Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network Podcast. I've heard of the concept and so I've looked it up and I meant to write a whole article on the concept of resting and vacation. It's a weird concept people have where they actually sit around and do nothing, especially after they retire.

So I'm not used to that concept and I'll undoubtedly be working tomorrow and Friday. I just do. Because otherwise, sit around.

Do what? Watch TV. Now a lot of people like to watch sports games. I'm not knocking you if you like doing that.

Okay, good for you. A sports game is great. But for me, oh man, I just can't think of too many more things that are boring. But my wife, she grew up with four brothers and she's used to having the sports games on all the time. She said when she grew up and she married me and she goes, you don't watch any sports.

I go, nope. She had to kind of go through withdrawals a little bit. So she has some fond memories of that, which is good for her. I'm like, okay, that's good. So anyway, worthless info. Hey look, if you want to give me a call, like I said, 877-207-2276. You can also email me at info at karm.org and just put in the subject line, radio comment, radio question. So sometimes, on Fridays, I'll do hate mail and whacko mail and stuff like that and do Q&A in the emails. This week is whacked because it's a holiday weekend and our accounts go down, everything goes down because that's just how it works.

That's fine. So the calls aren't as many either, but maybe you never know what'll happen. You never know. That reminds me, I was working out at the gym today and I was listening to the Mariolatrists. Oh man, you know, Mary's the mother. No, no, no. Mary's the mother.

No, man, messed up again. Mary's the spouse of the Holy Spirit. I'm like, oh man, what did he get married? What, she, you know, she has two husbands now, the Holy Spirit and Joseph. I mean, how does this work?

I'm going to do some research on it. You know, it's like, it's just, it's so dumb. I'm sorry, but it is. You know, it's the spouse of the Holy Spirit, the mother of God. Here's millions of prayers simultaneously spoken and thought all over the world and can answer them. I mean, just like, who is this Mary?

It's not the Mary of the scriptures. So I had fun listening to that. I always do. You know, most people, I got issues.

Most people, when they want to relax, they turn on the sports game. Me, hey, can I listen to heresy? My wife just stares at me like I'm a moron. Something's wrong with me. And she, I'm very good at distinguishing between the different levels of disbelief combined with levels of what she thinks I'm a moron at different times, you know, because, you know, we've talked, I said, hey, how do you describe your husband when you go to these girl meetings? You know, what's your husband like?

She just kind of stares. Well, uh, well, still, I get a kick out of it. Well, you tell him I like to listen to heretics?

She goes, no, I don't say that because it might not want to be my friends if I'm married to someone like you. So, uh, I get a kick out of all of this stuff, you know, cause some people think I got a screw loose. I got probably a couple of guests that are blown too, but that's okay. I don't mind. It's a lot of fun. So, uh, but you know what?

I like it. I like listening to heresy. Me and I am so put together certainly. And, uh, I like science fiction. So aliens and heresy are my two best to go to places for having a good time. So how many people do you know when they want to have a good time?

It's it's aliens, movies and heresies, probably nobody. So, uh, I was thinking, you know, I was ever single and dating, you know, and she was questioning me. So what are your strengths?

Well, I chase people going into churches, stand out in front of them and hold up signs and you know, witnessed anybody I can anytime. Those are strengths. Was this something I said? Where are you going? You know? So, uh, at any rate, that's what it is.

I'm having fun. All right. All right. All right. Let's get on the calls.

We have three open lines or two open lines, actually. Eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Let's get to Eli from Wisconsin. Eli, welcome. You are on the air. Hey, Matt, this is actually Eli from North Carolina.

I happen to be in Wisconsin. So that's all right. It's Eli Ayala, just in case you don't remember. Boy, your voice is different on the radio. I, my voice is different.

Oh man. Okay. Yeah.

So now it's, it's me. It's been a while since I called the show because I usually just give you a buzz on your, on yourself. I'm just thinking of you about calling you today about doing a little bitty video work together. So maybe we'll talk. Yeah. Hey, well let's definitely do that.

