Matt Slick Live

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Welcome to Matt Slick Live. If you want to give me a call, all you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you.

Give me a call. And let's see, sometimes on Fridays we do hate mail. Maybe we'll get to some of that, some Q&A. Tonight in, let's see, two hours, we're going to be having a debate-slash-discussion. It's not going to be a formal debate. It's going to be a discussion, kind of a back and forth for a couple of hours On the Trinity, the Unitarians are raising their ugly heads and they're trying to attack the personal work of Christ. So we'll be working on that. And then we'll get information on the calendar. I think Laura's going to put that there. So if you go to the CARM website at the bottom, the footer that you'll see in the middle column, you'll see calendar of events. And you can go there, and she'll put it up there in a little bit.

And you get the information of where it is. All right. Boy, that was quick.

That was easy. Hey, why don't we just go on the calls? Let's get to Juanita from Michigan. Juanita, welcome. You're on the air. Well, thank you, Matt.

Thank you very much. I'm not a Trinitarian, and I came across a paper by you titled The Jesus of Two Natures, God and Man, dated 2008. And you offer several scriptures as proof of Jesus as God's nature because he is worshiped. And my question is, have you come to the knowledge of the truth about these worship scriptures since 2008, or do you still hold to the belief that Jesus was worshiped? Oh, he was worshiped.

Matthew 2, 2, 2, 11, 14, 33, 28, 9, John 9, 35 to 38, he was 1, 6. Are you a Jehovah's Witness? No, I'm not. No. So, may I have a moment just to maybe bring some light onto this subject?

One thing at a time, sure. Okay. Proskuneo. Proskuneo. Yeah, I'm not really good on my Greek pronunciation, but there are several words for worship, and one of them is proskuneo. But there's another one, more important one, called phebomai. And one is an action, and one is an attitude, and the proskuneo is used, it's misinterpreted as worship many times.

You can look those up. Hold on, hold on, hold on. So, what you're trying to do is just teach, okay? So, you're not teaching the truth, okay?

You're not. So, let me ask you some questions. You say Jesus is not God in flesh, right?

Excuse me? You say that Jesus is not God in flesh, right? God did not become a man, his word became flesh. Okay, why does God the Father call Jesus God in Hebrews 1-8? When he says, But of the Son, he says, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever.

Why do you call him God? Do you really, this might not be the place to get into a conversation about Hebrews 8, which I'm, would you want to? Sure. Okay, you won't cut me off, or you won't put me on mute, or anything, right?

No, I mean, if you're rude, look, look, look, if you're rude, yeah, but I mean, if you just want to go on for five minutes, I'm not going to let you do that, we're going to have interaction. No. Tell me about Hebrews 1-8. Why does it, when God says, Of the Son, your throne, O God, is forever and ever, why does it mean he's not God? So Hebrews 1-8 is a quote from Psalm.

45-6. And if you, pardon? In Psalm 45, verse 6, yes.

Right, right. And if you, Hebrews 1-8 takes a little bit of conversation, so if you look at what they're saying in Hebrews 1, in Psalm, what it's really basically saying is it's a song of praise, describing the splendor and sovereignty of the King Messiah, and one thing we have to just keep in mind. So hold on, so if that's the case, you're saying Psalm 45 is about the Messiah?

Is that what you're saying? It's a song of praise, yes, describing the splendor and sovereignty of the King Messiah. Then it says in that Psalm, your throne, O God, is forever and ever. Who's the God that they're speaking of there? If you look at what the real translation, it says your throne is from God.

It is forever and ever. No, it's not what it says. What Bible do you want to use? I've had Hebrew and Greek in seminary and stuff, and I have tools in front of me, and I've gone over this verse a thousand times. So what Bible translation are you getting this from? That actually comes from the Tanakh.

Oh, okay. So you're not getting it from the Scriptures, right? Well, I'm getting it from the Hebrew Scriptures, the Tanakh. Okay, so what does it say in Hebrew in Psalm 45, verse 6? It says your throne is from God. It is forever and ever. No, it doesn't say that. No, it does not say that. Okay, your throne, I'm looking at it.

