The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live.
Mac is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at com.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.
Everybody welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. If you're listening to Matt Slick Live, if you want, you can give me a call. All you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call.
We have five open lines. All right now. Okay. So I got to let you know that the PayPal thing, uh, you know, we, we have PayPal on calm, we're going to be getting ready to PayPal here pretty quickly. We're in the process of, of both of the change and, um, I know a lot of people don't want to support PayPal and I agree.
We don't want to support them and we are going to be moving. Uh, we, uh, I put in all the paperwork, done all the stuff necessary that I'm, I think I'm caught up and, uh, we'll be off. Now tonight also, um, yeah, I'm in the stack.
I'm in the stack. Uh, there we go. Test. Let's see. Should be working.
Everything should be fine. So, uh, tonight at in two hours from now, that'll be 8 PM Eastern time. I'm going to be hosting a conference, a seminar with, uh, Vern Poitras, uh, Brent Bosserman, Eli Ayala and myself. We're going to be discussing the doctrine of the Trinity and how it explains everything.
We're going to be going through a lot of stuff in depth. So we sent out an email a while back and a lot of people clicked on the email link to check it out, but not that many signed up. What we think is because of the PayPal issue, we set something up today and Luke Wayne and I worked on it and hopefully it'll work. So what I'm, uh, what I'm saying is that if you want to sign up, uh, it costs $10, you want to sign up and be able to watch, maybe ask questions.
We don't know if we'll get to everybody's questions. We do have a lot of signups though. Uh, you can just go to patreon.com forward slash, uh, calm org, C-A-R-M-O-R-G. So patreon, calm org, and there should be an option there to sign up, uh, for the seminar, $10 and then it should work. So just letting you know that we haven't tested it yet, but it looks like everything is fine and everything's in place.
So, uh, you have options or to check it out and it does not go into PayPal. You have your ability to set up whatever you want. You can set up a recurring thing.
That's how it is set up and you can stop it anytime. But our plan is to do one of these seminars each month and have some experts come in on varying topics. Uh, we're going to be enjoying it. I will be enjoying it. It's going to be a lot of fun. So, uh, that's where it is and I put the information out on Facebook, uh, calm, Facebook and calm on Twitter.
So, uh, uh, I think, uh, I think, um, Luke is going to be sending out an email about it to, uh, thousands of people. You know, we're just scrambling here. We, it's good, it's a good scramble though. You know, like in football, you know, you get scrambled, get it done. And so, uh, plans change and, uh, we modify and, and things.
And it took a few hours to get everything set up. We worked on that and just now did before, uh, before the radio show. So there you go. All right. If you want to give me a call, uh, five or four open lines, 877-207-2276.
All right. Let's get on the air with, uh, Elijah from Pennsylvania. Elijah, welcome.
You are on the air. Hey, Matt, uh, I have a interesting topic to, uh, talk to you about today. Uh, so have you, have you ever heard of this, uh, objection that one is people like to bring up, uh, I've heard one of them say that first John two, one in the Greek or for advocate, it's, uh, called Jesus, the paraclete on. And they say that in the early church fathers, early church fathers, early church fathers always called the Holy Spirit, the paraclete. So I guess their argument is that, uh, a scripture like identifying Jesus as the Holy Spirit, but, uh, when I, you know, dig in a little deeper, uh, I realized that they really don't know what they're talking about.
And, and I actually had my own explanation to give them if they would ever ask me this question, but, uh, but, uh, uh, how would you respond to the subject? Well, um, words mean what they mean in context. And different words or the same word can be used of different individuals. I'm a man.
You're a man. My friend is a man and doesn't mean we're all the same man. So words mean what they mean in context. And the word there in first John two, one is paraclete on.
So it does come from paraclete, which is, uh, used in John 14, 16 and 14, 26 and 15, 26, and the helper of the Holy Spirit, the paraclete. So both the father and the, oh, excuse me, uh, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are called the helper, the advocate. So that doesn't mean that they're the same person because they have differences of attributes and stuff. So, uh, that argument is a very, very weak argument just because the same word is used of different, doesn't mean that they are the same person.
