Matt Slick Live

It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, hope you had a good weekend. I had a good weekend. I was involved in some good discussions. Maybe I'll talk about them or not, some of the problems and the issues that are, I don't know, atheists. Let's just say that the atheists, they really do try and find as many ways as they can, sadly to say, to deny the truth of who Christ is. It's really sad.

I wish that they would trust in Christ and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. So I've had some discussions on that issue. I've been preaching the Gospel a lot lately online and I'm really grateful for that. Well, anyway, so if the producer's listening, if you want me to connect now into one, I will. If you want to leave on two, that's okay. And then we know what we're talking about. All right, all right.

Hey, we have nobody waiting. If you want to call me, 877-207-2276. Also, you can email me at info at karm.org. And in the comments, just put radio comment or radio question in the subject line. That's what you can do. All right. And since we have nobody waiting right now, I think what I might do is get to some of the radio questions. So we'll see.

I hope I sound good over the radio or different channel right now, but that's okay. And that's it. We are in Clubhouse right now.

I'm also on StreamYard feeding to Rumble and also to two channels on YouTube. There we go. All right. Let's see. So I'm having discussions in the past couple of days with some atheists. And the atheist is really interesting with the discussions. I like, a lot of people think I'm strange for this, but I like going into different venues where the rabid anti-Christians are.

And I like to dive in, because a lot of times I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know what I'm going to say. And I don't know what arguments they have. Well, because I'm a Christian apologist and I like to disseminate information to people. As the years go by, I get into more sophisticated arguments and sophisticated issues. And some of the atheists that I've encountered are, some get pretty sophisticated.

Honestly, they do. And so it takes more oomph to be able to deal with some of the challenges that they might offer. Well, anyway, no big deal. And so one of the things that we're discussing is that they're saying Jesus can't be both God and man. And the reason he can't be, because as one person exists, he can't have the attributes of two contradictory items, like contingency and non-contingency, knowledge and infinite knowledge and not infinite knowledge. And they say this entails a contradiction. And I explain to them, no, it doesn't entail a contradiction because you don't understand.

You don't understand what the issue is. If we're going to say that he is one person with two natures, I ask them, please demonstrate to me logically how one person cannot have two natures. It's different than the issues of the attributes of both natures being described with a single person.

And furthermore, I respond and I said, there's no logical contradiction there. I said, plus what Jesus does under different contexts is he cites and utilizes different qualities of his person. So, for example, and sometimes he might just walk around on the earth, but it doesn't mean that he's not divine. It's because he's not accessing and utilizing the divine quality of being able to be on the other side of the universe instantaneously, at least in the human form.

So that there's this balance between what is the attributes of one nature with the other nature. And I said, just like me, if I'm walking, it means I'm not sitting, but I can do both and I can access them under different contexts at different times for different reasons. So how is it then that if Jesus has two natures and the properties are ascribed to the one person, that he cannot access those two natures and the properties within his own person because we don't know how it works. And so thus not having any contradiction at all because the natures still retain what they are, the natures and the properties still retain what they are.

It's just that he's accessing at will which property he wants to utilize at one time. I said, show me how that's a contradiction and they couldn't do it. And what's interesting is when I ask them questions, show me how such a thing cannot be logically possible. They can't answer the question. What they typically do is they will then say that I'm deflecting. And I said, no, I give you an answer and then I'm asking you a question because what they want to do is line up and ask me 15 questions.

I'm supposed to answer every one. If I ask them a question, they don't want to do that. They don't want to be asked. They don't want to be cross-examined. And I tell them, you guys don't want to do this. I said, look, I've been answering your questions now for an hour.

Now I want you to answer me some questions. And they said, no, we don't do it that way. And so they're unfair and that's how they are. So this is one of the things I was dealing with this weekend. For me, that's a good time.

For me, that's a good time. But for a lot of other Christians, it would be torture. And then I found out that the atheists were boasting that I wasn't able to answer anything, which is just not true. So I think it's interesting.

Anyway, that's what I was doing. And by the way, I'll be down and I'll be in Provo. Let's see what we can do next. In two weeks, I'll be in Provo, Utah, on the 7th and the 8th, driving down Saturday, driving back Sunday. I'm going to be watching Ed Romine preach. I'm going to go there. I'm going to try and get in the best possible position I can for him to see me while he's preaching so that I can be annoying. And I hope he's hearing me say that. But no, I'm not going to really do that.

