Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. And you're listening to Matt Slick live. If you want to give me a call, as usual, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. And we can talk. And if you want to watch the show on this lovely day of January 3rd, 2024.

Man, this year's flying by already. But if you want to watch and participate in the chat room, all you're going to do is go to rumble.com forward slash chat. Oh, hey, guess what, guys? This is for Charlie and Laura and Ernie. Oh, I guess we can't do that if it's live stream. OK, no, I'm sorry. See, I get confused because I did a video yesterday in StreamYard and when you're recording it, you can pause it. But I just I thought that was a new feature. But when you are going live, you can't pause it for the live stream.

That makes sense. Hey, we should just wasted some time. All right, as I was saying, if you want to watch the show, all you're going to do is go to rumble, R-U-M-B-L-E dot com forward slash Matt Slick live. And you can participate in the chat room and stuff like that and watch me sitting here. It's not a big deal and see if my voice fits my face because everyone says it does not. So that's got you curious, you can go take a look. People say I have a face for radio as well as a voice for radio.

So that works out perfectly. All right, hey, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Also, if you want to email me, you can do that.

All you have to do is just send an email to info at karm.org and just put in a radio question or radio comment like Marsha did. And oh, look at that, good question, so I can put that in the radio questions folder. So a lot of good stuff, a lot of good stuff there. And once again, I want to say thank you to everyone who donated for the end of your drive. We really appreciate it.

It helped a great deal. And one of the new things we'll be doing is cleaning up a lot of the loose ends in all of that in our big system that's so generic. But that's what we're going to be doing, and I'll be contacting people, calling them, just saying, hey, how are you doing, thanks, and things like that. And for certain level donors, what we're going to be doing is having a once-a-month meeting where we can just send them a URL and they can come in and meet the missionaries and me and staff and everybody just talk about whatever and just kind of a meet-and-greet, things like that, we'll be doing that too. All right, and there's one more thing, what was it, oh, yeah, no, wait, I had a newsletter that didn't do it tonight, but there's something else, you know, oh, I started Patreon again, and hopefully it worked because I haven't done it for a long time. And so I'm doing that now, patreon.com forward slash Matt Slick, if you want to check that out, Matt Slick, and for those of you who might be newbies, Matt Slick is my real name, born with it.

It's on my passport, driver's license, birth certificate, and all of that stuff. Yeah, pretty astounding. All right, hey, let's just jump on the air and let's get to Mike from Florida. Mike, welcome. You are on here. Thank you, Matt. How are you today?

Doing all right, hanging in there. Oh, and I just remembered, thanks for reminding me, Joanne. Tonight, open forum on Clubhouse at 9 p.m. Eastern time. We'll be doing that for an hour or so.

Open forum, you can come on Clubhouse.com or Clubhouse on your app, and you can look up my name, Matt Slick, at that time, and we can talk. Okay, sorry about that, Mike. Sorry about that. I didn't interrupt you there. Okay, what do you got, buddy? Nope.

No problem. Well, I've been dealing a little bit with the idea of supersessionism lately. And, you know, I'm on a couple of websites, and they're dealing with this as if it's a bad word. You know, and I am a supersessionist by fulfillment. In other words, I think that Jesus has fulfilled all the promises that God made to Israel, and that the resurrection of Jesus is the hope of Israel, and the language of election is now applied to the church. And so if that's so, it's so obvious to me, anyway, if that's so obvious, what is the big stink about using the term supersessionism? You know, it's not a replacement theology, it's a fulfillment. You know, God is, it's the march of the history of redemption, and I don't see anything wrong with the term.

Can you enlighten me as to why people get all freaked out about that? Well, it's very close to replacement theology. And so, supersessionism, so if there are differences, and I could maybe write an article on this, and get through the issue of what those nuanced differences, because basically I've seen them as being just synonymous.

So, I do have an article on this on Karm, what is supersessionism. It's teaching that the New Covenant established by Jesus replaces the Old Testament Mosaic Covenant, and the words derived from supersede, etc. So basically it asserts that the Christian church has replaced Israel. It's also sometimes called replacement theology.