Then we will rise to something else because... Well, hold on, hold on. I'm looking at it in the Hebrew. I'm looking at the Hebrew right now. Okay?

Takisa Elohim olam waled. That's what it says. Your throne, oh God, is forever and ever. Literally, it's your throne, God, forever and ever. That's what's going on. That's what it says.

There's nothing else in there. Okay? See, if your position is right, you shouldn't have to alter the word of God to make it fit, now should you? No, absolutely not.

Okay, so then what it says in the Hebrew is your throne, oh God, is forever and ever. But may I mention something without being interrupted? Sure. No, I don't know. Okay, there are many translations. There are many perversions.

It depends on where you go. Well, let's see. The NASB says your throne, oh God, as is the ESV, the King James, the New King James. Your divine throne endures forever and ever, RSV. LEB says your throne, oh God, NIV. LXX, that's the Septuagint, the throne of you, the God, into the age of ages.

So the Septuagint is, right? May I say something real quick? Yeah. We've diverted, you've kind of diverted us from the subject. We were talking about worship, and you kind of interrupted me when I was asking. Well, it is my show.

It is my show, so I can do that. And like I say, if you want to quit talking, then I can certainly hang up. But I wanted to mention the other word for worship, which was sebumai. And that is a true word for worship, and it's only used in relation to God. It's never used in relation to Jesus.

One is an action, pro sineo, and one is an attitude of devout religious worship. And this word, like when Lydia, the seller of purple, was a worshiper of God. This word, sebumai, for worship is only used for God, never for Jesus. And it's a deception when you say that pro sineo is worship.

And that's all I have to say about that. Jesus said in Matthew 4.10, go Satan, for it is written, you shall worship the Lord your God and serve him only. That word is pro sineo. Jesus used the word pro sineo. I'm not saying what I'm saying.

But hold on, hold on, hold on. He was quoting Deuteronomy 6.13. And so that means worship. So why is Jesus using the same word of worship that he receives, the same word? What I said was that the pro sineo, that word is used for God, it's used for Jesus, it's used for men.

When Cornelius met Peter. But what I'm saying is that sebumai, the real word for worship, is only used for God, never for Jesus. To serve him only. So you think because of that. Okay, so I've heard this argument before, all right? So you denied Jesus as God in flesh.

That's what you do. He's called God. Jesus is the word of God in the flesh. See, please, Scripture never says that God became a man. It says that the word became flesh. Yes, and the word was God. The word was God and the word became flesh. So was the word God? The word, it's God's word.

No, it didn't say that. It said God's word. It says the word was God. So do you agree that the word was God? The word was, I could probably say that the word was God. You probably could?

Let's see, in the Greek. Well, let me ask you this. No, no, no, no, please hold on, hold on.

As soon as you start getting pressed, you want to just go someplace else. No, I can't understand this. Does it or does it not say the word was God?

I just wonder if you even can read it. No, you know Greek. You know Greek.

Please, you know Greek. So help me understand this. Whenever I would go to look at Bible translations, I would always go to John 1-1, always. And it never, it always says the same. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and God with the word. No, that's not what it is. That's not what it is.

That's not what it is. And the word was God, I'm sorry. That's right. There you go. But this one time I picked up, now use your Greek here for me. This one time I picked up an interlinear Bible and I went to John 1-1 like I always do.

And it said in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and God was the word. Are you muting me? No.

Huh? No, I'm muting you. Are you muting me? I said no. I'm listening to you.

Okay. I'm looking at the Greek. And so when the interlinear said God was the word, why did it not say the word was God? Now, I'm not a Greek scholar.

First of all, let me ask, let me tell you something. I don't know what you were looking at. You could have been looking at the cult Jehovah's Witness work. I don't know. It was Thunderfelt's interlinear Bible.

I have it right here. What is it? The what? It's the Zondervan parallel New Testament in Greek and English. Okay.

Now, how about this? What I'm going to do is read you the Greek. I'm going to read it to you.

That last segment, okay? And the word theos is God. Literally, in order, it says, and the word was God. That's what it literally says in the Greek.

