Every Dollar of Profit Has a Story to Tell

Mark 8, 36 and 37 reads, For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? For what can a man give in return for his soul?

I am Rob West. The purpose of investing is to earn a profit. The purpose of man is to glorify God. Those two endeavors don't have to conflict. I'll chat with him about that first today. Hey, thanks Rob.

It's really great to be with you. Absolutely. You know, it's a well-known fact that the Bible has a lot to say on the topic of money. And Rob, I've heard you say often here on Money Wise that there are over 2,300 verses in the Bible on the topic of money. And Jesus himself taught on money more than on many other seemingly weightier and more spiritual matters, such as prayer, heaven and hell. Clearly, the way we relate to money is something that matters a great deal to God.

Well, an interesting question we could ask is this. What are all these verses trying to teach us? If we were to take all these verses on money and spread them out onto a very big table, are there any common themes among them? An interesting question, right?

It sure is. Philip Yancey, a pastor, cites a friend who thought about all these money verses in much the same way. And here's what he discovered. There are only three main questions the Bible is asking us about money. Three. So are you ready for this?

I think this is so good. Check this out. So the three main questions the Bible is asking us about money. Number one, how did you get it? How did you earn this money?

Did you earn it righteously and justly or exploitably? Number two, what are you doing with it? Are you using money to indulge in needless luxuries or using it to help the needy? And number three, what is it doing to you? Fascinating question. How is your use of money changing you and making you a different person for better or for worse?

And of course, many of Jesus's most trenchant parables and teachings go straight to the, quote, heart of the matter on money. So one more time, how did you get it? What are you doing with it?

What is it doing to you? Isn't that great? I love that. So to go back to your question about should we be asking about how our investing returns are being generated? Absolutely right. This is one of the main questions the Bible is asking us on money. Yeah, that's tremendous. And it really strikes me, Jason, this isn't the kind of question we're used to asking, is it?

That's right. In fact, a further question we could ask is this of the three main questions the Bible is asking us about money, which is the one that's least talked about in the church today? I think it's that first question.

How did you get it? How are you earning your money? Think about it. When was the last time you heard a sermon or teaching on the importance of examining how we make our money? We have so many teachings today in the church on generous giving, on watching our heart relationship to money, but almost nothing on how we earn our money. And I suspect, Jason, that's a question many of us would actually struggle to answer about our investing today.

Oh, most certainly. Pastor Randy Alcorn, who's written a lot on the topic of money, has this to say, the average Christian whose retirement program is in mutual funds or stocks managed by others, has no clue where God's money is actually going. No clue. And William Cavanaugh, a professor of Catholic studies at DePaul University, says, retirement accounts tend to just go into mutual funds, where as an investor, not only do I not have any idea how the companies that I have stock in are being operated, I don't even know what companies I have stock in. We often have no idea. Well, that's powerful. And perhaps God is calling us to ask some of these hard questions about how we're earning our money, including through our investments. And Jason, I know just around the corner, you'll share some real life examples, both how companies are using profits negatively, harmfully, perhaps, and positive examples of how we're encouraging human flourishing. Faith-based investing is our topic today. Our guest is Jason Meyer of the Eventide Center for Faith and Investing.

We'll be right back. Welcome back to MoneyWise Live. Every dollar of profit has a story to tell. We're joined today by Eventide Center for Faith and Investing director, Jason Meyer. Jason joins us regularly and we're talking about the growing faith-based investing movement. And Jason, just before the break, we were talking about how so few of us know where the profits are coming from in the companies we're investing in. And I'd love to make this real for our listeners. Can you share a real life example of a problem we come up against in investing?

Sure. And I'll not name the specific company here because we don't want to cast stones, but I'll give an example of a large pharmaceutical company. So this is a company that makes a drug called misoprestol, which is a drug that is most commonly used to induce a medical abortion. The company sells more than $100 million annually of this drug and they pay a handsome dividend, currently 3.3%. And so this money is flowing directly into the pockets of its investors. And the company is in the S&P 500, which means it's one of the largest 500 companies in America.