I would love to do that. I have a quick question. Um, so I was listening to an attempted, uh, reputation of Calvinism, more specifically limited atonement by Sam Shamoon. And he used the, uh, he used the story of, um, the last supper where Jesus says, this is, this comes as the blood I pour out, right? The new covenant.

And he says that he pours this out for you all. And Judas was present, which entails that Judas was part of that, that he died for Judas. But of course Judas rejects Christ and so on and so forth. So I would respond to the idea that Jesus, the cup poured out is the covenant I make with you. He's talking to his disciples that Judas is present. And so that would entail that Judas is included cause he's talking specifically to those that are with him, uh, at the last time. Well, let's just say that, uh, Sam, um, his, the stitches in his garments are coming loose.

Okay. And his bearings need to be regressed. So, uh, he's gone off a deep end in a lot of areas, but, um, so I would ask, well, what's exact versus he talking to, I'm talking about, I always like to know what the exact versus, what do you know where, what's when he said, and I respond, I don't remember the specific one, but I know for a fact that it was a reference to the last supper. So when Jesus says, this cup is the blood of the new covenant that I pour out for you all or something along those lines. Um, and Judas is there.

And so it would be weird to say that he's not referring to Judas when he's clearly referring to his disciples and Judas is at the table there. Well, let's see. Uh, he said after the supper, this is in, uh, let me make over here. Let me do this.

I'm going to check it out. So I'm going to just see if what he's saying is true. Okay. So the new covenant, go to Matthew and do my search, my Bible program, the same way took the cup after saying, after they've eaten saying this is the cup is poured out for you, uh, is the new covenant. So he's saying that that's the case poured out for you, uh, is the new covenant in my blood and behold, uh, the one betraying me is with me.

Okay. So he's saying that Jesus, then the cup, the blood was shed for, uh, for Judas. Well, um, I would say, well, the covenantally speaking, this is the issue. A covenant is a pact or agreement between two or more parties. And Judas was obviously under the covenantal direction of God and within the Abrahamic covenant and the basic, uh, Judaism covenant that God had instituted with Israel. So when Jesus instituted the supper and the covenant, uh, work, he was just doing a covenant thing. It doesn't mean that all the people in the covenant are saved because it says in John six that he knew those who, uh, were, uh, you know, faulty or were unbelievers from the beginning talking about Judas was included in that. So I would just say it's a covenant aspect he's talking about. It doesn't necessitate that Jesus bore the sins of the elect. I mean, excuse me, of the elect of Judas, particularly when you go to first Samuel three 14, it says where God says, I, I, um, I've sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquities of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. So if he wants to say that this, that, uh, math, but Luke and first Corinthians necessitate that the, he bore the sin of, of, uh, Judas, that he has to find a verse where it says he bore the sin when it said is the blood of the new covenant. It doesn't mean that he actually physically bore the sin of Judas because people covenantally can follow what God has, but not have their sins atoned for, uh, in the ultimate sense.

That's certainly possible. Okay. Okay. So, but when he talks about being pouring out to his blood, the blood of the new covenant, isn't he referring to the atonement, the death that he's about to suffer soon after? Yeah.

Yeah. And the thing about the covenant is, um, he says a new covenant, a new covenant I pour, I make with you. And he says this new covenant, when I've done research on what the new covenant is, it's really interesting because if you go to Hebrews and I still have to finish my study on this, let's come back.

Okay. So the new covenant and you go to Hebrews eight and it says, this is where I get, this is where I'm not so sure that what I've been told about the new covenant is accurate because it says behold, the days are coming, says the Lord when I will affect a new covenant with the house of Israel, the house of Judah, not like the covenant, which I made with their fathers. And he says, for this is the covenant I'll make with the house of Israel, put my laws in their hearts. So he's talking about a new covenant. Now, the question that I have here is the new covenant designated for Israel because when Jesus instituted the new covenant with his disciples, it was under the law and had to be a type of fulfillment of the new covenant of the Jeremiah 31.

So this is what I'm trying to research. So when we go to first Corinthians 11 and it talks about the blood. Okay. He says, this cup is the new covenant in my blood.