I'm reading it to you. So, if I understand it correctly, what you're saying is that it's a predicate nominative. You can say that God is light, but can we say that light is God? So, look, you're changing it.

So, look, you're changing it. The Bible says, and the word was God. So, do you agree that the word was God? I think God was the word. Can we change it?

I didn't ask that. I asked, do you agree that the word was God? That's what it says. That's the literal Greek, okay?

That's what it says. Do you agree that the word was God? The word was the word of God. It doesn't say the word was the word of God. You have to keep changing God's word to make it fit what you want. It says, and we've got to break, so I want you to hold on. We'll continue after the break. But it literally says, and the word was God.

That's and the word was God. I'm going to ask you after the break here. We've got to go. But if you believe what it actually says, we'll be right back. Hey, folks, hope you want to stay tuned.

It's good and interesting. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show, Juanita. Are you still there? I am. Okay.

So to continue, do you agree that the text says, and the word was God? May I say something first? I'd like to get back to my question. You have me off in Hebrews and John, and I called in to ask a question about worship, and I'd kind of like to finish that conversation first. Sure.

Let's finish it, because I can help you out. The word proskeneo is used of men and of angels and of Jesus. So, yeah, I get it. And God. And God.

And stuff like that. That's right. So it's not an exact proof, but it is something that's interesting, because proskeneo is also used of, like Peter, and he says, don't bow down before me. But Jesus receives the bowing.

Yeah, Peter and Cornelius. Jesus receives it. So do you do the same thing that they do? Do you bow down to Jesus? It's an action of respect. I just asked, do you bow down before him?

Do you get on your knees before Jesus, like they did? May I finish asking the question? Sure.

Go ahead. Now, we have the word sebumai that is used, like, for example, in Acts 16, 14. Lydia, the seller of purple. That word sebumai is used for the Almighty God.

Well, let me rephrase that. It's used for deity, because one time it's used in relation to the goddess Diana. So it is used for deity.

In one instance, Diana. But other than that, it's used for God, for deity. It is never, ever, ever, did I say ever, used in relation to Jesus. Jesus is not deity.

Sebumai, the word for worship. Well, hold on. Hold on. Okay. I get you. Okay.

You say it's never used of Jesus, right? That's what you say, right? Right. The word occurs 10 times, okay?

Worshipers, God-fearing. Five times. Okay. So, what you've done is you have taken a word that doesn't appear in Jesus, and you said because of that alone, he's not God, right?

No, no, no. I'm just saying. All I'm saying right there is that Jesus was never worshiped, just God is worshiped. We're only talking about worship. If we want to talk about Jesus as God, or go on to all these other things, Hebrews and John, and Philippians and all those, I'd love to.

Let's do it right now. Good. But can we just agree that Jesus is never worshiped the way that God is worshiped? No, I don't agree with that. I will agree the word Sebumai is not used of Christ, okay?

Okay. But it does say. And it is only used of deity.

If it does, what's that? It is only used of deity. I would agree.

It's used of deity. Okay. Yeah. Great.

We can move on. No problem. All right? Okay. Okay. All right. Now, if we can find a verse that says that Jesus is God, would you believe it?

I certainly would. Good. Hebrews 1, 8. But of the Son, he says, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever. That's what it says. It's a quote from Psalm 45, verse 6, which says, Thy throne, O God.

O God is an evocative. So that's what it means. That's what it says.

Do you agree? The word O doesn't appear. It's the vocative.

I mean, it's there for us. The vocative. In Greek, the nominative and the vocative. The vocative. You don't know Greek. You know, no, I know just enough to be dangerous, you could say.

Yeah, that's exactly correct. But I know I don't hear it. Can you hold on a sec? Can you hold on a sec?

Yeah. Now, it says, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. That's what the reference is to Jesus. Do you believe that Jesus has called God there by God the Father? No, actually, that's a quote, and the writer of Hebrews is not, and it doesn't say he says.

Go to it and see. It doesn't, it says, Of the angels, he says. Ma'am, ma'am, I know this.

But when you get to the verse about hate. I know this. Okay, then it doesn't say he says. God didn't say it. I know this.

Yes, it does. Okay? Now, while you don't know what you're talking about, hold on.