That's all simple logic. Yeah. And, uh, also, uh, uh, what, what I would say to them is that I'm looking at strong lexicon on Bible hub and for advocates, uh, it says, uh, intercessor, uh, consoler, comforter, helper, and then when you go to, uh, John 14, 16, uh, Jesus said here, he will send another, uh, advocate and, uh, another, uh, in the Greek is, uh, uh, Alan, which means, uh, another more than two difference. And then, and then for advocates, it's the same word that uses Jesus at first John 21 versus intercessor, uh, comforter, helper. So I think Jesus is making a distinction saying that he, he's an advocate and a helper and, and also the Holy Spirit is an advocate and a helper and intercessor, intercessor, just like he is. Well, he's a helper and an advocate.
Yes. Um, and so, uh, just so you know, in John 14, 16, when it says another, it's the Greek word, allas, uh, or allan, but it's cognates of allas and it means another of the same kind and where heteros means another of a different kind, so heterosexual, okay, but, uh, a lot. So that's all he's saying is another of the same kind and what he's designating is I will send you another one like me.
He's not saying, I will send you me. So if you, if you're to look at these verses and you'll see how the oneness people misuse stuff all the time, because they read into the text and notice what's going on in John 14, 16, I will ask the father now who's asking that it's Jesus. Now I asked the oneness people, is Jesus a person? Well, they have to say, yes, then who's he praying to, or who's he talking about? Is he talking about himself? Who's a person, the father, but is the father, the same one? Then why does he speak to the father?
Because if you want to say that the human nature is speaking to the divine nature, then you're saying Jesus, who has two natures as a person, you can't divide up the natures, it just becomes a very big problem for them, but anyway, so I'm just saying that there's, there's that when you go to first John two, one, uh, if anyone says we have an advocate with the father, Jesus Christ, he had the righteous, he's just using the word as a, as an intercessor helper advocate that we have, it's not a big deal. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay. Oh, well, it doesn't mean they're the same person. Remember that here.
Look at me, help you out. The oneness people, which are not Christian, when this theology is not Christian, okay, I want people to know that it teaches that there is no trinity. And that there's only one person in the God who takes different forms or manifestations now, if Jesus is a person, that means he has the attributes of self-awareness, awareness of others, et cetera, that's what personhood is. They even agree that Jesus has two distinct natures, a divine nature and a human nature as one person, not two persons.
Not two persons that would be, um, historianism. So if he's one person, then he's a person with two distinct natures, then who's he praying to? If they say he's praying to himself, then why does the father speak to the son and about the son and why does the son Jesus speak and pray to the father and distinguish separate wills? John, uh, in Luke 22 42, not my will, but your will be done. Jesus is praying to the father. If Jesus is a person, he says, not my will. Then he's saying as a person, he has one will, and therefore he's praying to someone else with a different will. So this negates the idea of oneness being true right there. It proves their position false. Anyway, go ahead.
Yeah. Um, so, um, they, they'd like to use the argument that, that, uh, that it was, uh, Jesus is, uh, uh, fleshly nature, uh, praying to the divine nature. How would you, uh, respond to the status? I just did.
Let me go over it again. If the flesh is praying to the divine, that's a problem. You ask them, is Jesus a single person?
You're going to have to say yes. Because he's one person. They also agree that Jesus has two natures, a divine nature and a human nature, but he, the attributes of both natures are in the one person. Jesus says, I am thirsty. Uh, I'll be with you always. The one person you ask him, is he, is he one person?
Okay. Yes, he is. How do you know he's one person? Because he says me, mine, you, yours, my will, your will. So he's different.
Is he the same person as Peter? Well, no, because they're different and they speak to each other. Okay.
Great. So when Jesus is speaking as a person to the father, are you then saying the flesh is its own person? Because if that's the case, now you're saying that the person of the flesh is praying to the person of the divine. And that's two persons, but you're saying that the flesh then is not divine.
Right. So then if only the human nature is praying to the divine nature, then how is he one person with the attributes of one person, because they're teaching that there's these two persons, that Jesus is two persons, a divine person and a human person, but he's not. He's one person and you get them to admit to begin with, is he one person? Yes, he is.
As soon as they say that they're done. You just got to work through the logic. Are you saying then that the human person is praying to the divine person? Is that what you're saying? Well, no. Well, the human nature, is it human nature have a personhood? Well, yes. Well, then why is the human person praying to the divine person? How is that a true incarnation?