I'm getting the impression from you that there's a little bit more nuanced differences in that, right? Well, to me, it's an unnecessary, you know, if you just put in a footnote that it's by fulfillment, you know, people think that God has pushed, that I'm saying that God has pushed Israel aside, and replaced that with the Gentiles or something, and that's nowhere near what I'm saying. You know, if they just understood the doctrine, the term replacement would not be a bad word, if you understand where I'm going with that. Yes, what I do when people routinely misrepresent what I'm saying, or maybe I'm not being clear enough, you know, then that's fine.

It doesn't happen. What I will then do is say, look, I hold to supersensationism, or I hold to replacement theology. However, I don't believe ABCD. I do affirm DEF, okay?

So that kind of a thing is really good. So when I have my, on my CARM website, the statement of faith, I have a list of doctrines that we affirm and deny. So we affirm and deny, and it's always good to do that as well, for complications, okay? Yeah, well, the whole idea though, you know, if I'm talking to people, and Israel's in the news now, and I try to make the statement, I know this is a little bit, you know, insightful or something, but I'll say that, you know, those people in the Mideast are not biblical Israel, you know. They're not in covenant with God, and it seems to be the flag that I raised too early or something to explain what supersessionism is, you know.

It might be my mistake. You think that's a... Well, now, see, this is where we get into covenant theology, and we have to deal with... All right, let me just focus and say it. Covenant theology, as good as it is, is so vast that sometimes it becomes difficult to understand some of the nuances. So we're talking about the Abrahamic covenant that is also called the gospel.

In Genesis 12, 3, Galatians 3, 8 talks about this. So there are certain aspects of the Old Testament covenant that are still in effect. And we have a new covenant, and the new covenant, the Spirit is given. The old covenant, there was basically a law system. So the three parts of the law, the ceremonial, the judicial, and the moral. The judicial and ceremonial are done away with, but the moral...

The judicial and ceremonial is what I said, are done away with, but the moral is still in effect. So the Jews are still obligated to follow the moral law. Furthermore, there's an aspect of all men being in Adam and under the covenant that God made with Adam and all progeny, which is why I believe personally that when God was saying to Adam, in the day that you eat, you will die, I think he was speaking to all mankind and eschatological issues. So anyway, so when we get into this issue of covenant, what I would do if I were you to get this better and to have less problems is to do a study on the covenant requirements and aspects of the Old Testament state with God, and then include how they broke the covenant because they didn't recognize the Messiah, and that we the Gentiles are grafted in. But the question is, is God covenantally done with Israel?

The answer of course is, well, no, he's not. You go to Romans chapter 11, 25, 26, it says he's not done with Israel. So then it's just a balancing act of trying to understand all of it and make it all make sense. And this, when you get the covenants, it's not that easy. Well, if he's not done with Israel, what does that mean, that he's going to come back and rebuild a temple like the dispensationalists say? Well, it does look as though the temple will be rebuilt, not the dispensationalists.

Forget that. I don't believe in dispensationalism. God works covenantally. However, both dispies and covenantalists look at the same text and they see the same thing and they're going to see the same facts and then interpret them in light of our assumptions. So it does look like the temple will be rebuilt, and it does look like, for example, some of the prophecies that 200 million man army is going to march up the dried up Euphrates River and come into Israel to take a spoil, and God's going to clean their clock through Israel.

It's going to happen. So God's not done with them, because that's what the Bible says. A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come. And so all Israel will be saved, just as it's written, the deliverer will come from Zion, he will remove ungodliness from Jacob.

So that's not yet happened. So God's not done with Israel. This is why I'm saying it's a balancing act between the aspects of covenant and dispies who are going to say certain things, covenantalists are going to say other things, etc. It's just not an easy one to work through.

It takes a lot of work. You wouldn't say that there's two parallel peoples of God, though, would you? No, there's only one people, God the elect, period.

They can be anywhere, any place, any time. So if the church has fulfilled that, and there's no more old covenant people, that there's no new covenant people, it seems as if the destruction of the temple and the city in AD 70 sort of put a stamp on that, that the types and shadows have been fulfilled, and there are no more types of shadows, it seems to me. Yes, however, let me throw a bit of a monkey wrench in this, okay?

