Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by Matt Slick and So there's that. Let's see. OK, I've got a couple things to announce. We've got a caller coming. But we are still involved in going to Israel next year in April, we're going to be doing the Footsteps of Paul tour. And it's expensive.

It's not cheap. But we're going to be going to, for 19 days, we're going to be going to Turkey and visit each location of the churches of Revelation. And then we're going to also go to Ephesus, which I've been there before. Oh my goodness, it's wonderful to see.

It's incredible. And then we're going to go to Greece and see Athens and see some other stuff in Greece. Then we're going to Italy and do Footsteps of Paul in Rome. And so that's going to be great. If you are interested, just check it out. You can email me if you want info at karm.org and say, hey, where's the URL for that and all that stuff?

That's one thing. And let's see, so Sunday I'll be preaching down in Provo at the church, a city on a hill. And if you go to karm.org forward slash calendar, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G forward slash calendar, then you can see where I'll be preaching. There's the address and the church starts at 11 o'clock. I'll be preaching on spiritual warfare, the occult, and things like that.

I'll be telling stories of my involvement with the occult when I was younger. There's that. And the Bridge Paul Tour is the name of the tour we're going on. So if you want to check it out, bridge, B-R-I-D-G-E, all one word, Bridge Paul Tour. And you can check that out.

And city on a hill, I'll give more information. I get too much right away. But you can always email me and say, hey, what about the tour, and what about the preaching? If you want to combine, listen. Don't know what our schedule's going to be. It might even be go to a restaurant on a Saturday night or something like that and just have people meet us there. Because the show's down there in Salt Lake, and so enough people like to just kind of meet the radio guy.

We'll see. All right, so having said that, why don't we get the phone number out one more time? 877-207-2276. Let's get on the air with Alan from Virginia. Alan, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, man, thank you. How are you today? I'm doing OK. Hanging in there, man. Hanging in there.

What do you got? All right, so before I get started, is it OK if I ask some set of questions? Sure.

OK. So like you sometimes say, let's define our terms. And the term I'm wanting to define first, or define here, the only one, is all-knowing.

So I think it's a pretty, I think my definition for all-knowing is the state and not the action of knowing everything. Would you agree? How about this?

Modify everything actual as well as potential. How about that? OK. All right. All right. So do you agree that there is scripture that points to God being all-knowing, such as Psalm 147, verse 5? Yes. And 1 John 3, verse 20. That's right, 1 John 3, 20, he knows all things, yeah.

All right. And because of this, all three persons of the one God, God the Father, God the Son, slash the Word, and the Holy Spirit are all-knowing, correct? Yes. OK. And since all three persons of God were the beginning, they were always all-knowing, right?

Correct. What church do you go to, by the way? I know where you're going, but keep going. What church do you go to? OK. Or are you an atheist? I'm not an atheist, no.

I was going to Clover Hill Baptist for a little bit. So you're a Christian now? Are you a Christian, or what? Yes.

Yes. So don't get me wrong, I'm not denying that God is all-knowing or anything like that. OK. Just saying, this is the point of arguments I know from atheists. That's OK, but keep going. Sorry, just checking.

OK, no worries. So we've got all three persons of God were the beginning, and they were always all-knowing. Since Jesus has two natures, divine and human, and the Father and the Holy Spirit only have one, which is divine, does this mean that the all-knowing of God is part of his divine nature through process of elimination? Yeah, so it automatically is part of his divine nature. It's a necessary property of God, all-knowing, OK?

OK. So since it is a part of God's divine nature, then that means when Jesus was in the womb of Mary, he was all-knowing, right? We don't know. And see, this is where we get into we just don't know things. We don't know to what extent the attributes of both natures being ascribed to the single person were working in that situation.

We know that the divine nature has to have all knowledge, and it can't not. So when it's in the womb, in union with the human, we don't know what relationship that was. We don't know if there was a characteristic of humanity in which the full cognition wasn't communicated to the person which was under development.

I mean, it's really complicated. We just don't know. On a base level, we could say, well, yeah, nature knows all things. So to what extent did he know when it was a zygote, a fertilized egg? And we just can't answer. We just don't know. Did God cooperate with limitations?

Did he just not access that ability? But there's some ifs and not so good ramifications of that. You see, it's a tough one, OK? I'll alter my belief. I believe that from the instant Jesus was formed, since he has both natures, since the all-knowing is attached to his divine nature, then he was always all-knowing.

