Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you want to call me, the number is 877-207-2276.

Also, you can, if interested, you can send me an email to info at karm.org. In the subject line, please put in radio comment or radio question, and then we can get to it sometime when we're slow. Usually, I try to get them on Fridays. Today's date is Tuesday. Wow, it felt like a Thursday. I don't know why.

Man, it felt like a Thursday to me. So, that tells you right there. Okay, I think that's it. Oh, we had a caller coming in.

We kind of lost him. And we'll see what happens there. I've got a debate I'm supposed to be in on unconditional election on the Friday after Thanksgiving.

And I still don't know where it's supposed to be, what the venue is, what arrangements there are. I really don't know, and I've got to figure it out. So, an unconditional election.

Does God predestinate people based on, or elect them for salvation based on foreseen whatever it is in them or not? That's basically what it comes down to. So, we'll really begin with that. We'll see if it's going to happen. I'm assuming it's going to. I don't have any problem with it.

I just need to know details. And one thing's for sure, I know who it's against, I know the group, and I will not trust their moderators. If they have a moderator, I won't trust them.

And we'll see. All right, let's get on the air with Jan from North Carolina. Jan, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Mr. Slick. I call you a lot when I don't get the right answer from my pastor, or an answer that doesn't seem complete. This may be a simple question.

It's a simplistic question. But, why, when Jesus was resurrected, there was three instances when they didn't recognize him. Why were they not recognizing him? Mary thought he was the gardener. He walked with them on the road, and they didn't recognize him.

Why? In Luke 24, I think around verse 10, I'm not sure, it says their eyes were beheld from seeing him. And it wasn't until after he broke bread that they recognized him. There's something about breaking the bread in the fellowship.

All right, that's one thing. The other thing is, if you go to John 20, 25 through 28, you'll see that Jesus retained the crucifixion wounds. His, you know, put your hand into my side, put your finger into my hand, he said to Thomas. All right, that means he retained the crucifixion wounds, and part of them were being beaten about the face. He was beaten. So his beard was plucked out and beaten, which means you're going to swell. So, here's the thing, I remember.

And plus he's not going to look the same without his beard, but what about the voice is what I was thinking. Well, his voice could have been affected too by physical trauma. When I was 19, I was in a very serious car accident, and almost lost my life, and I took two years to recover. And I still remember to this day, I had a face injury, and my friends would tell him this, he'd go, well, that explains a lot.

So I had this injury to my face, and my face swelled up. Right. And I could still, to this second, see one of my friends go into the door of the hospital, into my room, look at me, and then keep going because he didn't recognize me.

Okay. So you're saying a lot of it was discouraging, the scourging and the plucking of the beard and things like that, but then they didn't recognize his voice, but that could have been a change as well, you're saying? It could have been. There's a fact you'd think he'd recognize his voice, but also, you've got to understand, people can sound similar to other people.

Of course, my voice is pretty distinct, but a lot of people have similar voices. Well, they weren't expecting to see him either. They weren't expecting him. I mean, they weren't away, but didn't know what to expect as far as him returning, I'm sure. Well, right. And so, in the morning, he's showing himself to them in the early morning.

They're not much late. So, you know, his voice could have echoed off of something. They could have been distraught, not hearing them right. There's all kind of variables there.

And I guess Mary was very consumed with grief when she thought he might have been the gardener. Where have you born him? Tell me and I'll go and get him, this kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, that makes perfect sense. You know, it makes perfect sense. I always like to get the answer.

When the preacher or deacon tells me, I just don't know, then I'm going to call you. So, that's the way it's going to be. Well, you're welcome. And I appreciate it. And I do appreciate it. Okay. You do clear me up on a lot of things. I have more questions. I will let you go.

That was my question for today. I held yesterday as long as I could, but I couldn't stay with you. So, anyway. But thank you again, Mr. Slick, and I'll be speaking to you again soon. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Bye-bye.

All right. Now, a slight correction. It's not Luke 24, 10, but 24, 16, and their eyes were prevented from recognizing him. Now, what's interesting about Luke 24, this is the road where he's walking with the disciples. They didn't recognize him because their eyes were beheld or prevented from recognizing him. That's what it says in Luke 24, 16.