Do often do this as often as you drink it. Remembrance of me. I don't have the answers yet to this. I have to think through it. Yeah.

Sorry for throwing a monkey wrench in there. I was just thinking I was listening to a critique and uh, um, I, it, I was like, huh, I know what I appreciate about the question, uh, that he had brought up. It's that it's not from a common passage that people who reject limited atonement often bring up. It's kind of like, oh, okay, he's going here.

That's interesting. Um, and so I wanted to see, you know, what your thoughts were on that because it seems to me that if he's specifically talking about the blood that's going to be poured out, you know, contextually, I mean, he's about to be crucified shortly after. So it seemed as though he's talking specifically about establishing the covenant through his blood that involves the atonement and he says it's being poured out for you. Now logically, I suppose, and I'm thinking out loud here, Matt, logically you can say you and the plural, but that doesn't necessarily mean that when he says that he's specifically entailing Judas, since we're told in the text that he's a son of perdition. So it doesn't logically entail, although contextually it seems as though that is somewhat of a good, um, I'm going to say a data point in favor of what he's saying, but not an absolute proof against limited atonement, if that makes sense.

Right. Well, the issue here is going to raise is that new covenant is prophesied in the old Testament. And what exactly is the new covenant and the parameters of the new covenant? Because people can be entered into a covenant, but it doesn't mean they're saved. However, this says he'll write the laws on your hearts that implies are saved.

So if that's a new covenant with them, does that mean Judas had his laws of God written on his heart, which were deemed? And the answer is no, it becomes problematic. Hold on. We've got a break. Okay. Hey folks, be right back after these messages, please stay tuned and we'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on the air with Eli. Hey Eli, how you doing man?

I'm doing good. So the thing I would want to know is what are, what are the boundaries, restrictions and requirements of the new covenant? That is one of the things that I need to know to see, cause this is one of the issues I've been thinking about studying.

I haven't, maybe this column motivate me to do a study. The term new covenant occurs 17 times in the Bible. And so what I'd like to do is go through and see what, what parameters, what are the boundaries of the covenant requirements? So what now, what do you mean by, uh, by boundaries?

Cause I'm trying to think, I'm trying to put my head in the shoes of someone who uses this argument. So I understand that within covenant, uh, you have, um, you know, people who are associated with the covenant visibly, but of course internally there are people who have not been given a, you know, a heart of flesh. They still have a heart of stone, right? So we have people who are circumcised in Israel, but that doesn't mean they're saved. But in the context of the last supper, it seems that it's specifically, it's what Christ is doing, not so much focusing on how we enter it, but that Christ is establishing it in his blood for you.

The you is plural. So that would, at least that would minimally entail more than one disciple. And then of course all those who would then be placed in the covenant. So I think logically, I don't think his interprets, the Sam's interpretation entails that includes Judas because we've been constantly given the qualifier that Judas is the son of perdition. So you can safely assume that while he says this is being poured out for you, we could in our mind, so to speak, exclude Judas. Cause we kind of know that, you know, what's up with Judas, but just linguistically and contextually, it seems as though, yeah, it would include Judas cause he's there and he says you and the plural. And so Judas would not have been there thinking he would not have been included in there cause he's present. You know what I mean?

Yes. And there's different senses in which the word you could be understood. There's you as a representation, you as a specific, a specific limited group. The reason I want to talk or study the new covenant aspect is the boundaries. For example, a covenant in marriage is till death do your part. You know, you're to be faithful one to another and the covenant can be broken. So there are different kinds of covenants.

Some are unilateral and some are, are not, some are monolithic. So in the issue of the new covenant, I want to know if it's like the propitiatory work, which was, which the log with this way, when the high priest would go in on Yom Kippur once a year and he would fulfill the covenant requirements that God had to Israel, he'd go in and behind the veil and he sprinkled the blood on the mercy seat and the sins of the nation of Israel were propitiated. And so this did not mean though that every individual had all their sins removed. And so, because there are many there who were unbelievers, you know, in the ultimate sense, even though they may have been practicing Jews, they rejected God and there were ungodly people within that, the nation of Israel was propitiated. So this is what I'm talking about is what's going on in the nature of that covenant. Because if we can find out the boundaries of it, we'll know like the propitiatory sacrifice that occurred on Yom Kippur. Did it necessitate that such individuals included in the covenant were saved?