And so it's certainly a company that many people own through many large-cap mutual funds and certainly in any large-cap ETF. This example is unfortunately one of many that we could enumerate on a problem so we can come into an investing. And I think most Christians, those of us listening, if given the choice, would happily forego these profits that come from sources like this.

Well, that's right. I know that many Christian investors simply don't know about this problem. But on the other hand, Jason, there are many businesses we could actually be proud to own, right? Give us a positive example. Sure. I'd be delighted to.

I love doing this. But, you know, first let me say, you know, the problems of business and investing are actually distortions of God's good design. We have this conviction, which comes from Scripture, that business and investing are meant to provide to the material needs of the world and bring glory and honor to God. Business and investing together are meant to enlarge the beauty and goodness of God's good creation.

And we can find many, many examples in the world of investing today that still reflect God's good design. Let me share another health care example, just off of the contrast to the negative one I shared before. This company is working on a treatment for children with growth hormone deficiency. Children with growth hormone deficiency, or GHD, experience a problem where their bodies don't produce enough of a specific hormone needed to grow to their full genetic potential. This is a disorder that is detected when they are just infants.

As the recordings of their height and weight on the charts that are often done when children are young, the trajectory of those fall below normal ranges. The standard of care for GHD for the past 25 years has been to supply children with recombinant or man-made growth hormone that's identical to that produced in the body. And the good news is this allows children with GHD to reach their full stature. And the bad news is that while it's effective, the treatment requires daily injections from infancy to puberty, so roughly age 4 to 16. And because of the pain of the injections and demanding daily schedule, two out of three patients miss more than one dose weekly. And predictably, missing doses is associated with children not reaching their full potential. And so what this company has done is to develop a novel way to make life better for these children and their parents. By linking the negative hormone to a safe organic polymer, they've found a way to extend the release of that hormone in the body, thereby changing the regimen from daily to only once weekly.

And this makes the treatment, of course, much more manageable for families and in early clinical outcomes has actually shown even better growth paths than the daily injection regimen. That's an incredible story, Jason. And ones like it really highlight the value of faith-driven investments available today, don't they?

Yeah, that's right. You know, at the heart of the faith-driven investing movement is a recognition that behind every dollar of profit, there is a story, a story about how those dollars are earned. And I believe that God cares about the dollars I do, but more than these, I believe he cares about the stories about how those dollars are earned.

And I think he wants those stories to be good stories, right? Stories about business activities that are helping people, that are improving the lives of others, that are bringing a measure of blessing and rejoicing into the world. And faith-driven investing for me, and I think for all of us, is a way for us to pursue good stories behind every dollar of profit that comes into our hands.

That's really exciting. Jason, you've been on the forefront of this movement. I know we've seen tremendous growth in asset flow into these types of investments, which is good news. Where do you see all of this headed? Because I suspect when Christians begin to become aware that this opportunity exists, that they can ask these questions beyond just the return toward the activities that are generating the profits that they're the recipients of, that this whole space is going to grow even quicker than it has been.

What are you seeing in the future? So we've been speaking today really about one side of investing, which is the side of investing that has to do with us receiving profits and wanting to ensure that those profits are coming from sources that we can feel good about from a Christian perspective. But there's another side of investing that I don't think gets enough attention, and it has to do with the supply of our capital toward business.

You know, the reason businesses issue stocks and bonds is so that they can get capital to accomplish their work in the world. And so what I see happening is it starts with this kind of examination of what we're profiting from, but as more and more dollars are flowing toward stories like the positive example I shared, we're actually reshaping the world more in line with God's design for business and for investing. And so the exciting possibilities behind more dollars flowing into this movement are actually the ways in which these dollars will reshape the world around us and actually bring about a greater practice of God's intent for business and investing in the world.