And then you have the doctrine of the communicati, the way to get into stuff. Okay. Okay.
Can I ask a follow up? Sure. So I've seen your debates with oneness and Unitarian and you bring up to them that they don't believe that Jesus, when he died on the cross, had his divine nature, then therefore they don't have a divine sacrifice, which means they're in the state of their nation. So what if a oneness person would say that they agree with you that Jesus did have his divine nature when he died on the cross? Would a oneness person then be saved if they believe that Jesus did have his divine nature when he died on the cross? Well, let's work back up because this is a question I ask of Christians as well. I'm going to use this opportunity to teach them theology.
We've got a break coming up, but this is important for people to understand. Jesus has two natures, a divine nature and a human nature. This is called the hypostatic union. It's old theology. It's been taught for 2000 years.
That's what it is. He's both God and man. The Bible teaches it. So the question is, which nature died on the cross? Well, obviously only the human nature.
Then the question is, if only the human nature died on the cross, then how is a sacrifice of divine value? That's the question. If we get back from the break, I'll explain.
I'll give you the answer and I'll tie it into why oneness fails. Okay. So hold on. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned and it's the 877-207-2276. We'll be right back.
It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276 is Matt Slick everybody. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Elijah from Pennsylvania. You're still there. Yeah, let's go here.
All right. So as I was saying, this is all theology that undergirds the issue of the issue of, of why oneness cannot work and does not work as a false gospel. And so if only the human nature of Jesus died on the cross, then how's the sacrifice of divine value?
The answer lies in the teaching of the communicatio idiomatum or the communication of the properties. And what that means is that the, uh, that Jesus has two natures, divine and human, the divine and the human natures, each have attributes or properties or characteristics, and Jesus as the one person, uh, claimed the attributes of both natures. So he said, I am thirsty. Well, he's claiming the attributes of, of, uh, you know, humanity. And he says, I'll be with you always, even at the end of the earth. And, uh, that's claiming the attributes of divinity. And there's other verses like this that show both sides, but those will, those will suffice. So the one person said, I am thirsty.
I will be with you always. The eye is the one person. So we perceive the death of Christ to the person and the person died on the cross. And therefore the sacrifice has divine value. So this is basic biblical theology. A lot of people don't know it, but it is basic. And it deals with the hypostatic union, the two natures of Christ and the one person and the communicator of the properties or the communicario idiomatum, which deals with the relationship of the attributes of both natures that are ascribed to the single person.
All right. So Jesus speaks as a single person. Now, a little bit more theology is dietheletism. And that's the teaching that each nature of Christ has a will. The word became flesh and a human nature, by definition, has to have a will die means to fill that O means to will and dietheletism means that Jesus, each nature has a will.
However, the two wills are ascribed into the single person and we perceive Jesus as the single person because that's how it works. We don't know what the word is. We don't know how it works.
We just know that it does. So this is the revelation of scripture. So we have what's called the hypostatic union, the communicatio idiomatum, and dietheletism. These are all interrelated doctrines. Now, if oneness is true and Jesus has two natures, they hold to dietheletism, but they hold to nistorianism. Nistorianism is the teaching that in the single body of Christ are two, two persons, a divine person and a human person.
So I've actually run this by some oneness people. I've said varying verses where Jesus speaks in John six, for example, and in John six thirty seven, I've run this by them, all that the father gives me will come to me and I say, who's the me, is it the divine nature or the human nature? And they'll say to me, well, that's the human nature because Jesus is the father.
So it can't be the divine nature speaking to the speaking. It has to be the human nature, all that the father gives me, that means the divine nature is giving to the human nature will come to me. The one who comes to me, the human nature, I will not cast out. I have come down from heaven.
Who's the I? Now that's the divine nature. So the divine nature says, I've come down from heaven not to do my own will, but what will is that? That's the human nature because the human nature is different than the divine nature because they're different natures. So I, the divine nature came down from heaven because obviously it can't be the human nature to them, not to do my own will, which is the human nature, but the will of him who sent me that's himself who's really the father. So you can see how ridiculous this becomes. And so you have in one sentence where the two natures are alternating between speaking, and this is ridiculous.
