Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276.

Tech is sometimes irritating when something doesn't work and you don't know why and can't figure it out. If you want to give me a call on May 17, 2024, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. All you have to do is direct an email to info at karm.org. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is direct an email to info at karm.org. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is direct an email to info at karm.org. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is direct an email to info at karm.org. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is direct an email to info at karm.org. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is direct an email to info at karm.org. All you have to do is direct an email to info at karm.org. All you have to do is direct an email to info at karm.org. If you want to know where the debate stuff is, the information, if you want a better grasp on it quickly over the phone, all you have to do is go to karm.org forward slash debates and you'll see there it'll say upcoming debates. You can check it out. Click on the link and it'll take you right there. See, upcoming debates on 531 and all the info you need is right there. You can put some maps and some stuff in there like that.

So, easy peasy. It's Friday and so sometimes on Fridays we do whack-o-mail. I haven't gotten too much whack-o-mail lately. Whack-o-mail, you know, people got some issues there but I don't have any real good whack-o-mail but hopefully we'll be able to get some, you know, maybe in the future. Uh-oh, look at what happened there.

So, now I've got to do that in the camera. So, anyway, if you want to give me a call, like I said, 877-207-2276. All right.

We're going to have a little bit of an issue with the gimbal and there we go. Got it. All right, let's get to Anonymous from Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome. You are on the air.

Hey, good evening, brother, and hello out there in the radio line. Anyway, I was at a Bible study last night and there was one guy that said that there cannot be Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that there cannot be the comfort or, you know, his was that God that Jesus came down to show us how to live and treat each other and when he went back up to heaven, it was just, it was all, it was upside down and backwards and I was trying to explain to the guy, I was giving him scripture and uh-uh. But just if you could, I mean, we used to think about the Holy, there is a Holy Spirit, but yeah, it was everything I ever did to and he talked over the teacher and everything else. Well, it was a common maybe or whatever.

I'm not sure what you're asking, though. Was he saying the Holy Spirit is not the third person of the Trinity? Yeah, he said it's not three different and the teacher was trying to explain. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on. You got to finish your sentences. He's not three different what?

What? That there's, that they're not three, three and one, not triune God. Not triune. Because there's no way that it could be three separate, yeah. Three separate what?

Three separate Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Okay. He just kept saying, how could Jesus be all of what, you know.

We try to see the ice, you know, ice and steam and water serve three different purposes. Yeah, that's not a good, that's not a good analogy. Oh, okay. But, so was he teaching the Bible study or was he just a guy in the Bible study? No, he was, he was, he took it the whole time, you know. No, no, no.

Wait, wait, wait. Was he teaching or was he just in the study? No, he was not teaching. He was not teaching.

He was in the study. But he thought he was. Okay, and then when this. Yeah. Okay, when the discussion started, then it just became that discussion for quite a while. Yeah, it was over, you know, for the whole, it took it the whole hour of trying, you know, talk to him and he wasn't having it. Yeah, he was comparing him to different spirits in this world.

He doesn't know what he's doing. There's a lot of information that I have on CARM on the Holy Spirit and how the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. And what I would recommend is you could easily go to CARM.org forward slash Trinity. And when you do that, it will forward you. Let me do it right now.

Forward slash Trinity. And it'll take you to an article that I wrote. When did I write that? Come on.

Did I hit enter? I got the right person then. Okay. Yeah, I wrote back in 2016. And if you scroll down, and this is for anybody who might be listening who wants to debate me on the Trinity.

This is what I'm going to go to and this is what I'll ask. Because I show this table to people and nobody's able to refute it. I mean, it's just because it's what it says. But anyway, in there, you'll see where the Holy Spirit is called God. He's eternal. He's a creator, all knowing everywhere, and that he has a will, has a mind. He speaks, loves, has fellowship with. So these are the attributes of personhood. And since he's called God and he has all knowledge and he's everywhere, then he's third person of the Trinity. And so when I show this to people and I say, can you refute any of these verses?

Is this what this says? And they can't. They just deny. They don't refute. They just say, well, this isn't one of the Trinity. They just say, it doesn't work. Why not? This is exactly how you arrived at it. And they're stuck.

And I had on my t-shirt that said, Father's 356 t-shirt. I said, well, like it says, and you're trying to figure it out in our earthly minds, this just can't be done. And I'm glad it can't be. I don't want. And I have a book from church, John MacArthur, the true work of the Holy Spirit, and maybe give it to. But thank you for your help.