Wow, it's incredible. Well, I suspect many of our listeners today, Jason, are wondering how they can get more information about all the exciting things that you've shared. So where can they go to learn how to bring their faith to their investing? Yeah, so we just launched the Eventide Center for Faith and Investing, and so this is going to be a website where there's going to be many resources for Christian investors to actually learn about how to bring their faith to bear in the world of investing today with all of its complexity and opacity and all the difficult decisions that are there. And so that website is faithandinvesting.com. That's faithandinvesting.com, and AND is all spelled out there.

Very good. Well, I'm so excited that there's a growing number of resources, even on the education side, for believers to really acquaint themselves with everything that you're describing here today, because really, I think at the heart of it is a lack of awareness related to this opportunity. Would you agree?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, just all of the charts and the ticker symbols and all the numbers, it often hides really what's happening in investing. And so many of us simply don't know to ask the kinds of questions we've been discussing today. But I hope that we're able to help people look behind those numbers and actually see the deeper stories that are taking place in the world of business and the things that we're investing in. Well, Jason, thank you for shedding some light on a few of those stories today. We appreciate you stopping by, as always. My pleasure.

Thanks, Rob. Jason Meyer has been our guest today. He's director of the Eventide Center for Faith and Investing. You can learn more at faithandinvesting.com. Your calls are next, 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. I'm Rob West, and this is MoneyWise Live. We'll be right back. Thanks for joining us today on MoneyWise Live. I'm Rob West, your host.

We're so glad you're along with us today. In just a moment, we're going to be taking your calls and questions on anything financial. We'd love to hear from you. 800-525-7000. We've still got a few lines open. Again, 800-525-7000.

We're going to begin today in Wichita, Kansas. Gwen, thank you for calling today. How can I help you? Thank you for taking my call.

I appreciate it. My wife and I have been blessed enough that we can start investing a little more than we do in our 401K and savings account. We have been talking to an advisor actually about eight years ago, got what's called cash value life insurance through this friend of ours, really. He's suggesting that we put all of this extra money that now we are wanting to invest in the cash value life insurance.

While it seems like it's a guaranteed 5%, up to the point, I think, that we're 71 or 69 or something like that, I wanted to get your take on cash value life insurance versus investing in something through another kingdom. Like a kingdom advisor, this is someone that we have talked to but haven't made a decision yet. Very good. Give me just a little thumbnail sketch of where you all are at. What is your age, work status, where you're at in life? 55 and 56, my wife and I. She works for a nonprofit and so she has a 403B, I think it is, and I have a 401K. We don't have a lot of money in either one of those, maybe close to $100,000 in each. And then a life insurance policy, which I think is about $100,000, and that's that cash value life insurance. Yeah. And what is the cash value that's accumulated in that policy, do you know? I don't know the answer to that question.

Okay, no problem. And what percent of your income are you putting in those 401Ks? If you were to combine the contributions that she's putting in, plus what you're putting in, plus any matches, do you have a sense of the percentage of your total take-home pay that's going into those retirement plans? Yeah, probably 15 to 20%.

Okay, alright. And over and above that you have some extra money and that's what you're wanting to put to work? Yeah, we're thinking $1,000 a month.

Okay, very good. You know, I'm not a huge fan of whole life insurance because it mixes insurance with an investing component. You know, my experience is that you can do better by keeping those things separate, buying an inexpensive term life policy and then combining that with a qualified retirement plan. You know, that allows you to get the coverage you need on an inexpensive basis to make sure that you're adequately insured so that if you were to pre-decease your wife, that she has the death benefit she needs to maintain her lifestyle, continue to save for the future and perhaps pay off the house if that hasn't been done and give her a replacement for your income.

And the same for her. If she were to pre-decease you, that you have the coverage you need. And a lot of times when we buy whole life insurance, we just end up being underinsured with a smaller death benefit than you really need. So I want to make sure first you're adequately covered.

