The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network.
Live today is July 12th, 2023. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is violate 772072276 and if you want, you can email me at info at karm.org and you can just put the subject, you know, radio show question or radio show comment, something like that and I'll know it's radio show and then we can talk and get in there and do all kinds of stuff. Now, tonight's on, um, on a clubhouse at 9pm Eastern time. I'll be doing a Q and A. We do it weekly.
Been over doing it for over a year now. And last night I was on, uh, there also for about two hours discussing the Trinity and some other aspects of biblical theology. I love to be able to answer questions and kind of help people out and stuff like that. There you go. All right. Thanks. Hey, so why don't we just get on the air with Dave from Kansas city? Dave, welcome. You're on the air. Thanks.
I'm still trying to recover my four hours of sleep from the other night's debate. Oh, you mean the limited atonement thing and the, and the, and the after show. Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. I was good guy. But what'd you think of that?
What'd you think of the discussion? I couldn't go to sleep. I didn't go to sleep. I just pondering it all over my mind.
I obviously I came from a 3.1 count, 3.1 Armenian to a 5.0 and I came full circle. So I get where he was started out, but you can't, you know, you, you, you, you want it hands down, but you know, but that's the whole other debate. But, um, I want to ask you, we're studying in my Bible class AW Tozer. Now he grew up just 75 miles from me in, in central Pennsylvania. I didn't realize that, but he has a lot of, in his book, the pursuit of God, he has a lot of capital P presence, which I saw that is very prevalent in the new age, especially in Jesus calling and some of these other capital P presence. And I realized that when I went to Google him, that he actually had some mystical connections with brother Lawrence and some other people that were savory biblical. What do you know about AW Tozer? Well, he's a good theologian in a lot of areas.
I think he holds to annihilationism though. I'm not sure if I can remember. And, uh, for that, I couldn't trust him. Just this is me.
If someone's right. And that's just, that's just me. And I'm not saying everything he says is bad. Uh, he's pretty, you know, pretty knowledgeable and, and stuff. But when someone, you know, it starts saying this kind of stuff and I've studied it extensively. I just, come on, you know, you should do better than that.
And, uh, so it just puts a cloud over them and, uh, I'll just dismiss them as a, as a resource that just, just me, uh, you know, I don't, but the other net, you know, I mean, um, you could get some, you can glean some good stuff. You just have to make sure everything he's saying is biblical. Okay. Yeah. I feel I have to get to discernment.
I just read Tim chalice's book on discernment and thought it was great for people like that. Then why are you listening to me? Because you have sharpened the sword. Okay. Okay.
The other side of the issue. That's good. Okay. That's the discerning thing.
Learn how to refuse stuff. Careful. We gotta be careful. Yeah. We gotta be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater sometime.
And that's what I was shambled. Okay. Right.
Yeah. You know, it's for me, uh, because I've done so much theology, so much apologetics that, uh, I just don't want to me, just me, I don't want to delve into a theological commentary set from somebody who I know is holding to a position. I really just, it was not like pre-trib rapture, post-trib rapture, whatever. But this is, this is too, too important, you know, and I think there's too many ramifications to it. And I just go forget, I'm just, I'm just not going to deal with it. I don't want it to be read being so cautious about everything. He says, why, why do that? You know? So that's why I don't do it.
I don't read. Well, thank you for that. Okay. Yeah. Now, John Stott, uh, a firm, uh, annihilation of sinners as well as Edward fudge, which I read some of the fudge stuff in his arguments and oh my goodness, I'm thinking, dude, how can you be that bad at stuff?
Now Mark pinic is better. And, uh, but I think he holds to annihilation as well. Um, and I, you know, I have questions about the basics and I've talked to annihilationists, uh, I'll ask them basic questions, just very basic stuff I know about, and they can't seem to answer them very well. And so, uh, as far as I'm concerned, annihilationism is just a very weak position should not be followed. Right.
That's my position. Well, it, it, it throws Christ admonition that the, where the worm, you know, doesn't die. Oh, but it did die. But don't you know, it did die. The worms weren't eternal. We just, they did die. So therefore, uh, hell's not eternal. That's what they'll do.
And I'll say, no, no, no. You're missing the point of the illustration. The illustration isn't to be taken literally in what it it's used. It's what's intended to use.
And they make these mistakes all the time, all the time. And like, and like NT wrong, right? NT wrong. You are right about it.
That's correct. Yeah. All right, man. Love you.