I didn't know quite what to ask or whatever, how to pose this question. That's okay. So he was just denying the Trinity.

And that's okay in denying that Jesus is God in flesh. I was like, I felt heart sick. I absolutely did. I was like, and not to be angry with him because he was just blinded. He was so blinded by the false stuff. Yes, he is.

He's definitely blinded. The winsome, the winsome. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, my friend. God bless you. Thank you. All right. All right.

Bye-bye. Okay. Okay. God bless.

All right. So, hey, look, we have nobody waiting. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276.

We have nobody waiting right now. So I think what I'll do is get on the email list and go over to, let's see, some emails. Let's see.

I'll just see what they say. All right. First of all, I'd like to say I love listening to your show.

I can only get the last half hour, but it's still all good. Preacher, rapture person. Okay. I know that you believe that people will go through the tribulation. Yeah, I do.

I do. Different thoughts on this, but the church has not mentioned past Revelation 3, I believe, and neither is justification by faith. So just because it's not mentioned doesn't mean it's not there.

It's still true. But nevertheless, and if your thoughts are correct on what is taken and what is left, that the bad people are taken, then why don't Jesus just take all the bad people and we don't have to worry about that tribulation? I don't know. I don't know. Why doesn't Jesus do a lot of things? I don't know.

So I wish that, I wish he would take people out now, but if he did, there'd probably be famine and plague because unbelievers do a lot of good works, keeping electricity going and cars running and things like that. So I don't know. Anyway, that part doesn't make any sense to me. I love the information on Mormonism. Good.

I try to study it the best I can. Good. But I try to talk to a Mormon, though I think I'm going to be able to get through to him and it seems like it is in Rocky III, Rocky III, where Rocky thinks he's going to beat the snot on Mr. T and he ends up getting leveled. That's awesome. That is awesome. So Mr. T, I don't know the actor's real name, but apparently he's a real good guy. He's a Christian. He goes around helping kids and speaking to kids and does a lot of good stuff. That's great. Anyway, that's not the whole purpose of this email.

I just thought I'd throw it out there since I'm sending it to you anyway. Have you ever heard of an older radio personality? Well, yeah, like me.

I'm 67. Is that an older radio personality? I have a Christian radio personality supposedly from the mid to late 80s named Bob Larson. Yeah, Bob's okay. Bob Larson's okay. I thought he was good at first and all of a sudden he went downhill. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He's okay.

He's not great, but yeah, he's okay. You can learn some stuff from him. So anyway, I enjoyed that email.

It was fun. And let's see. End Times Message. Oh, that's a whacko mail from William Branham. Branham's a non-Christian cult group.

Let's see. Please be. Praise be to God who sent this guy with a wonderful message that made the Bible a new book. Wow. That's awesome because he's got a new message. Now the Bible's a new book.

Really? Oh, I get all the people for centuries couldn't understand it. Now Branham comes along with a new message.

Now it's a new book. Wow. Oh, man. All right.

Well, hey, look. There's the break and we'll get back after these messages. So please stay tuned and we'll be right back. All right. Sorry about that. I hit a switch. Accidentally. All right.

I hope you guys can hear me. Okay. Right. So there you go. All right. My bad.

That was on me. All right. Hey, let's get on back on the air with, uh, I think that was, uh, who are we with? I remember.

Let's get the dial from Houston, Texas. Welcome. You're on the air. Yes. Hi. Yep.

Yes, I can. All right. Um, I've been listening to you for a long time, um, but I'm here with my brother and, um, we both grew up together in the same house and all that, but you have another of, um, questions about the Bible, about the authenticity of the Bible. Um, I just don't know how the best way to explain things to him as an, as an how, um, why, why should he believe in God? Or why? What? We should God.

I didn't hear it. Why should he believe in, why should he believe in God? Or even if there is that one, he ought to believe what is true. He ought to believe what is right. There's a natural thing to the issue of, of ought. You know, ought you believe two plus two is four. Well, yes, you should.

We can get into the reasons for that, but you should, if God exists, you ought to believe in him. Right. It makes sense.

Yeah. Well, his question is, how do I know about God exit? Well, where did everything come from? See, if whatever he's holding in his hand, if he's holding a thing, a phone that proves God exists, the clothes he's wearing, it proves God exists. The seat he's in proves God exists. I said, no, it doesn't.