Go to the Greek. Hold on, hold on. I am. Okay. You go to verse five. To which of the angels did he ever say? It's apen. He says.

Right. And that's, the word say is there. For which of the angels did he ever say, You are my son, today I have begotten you? And again, I'll be a father to him and he shall be a son. And when he again brings the firstborn of the world, he says, right? There it is. Legi. Go to the Greek.

He says there's not a fear there. I'm looking at the Greek. I'm looking at the Greek. I'm looking at the Greek.

There you are. I'm looking at the Greek. I'm looking at the Greek.

It's legi, lambda, epsilon, gamma, epsilon, iota. I'm looking at it. That's what it says. I'm looking at it too, Matt. Look, I'm looking at the Greek. Okay?

I'm looking at it too. In fact, you're looking at Hebrews 1.6? We have a problem here.

Yes, we do. Wait a second. I asked you a question. Are you looking at Hebrews 1.6? Let me go.

I wasn't prepared for this, but I can certainly go. You said you were looking at it. You said you were looking at it. Well, I'm looking at it on my paper.

On your paper. Ah. So I have in my hand. Hold on. Right here. Right here.

This is right here. In my hand. Okay, pages.

Okay. The Greek-English New Testament. And it has the Nestle-Allen Greek New Testament apparatus in it, which shows textual variants. I'm looking at Hebrews 1.6. I can look at the Greek. I'm looking at what it says right there. Look at verse 8. Look at verse 8.

Would you? Look, you are so difficult. You don't want to submit to God's Word. You want to say, I'm trying to show you. I'm trying to show you what's going on, and you don't even want it. You don't want it. You don't want Christ. You want to submit him. Would you? Excuse me.

You need to be careful here. Okay. When he again brings the firstborn of the world, he says. That's the Father speaking. And let all the angels of God worship him. The Word is proskeneo.

Okay. So God is telling him. Telling everybody to worship him. Which is from Psalm 99 verse 7. Which is worship and adoration.

Now. And of the angels, he says. And there's the word legae again.

Who makes his angels wind and his ministers the flame of fire. But of the sun, the word legae isn't there. Right.

It's a continuation of the previous thought. But of the sun. But it doesn't say he says.

But of the sun. Excuse me. Excuse me. I got that. I'm telling you.

Legae isn't there in the Greek. I just said it. Okay.

And that's what I thought. Why don't you listen? I'm going to ask you some difficult questions here. I haven't even got you to the difficult stuff yet. But of the sun. But of the sun what? But of the sun what? But of the sun.

Is he speaking? Thy throne. Oh God is forever and ever. But of the sun. Is God speaking of the sun there?

Well the word is doesn't appear either. Is he speaking of the sun there? Who's the quote in reference to your throne of God is forever and ever?

Who's it in reference to? The writer of Hebrews is saying this. God is not saying this. Oh okay. Oh I get it.

So okay. Who's the writer of Hebrews saying it to? But unto the sun. Thy throne. So he's just getting through saying, talking about the angels.

Okay. And then he says but unto the sun. Thy throne. Oh God is forever and ever. That's right. You said that the writer of Hebrews says that.

I'm glad you admit that's what the scriptures teach. Okay let it break. Hold on. We'll be right back after these messages.

You know what they say, so much heresy is a little time. I enjoy these kind of conversations. We'll be right back after these messages. Everybody welcome back to the show, let's see if Juanita is still there, are you?

I'm still fucking here over here. Okay. So do you admit that the writer of Hebrews is addressing the sun? He's addressing God's throne is the way that I kind of got a feeling about it. They're talking about the throne of God.

It doesn't say that. It says your throne, oh God, is forever and ever. Right, they're talking about the throne of God. Who's the writer addressing that to? Who's the writer addressing the statement to? Your throne, oh God, is forever and ever.

To God. No, it says but of the sun. They're saying the throne, but of the sun. But of the sun, that's why the implication is the verbal form of he is, is in there.

Because it's what's going on previously. God says in verse five. God says in verse six. God says in verse seven.