I want to do that as inexpensively as possible. In terms of just the whole life policy as a savings vehicle, it tends to be expensive and you have less control and fewer investment options. Now, where is it good? Because I'm not one of those that says it never has a place. Well, it can make sense if you've maxed out all of your other qualified plan contributions and you still have money to invest because it can grow tax deferred and then of course the death benefit if it's ever needed is tax free in most cases. So there is a place for it but I would be looking to max out your 401k first and look at perhaps funding a Roth IRA for each of you which over the age of 50 you could do $7,000 apiece or a total of $14,000 a year which would give you your roughly $1,000 a month that you're looking to put away. That would typically be my preferred option and then you get that investing. Now, obviously you're assuming the risk with that because it has to be invested and anytime it's invested without a guarantee from an insurance company, there is the risk of loss.

I mean you could have a principal loss if you were to start investing systematically and it begins moving up and then we had a recession and the market's down 20 or 30% and not for 30 days like we saw with the beginning of the pandemic but where it's down for 18 months or a couple of years. But the idea would be that you'd continue dollar cost averaging in every month with $1,000 a month and you'd be buying more shares with the same contribution so that as the market recovered and historically it always does, you would benefit from those lower entry points. And then you would get more and more conservative over time as you neared retirement so that ultimately you would have these retirement accounts that would be able to supplement other retirement income like Social Security and your 401K. So that would be my approach unless you said I just am so risk averse, I like the guarantee of an insurance company even though I know I'm giving up a few things or B, no, I've already maxed out all of my qualified retirement accounts at work and this is a place where I can continue to accumulate because perhaps we're a little behind or something like that.

Give me your thoughts on that though. Well, it just sounds to me, I'm not averse to risk at all but I am old, I'm getting old and so that risk does concern me some. I'm still not comfortable with 5% is awesome if I can't get 5% from the market but I think our big concern was is it worth really the money that we're putting into it versus the return we might get on like a Roth. And with 10 years till retirement and then if you're in good health and the Lord tarries, you need this money the last decades so you still have a long time horizon here and you should be able to outpace that but I think the question is what's the right option for you. So if it were me, I like the option of keeping those separate, buying the term insurance you need, investing in those retirement plans, being consistent and letting that grow over time.

Historically, you're going to do better that way. Let's talk a little bit more off the air. I've got to hit a break. We'll be right back on MoneyWise Live.

Stay with us. Here's a copy to you with my thoughts for the week on how you can be an effective and faithful steward of God's money plus our trending articles and podcasts and great information on how you can manage God's money biblically and wisely and we'd love to deliver that to you. Just head to MoneyWiseLive.org, create a free account and we'll make sure we deliver that to you. By the way, we have a great offer going on this month for you to become a pro subscriber which will allow you to take full advantage of the MoneyWise app, automatically download all your transactions and pro subscribers get access to our MoneyWise coaches. You can schedule a 30 minute visit with a coach whenever you'd like to get some help with your financial situation, some guidance on spending plans, debt repayment plans, whatever you're dealing with in your financial life. That's why they're there and that's a complimentary service for our pro subscribers. This month is a great opportunity to check that out.

Just go to MoneyWise.org slash pro and you can learn about the discounts that are available for a limited time. Let's head back to the phones today. By the way, three lines are open. 800-525-7000. Rebecca is in the Quad Cities. Rebecca, thanks for calling. How can I help you?

Hi, I just love your program and it's a great ministry and I know you're short on time. My question is, first of all, I'm retired and I would like to know whether or not it's mandatory that I get a legal lawyer or a family member to be my executor. Well, you will want to have an executor that's named for your state. This is the person that is ultimately going to have a big job in charge of everything from filing the will with the court to paying off your debts, closing accounts, making sure your remaining assets are distributed as specified in the will. On average, this can take over a year to do and so it is a big job and I think you're going to want to choose that person wisely in terms of obviously they need to be somebody responsible and good financial standing. You want to make sure this is somebody that can be objective and I would have a successor executor in the event that that person can't fulfill their duties and in some cases, Rebecca, you mentioned choosing a corporate executor. That can make some sense as well in certain cases if you don't have family members living close by or you have complex assets for blended or non-traditional families, that can make a lot of sense or if you have family members with special needs, if you have assets or beneficiaries out of the country. I mean these kinds of things make that a no-brainer where a corporate executor has complete objectivity and can fulfill this responsibility.