It wasn't until after he broke bread that they recognized him. Now, crucifixion wounds are not in the palms. It's a common misnomer. They're in the wrist because you put them between the two bones in the forearm there and it'll stay. You put the nails in the palms, it'll rip out when there's a lot of weight on them.

It'll rip through your skin. So, they put them in the wrist area. They didn't have a word for wrist. The wrist and hand were considered the same thing. They had one word for both.

That's just what it was in the culture. So, think about this. He's wearing a long robe, which would cover the wrists when you break bread. It's not like us. We undo the twisty and we reach in and get a couple slices of bread.

Don't think like that. Think a mound of bread the size of a dinner plate might be two, three, four inches high. That kind of an idea.

A mound. And then you had to rip it in half. So, when you rip it in half, you used your strength. You would take your hands and tear. Some think that maybe at that point is when the garment of his wrists moved down and then they saw the holes and they recognized them.

So, that's one of the possibilities. Let's get to Tom from Florida. Tom, welcome. You're on the air.

Hi. Thank you, Matt, for taking my question. Thank you for your show and your relentless commitment to the exclusivity of Jesus Christ.

So many appreciate that. Please, a quick question. In Revelation 1-9, you may recall or know that John, the apostle, refers to himself as a partaker in the tribulation. And I emphasize the article because in the King James, it's partaker in tribulation. And I think that's relevant to the question, which is, what tribulation do you believe John is referring to? It does say in the Greek, it says, Entei Flipsei. So, it is saying, in the tribulation.

So, the word is in the Greek. Now, the tribulation that they're going through at the time, some think that depending on when Revelation was written, 60s, 70s, there was persecution going on from the empire. Caesaropapism was in view. Caesaropapism is worship of the emperor. Nero in the 60s was killing Christians.

And it didn't just end with Nero, it continued on afterwards. So, there's probably a reference to that kind of a persecution in the first century. Remember, he was exiled to an island because they couldn't kill him. So, it's likely then, depending on the date of the writing, it was the 70 AD attack on Jerusalem in the temple.

It could be. It just depends on when Revelation was written. If it was written in 65 AD, then the temple thing wouldn't have been an issue. If it was written afterwards, then it could have been an issue because Rome came in and did a lot of butt kicking. So, it's all possible.

I hold to a dating a little after the 60s in the book of Revelation, but I've not really studied it extensively. So, that's what I hold to. Just one last point on that, if I may. Could it be he's just referring to the general tribulations of the Christian life and his particular suffering?

Yes. Now, it says, I, John, the brother of Philip, in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God testimony. So, here's the thing. If he's on Patmos, there's no persecution coming direct, to be indirect. So, he might have been referring to something in the past or there might have been something going on generically and the people were afraid of him enough to try to boil him in oil, the legend goes. And it didn't work. They go, okay, let's not mess with him anymore.

Put him out over there. And it's still a form of persecution. So, it could be an extended issue there. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Do we have time for another Revelation question? Sure.

Thanks. As you well know, there's so much imagery symbolism in the book with different figures and different descriptions. And as we seek to interpret that, it sometimes can be, you know, it's kind of mind boggling. And I heard a theory, I'm just interested in your opinion, that one reason John chose to write in such symbolic language is because it was the best way that he could get the letters out and past those who are persecuting him, who would if he wrote straight up, if you will. And very clearly, it would be about a topic that would have been, if you will, censored or the mail destroyed. And therefore the imagery made it uninterpretable by those who would destroy his mail, if you will.

I hope I'm making that question clear. Just wonder if you had opinions on that. Well, obviously, he wrote because God inspired him to do it that way. The practical reason could be that exactly. Because I think there's something to it.

John was restricted. He wrote Revelation on Patmos. So it's going to get out. I think it's a good reason that he would write in code. And if you knew the Bible, you knew it. This would make, Oh, I get that. I get that. I get that.

So I think it's a, you know, it's a good, good viable theory. Well, thanks. And thanks again for all you do. Hope you have a good night and a good show. You too.

God bless, man. Thanks. Appreciate it. All right. Bye. Bye.

All right. Next longest waiting is Ebenezer. Ebenezer, welcome. You are on the air.

Hey, hey, Matt. Can you hear me? Yes, I can.

Yeah. So, um, I was talking to Orthodox person. And they, they brought up, they alluded to second Peter, 120 and 21, about a private interpretation.

