with a required minimum on a Roth.

And so you could either leave it set where it is and continue to build both the tax deferred and the tax free bucket in the traditional and the Roth, or maybe skew even more heavily toward the Roth would just be one consideration. That's fantastic. Thank you very much. I was unaware that there was no required minimum withdrawal from a Roth when you hit a certain age. That's right.

Yeah. It's unique to the Roth. It certainly is the case with the traditional, the pre-tax, whether it's a 401k or an IRA, you have to take that money out.

You don't with the Roth because they've already got their money. So they'll let you continue to let that grow. Hey, Larry, God bless you, my friend. Thanks for being on the program today.

We're grateful. Well, Sharon Epps with me today, we're taking your calls and questions and it looks like we have four lines open. So when we come back from this break, we'll continue to tackle the questions on your mind today.

Call right now, 800-525-7000. We'll look forward to speaking to you. This is Faith and Finance Live on Moody Radio. We'll be right back. Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. Sharon Epps here today. We're taking your calls and questions. Looks like all the lines are full. So let's dive right back in.

We'll go to Ocala. Hi, Kathy. How can we help? Hi.

Thank you for taking my call. My elderly father has drafted up a document. I believe it's called a life and life estate deed. And we're in the house that he owns and lives in along with his caregiver, which is my oldest brother, is willed to the three of us. And my question is, sir, I have been auditing my dad's finances and I'm about to take over paying his bills and whatnot, but he has a lot of credit card debt. And I wondered if he should pass away.

Would they put a lien against his house before the house could be sold and distributed equally to the three of us? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Kathy, that's a great question. When he passes, all of his assets and debt will go into the estate and would be paid out of that. So I guess part of the question is, are there other assets other than the house that could be used to pay off the debt? No, ma'am.

OK. All right. So it does sound like the house would need to be sold to honor the debt. Now, from a standpoint of a lien, the credit card issuers don't have a right to attach a lien to the home because it's not a mortgage property. It's a credit card, an unsecure, what we call an unsecured debt. So they wouldn't have the right to attach a lien, but they could come against the estate for payment of the loan of the credit cards.

So you would want to be sure that there's a plan to sell the house to communicate with the creditors your intentions and a desire to pay it off from the estate as soon as the house is sold. OK, I'm in the process of. Yes, sir, absolutely. I'm looking into possible. What is it, some kind of agreement where you go into to negotiate your debt and make a monthly payment through one of the credit services? Yeah.

So a debt management program? Yes, sir. Yeah. I believe you mentioned one. Yeah.

Christian credit counselors dot org would be the one that we recommend. OK, great. I appreciate your time, sir. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Kathy. Yes.

Let's go to Loretta, also in Florida. How are you today and how can we help you? I'm fine. And you all doing great. Thanks. Great.

I thank you for taking my call. I have a question about annuity. Can you explain annuity to me? Annuities. I have an old 401K in the company. I used to work sitting there and paying paying fees out of it. So I figured paying those fees is going to dwindle down. So what are your thoughts about the annuities? Has somebody recommended an annuity to you? Yes.

Someone recommended annuity to me versus a, I guess, rollover to a Roth. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Typically, we prefer that you roll over into an IRA. And the reason for that is that you know exactly what your fees are. There are you've got a very clear ability to help control your investments in an annuity.

Sometimes that's a little bit harder to determine and is is a little bit trickier to manage. And so we do recommend that you look at the IRA. It's a lot more straightforward to understand and manage through the ups and downs of the market. And you can roll that out of your company account and what's called a direct rollover. You don't have tax implications in that. We do recommend that you do that. How much do you have, if you don't mind me asking Loretta, in that 401K?

It's probably a little over $100,000 there about maybe $200,000. I haven't been minded. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, I think the best option to Sharon's point, when you roll that out, you may want to look at connecting with an advisor, perhaps a certified kingdom advisor there in Florida, who could explain to you what your options are. You know, those that go with an annuity typically are looking to minimize risk and transfer that to an insurance company. But to Sharon's point, they're complicated and expensive, and you lose access, at least for a period of time to the capital. So having an advisor that could manage that inside an IRA would give you ultimate flexibility, control over the investments and the full upside, even though you are taking the risk on the downside, that would just be managed through diversified a diversified portfolio. And you can, you know, be as conservative or the advisor can be as conservative as you would like based on your goals.

