Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, as usual, the number is 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call.

We've got one caller coming in. That is good. If you want to send me an email, you can do that as well.

That's easy. Just direct it to info at CARM.org, info at CARM.org, and put the subject line, radio comment, radio question, and we can get to it. Easy peasy stuff, good stuff. Also, and I don't do it very often, I didn't need to mention it, but we stay on the air by your support. If you like the show, if you do, if you like it and you want to see it continue, then please consider supporting us.

You just do that by going to CARM.org, forward slash donate, and everything it needs right there, and you can check it out. We ask $5 or $10 a month. That's about it.

We don't need a whole bunch, but we just need enough, and that's it. All right, all right, all right. So, let's just jump on the air, and let's get to Jermaine. Hey, Jermaine. Welcome, brother. You're on the air, man.

Hey, man. You know, today I was just kind of contemplating some Scripture, and I've heard some people kind of, you know, they make that old adage of life is not fair, and some have pointed to Christianity saying, well, look what's happened to some of your people. You know, if you really serve a God, then, you know, how come this happens?

That happens. But as I was looking through Scripture, I don't see anywhere that there's any guarantee that life is going to be fair or safe, or even that you're guaranteed to be happy. Would you have anything to say about that? Do the Scriptures actually speak on that? No.

No, they don't. So, when people say, well, God's not fair, I say, okay, what standard of fairness do you have? Are you in touch with a universal standard of moral right and wrong that's aside from God that everybody's supposed to be accountable to, even God, because you're the one judging him and saying he's not fair.

So, what's the standard that you've got? And, of course, I don't have one. So, I say, what you're doing is you're projecting your personal preferences, what you think God ought to be doing and how things ought to be, because of you. And that's prideful. But if you want God to be fair, shouldn't he judge you for your pride against him and your judgment against him?

But he doesn't right now. He's merciful to you. So, do you really want God to be fair or not? It's one of the ways I tackle him. I like that.

Okay, yeah, that's pretty good. I wouldn't want fair if I'm facing a righteous judge. No, I don't want to say or either. Well, the other part of that is, I mean, this, maybe this is a personal thing, but I've found that in my life by going through some unfairness and going through moments of unhappiness, it actually, for me, it drew me closer to God, because it had me really kind of longing for a fellowship with him and having me go through things, some of my own doing, but I found that my relationship with him actually deepened, and you find out this life is temporary anyway. You know, we have some pleasantries here in America, but ultimately being with him is the goal, and I find that life kind of pushes me towards that. So, if anything, maybe that's part of the plan. Yeah. And then we can think about, well, what's the greatest fairness?

You know, if we want to look at it, it's really expanded. Why is it that some people, like my wife, for example, she's going through a lot of pain because of an injury and because of her condition? Well, is that fair? Well, in that one sense, it's not fair, because Adam sinned, and long story short, here we are, she's suffering. And yet, on the other hand, if, you know, when she passed away, when we both, you know, we're all going to die, we're going to go face the Lord, maybe that suffering that she's gone through, where she's never denied Christ, never complained about it to the Lord, she's prayed for healing, we have prayed for healing, etc., and so that glorifies God greatly, and maybe her reward in heaven is far greater because of it. And, you know, a few years of pain and suffering is nothing compared to the eternal glory that can be received in his presence. So, you know, we can have questions that we can ask about things that don't seem fair, but maybe there's a greater purpose behind them, and we need to submit to the idea that that is a certain possibility, you know.

Okay, thank you for that. And I just wanted to say I really, I heard you speak of your wife, I really would encourage her and I hope she is able to testify one day because I think she would have a powerful testimony. I've been through that same issue myself where I was temporarily disabled, went from like picking up 500 pounds to couldn't pick up a basketball.

And it was very just, just you learned a lot of humility where I couldn't even use the bathroom, I'm assisted with my wife and my children had to help me and, you know, thank God I'm 80% better now, but I learned a lot through that and if it wasn't for him sustaining me, you know, I wouldn't be able to kind of speak favorably about my experience. So I just, I hope she's able to testify one day. I've been trying to get her on the radio now for a couple of years. She's super afraid of speaking in public. But of all the people I know, she is the one who is suffering the most of everybody I've known and experienced. She's in the most pain constantly. And anyway, so you know, I just ask people to pray for her. We need a healing for her. And if God chooses not to, then I'm hoping either way, but she gets on the radio and people actually call in and ask her questions. I think it'd be incredibly powerful testimony, but I'm working on her.