Uh, how, uh, he, they said Peter, Peter, um, uh, condemned private interpretation and, uh, that, you know, um, but the church is, uh, you know, interpretation, I guess is superior, I guess. Um, like what it, what it, can you actually do that for me? Cause I kind of don't understand. It's very easy.

It's really easy. Just read it. It does not say that no scripture is of one, one's own interpretation. What it says is no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation. The issue is prophecy, not scripture. It's that simple for second Peter, 120 for know this, first of all, that no prophecy of scripture, the subject is prophecy is a matter of one's own interpretation.

So when the Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox take this verse and they misapply it like that, I have to correct them and say, what does it say is not of a private interpretation says prophecy, not scripture. You don't, you can't even read the Bible, right? And now you want to tell us what to believe.

Got that wrong. Hold on buddy. We've got a break. Okay. So hold on. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. Welcome back to the show. Don't know if Ebenezer is still on. We'll give him a little bit here and if not, we'll move on because I did answer the question.

Don't know if he's going to hang in there. Oh, there he is. Okay. Let's see.

Let's get back on. So you said, yeah, yeah, I'm here. So you said with regards to prophecy, right? So, um, so, okay. So that, that will kind of, um, I guess, refute the whole patristic authority thing, right?

Yes. It's very simple. You see, it's, I just asked them and I could already told you before the break, I just say, what does it say? No prophecy of scripture. That's what it says is of one's own interpretation.

That's it. So why do you, and I say to them, why do you misread it and make it say what it doesn't say? It doesn't say no scripture is of one's own interpretation, but no prophecy of scripture. You got that wrong.

You can't even get that right. And it's right before you. And yet you want to tell us that your church is a true church. Did they tell you that this is what this verse means when it can't even get it right?

You see? So what do, what does that mean by prophecy of scripture? Prophecy is a proclamation and or forth telling of the future.

Oh, Oh, like, uh, like prophets. Right. Okay. Oh, okay.

All right. Oh, so like when you read, um, when you read, um, like, uh, Hosea or, you know. Then they, what they'll do, they could do all kinds of stuff.

Okay. They could say, well, that just means a whole Bible. See, how do you know that's what it means?

Now, are you giving me your own interpretation? Now they're stuck. Oh yeah. They, I got that.

I got that from them too. So the word is profiteia. Okay. Profiteia.

All right. Now it's used in 19 places in the Bible. And like the first one is Matthew 13, 14, for example, in their case, the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled. Uh, and it says, uh, in Romans 12, six, the gifts charismatic gifts of prophecy, according to the portion of his faith, uh, and it goes on Thessalonians do not despise prophetic utterances in accordance with the prophecies revealed made concerning you.

That's first Timothy one 18. So it has a bit of a semantic domain, but it generally means is specifically more specifically, we could say what is going after it is a prophetic word over someone or proclamation. So the prophecy of scripture are those things that were prof prophetic, not just scripture. So I just tell them that you can't even get that right.

And you have those. So, so what about, what about when they, you know, bring it up like, Oh, um, authority to forgive sins and stuff like that. Like, um, like in, and cause I told him like, don't we all have, we all as Christians have that power.

Uh, like binding and losing. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Before I get to that, I'm gonna tell you the next verse has no profit of a second Peter one 21 for no prophecy. It's the same Greek word was ever made by an act of human will, but by men moved by the Holy Spirit. So this prophecy was talking about is the prophetic proclamation, predicting that what's going on. So they just can't, they can't get that right. As far as authority goes, what they want to do is go to things like Matthew 16, 18, for example.

Uh, Oh no, not 16, 18, um, 19, 2023, 2023. We'll go there instead because there's several that are basically the same. He says, if you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they have been retained. So what they'll do is they'll still listen to them. Read it.

So can you read it to me? What they're going to do is say, if you forgive the sins of any, their sins are forgiven. Present tense.

If you forgive, they are forgiven. Present tense. That's not how it is in the Greek. In the Greek, a fronti is what's, uh, it's called a perfect passive indicative. Let me explain what's going on. So we have in English and in Greek, we have present, past, we have perfect, we have pluperfect.

Okay, I'll explain them. Present is I walk. Past, I walked.