So that is certainly something you need. In terms of drafting the will and the related estate documents, I generally recommend as opposed to using a free service or an online service, I recommend using an estate planning attorney in the state in which you reside or the individual resides. Just so that it can be in compliance with the state laws, they can help you think through all of the related issues and then draft a document or documents that reflect your wishes that will stand up in court and be appropriate for your situation. But do you have any questions related to that?

Yes, I do. First of all, I live in one state and my family is in another state, I'm 69 years old, so that means I'm not married, I have no property, I just rent, and I have great, great, great life insurance. So I really don't own anything and I was wondering whether or not there was like a booklet that a layperson can just follow the instructions of what do you do, do you call all of your credit card companies and utility folks, and just say Social Security and the IRS and say, oh, well, this person is deceased.

I didn't know if that layperson has a book available, or whether or not I should go to a legal lawyer as an estate planner, knowing that my family is in another state. And I don't own anything other than, you know, insurance and a car that I think I'm going to give away. Okay.

Yeah, well, a couple of things. Number one is I'd like to send you a copy of the resource from Howard Dayton and Compass called Set Your House in Order. I think it'll be a great tool just to make sure you've thought through all of the issues related to that. Again, it's called Set Your House in Order.

We'll send it as our gift to you. You just hang on the line after we're done here today, and that will help you organize your finances and plan your estate. In terms of drafting a will, I mean, you could certainly do that online. A great website to get you started would be nolo.com, N-O-L-O. But I just generally recommend, Rebecca, that you get legal counsel here. I think this is just one of those areas, kind of like preparing your taxes or selling a house, where it's just invaluable to have an expert who can walk alongside you.

But if your situation is just real simple and you feel like you can do it yourself, then there are plenty of online tools to do that, and Nolo could get you pointed in the right direction. So I hope that's helpful to you. We certainly appreciate you calling today. And if you stay on the line, we'll get this resource, Set Your House in Order, right out to you. It's our gift to you, and God bless you. Let's head now to PA, Pennsylvania. Glenn is waiting patiently. Glenn, how can I help you?

Good afternoon. I was wanting to get a secured credit card to open an Amazon account, because I was a little leery of linking a debit card to the Amazon in case it got hacked and then they could take the rest of my money. Do you have any recommendations for a card, and is my concern legitimate? You know, there are protections by most of the debit cards, but you're right. It is more complicated, because as opposed to the money being charged against your account and then you disputing it and the company then not making you responsible for it, and then the credit card company goes after the party that compromised it. With the debit card, it's more complicated, because to your point, the money comes right out, and there is a process to remedy that. But in the meantime, it creates a mess, because if you have automatic debits and checks that are clearing, you know, you could be in an overdraft situation.

So I totally get that. Why the secured card versus an unsecured card? I'm just curious if you were to get this specifically for the purpose you're describing. Just in case it were accessed inappropriately, they would be limited as to how much they could charge.

Yeah. Well, I mean, you could do the same thing with an unsecured card. It would just be a matter of asking them to throttle the limit of what's available, but I get that most unsecured cards would want to set the limit higher than what you might want for the secured credit card.

So I don't have any problem with that. In terms of finding the best secured card, you know, it changes over time just depending on who has the best programs out there at the given time. And I like this idea, because you are capping your liability there, especially if any of the unsecured card companies give you a hard time about setting it perhaps as low as you want.

This would be a way to do that. So in terms of where to find the best secured card, Glenn, I'd give you a couple of websites. I'd look at nerdwallet.com. Every month, they rate the best secured credit cards, nerdwallet.com. And then creditkarma.com. Credit, K-A-R-M-A.

They do the same thing. And I think between the two of them, you can find one with no annual fee. You know, that would be a great starting point. You could also check with your local bank.

But I think for the purpose you're describing, this would be a great solution to be able to link that to your credit card, keep your risk very low, and still be able to do business online. Thanks for your call today. 800-525-7000. Give us a call.