But it was a lot of fun to tempt him. And that's that. The weekend after that, I'll be in Southern California speaking at a conference. And the topics I want to speak on are the two natures of Christ and Christ exhibiting the greatest act of love.

And so a conference on Islam. Anyway, that's what you got. All right. Like I said, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 8772072276. You can also email me.

That's easy to do. Just send an email to info at karm.org and put the subject line radio comment or radio question. Let's get to Ben from Ohio. Ben, welcome.

You're on the air. How's it going, man? It's going, man. It's going.

It's all I got. I don't know about seeking me a general synopsis on something here. We've been first Thessalonians for 13 to 17. I'm kind of having some just not really understand this. The guy will bring those who have fallen asleep in 14 and then proceed. I don't know.

I'm just maybe a tiny thing of who and when this will happen. Okay. Want me to kind of go through verse by verse and explain stuff? Whatever's easy for you, brother. Okay.

So let's do that. But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about these who are asleep. When it's talking about those who are asleep, it's not talking about unconsciousness, because we know that people are conscious after death. We know that from what Jesus said in Luke 16, 19 to 31 with the story, not a parable, but a story of Lazarus and the rich man.

We also see that the transfiguration of Jesus, Moses and Elijah, were there with him. And we also see in 2 Corinthians 12, 2 through 4 that people, a man in the body or out of the body, Paul doesn't know, he went to heaven and saw things and heard things. So the term asleep is just a reference to Christians who have died.

That's all. It just means death. And they're still conscious and still around, not us, but in heaven. He says, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope, because we Christians have hope in the resurrection. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, God will bring with him those who fall asleep in Jesus. So when Christ returns, those who are alive will be the ones who come first. Because he goes on, he says, for this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. This means when Jesus returns, that the first ones he's going to, let's just say resurrect, be with, will be those Christians who have died in the faith before the people who are still alive on the earth. For this, he says, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep, though the ones who have fallen asleep will precede us. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

The dead in Christ will rise first. That means those who are asleep, those who have died in faith, and the dead have died. Now when we go to Acts 1, 9-11, after Jesus ascended into heaven, this is what it says. And after he had said these things, he was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while he was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.

They also said, Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you watched him go into heaven. So he ascended into heaven where the sky was, and a cloud received him out of the sight.

So vertically into the sky, into the air, and clouds overshadowed him, and then he was gone. That's how he's going to return. And back to 1 Thessalonians 4, 16, For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, with the trumpet of God. So he's going to return.

I'm going to get back to that, but keep reading. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we'll forever be with him. Now what I'm going to do is jump over to Matthew 24. And they said, because Jesus came out of the temple, and he said to them, Look, these stones will all be thrown down. And in verse 3, they asked him, When will these things happen, will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age? What Jesus then does is he goes in and he starts talking about wars, rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes, tribulation, false prophets, etc., lawlessness, everything.

The gospel of the kingdom will be preached everywhere. In verse 15 of Matthew 24, he says, When you see the abomination of desolation spoken unto Daniel, and he goes on and on. And he says in verse 22, which is important, because if he cut short, no life would be saved.

I could teach on that for a while. Then he says, For the coming of the Son of Man will be as the lightning is from the east to the west. Then he says immediately after the tribulation of those days where the great trumpet will send him from. We'll get back to that for this. I'll get to this after because this is going to explain some stuff to you. So hold on, folks. We'll write back after these messages.

Please stay tuned. And His Word is always true on the Truth Network. My name is Judy Teeter, and I'm the mother of three boys. My youngest, Joe, was a great kid.

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Find out more at nsc.gov. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show.

Actually, I'm on Access 2. That's right. All right, so let's get back on the air with Ben. As soon as he's reactivated, we'll get him back on. And if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. I'm waiting. The producer there, something's going on.

So they haven't activated him yet. If you want to email me, all you have to do is just dial or just send an email to info at karm.org, info at karm.org with a subject line, radio comment or radio question. Ben, are you still there?

Yep, still here. All right, now, as I was saying, I was going through and explaining those things. It says in 1 Thessalonians 4 that Jesus will descend from heaven with a shout, the voice of the archangel, the trumpet of God. Now, after that verse, it says we'll be caught up to meet him. So this is the one return that Jesus has. There is no half return in the clouds when he goes back into heaven.