And then of the sun, your throne, oh God, is forever and ever. And then in verse eight, he doesn't say. In verse eight. He says it out of there.

In eight, he doesn't say. So who's it being addressed to? Who is it being addressed to? Who is the statement your throne, oh God, is forever and ever?

Who's it being addressed to? God the father? The son?

Bob down the street? Oh, so, but of the son, the son says, hey, is it the son speaking? No. Then who's speaking? The writer of Hebrews. So the writer of Hebrews is speaking of God the father, right? The writer of Hebrews is saying what was said to the son, that the throne of God is forever and ever. Oh, oh, so what you're saying is what was said to the son is that it was said to the son that your throne, oh God, is forever and ever.

That's what you just said. So that's what was said to the son? Your throne, oh God? So your throne, oh God, is said to the son that's calling him God. You just said that. The throne of thy God is forever and ever. Now, you know what?

Why do you keep changing God's word? This is not fruitful. Yes, it is.

This is not fruitful. Yes, it is. No, it's not. Yes, it is. Why do you keep changing God's word to make it fit what you want? I'm not.

Yes, you are. Let's go on to something that's a little less confrontational. I don't think we're going to agree on this and we're wasting our breath. Well, that's right, because I believe the word and you don't. That's why we're not going to agree. No.

I'll give you one more chance. That accusation. You don't believe God's word? That accusation to somebody else. You don't believe God's word.

And I took it. You are being insulting. I don't care. You are not a Christian. You are an antichrist and you are teaching false doctrine and you and all who believe like you are going to go to hell. You need to repent of this. Don't be telling me this stuff.

It is not your place to come where I avoid that. I can prove from scripture. You do not know my heart. I can prove Jesus. That is so wrong of you to say those things. Ma'am, you are denying who Christ is. You are the spirit of the antichrist. May I say something back to you? Sure.

Say what you want. You are doing the work of Satan. Okay. So look, can I prove to you that Jesus is God in flesh from scripture? I'll prove it. Where does it say that, does it not say that the word became flesh and dwelt among us?

Yes, the word was God. Wait, wait, wait. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. Look, so I just hung up on her because I could see instantly what's happening. She doesn't care. She's just going to go on and on and on. And I don't want to get into an argumentative thing because I could just tell right away that it's a thousand times. It's just going to elevate. We've already gone to John 1-1. I had to fight her just to get her to believe what it says, and then she wants to go back to it to argue about it. I just got, I don't want to do it.

Callers are waiting. We're going to move along. I can prove to her, but she's not interested in it. She is the spirit of the antichrist, folks. And what's really interesting is this kind of a thing is on the rise. And it's really interesting to me.

I've really seen a lot of this on the rise lately. Let's get to David from Texas. Sorry, you've been waiting a half hour, buddy. Sorry about that. What do you got, man?

Well, Matt, it's an honor to talk with you. I wanted to find out some more history and facts pertaining to the tetradramaton, the YHWH, that a lot of people like that, the vows to it, and say Yahweh or Jehovah. But before we do that, how many surviving, I guess, scribe texts that the Old Testament can be translated off of? How many of those do exist? I don't know because I don't study that. I don't know how many. Which one do they use?

Is it that one in London, the Setuites? I'm telling you, I don't study this stuff particularly, the issue of historicity and which manuscript tree is used where or which one or what. I just don't have answers for that. I don't study it. Okay. We'll move on.

No problem. The tetradramaton, as far as I know, and it's not that I know the facts about it, but it's in the Old Testament like a couple thousand times in that the word was so sacred that they never wrote the word. They never wrote the vows down with it. Who in the early Israelites might have had the full name of, I guess, God the Father? The High Priest?

It was such a sacred name from what I know. In Exodus 6, 2, and 3, God spoke for the Moses, said to him, I am Yahweh. And he says, And I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name I did not make myself known to them. The first one he revealed his name to was Moses, and then when Moses wrote the Pentateuch, he put in Yahweh in different places. But it wasn't officially chronologically revealed until the time of Moses. Okay. But you say you don't study the actual Hebrew letters?

No, I didn't say that. I don't study the issue of which manuscript tree. I don't study, it's called historicity, which tree.