Yes. That's my belief of it. Luke 2.52, he kept growing in wisdom and stature.

I was going to go to that too, yep. So Luke 2.52, how can he grow in wisdom if he has all knowledge? Because with all knowledge, that's called omniscience, but omnisapience is all wisdom. So he has that.

That's part of his nature. So how can he grow in wisdom? So yes, so there is that. And there was also Luke 2.40, which in the NASV 95, it talks about increasing wisdom. But in different versions, it talks about being filled with the Holy Spirit. Oh, interesting.

Let me look at the comparisons. ESV, filled with wisdom, filled with wisdom, strong in spirit, filled with wisdom. Let me look at the Greek. Increasing, oh, it's from pleroma, which means to fill or plerao, so being filled with wisdom.

Interesting. So I could see why someone might say filled with the Holy Spirit in wisdom, but if it doesn't say that, I wouldn't add it in there. But being filled in wisdom, increasing in wisdom, which would come from God, yep, no problem. So one of the things where I have a hard time entertaining the camp of he wasn't all knowing is to then that denies that he, well, I'm wording this wrong.

I have a hard time going into the camp of believing that there's a chance he was not all knowing just because that would then deny that God was all knowing. And I feel like that's a heresy. Correct. Now let's stop here for a second and talk about a doctrine called the communicatio idiomatum. And then there's another doctrine called inseparable operations.

So let's go over them. The communicatio idiomatum is the teaching that in the one person of Christ are two natures, divine and human. That's called the hypostatic union. But that the attributes of both natures are ascribed to the single person. Jesus says, I'm thirsty, human nature.

I'll be with you always, divine nature. So the same person, I, said both. So the attributes are attributed to the one person. It's called the communication of the properties, which is important because when Jesus died on the cross, only the human nature died as a sacrifice of divine value.

Because the representation of the death on the cross was by the person of Christ who has the quality of divine attributes as well. So there's a doctrine called inseparable operations. It's kind of related to perichoresis. And perichoresis in the doctrine of the divine simplicity, blowing people's brains out probably with all this stuff, divine simplicity simply says that God is one simple substance, the divine substance. Perichoresis says that the three persons of the Godhead are interdwelling each other. So what we would say, the perichoretic relationship in divine simplicity is a shorthand term for saying all of that.

All right. There's a doctrine called the inseparable operations. And what that is is the position that all the members of the Godhead are involved with everything that each one does.

And yet there's distinction. Because before the foundation of the world, they were in a perichoretic existence, a divinely simple being. So that the Father elected in the Son, who is existing in Christ, and the Holy Spirit is there mediating and working and will apply the redemptive work in the future. Jesus on Earth said, I can only do what I see the Father do, present tense. Whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner, present tense. So what Jesus is saying there is that he sees what the Father is doing and the Father is doing what he's doing. So this is called inseparable operations, that the operations of the members of the Trinity are not separable. Yet there's distinction.

This gets really tough. But this is the nature of God we're talking about. Now these are not contradictions, but they are paradoxical and not antinomies either. People can look up that word, antinomy.

A-N-T, antinomy. So having said all of that, now when we come to the person of Christ, he grew in wisdom and stature. Well, stature we get. How can he grow in wisdom? Could it be that what Luke was saying was that before people he was growing in wisdom, but he had all the wisdom and it was manifesting at different times. And so to them it was appearing to grow as he was growing in wisdom. That's one possibility. The other one is that there's a relationship between the divine and human nature in this as being under the law and that he would study the word and learn accordingly.

But how is that possible if he has, he's the author of the word. So we have a mystery here. It is a tough one. It's a tough one to fathom and to work through. And what I did was give a bunch of information that was supposed to clarify it, but really doesn't.

It just adds to the problem. So hold on, we've got a break. Hold on buddy. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276, here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on here with Alan.

Alan gave you a lot of information. There's even more we could talk about, but your turn. All right. Well, thank you for the theories and explanations so far, Matt.

OK. There's one other thing I didn't mention, though. OK. And that was he was under the law. And Galatians 4, 4, and then Hebrews 2, 9 says he was made for a little while to obey the angels. So we throw all that in with the Trinity, divine simplicity, the perichoresis, inseparable operations, incarnation, and the nature of the law all mixed together, and we have a complicated kind of a maze to kind of work through. What I'd like to say is, in light of all of this, that I don't know what the text actually means.