That's a theology that's made up by some people. There's only one return of Christ. And so it says that we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with him in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. That's the one return because that's what he says, the return of Christ. Now, as I went through Matthew 24, when I was showing this, the disciples asked, when are these things going to be? When's going to be the destruction of the temple, the end of the age, your coming, your return, and things like that? And he gives all these warnings, lawlessness, false prophets, et cetera, and earthquakes and famines. In Matthew 24, 29, he says, but immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened.

Remember, this is after the tribulation. He says the stars will fall from the sky, et cetera. The sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, right?

In the sky, that's where Jesus is supposed to come back in. Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they'll see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the sky. This is what's prophesied by the angels in Acts 1, 9 through 11. And he says in verse 31 of Matthew 24, and he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet. They will gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of the sky to the other. So the return of Christ is accompanied with a great trumpet, and the elect, the chosen ones, will be gathered. That's what Jesus says in Matthew 24. Now, having said all this, let me go back to 1 Thessalonians 4, go through it again, and hopefully it'll make sense. Sound good so far?

Yeah. Sounds good, brother. All right, so verse 14, if we believe that Jesus died and rose, even so God will bring with him those who fall asleep when he comes back, those who died before we. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord that we who are alive and remain until the coming, that's only one return of Christ, will not precede those who fall asleep, those who have died before us in faith. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven.

We know that from Acts 1, 9 through 11. That's how he's going to come back. He's going to come back with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God, which Jesus says in Matthew 24 is after the tribulation very clearly. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together to meet him in the clouds where Jesus is.

And so we'll always be with him. Okay? Make sense? Awesome, man.

Yeah, it makes perfect sense. I'll go back and look at the verses you give me. There's a clip on the phone here, but I'll go back and look at all those verses again. I appreciate your time. Well, I can give them to you if you want.

You want to write them down? I'll listen to your show again. I'll listen to your show.

I'll listen to it again. Sure. Okay. All right, brother. There you go. God bless. I appreciate it, brother. You have a good keynote.

All right. So ladies and gentlemen, what I just did was show that the pre-tribulation rapture view can't work from scripture. It's just that simple. When you go to 1 Thessalonians 4, 16 through chapter 5, verse 2, it says that Jesus will come back. And when he does, he'll descend from heaven where the clouds are, which is what's prophesied as the single return. Not one and a half returns, not two.

One. And Jesus says, for the coming of the Son of Man will be just as the lightning shines from the east and flashes of the west. That's how it's going to happen. Boom.

Going to come back. And he says, after the tribulation is when the trumpet will occur and the gathering of the elect. That's the ones who are those who have died in Christ and are still alive on the earth. After the tribulation.

Now I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into this even more because it goes on. It says that in 1 Thessalonians 4, and we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. So we shall always be with the Lord.

Therefore, comfort one another with these words. Now ask them the times and the epics, brethren, you have no need for anything to be written to you, for you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. So when Jesus returns and the rapture occurs, that's the day of the Lord that comes like a thief in the night.

No problem. Now let's go to 2 Peter 3, 10. For the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat and the earth and its works will be burned up. Wait a minute. Jesus returns and when he does, it's called, and the rapture, which is after the tribulation, is called the day of the Lord that comes like a thief in the night.

And yet, the new heavens and new earth are made when it's the day of the Lord that comes like a thief. Whoo. Okay, chew on that for a while.

All right. Let's see who's longest waiting. I'll go with this one. Courtney from Ohio. Courtney, welcome. You're on the air. Hi there. Hi. I was wondering, you know, you're very firm on not having a woman pastor, and I thank you for that.

Good. Is there a connection between that and, you know, what it talks about in Revelation, how there's going to be like a harlot religion and all that. Is there a connection there? Is it a woman? The harlot woman probably is something like a Roman Catholic church, or it might be a new governmental system or a new worldish religion. There's different theories about it.

I wouldn't say that it's because of women pastors, but I would say that women pastors and elders is a sign of apostasy in the Christian church. I would say that. Okay.

That makes sense. May I add a question A with that? Of course. Have you ever heard...

Okay, awesome. You know how the Bible mentions like Ashtoreth and all those names? Yeah. Have you ever heard of, because the name's not in the Bible, Semiramis?

Semiramis? Yeah. Have you ever heard of that? I don't know.