Perfect is past action continuing in the past and into the present. I have been walking. I have been walking, which means I was and I still am.

Pluperfect is past action completed in the past. I had been walking, which means you no longer are. I was, I had been, so that means I'm done. But if you say I have been walking, well then you're still walking? That's what's going on in the Greek. It's perfect tense and it's passive, which means I receive in the action. All right, so it says if you forgive, that's present tense, their sins have been forgiven.

Now what's going on? Is Jesus saying that they are pronouncing forgiveness and that's why they're forgiven? That's why they're forgiven. Because your church's authority proclaims forgiveness on somebody. That's why they're forgiven? They might say yes because they have the authority.

Then ask this question. Okay, so if one of your priests forgives someone's sins, is God obligated to follow suit and forgive them also? Is he supposed to do that because of your authority? That's a question that's tough for them to answer because now what they're saying is their authority gets God to do what they want, but they can't have that. So they're pretty much saying God, in the place of saying God.

There you go. Their authority, their church has the authority, so their church can forgive sin, so therefore they're forgiven because they say so. I ask them, well then does that mean God's got to follow suit and do what you guys say?

So I go back to the text and it says it's like this. If you forgive the sins of anyone, their sins have been forgiven. They've already been forgiven. It's like saying already, but the word's not there in the Greek.

I'm trying to get this across. You see, their sins are forgiven. The disciples and Christians can say your sins are forgiven if you lead someone to the Lord and they trust in Christ. All of their sins are forgiven. You can say your sins are forgiven. Now, here's another thing about this text. If you forgive the sins of any, if you forgive, this is an aorist active, subjunctive.

If in this issue you were to do this, it's already done. So aorist means past tense and active means you're performing the action. So if you forgave the sins of any. It's not present tense, it's past tense. If you forgave, that's what an aorist is.

If you forgave the sins, their sins have been forgiven. But they translate it into the English in the present tense. And there's rules and things like this.

But it gets difficult sometimes. You talk to a Greek expert at this point and say I've got questions to get more particulars. But here's some other verses at how this renders it. And the ESV says if you forgive, King James, whoever sins ye, remit. If you forgive the sins of any, because the King James, RSV, if you forgive the sins, if you forgive the sins, LEB, NIV, if you forgive. So it goes on, they're translating the aorist into the English present tense.

Now why do they do that? And that's the question I'd like to ask a Greek expert. Anyway, I hope that helps. Does that help, buddy?

Here's a break. All right, man. We'll call back. We can go over some more if you want, okay?

All right, God bless, buddy. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. Stay tuned. We'll be right back to the show. Let's go with Elijah from Pennsylvania. Welcome, brother.

You're on the air. Do you think that John 21 17 is a good verse to approve the deity of Christ? Because in that verse, Peter says that Jesus knows all things, but only God can know all things, right? That's a good verse that I use to demonstrate the knowledge of Christ, John 21 17. So I think it's a good verse to use in support of his deity. It's not a proof text, but it's a supporting verse. Now, one of the things that I'll bring up about this verse is, I'll say to them, the critics, they'll say, Jesus didn't know everything.

He didn't know the hour of his return. And I go and explain the cultural context and the idiomatic phraseology that he was using. But I say, John 21 17, Peter says, you know all things, Lord.

And here's what's critical. Jesus did not correct him. He didn't correct him. Okay. So, all right.

Yeah. Um, also, what do you think about this argument? Because my uncle is a Muslim, and I want to know if you ever heard this argument before. So, he says that he believes that the Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel, because he says that the Greek proves that the Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel, and I've never heard that argument before. Have you ever heard a Muslim say that before?

Yes, and it doesn't work. You go to John 14 26, and 14 26 or 15 26, so both of them say, like I said, a helper comes and sends you to the Father. Another helper is what I'm looking for, because in the Greek, come on, where are you? I almost said another helper.

Oh, come on, you slimeball. And the word in Greek is, let me find the exact verse. I thought I knew right where it was, but I don't. Bible, send another helper. Okay. I need to find the exact verse on 14 16.

I should have known that one. So, here we go. So, this is what it says. I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helper. Now, the word another there is from Allos, and in Greek, there's two words for another. One is Allos and one is Heteros.