No, it did not. How do we know this isn't the same kind of a thing in the covenant? That's what I'm saying. Right.

Okay. That's a great point. I didn't think of it that way. Cause he, so the high priest would atone for all of Israel, but that doesn't mean all of Israel was saved and literally forgiven. There's an individual aspect there that needs to be fulfilled on the part of an individual Israelite. But of course, working in tandem with God's grace and what it's essentially regenerated. Okay.

That's actually very useful. There's unilateral covenants where God binds himself by his word that cannot be broken when he passes himself through the torn animals. And then there's a type of covenant that God gives with Israel. If you remain, then you'll be fine.

If you don't, you're going to have these things happen. So there are conditional covenants and then there's covenants that terminate. So I'm not saying let's put all this into this verse. It's just that when you say the new covenant, it automatically opens up the door of what the nature of that new covenant is. And if we can find out the boundaries of it, the expectations of it, then we could make a better assessment. For example, if we're to say that the new covenant, which seems to include forgiveness of sins, spiritual transformation, etcetera, then does it mean then that the disciples obtained forgiveness of sins by the supper? Well, of course not. So then in what sense is the covenant for them all? It's for them all, if all of them participate in the boundaries, but it's not if they don't. You see?

Right. And it's important to understand that if they participate in the boundaries, I'd imagine Sam would say, yes, Christ died for Judas, but it was dependent upon Judas to participate in the boundaries via faith. Now, even if that's true, that doesn't speak to where faith comes from. In other words, it doesn't initiate against the reform perspective that, yes, you can't be saved without faith. But if you do have faith, that is also a gift of God's grace. And you get into the whole issue of whether it is resistible or irresistible, which is a different but connected discussion. And that passage alone considering the nuance of the nature of atonement doesn't do it.

And I think just as you're speaking, it's making me think of the dangers of proof texting. Because when you use a verse like this, there's so much packed into the notion of new covenant or atonement and all those other related issues. So that's very helpful. Yes. And furthermore, he says in John 6 54 and 55, he says, whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life. Okay. So if we're to take this and work with it, and we're to, we could take this different directions, and we're to say, okay, so whoever eats his, drinks his blood and eats his flesh has eternal life. Did Jesus eat his blood and drink his, take the body and blood?

Okay. Did he do that? Well, we would assume yes. Does that mean he had eternal life?

Of course not. The only way to have eternal life is if your sins are taken care of. But they weren't taken care of because we know from John 6 64, Jesus knew from the beginning those who who did not believe in him and who would betray him. So this is those qualifiers that help us govern how we interpret what's being said in individual instances where it talks about the application of the covenant because constantly we're told that you like he knew who was with them, but he knew Judas was, you know, the son of perdition or that give. So keeping that in mind, we have to interpret these passages in light of the divine commentary on the nature of Judas's status. That's right. Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. And furthermore, one of the things I ask people is if Jesus paid for their people's sins, this is just another issue of logic and scripture because in Colossians 2 14 he canceled out the certificate of debt, the carograph fund, which I believe and most everybody else I've ever seen and heard talked to believe that's the sin debt that was dealt with that was canceled at the cross. Okay, well it says Jesus equated sin with legal debt. You know, my, our father heart in heaven, forgive us our debts, forgive us our sins in Matthew 12 four and Luke 11 12 six 11 four respectively.

Okay. So then the question is, did Jesus cancel the sin debt for Judas? And if he did, then why would you just go to hell? Because when there is no law, there is no sin or there's no sin is not imputed.

So if it's sin that is canceled in this sense, then how can you go to hell? It's a whole nother problem that this attack brings. Okay.

It has to be solved. Sure. Anyway. Okay. All right. Thanks a lot, man. I appreciate it. All right, buddy. Talk to you later, man. God bless. All right. God bless, brother.