So this is just more information. In Genesis 12, 3, God says to Abraham, and I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth will be blessed. In you all the families of the earth will be blessed. So the sign of that covenant promise is found in Genesis 17, 10, 11. This is my covenant, which you shall keep in your descendants.

Every male shall be circumcised. It shall be the sign of the covenant between me and you. All right, so that's a covenant sign. Well, what I read to you first was Genesis 12, 3, in you all the nations shall be blessed. When we go to Galatians 3, 8, Paul says this, the scripture foreseen that God would justify the Gentiles by faith preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham saying, all the nations will be blessed in you. Okay, so Paul references Genesis 12, 3 as the gospel. So now we have an interesting problem because that means the Abrahamic covenant is still in effect because it's called the gospel. So now what do you do?

Do you want to say it's replaced? We can't. Hey, we've got a break coming. Hold on, buddy. We'll get into this.

You see why it's not so easy? All right, so hold on. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

We have two open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show. Let's see if we get Mike back on as soon as the, let's see, the producer, that's right, activates him. There you go. Hey, Mike. Welcome, buddy. You're back on here.

How you doing again, Matt? Yeah, I got a couple comments about what you said earlier. It's my impression that when Moses said that there's going to be a prophet like me coming along and if anybody doesn't believe in him, he'll be cut off from the people. So that's cut off from the people. And then Jesus is that prophet, obviously, and also Jesus and the church is the new rebuilt temple.

And all of those, you know, I mean, the types of shadows to me seem to have been fulfilled pretty significantly. Yes, but God's not done with Israel yet. That's Romans 11, 25, 26. So he's not done. So you've got to include that. But that was written.

That was written in the first century and I think he was done with them in the first century. I think that all turned over. I think that's done. He says, well, it can't be because he says, and I'll go to it and I'll read it again.

All right. It says this. It says, I do not want you brethren to be uninformed to this mystery so that you will not be wise in your own estimation that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. So what's the fullness of the Gentiles?

That's the critical issue. Yeah. Well, if you have a definition of the fullness of Israel, my definition is sort of a strange one and it's based on, I heard Scott Hahn and James Scott, I think it was, was talking about the history of Hosea, you know, that you're called not white people. Go ahead. What does it mean?

What is the time of the Gentiles? What is it? Well, I have to, I have to, I have to kind of define it. I got to give you a little history before I can define it. Okay. No, you don't. You just say that the Gentiles is, that's all you got to do and Scott Hahn is a Catholic.

So you got to be careful. The fullness of the Gentiles, the way I define it is the return of the Northern 10 tribes. They got, they were cast, they were Hosea's Jezreel, the second kid was named Jezreel and that is scattered, thrown into the nations.

They became Gentiles and part of the history of return is that the two sticks of Israel have to be returned, the Northern 10 tribes and the Southern 2 tribes and Paul is the, he is going out to the Gentiles and I think that's his main function is to gather the Northern 10 tribes back into the fold and that the fullness of Gentiles are the Northern 10 tribes located in those Gentile nations. Yeah, I don't agree with that. And so, okay.

It's my favorite solution. Well, yeah, it doesn't seem to be the case because I've never heard that definition being it, that doesn't mean it's not true, but I've just not heard that. So when it says all Israel be saved, so let me ask you, are you a Preterist? Uh, yes. Okay.

That explains a lot right there. All right. So now we're going to shift, now we're going to shift the focus a little bit and we've got callers piling in so I want to get to them, but I want to show you that Preterism is false.

I need to just attack that first, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me talk to you about this. All right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All right. So Preterism says Jesus returned in 70 AD. That's what it says. Right. The armies. Right.

Okay. That's not how the prophecy is that he will return. This is Acts one, nine through 11, it says, and after he had said these things, he, that's Jesus, was lifted up while they were looking on and a cloud received him out of their sight. So Jesus was lifted up into the sky where the clouds were, right? Well in a cloud, I'm a cloud, he's a cloud rider, but go ahead. And then do you agree the cloud was in the sky?