And if it means that he literally was growing in wisdom, then it could only mean that there was a cooperation with limitation of the divine nature somehow. And or he didn't access or choose to access the information, because there's a concept in the Bible where God says he will remember your sins no more. That's not the same thing as forgetting. Forgetting is something that happens to us. Remembering is something we choose to do. I will remember how you wronged me last week. I'll bring it up.

I'll remember it. So when God remembers it no more, it means he doesn't bring it up. So perhaps there's something to say that Jesus was not remembering everything, in that he had access but didn't choose to.

I'm not saying this is true. They're just logical possibilities, and there's strengths and weaknesses to all of them. And what does it mean to be made under the law? Because he's obligated to have someone he would call God, and so you call the Father God, my God and your God. Well, how is that possible if he's divine? So these kinds of questions all relate to the difficulty of the incarnation and all these big words I said combined, and what it all means. And theologians have wrestled with it for a long time.

And I certainly haven't figured it out. So OK? OK. Before I go, could I ask, could I tell you one thing, though?

Sure. So one thing I noticed, I'm going through your podcast right now, and one thing I noticed is that sometimes the volume of your callers is very contrasting to the volume of you. So usually you are clear and at a good volume, but it's really hard sometimes to hear other people with it.

And when I have to increase the volume so much, and the plosions sometimes are a little grating. OK. Well, we had a tech guy, I mean, our producer, listening to, he's hearing that probably because he's out doing something in the office there. So thank you for letting me know, because I can't tell you from this end, because on my end you sound fine. But it has happened before that people have said they have trouble hearing the caller every now and then.

So I don't know. Part of the issue, too, is that people are, because you probably have like a headset, I don't know if you have a boom mic or anything like that. Yeah, but people are sometimes calling through their cars or through their phones and stuff. And so sometimes their mic quality is a little bad, and also they muffle. They're kind of muffled, too. They'll talk sometimes really close to the mic, or just won't speak up well.

So it makes it worse. Sometimes your voice is like eight times louder than them, and like eight times clearer than them. And so I know you can't control that.

But I feel like any explosions you can do on your end to reduce them, like pop filters and stuff, or if you can change the ratio, I feel like those things you should be able to do to help the quality out. Well, I have a headset with a mic attached to the headset, which is to my left. And I can tap it like that. And so the puff sound isn't there.

It has a windscreen over it cap. But hey, it's something. And then the guy's listening, the producer's listening to this, and he'll probably convey the information to people. We'll see. So it's what it is right now, OK? I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thank you for your ministry, Matt.

Amen, by God's grace. Thank you. All right. All right. Have a good day. Bye. You too.

All right. Let's get to Scott from Utah. Scott, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, how are you doing?

Appreciate you taking my call. I was wondering what your opinion on how biblical tithing is taught in most churches today. Do you think it's still for today, or do you think that was under the law? And I feel giving is important. Obviously, there's bills to be paid and whatnot, but I really can't get it settled that it's still for today the way it's taught.

I was just wondering your opinion on that. Yeah, it's not for today the way it's taught in the Old Testament. That was a legal thing. You had to do obligation to keep the law at 10%. You're not obligated to give 10% or 20% or 1%. You're not obligated to tithe. So what the Bible talks about in the New Testament context is you freely give and support ministry, because God's given this to you, and you want to bless the expansion of the gospel. And that's what it comes down to.

And so we're free. And so my wife and I sometimes don't go to church because of her health, and so we kind of tithe differently by helping people out and doing things, and that's fine, too. Do you think so many churches are just afraid to not teach it like that? They think their ministers won't get paid and whatnot. Because to me, it seems pretty clear how it is for the Old Testament and not for the New.

But it just seems strange that it's such a coordinated effort to be taught the way it is. They use the same verses over and over again. What I say is, or it reminds me of George Mueller or something he said, I'll get to him in a second, but if I were a pastor of a church, a pastor of a church again, I would just say the tithe box is in the back, or the offering box. I wouldn't say tithe, I'd say offering box is in the back. Your offerings and givings are between you and God. We're not interested in how much. I don't want to know. We have somebody on staff who does that, keeps records for receipts, I'm not interested in knowing anything, who does what, and if you give a lot, praise God. If you don't give any, praise God.

It's between you and God. That's it, done. That's it.