I'm working on her, trying to get her to do that. Yeah. All right.

Well, I'll be keeping that in play. All right, brother. Appreciate it. You're awesome, man. All right.

Thank you very much. All right. That was a good call. Good stuff. Let's get to Jamal from New York. Jamal, welcome here on the air. Hey man. Hope you're doing well today, sir. Thank you for taking my call by God's grace. Doing okay.

Hanging in there. It's what you got. Good deal.

Good deal. Wanted to ask you about how far Christians can push to have Christianity in the government or society, or it could be seen as a theocracy, a theocracy. My definition is when God is in control and ruling, and he would do that to a prophet or prophets who would then give the words to the people and then say, this is how we're going to rule.

This is what it is. A religious system, uh, like Sharia, which is the Arabic word for law is not Sharia law. It says Sharia, but you know, Sharia law works for people who understand it. So that would be a, um, a religiously dominated governmental system.

And of course it's Islam. And so we can see the oppression and foolishness that goes along with that. Would Christians be any better? Well, I think so. I think it'd be much better. Would it be perfect?

Absolutely not. Uh, where if true Christians were in power, true Christians would not be taking bribes, wouldn't be doing behind the scenes backdoor deals for their own benefit and going into an office, well, making $150,000 a year and coming out four years later with multimillionaires, they wouldn't be happening like that. You'd have people who went with biblical principles and they would not be supporting homosexuality, DEI, woke crap, or the promotion of homosexuality. I mean, uh, all this, this stuff, uh, of socialism and communism. So it'd be a different system. Now, does it have to be that everybody has to be Christian?

No, but it'd be things would run better if they were, they were. But then we have to ask the question, what happens when they get an absolute power? Let's just say that much of Christians. Let's say there's 500 people in power in the United States and they're all godly people, very godly people.

Well, then things are going to work very well. Mistakes will be made. I mean, the people are people and then, uh, they get replaced by people who aren't, aren't Christians. And this is what happened in the early, uh, constitutional situation in our country. The 13 colonies originally had stipulations, I think all of them, except one that in order to, um, occupy a political office, you had to be a member and good standing of a local church. And so they took those, those requirements out.

Yeah, it's, it's absolutely true. And the reason is, is because they believe that the true Christians understood who they were serving. They were serving God. And they'd be afraid of what God would be saying.

So a man who, or a woman, but a man who'd be in a political position of power. And someone says, Hey, I'll give you this much money if you just go this way, look that way. And he's going to say, I'm not going to do that.

My Lord's looking at me. And so that kind of stuff, but now the Dems have been in, in, um, in power and our country was, isn't, has been, and still is in distress because of them, because they've taken backdoor deals, um, you know, money laundering schemes, uh, insider trading. I mean, it's obvious. So, you know, uh, I think country would be better off that way. But, you know, I say, I have a saying, if you want to mess something up, you just need two things, just two, people and time. And that's it. So even, you know, unfortunately, that's true. So when the Catholic church was in political control, many, many, many hundreds of thousand people died under the inquisition.

Oh, wow. Oh, it's true. You read Fox's book of martyrs. You read how the, the Catholic church was persecuting and murdering people. And it was absolute true. It's absolutely true.

Well, I've had Protestants say to me, well, we wouldn't have done that. How do you know? How do you know? Right. Exactly. Yeah. We hope we wouldn't be, uh, evil like them and tie up, um, people and bash their brains.

I can't say too much. Good children might be listening and do the evils of putting their faces in cages and rats on the, you know, open a door and they come in, you know, just stuff like this. So, uh, but Christians would Protestants do it. You can be a Protestant in name, but not in heart. You can be a true believer in your heart. That's one thing, but people often come in to political power and say, come in to political power by misusing religious freedoms.