Tree means like the Alexandrinus, for example. It's a certain Greek manuscript or a Sinaiticus. Then you have what's called the Masoretic text, which in Hebrew. Then you have the Dead Sea Scrolls and there are varying things.

Then you have the Septuagint. So there are varying kinds of copies. I don't study those, I don't make a study of the copies, of the physical copies. I just don't, haven't had to. Okay.

Oh, okay. The Tetragrammaton, you don't know when the valves were removed? I think that that's a pretty sacred name. It's not like God with a little G or with a big G. It's a very sacred symbol?

Yes, it's a sacred name. From what I understand, they never included the vowels in the original writings. And they understood what the words were because people would pronounce them all the time. And they just didn't have vowels in them. And then later on, the vowel points were added for pronunciation. But the scholars knew what the words were. They also would write them without breaks between words. Sure, I think Charlemagne is the one who broke the actual words.

I don't believe that's accurate. No, the Hebrews were doing this, not Charlemagne. So probably the reason they did this like this was because they didn't need to have the vowels in there because they knew what the words were. The scholars and the scribes and the people who were trained in that would study the original writing. And they didn't need to have the vowels.

They understood what it was. And probably the reason there was no gaps between words was because they're saving space on scrolls for effectiveness and cost-effectiveness. So I've understood that this is the case with very early scrolls, and some of the later scrolls would have gaps between them in the words. The issue that I have with the Tetragrammaton, including the vowels, when we don't know the vowels. I mean, you agree on that? We don't know the actual vowels when people say, Yes and no, because the Hebrews, the Jews, have transmitted their language down through the centuries.

How to pronounce, how to do things. They did that. I think it was from the Watchtower. The Watchtower is a cult. The Watchtower Bible Tract Society is a non-Christian cult. They have a little thing on the name of God the Father, and I thought that it said that the vowels were lost before the Babylonian captivity. No one knows what the true pronunciation of God's name is.

The Jehovah's Witness Watchtower Bible Tract Society organization is a non-Christian cult. Exactly, and the scary thing for me is, if you don't know the vowels, It's not a scary thing to not know the vowels. It's not a scary thing. Hold on, we've got to break. Man, as someone said, the day is 616.

Wow. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Interesting Friday. David from Texas, are you still there?

Hi, I'm still here. All right. I talked to a, oh, she's probably a 40-year-old Jewish lady one time, and she was pretty devout, and she told me that we don't know the vowels, and it's crazy for anybody to put the vowels in there, because they could create, you know, the name of Satan or the secret name of Lucifer. Do you not agree with that?

No, that's just paranoia. The reason that the Jews, you know, they didn't want to misuse God's name so they wouldn't pronounce it, and so some think that the actual name was lost because of this. So it really doesn't matter. There's a cult called the Sacred Name Cult, and you have to pronounce God's name properly, and if you don't pronounce it right, then you're just on your way to hell. So, you know, I speak enough Spanish to get around, right? So if I'm talking to Carlos, okay, you roll the R. Carlos, un amigo de mi, okay, he's a friend of mine. All right, but if I say Carlos, I'm not rolling the R. I guess I'm not talking to him, am I?

It's not really talking about him, right? It wouldn't make any sense at all. Well, the God, G-O-D, with a big G or with a small g means totally opposite things. No, no, no, no, you're not hearing me. It's not an issue of big G, little g in the Hebrew. It doesn't work like that. They're just letters.

That's all it is. Okay, we have uncios and minuscules in Greek, but not in the Hebrew. So, look, I'm trying to tell you that I have a friend in South America. His name's Carlos. Now, when I say it in English, it's Carlos. In Espanol, they say Carlos. Okay, so that's how I would say it in Spanish, all right? So that's with an R. So his real name is Carlos. Okay, so if I say, hey, Carlos, man, how you doing, buddy? Have I not represented him properly? I'm addressing him. Well, if we're talking about the name of God the Father, it's much more sacred. Okay, hold on a second.

Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave. I've told you the same thing. You're just ignoring it, all right?