Oh yeah. And there's a lot of verses like this. I'm writing on this, I think I've read it, I've released an article a couple of months ago about this, where I went through and showed the divine nature, human nature, divine nature, human nature. So we have the alternating Jesus, a person of different nature, alternating nature speaking, it's sometimes in the same sentence as for, I have come down from heaven not to do my own will that's I, the divine person that nature came down from heaven not to do my own fleshly will, but the will, which is really myself of the one who's me up in heaven, who sent me, who sent me, who sent me who's on earth, the human nature.
This is John six 38. So we have the human name, divine nature's altering back and forth. This is ridiculous. This is what the oneness must do in order to be consistent with their theology. Now, when we get to the issue of the toning work, and when Jesus is in the garden, he says, not my will, but your will be done. Now they have to say that the, my will is the human will speaking about the divine. Uh, well, now what they are forced to conclude is that Jesus is two persons. There's a divine person and a human person and they speak to each other, but which nature died in the cross only the human nature, but that's a problem for them because it makes the sacrifice of no value because it's not divine. But then they'll say, no, the father was in the son.
What does that mean? It's not an incarnation because God can be in you. John 14, 23, the father and I will come, come and make our boat in you. It doesn't mean that we're incarnate.
God incarnate is in us. No, it means we're in dwell and that's different than incarnation. So they don't realize what they're doing ultimately is denying the incarnation by affirming the Nestorian heresy. And then they cannot define or it's going to be defend the sufficiency of the divine aspect of the humans of the sacrifice on the cross because only the human nature died.
And since they don't attribute the two natures, the properties of both natures to the one person, the cumulacatio ediomatum, then they don't have a divine sacrifice and it's all bad for them. Okay. Wow.
I never, I never, I never heard you explained it so well. Wow. Wow. That's that's crazy.
Yeah. In fact, uh, David Bernard, he's the number one, one, this guy, we're actually an email contact with each other and we have agreed to do a written discussion on, uh, Trinitarianism and oneness. And so, uh, I have to re contact him because I'm busy, he's busy, but we're going to set the parameters up like 500 word max per thing, maybe five, uh, you know, letters or responses back and forth, cause it'll go on forever, you know. And if he wants to do that, and I'm going to suggest that and we'll see, but he's a oneness guy, and these are some of the things that I'm going to, uh, ask.
This is a serious issue. This is why oneness does not work. And there's other issues related to the problems of oneness dealing with the one and the many or universals in particulars and which is ultimate in reality, you only have three options. Unity or universals are ultimate. From which all things derive the universe and reality matter, or plurality or the individual, uh, manifestations of things like, uh, one, one thing might be a chair, the concept of chair, and then chairs, different chairs are particular manifestations of the idea of chair. Well, which one is the ultimate nature of reality?
Is it the concept of the one or the concept of the many, or the concept of or is it both oneness fails to be able to answer a lot with Islam and some other stuff that we're out of time. I can't get into it. Okay, buddy. Hope that helps. All right. Thanks.
All right. Well, we talked about this kind of stuff on our seminar tonight too. Hey everybody, three open lines, eight, seven, seven, two, zero, seven, two, two, seven six, we'll be right back.
It's Matt slick live taking your calls at eight, seven, seven, two, zero, seven, two, two, seven six is Matt slick. Welcome to the show. I just want to let you know, um, that we're having that seminar tonight. If you want to join us, uh, you can sign up, just go to patreon.com forward slash, uh, forward slash carm org C a R M O R G. And the, uh, everything should work out. If it doesn't for some reason you sign up and it doesn't work out, just let us know. Email us, but it should work out. We're doing this new.
And so there's sometimes, you know, these bugs we don't know about, but, uh, it would help us out. It would help support the ministry and, uh, we really do appreciate it. Let's get on the air with, uh, Frank from Utah. Frank, welcome. You're on the air.