Amen. Appreciate it. God bless. Okay. All right. Thank you. And, and I want to tell everybody out there, please pray and support this ministry. Yeah. Thanks for reminding me.
I got it. I have to start asking people to support us more because, uh, it's getting really tight and we've got missionaries that we're supporting and these missionaries, they depend on us. Uh, they depend on us seriously. Like we have a, thanks.
I'll just stop talking about this now. And then we'll get the next caller, but, but we have a, you know, a full-time guy in, uh, in Barranquilla, uh, which is in Columbia and he reaches out. He's excellent in theology.
Excellent is English and Spanish. And he does all kinds of teachings, open up school down there. He's done all kinds of stuff and we're the one who supports him.
And he's able to do this because of that. And you know, we're losing the, we're gradually losing money because it's the economy. And, um, that's why I asked for the Christian, just to sign up with $5 a month, $5 is so little. And, uh, we just ask for that and that's what we do.
I think support, I think begin, begin by praying for a ministry and then you'll end up supporting them. So, Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. That's a good idea. Yeah. And we do need that prayer.
We do. There's a lot of, my wife's computer had a little virus on it. Good thing I'm an ex computer tech. I was able to take care of that, but we got, we're under attack all the time. You know? Yeah. All right. Love you. Okay. God bless.
All right. And by the way, uh, we're also supporting a guy in Brazil and he is reaching out into his community as a pastor running a church and he's reaching out to the youth in the area and he's ministering to them, having church services and things he does for the youth in the area, which is humongously important. And, um, we don't pay him very much, but he's just barely able to make ends meet from what we pay him. And so, uh, more frequently now we have to push back paying our missionaries a week and then a week again because we had the will of the funds come in and we've got a guy we're supporting going through seminary in Turkey and he speaks four languages and Russian, Turkish, English, and another language.
I forgot which. And so when he's graduate, when he graduates, he wants to work with Carm and he wants to do translations in multiple languages instead of a center for apologetics out there. So this is awesome stuff. And, uh, we're just asking $5 a month.
All you got to do is go to carm.org c-a-r-m dot o-r-g forward slash donate. But let me tell you folks, if you sign up, you're not going to get a whole bunch of kudos. You're not going to get a whole bunch of pats in the back.
Okay. It's just not the way it works. Uh, it's, it's not much, but I'm not knocking that.
But we just want a lot of people to do that. And, uh, your reward comes from God. And you have to trust that God is working through even that $5 to bring about, um, the furthering of his kingdom. And, uh, I'm blessed to be able to at 66 years old still work as hard as I do. My, my body's still in good shape. My mind is well, pretty good shape.
My wife would have some issues with that, but, uh, able to do that. And, uh, we're just asking for your support. Please consider supporting us.
Pray for us if you can't. Okay. That's okay. You don't just, but we do need it. Matt.
I mean, uh, carm.org forward slash donate c-a-r-m dot o-r-g forward slash donate would be humongously helpful. All right. Rich or Rick from high point. Hey Rick, welcome. You're on the air.
Thank you, sir. Yesterday, I'm going to talk to you on opinion about something yesterday. A guy was talking to you and you said, he said he hopes to meet you.
You and him might have a fear. And you said, uh, just as long as it's not bud light. And then you were talking about the Disney situation and I heard you in a sort of wreck them over the coals.
Now I get it. Okay. But now, I'm two years older than you. I'm 68.
But now I know I'm from the South. You can tell that by the way I talk, but the point being, uh, there's a lot of old school Christians are saying, Lord have mercy. This man's talk about drinking on the air and here's a Christian and how do we talk about this? I want your opinion on all of that.
Sure. Proverbs 31 verse six, give strong drink to him who is perishing and wine to him whose life is better. So the Bible tells us to have alcoholic beverages as a medicinal form, not to be abused because the Bible also talks about the drunkards are to be rejected. So that that now when you go to John chapter two, the wedding of Cana, it says on the third day, there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee. Now incidentally, when you go to the third day of creation, that's when plants were made. Notice this on the third day is when Jesus made wine, which is plant based.
I just think it's an interesting thing. There were six, uh, stung water pots. Now the six were of lakes also to the created effort, the created, uh, six days, six water spots. On the third days when he came in, this is a reference.
This is, this is hinting at what's going on. Now here's a question. When God made the plants, did he make them as seeds or does he make them as plants? Well, he made it mature. That's what he does.