I would, but he's, the cloud rider has a specific meaning in the Old Testament. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Is the cloud in the sky? That's my question. Yes.

Okay. He's lifted up while they were looking on and a cloud received him out of their sight. He's lifted up. They're watching. And as they were gazing into the sky while he was going up, two men in white clothing stood beside them and they said, man of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky?

What are they looking into? A cloud rider. A cloud rider. Okay. Look, I read you the text and when I ask you a question, you introduce a term that's not in the text, even though the text clearly says they were looking into the sky.

So when I ask you, what are they looking into? Your answer should be, they were looking into the sky. Let me have a chance to argue with that. It was riding on a cloud.

The term on a cloud is in the verse. Okay. Stop. Stop. Stop.

Stop. Look. He was lifted up and it took him and a cloud received him out of their sight. And the angel said, you're looking up into the sky.

What are they looking into? They're looking at Jesus riding a cloud into the sky. So they're looking into the sky.

That's what it says. And then it says, this Jesus who has taken up from you, this Jesus who has taken up from you into heaven will come in just the same way as you watched him go into heaven. And he went up into the sky, the clouds up there, and that's how he's coming back. That refutes the idea that he came into armies. That's how he returned.

It's just that simple. Well, I contend that the term riding on a cloud is in the verse and that riding on a cloud coming back has a specific meaning in the Old Testament. That's the way I interpret that. Where does it say riding on a cloud? He went up on a cloud. Didn't he go up on a cloud? Okay. I asked you, where does it say riding on a cloud? You say, did it say he went up in a cloud?

I didn't ask that. Yeah. I said, you said riding.

Well, I'm just describing it. You know, he's the cloud rider from the old, he's Yahweh, who was the cloud rider. Don't call him. Don't do that.

Look, I've done this for so many years, 44 years now, that when people do exactly what you're doing, when people do this, when they take the words that are right in the text, they ignore them and just insert a slightly different phrase repeatedly that tells me they're interpreting it differently than just simply what it says. It says that they watched them go up into the sky where the clouds were. That's how he's going to come back. That's what it says. He did not go up in the sky on a cloud?

This is amazing. I just said he went up into the sky in a cloud where the clouds were. That's what I just said.

How could you say? I'm saying to the contrary. Well, I'm not saying to the contrary, I'm saying he rode the cloud up into the sky. Isn't that what the verse says? No, it doesn't say he rode a cloud. It says a cloud received him out of their sight. How we could probably interpret that is he went up and a cloud was in front of him and he was gone. But it's in the sky where the clouds are because the angels say, why are you saying looking into the sky?

He ascended into the sky where the clouds are. That's what's going on. If you spiritualize it, no wonder you're having problems. This refutes.

I'm not having problems. Yes, you are. Yes, you are. No, I mean, we have a difference of interpretation. This refutes preterism.

And you can go to 1 Thessalonians 4. No, it doesn't. Yes, it does. Your denial doesn't make it go away. Look, we've got to go. There's a break. We've got people.

But look, that refutes preterism. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Aye, aye, aye. Please stay tuned. Here's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hello, everybody. I'm reading the text chats. We're having fun in there. People are amused by my facial expressions. I'm talking to people like, what?

And they like those facial expressions. So there you go. All right, let's get to Ramon from Utah.

Ramon, what's going on here? How you doing, sir? Hanging in there, buddy.

Hanging in there, man. So what do you got? What's the deal? So my question is, 12 years ago, I committed a certain crime. And I'm on the registry. And so... Which one?

What, sex offender register? Yes, sir. Is that it? Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. So it's kind of hard in everything else. We've got certain stipulations we've got to follow by and everything, which is understandable. I don't disagree with them. But it's just hard.

I'm trying to get my life on track and everything. And it's like the only church out here is the LDS church. And I'm not LDS. I don't believe in the LDS church. I pray for a lot of the members.

But they're about the only ones who are out here that are willing to even do anything for people with specific crimes. And I honestly don't know what to do. Okay.

I try to have rivals. I'm over here in Salt Lake City right now. Salt Lake. Okay. Yeah, I'll be down there in a couple of weeks, Lord willing. We're going to be getting down there.