God bless. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We'll get to Bob, Louisiana. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is easy. All you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. Let's get to Bob.

Whoops, wrong thing. I keep doing that. Bob from Louisiana. Bob, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, how are you today?

Aha, it's you. I'm doing okay. How are you doing?

I'm fine. You remember talking to me Monday? Yeah.

I remember talking to you and saying that you couldn't argue your way out of a wet paper bag if it was greased and it was at a 45 degree angle downhill with neon light pointing the way and a chain pulling you out with a compass saying go that way. Yeah, I remember that. Yes, pretty close to what you said. But I was looking at, I was looking at John, you know, 14-6. Yeah.

And it says no one comes to the father but through me. Yeah. You're familiar with that?

Oh yes, very familiar. Uh huh. But the gospel I preach, I preach it to get you to the father so you can come to the father through me. Through you personally? Yeah, by the gospel. The gospel being the power of God unto salvation to them that believe.

Yeah. Since I'm a preacher then you can. No, you're not a preacher of the true God or the true gospel. No, you're a false convert. You're a false teacher.

You know, I've told you this before. Because you deny the trinity and you deny that Jesus Christ is God in flesh. So you're not a true Christian.

You know, my being offensive was telling you. No, Jesus was anointed by God. By God the father and the Holy Spirit actually. Yeah. By the Holy Spirit actually. Yeah. Well, the father of the baby that Mary gave birth to was the Holy Spirit according to Luke. I'm sure of that.

What? Yeah, but if Jesus and you hear Jesus say the words, I am the way, the truth and the life, is that not the father himself speaking? No, because Jesus is not the father. But he said the father in me does the works. See, you just caught yourself. You said Jesus is the father, but then you said Jesus and the father. No. So Jesus.

Go ahead. I said the father is in him speaking, but it's not Jesus. That's those are not Jesus's words. What I'm saying is I am the way, the truth and the life are words that God says himself. So did Jesus actually say the words?

I don't have any clue. I wasn't there. Well, it says you do not believe that I am in the father of fathers and made the words that I say to him. So Jesus said he was speaking. He spoke words. So do you believe Jesus spoke words? Yeah, but the father could have been speaking through him. I mean, he said it might be the father.

Okay, hold on. So Jesus and the father, according to you, are different entities, different beings, right? Yeah, Jesus is the son of God. Okay, so Jesus is not God to you. So now when Jesus speaks, he is speaking.

He's actually doing it. When he sweats, he's the one sweating is not God the father sweating. When he would go to the bathroom, it was Jesus going to the bathroom, not God the father. When Jesus is speaking, he is speaking, not God the father. Okay, it could be the father through him. Well, can you show me a verse where it's actually the father's words in him? Well, he's told in Luke, don't worry about what you say or what you don't speak, because you won't, your father will speak through you at that hour, what he won't say it or something like that. Well, if you don't have a specific verse, then we can't examine it. Because very often what people do is they just kind of quote something that's not really accurate.

It's making up as they go. Okay. I can look it up. But I'm sure it's in Luke chapter 10, verse chapter 11 somewhere. Okay, Luke 10.

Okay. And in Luke 10 21. He says, Jesus, rejoice greatly in the Holy Spirit and said, I praise you, Oh, Father, Lord of heaven and earth that you've hidden these things from the wise. Yes, Father, for this as well pleasing in your sight.

And then all things have been handed over to me by the father, my father, and no one knows the son except the son, except the father, and the father is except the son, and anyone to whom the son will reveal him. Okay. So I'm trying to find a verse that says what you said. I'm not seeing it.

I can find it. I got the Bible here. You've heard me talk so many times with people in chat rooms.

And you know, I always say to them, what verse is that? I'm always doing that. You should know better. You should know. You're right. You're right. Okay.

But I wasn't saying I wasn't really planning to go here. I was gonna talk about what Jesus, the Father speaking through him. The father is the way the truth and the lie. No, Jesus says I'm the way the truth and the lie. Nobody comes to the father but through him.