That's what he did. He made man. He didn't make a baby that just walked around and 30 years later became Adam. He made a full grown man.
This is what God does. So when Jesus made wine, it was real wine. It was real wine. And I know a lot of people out there and if you want to hold to the idea that Jesus, the blonde haired black Caucasian surfer, Jesus would never make wine. Well, you're wrong. I don't care if you don't like it, uh, but you can't argue from the scriptures that it was only grape juice. It just doesn't make any sense.
I was talking to somebody just literally a half hour ago. Would Jesus be allowed in your church? Would he be allowed in your church? It's a serious question because Jesus was accused of being a drunkard and a glutton. Why was he accused of those things?
Because he went to those places where those people were. Now if Jesus was with them and there's no problem with Jesus having wine, it's not a problem. It's not a sin.
The Bible prescribes it. So a lot of Christians have a higher view of Jesus than Jesus does. And I sometimes wonder, would Jesus be allowed in your church? Because, you know, he, he drank it. He went out with the gluttons. He hung out with the people who were drunkards, with the hypocrites. He talked to the people who were prostitutes.
Well, I'm sorry, you can't do that and be allowed in our church, you know? It sure did. It sure did. Yeah. Yeah. So here's a question. Would Jesus be allowed in your church or your home? If you say, no, drinking is sinful, Jesus would never do that.
But you better search the scriptures. Now I'm not saying it's okay to go out there and do all this partying. I'm not saying that.
Not at all. Be responsible. It's just that we can't be overly legalistic.
And so, so legalistic that even Jesus wouldn't be welcome in our church. There you go. There you go. Hold on. We've got a break, buddy. I know I was going.
It's just a sore spot with me. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages and talking back with Rick. Please stay tuned. Everybody, welcome to the show. Let's get back on there with Rick.
Hey, Rick, you still there? Yes. OK, one other thing. It is difficult sometimes. OK, I was raised Democrat. I'm independent as you are. I heard you say you independent. This is what frustrates me a lot when I hear you talk. You constantly talk about these right wing liberals, which is OK. And but then you talk about, you know, the abortion thing is a big deal. The right to life and homosexuality, yada, yada, yada.
On the conservative evangelical Republican press site. Now, in your mind, I'm assuming from what I hear, not just from you, but from a lot of conservative people, is it possible for a Democrat or a liberal to be a Christian? Yes. Yeah, technically. OK, well, you never heard that. You and I both know you never heard that, though. It's always about the conservatives and even you do it a lot.
But that's your prerogative. But to me, it's on one side and now 68. I can remember years ago in politics for Republican Democrats who worked side by side all the time. Yeah, our country is being divided.
The polarization has occurred. It's occurred since the left got in power and they're in power. The hypocrisy, the foolishness of the left is that when they're not in power, they're like the Muslims.
Let's talk peace. But when they are in power, they go after the people who are against them. And this is what the Democrats have done.
The hypocrisy of the left, the evil that the left produces. I'm not saying the Republicans are any better, because if they're real men... They're not. They're not at all. No, they're turncoats and they're rhinos. And so I think Republicans are just less bad.
That's all just less bad. But I don't trust a Democrat anymore. I can throw an elephant because I think it's a it's a mind control cult kind of attitude. I feel the same way about a Republican. Because it's sort of like racism on us because like I said, demographics make a lot of difference. Because like I said, I live in North Carolina from the south. And I know tons, literally quite a few politicians who you wouldn't be able to tell from a Democrat or a leftist until they get on that political stage to be seen.
I know them personally, but that's OK. I mean, it's politics. So it is. And the left is basically communistic and they're intolerant, communistic. And the right is just following after them. So, you know, or the Republicans. So, you know, it's just we don't we don't need them in power. We need to get rid of them. Look what happens to the Dem run cities, Democrat run cities. I mean, the crime is just out of control. Yeah, OK. Yeah, I agree. But now a lot. No, I'm not really a Biden-Bangford thing. But a lot of stuff that this man saying that he would be inherited a lot from the Trump era. It's not all one sided, man. You know, I know Trump wasn't perfect, but I'll tell you, didn't have an invasion coming from the south.
And there was a positive movement in and production. The GNP. I mean, come on. Biden's an embarrassment. He's an embarrassment.
I talk to people all over the world and I talk to people all over the world, different countries. They're they're they're stupefied at how Biden can be president. And he's an idiot. I'm sorry, but he is. And I think personally, my opinion is the left hasn't impeached him.