Yes, it does. Because think about it. Whatever you hold, whatever you have came from something. Well, where'd that come from? Well, from something else. Well, where'd that come from? And it goes backwards in time. Where did this all come from?

Well, for the people. Well, where'd the earth come from and where'd the solar system come from? Where'd the universe come from? Everything that exists, exists inside a causal chain, a causal chain of events that bring us to now. Every event occurs in a context. So there are contexts in which we exist. Like I'm sitting in my office, sitting in a chair.

I have a headset on, so my existence contextually is there. Why am I here? Well, my mom and dad, they got married. Why are they?

Because they're parents. I mean, go back and back. Okay, so how far back do we go?

We go back to the cause. When we look at something that is the cause, what is the cause of all that exists? If people say that whatever exists has always existed, that is not possible. Because physical objects like we have in the universe can't always exist because, well, there's laws of physics, the second law of thermodynamics, energy's running down. If the universe were infinitely old, there'd be no usable energy in the universe. This is just a physics fact. And it would also mean an infinite amount of time had been crossed to get to now if the universe was infinitely old, and that doesn't work.

You can't cross an infinite. So the universe had a beginning. Well, what began the universe? It's either something that's self-aware or something not self-aware, something alive or something not alive.

There's no third option. They say it's either the case that a living being brought the universe into existence or it's not the case that a living being brought the universe into existence. Or you could say it's the case that the universe brought itself into existence or it's not the case that the universe brought itself into existence.

This is called a true dichotomy whenever you have the thing and the negation of the thing. It's either the case that my cat brought the universe into existence or it's not the case that my cat brought the universe into existence. So when you have two possibilities, like my cat bringing the universe into existence, if we only have two possibilities, if one is negated, the other is true. Can my cat bring the universe into existence?

No, it can't. So therefore, we get rid of that and the other one is true, the other one is, it's not the case that my cat brought the universe, it's a true value. Okay, so logic would require that we ask, well, what brought the universe into existence? It's either personal or not personal. It's alive or it's not alive. And if it's not alive, then it had to have the ability, it's called the necessary and sufficient conditions, it had to have the ability to do it. But if it had the ability, it was part of its nature, like a rock.

It's not personal, it's not alive, it just is. It either has what it has or doesn't have what it has. If it has what it has, the ability to bring the universe into existence, then it's gonna happen automatically. But if it's infinitely old, it would happen an infinite amount of time ago, which would mean the universe is infinitely old, but it's not, I'm skipping some stuff, just couldn't get through all this. And so therefore, the impersonal cause of the universe is not possible, therefore the other view is true.

There's a personal cause of the universe. I've used this in many debates over the years and it's valid, but it takes a little bit of practice to understand it, okay? Yes, sir, do you mind, we're just sitting here together, I think you have maybe one or two questions for you if you don't mind. Sure.

Sure, no problem. Yeah, hi. Hi. Yeah.

My name is Ola. Hey. So I think that there was some misunderstanding of what he thought I was thinking. It wasn't so much of, does God exist in that sense? So I guess my thing for him was more like, my thing was more like, I guess we can agree that we don't have any type of physical or whatever type of proof, it's more faith and you believe that God exists and we're fine with that, that God exists because we believe it and we have faith in it.

Kind of. You know, that's right, and that's the thing. I mean, there's no scientific proof that he exists, which is fine.

Yes, there is. There's no scientific proof, but there's scientific proof? Yes, you see, the science is a philosophy, okay?

People don't know that, but it's a philosophy. And it presupposes, the scientific method presupposes what's called a uniformitarian view, that everything in the universe operates the same way and so they can make predictions. It's an assumption. It's a philosophical assumption. They also, as scientists, the scientific method presupposes the validity of the universality of the laws of logic and the consistency that the laws of logic and logical laws work in the physical world. And so these are assumptions that science is based on.

So it's a philosophical approach to learning about the world. And people don't ever think like that, but that's the case. All right, now proof is for logic and mathematics. How do you prove, for example, that George Washington lived? Is there proof? Well, we have paintings of him. Well, does that prove he lived?

No. Proof means absolute assurance. Well, what if someone said, hey, you know, we have a film of him. Well, that's just not gonna work, is it?

And we got a break coming up. So the evidence in history is different than what is used in science. So we don't wanna use science for this.