No. It's supposedly another name for like Ashtoreth. Oh. If you go to different cultures or different countries, there's different names for the same woman. Supposedly, she's who married Nimrod. And then like when all the different... You know, like in the Tower of Babel, like that religion that was made there, when God confused the languages and they scattered, that it basically took that religion everywhere.

I had never heard that before, so I was wondering if you ever heard of Semiramis, because it's not in the Bible. No, I don't know. I haven't. Let me see if I can look during the break so I can find anything. Okay. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please. We'll be right back.

72276. You can also e-mail me, and that's easy to do. Just get to your e-mail and go to info at karm.org.

Put in the subject line radio comment or radio question, and I can get to those. Now, I'm waiting for Courtney to be reactivated so I can get her to know what's going on. I have a little bit of an issue today, I think, producers and stuff, so I may just have to hold on on Courtney and get to Elijah next.

I think that's what I'll do. So, Courtney, if you're listening, please hold on. Let's get to Elijah from Pennsylvania. Welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt. I have a question about the rapture. I just tuned in about, I guess, 10 minutes ago, and I saw that you were wrapping up your previous conversation on the rapture, so I don't know what you said about that, but hopefully I bring something to the discussion that Ian mentioned earlier. So I believe in the post-trib pre-rapture. That's a position that Donnie from Standing for Truth holds to, and I kind of understand why pre-trib rapture people believe in what they do.

I saw a video, I think, a couple weeks ago from a guy named Brian Patterson, and I believe that he put together the strongest argument for the pre-trib rapture, but even though it was the strongest argument and he put forth arguments in scripture I'd never heard before, I'm still not fully convinced because he didn't deal with the post-trib position to try to refute that, so I think he still has work to do on that. But here's some scriptures where I can see why pre-tribbers might think that there's a rapture and then there's a second coming where Jesus comes and destroys all the sinners. Okay, so Matthew 24, 29 to 31 is not really a verse where they'd like to say that's pre-trib rapture. They'd like to say that's Revelation 19, but it's clearly talking about the rapture of the saints right there because it says Jesus will come back with his angels, and the angels will go and collect all of the people from all over the world, and they will be taken up. And then in Matthew 25, 41 Jesus says when the Son of Man comes with all of his angels, then he will sit on his throne to judge the world. So in the verse I just mentioned to you, that's the rapture of him coming to gather the people, but in Matthew 25, 41 he says he's going to come back with his angels to judge the world, and that seems to line up with Revelation 19 where he comes back with all the saints who are with him in heaven. So it seems like there's two different events right here. The first verse I showed you seems to be the rapture of the church, but the second one seems to be connected to Revelation 19 where he comes back at two different occasions. So can you help me to try to understand this because this does seem like a pre-trib type thing right here. I'm not sure I'm following.

How could it be two returns? We go to Revelation 19. I'm not sure I understand. I can't follow it because the Bible says there's only one return, the return of Christ. In fact, in Matthew 24, they ask a specific question. They said to Jesus, tell us when will these things happen and what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age? So what's going to be the sign of your return, your coming, your being here and the end of the age?

So they relate those together. It's one return. I'm not sure I'm following you with what they're saying, but are they saying that he comes back twice, one for the rapture and then one after the tribulation?

Is that what you're implying out of all this? Well, the pre-tribers, they like to say that at the rapture, that's not really the second coming because they say that Jesus isn't going to touch down on the earth at the rapture. He's going to be in the clouds and then I take the saints to heaven, but they say at the second coming, that's when he's going to come back with the saints and he's going to come down on, I think, the Mount of Olives or something like that. Yeah, but what I was trying to get at with these two verses is that in Matthew 24, 29 through 31, it says Jesus is going to return with his angels and the angels are going to gather up all the people all around the world and take them up, but in Matthew 25, 41, it says Jesus is going to return with his angels and sit down on his throne for judgment. So the first passage, Jesus comes, the rapture people, but the second passage in Matthew 25, he returns with his angels to judge the world.

So you see the difference there? Yes, Matthew 25, 31, not 41. He returns in his glory and the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him.