But if if anything, like what he had done and happened to Trump would have been in, they would have been impeached him as soon as they could, because that shows that hypocrisy of the left. So who's really in control? That's my question.
I'm sorry. I don't I am a very, very hard pessimist when it comes to our government. I don't trust it. I don't trust it. I don't. I don't either. Now, I'm going to tell you, you see, this is another thing that broke me on the conservative Republican side. I'm talking personally here in North Carolina. The Republican senator here has the critical race theory.
He never did. And the senators is another one who's taken it out. Oh, OK. We have to do you have a Bible related question or we can get, you know, what's up? Let's get back on track here. Because we're talking about, you know, I mean, OK, we just get into about, you know, DeSantis now. It's like, whatever, if you don't if you don't talk to Mark, I'm saying if you don't teach American history, true American history, this is not a racist statement. Now, I'm saying it plainly tells you, well, America was never born or bred for black people, never was. But now black people, America lived off the hands of black people, but they were never meant to be equal or nothing.
Labor proves that today. OK, we'll tell you what we're going to do. We're going to move along.
We move along. There's a lot of atrocities that occurred. But I'm going to research the I've heard that the first black the first slave owner was a black guy. I'm going to research that if anybody has that verified. First slave owner in the colonies, Anthony Johnson.
So I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm going to research it. And I think that people who live in the past are going to repeat the past and become slaves of the past. I think that people need to forget about what happened back then.
And, you know, it's all going racial division and stop wanting reparations. I didn't do anything with slavery. My parents didn't do anything. Their grandparents didn't.
They came over from Germany, had nothing to do with it, you know, and it's just I just get so tired of the money hungry people who who don't want to work hard and be successful based on what they can do. That's what bothers me, you know, and it goes for anybody, everybody. OK, I'm a black American. I'm not. I'm a black American. I'm not African American because I want to say you're African American.
Don't like this like saying, but look at that. Just call yourself an American white people. I don't look I don't call myself a white American. I'm a black American.
No, no. Just say you're American. Who cares what color you are? Look, I'm an American.
That's it. You're an American. We agree on that. But we would never get there. This is why we don't get there if we start calling ourselves by our color. If we start referring to ourselves by our color. Come on, Rick. If we start referring to ourselves by color, then no one's going to get it. Oh, look, Rick, we got to go. OK, look, I'll tell you. OK, we got to go, buddy.
Look, folks, if we start identifying ourselves by our color and our sexual identity, these are the kinds of things that cause division and lack of harmony in the country causes problems. Let's get to Elijah from Pennsylvania. Elijah, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. So my question today is this. I went on to go back on to the video that you had the other day to talk about limited apartment with Dan Shepper. And I found a comment because I couldn't I couldn't think of a question that you might go.
So I just, you know, decided to bring this comment comment to this question on. So he said, how would Matt handle this scripture? The Lord forgave his servant and then took back his forgiveness and demanded payment based upon service behavior. I think goes on to quote Matthew 18, 22 to 35. You are familiar with it. It's just a parable is meant to illustrate a single point.
And you got to understand that what Jesus was doing is speaking to Covenant Israel. Oh, there's a break. So when you get back, we'll talk about it and explain what's going on there and why it doesn't pose any challenge in Reformed theology. So hold on, folks. We have four open lines. You're going to give me a call. Eight, seven, seven, two, zero, seven, two, two, seven, six. We were right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at eight, seven, seven, two, zero, seven, two, two, seven, six. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody, thanks for still tuning in. What's going on? Hey, I want to give thanks to Roger eight.
Let's get Rogers one APC for the five dollar rant on rumble and also deli fry. Hey, thanks for the support. We really do appreciate it. It does help. And we just are very thankful for that. Which reminds me, folks, if you want to support us, we do need that. Please go to karm dot org forward slash. Donate carm karm dot org forward slash donate.
We asked five dollars a month. OK, now let's get back on with Elijah from Pennsylvania. You're there.
Yes, I'm still here. All right. So that parable is about the unjust steward, an unrighteous slave, actually, and how he forgave. He was forgiven and then he didn't forgive. And then the one who forgave him put him back in prison for punishment. And so they'll say, is he that refused limited atonement?