Do you have an advisor or would you need to locate one? I do not have one. I would have to locate one. Okay.

Yeah. So we can help with that at faithfi.com. That's faithfi.com. Right there at the top of the page, it'll say, find a CKA and that stands for certified kingdom advisor.

And these are men and women who've met high standards and character and competence and experience, but they've also been trained to bring a biblically wise approach to financial decision making. Okay. Okay, great.

Very good. Hey, are you, how far off are you from retirement or are you just changing jobs? I'm probably about six to seven years from retirement or longer. I just, I don't, I love working. Okay, good.

Well, God created us to be workers, so I think that's probably hardwired into your DNA. Well, listen, Loretta, thanks for being on the program today. We appreciate it. May the Lord bless you. Thank you. Likewise. God bless you. All right, take care. Well, we're going to continue to take some phone calls, Sharon.

Just after this break, we've got about a minute before that break. You know, we started today by talking about economic uncertainty and one of the opportunities we have in uncertain times is to continue to be generous, which is a testimony to those looking on that our trust is squarely placed in the Lord, isn't it? It absolutely is. In fact, we believe that giving is the best way not only to demonstrate it to the world, but also to yourself, that you are fully reliant on God. And remember, there's ways to give both financially and with your time. So no matter where you are in your, in your uncertainty, there are ways that you can be generous and it's a great way to avoid that depression and hopelessness when we're only focused on ourselves.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And especially this time of year, what a great opportunity to really be thoughtful and strategic, even intentional about your generosity, whether that's financially or to Sharon's point in other ways, generous with your influence, generous with your time. Maybe there's somebody on your street or in your church who could use some company, or you may want to get creative in your gift making, whatever it might be. This is a great time in these uncertain times, especially for those in your, on your path in your community who are in need.

Maybe they're hurting this time of year for you to step in and be the hands and feet of Jesus. All right, we're going to take a quick break when we come back, more of your questions. Looks like we've got two lines open, 800-525-7000. Rob West and Sharon Epps with you today here on Faith and Finance Live. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

Well, welcome back to Faith and Finance Live on Moody. I'm Sharon Epps sitting in the studio today with Rob West and we're having a great time taking your calls and listening. We'd love to jump in right away with Catherine from Alabama. How can we help you today, Catherine?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. My husband and I have gone to the same church for 30 plus years. It is very much a Bible-based church.

We have a lot of new younger staff right now, though. And while we've always been a financially secure church, the church has, it seems as if, well it is, there's a lot of talk going on amongst the members that the church is now kind of in the hole in terms of money, the staff having overspent and not being very transparent about it. And we don't think it's anything, you know, that they intended to be hidden about or anything. But what do we do in terms of our tithing if the church is not transparent, they've overspent money, the church is in the hole, and as, you know, tithers and trying to take care of what God has given us correctly, what should we do in this case? Catherine, I want to hear Sharon's thoughts on this.

Just a quick question, though. What leads you to believe that they are in the hole or have overspent, especially given what you said about a lack of transparency? Have you seen some financial information, or did they disclose that in a business meeting? Yes, they disclosed part of it in the business meetings and on the financial reports they put out.

But they do not disclose it all, and they don't seem to be open to doing so. Well, Catherine, that is a difficult thing, especially in a church that you've been at for a long time, I would suggest that perhaps the Lord has you there to offer your wisdom and maturity. And so I would really encourage you to follow the biblical model for conflict resolution. And that would be to ask to sit down with the elders or the leadership of the church, express your concerns directly, ask questions, and perhaps volunteer to walk alongside of them as they figure out the case forward. And I think the way they respond to that will give you an indication of whether or not you need to continue to press into those issues. But certainly it doesn't sound like you would do this. I certainly would encourage you to limit talking to other people in the congregation, but directly go to the source, those that are keeping the books and can tell you exactly where they are.

I don't think we want to withhold tithes as a way of guiding or manipulating the leadership. I think it's a matter of determining whether this is a leadership that God would have you continue to follow. And I think the way you have to do that is in conversation with them.