So okay, I'm pausing because there's several things going through my head. One is you've got to find a good church, not a Mormon church, no matter what, okay? It's a cult. And so there are churches in Salt Lake City. I know there's some in Jordan Valley. There's some in Sandy and down there. And I know of a good one in Provo, of all places.

Okay. But that's too far away. That's like an hour away. So what I would do, if I can word this properly, what I would do is go through the Yellow Pages, White Pages, whatever you can, look for churches online, and call them up. And you tell them the story. You write something out that you can read so it's not confusing. And you're repentant, this and that. And that you want to find a church to fellowship in, and you're perfectly willing to abide by any rules or restrictions that they would have.

And then you just go through this, do that, and that's what you do. Now let's just say I was a pastor, and you called me, and you said that. I'd say, let's meet. Let's talk. And I'd meet, you know, we'd go out to get coffee or something, and we'd just talk. I'd say, well, tell me about it. And I wouldn't be pointing any fingers, you know, just let's talk. And I'd say, well, look, you're welcome to come to our church. And I had to talk to the elders. And we would have to work this out how it's going to be.

Because yay, come on in. But of course you couldn't, you could not do anything with the children, et cetera. And you know, okay. And if need be, maybe the congregation might need to know. But maybe not.

It just depends on circumstances and some stuff. And that should be it. And it should be that the elders are aware, and that, you know, you're repentant, and you've got this thing hanging over you, and you've got to work through it in a church.

And that you just lay it before the eldership, and you just follow their instruction. It shouldn't be a big deal. I mean, it is. I'm not trying to dismiss it. But you know, it should be workable, I should say it that way. Yeah, I understand. Yeah. Um, yeah, I just, it is hard and everything, and I'm just hoping that the world will open up doors and everything. Yeah.

Oh, it'll happen. I like the part you said about repentance. Mike, I do go through difficulties. I mean, I'm a recovering addict. So I mean, repentance is a big part, because I wouldn't want nobody to come into my congregation that has, that has the taint of sin, and that kind of in-depth, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah, but this thing about Christianity is, sure, but we're supposed to be forgiving, and patient and gracious, but we have to be those things with wisdom. So you know, I'm not saying we have to publicly say, hey, this is, I'm going to introduce you to so-and-so, and this is what happened, and you got to know this. Is that appropriate?

I don't know. It depends on the church. But you know, I would just say, go there, attend, and you know, you sit near the elders, and you're just watched a little bit, so that if it ever comes out, it's always known. And also, I would say the elders should keep a record of your interactions with them. This is not to be oppressive, it's just, hey, we've been aware for, you've been coming here for a year, and we've had meetings, and everything's under control, there's not a problem, and you know, etc.

So it's a toughie, but it's workable, okay? And you need to go to church. Okay. Yeah, you do. I mean, I'm kind of like really hard-headed about what church, because I do believe in the Reformed theology, and I can't be in, like, hearing some people preach on Arminianism and all that, and it's just like, I just get upset.

So yeah, so I'll keep... I know a Reformed pastor down there, last name Hurlbut, and that's his real name, I like to ask him when I see him, how far, but his last name's Hurlbut. And you can look up, find him, and I've been to the church, and he's a good guy.

We went to Israel together seven, eight years ago. But also, you could contact mrm.org, Mormonism Research Ministry, Bill McKeever. He knows churches in the area, and maybe he knows something, and it's okay. He's a good guy, and along with Eric Johnson, they're great guys, and they know good churches and stuff.

You just have to be upfront about everything, and just keep knocking on doors until it happens. Both of those guys are Reformed as well. Okay. Okay.

And someone's making a comment, states are different, or different states have different rules. So you're in Utah, and it's just something you have to work out with the elders. Okay, it's doable, okay, it's doable, man, all right? Yeah, thank you, sir. All right, buddy. God bless. Yeah, I've been listening to you for like 12 years, and you've been like my own personal pastor while I was locked in.

Oh, okay. Well, a lot of people listen to me while they were incarcerated, and I did nine years of prison ministry. And so I love, I actually really like meeting guys who are in, and then they're out, and they say, hey, I was listening to you, it didn't really help.