And then they get in and they abuse their position and they know how to schmooze and say what they want to say to retain power. And this is, uh, uh, ultimately it's demonic. So it's a, it's a tough one.

It's a tough one. Uh, there is a movement, Christian nationalism, which is growing. And from what I understand, where it's to make the United States a perfectly Christian, uh, um, nation. And I have to study it some more, but with the idea of, of old Testament type laws that scares the bejeevers. Yeah. Oh yeah. The old Testament type laws where you're like people and stuff like that, right?

Yeah. You know, they'd be killing people for, uh, doing various things. Um, and it was, yeah, it would scare me because of my own history, I've got things, you know, and, uh, and how many Christians, how many Christians have got a history of, Oh my goodness, they don't want anybody to know about it. And the redeemed now put in this law.

And if they can find it, you've got to be executed or jailed or whatever it is. You know, it's, it's, it's gets into the issue of legalism. And here's something else about this. I know of a church here. I've been told by, by attendees, I used to recommend this church over the radio, but no more.

And this church, uh, has gradually moved more towards the reform theology, which is fine. And we'll be back after the break. I'll tell you what's happening as an example of something of that. Okay. So hold on buddy.

We're going to break. Hey folks, be right back after these messages. And if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276.

Jamal, are you still there? Yes, sir. All right. So what I was saying is, is this is a micro example, micro, uh, example of, of how things can go as a church. Uh, this is not going to name names or anything like that.

This is what I was told by some people. And so it's a good example. And, um, I trust that those individuals are telling me the truth. So this church, which I've known people and the pastor and stuff, um, are becoming more Sabbatarian such that you're now obligated to not do certain things on the Sabbath and do certain things on the Sabbath. And the people, um, are finding it difficult to follow the law about what to do and what not to do in the Sabbath. And they're being frustrated and feeling bad and guilty and it's causing resentment. So this is just minor, minor thing. And, but it's a good example of what happens when people get authoritarian and it's easy.

It's very easy to try and be more biblical and more spiritual. And then we got to put this rule in and now you've got to put that rule in. Well, now you've got to put a rule in to back up that second rule, but now you've got to put a rule or two rules to back up the third rule.

And this is what happens. And, you know, the Bible says, Oh, where is that verse? It's a great verse. I think maybe here, let me see. I'm guessing. Uh, it's, uh, Oh, I found it.

Yeah. 1st Timothy 1.9, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious for the ungodly and sinners for the holy and profane for those who killed their fathers, mothers or murderers. So the law is for the ungodly. Well, if we are Christians and we've died to the law with Christ, Romans 6, 6, Romans 6, 8, 1st Corinthians 15, 22, we've died to that law that we're not under any law or obligation on the Sabbath either.

So if I were a pastor, for example, in someone, the issue of, of they say, well, what should we do in the Sabbath? I'd say, rest, rest, do what you got to do to rest. That's all.

Yeah. Well, what's well, what's rest for you? Uh, for me, it's going fishing. It's going bowling. Uh, it's watching the game. It's just rest.

Okay. Then rest. You know, for me, you know, I work six days a week on Sundays. I try not to do any karma business, but I, I will go shopping and I'll go out and get groceries. That's not work to me because I'm resting from, from my work.

Yeah. I'm resting from my work. I have no problem going out and getting groceries and cooking a meal for my wife or, or even go to a movie on a Sunday night. It doesn't bother me. I go late at night, so I don't have anybody else bother me because they always get, they always get the package of candy that is the most crinkly that they can possibly get with the packaging and sit right next to me and the entire empty theater. And, uh, that always happens. And, uh, yeah.

So they bring their cell phones out and the light all that. Yeah. Uh-huh. I literally did way off topic here, but I remember I was in a theater once by myself, like, this is it going to go late at night on an off day. And, uh, this guy comes in there and seriously sat right behind me, jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, jump.

Like, uh, so I had to move into a corner of the theater just to enjoy the movie. Uh, anyway, that's me being whiny. So anyway, the whole point is this, that, um, I think that we need to understand that the Sabbath is made for the person, not the, uh, that it's for us to rest in and we rest from our labors. CARM is my labor. So I try to do any CARM stuff, uh, on Sundays, but I don't know.