You're just ignoring what I'm telling you. Do you think we have to pronounce God's name perfectly? Let me ask, is that a requirement? If we don't know it, we sure don't add vowels to it. Okay, so we don't know, we shouldn't add vowels to it. Got you, so we shouldn't add vowels to it. Now what?

Now, what's the point? Now, the point is, if you do that and you don't know what the vowels really are, you could break it in the secret name of the Savior of Lucifer. I got you.

Give me that stuff. Now, it could be saying Lucifer's name. It's stupid. Sorry, I shouldn't say that, but it is, okay? Sorry. Look, I get frustrated when people don't listen, and I'm sorry, but they're being illogical, and you're there. You're not being illogical, okay? It's not like if we can mispronounce his name, now we're talking to Satan. It really means we're talking to Satan.

No, it's not. See, my name in English is Matthew, and in Spanish it's Mateo, and in Greek it's Matthias. So which is the right name?

Well, I'm sorry, but you said Matthias, so that means, like in Ugaritic, it means child of a frog. Who knows? Is that what I'm really saying then?

You're going way too far with this. When people say, well, I'm not saying Satan's name, how do you know? Because his name is Satan, not Yahweh. There's a T in there, a tau, the T sound. It's not there. Just because you put vowels in there doesn't mean you're saying some other, you know, if you don't have the right vowels, it means suddenly you're saying the devil's name.

Where are people getting off on this? If you don't know the vowels, don't put them in. That's why I've been here. That's what you said. Let's move on to one other question I had. I got you.

I got you. But your logic is faulty. If you put vowels in, it doesn't mean you're saying Satan's name. Any more than Mateo in Spanish is my name. In English, it's Matthew.

Which one is the correct one? It doesn't mean if I don't pronounce it perfectly, it doesn't mean that you're not addressing me. Okay?

Yeah, but we're talking about the name of God, the Father. I can't help it. I got to move on.

Where's a wall to bang my head in? Dave from Kansas City, 45 minutes. He's been waiting. I know. I've been listening to the most illogic I've ever heard in my life. Hey, by the way, I witnessed to many Jews in my life, and the one thing they couldn't get over was Zechariah 11, where he said, take that magnificent price you value to eat at, at 30 pieces of silver. Jehovah, God, oh, oh. They could not get past that.

He's saying Jesus is not God. God said, you valued me at 30 pieces of silver. Take that to throw it to the potters. That's what they did.

Yeah, I'll look into that. I like that. Thank you, Zechariah 11. Good. Yeah, well, yeah. They pierced his hands and feet and everything else.

Yeah, I mean, you can go through. Witnessing the Jews for 40 years has taught me a lot about that. But my question specifically, yeah, those guys are nuts, but specifically is that, you know, I love James White. I love Doug Wilson, but I just disagree with their theonomy and their post-trivulation. Post-mill, I mean, post-mill. I'm with you. I don't agree with post-mill.

I don't see it at all. But anyway, those are good guys. Yeah, what I was saying, it turns on me on this one phrase, and maybe I'm nuts, redeem the times because the days are evil. But if God was reigning now, wouldn't the times be, we would be redeeming the days because the times are evil? Well, that's a toughie, you see, because Jesus said that the binding of Satan occurred in Matthew 12, 22 to 32. In Matthew 13, he says people are taken out of his kingdom in Matthew 13, 30 through 44. And Jesus is the king, so the implication is that he's king right now and then the kingdom is here, which I think is eschatologically super, super significant. I think it needs to be taught in all churches, and I've been taking a little jaunt in here.

Why? Because every Christian believed that we're in the kingdom of God right now and he's our king. It would embolden them to go out in the world and live like it.

Okay, I get that. But as far as bringing the kingdom as far as the rule and reign, you know, as the millennial kingdom, they wouldn't believe in the millennial kingdom. They would believe that Jesus is going to rule theomically on the earth. Yes, theomically.

Right, and I'm not an expert in theonomy or post-millennialism. And I have a friend, Eli, I don't know if he's listening still because he was on a little bit and he's post-mill, and if it wasn't for that, he'd be perfect, okay? But we've had discussions. So if he's listening, he'll smile. But he's a good guy.