No, it doesn't. The parable is meant to illustrate the necessity of the Jewish people to forgive. God remembers. And if you're going to live under a covenant system, then you're obligated to follow covenant rules, covenant boundaries, and you're obligated to forgive and to move on. And if you don't do that, it's a manifestation of the lack of forgiveness that's in your heart. It's a lack of regeneration in your heart. And so we have to ask questions. If someone like if that guy would have brought that up to me, I just said, well, let me get this straight. Are you saying God will forgive and then unforgive somebody?
How's that possible? Doesn't he know everything and the ultimate place of everyone whom he's called for salvation? And does God regenerate an unregenerated person depending on their actions? Will they forgive or not forgive? Of course, this doesn't make any sense. And so when people bring that that pre-copy up to me, I try, I ask them the questions to show that the intention of what they're trying to ask to refute isn't working and doesn't work in that.
Furthermore, the parable is meant to illustrate the issue and necessity of being forgiving. You have been forgiven much so forgive. That's what you're obligated to do. All right. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. Are you one of the guys out there in Pennsylvania that I'm going to be seeing out of the church in a few weeks, a few months? No, no, no, no, not made up, but I must be somebody else. Yeah.
I'm going to go out there in, uh, September, going to speak at a conference. No, Mickey. It's all right. Just again, um, uh, I got a second question. Sure. Okay. So, uh, the scripture where, uh, I believe I was, I believe it was maybe Solomon that, that wrote this in the Psalms.
I think it's Psalm 51, 10, if I remember correctly, where it says, where he's praying to the Lord and he says, and he says, Lord, please do not take away your Holy spirit from me. And many people believe that this is proof that you can do your salvation because they think that if this guy takes his spirit from you, that means you've angered him or grieved his spirit and you're no longer saved. Okay. Yeah, I'm familiar with that argument also, uh, there's different things to consider. One is, uh, the position that's proposed that because the atonement of Christ had not been offered yet, that the permanent indwelling of the Holy spirit wasn't possible.
That's one position. I don't necessarily agree with that. Another one is that don't take your Holy spirit from me. It doesn't mean it will happen or that it could happen, but that it's a movement, uh, it's a request of, of Dave, of David to say, please don't do that. Well, does that imply it could be, well, let's just say it, it it's possible if that's the case, then what does it mean to be taken? Does the Holy spirit, uh, when he says, don't take, uh, he says, don't cast me with your presence and don't take me away your Holy spirit from me. Don't take me away your Holy spirit from me is David saying he can lose his salvation. Well, it wouldn't make any sense. And there's reasons for that, but, or is he saying that in his desperation of his sinfulness, that he is undergoing and the weight of his sin upon him, he cries out like this.
So this is why this, this prick happy is difficult to properly analyze. When people say it means you can lose your salvation, then I have questions for them. Okay. Does it mean then that Jesus paid for their sins and then they still go to hell?
They're all paid for. Does it mean that you keep your salvation by your goodness? Because what would happen if David repented? Well, repentance is compliance with the law.
Does he then regain his salvation by his actions? These are the questions they'd have to ask with them. And a lot of times when people ask that question, don't think through these things very well and very deeply. And so I try and help them along a little bit. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. Okay, brother.
God bless. All right. Thank you. Talk to you soon.
All right, man. Thanks a lot. Hey folks, you want to give me a call? All you got to do is dial 8772072276.
You have four open lines. Let's get to minister Paul from North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air. Thank you, man. Thank you for taking my call.
Sure. Um, quite the tail end to, uh, the caller before last. And you all were having a discussion about African Americans shouldn't call themselves African Americans. We should just call ourselves Americans.
We should get reparations. And I think that's, and it's troubling to me when people, uh, start rhetoric like that and actually use the Bible for justification of it kind of takes me back to slavery time. Uh, when, uh, the white pastor or the black pastor, that slave owner sent speak to the enslaved Africans, he would use different scriptures to justify slavery. So when I listen to that dialogue or that, I guess, monologue that you all have, it kind of rubbed me the wrong way and a little presumptuous when non African Americans or African Americans who pretend to speak for the whole group of us. The group of us began to spout rhetoric like that.
It's really troubling, especially using scriptures. Okay. Can I ask you some questions? Sure. Follow me. Sure. Where were you born?
I was born in North Carolina. Okay. So I was born in Wyoming and my ancestors are German.
My last name slick is a derivation of schlichting. So should I then identify myself as a German American? Yes, you're right and it will be resumption presumptions of me to tell you to do otherwise.