Heteros is another of a different kind, but Allos is another of the same kind. I will ask the Father, he'll give you another helper of the same kind, that he'll be with you forever. You see, that's the angel Gabriel, which there's nothing there that says that.

If that's the angel Gabriel, then why is that particular Greek word used to designate another of the same kind when he's talking about Jesus and the Father in the context? Okay. All right? Right, right. Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. What did you say?

Now, here, let me give you something that's worth doing. If you write this down, I can help you out really fast, okay? You guys have got some paper, you can ask him some questions, all right?

You ready? Okay, just write down the addresses, and then just listen, and I'll show you how to use these. In Surah 482 in the Qur'an, Surah 482, 4 colon 82, it says, Do they not consider the Qur'an, had it been from other than Allah, they would surely find therein much discrepancy. You show him that. So if the Qur'an has any discrepancy, is it true or false? Because the Qur'an is saying, if there's discrepancy in it, it's false. Okay, now get him to admit that.

Then you can do two things. There's two places you can go, and one is Surah 86, 5 through 7, and this will cause him to do research if he doesn't already know this issue, and I'll tell you what they generally say. This says in Surah 86, 5 through 7, Now let man but think from what he has created, he's created from a drop emitted proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs. So I'm going to be careful how I discuss this particular issue related to Qutas, but it says a drop emitted proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs, that's what we're created from. So the Qur'an is teaching that a man's seed comes from his chest.

That's wrong. What they generally do is they get ridiculous explanations. They'll say, Have you ever studied this stuff, Matt?

Yes, I have. And they'll say, Well, you see, the stuff from the back area always goes down in the testes, and I'm like, Is this ridiculous? And I say, Notice the word drop. It's an admission. We know what that's talking about.

And so that's a problem for them. That's one of them, and I'll show you one more. Okay? You ready?

This is a good one too. Surah 4, 157. Surah 4, 157.

I'm going to read it to you. They said in Bost, We killed Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, the apostle of Allah. But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them. And those who differ therein are full of doubts with no certain knowledge, but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not.

So this is what you do. Say, Okay, in Surah 42, the Quran has no discrepancy. Okay, good. No discrepancies. Good.

Okay. But in Surah 4, 157, it says he wasn't crucified, but it was made to appear to them. And ask them, I mean, what was made to appear? The general response is someone was made to look like Jesus who was crucified. This is what the Tafsir teach, which is a commentary, Muslim commentary.

They say it was made to look like him. I've only read one Tafsir that says they don't know. So I'll ask the Muslim, nine times out of ten, they'll say, Well, it was Allah who made who did this. Now, if he were to say that, you got him. If he says, I don't know, well, then he doesn't know. He really can't do anything.

Okay? But you say it was made to appear to them. And I tell people, tell the Muslim, the Tafsir I read say it was Allah who did this.

Do you agree with the commentaries? Put a little pressure on him. Anyway, so it was Allah who made it look like Jesus was crucified, then Allah by his own direct hand deceived people. That means your God is a deceiver by his direct desire. Why would he, right there in the text, offer a contradiction?

Saying Jesus was not crucified, but I'm going to make it look like he was. That's what Allah did. So why would he put a deception on people and be one responsible for Christianity's existence when Allah made it deceive them in the first place? See, so this is the God you follow who's a deceiver.

Okay? Yeah, but if I were to bring that up, I'm pretty sure he would say, well, the God of the Bible does the same thing. Because I think he'll bring up, what is that?

I can't remember. I think it's like Thessalonians. Yeah, I think it's 2 Thessalonians where it says the God will stand on strong delusion. He'll send a deluding influence upon them.

There's two ways to deal with this. One is he sends an influence on them so they'll believe a lie. So he's allowing an influence to go upon people so that they will believe what's false. But here's the difference.

And I go back to this really quickly. I say, the Bible doesn't say if there's a discrepancy and it's not from Allah. The Quran does. And if you go to the Bible and say, well, there's one over there, then you're admitting there's one in the Quran.

Otherwise, you wouldn't go to the Bible. So you're admitting the Quran has a discrepancy, aren't you? That's why you're going to say, well, your God did it. Oh, so you're saying Allah did it. But that means the Quran says it's false. If you believe the Quran, it's false.

If you don't believe the Quran, you're lost. So who are you? Okay? All right? Yeah. Did you have people waiting? Yes.