That's the kind of thing that I think needs to happen. Now George Mueller was a guy in the 1800s. He died in, I think, 1898 or something like that, and he was called the Orphan King, and he had orphanages. And he just relied on God. And one thing he said when he was going to be a pastor before the orphanage thing started, he said that he would accept a pastorate position in a church under two conditions. And the first one was that, oh, I think the first one was first one and two mixed up.

But anyway, one of them was that they had paid pews that people who paid more money could sit up front, and that was better stature. And he said, get rid of that. And the second thing he said was that he would live only on the money that was tied, and that no one was to know that that was the deal.

He would only live on it if God provided. That was interesting. Hey, we'll be right back.

We've got a break. Hold on, man. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Scott, welcome back in here. Scott, are you there?

Yes, yes. I was just going to say, I've been in several churches where I've heard Matthew 23 used. And to me, when you read that, it's clearly talking to the Pharisees and scribes who are under the law. But they say that's a testament in the New Testament that it's still for today. And I can't get that in any way, shape, or form.

It's not there. See, this is a theological point that many people miss. So when Jesus was doing the Beatitudes, he was talking to covenantal Israel, because Jesus was only sent to the law sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15 and 24, he was not sent to the Gentiles.

But because Israel rejected the Messiah, then we, the Gentiles, are grafted in. This is the new covenant. But the new covenant isn't ratified until Jesus died.

When he died, he was resurrected. The new covenant's in effect. The new covenant, you see, technically, check this out. In the gospels, up to the point of Jesus' resurrection, the stuff that's before in the gospels, technically is Old Testament. No, it's not Old Testament, it's New Testament. But it's of the Old Testament era. And people are, what?

No, it is. It's not the New Testament era. Because when Jesus was born, it was still under the old law. It's not until the death of Christ and his resurrection associated there that the New Testament period comes in, which we mean by the covenant abound. Because Old Testament is Latin for covenant is testamentum. Old covenant, new covenant. Old Testament, New Testament.

That's what's going on. And so the tithing stuff in the gospels is Old Testament law. But in the New Testament, you don't find it after the New Testament covenant. In fact, you do find it in Hebrews, though, the word tithing, but it's talking about Old Testament stuff. So you're not obligated to tithe 10%. You're free to tithe 10%, if you want, or more. I've also heard the claim or the understanding that when people say, well, Abraham tithed, and that was before the law, because he tithed to Mickelsonic.

Yes, he did. But again, I don't see the transfer to the new covenant. But no, the law existed before Abraham. And not the codified law, but the law did, because there was still sin. Sin is not imputed when there is no law. Romans 5, 13. Well, if the law wasn't until after Abraham told the time of Moses, then no one sinned. But that's not the case. The first actual mention of the law is Genesis 2.17.

Do not eat of the tree, because if you do, you're going to die. That's a law, because it has a punishment associated with it. OK? This is why theology is so important.

It clears things up like this. So I say to people, like I say for now, this is a shameless plug, but I'll say, Karm needs your support, and we do. We really do need your support.

It's the only way we can do this. I live off the donations of others. That's how I make a living.

That's how I'm able to do everything I do, everything. And so I say to them, but first, support your church first. And then if you have anything else you want to give, then please consider us.

And that's how I believe it should be. But you're free to give a lot. You're free to give a little.

It just depends. All right, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

You're welcome very much. All right, well, God bless. All right, now let's get over to Jason from Arizona, then Bob from Lafayette after that, if you're still holding. He's been on a long time. Jason, you're on the air.

Thank you, Matt. In 1 John 5, 13, we're told that believers in Christ currently possess eternal life. We have it now. It's in the present tense. So we know that the outward man, the physical body, perishes.

So technically, I know you're an analytical, technical guy, we believers in Jesus, our soul and our spirit that continues on after death, currently has everlasting life. Is that correct? Correct. Well, praise God. That's enough to rejoice for the rest of my life.

Absolutely. And why do you have eternal life? Because of the grace of God and because he granted that you have faith, Philippians 1, 29, that faith is in Christ, John 6, 29.

Therefore, you're justified by that faith, Romans 5, 1, without the works of the law, Romans 4, 5. And Jesus says, he gives eternal life to them and they shall never perish. So Jesus equates eternal life with never perishing. And you go to John 3, 16, God's loved the world, he gave his only begotten son, whoever believed in him would never perish, but have everlasting life. Jesus equates eternal life with never perishing. And the reason we never perish is because of what Jesus did, not because of our goodness. Praise God. So Matt, technically, we have everlasting life, our soul and spirit, but the physical body is still subject to sin and death, right? Yep, that's correct. OK, so technically speaking, forgive me if I sound a little arrogant, I'm not at your level, but so if our soul has everlasting life, then our soul is sinless?