Okay. Um, and so, uh, here's another question in the Bible. Do does God ever identify anybody by their skin color and use that? No, because actually, actually skin color, uh, really came into effect around the 16th century. We have Blumenbach and others who began to divide, uh, men into colors. The actual idea of race did not exist during biblical times.
People talk about their different tribes and that's nationality. Okay. I'm not sure I understood you. Are you saying that the skin color differentiation didn't start until the 15th, 1600s? Is that what you said? Or did I just miss understood? Yeah, no. As far as labeling man, you mean the skin colors, the skin colors were there. They just weren't identified that way. No, let me be, let me be clear and let me give you a point of reference.
The history of white people by male urban painter is one book I'm currently reading. But, um, the color issue, I'm curious, are you saying that the physical color differentiation didn't really develop until the 15 hundreds or did I misunderstand you politically, politically? No. Okay.
The physical, physical, physical. Let me clarify. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm asking you a specific question. You're not answering the question.
Look, no, you're not answering. Okay, we're done. Okay. I had to hang up on him. Look, if he's not going to answer a simple question directly, uh, there's a problem.
Okay. Now, if you want to call back, he's welcome to call back, but I'm just asking up for clarification. That's all I was doing was he saying, I can't be that I heard that it can't be that up until the 15 hundreds skin color didn't exist, uh, like black and white, but that's what I thought.
I just don't understand. Well, what's the, he should have said, oh no, I wasn't what I was saying. Oh, okay, let's go on. Oh, fine. No big deal. I mean, my hearing's not that good sometimes. I don't want to make sure I'm understanding.
But notice what happened all of a sudden he wouldn't let me even talk to my own radio show. Why is that? So I want to make a thing about race. You know what guys and girls, I'm a, I'm a white guy. Wow. Oh boy.
I said it. Look, I don't care what color you are. I don't care. And I'm tired of hearing about it. I'm tired of hearing about it in the Bible.
God doesn't refer to them as black and white and doesn't differentiate. This is something I believe is from the devil in order to separate people, to segregate people. I don't believe in it. I don't believe it's right. I don't believe we should be doing it. I don't believe this is my opinion.
You do what you want. It's my opinion. I don't believe we should identify ourselves by our skin color. I'm a black American. Why?
What's that? Oh, I'm a white American. Okay.
So they're not coming back at you. Is it okay? If it's okay for you, it's okay for me to, what's the reason? Oh, because of slavery in the past.
Well, I wasn't involved with it and my parents weren't and their parents weren't. So why am I supposed to be sitting here and having you speak about how you are and I'm supposed to identify the way you do it? It's stepping to the left and let's go into sexual identity stuff. You can do what you want. You identify whatever with you want.
I just get so tired of hearing black, this white, that brown, that I just, you know what? The Bible doesn't talk like that. I'm going to refer to you biblically. You're a human being, you're a man, you're a woman, a child of God, or you're an unbeliever.
Those are the categories of division that I address and I think that Christians ought to do the same thing and leave these divisions behind and put your eyes on Jesus and march towards him. Put your eyes on Jesus and march towards him, we'll be right back after these messages. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show.
Stirring the pot. Let's get back on the air with Paul. Hey, Paul, welcome back on.
Yes, thank you. Now, please don't over talk me incessantly, okay? I don't, I don't really appreciate that, okay? Okay. I was actually answering your question, but continue. No, I'm just saying, uh, the Bible doesn't identify spider skin color. Why are we Christians doing that? Can I answer now?
Of course you can. Okay. I just didn't want to get cut off again.
Like I was explaining, like I was explaining. Color wasn't politicized until around the 18th century or so, we're Blumenbach when he divided mankind into five different races in the biblical days, people were known by them, their culture and their religion, not so much their color. So that's why it's not mentioned in the Bible. Oh, so that is not mentioned in the Bible for political reasons. I would prefer to say that God made one race, the human race, and there's two groups of people we need to be concerned with the saved and the unsaved. Those are the biblical groupings.
That's the identification. He has a nation of Israel. That's a covenant relationship, covenant people.
He's not done with them. I am against this. My is my opinion. I'm against a self identification of people by their color.
I think it causes, I think it helps support division. If I go into a so to speak black church, okay, I don't care. I just don't care. I just, do you love Jesus? Yes. Praise God.
You're my brother, my sisters. That's all I care about. Why are people living in the past and identifying with color? Because that's from so long ago. Why? Okay.