I'm not even legalistic about that. Sometimes I will, if I need to for something up, but under 10, I just watch TV all day. That's me resting, watching aliens movies. Now we're really resting aliens movies. That's right. That's how they ought to, they ought to, ought to rest my way by watching aliens movies. That's the way to rest on a Sunday. That's what I say.

Somehow I'm right there with you brother. Um, so not to take up too much, uh, too much more of your time. Uh, I just recently bought a book by us. Dennis is, uh, called a fool's talk.

Do you have any opinions on us Guinness in that book? It's about the democratic party. Well, that's what I would think. I think the democratic party is an evil party, a terrorist, a pseudo terrorist organization. That's the party of the anti-Christ.

Um, that's, that's, yeah, that's full stock. But, uh, what's that? I say it is hard to argue against the democratic party, not being a part of lunacy. Um, I actually try to find some, I guess, inroads or something or some redeemable qualities out of that party.

It's hard to find them. Um, now I'm pretty sure there's some good people in there. Unfortunately, they're acquiescing their position and power to the extreme left of their party. If they want to seem more sane, they need to speak up against the extreme left in their party.

That's right. And maybe they should stand up and applaud when fraud in the billions of dollars is exposed. Maybe they should applaud for that.

Or maybe they should applaud for when, um, you know, the illegals who murdered a girl are deported. That's worth applauding for, but no, no, no. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Um, yeah. I'll add just one more thing and I'll get back to asking this.

Um, I'm going to use your platform for just a quick second. When you had the kid from brain cancer come up there and get that award for, you know, being, uh, honorary secret service, the Democrats didn't applaud. That was bad enough.

They could at least plot it for that. But then you had Rachel, Rachel Maddow with MSNBC come up saying that was a sad day and don't politicize that. That was complete garbage. Then you had, uh, Nicole Watson or whatever, the other commentators saying, well, that's good for the kid and everything. And I apologize if this is a little insensitive, but this is not vulgar. It's just bad. What she said. She said, Nicole Watson or whatever her name is, uh, congratulations for the kid, but I hope he doesn't grow up in suicides himself for being a police officer.

We'll have to defend himself against January six people that worked for Donald Trump. I said, how bad and how terrible do you have to be to make that kind of statement? That's a good example of, of this, what you call stupidification to stupidity. Cause it's like, there it is. There you go. Oh yeah. Yes.

Yeah. I like it when I forgot who said that, uh, what was it? Said, uh, um, Elon Musk was stupid. I remember he's not smart or something.

It's like, what? He's not. He's not. Wow.

Who would've thought? You know, the guy started like 14 companies, you know, he's heading on towards Mars, you know? Yeah. He's nuts.

Wow. The Dems just, I don't understand. And like another thing, I know people listening who are Dems are upset with me, but I don't care. I don't understand how any true Christian could be a true Democrat because the democratic and I wrote this article, it's on a website, uh, which Democrat, which publican, which party would the Antichrist belong to?

It's definitely the democratic party. Definitely. Okay. We've got to go.

There's the music buddy. Hey, we'll talk to you later. All right. See you later. Bye. All right.

God bless. Hey folks, be right back after these messages. We'll talk to Geno from South Carolina. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. We're at the bottom of the hour.

If you want to give me a call 877-207-2276. And yes, I did say that. I'll say it again. A true Christian. I don't see how you could be a true Democrat. The democratic party is, it stands for ungodliness. And I did write an article. It's on CARM, uh, which political party would the Antichrist belong to? And so I laid out the, the premises of what the Antichrist stands for from scripture, which party fits them.

It's pretty obvious. So anyway, let's get to, uh, Geno from South Carolina. Geno, welcome here on the air.

Hey Matt, thank you. And it's great to hear your calming voice. And, uh, I guess I would say to you, it's needed at this time for me. Personally, I'm on the, uh, so, you know, I'm on the, uh, a verbal coach, uh, because I'm in need of, uh, your counsel. Okay.

Well, what do you got? So here's what's going on. Can you hear me?