No. Everlasting life does not mean you're sinless, it means that you're not going to face eternal judgment and condemnation in hell. We know that we have sin, but because we're in Christ and Christ canceled a sin debt for the elect on the cross, Colossians 2, 14, though we experience sin in real time, all of that sin was imputed to Christ 2,000 years ago. And so all of it died with him, even the sins we commit today and tomorrow.

And so it's called the now and the not. OK, so when you're out of the flesh, then your soul cannot sin? I know I'm being technical, I'm just trying to understand. I don't say the soul can or cannot sin apart from the body, because the Bible doesn't say it can or cannot. But if it's sinned, you'd die the second death, right? Not necessarily, because the second death is damnation in hell.

That's not going to happen. Now when I say, as you said, I have to get more technical. So let's just say that we die with the Lord before the resurrection. We're just in our spirit, all right? Can we sin? I don't know. There's only two possibilities, yes and no.

If it's yes, does it mean we will, or does it mean we can but we won't? Because those are two possibilities within that. Just like a room full of light from every direction, there's no shadows that exist.

But the objects that can cause the shadows are there, but no shadows exist because the light is so prevalent. Is the glory of God so prevalent upon us and in us that we just don't sin, even though we have technically the capability? That's just a question. Or is it that the sinful nature abides somehow in the physical flesh relationship that we have separated from it, we just won't be able to sin anymore because we'll never desire to?

That's another possibility. I just don't know which one is the correct one. Yeah, I know there's a lot of, I know sin causes death, so I'm just thinking logically if the soul could sin, then we don't have eternal life because you can still die. So I'm thinking at some point we have to be totally sinless. We are sinless by, OK. Jesus canceled the sin of the cross.

No, no, no, this is OK. In Colossians 2.14 it says, He canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees which was hostile to us. He took it out of the way, having nailed to the cross.

The certificate of debt, kyrographon in the Greek, is the sin debt. If He canceled it for everybody who ever lived, no sin exists anymore for anybody. Everybody would have to go to heaven. This necessitates that Christ only legally bore the sin of the elect.

But that would mean that the elect were the ones chosen by the Father in the Son, Ephesians 1.4, before the foundation of the world. OK, then that means, that's right, that means they cannot lose their salvation. Then what then about the sins we commit? The sins we go about daily committing were all imputed to Christ 2,000 years ago. Well, any sin that we have committed or will commit has to be imputed to Christ. Potentially, I don't believe this is really possible, if we sin in heaven that would have been imputed to Christ. Because I don't believe that we're going to sin in heaven, OK? I'm just saying, I'm just talking about logical possibilities, and then we knock one or two of the pins out and say, that's not going to work, here's why, that's not going to work. So because we have to apply more aspects of logic and scripture to these other issues in order to lean a specific direction. So personally, I don't think we're going to be able to sin in heaven because we'll be in the presence of God, and where He is we're not going to.

Because He's just too great and pervasive. Thank you so much for your time, Matt. I appreciate you. OK, brother. God bless.

We'll see you. Thank you. All right. Sure.

Those are questions I've wrestled with for years, folks, and I don't have a great answer. I wish I did. But hey, if you have better information, call me up and show me. No problem. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages with Bob from Lafayette, what a lovely day. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. Let's get on the air with Bob. Bob, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. This is Bob.

I am in Louisiana. I've missed you on Clubhouse. I'm glad to see you're doing well. I've missed Joanne, too. Yeah, I don't do Clubhouse anymore because my club deck unit program won't work on my computer anymore. And I don't like the phone version of it.

It's too problematic for me. So I just haven't been on. Well, I've been working on the club deck.

So you might can reboot or try something else, but I don't know. I'm an expert in tech, OK? And I used to troubleshoot them to rebuild them. I know the tricks. And I've done stuff I could explain you wouldn't even know. And you still can't get it to work, OK?

Yeah, I got you. But the question that I've called about today, the question that was being asked today or that I asked was Moses had said that God would raise up a prophet that should be listened to, adhered to, and obeyed. And I asked, why are people trying to find out so much stuff from Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah when they could listen to what Jesus said? Well, you don't listen to what Jesus said.