We wanna use a different set of things to find things out about older things. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. Be right back. ["The Daily Show"] It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on here with Dayo. Dayo, welcome. You're back on here, are you there?

Yes, sir. Let me, yes, let me just, so I think our big argument now is the fact that you kinda answered it, but I think we're still not in this. So he just wants me to admit that as a Christian, I don't know that there is a God, but because of my faith, I believe there is a God, but that there is no proof that there is a God. To say there is no proof there is no God is not logical because he or nobody can know all proofs. There have been many arguments to prove God's existence. The transcendental, the ontological, the teleological, and I gave one.

So that's not really, it's not a good place to start from. Now the question is, what would you look for if God was real? That's what should be asked. If he's real, what would you expect to find? Because you don't wanna find, see if you can find him under a laboratory microscope.

Is that God right there? How does that work? How do you have a scientific thing to prove God exists? An experiment?

No, it doesn't work like that. So what would be the kind of things necessary to find out if God exists? That's just what you're gonna ask. So you tell me, I guess that's what I'm trying to understand.

So if, you know, I guess that's what I'm trying to understand. Yes, so if God exists, and he is so completely different that he is bigger than the universe and created it, and we are these little slivers of dots on this little small dust called planet Earth, if he's gonna manifest himself to us, let's just say he comes by in a gigantic cloud, okay, we go, oh, what's that, it's a cloud. No, it's God, how would we know? Or what if he was a big globe going light, you know, that come through and just passes you by? Was that God? Some would say, well, I think it's God. How would you know?

Because there was a light, well, how do you know? So it's difficult. So what we could say is generally, we could say, if God was to communicate to us, he'd have to do it in such a way that we could understand it. That makes sense, because otherwise, we're not gonna do it, not gonna work.

All right, so what would be the best way to do that? Well, maybe a voice out of heaven, okay? You get this big booming voice. Well, it did happen in the gospels with God the Father spoke out of heaven several times to people and to Christ.

Okay, well, that's interesting. Well, what if God is this being who knows everything and he's there and he's gonna enter into the world? Well, I think it'd be safe to say that we could say his entrance into the world would be pretty special.

Doesn't have to be, but maybe it would be special. What kind of things might that look like? Well, how about prophecy? The prophecy of him being born, what city, what family, what time, what would happen to him in detail, his death, his resurrection, all prophesied hundreds of years beforehand. So many, so, that the odds of him fulfilling them by accident are greater than one in the number of particles in the entire universe.

I can go into the math on that and it's easy to do. So, okay, well, if God knows everything, then the prophecy's like born of a virgin, Isaiah 7.14. He'll be called God, Isaiah 9.6. Born in Bethlehem, Micah 5.2. He'll be pierced and crucified. He'll be Zechariah 12.10 and Psalm 22. And all these are written hundreds and hundreds of years before Jesus was born. And in Daniel 9, 24 through 27, there's a prophecy that before the coming of the Messiah, when he comes in from the day that the decree to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem, from the day of the issuing of the decree, there's a certain amount of time that'll pass before the Messiah comes into Jerusalem. And I can go through it, but it's 173,880 days. That's what the prophecy talks about. And that's 173,880 days is when Jesus came into Jerusalem riding a donkey as it was prophesied. And it goes on like this. And he's born of a virgin.

How'd he do that? And so, wow, people are waiting for that. His entrance into the world, if God's gonna do this, that makes sense.

And maybe his life is special for whoever it is. Like Muhammad, for example, I'm reading through the Quran now, and I'm doing it very slowly and studying it. And Muhammad, he just claimed to be a prophet. Hey, I'm a prophet, okay, where's the prophecy? Where's your miracles? Let's see something that shows that you're not just saying it. Let's see something that comes from God, if God exists with you, and nothing happens. There's nothing recorded. Oh, the Quran is the miracle.

No, it's not, it's got problems in it. So Jesus had prophecy about him, and Jesus claimed to be God. And I gave you the verses.

Well, that's like, oh my goodness, that can't be the case. Well, if God exists, he's gonna communicate with us. What better way is there than to become one of us and know exactly what we feel and think, walk and talk.

You could sit there and sit down next to him. Like, wait, how could God do that? Well, he's God, you know, and the second person of the Trinity, that's more doctrine, became flesh, and was indwelling the body, the person of Christ.