Yes, I can. Okay. Great, great, great, Matt. So, uh, Matt, here's what's happening. I'm, um, I want to say I'm theologically sound. Oh, by the way, you and I spoke once before and we had a great conversation about, uh, free will.

And, um, I wouldn't mind doing that again with you, uh, sometime because I'm, uh, I'm, uh, let's just, I'm more educated now than I was at that time. But here's what's happening, Matt. So I'm getting myself into, um, into snags.

I'm getting myself into, uh, trouble here, there, and everywhere. It seems to me that most of the Christian church is here because I've been to a number of them, most of them. And, um, and well, let's just say that the preaching is such that I think that it's, it's, it's, it's somewhat, um, changing the gospel. And what I'll refer to is, let's just say, um, people who are, uh, making a God of their own understanding or, um, making a God up that suits them. And it's pretty much being preached and it's pretty much being, uh, allowed.

And in other words, uh, pastors are not correcting their, uh, congregation. And I find myself doing exactly that and I'm getting myself in a, in a test of a lot of trouble. And the, my, my, my big problem with all this is, is that after I have, uh, I'll call it an altercation, but it's, that's, that's a stretch. You know, I'm going a bit too far with that word, but after I have a situation where I'm correcting and I guess say scolded, um, uh, for my action, I, um, I, I feel, I feel at that time, uh, for days that I feel separated from God. I'm not sure what's occurring though. So, um, was there a question in there? Okay. So I went to a church and I'm going to use this one particular church.

I've been to a bunch of them because I'm trying to, I have been trying to find a home and I, but now I don't think it's possible. And as I get to into the Sunday schools, the men's Bible studies and different studies and whatnot, or, or the preaching just that's coming, uh, right from the pulpit. I I'm hearing that, um, it's, well, let's just say works. It would be one working for your salvation would be one issue that I would, um, be much against, but I'm hearing from the congregation that they believe.

Let me, let me jump in. Are you saying you're attending or you know of churches, they're supposed to be Christian that are teaching works for righteousness or salvation? Is there, there are sure. And if it's not being taught, what I want to tell you is that the congregation believes it and I'm getting this from the Bible studies and whatnot.

So they're believing in, um, uh, maintaining, they believe they have self salvation, but now they're of the belief they have to maintain it. Okay. And, um, so when you, or do you offer, uh, let's just say a reputation of that or a challenge to that. Is that what you're saying? You need to react negatively.

Is that it? Yeah. So I've had a bunch of situations where I, so just, so, uh, I'll say it another way. I've had different situations with, with different people as well as pastors. As a matter of fact, I've, I've, um, in a way, uh, in a good way, called out a couple of pastors and they're either unable, unwilling, or both, uh, unwilling or unable to call to, uh, support their positions. So I'm going to especially refer to the Armenian position, but I think that they even take the Armenian position further, which is then they have to maintain their salvation of my understanding of Armenianism is that, you know, you, you're making the choice before regenerate. Yep.

Go on. What I do when I encounter people who say that make the Christians not Catholics or, or Orthodox, but they say they maintain their position. They, you know, they have to do good things and not do bad things. You know, I say, okay, so let me ask you, are you saying then that you maintain your salvation position with God through your goodness? That's the question I ask them. And the idea is to show them that, that they are prideful and being exceedingly arrogant because anybody who would say that, yeah, they, they keep themselves right with the infinitely holy God by their goodness, by, well, not committing murder and adultery.

Okay. But we are regenerate and we work against those things. And so we don't maintain our place with God by not murdering somebody. And we certainly don't maintain our position by what, 12 minutes of prayer a day. What, and one of the things I'll do with them is I'll ask them, okay.

Cause I usually am online when I'm talking to people like that. And I say, have my fingers on my keyboard. And I'd like you to give me a list, you know, two, three, four, five things to overcome of the things you have to do to keep yourself right with God. Okay. Go ahead and tell me what's number one. And I'll ask them and I say, well, you got to continue to believe. I say, okay, continue to believe.

What's number two. Well, you can't. And then they give me these things. Once they say they can't do certain things, I say, okay. So you can't do those things. What about doing the good things? What, what are the, what's the list. Got to go to church.