That's a problem. So you talk like that, but you don't listen to who he is. You don't believe he's God in flesh.

You don't listen to him. Yeah, God was in Jesus. There's no doubt about that. Well, they didn't say that, because, come on, Jesus is God in flesh. He has two natures, divine and human.

It's not just God was in him like he's in me, like God indwells us. So I've talked to you so many times in trying to get you to see you're going to die in your sins if you don't reject your false teaching. Let me ask you a question. Yes, sir.

I've asked this of you before. Jesus says he and the Father will come and make their abode in us, the believers. He and the Father, God the Father can do this. And Jesus says he'll do it too. How is that possible if he's not God? John 14, 23, how is that possible? Well, I looked at Revelation where it said Jesus would come. And later it said God himself would be with us.

Both words are in the book. But you didn't listen. When I ask difficult questions of you and to others, they do what you do. Just ignore the text and go to something else. Because you've got to understand something.

I ask you a question because I know where your problems are. You ignore it, and you go someplace else, which means the question I have is a very big problem for you. You can't answer it, which shows you that your theological position is wrong, so you just ignore it. In other words, what you're doing is submitting the scripture to your preferences, not the other way around. You're an idolater. You're a false convert. You're not a true Christian.

So let me ask you again. In light of what Jesus said in John 14, 23, if anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him. How is it that Jesus says he and the Father will come and live in you? How is that possible if Jesus himself isn't God?

It just doesn't, like I said, it just doesn't look to me like that's what he's saying, but the Father will send Jesus. We will come to him and make our abode with him. We. That's the Father and Jesus.

That's we. Yeah, that means Jesus and God should be on the earth with me and you, doesn't it? It says we will come to him and make our abode with him.

OK. How could he do that? Well, doesn't that mean that they would both be here with us on the earth? Don't make us see the Father. No, you can't see the Father because he dwells in unapproachable light who no man has seen or can see. 1 Timothy 6, 16.

OK. So their interpretation there fails. So to abode, he's abode with us, that's what it means. He lives with us, in us, by us.

That's what it means. The Father's in us. How is Jesus going to do that too?

Well, I don't know. But I thought God was with us. I do believe Jesus is going to come and God also will be on the earth with us at some time. And he is abode or he will be abiding with us.

But didn't he? Is Jesus the Christ? Is Jesus the Christ?

Right? The Messiah. Yes, he's the Messiah. Ephesians 3.17. So that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. How can he do that? How can he dwell in your hearts? Everybody's hearts.

All these thousands, thousands, millions and millions of people. How can Christ as Jesus do that if he's not God? How can he do that? Ephesians 3.17. Like he said, wait in Jerusalem till you're in need of the power. The Holy Spirit will come and be in you.

That's how it happens. Does Jesus the Christ live in you, in your hearts? OK, does he? I have got the testimony of Jesus in my heart. But Jesus is in heaven with my Father. OK, it says that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. So that means Christ can dwell in the believer's hearts. So is he in your heart? Yes.

If no. The anointed, I am anointed. So yeah, Christ would have to be in me as Paul would say, yeah. Then how is Jesus able to live in multiple people's hearts at the same time if he's not God?

He doesn't. He lives in heaven with God, and he's doing things in heaven. But the Bible says he dwells in our hearts.

How can he be up in heaven with God and dwell in our hearts? OK, Ephesians 3.17. By the Spirit, you receive the Spirit. Don't change the word of God.

It's got to be by the Spirit. It doesn't say that. It says Christ may dwell in your hearts.

That's what it says. So is Jesus doing that? It's got to be by the Spirit, though. It doesn't say that by the Spirit. The Spirit, yeah, it's got to be by the Spirit. It doesn't say that.

How can it be any other way? A man can't dwell in my heart. So 2 Corinthians 13.5. Test yourself to see if you're in the faith.

Examine yourselves. Or do you not recognize just about yourself that Jesus Christ is in you unless indeed you fail the test that applies to you? See, you deny that Jesus Christ can live in you. By the Spirit, Christ is in me. That's not what it says. Jesus says Jesus is in. 2 Corinthians 13.5.

That's what it is. It says the same Spirit that raised Jesus. 3.17, 2 Corinthians 13.5.

Look. The same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus raised himself from the dead. John 2, 19 through 21. Destroy this temple three days. I will raise it up.