We've got two people waiting, so why don't you call back and get in line, okay? All right. Thank you. Okay, then. God bless. Okay.

All right. Let's get to Patrick from Charlotte, North Carolina. Patrick, welcome. You're on the air.

Hello, Matt. Thanks for taking my call. I've been talking to you about the apostles in previous calls last week, and I have a question. Were the apostles disciples before they were apostles? Yes. Okay. So you told me that in John 6-8 that they were already apostles, but the scripture says that they were disciples.

And I, like I said, I believe John 6-37 is all the Father gives me is the apostles. Patrick, look, I've shown you from the context, okay? Can you let me finish, please? I've shown you what's going on. I've shown you the context.

We've answered this stuff before. And like I do, I'll tell you now, I'll tell you again. You're not a Christian. You have a demonic force upon you.

You need to repent. Now, I'm going to ask you a question. After the break, I'm going to ask you a question about you prayed to Jesus.

I want to ask you specifically about that when we get back. We'll be right back, folks, after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's see if we can come on mouse.

There we go. Let's get back on with Patrick. Are you still there?

Yes, I'm still here. Patrick, look, I'm going to tell you something. I want you to listen. The Holy Spirit reveals the truth. There's a witness of the truth. Jesus bears witness of the Father and reveals the Father, Matthew 11-27. You have to have the true Jesus to get to the Father and the Holy Spirit so you'll know the truth. The true Jesus is prayed to in the Bible. Acts 755-60, John 14-14. Now, I'm going to ask you, have you prayed to Jesus and asked Jesus to forgive you? I tell you the Lord's prayer.

Our Father who art in heaven and hallowed be with you. I didn't ask you that. I did not ask you that. I didn't ask you that. I did not ask you that.

I didn't ask you that. I asked you a question. I asked you a question.

Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, stop, stop. I asked you a question. Have you prayed to Jesus and asked him to forgive you?

I prayed to God. Is that okay? Okay, so what's your answer? Look, you need to learn how to answer a question. Okay, we're gone. We're gone.

Okay. Notice, folks, he can't answer the question. Notice there's a demonic presence that can't bear witness of Christ, can't go to Christ.

That's demonic. And you can see how immediately he did not want to admit to the truth in the Bible about going to Jesus. I gave him the scriptures. I showed it to him. And immediately he denied it. He said, I go to the Father. The Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses say the same thing because they also deny that you pray specifically, directly to the person of Jesus Christ and be forgiven of their sins.

So, this means he does not have the true Christ and therefore is lost. Let's go to Janet from Raleigh, North Carolina. Janet, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, man, how you doing? Doing okay. Just battling heretics, you know.

Oh, the usual. I'll stop using my name and just call me the church lady because that's all I do is call about church issues. That's okay. That's all right. I like it. I like it.

Oh, good, good, good. Well, you're the one that's been kind of coaching me along a little bit about the church in downtown Raleigh that I went to. And I felt like I was the only African American and all that kind of stuff. So, I want to go to an African American. I love African American churches. Yeah, I do too. But I just don't feel like I'm led to go to one.

It's just the weirdest thing. I'm like, huh. Anyway. I wonder an African American church that's reformed in its theology. Oh, yeah.

That would be good. Have you ever seen one of those? I know they exist, but there's not one around our area. Because, look, I'm going to just say it. I'm going to say it at the risk of sounding not really good. But you go to, let's say, how do I say this?

I get in too much trouble. Go to white churches. And they're good. They're good. But they just don't get excited when you're delivering the word of God and the congregations.

That's what I'm trying to say. That's what I'm involved in now. The church I'm going to now is like that. It's a white church. They're good.

It's good. They teach. Black churches preach. The white churches teach. That's why I like to go to the black churches. Because the pastor's involved with the word. And I like it when the congregation goes, amen. I love that stuff. And that's what I'm looking for.

And I want them to be reformed so I can go. Oh, yeah. My wife wants to know. She wants the same thing. Yeah. I know. I'm not trying to sound racist or anything.

I don't want to risk something. But, you know, I'm just saying. Right. Right.

But you're saying what I'm saying is the same thing. It's like, I don't know why I'm compelled to go to this church because it's not an African-American church. It's a white church.