But I don't get it because I teach depressed catology. It's going to get bad. Yeah, I know. And you've convinced me, so thank you very much.

I don't know if I should say you're welcome or not because it's getting bad. But I hear you. You know what?

I asked him, and he said he was going to study it, but this age and the age to come, from what I understand, I think that really puts a stop to the pre-mill and post-mill. That's just my opinion. I probably got a lot of people mad. No, it doesn't. And as far as the depressed catology thing, that just presses me on to be more holy and realize that saints throughout the generations have been persecuted, and even today in countries that are persecuted, we need to put on the form of God immediately to get ready for that.

So it's not depressed catology, it's prepared discolored. Okay, now look, I've got to ask you something here, okay? Because you said you did a lot of work with the Jews. You've been witnessing to them for how many years?

Yeah. How many? Forty. I worked for Jews for 40 years. You worked what?

What was that? I worked with Jews for 40 years then. But have you done a lot of study about Judaism and how to witness to them and things like that?

Oh yeah, absolutely. And they were at 9-11 and they were Jews from New York and they got in that 9-11 stuff and I convinced them, and the whole way home they said, you know, that guy's right. Well tell you what, you should contact us because we're looking for people to increase the writings in the issue of Judaism. And like that little thing you did right there out of Zechariah 11, it's like, oh yeah, that's right. And also Zechariah 12-10. Well Psalm 22. Yeah, and Psalm 22. Yeah, Isaiah 53. There's all kinds of good stuff.

Yeah, you can nail it. And you know what they said? They were in that brownout in 1990, or no, 2004, and they said the whole way back they were just saying that Rocky is right. But what happened was they get to the point where they know we're right, they know they're wrong, but they say, well, how do we know we exist? Or they leave reality.

Just slap them upside the head. Do you feel that? Yeah, you exist. Well, I know.

It's that veil that Paul said exists on their eyes. That's right. That's right. Absolutely.

A lot of it's there. Okay. Okay, Ben. I know. But it's the same thing witnessing to that one that's been to Kostel's, they just don't get it. The veil is on David's eye or that Bob the butler or whatever name that other girl tonight, they just are in the same, that same veil is on their eyes. And you could tell, like with that woman, she's just argumentative.

Oh, yeah. Oh, it's a spiritual thing at that point. It's not a logical, you can't argue it. You can't even rationalize it. It's a spiritual battle. Right, it is a spiritual battle. And what I'll do is I'll bring them to a certain place.

I want people to see how irrational they're being and how they reinterpret God's word to make it fit. They do it all the time. Oh. Yeah, that's right. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. All right. All right. Thank you. Got to go.

I got one more caller. Okay, buddy. All right, man. God bless. All right. Let's get to anonymous from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Welcome. You're on the air. We've got about two minutes.

Are you there? Anonymous. Anonymous. You're on the air. I'm trying this different ways. Let's see.

What is it? Something about, look at the note. How to deal with those who don't want to believe the word. Well, what you do is you tell them the truth anyway. The word of God will not come back empty without accomplishing what he desires.

Isaiah 55, 11. The word of God is powerful, and it's going to accomplish what God desires. Our job is to speak the word and speak the truth. Do the best you can, reason with them. But if you have people who just refuse to believe God's word or alter God's word constantly in order to make it fit their theology, well, that's between them and God, and they'll face judgment for that.

But what you can do is simply read that word, speak that word, let the word of God dwell in you and in them in truth. That's what you need to do. All right. All right. We've got about 30 seconds left in the show.

Wow. So tonight, let's see if it's on because I'll be in, let's see. Scroll to the bottom right there. Calendar of events. And if you go to Carne better or bottom, yeah, there we go.

Bottom of the page, of any page, it'll say calendar of events in the blue footer at the bottom. And you can go and you can see I'll be debating the Trinity tonight. It's not a formal debate. It's a discussion debate. And that's it.

Me versus Sean Griffin. I haven't even studied anything from this guy yet. Oh, I got so much to do. Hey, it'll be interesting. May the Lord bless you. Have a great weekend, everybody, and we'll talk to you, Lord willing, on Monday. God bless. Bye. Bye.