Yeah, they're just reading into the text. The prophecy is there's only one return of Christ. Now they're going to say, well, he didn't return because he came down to get the angels, I mean to get the people, but it says in the clouds. The prophecy, that's how he's going to return in the clouds. If he's coming down, we meet him in the clouds, then that qualifies as his return from what the scripture says. So the pre-Tribbers, I'd love to have a public debate on this with people, but the pre-Tribbers are just, what they're doing is reading into the text and saying, see, he comes in the clouds, that's not his return. That is his return. That's Acts 1, 9-11. His return will be this way, come down in the clouds.

That's what it is. But they're going to say, oh, but he didn't touch down on the earth. Well, who says he's not touching down on the earth when he comes in his judgment?

And who says that? Because when you go to Matthew 24, he says after the Tribulation, he will gather. After the Tribulation is when the people are gathered and the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him. And notice what he says in Matthew 25, 31. When the Son of Man comes in glory and all the angels with him. It doesn't say with the people, because I get the implication I think they're saying is that Matthew 25, 31, he's coming back with the people. But I don't know. So I'd have to see all the arguments listed out sentence by sentence with the verses saying, this is what they're saying and that's what they're saying, and I'd love to write an article refuting it because I know some other stuff I haven't gotten into yet.

But let me throw something else out at you that will really mess with you if you haven't already been aware of this. In Matthew, by the way, now notice this. In Matthew 24, the disciples asked him in verse 3, what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age.

That's critical. The end of the age. There's two ages in Scripture, this age and the age to come. And no one teaches on this. But that's what the Bible teaches. That's what Jesus taught and that's what Paul the Apostle taught.

I've done research on this at the end of the age. Now what I'm going to do is go to Matthew 13. And you know the parable of the wheat and the tares. The wheat is the good, the tares are the bad.

Hey, should we tare them up? And Jesus says in verse 30, allow both to go together until the harvest. In the time of the harvest, I will say to the reapers, first gather up the tares and bind them in bundles. But gather the wheat into my barn. Now, the first ones gathered at the harvest is the wicked, not the good.

When the reapers, okay, now. Ten verses later, Jesus is interpreting the parable. Verse 40, so just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness and throw them into the furnace of fire. So what Jesus is saying, the first ones gathered are the wicked when he comes back at the end of the age. That's what he's saying.

And furthermore, you know about two men in a field and what is taken when is left, right? You know about that, right? Yes. People say it's the rapture, right? Yeah.

Yeah, it's not. Just go to Matthew 24 and Luke 17 and find the parallels. It's like verse 37 and verse 26. Find the parallels between the two chapters and read through and you'll see the context is the ones who are taken are the wicked, not the good. And they ask Jesus in Luke 17 where are they taken and he answers the question.

Where the body is, the vultures gather. That's when they're taken. The wicked are taken first according to Jesus in Matthew 13. The two men in a field, one is taken, one is left. That's the wicked who are taken. They're taken to a place of destruction. And this is the consummation of the age at the end of the age which Jesus says is when the harvest occurs when the good are taken and the bad are taken.

That's only in reference to the end of the age which is his single return, not double return. Okay? I can go on and on. But you see? All right. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. And the cross reference that I was referring to for Matthew 25, 31 was Revelation 19.

In Revelation 19 and I thought there was a passage in that chapter where it said he's going to return. Tell you what. We've got, there's the breaks. I've got to interrupt you. Try this.

Email me with all of that in bullet points. Now take a look. Okay? All right, buddy? Okay. All right. Please do that.

Okay. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages for the last segment of the hour. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Let me welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Courtney because we lost her a little bit there.

We got going. Okay, Courtney, are you there? Hey.

Yeah, I'm here. All right. Okay.

So I forgot where we were, but something about the book of Revelation and women pastors and great harlot. And I think it was it, but I'm not sure. Did I answer that?

No. Well, I mean, you answered that part. But then I asked you like a question that went with it about if you ever heard of Semiramis. And you were like, oh, I heard that somewhere.

So I researched it during the break. Okay. And one article says there's no connection.

Another one says there is between it and Ashtoreth. So I had to do more research. Okay.

That's all I can tell you. Okay. Because I was going to say, no, there's no connection. But I went, oh. Right. So I had to see. But, you know, okay, that's all I can tell you. That's all I can tell you. Sorry. Well, do me a favor. And it's really long.

You don't have to watch the whole thing. But have you ever heard of a guy on YouTube called Spencer Smith? I don't know. I've talked to so many people. Well, he says stuff. Yeah, he says stuff about this.