I just love that. And I'm very comfortable with ex-cons, or however you want to use the term. I don't care. Hey. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Yeah.

And I met many guys, and it's like, great, praise God, you did your time, good. Now what? You know? Now what? Let's just move forward.

That's all it is. But hey, look, I'll be down there, Lord willing. And sometimes what I'll do is I'll say to people, I'll be at a restaurant if anybody wants to come in and just say hi, or at a place, or something like that. Maybe I'll do that to people. A lot of people email me, say they want to meet me.

That's not a big deal, but they say they do, and they can arrange a restaurant or something like that. Okay. All right. All right, thank you, sir. All right. Sounds good. Say goodbye. All right. God bless.

You too. In fact, I'll just say that I probably will be going down there in a couple of weekends, and I think the 12th, 13th range. If enough people down there go, hey, we'd just like to get together at a restaurant or something just to say hi, hey, I'd do that, or a coffee shop. If you want to do that, if I get three, four, five people or so or more, I go, yeah, fine.

Just email me at info at karm.org and say, yeah, it'd be fun. Not a big deal. I'm not impressive.

It's not a big deal, but hey, sometimes it's kind of fun to meet people. So there you go. Let's get on the air now with the next longest-waiting is Ann from Alabama. And welcome. You're on the air. Yes. Can you hear me? Yes, I can.

I'm sorry. Can you hear me? Yeah. Hello? Sure.

Yes. I hear you. Okay, good. I am a first-time caller and I just love your patience. So my question is, and I'm serious.

Well, you're doing good so far. I have a question and it is a serious question. I'm confused about it. The Israelites, who are the, who are the original Israel Israelites and are the Jews the same as the Israelites? Are the Israelites, the Jews, are the Jews the Israelites and what's the, what's your original culture of the, okay, let's see. My question is, Jew, is that the faith or the people?

Both. Because the Jews are the ones who are descended out of the bloodline of Abraham and you can actually trace genetics back to that. And there's a Semitic genetic line that they, that is traceable way back there and it goes back to before Christ. And there's a lot of geology, not, excuse me, genetic archeological research where they do trees, genetic trees. And so that's one of the things and the original culture was very similar to what you might see in nomadic cultures over in the Middle East now. And so the Jews who are in the land today are descendants of the real Jews. Now I have a friend and he's a Jew, but he's a Christian and he can trace his lineage back.

He knows what tribes he's from and he's Jewish and he's, you know, he's a friend of mine. Anyway, hold on. We got a break. Okay. We'll get back and talk some more about this. Hey folks, if you want to give me a call, we have one open line, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Back on the air and as soon as Ann's activated again, I can get her back on and then we can continue to talk to her about the Jews, et cetera. All right. So I was going to add a little bit more. Israelites are generally from the Northern tribe of Israel and Judah from the Southern and so the Jews out of Judah.

But normally now what they're spoken of as being interchangeable, Israelites are generally the geographically located people, but the term just now becomes all Jewish people including the Israelites, et cetera. Okay. But anyway, go ahead. Okay. You're back with me? Yep. Yes, I am. Okay.

Okay. I'm just trying to get a clear thought of when I hear the word Jew, is that a faith? I know the Israelites are a people, but the two confuse me. When I hear Israelites and the Jews, the Israelites, is that their faith, Jew?

Well, yes and no. It's used interchangeably. So the Jew originally were members of the tribe of Judah, one of the 12 tribes of Israel. So all Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites would be Jews in that context.

Okay. Right there is what I get confused about. Are we talking about their faith? All Israelites do not have the same faith? There's a yes and a no to that as well.

There are Israelites who are atheists and those who hold to the truth of the Torah, for example, the first five books. So there's a variety in there. It's not easy to just say, here's the only way to look at this term and that term. It's been through history, it's been used in different ways.

And so it's a little bit tough to nail it down. Okay. But originally... Okay. So for me... Go ahead.

Okay. So for me, for example, for me to say, I am a Baptist, would that be the same to say I am a Jew? No, a Jew is not a Baptist. There's a yes and a no to that as well.