Can I pose a counter question? Sure, who actually, if God created man, one race, the human race, who actually divided mankind into colors politically? I don't know sinners. And also, you know, there was something called polygenesis and the early people will, um, in the 18th century or before, uh, some of them didn't even subscribe to the Bible, but they did. Uh, some of them didn't even subscribe to the idea that God created one race. They believe that different colors came from different races, polygenesis. So when you're talking about the, if, when you're talking about, uh, having a problem with mankind divided into colors, it wasn't African Americans. It wasn't black people who divided men into colors. Again, that was people like, uh, Blumenbach. Was he a white guy?
Um, I think he was, he was German. Okay. Uh, yeah. One of your, the title here says minister, Paul, are you a minister? Are you a pastor? Yeah, I'm ordained back. I was ordained in 1989 as a Baptist. Excuse me. Okay. 1998 as a Baptist medicine. Minister Paul Scott, I'll give my whole name and you can Google me, minister Paul Scott, it's all there. That's okay.
Um, so, so let me ask you, what was the title of the title here? In the Bible. Does God categorize people by skin color? Does he categorize people by skin color?
Yeah. Does he know God does not, God does not, you're supposed to be a Christian and you must be following the word of God. So then should you, I'm just asking, I'm not saying there's a right or wrong to this. I'm just asking the question in light of this.
Well then is it the right thing to do as a Christian to identify ourselves by skin color? I just, I'm not saying it's right around. There's a question.
Yeah, yeah. But let me, let me correct you. You assumed I was a Christian. Well, with the word minister. Yeah, I'm a Bible believer, but I don't identify myself as a Christian because the word Christian didn't exist until Antioch. So I'm a Bible believer, but I don't identify as Christian. Do you believe Jesus never called himself a Christian? Uh, is Jesus God in flesh? I don't even get into a theological discussion because it depends. Some people believe he was born that way. Other people believe he didn't become the son of God until the baptism. So that's a theological question that really doesn't have anything to do with the color. What do you think? I don't think.
Apparently you don't. Look, uh, you're, you're not a, uh, you're not, I would not call you a minister of the gospel because, um, for one thing, you're stuck in racism and another thing is you don't even know who Jesus Christ is. I know his name wasn't Jesus Christ. Look, Jesus Christos in the Greek. You started calling him Jesus Christos. Jesus.
That's how it's pronounced in the Greek. You know, Matthew 1 21. So is Jesus God in flesh? It's a very critical question to see what your basics of your knowledge are about the word of God.
It's not a critical question because give it the, the, a lotus has said it different ways. Now we're done. We're done. Um, I don't want to get into this guy because, uh, we got people waiting and I'll just get angry with him and I don't want to get angry. I don't want to be like that, but, uh, he's not a minister of the gospel, not a true gospel.
He doesn't even know who Jesus is. He's stuck in, um, in, in racist mentality and thought, this is my opinion. Now, if I'm wrong, please call up and correct me if you guys think I am.
I'll listen to it. I'm open to being corrected. This is a touchy issue, but, uh, biblically speaking, there's only one race, the human race, and that's how we are to consider ourselves, especially as Christians.
I think that the idea of, uh, identifying ourselves by color is a problem. Why don't I say, well, I'm an over six feeder. There's a guy in the office here with me. He's, he's, well, how tall are you? Six, five, he's six, six. I'm six feet. Six feet. So we're, uh, I guess let's just say I'm stretching.
I'm over sick. Look, I'm over six feet or we should identify yourself in the six feet and over club. That's how we are. Identify ourselves by that. We asked me to identify ourselves. I'm obviously very much better looking at him, obviously. So, um, you know, maybe we should have a, uh, a club or identification on looks or skin color.
Oh, wait, we already went through that. Or how about height or weight? I'm over 200. Are you over 200?
He's over the case over 200. So you see, we, when we adopt certain things like this, you limit yourself to in sinful ways, you limit yourself to things that you don't have to limit yourself to. Don't, don't limit yourself to a black, uh, American, uh, any more than I limit myself to a white American that by those definitions, there's division in there. We're saying I'm identifying myself first by skin color and then by where I'm born and the, the nation I live in. I'm a black American. I'm a white American.
I think those titles help support and promote racist thought. That is my opinion. Oh, I know not very popular for me to say things like that, but I don't care. I'm so sick and tired of the division that occurs in the world. This is the work of the devil and it occurs in the, in the, um, the Christian church as well.