So that he says he's the way. Yeah, but I preach the gospel. I preach the gospel so that you can get to the father though, Steve. That's the purpose of preaching the gospel. Now, Bob, you're not a true Christian. You're a false convert. If you died right now, you'd be eternally damned and I don't want you to die right now. I don't want you to be damned. You need to come to Christ.

Let me run something by you, okay? Let's see if you can answer this, according to your theology, okay? It's really simple. It's John 14 23. Jesus answered. He says if anyone loves me, he will keep my word and my father will love him and we will come to him and make our abode with him. So the father and Jesus are gonna come to the person and live in them, okay?

That's what it says, right? Live in them or to be with them, which is to make their abode with them, okay? Well, with them. I mean, Jesus could come and his father could also, right? No, it says make your abode with him. It's gonna live with them and it means to be indwelling because the second Corinthians six sixteen says I dwell in them and walk among them. Ephesians three seventeen says Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. So Jesus is talking about living in a person.

So here's my question. How does Jesus, according to you who's not God, how does he live literally in millions of people, literally, simultaneously with God the father? How does he do that if he's not God? The spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is the Holy Spirit and if I have the Holy Spirit, I have the spirit that raised Jesus from the dead in me, so therefore that case would be true.

So you didn't answer the question. How is Jesus himself living in millions of people simultaneously? Jesus. How's he doing that if he's not divine? It's the spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, the Holy Spirit. Jesus prophesied that he would raise himself from the dead.

That's John two nineteen through twenty one. So the father raised Jesus, Jesus raised himself and the Holy Spirit raised him. That's Trinitarian theology right there.

Now I'm asking you, how does Jesus himself? You know I don't agree with that. You know I don't agree with Trinitarian theology. I know because you don't know who the true God is. You don't know who the true God is. The father of Jesus has to be the true God doesn't he? Jesus claims to be God and he's called God.

Okay. He said his father was greater than me. John fourteen twenty eight. Yes because he was made under the law, Galatians four four and for a little while more than the angels Hebrews two six. He did not say that the father is of a different nature but in a greater position.

That's all that is. Okay. Yeah and Jesus is in the high priest position now right? So you say that Jesus is the son of God right? The term son of God to you means he's not God right?

Okay. Yeah that means he's not God. Okay so if the term son of God means he's not God then what does the term son of man mean? Born of a woman to me is what it means.

Alright. Well let's look at John five eighteen. This is what John the apostle says. For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking to kill him because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was calling God his own father making himself equal with God. John the apostle gives us the commentaries calling God his own father making himself equal with God. So do you agree with John that Jesus was calling God his own father making himself equal with God?

He was calling his own father but I don't think he was making himself equal with God. So you deny what John the Apostle said in John 5.18. We've got a break so hold on we'll get back to you.

And take a look at John 5.18 and see what it says because you have to agree with it or you're making God a liar. We'll be right back folks after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright buddy, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Bob.

Are you still there? Yes sir, and I found that scripture in Luke, it's in chapter 12 verses 11 and 12. It says when they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities do not worry about what you're to speak, the Holy Spirit will teach you.

I think that's the case. If Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life, I believe it was the Holy Spirit had told him or taught him what to say. So he was really talking about himself. What he says there is that the Holy Spirit will teach them.

Don't change it to make it say something it doesn't say. But John 5.18, so according to John the Apostle, Jesus was calling God his own father, making himself equal to God. Do you agree with John the Apostle? I agree it says that, but I don't think saying God is my father makes me equal with God. Jesus was calling God his own father, making himself equal to God. Well I call God my own father.

Well then what's the difference here? I wasn't born in Bethlehem. I wasn't the savior of the world maybe.

Well the context is very simple. He is healing people. Pick up your pallet and walk in John 5.12. And Jesus found him in the temple and said, Behold, you have become well.

Do not sin anymore. The Jews were persecuting Jesus because of this. He answered, My father is working until now and I myself am working. For this reason the Jews were seeking to kill him. Well one was because he broke the Sabbath, but not really. He said, You can't do any work.