That's okay. You could have a Jewish person who becomes a Christian and is a Baptist. So he'd be a Jew and a Baptist in that sense. But theologically, they can't be the same because a Jew who theologically, what's that? What make one a Jew?

Birth, genealogy, okay? That's what does that they're descendants from the tribe of Judah. And but the term now has been used to include all Jewish people, all Israelites, all who came from Israel 2,000, 3,000 years ago, 2,500 years ago.

So the term now means that. Originally, when the divided kingdom occurred, the northern kingdom were the Israelites and the Judah was in the south. So they were Jews and Israelites, but they were all from the same original source. And that was the people who came from Abraham. And then... Those are the original Jews from Judah. The original Jews in the narrow sense are from the tribe of Judah. In the broad sense, the term is used to describe all the tribes of Israel now.

It's just that's how the term is used now, okay? I got a question for you. Are you getting any of this from the Hebrew Israelite movement?

Say that again. Are you getting any of this or some questions generated from the Hebrew Israelite movement? No, sir. I'm an individual. I'm just trying to learn. I'm not connected to any of that. Yeah.

I'm trying to learn for my personal sake. Good. Yeah.

Good. And like I said... There's something called the Black Hebrew Israelite movement, and it often will say that they are the true Jews, the true Israelites from different tribes.

And they get into these conversations a lot. It's a very racist, unchristian group. So movement, anyway. Yeah.

Well, I'm not trying to do that. And the Israelites, they're a culture. Am I seeing it right?

The culture of the Israelites, they're a regional culture? Kind of, I guess. Yeah.

Depending what you mean. But okay. Okay. When I say original, I'm a country girl. When I say original, I mean the beginning.

You know, I'm trying to... Okay. Oh, original. I thought you meant regional.

Regional. But you mean original. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.

From the beginning, we had started. Okay. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. Well, that comes from the... So we're still talking about... Yeah. That comes from the Northern and Southern tribes when they split. That's where the terms came out. Okay.

So Israel was one of the... he was an ancient individual and out of his descendancy is where the Israelites came and Judah, likewise out of Judah. Okay. Uh-huh. Okay.

Okay. So that all started with Jacob. The ancient Israelites. I believe so. I believe so.

Yeah, Jacob. Yeah. Right. He had the 12 sons. Right. He had the 12 sons. Right.

That's where they come from, children of Jacob. Right. Okay. One more thing. Sure. The guy that called earlier, you know, when he was talking about the road on the cloud, maybe he could... if he's listening, maybe he'll understand better if he can compare the road to the rapture.

If he understand the rapture, you know, caught up, maybe he can see better how Jesus was caught up. You know. Yes.

There's... I think the issue of him returning the same way he went up is also found in Acts 1, 9-11 when I went through it, but also in 1 Thessalonians 4, 16 where it says the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, the trumpet of God the dead in Christ will rise first, and we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. This is also describing the same thing. But that guy was so obstreperous, he's incapable of seeing what this text is actually saying because he's so entrenched in a false doctrine that he can't see. Yes.

Yeah. You know, and we just pray for me and other people like that because we can be taught for so long and we just get stuck in that mindset and don't want to see anything else. So I just wanted to pass that to him if he's listening, if he could compare, you know, look at those scriptures you just quoted about the rapture and how we will be caught up and maybe it'll help him see better. But thank you so much. That's what I needed to hear.

I needed to know the difference in the Jews and the Israelites and the ancient Jews and the ancient Israelites. I think I got a better understanding now. So I appreciate it. Good, good, good. Well, God bless. Thanks for calling. You too. Thank you so much. All right.

You're welcome. All right. Let's see, Fred from Durham, North Carolina. You're next. What do you got, man? Hey, man. How you doing?

Just calling. I've been a long time listener for about two years and finally got to call you tonight to help me understand a little bit more what the word says about, I had a best friend that passed away about two weeks ago from a sudden heart attack. And I just want to know, where does the soul go immediately after it dies? Is it resting or somewhere or does it immediately go to be judged or how does it work? The unbelievers, those who died without Christ, go to a bad place where they begin torment, being tormented. And then there'll be a final judgment where they'll be cast into hell and outer darkness. The believers go to be with the Lord. And we know that from 2 Corinthians 5-8, which says, we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. So the believer is with the Lord Jesus.