And the evidence that is given by the eyewitnesses, hey, he walked on water. He commanded a storm to obey, and it did. He caused people to rise from the dead. He cast out demonic forces. He healed leprosy. He did all kinds of stuff.

Fed 4,000 with just a few fish. Repeatedly, eyewitnesses writing this down. We saw over there, we saw this, we saw that. Well, that means his life is pretty spectacular. And he says, well, I can give you the verses, but he claimed to be God in flesh, the creator. And, okay, and then his death. His death was, you know, the crucifixion. But after three days, he rose from the dead, and when the Romans killed him, they killed him.

They knew what to do. Crucifixion was a horrible way to die. And they stuck a sword, a spear, up in his side. He's up on the cross underneath, and blood and water came out.

So that's the separation of the blood, because the heart doesn't function anymore. And then he's gone. His back had been ripped open, nails in his wrists and his feet.

He's beaten about the face. Three days after that, he's in the grave. He rose from the dead. Now, that's the evidence. What's the best conclusion to draw from the evidence? The historical evidence. There's more evidence that Jesus existed in Alexander the Great, or Plato, or Socrates. You have more eyewitness accounts that are recorded within the lifetime of the people who saw it, written by many of those who were there with him. So, it makes sense to say, yeah, he's the one we should believe in. It makes sense to do so, doesn't it? Oh, yeah, okay.

Well, thanks for that, I really appreciate it. Yeah, that's what it is, you know. And people say, well, I can't believe. I can't force myself to believe. Well, yeah, you can, to a degree. You get in a car and you drive in the dark.

There's a car coming at you and it's separated by this little paint line on the road. You have faith that he's not going to drive into your lane. You don't have any proof, but you put your life on the line with that. Well, the doctors that you trust to cut you open, you trust that they're going to do a good job, even though people die from doctor's work.

And the medicines that you go to the pharmacy for, I trust that they do a good job. There's no proof. See, we have evidence for all kinds of things, and we're accustomed to certain levels of faith that we apply when we have evidence. The same principle applies to the truth of who Christ is. His arrival was prophesied, born of a virgin, performed miracles, died, and rose from the dead.

He claimed to be God. So I think you have better evidence there, the trust in him, than the guy driving on the other side of the road. Okay? Okay, that helps. Thank you.

Thank you for helping answer this question. I really appreciate it. All right. Yeah, and his questions are good questions, or they're good questions. And it just takes time. I would recommend that he read the Bible.

Just read it, and read the gospels, and read about Jesus, and see what you think of him. You know? Okay? Okay.

There's a break. Awesome. Appreciate it. All right, buddy. All right, you too.

God bless. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. If you want to wait through them, then we can do some more. We'll be right back. Please, stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Let's get to Herb, or Herb from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Welcome. You're on the air, man. Hey, Matt. Listen, buddy.

I'm going to try to be a little discreet on what I'm trying to ask you about, but I just want your feeling on it. You may not know anything about it. I have a friend who's joined a church in Durham, North Carolina, near where I live. And it's got Korean origins from it, from what I've read on it. And I cannot think of the name at this point, but it's on the wall. World Mission Society, Church of God.

World Mission Society, Church of God, yeah. That's exactly right. Now, here's the thing, buddy. And I don't know what you, they saw, if they read what I put up there. Well, I won't say the date, but they determined that there's a certain date, because I don't want to scare the public.

They say there's a certain date that the rapture's going to occur. And she is so convinced of this that she wants to make these drastic changes. And as a friend, I don't know what to have advised her.

You can't talk to her. I think it's a cult. I really do. I don't adopt it.

It's a non-Christian cult. That's what I call it. Yeah, uh-huh. Well, see, and they go straight out of the Bible, Matt.

No, they don't. She thinks I'll just say, well, here's the thing. She said there's a male and a female God. Well, that's not biblical, but she compares that with other things like us Christians.

And I know it's not true. Us Christians are missing the boat, that we're not aware that on this date, we're going to miss the boat. She and her group is going to be in heaven, and we're not. And God came back in the 30s with the male and the female God.

And I think sometime in the 30s, it says that who came. And they sleep in their car when they go. They take, she takes her, well, she takes her child out of school a lot, and that's not the way to do, you know? And I think a lot of her, I care about her, but she's so far gone in this thing. And she only got into it in the last few months, but I don't know how to advise her or if I can advise her.