You can't do any work in the Sabbath. He said, Well I am working. He is doing the will of the Father. Now John the apostle then makes this commentary because he says he was calling God his own father, making himself equal to God. That's the commentary that John the apostle is giving us. So do you believe John the apostle was wrong at this point?

I am not sure a scribe or somebody didn't add that on Matt. So in other words it speaks to the contrary what you believe and now all of a sudden it is a scribal error or something like that. So what it means is you get what it actually says and you deny it.

That's what you do. I deny that he is calling himself God or making himself equal to God. That's what John the apostle says. John 5.18. Well John could have been wrong. Oh okay. So John the apostle could be wrong but you are right.

And John the apostle was with him and knew him and was inspired by God to write this. And yet somehow he is wrong and you are in Louisiana. You are the one who is right.

I could be, yeah. You see when someone says something like that there is no arguing, there is no reasoning anymore. Because it doesn't matter what I present to you. Now all you have to do is say your understanding of God's word is better than the apostle who wrote it.

I mean okay. So now what do we do with your incredible arrogance and your pride? See God hides himself from the proud. And here what you are doing is judging God's word based on your personal feelings and expectations. And so he is going to hide himself to you and he is going to let you have the judgment upon yourself and the hardening of your mind.

That's what you are doing. Romans 1 talks about this. The judgment of God is upon you because you are denying the truth of who God is. And this is proof. Because when I read this to you and show it to you and tell you where to define this.

Where the commentary of John the apostle himself is that Jesus was calling God his own father making himself equal to God. Right there is what it says. You just deny it. This means you are abiding in your sin and your rebellion against God.

That's your opinion right? Well you deny that it's true. You deny it's truth. John the apostle wrote this. He's calling God his own father making himself equal to God. So you disagree with John the apostle who clearly says that Jesus is calling God his own father making himself equal to God.

You deny it. So who is wrong? God's word or you?

Their understanding is for us wrong. Because Jesus would never claim to be God man. So yes he did. In John 8.24, unless you believe that I am you will die in your sins. John 8.58 before Abraham was I am. And Paul the apostle called him God. John called him God. Hebrews calls him God. Titus calls him God.

It's all kinds of stuff. But here John the apostle who knew Jesus personally, knew the culture, said he was calling God his own father making himself equal with God. So you deny that.

This is why you are under judgment. You don't believe God's word. You are essentially calling God a liar. Why would I be calling God a liar? I would never call God a liar. Oh is John the apostle a liar?

I don't know. I didn't know John. But Jesus isn't calling himself equal to God. Yes, well John the apostle says he was. Because he was calling God his own father making himself equal to God. So John the apostle is saying yeah he is calling himself equal to God. Because that is what the phrase means. That is how John sees it.

Well who was it that told Moses to go to Pharaoh? We are talking about this. The issue of Jesus. And typically what people will do who are stuck like you.

They will do just what you did. Go someplace else in the scripture. Find another pattern in scripture. Then take it out of the context of someplace else and put it here. And then say see this doesn't mean what it says right here.

That is all you are going to do. And I just hold your feet to the fire instead of that. But you just said something about I AM was before Abraham. Didn't you? Yes before Abraham was I AM and they want to kill him for that.

John in 58. Why did they want to kill him? But Jesus knew that I AM had talked to Moses. Exactly. He said before Abraham was I AM. Why do they want to kill him for saying that?

I have no idea. I don't think they should have wanted to. Did they tell why they wanted to kill him? Two chapters later. Can they tell?

I can read it to you. Two chapters later. Yes because in John 8.58 and 59 before Abraham was I AM they picked up stone to throw at him. But Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. But Jesus knew who? Interesting. He said this while he was in the temple of God.

He says I AM. Makes it all the more powerful. There is no more mentioning of stoning of any kind until John 10.

In that case why? Because he says I and the father are one. The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.

Okay. Now Jesus is going to ask them. I showed many good works of the father.

For which of them are you stoning me? The Jews answered for good work we don't stone you but for blasphemy because you being a man make yourself out to be God. That would have been blasphemy if he had done that though man. Well where did he say whatever it was he said to make them think that? What did they say? What did he say that made them think that? I don't know. He cast the devil out of the guy. If you don't know then you don't understand the text.