I would really encourage you to reach out and ask to do that. What are your thoughts on that, Catherine? I don't feel that I have the knowledge really to do all of that. But I do know that people in our church who do accountants, etc., have approached them, questioned them, asked them for the full information disclosure, and have been met with, I'm not going to say hostility, but they don't seem to want to do this.

Yeah. Well, I think to Sharon's point, I think the extent to which you can be that source of anytime there are side conversations going on, perhaps you're the one that steps up and says, you know what, let me encourage you to go talk to the leadership and raise this issue. And to the extent that's already been attempted and not been received well, obviously that's a data point. I think showing up and being involved in the church, perhaps those who are on the finance committee and lay leaders that are involved, even being a part of those business meetings. I mean, that's a forum where these kinds of conversations are invited alongside what Sharon mentioned about where someone who is knowledgeable and has concerns might schedule a meeting directly with the pastor or other leaders in the church. So I think just continuing to be that source of encouraging people to follow the biblical model, as Sharon said, continuing to be a tither, being faithful, but then just trusting and praying that the Lord would make it clear that they would receive this well and perhaps respond to the concerns not only from you, but it sounds like others as well, but trying to limit as much as you can kind of these side conversations and any dispersion that might be among the congregation. So Catherine, we'll certainly ask the Lord to give you some wisdom here.

And as you navigate this, this is not easy. I appreciate it is a difficult decision for you. So thank you so much for putting the Lord first as you're thinking about it. Well, Maryam in Minnesota, how can we help you today? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a recent widow this year, and I've got some CDs, one that just came due and one that's coming due in a couple of weeks.

And of course, I don't have my husband here to consult with anymore. My financial person called and gave me the different rates. And if I went with like a six month CD, the rate would be the interest rate would be 5.35. But she was encouraging me to go with like a year and a half to two years, which would be lower interest rate, but guaranteed for a longer time.

The two year would be as low as 4.8, which is still pretty good. But I, I'm just not sure what to do if I should go for the higher interest rate, a shorter term, either six months or nine months, or go for the lesser interest, but a longer guaranteed rate. Well, Maryam, I'm glad you called. And first of all, I'm just so sorry for your loss.

I know it's a difficult time. And actually, that is really going to guide my answer more than the interest rate. And that is, I would not encourage you to make long term decisions about anything right now in this season. And so I think it's actually a very wise decision to go with the shorter term CD at the 5.35.

Yes, it is a higher rate, but it's actually just buying you some time to come out of the fog of your loss and look at your plan overall. And so we really counsel anybody within their first year of widowhood to take things carefully, make short term decisions. And as you emerge from this first year, things will become a lot clearer and easier to make decisions along the way. Hey, Maryam, let me offer one other thing. You know, I'd love for you to stay on the line when we're done here today. There's a book that's been a blessing to a lot of women in the same position.

It's called Wise Women Managing Money. It was written by Miriam Neff as she navigated this season following her husband's passing and took on the mantle of responsibility financially and really seeking to be a wise steward, having not really been in that position before. And I think it will be an encouragement to you. And we'd love to just send it to you as our gift to you. So if you wouldn't mind, just stay on the line when we're finished here today.

Our team will get your information and we'll get that right out to you. But did you have any other follow up questions or thoughts on what Sharon shared? No, I that that was been my main thing. I've just been praying about it and thinking about it.

What do I do? It's not money that I need right away. But I just wanted to do the wise thing that what the Lord would have me to do. And just thank you.

I appreciate your help and I appreciate the offer of the book. We're delighted to do it Miriam. The Lord is with you and we know during this season we're going to pray that you just have a lot of folks around you encouraging you and lifting you up and I'm delighted that we could spend a few moments with you today as well.

God bless you. Well, folks, we're going to take a quick break. Sharon Epps here today coming up just around the corner. Bob Doll stops by with his market update and then we'll take a few more of your questions as well.

We've got some good ones coming up. This is Faith and Finance Live. Stick around. We'll be right back. Well, it's great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live.

I'm Rob West. Sharon Epps in the studio today. We've been answering your questions today. And before we head back to the phones, we want to take a moment to hear from our good friend Bob Doll. He joins us each week with his market commentary and analysis. And Bob, I know you're out with your deliberations for this week and talking about Goldilocks.

Give us some insight into that. Goldilocks and the three bears. Didn't you have that story when you were a kid? Absolutely.