You have to read your Bible. You gotta be honest. Well, what is it? And invariably it'll give me a list of things. And I say, okay, how's that working out for you?

Are you performing those? And then here's something else I'll ask them. I'll say, what's the standard of righteousness. Is it your heart or is it the Lord Jesus? Well, at this point you're going to say, well, it's Jesus. I said, okay. So then why is it that these things that you're talking about are the things that come from your own heart?

And why is that? Those are not the things said by Christ. I'll say, well, Paul says, for example, 1 Corinthians 6, 9, you know, the homosexuals, effeminate kidnappers, murderers will not inherit the kingdom of God. I go, yeah, that's right. And said, and some were such, such were some of you, but they're no longer like that because we're redeemed. So I say, you know, and I say to some of them, I've actually done this before, you know, having a conversation, they keep defending that they keep themselves right with God. I say, could you do me a quick favor? Just quick, quick favor.

And they go, what? And I said, I'd like you to hear it on the microphone. If you could pat yourself on the back, just pat yourself on the back. How good you are. And just how good you are. And you, you by your sincerity and your goodness, keep yourself right with the infinitely holy God. That's amazing that you can do that. That's take a bow, pat yourself on the back. Yeah. Yeah. And Oh, by the way, uh, let's see if you can walk on water next.

Cause I'm curious if you can do that too. Well, Matt, coming from you, it sounds so much better, but I, I, I will tell you, I've, I've, I've realized, uh, things, uh, things, uh, like, uh, it is very prideful what, you know, what I've said that to people, how prideful to think that, um, you can help God in your salvation. It's the miracle because it is the miracle of God. And so many, many things like that, but I, um, I don't get, I don't seem to get through to anyone. So I'm, I'm pretty much, I decided today, uh, pardon?

I'm sorry. You haven't gotten through, but your words are truthful. You don't worry about, you say something one time and nobody responds. It takes three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 times before somebody goes, wait a minute, he's got a point there. So you're in that position because God appointed you in that position and it's worth being, you gotta decide to do that, but, or not, but that's what it is. And do it by asking questions. I ask people to list out how good you got to be. I just, you tell me, I'm not going to tell you you can't.

I want you to tell me how you can, because I'm not going to be negative to them. Oh, okay. So, okay.

Well then tell me the things you got to do. Cause I don't know what those things are. So the, that way it's, it's less offensive.

It's a little more slick and you can get in there and you can, um, hopefully open their eyes after a while and say, well, wait a minute. Are you doing these things? Well, I'm trying.

So you're not doing them. Well, I'm trying. God knows that I'm trying. Well, he knows you're trying, which means you're not doing it right. That's what trying means to me. So you're not doing it for your standard of righteousness. Now we'll judge you. Isn't that the case?

Because if the Bible says by your own standard, you'll be judged, Matthew 7. Okay. Well, I don't know if I'm keeping you, Matt, but hold on.

We're going to bring most of these. Hold on. We got to break. So hold on.

Hold on through to the break, buddy. All right. We'll get back to you, but you're not holding me.

It's okay. So stay tuned. Hey folks, be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show.

We have three open lines. If you want to give me a call 877-207-2276. Gino, are you still there? Yes, sir. Okay. I got some scriptures for you too, before you go, okay, to run by these people. Sure. But go ahead. When you're ready. Well, I did want to tell you that when I've confronted some people, and again, I've even confronted two pastors, and I've even had Christians sitting next to me in a church and tell me that the, well, we can't trust in the Bible.

The Bible is written by men, and these are Christians. And I guess the other thing I really, yeah, that's how, that's how tough it's been. And then I've truly tried to, I believe in my heart that I'm trying to help these people. But I guess it's in my personality that I come across the wrong way.

So I end up in, you know, very, very civilized debates, but they're not good conversations. They're, they're a little strenuous, or, you know, a little, you know, but so I've even, I've even lost some Calvinists. I've, I approached a guy who's very, very sharp, he's a very smart guy, and he's, and he makes the claim to be a Calvinist. But when I took him into determinism, he, I lost him, he won't even talk to me.