You don't understand what is going on. This is the question I ask people. When they go to John 8 58 59 they want to kill him for saying before Abraham was I AM.

John 10 30 I and the father are one. They want to kill him again. I ask people who deny that he is God. I say why did they want to kill him? I tell you why. Because he is claiming to be God.

I ask you and others where was it? Show me the exact verse where they were thinking he was claiming to be God. If you say you don't know then you don't understand what the text is saying. You don't even understand it.

If you don't understand it you don't have the right to interpret it and say he is not God. You have to be able to show us. I can tell you. I can tell you where they are. John 8 58.

I can tell you why. Jesus said before Abraham was I AM. He wasn't talking about himself. Before Abraham was I AM. It is present, active, indicative, first person, singular in the Greek. This is a translation out of the Septuagint when God says I AM that I AM in Exodus 3 14 and 15.

So the Septuagint the Greek equivalent. So Jesus is using the same tense and the same form to designate the very name of God because Yahweh, Jehovah, means I AM. Jesus had to claim to be a man because he talked about his mother and his brothers.

He couldn't be claiming to be God. We know that he is a man. But he also said I will be with you always even at the end of the earth. Matthew 28 20.

He says he will indwell us. John 14 23. He is called God.

He himself will dwell. John 5 18. John the apostle says he was calling God his own father. Making himself equal to God and you just flat out deny it.

I would show you where they want to kill him and why they want to kill him. Because he is claiming to be God. So let me ask you a question. Did the Jews believe that Jesus was actually God?

Did these Jews, these people who killed him, did they actually believe he was God in flesh? I hope not. The answer is no. So you agree with them don't you?

I hope not. You agree with them. They want to kill him because he is claiming to be God. They deny that he was God. And so you agree with the Jews who murdered Jesus.

He is not God. See how bad it is? You are in such trouble. Look I don't hate you. I'm not trying to mock you.

I'm just telling you. If you die believing what you do you will suffer eternal damnation. Because you do not have the true God. You do not have the true Christ and because of it you don't have the true gospel.

You are lost. I'm not being mean. I'm not name calling.

I'm informing you. I just prove to you from scripture where he is called God. By the apostle John. All you do is say well John was wrong. Calling God his own father. Making himself equal to God.

Well he wasn't you say. Do you judge God's word? You go to it when it suits you. When you talk about the Holy Spirit will speak through them or give them the remembrance. In Matthew 12 or Luke 12 you have no problem going there. Because it suits you but when it doesn't suit you then all of a sudden God's word is wrong. This is why you are under judgment. You are under judgment. The scribes have scrambled it a little bit man.

There is no textual variant there. Jesus can't claim to be God being born of a woman though man. That's what you say. But see what you are doing is you are making a philosophical assumption and you are submitting God's word to it.

That's what you are doing. When the Bible clearly tells us that he was calling God his own father making himself equal to God. We also know that the phrase in the Greek.

I'm not going to say this quickly because we have 45 seconds. The phrase in the Hebrew call upon the name of Yahweh is a prayer to Yahweh God Almighty. That phrase is translated in the Greek Septuagint by the Jews into the phrase in Greek call upon the name of the Lord. That phrase, the whole phrase is applied to Jesus in 1 Corinthians 1-2. Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord, Jesus. The phrase call upon the name of the Lord is a reference to God Almighty and it's applied to Christ. You go to Hebrews 1-8 where it says God is Father speaking. He says of the Son he says thy throne O God is forever and ever. He's clearly called God everywhere and you continue to deny it. And Jesus says unless you believe that I am you will die in your sins.

This is why you're in your judgment. Gotta go there's music. Alright, thank you man. I'll catch you later. There you go. Hope you all have a great weekend.

Hope that was informative. And may the Lord bless you. Pray for Bob.

He certainly needs to be awakened from his stupor of damnation. Have a great weekend. Talk to you Monday. God bless. Bye. Another program powered by the Truth Network.