It's homogeneous. It's not very diverse or anything. But I've been going there for like eight weeks now. And there's stuff I like about it.

It's kind of weird. I was very sarcastic in the beginning about it. But I started going to the community groups. I started meeting people.

I started going to some of the question and answer groups and met people there and got my questions answered and all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, well, I don't know what to do. I'm like, I didn't expect to enjoy it as much. I'm enjoying it.

But there's stuff I still have issues with. Darn those white churches. You can actually enjoy it. I'm like, huh?

Darn those white churches. You can actually enjoy it. I'm trying my best. I'm like, OK, OK.

I go outside. I can barely get out of bed on Sunday mornings. I'm like, I know I'm going. The sermons are good, but they're teaching. I don't get that like uplifting thing where I can go out for the whole week and be like, you know what? I feel motivated now. That's what the black churches do.

They make you feel kind of motivated. You know, I did nine years of prison ministry. I used to go to the different prisons and preach. Well, the guys in there, they weren't exactly kosher to the proper rules. And I remember I was preaching once. I was in Corcoran Prison and I was preaching. And all of a sudden this guy gets up in the middle of the sermon and he's answering my rhetorical questions. You know, like, what do you think Jesus would do?

Oh, he would not like that. And I'm like, yeah, I'm enjoying it. I just love the interaction. Oh, I miss it. That happened a lot. Oh, it was so real.

It was so rich. I'm sorry. I'm whining.

No, no, no, no. It's a great thing. It's like, I just want more diversity. I want both. I want teaching and preaching. I want a little bit of both.

I don't want to just want it. I just feel it. That's what I do. I preach and teach. I get involved in the sermon. I've moonwalked in the pulpit. I've walked like I'm arrogant. I've talked to people.

I've gone down and pleaded with them. I mean, I just get involved because it's good. It's the word of God.

It's the word of God. And I do some teaching. Oh, I love all of it. And I even tell the congregations, look, I'm going to ask you some questions. And I do this. I go, I do this. I say, okay, everybody, you know, get to the pulpit.

I got to preach. I'll say, okay, how are you all doing this morning? Okay, we're doing fine.

That's what I get. Yeah, we're good. And I say, look, I did nine years of prison ministry.

Nine years. I'd go in there in the church and the chapel and preaching. I'd say, hey, guys, how you doing? They get a resounding, yeah, we're doing great.

And I come out here to the people who are free in the church. I say, how you doing? Yeah, we're doing okay. And I said, that's not acceptable.

So we tried again. I want to hear something from you. That's how I am with the congregation. I love that. Wow.

And then I make them get excited. Oh, gosh. I believe I was calling you. Okay, sorry. It's kind of what we were talking about.

This is what we were talking about. But I was calling to say to you, I'm having this experience. It's a good experience. But I wonder, when we look for churches, should we visit other churches, too, just to be sure?

What's your take on that? Well, it just depends what you're doing. You know, if you've got a church that's really good and there's no reason to leave it, you know, stay. And pray and say, Lord, I don't know if I should write church or not. And you just ask and maybe after a while you go, no, I'm here for a while. God has me here for a while.

Or maybe the pastor says something really stupid, repeatedly, trying to look for another church. It just depends, you know. And the church I'm going to, I'm really hard to fit.

I'm really hard to fit. Yeah, I bet. And I know a lot of stuff, you know. And the church I'm going to is basically, I think there's a couple black people in there, but everybody's white. And it's Boise, Idaho. I mean, Idaho, okay. Right, right, right.

And so it's not like the South, it's Idaho. And when you see a black person here, you go, hey, look, you know, because that's how rare it is. And so they're great and everybody's good. And the content is awesome and the worship is great. The people are just wonderful. They really are. I just like a little excitement.

But it's a good reason to stay because they're so good. The pastor is doing a great job. And they had an elder preach last week, two weeks ago.

He did a great job. You know, good stuff. Now, that church, did you decide to join? Are you our member there?

Or what is the deal? No, I don't do memberships. I don't do that. Oh, you don't? I don't do memberships. No. I don't do that. No. I don't see it in the Bible. Oh. I don't see it necessary.

And to me, it means sign the dotted line and they can call you up and tell you what for and what not for and everything. I don't need that. And I just go. I just go. That's me. Okay. That's me. Okay. Huh. That's just me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where I'm at.