So if you ever have a little bit of time and you want to, you know, just to have your take on it. His name is Spencer Smith and it's called Third Adam, Rise of the Divine Feminine. There's more than one Third Adam. He has different documentaries. It sounds like a cultic. The one that talks about.

He's like a cultist. That's usually what he talks against. Oh, against. Okay. All right. Yeah.

You have to send me the information and I can check it out. Okay. Yeah.

I'm 67. I just learned a concept people are referring to. It's a vague concept called vacation and retirement. And these two things are confusing to me. I don't understand those concepts.

So we'll see what happens if I can get to stuff. Well, we'll let you go on vacation, but you're not allowed to retire. So there you go. Yeah.

I'll retire when I'm not breathing anymore. All right. Okay. Thank you. All right.

God bless. Okay. Bye. All right.

Now let's get to Andre from Missouri, I guess. Welcome. You're on the air.

Yes. How are you doing today? Oh, hang in there, man. Hang in there.

What do you got, buddy? I have a question over in the Gospel of John chapter three and verse five. It says where it says, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. I have read, you got lots of stuff on your website about baptism, and I've been reading it for a while, and I still can't quite understand what it means by born of the water. I'm still kind of stuck on that, confused on what they mean by born of the Word. There's different interpretations of this, and some say that the word water there is in reference to the Word because it talks about this in, I believe it's Titus 3.5.

Let me see if I'm right. Right. Yeah, the washing of regeneration, renewing of the Spirit.

Some say it has the Spirit work. I've heard different things. My view, and I'll just tell you my view, what I believe, and my view is not held by the majority of people. The majority of people do not agree with me on this, so I'm just giving you a heads up because you're talking to a guy on the radio named Slick, and most people don't agree with my understanding of this. Okay.

I think it's simpler than what people are making. This is my opinion. So in verse 3, Jesus said, truly, truly, you're going to be born again. Nicodemus said, how can a man be born when he's old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb.

Second time. So Nicodemus is thinking of the natural birth. Jesus responds, truly, unless you're born of the water and the Spirit, you can't enter a second time into God.

Okay. But then Jesus says something interesting. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. So he's talking about which is born of the flesh is flesh is what Nicodemus was referring to.

The womb. Right. And that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. That's something different. So I see Jesus referring to the water and the Spirit as the flesh and the Spirit as the water of the womb.

You've got to be born naturally and spiritually. That's my opinion of what it means. That's what I honestly believe it means. I could be wrong because the majority of people don't agree with that. Okay? Okay.

Okay. That makes sense a whole lot. That makes a whole lot of sense. To be born of the physical verse. But there's some other issues here. Because sometimes people will bring this up to me, and Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, and they'll say that I'm wrong. I say, well, maybe I am.

But I say, let's work with your position, I'll say. Let's say the water there means baptism. That's what they wanted to say. Okay. It doesn't say baptism. It doesn't say that. But you're saying it means baptism. But I'm not allowed to say it's the water of the womb in the context of what seems to be speaking of. But you're saying it's water of baptism, which is not in the context.

But anyway. Right. So whose baptism is it referring to? Well, it would have to be John the Baptist's baptism, right? Well.

Right. Did John the Baptist's baptism save him? Is that what Jesus is referring to? John the Baptist's baptism? Well, they say, no, it's not John the Baptist's.

It's a Trinitarian baptism later on. Well, how do you know that from there? You're reading into the text an awful lot. And so I ask these questions, and it turns out the other position has some serious challenges to it. And so I could go on more, but you see? All right. I see. Okay. I see now, man. Okay.

They have a whole lot. I thank you so much. But just remember that majority Christians don't believe with me, and far greater theologians have to arrive at different conclusions. I'm just giving you a warning, okay? Okay. Well, I thank you for your time. Thank you so much. You're welcome, man. God bless. All right.

Let's get to next longest waiting is Eric from Charlotte, North Carolina. Eric, welcome in here. Thank you, Matt. Thank you for your ministry. Thanks for taking my call.

No problem, man. Oh, wow. You opened a can of worms the way you explained that. Sean III, I'm going to leave you alone. Don't want to disagree with you on it, but you got some issues. Yeah. I know. You know, I say to people, bring your toes. Trust me. I'll step on them. You know?

Well, oh, boy. The dots aren't connecting. I'll leave you at that maybe on another call. Sure. Yeah. You're leaving out some incredibly important dots there.