It's a classic. Yes, it is. And the story of Goldilocks, of course, is not too hot, not too cold. And that's exactly the dream for the economy, that it's not too hot. So we have to worry about overheating and inflation, but not too cold. So we have to worry about earnings.

It's in some sense, nirvana. And that's the consensus is hoping for that and maybe believing that's possible. And time will tell. The other side of the story, of course, is not so fast. It's never perfect out there. And we do have to worry about economic slowdown because don't forget the Fed raised rates from zero to five and a quarter and in 18 short months. And we still have the consequences from that.

So juries out. It's a confusing time, but I guess it's always confusing. It seems like it is. Bob, where do you think we're headed next year, just based on your analysis of where we stand?

And I know it's almost time for you to start working on your 10 predictions. So this is probably rolling around in the back of your mind, huh? Yeah, it is. But in my view, Rob, as you probably know, is that we still have some economic weakness in front of us. A lot of leading in the economic indicators and even some of the coincident ones are showing some signs of, I'll call it, getting tired.

Doesn't mean we have to have a horrible period. We could end up labeling it a recession. But I think this Goldilocks, it's going to be fine as far as the eye can see, is probably a little too idealistic.

Yeah. Well, Bob, I know one of the areas that we've been talking about today is uncertainty. And that's certainly where we are in these economic times. And something that hits many of our families is decisions about their housing. Should we move?

Should we take advantage of our price growth over these last couple of years and move to something else? What would you say you see coming in the housing market? So most people, as you know from the low turnover in housing, have concluded, I'm going to stay right where I am because after we move to another house, that's a lot of hassle. And the house that I might sell, I may get a nice price, but the house I'm going to buy, it's a crazy price too. And so people are voting to stay right where they are. And of course, with mortgage rates having moved up a bunch in the last couple of years, that makes it more prohibitive.

So housing activity has really come to a grinding halt, even, Sharon, as prices have stayed pretty firm, which is the nicer price. Bob, let's finish today on this theme of uncertainty. You know, when we face uncertainty, it's always helpful to follow this biblical principle of maintaining a long-term perspective. And I know that's something you would encourage our listeners, right? Absolutely. Getting caught up in the short term ends up, you're chasing your tail in a sense.

And most people don't get the short-term moves right because it's crowd psychology. So have a plan, make a plan, have a financial advisor that can give you good biblical advice. Stick to that plan and kind of hold your nose through the thick and the thin. Well said. Bob, thanks for your time, my friend. God bless you. All the best. Bye. All right.

That's Bob Doll. He's chief investment officer at Crossmark Global Investments. You can sign up for his weekly market commentary at crossmarkglobal.com. All right, let's head back to the phones. We'll round out the program today with your questions to Chattanooga. Sophia, I'm so glad you've gotten on the program today.

How can we help? Yes, my question is about developing an emergency savings. Like after when your Social Security and retirement pension are guaranteed, is it necessary to do an emergency savings monthly? After I pay my bills, I have about 50% of my income left. And then I do pay extra, I'm paying down $5,000 in credit card debt that I have left to pay out.

And it was just a little bit more than that. So I'll pay extra on that. But then I find that each month I'm just spending what's left after paying my bills, which has been a significant amount. Now starting in January, I do plan to pay like $1,000 extra monthly on my mortgage. But how do I discipline myself to stop spending what's left over? Oh, that's a great question. So if I think you answered it actually in your question, and that is when we wait till it's left over, it just disappears. And so the best thing that we can do is to actually pay down whatever you're going to pay down first or put in savings what you're going to put in savings first, and then live on the rest. So the order matters and a lot of people are challenged with having what's left over and thinking I'll put that in savings and then there's none left over.

So I think you're thinking correctly. Absolutely, we do want you to have emergency savings even if your income is guaranteed, because your expenses aren't guaranteed. And so emergency savings is both for loss in income, but also for unexpected expenses.

And so you never know when that car may break down, you may have an unexpected medical bill. So we do want to encourage you even while you're paying down debt to be sure that that emergency account is funded. Thank you, Sophia for calling today. Good to talk to you. Glad you were with us. Let's move now to Jake in Lebanon, Maryland. How can we help you today, Jake? Hi, I just thank you for taking my call.