I don't know. But it hasn't been such a terrible experience as I thought it was going to be. And I was like, it's not as bad as I thought. You mean the white people are nice to you and everything? You're having a good time?

They're really nice. You can't meet people on Sunday. That's the thing about it. If you go on Sundays, there's a big crowd there and stuff. And they all just go out the door right after the sermon's over.

Nobody stays around and hugs. I know. They just kind of go.

I know. Yeah, they just kind of leave. What is with that?

Yeah. They're not welcoming you. Hey, how are you doing? Yeah, I walked out of my church. I got up. I just gradually walked out. No one said hi.

No one said anything. Yeah, that's how it works. Uh-huh.

Well, you know what it is, though? The people that aren't committed to the church, they just come on Sunday morning. And then they leave. So they don't really know anybody anyway.

They just kind of come in an isolated way. Whereas, I got involved in a community group. And I'm involved with some other stuff. So I'm meeting people on that level. I'm not meeting them on Sunday morning worship. I'm meeting them during the week.

You know, because I'm involved with them. See, you can do that. I can't do that. I'll mess everybody up if I go into a study.

So I can't do that. Oh, yeah, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you see, it sounds like, you know, you and I could just sit and talk about this. We'd go, okay. And then, you know, it'd be fun. My wife wishes better for all three of us to go look for a church. It'd be good. I'd love to go look for a church with you.

Boy, that'd be great. My wife doesn't think so. My wife will say, well, what'd you think? And I go, well, you see.

And then she just rolls her eyes because here it comes, you know. But I'm just learning to be more. Oh, man. But, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know. I guess maybe I'll still. I'm doing all the right things, man.

I really am. But I just, I'm not sure. I just feel like I need to experience something else. I don't know. Well, ask God. Ask God. He may have you there for a reason to help others or to be helped or a little bit of both. You know what?

Because if you're there and you're enjoying it and there's nothing bad about it, then you don't stick it out and see what you have. See what's going on. It's no big deal. Yeah, maybe I should kind of stick with it for a little bit or so. Yeah. That's right. I'm like, oh, I keep thinking about that preaching, you know. I'm like, man, I sure miss that. I know.

But if that's the only reason I'm not going, then that's probably not enough, I guess. I don't know. Right. Yeah. You and I both like the excitement from the pulpit.

It's the word of God. Let's go. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I appreciate that, Matt. I appreciate you kind of hanging in there with me on these questions and all that stuff, but I'm going to keep you posted. I'm going to hang in there with you for a little bit, but I'm sure if you have more questions. All right, Janet.

You come out to Idaho, you visit me. Okay. We'll get along great. Okay. We'll go to church together, right? Yeah.

We'll go to church together and bore the crud out of you. Okay. Okay. Have a good night. You too.

God bless. Okay. All right. Take care. Bye-bye. Okay.

You too. Oh, man, that'd be fun. All right. Let's go out there in Carolina to do that. I'd love to do that.

Adrian for North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air. Thank you, honey. God bless you. Thank you. I don't have a question. I'm just having a comment.

Yes, sir. I'm just having a comment about your conversation with that nice gentleman from Raleigh, I think you said. I listened to a pastor on the radio station that I listen to you on and it's in the morning. His name is, he's a converted Christian, he's a converted Jew, Lon Solomon, and I love him. Anyway, and he preaches his stuff and then he says to the congregation, he says, okay, you know the question to ask. And he says, okay, one, two, three. And the whole congregation says, so what? I just thought that was so in line with what you were saying. I had to call and say that. I like the interaction.

What happened was the nine years of prison ministry I did, I learned to love the freedom in prisons to be able to preach and teach and how the men interacted. And that ruined it for me. I just love that. I'd like to see it. Amen. Well, there's a gentleman that used to say in church, he would say, well, glory. Love that too. Love it. Yeah, I do too.

Love it. I love the excitement of the word. It's refreshing.

Oh, hey, there's the music. So we got to go. Amen. Amen. Thank you, sir. Take care. God bless. You too. God bless. Bye. God bless. Okay. Last few minutes of the conversations. It's a lot of fun. The Lord bless you this evening and by His grace back on there tomorrow and we'll talk to you then. We'll see you. Have a good evening. Take care.