Future active indicative. Like you said, it's been debated a while. But anyway, I'm glad to hear you're well. No, it's debated among the Christians and the non-Christians, the true believers and the heretics. The Bible says what it says, and you deny what it says.

And I have to be strong with you. I don't deny anything Jesus said. Yes, did Jesus, he said, destroy this temple three days.

I will raise it up. Talk about his own body. John 2, 19 through 21. Did Jesus raise his own body up? According to Peter, he didn't.

OK. I said, did Jesus raise his own body up? I quoted what Jesus says.

Destroy this temple three days. I will raise it up. Did Jesus raise up his own body? Did he do it? No, I thank God. I don't think Jesus did it.

I think God did it. OK, so see, you continue to deny who Christ is. We're going to move along because we've got a few minutes left.

This should be one more call. Thank you. Thank you.

I'll catch you later. OK. All right, that's Bob. I had many conversations with him.

I know his M-O, and he's not a Christian. Clarice. Welcome, Clarice. You're on the air. Hi, Matt.

Hi. My question, before I get to my question, is those kind of people that you just got off the phone with, I mean, I've heard this guy call before. I don't know why he calls you, because he's not going to check. I mean, his rationalization is he is lost. I mean, his eyes are blind. His mind is blinded. I understand that. I just wondered why you carry on knowing that they're blind.

So that people can hear what the truth is, and hear it be defended, and learn what verses are useful so that they can benefit. But I think it just went over this guy's head. I've heard him before on this. Listen. But it didn't go over other people's heads. People might be on the fence. Oh, true. Not understanding something. True.

OK. I understand what you're saying there. OK, my question to you is, how do you approach someone? And I know it's all, if God's working in a person's heart, I'm talking about a sinner. How do you know when you're supposed to witness and talk to someone about their salvation and their soul? I'm not talking about on your radio program. I'm just talking about your everyday life.

And people maybe you have lost friends. Sir? When the opportunity arises. So do you start the conversation?

Or do you just, how do you? Today I went to Costco. Being very choppy with me, and you gave this 25-minute dialogue with this other person. Well, your questions are different, OK?

And yours is a good question, though. So today I went to Costco, and I went out to check out Line. A guy had a cross on who worked there. And I said, hey, I'd like a cross. Are you a Christian? I started the conversation. Sometimes I say, no, I'm not a Christian. I say, oh, why are you wearing that? And I might talk to them.

I might have a cross on myself. My last name is Slick. And so I use it, and I say, yeah, that's right. My last name's Slick. I'll show him a card to help pay something.

He said, you can't trust a guy named Slick, you know? And they'll chuckle. And I say, and I'm a reverend also. And it's just another opportunity. So I try and generate opportunities. But the thing that I tell people is just give it a try. Just look for opportunities. Ask God to open your heart and mind, and theirs too.

Take a risk, and give it a try. That's all. You know? Well, I wrestle with the fact that the verse in Matthew that says, don't give holy things to dogs. And who am I to say the person's a dog?

But I know, I have discernment enough to know that I'm not going to try to share the gospel with somebody that's cursing. And you know, they're not open for it. You don't know.

You just don't know. I remember once, though, I was at a gas station in San Diego getting gas. And a stoplight was right next to the gas station. And a guy pulled up to the left lane, and he's got his blaring rap music that's all foul and just at 80 decibels.

It's just blaring all over everywhere. And I ran out into the street. And I knocked on his door.

I scared a crud out of him. I said, what do you listen to that crap for? You need the Lord Jesus.

Because you've got a few seconds before the light changes. You need to repent of that stuff, that foul stuff that's getting in your heart and your mind. You need Christ Jesus as your Savior. You need to repent. And I just, the light turned to go.

What did he do? He was shocked. And I pointed out that the light just changed, so you got to go.

And I ran back across to get my gas and finish it. Wow. You never know. That's some Holy Ghost boldness right there. Yeah, well, you know. Well, you know, for me, and I've been thinking about it a lot, because I have a heart. My heart is for lost souls and also for prayer.

I have a prayer meeting in my home once a month. Can you call back tomorrow? Let's talk about this when we have more time.

Come back at the beginning of the show and we can talk. OK, I will on Monday. OK, sounds good. Have a wonderful weekend.

You too. Well, God bless. All right. Hey folks, sorry we're out of time.

I would have loved to talk to her some more. I can't. Hey, God bless. See you. Another program powered by the Truth Network.