First off. I'm honestly really new to expenses. I was I was a stay at home dad for five years.

And as we know during that time, that doesn't pay much. I've had some old bills that were that were piling up on my credit. And right now I'm getting back to managing my own finances and trying to build credit. I've recently taken out two loans. I've got a smaller one and then a larger one.

I was wondering if it would be a good idea to pay off the smaller one with the larger one and just go with one way of building credit. I also have a small credit card as well. But I'm, I'm looking to buy a house in the near future. And I'm, I'm honest, I'm really new to this, truly. Well, thanks for asking the question. And first of all, stay at home dad, your payment comes in love from your children and internally investment there.

So I would just want to encourage you that that's a great role to have. But as you're looking at building your credit, I want to just encourage you that taking loans when you need them for purposes of a purchase that is escalating value is good. Taking loans just to take loans in the long run probably isn't the most effective way. So I think I would start with do you have an emergency savings built up? Do you have liquidity? Let's look at that in first and then we'll look at your credit. Well, truly I, I, my, my soon to be ex wife managed all the finances and uh, I, I started from zero three months ago and I, I've already built up my credit in those three months to where I've, I can actually get these loans. But as far as any, any extras, I'm, I'm, there is none. Gotcha.

Okay. Well that's what we want you to focus on and I don't know if there's an opportunity to cut some expenses, increase some income, but we want you to get some liquidity, some emergency savings set aside. I would say your first goal start with $1,000 can I save $1,000 to put in a simple savings account to access when I need it so that I don't have to go back to debt. And as you start building that savings, then you can accelerate your loan payoffs and continue to build your credit. But you definitely will want to build some liquidity or cash in the bank before you do much more on the borrowing side.

I think that's great advice to those loans. Jake, um, tell us quickly just what kinds of loans those are in the interest rates. For instance, are they both personal loans with no collateral? Uh, one's a personal loan with no collateral and the other one is a title loan with secured.

Okay. And what are the interest rates on them? I think one is, I want to say 22% and that's the, uh, that's the secured one. And then the small one is like 37%.

It's extremely high. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. So we want to stay away from those. We want to get those paid off as quick as you can. I think even with those high interest rates, having that 500 or a thousand dollars that Sharon mentioned is important to break the cycle of borrowing, but then let's get those paid off as quick as we can. Probably not trying to merge them or paying them off. Uh, you know, one with the other, but just really prioritizing, starting with that one at 37%. Let's do this. Um, we'd love to have just as our gift to you, a certified Christian financial counselor, reach out to you, Jake.

He can, uh, or she can do a couple of things. Number one, help you set up your spending plan since that's not been something previously you've had to do. Uh, perhaps they can teach you some tricks of the trade to kind of get that budget in place, create a control system to control the flow of money in and out. The second is help to advise you on how to handle this debt and put a plan together to pay it off as quickly as possible.

There won't be any cost for that. It's just something we'd love to be able to do to help you get pointed in the right direction. So Jake, why don't you stay on the line and we'll get, uh, somebody in contact with you.

It'll be a certified Christian financial counselor. Okay. Thank you so much, guys.

I appreciate your advice. Hey, delighted to do it. God bless you, Jake. And, uh, we appreciate you being on the program.

Sharon, we're short on time. You know, let's bring this full circle today. Just thinking about where we started, even some of the questions we've tackled today, where would you like to finish as we wrap this up? Well, I think just back where we started and that is let's rely on the promises of God in our tough situations, whether you've just lost a spouse or you're just now establishing credit, um, spend time in his word, claim those promises and don't do it alone.

Be sure that you're in community with other believers who can encourage you along the way. Yeah, that is so critical. I always love when you sit in on these broadcasts and answer these questions. I appreciate your wisdom and your insight. Thanks for being here. You're welcome.

That was Sharon Epps, president of kingdom advisors. And we're so thankful that you joined us today for the broadcast. I hope you're leaving encouraged, pointed back to God as your true provider with your trust squarely in him, relying on the principles and scripture as you, uh, manage the money God has entrusted to you. Faith and Finance Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and Faith Five for Laura, Dan, Tahira, and Jim. We're Rob West and Sharon Epps, and we'll see you next time on this program, Faith and Finance Live. Bye-bye.