What do you say to somebody? Well, she's brainwashed. There's a phenomena called snapping, and she snapped. And it's very hard to get someone out once they've snapped.

It's where you don't believe, you don't believe, and then wham, you believe, and then just go with it. So, you know, I'd be willing to talk to her over the phone. I'm sure she wouldn't want to do that. But I'd be willing to ask her questions that deal with truth and the nature of how can you have a mother and a father. God, are they both eternal?

And there's serious problems with this. It's like Mormonism. Where'd they come from? Why is there a male and female? Do they have relations in heaven? You have to ask all these questions. And what's going on?

Hell yeah. And so, you know, and they generally can't answer them, but I have to be very careful when I'm talking to someone in a group like that because they're so brainwashed that if you say the wrong thing, they just shut the door. So you have to ask them very- She tends to, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead, go ahead.

It's all right. I said she tends to get very abrupt, very blunt about things and kind of a little bit overboard. And you have to be careful what you say to her because she's so brainwashed, like you say at this point. I don't think there is any saving to her, but she has a child that I'm concerned about being brought up in this. And I don't, you know, I know I wouldn't be able to get her on to talk to somebody like yourself outside of her group of friends, but everything you're saying is exactly what I felt too. It's a cold, she's totally misled, but I don't know what's going to end up happening with her at this point. Well, often the people in cults, it takes something traumatic to get them out.

Yeah. Because it usually cannot go very quickly or very slowly. And look, for the very quick, a trauma occurs. Something, it can be all kinds of different things that just traumatize them and they can't handle it and they leave. But a lot of times over a period of time, they start seeing inconsistencies, they start thinking about them. Like in Mormonism, when Mormons ask, you know, they see inconsistencies in their history and their doctrines, they ask the bishops that are basically told, don't ask those kinds of questions. Well, why not? You know, this kind of stuff and it begins a process. Well, why can't we just ask a question? What's wrong with that? And they don't want you to do the thinking. So this is the same kind of thing that happens with cults like this. And I can deal with them, I can handle them.

I would be perfectly willing to do a public formal debate with a representative in the whole bed. You know, I would do that because it's never going to happen. But, so what do you do? Well, you pray for them.

Now, you gotta understand, when you start praying for her, really praying for her, you're gonna be stirring up a spiritual pot and you want to be prayed up that the demonic forces don't turn their attention on you and make your life a little uncomfortable. It can happen. Doesn't mean it's going to, but it's just a possibility. So that's something to think about. The other thing is, if there's a way for you to guard her, now, even as far as if she wants to, let's just say, she's so convinced that after it's gonna happen next week, she sells you her car for $1,000, let's just say.

You say, okay, $1,000, you buy the car, and then you hold it for after it fails. You can get back her life, get back going. You're guarding her stuff for her because she can't handle it.

None of that's possible, but these kinds of things that you watch out for those people who are brainwashed. Yeah, well, there's a specific date, and I told your caller, your screener, but I don't want to say it to scare other people, but I told her, well, what if you wait? I mean, she's convinced if she doesn't do certain things, I don't understand it all, but whatever she's supposed to have to do to get ready for that date, which is not too far off, she's got to do it. And I said, well, why don't you wait till that date?

And you might be wrong. And if these things don't occur on the date that you've been with your vision, whatever you've been told, and it doesn't happen, would that not tell you that this just may be the wrong religion to be in, the wrong group to be a part of? But I don't think she's going to listen to me, but that was my thinking, just be patient. And if you think this is truly the right way and you believe as a Christian, which they call themselves Christians, but I know that they can't be, but I said, if you believe the way you believe, then if you just have faith and see what happens on that date, and then if you find that you're wrong, then realize it's not a sin to be wrong. Just admit even the wrong belief and get with the right belief. But I don't think she's going to fall for that. It's just no talking to her.

But I wanted to confirm with you, I felt in my own mind, I don't have a lot of background on stuff like this, but I felt, sure, it's gotta be a cold. And I've never heard of the beliefs about male and the female God and all that, there's just no way. Yes, they teach, I'm looking at my notes, okay, God is modalistic, so there's the Father, there's the Holy Spirit being three distinct, simultaneous persons, these modes.

There's the Heavenly Mother, there's the salvationist by baptism, and you have to do it in the name of Jehovah the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit, who is an asang hong, it's hard to pronounce. And you have to tithe, you have to give money. And that's where the crookedness is, I think, somebody's getting rich off of these people who have low self-esteem, and saying if you don't believe in something, you'll fall for anything. And I think that's what she's gotten into.