I can see how you came to the conclusion, but you're leaving out some very important things, and I can see why you did come to that conclusion. But anyway. Well, hey. Call back tomorrow. Do what you want to talk about now. Call back tomorrow, and let's talk about it.

Tell me why you disagree. I'm totally open to that. All right? I love the fact that you're open, and I love people with a mind like that. Some people just aren't willing to be challenged. Oh, man. I tell people, look, if I have a booger in my nose, I want to know it.

Please tell me. Well, I say I'm open to being challenged because I'm married. So, you know, it just goes with the territory. Yeah. But at any rate, what do you got, buddy?

What's up? I typically stay... I'm a K-I-S-S, keep it simple son type of person when it comes to the matters of the end times, the return of Christ and such. One thing that I've observed over the years is that people who have studied these matters for decades and decades, these scholars on the matter of the end times, these scholars, brilliant men that I respect greatly, they differ. And because they differ, that tells me there's a lot that they really don't know. You may be right on this area, but you're wrong on that area and vice versa, you know, the switch of that.

And so it's because of that, I typically take a very kiss, keep it simple son attitude. I usually steer clear of a lot of this stuff because of the confusion, but because of having said that, I say, I believe that I keep it simple by saying, Christ is coming back. He's coming back for us. That's all that I need to know right now. Do you have a comment or question or anything?

Yes. What I need for you to do is earlier you were speaking to the gentleman, the first caller there, and you asked the question, would you like to give, you said, Hey, I have a list of scriptures. Would you like to hear them? And I was waiting for that. And the guy said, no, I'm going to go and listen to the program or something like that. I said, Oh, doggone it. I'm going to have to call Matt and tell him, just give those lists of scriptures that you had on the ready.

And he blew it for me because I really didn't want to call you. But if you wouldn't mind just going down all the lists of scriptures that you were going to give him so I can hear them in sequence and put them together, I really appreciate that. Well, sure. So during the break I opened up a file to write an article. The file is titled list of scriptures on the return of Christ and the rapture. So I'm putting them in, literally working on it now. I often do that.

I'll often work on articles literally while I'm talking, but I do. You say list of scriptures referring to the rapture? Yes. So one of them is Acts one, nine through 11, that talks about the return. Acts one, nine through 11. Matthew 24, one through 31. Matt 24, one through 31, did you say?

Yes. And also verses 37 through 41. 37 through 41. It's actually Matthew 24, one through 41, but I'd break it up there and all that. Got it.

Got it. And Matthew 17, 26 through 37. 26 through 37. And also, let's see, not particularly order, but Matthew 25, 31, which I think the guy brought up was a good point.

And then. Matt 25, 31. Matthew 13, 30. Matthew 13, 30. Versus 40 through 42. 40 through 42. And then also 2 Peter 3, 10.

2 Peter 3, 10. Yeah, these are the ones I'm just listing out. But what I'm going to do is write an article that goes through them. I'll list them and then I'll explain what to do with them in the article so that you show it before Preacher Bradford doesn't work. Okay. And when I go into CARM, I pretty much can be summed up a lot in list of scriptures referring to the rapture.

That's on your CARM file, right? Not yet. I'm working on the article. Oh. Yeah, I'm writing it. Oh, you're working on that? Yeah, I started it during the break. Okay.

Well, before this particular article that you're now writing, did you have a particular search for previous before this one right here? What's another good one on your CARM? Okay, I'll tell you, but it's going to mess you up. All right? No, it ain't. It's going to mess you up. All right? So it is.

It's going to mess you up. Okay. So look up on CARM two ages in support of all millennialism.

In support. Yeah. Of all millennialism. That's a detailed article. An examination of this age and the age to come.

Do it that way. It's titled an examination. Is that the same? Is that in the same?

Is that in the same thing? This is the same one. I read it back in 2017.

I forgot the title. An examination of this age and the age to come in support of all millennialism. If you go through that and you map stuff out, you will be challenged.

It'll challenge you. Okay. We're out of time, buddy. All right? All right. Okay, buddy. So God bless. All right. Hey, everybody. We're out of time. May the Lord bless you. And by his grace, we're back on the air tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. Hey, Drew from Kentucky. Give me a call and talk about that stuff. Hey, everybody. Have a great evening. Talk to you later.