You mean determinism, because generally determinism negates free will, and Calvinism doesn't deny free will, it just defines it biblically, so I'm a little confused there. Sure, so you and I have had this, this conversation, it was, and it was great, too, by the way, the conversation I had with you, and I'm, I haven't hung my hat on it yet, yet. And that, but truly, I'm, I'm very close to being a determinist, say, like John Piper, I'm at the maybe not even at his level yet. But I'm, I'm pretty much a determinist, I just don't see much free will or any chance of free will. But if you want to get into that, if you want to get into that, I'll be happy to.

Yeah, we could talk about that. But let me give you some verses, and then we can talk about that issue, because there are some problems with it, and we can go through it. So two of the verses I think you should look at is Matthew 7, 2. Okay, Matthew 7, 2, for in the way you judge, you'll be judged, and by your standard of measure, be measured to you. If you talk to them, and they are using their own standard of righteousness, their own ability to be good, then that's the standard they're going to be judged by. And then you cross-reference it with Matthew 7, 22 and 23. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, we did not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles, and I'll declare to them, I never knew you, depart from me, you practice lawlessness. So they were appealing to the good things that they did in their faith for their salvation, and you're a condemned. Matthew 7, 22, 23.

So it's just a place to go and check, check things out. Okay. Sure.

Sure. Now, about the term, so be up this before we get, I want to thank you very much, because I really feel awful after I have and I did have a situation today where I was trying to help this man, but anyways, you've helped me already know, just make me feel like I'm doing the right thing I do well, just so you know, I, I share the faith with everybody, with everybody. I can't go to Lowe's, McDonald's or anywhere without talking to someone, but anyways, sure, I'm, I'm very happy to talk about free will. What do you want, what do you want to yell at me about, Matthew? Okay, well, let me ask you this, then.

We had nobody waiting, and we've got about 10 minutes left or so. What are they free from? What's free will?

What are they free from? Well, so if you're going to define, if we're going to define free will, we could define it. If you could go back in time, could you do something different?

Is that how you would, would that work for you? Yeah, I understand that argument, and it has to do with possibility of counterfactuals. And for example, one of the arguments that this particular issue is raised is the man who put the nail, nail, the nail into the, the wrist of Christ. Could he have done differently? In one sense, yes. In another sense, no.

Because we have to have two different senses. And if God had determined that he'd do it, and he brought him to that place to do it, then he would have brought him in his freedom to be able to do that. And he couldn't do anything differently because God arranged everything perfectly for him to do it, but he was still free inside of it. So, and so in that sense, well, no, he couldn't do anything different because it was ordained and arranged by God. On the other hand, well, yeah, he could have done something different because he's a free will agent.

He could have done it with three strikes instead of five, or he could have purposely missed, or he could have chosen to get sick that day. There's certain things that he has a freedom to be able to do. Okay. Yep. Now, are you familiar with efficient versus proximate causation? Because in them is culpability.

Well, yeah, I'm, I get it. I'm not, I think I get the deficient or the the culpability I think I get, let me let me run it by. So culpability would mean we are free will that that way we can be culpable for our transgressions. Yes, culpability deals with a voluntary decision to do something. So if someone holds a gun to your head and forces you to use a credit card illegally, and you do that, you're not responsible because you're being forced.

If you take that same credit card and you just misuse it, you know, someone else's card and you do it illegally. Now you're responsible because you freely chose to act. It wasn't forced upon you.

So generally speaking, philosophically, what we understand culpability to be is the responsibility for your actions based on something that was related to you alone, not being forced externally. Yes, I get that. So Matt, let me ask you this. So we are God's creation, correct?

Yes. And we are. And we are God's plan. I mean, his plan is for us to be his church.

We it's certainly not the squirrels. I mean, the squirrels are in his plan, because everything is in his plan. But we are we are the focus of God's plan. So that would so I'm going to say to you, that means God uses us, he guides us as we pray in the morning, please God, today, let me do your will only your will.

Okay, great. Why are we saying look, God, let me do your will, because we want God to steer us guide us and make us do his will. So let's just say that today, God wants me to go to McDonald's at at 315, bump into somebody, say, Excuse me, and then I witness to them, and they come to the Lord that day. So God doesn't speak to us audibly. So what happens is God is going to speak to you. Okay, I can't forget to speak to you.