Now, where and how that exactly is right now, there's discussions and debates about it, but we get to go be with the Lord. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much. And I know that he didn't preach a lot about the word, but I know that his beliefs were in the Lord.

So I hope that, you know, we pray that he's with him in paradise now. Well, you know. Thank you very much for helping me understand that. Okay. Okay.

Well, God bless. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. No, it's okay. All right. Thank you.

I was going to just say, we're going back and forth here. I'm just going to say that a lot of times we don't know what happened to the last few minutes of someone's death or love life. Excuse me. I don't know what the circumstances of your friend was, but a lot of times people have this ability to be broken because they recognize death is about to come upon them and they cry out to God and they can be saved that way and go to heaven.

So I don't know the circumstances of your friend's passing, but maybe there's hope in that if that was his situation. Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. I appreciate that. All right, man. God bless. All right. Thank you. Sure. Okay. We don't have anybody waiting.

We don't have any minutes left in the show. I want to thank everybody for listening, and tonight, in one hour, isn't that right, Joanne? One hour from now, I'll be on Clubhouse, and I do about an hour on Clubhouse.

I used to go every week, but now, because I got so busy, I just started doing it once a month, but generally people, we do it for two hours? Okay. And generally people don't really come in very much because I'm not there regularly enough for them to remember the time.

So we'll just see. If you want to, you want to ask me different questions. It's different in the radio in that I usually will get into some stuff more deeply in those contexts, not so much on the radio, because often there's people on the radio waiting. They want to get on, and I don't want to become argumentative on the radio, and sometimes it does happen in chat rooms because it's just that kind of a thing.

I do try to be patient with them and work with them, but sometimes it just takes a lot of time and a lot of stuff, and so it's a little bit different format, that's all. But if you're interested in checking it out, all you have to do is just do it on your phone. Just download the Clubhouse app, and it's easy to do. You just sign up.

It doesn't cost anything, and then once you're there, you hit the little magnifying glass, wherever it is, and you just, in an hour, just type in my name, Matt Slick. That's it. You'll find it live. Oh, it starts in two hours? Oh, so it's, that's right, that's right, 9 p.m. Eastern time. So it starts in two hours. There you go. I made a mistake. Thanks for correcting me, Joe and Joanne. So there we go, all right. And Clubhouse tonight, what time?

It will be 9 p.m. Eastern time, 7 p.m. my time. It's easier than Discord, but I'm on Discord a lot. Anyway, we're just rambling, because we got, we killed some time here a little bit. And Discord is another place where I go and do a lot of teaching, and sometimes I'll be on there for two or three hours, and I'll have these in-depth conversations with individuals, which I won't have here on the radio. These in-depth conversations, both in Clubhouse and on Discord, get quite deep sometimes, but we can talk about transcendentals, metaphysical ethics.

We can talk about metaphysical justification and deduction, induction, and abduction. We can talk about all kinds of topics when we get into these things, and syllogisms and disjunctive syllogisms, and so we'll do that, and generally the audience understands this kind of stuff a little bit better than the average Joe coming on the radio. So I like to discuss that, and sometimes, sometimes, I'll do some really nice Q&A. It's called an AMA, ask me anything, it's an AMA. People sometimes say, hey, Matt, just come into the room, and they'll just fire questions, and it happens a lot like that. And I don't go into the rooms in order to dominate.

That's not my perspective, not my desire. What I want to do is just go in there, listen while I'm working on something, and sometimes people say, hey, Matt's here, let's just ask him some questions, and they go, oh, okay, if you guys want, and then they do, and that goes on for an hour or two. Anyway, tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern time on Clubhouse, if you want to check it out on your phone at clubhouse.com, but also the app on your phone. There's the music, I'm out of here. May the Lord bless you, by his grace, we're back on there tomorrow, and we'll talk to you then. Have a good evening. Another program powered by the Truth Network.