I am so tired of it. If we Christians could stop thinking in terms of black and white and where we came from, this guy was born in America. I was born in America. He's an American.
I'm American. That's it. That's as far as it goes with me in my mind. Hey, oh, you happen to see a guy come over? It happened to be black in a skin color. Okay, whatever. That's nice. He probably looks at me and goes, Hey, he's a white guy. Okay, that's nice. Now what?
Now what? I don't care. Jesus, he did not identify us by our skin color and what the Bible does is identify us by our place in Christ. Our identity should be in Christ. We should say I'm a Christian American because our Christianity should be before political affiliation. Our identify identification with Christ should be the place that's most important. It says the Bible says there's the sheep and the goats. Jesus used that identification.
Those who are his and those who are not his Christians start thinking in those terms and stop thinking the terms of what color you are as primary and everything else secondary because I believe that's a form of idolatry. Let's get to Alan from Virginia. Alan, welcome.
You're on the air. Hi, can you hear me? Hi, I hear you, buddy.
I hear you, buddy. Question, I don't know, when I asked or when I give the question, do you see it or do you need me to repeat it for you? Well, the producer writes down a little bit of what you're going to say. So it says, is the book of Revelation a good place to start reading the Bible? Okay, I think that's what it is.
Is that your question? Okay, uh, kind of, there's a little bit of stipulation. Uh, I know I'm already, it's more so, is it a good book to start reading for a foundation, I guess, if you already know you're saved. Well, if you already know you're saved, well, then it depends, you know, you're saved, but do you know what the Trinity is, who Jesus is, justification, amputation, propitiation, uh, you know, these things, those were, would be found in Galatians and the book of Romans.
But if you want a foundation based eschatologically to return to Christ, then you might want to go to Thessalonians or Matthew 24 or Luke 17 or the book of Revelation. Just depends on what your goal is and stuff like that. Okay. What, what, what, what, one of my main goals is I guess kind of view things in general is I like to view, um, things I do. I like to understand the boundaries of something and then kind of start to think and then kind of fill in the middle.
And so my kind of idea with, I do the same with religiously, like with Genesis and Revelations would be important to me. And then I would want to start filling in the middle. Is that kind of not a good strategy? No, it depends. People learn differently. I'm a Gestalt learner, which means I study a lot of stuff and then all of a sudden it all clicks in one place. There are other people, what they do is they study one point at a time. They put things sequentially.
Other people just don't really learn and then they run for office. Um, but so it's just different, you know, it's okay. It's just depends, you know, so I do recommend, this is my experience. I do recommend that you get a good theological basis, like with the Trinity is who Jesus is, his nature's, what the work is. And once you get those down, then when you're reading other stuff, you go, Oh, I see why that's there. It's because of this. Then it starts making sense.
You see the interconnectedness of the theological perspectives. That makes sense. That's just me, but it doesn't mean it's the right way. You know, it's just my way. That's all.
And yours is different. Yep. It's okay. All right.
Uh, I think that's it. Uh, all right. Thank you very much. All right, man. God bless. All right. Let's get over to Daphne Daphne.
Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, um, Matt, how you doing? I'm doing all right.
How are you doing? All right. I was just calling me in just to, uh, comment on what she was talking about earlier about the, about race and I get, I get sick and tired of it too. You know, I'm a, I'm, I'm black. Happen to be black, you know, but I'm a follower of Jesus Christ and you know, I get the race thing too. And I just want to let you know that I told you see what you say. So it doesn't make no sense that we have to get caught up in color. When like I said, God created one race and that's the human race.
And I just feel like we all should be able to, you know, get along without getting caught up in skin color. I'm just listening. You're just ministering to my heart. It was seriously, it's like your words, you're saying it.
I'm just, my blood pressure is going down. It's just such a pleasure to hear you say that. You know, I just love that. Yeah. So I just want to let you know, you know, I know I'm a black person, but you know, I don't, I don't look up at people at that income. You know, I just look at them as people, you know, just like me. You know, we all human. Amen. Yep. I've been training myself more and more to look at people as, uh, those who withhold, who hold souls within them, the souls that God's created.
Are they saved or not saved? That's how I view people more and more. I'm so glad you called up Daphne.
There's the music. We got to go, but I am so glad. Thank you so much. May God bless you. Wish we were neighbors. Okay. God bless. Bye. Hey folks, we're out of here. Talk to you tomorrow. Another program powered by the truth network.
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