Well, yeah, you don't hear his voice. But you will think that you need to go to McDonald's at three o'clock. And you start writing to McDonald's at three o'clock, because you think you want with those french fries. When you go in there, you think you're gonna go to this. So you don't know none of us know when God is using it.

So that could be even right now. And it could be 24 hours a day free will and determination. I'm waiting for Well, then there's no well, there's no free will there. You're doing exactly what God wants. You're not doing what you want. You're not doing anything free agent to define free will. Right?

Well, I just I did a minute ago. So free will would mean not that where you couldn't go back in time and do something different because God made you do it that way. You can't do it differently. But who's the one choosing that you that whatever color shirt you were? Who chose that? You sure this choice there? So yeah, but hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You chose?

Okay, right. Did God force you to choose? No.

Okay, no, I got trapped once. So you're the one who chose what? So you're the one who chose what shirt to wear? So were you free in that choice? No, in his about that, but wait, wait, wait, wait, we have a problem. We have a problem.

You have a problem. I said, you're the one who chose. Were you free in the choice?

He said no, but that's a contradiction. You know, you're it's your choice. If it's your choice, and you're also it's not your choice, but you're not free. You can't have it not be your choice and be your choice at the same time.

Okay. So if you freely chose, it cannot also be the case that you did not really choose. So if you chose, it means you did the choosing. So how could you say that you did the choosing, but it was forced on you?

Either? Well, well, that's all right. So I think you you've confused me a bit there. And I'm but so let me throw this into the mix. And maybe this will straighten out that issue.

I'm not sure, but maybe it will. So we are made by God, and our nature is given to us by God, you will choose to to what your nature has been given to. So let's use use the if you want to go with the shirt, the blue shirt or the red shirt, you want the red shirt. You don't know why you want the red shirt, but you cannot make yourself want the blue shirt. When you want a red shirt, you can make well, you can do it.

You will you can you can do it, but then you're but then you you've only conceded conceded to your want to prove that you can do it. Because what you're talking about, you're talking about property dualism here with the soul is a product of the physical brain. And that it is restricted to certain wants that are generated by chemicals and stuff within itself.

And so therefore it has no freedom. So that's No, no, I know. I don't mean that. I don't mean that. Yeah, but I don't mean that at all.

Okay, let me see this. What did Jesus have free will? Of course, he's God. Okay, yeah, Jesus said he could do nothing of himself unless it's something he sees the Father doing john 519. So I have free will. Well, because that's the question first.

No, that's not fair, man. Have how can he have free will, as you say, if he also can do nothing of himself? Because he's a three part God. We can't even understand that.

So it's it's not it's not a fair question. He's not a three part because he's not God because that that's because we also know Jesus. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, you're getting all excited. So okay, slow down. Okay. He's not a three part God.

So that's one thing. But he says in john 530, I can do nothing of my own initiative. So does he have free will? He could do nothing of his own initiative.

It's, again, I think it's an unfair analogy to try to analyze. I'm just reading the scriptures. We only got like 45 seconds left. Well, it but he said he's free. Well, I'll call you. I'll call you in a week or so.

And we do it when we have more time. I'd love to have Okay, here, think about this. Okay, this is john 530.

Okay, remember john 530. But also remember, Jesus has two natures in one person, the attributes of both natures are ascribed to him as one person. So you say he has free will, which I agree. But he also says he could do nothing of his own initiative. But free will is a definition of being able to do yourself by your own initiative. So now I have an answer for this.

But I want you to think if you say Jesus has free will, how can he also be the not have free will by not doing his own initiative? You see, they could ask for that question. Where's the music? So we enjoy the conversation. But give me a call in a few days.

We'll talk. Okay, buddy. All right. I really did.

Yeah, I'm back on this map. Thank you. A lovely man. Thank you, sir. All right, man. Talk to you later. Hey, folks. Hope you enjoyed that conversation. There's an answer to what I was suggesting. But another time. God bless. Have a great evening. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Another program powered by the Truth Network.