We'll be right back. We're so glad you've chosen to spend some time with us this afternoon on MoneyWise Live. This is biblical wisdom for your financial journey.

I'm Rob West. Here as we head toward the end of the year, it's a great opportunity to think about our giving. What are we going to do with the resources we have as we head toward 1231? And perhaps there's an opportunity to accelerate our giving. Well, we'd certainly love and be grateful for you to keep MoneyWise Media in mind with your year-end giving.

This is certainly a time of year where we're planning for next year and the gifts that come in between now and 1231 really help as we make plans for how we can serve you in the new year. It's quick and easy to give online. Just head to our website, MoneyWiseLive.org. Click the donate button. You can give securely, and it is tax-deductible MoneyWise as a not-for-profit ministry. We'd be grateful. Again, MoneyWiseLive.org. Just click the donate button. Let's head back to the phones.

Marsha is in Tennessee. Marsha, how can I assist you? Hi. I have a question about my retirement. Last month, I retired quite abruptly due to a COVID mandate that I didn't want to partake in.

So I retired. I'm 69 years old, and I would like to know what I should do with my 403b. I had thought about just taking it and putting it into the bank, and I had a friend to tell me that that was not such a good idea because I wouldn't get any interest on it.

Yeah, very good. Well, I would be looking to roll it over to an IRA, Marsha. It's not a taxable event, but you will have to decide before you do that kind of the approach you want to take with the investments. Do you want to manage it yourself? You could certainly do that. You could avail yourself of some resources like you might find at SoundMindInvesting.org, our good friends who would provide you with some mutual fund suggestions and help you position that portfolio. A second option would be to look at perhaps one of the robo-advisors where through exchange-traded funds, you'd basically have what's called an indexed portfolio. It's just a passive approach to investing that mirrors the broad market indexes with a mix of stock indexes and bond indexes that's appropriate for your age and risk tolerance. And you just capture the broad moves of the market, and the long-term trend historically has always been up even though it does ebb and flow along the way.

There might be a period of a year or two where the market's down, but if you just look at the last dozen years as an example, you can see how the market does move to higher territory over time, and you would capture those moves. And then the third approach, which kind of comes into play around $75,000, would be to have an investment professional actually take responsibility for making the buy and sell decisions for you based on what God's doing in your life, your goals and objectives, but building and maintaining the investment portfolio on your behalf. Which sounds like it might be what you're looking for of those three. Okay. Would I roll over using the same company that my 403b is through, or should I get a different company?

Not necessarily. I would, again, once you decide how you want to approach it, do you want to do it yourself, do you want more of a passive approach, or do you want an advisor to handle it, that would determine where you roll it, but you would typically roll it outside. Now, you might find if you're with one of the low-cost providers like Vanguard or something that you'd want to leave it right there and just move it within the firm, but typically you would roll it out to a new what's called custodian, which is where the account lives, and then you would deploy the investment strategy from that new custodian, whether that's something you direct as in choosing those investments or whether that's something an advisor does for you. So I might start with connecting with an advisor there locally, Marcia. You can find a certified kingdom advisor. I'd actually interview two or three there locally on our website, MoneyWiseLive.org.

Just click find a CKA. And this professional would help you not only look at where you're at and kind of where you're headed in terms of what are your needs financially speaking and what lifestyle do you want to maintain and how does this portfolio fit into that, but also talk to you about the various investment strategies that could be taken. And then if you decided to move ahead with one of those advisors, they would tell you which firm to roll the money over into in your new IRA and your name. But to answer your question, you would likely roll it out to a new institution. I think the question at hand is, do you want to manage it yourself or do you want to turn it over to somebody to do that for you? Right. Okay.

And do you have a ballpark figure of how much a CKA would charge? I mean, is that something that goes on? It would be based on the assets under management. Did you say this is about $75,000? Yes.

Okay. So you would probably typically expect to pay about one and a half percent a year. So about $1,100 on the $75,000 account. That would be the typical fee that would be charged for the management. But again, that's if you choose to have somebody actually take responsibility for managing this for you. You can do it much less expensive if you decide to do it yourself with more of a passive approach.