But I just can't get her to see the forest for the trees. I mean, I just, I don't know. But I really appreciate that.

You're confirming what I felt pretty sure I was correct, but I'm not, that's part of a person, I mean, I'm just an average guy, but I wanted to confirm it from you and just see what you thought and any suggestions. So, well, time will tell. It's bad news, yeah. Yeah, sorry, that's what it is, she's in a cult, and there's lots of cults all over the place.

Lots of cults. Yeah. Yeah.

That is so sad. You know, the Lord really needs to come on back soon. I mean, it's not for us to say, but I sure wish he'd heard me come back.

We sure need him. That's right. Well, Matt, God bless you as always, you and your family, thank you so much. And y'all have a wonderful weekend.

You too, man, God bless, appreciate it. All right. Yes, sir. Bye-bye. All right, okay. All right, all right, all right.

Let's get to Fabio from Ontario, Canada. Welcome, you're on the air. Hey, Matt, I appreciate you taking my call. Sure. Just started listening to your stuff recently.

Absolutely love it, your website, fantastic. Love the debates. I think I have the debate with you and Arne-Ron next, so watch, which I'm really excited about that one. I already feel mad with him, but. Yeah, mm-hmm, yeah. He won't ever debate me again, yeah.

What's that? He'll never debate you again? No, he won't ever debate me again, because at the end of our debate, listen for it, I started to sing, he had faith. Oh man, he did not like that. He did not like that at all.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. He's really easy to get angry. I watch, I don't know if you know who Bob Duco is. He's up in Michigan. No, it doesn't ring a bell, sorry. Bob Duco, he has a radio show as well, and he debated him as well, and it was funny, because the topic got on dinosaurs, and Arne-Ron started saying, well, I'm not a professional on dinosaurs. After, first he said, let's talk about dinosaurs, then after Bob Duco started just going with why dinosaurs live with man, and things like that, and then all of a sudden he wasn't a professional in that field, which I thought was funny, but anyways. I wanted to ask a question. I was a Catholic for many years.

I've been saved for about 12 years now. So I was trying to get a conversation going with this gentleman, he has a YouTube account, and a Catholic guy, and he's talking about all these Catholic things, and I have a good understanding about Catholic doctrine and all that, and I told him, can we have a dialogue about baptism or belief for salvation, or for being born again? And he wants to talk about all these other things. Like, he wants to talk about the early church fathers, and this and this and that, and I told him, with all due respect, I don't really care. It's what the scripture is telling me.

So my early church fathers is Paul, Peter, John. Now, do you have anything? That's what I say. I do the same thing. Right, I mean. I do. If these guys in the first, second, third century are saying something different than the scripture, then something's wrong, and I know they don't uphold the scripture as we do.

I get that. Now, do you have anything that I can look at where it talks about, so his thing is, the early church fathers would agree with his analysis of baptism, which is baptizing babies, and needing to get baptized to go to heaven, as opposed to what we believe in believer's baptism. What you can do is go to CARM, and look up the early church fathers, it's a main category.

And then go to quotes by topic. And you'll see where they differ on the apocrypha, baptism, the canon of scripture, the Eucharist, faith alone, purgatory, salvation by faith, scripture as a final authority, and a bunch of other stuff. So when I talk to Catholics, and these are Orthodox, and they tell me that the church fathers agreed with them, I say, which church fathers? Which ones, because they contradict each other.

No they don't, oh yes they do. You know, if I go to baptism and salvation, I click on my links, and I've done the research. You know, Irenaeus said that it was necessary, I did Origen, and Tertullian, and Ambrose. But Clement of Rome, and Polycarp, and Marianas Victorinus said no, and I read them the quotes. And say, and furthermore, and you can do this on all kinds of topics, and you can say, look, how do you know that these church fathers are right? That's a question, and they can't answer.

Right. Because they have to go to the scriptures. Oh man, we're out of time. Call back tomorrow, well tomorrow, call back Monday, we can talk about the church fathers.

I deal with the Catholics a lot. Okay, perfect. I can show you a link, that's awesome. Yes, I appreciate it so much. God bless you, brother. Okay, man, God bless. We'll talk to you later. Another program powered by the Truth Network.