You might be looking at something as low as $250 a year or something like that. But I think that's kind of the next step and I would look to find an advisor locally. Again, on our website, MoneyWiseLive.org, just click Find a CKA. We appreciate your call today. Let's head to Oklahoma where Catherine is located. Hi, Catherine. How can I assist you? Hi there. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. My husband is retiring on Friday and he spent 23 years at the same company. And we have – he's 73 and I'm 72. I'm stay-at-home. We have $625,000 in a trust in an annuity. But we still owe $110,000 on our home. We just got through paying $41,000 in income taxes this year. We went to a CPA because we don't want to have to go through that anymore. But I'm real concerned about not having our house paid off. We get $800 a month from the trust to make our house payment. Is it better to just go ahead and bite the bullet and take the money out of the annuity and pay off the house?

Or is it better to just wait? I don't like not having my house paid for. Yeah. No, I completely get that. And you said, Catherine, you're both retired, correct?

You're not planning on working any longer. No. My husband is – well, we're in the ministry. Okay. And we live in rural Oklahoma. We're in the ministry. But he has held a full-time job.

Sure. But the pay in the ministry is very low right now. We're just working for the – we go to horse shows in Tulsa. And we do the Sunday services at the horse shows. Oh, neat. And we worship.

Oh, that's great. And then we – so that's just kind of a ministry. So we forget to take an offering half the time.

It's just something that we love doing for the Lord, and then he fills the pulpit a lot for different pastors in the area. But we – I don't like not having my house paid for. But my husband, you know, we're nervous. We don't know – we don't want to really take the $625,000 out that we have set aside for our retirement.

So I'm – which is the best to do? Well, you know, I think ultimately – I mean there's the financial and then the non-financial considerations. So from a financial standpoint, you know, you could make the argument that you can do better by continuing to pay on this mortgage and keep that money invested on a tax-deferred basis over the long haul.

But that's just one part of the equation. I think the non-financial side is exactly what you just said, and that is the peace of mind that comes from knowing you're unencumbered and that you own your home free and clear. And the practical benefit to that is that it just reduces your monthly need. And so, you know, you all can live, you know, very comfortably and modestly on, you know, less income just because your largest expense goes away at that point. And as you said, you have a conviction that you'd like to be debt-free.

And so I think, you know, for that reason, I would certainly move in this direction if you and your husband are on the same page about it. The one consideration you might want to factor in though, Catherine, is just the timing on this. If you decided to do this, I would work with your CPA or if not, find one who can determine the tax implications of this on the front end. So that you may want to spread this over two tax years, for instance, so that if you're increasing your taxable income, you're doing that in two or three pieces. So you're not bumping inadvertently a portion of this up into a higher tax bracket by taking a major withdrawal in a single tax year. So I think that might be one consideration and then just looking at any considerations with regard to the insurance company that holds the annuity contract just to make sure you understand what's possible in terms of pulling that money out. So I'd probably, as you find that CPA, if you haven't already, go ahead and do that.

Talk this over with him or her and make these plans. But I'm fully in favor of this idea that you want to be debt-free and that that would mean depleting a portion of your retirement assets. But in doing so, you would then have more margin that you would not be sending to the mortgage company every month and you'd get the added peace of mind that comes with it, okay?

Exactly. My husband wants to pay it off in five years, pay the house off. And our CPA told us we could take out an additional $19,000, but we can't take out any more than that or it'll throw us in the higher tax bracket.

Yeah, yeah. And so that may be the consideration is just to go and spread it out over the next five years so you're not paying unnecessary taxes. And I think that's what you guys need to figure out. And maybe there's a compromise.

It's three years instead of five. I gotta run. We appreciate your call today. God bless you.

MoneyWise Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and MoneyWise Media. Thank you for being there today and for calling. This is such a privilege to be able to partner with you and share God's principles. Thank you to my team as well, Amy.

Thank you to Deb and Jim Henry as well, plus our call screeners. Come back and join us tomorrow. I'll be here. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.