Hello. Um, I have a question concerning, uh, Luke 23 43, um, with the thief on the cross. And as far as my upbringing, I Christian, and I always believe that it's salvation through faith, uh, alone. And, uh, I was having conversations with a Roman Catholic and I gave the thief on the cross as an example of salvation through faith alone, cause the thief had faith, but my question is where did the thief go and what did paradise mean when Jesus told him that he'd be with him in paradise, the paradise we know now when we die or a place of comfort in, uh, Luke 23 43, uh, he says today you'll be with me in paradise now paradise is also spoken of in Luke 16 19 through 31. And, uh, so it's mentioned there and they call it paradise, even though the word isn't there, but, uh, one of the views is that when a person died before Christ was crucified, when a person died, he went to Abraham's bosom, which is also called paradise and the, uh, the person was in a good place there. Now, after the crucifixion, resurrection of Christ paradise is used in second Corinthians 12, uh, two through four, I know a man in Christ who 14 years ago, whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know God knows which a man was caught up to the third heaven. That's the dwelling place of God. The third heaven, and I know how such a man, whether in the body or apart from the body, do not know God knows was caught up into paradise. So it looks like paradise there is equated with the very, uh, presence of heaven. So when we go back to Luke 23 43 that it says today you'll be with me in the paradise. It looks like what's happening is that since the blood of Christ is shed and since he died first, then he died.
Then the door was open for people to go to, to have a paradise. You can mute yourself, can mute yourself. Okay.
Cause it's pretty loud. Okay. I'll, I'll mute you. Okay. I get you muted until we're done here.
Hope you can still hear me. And so it looks like, uh, he went, uh, you know, he, then as it says in Ephesians four, roughly eight through 12, it talks about him leading captive, a host of captives, as he said it on high. So the general theory is that no one could go to heaven, heaven, excuse me.
I had a cough there. No, you go to heaven because Jesus had not yet been crucified. Once he was crucified, then they could go. And he says, you'll be with me in paradise. Paradise is equated by Paul with the third heaven, which is the willing place of God in second Corinthians 12, two through four. So, and we go to Ephesians four, it looks like he led captive, a host of captives. It looks like he went to the old holding place called paradise or Abraham's bosom more properly and then proclaim the gospel to them, not preach it so that they could be saved because they were already justified by faith as was, uh, Abraham in, uh, Romans four, one through five. And so then he led them up into heaven and then later, three days later reenter the body and, uh, uh, rose from the dead. So this is what it looks like.
He's referring to in Luke 23 43 today, uh, you'll be with me in paradise. I hope that helps and explains it, uh, you're back on the air. Does that help? Yes, that does help.
And that was my thought process, but I wasn't sure if I would, it would be sound because I know, uh, Jesus had not, uh, died yet. So there you go. Yeah.
Thank you for that. But I remember he died first. So, uh, it looks like he died before the thief.
Here's the reason is important because some people, how's it go? Let's see. The argument is, um, the argument is, Oh, what was it? There's an argument that he died under the old covenant to Jesus, uh, the rich man after I forgot the argument is I told him it would come back to me.
And, uh, the actual temporality of, okay. I think it was that, Oh, I hope I can explain this right. I've had Roman Catholics and others tell me that, uh, the thief died. Uh, first, I know that, uh, I'm trying to remember this, that they had to do good works in order to be saved because they're all under the old covenant. It was not justification by faith alone.
And that's what, that's what the issue of the thief is referring to. That he died under the old law, had to do good stuff and says, no, when Jesus died first, the new covenant was in effect. And Jesus proclaimed in the old covenant before he died, that he'll be with them. And that's in reference to the new covenant. So Jesus proclaimed it.
This is a little technicality. Jesus was still alive. And so the old covenant was still in effect. We know that because in Hebrews eight 13 and Hebrews nine 15 through 16, the new covenant's not in, uh, invoked or ratified until the death of Christ. So in the old covenant, Jesus says, you'll be with me. And then in the, uh, he died and then it was a new covenant.
And that's what he's referring to. So he died without having to do anything and in the new covenant. So, okay.
I don't know if that helps any. I just got one point of clarification. Who died first, the thief or Jesus? Jesus did.
Jesus died first. Yeah, because they went to break the legs of the, uh, of the guys on the cross. But when he went to Christ and break his legs, he was already gone and they broke the legs and the reason they would break the legs is because in crucifixion, imagine they didn't put the nails in the palms. They put them in the wrist, uh, because otherwise they wouldn't stay up on the cross. So they, they pierced him through the, there's a nerve right between the two bones and the wrist area and they wasn't the hand. It was a wrist in the Jewish culture.
The wrist was part of the hand. And so if it stretched out a lot, this is how they did it. And then they lifted them up in order for the person on the cross to breathe because their arms were so stretched out and because they were in such bad shape, they couldn't breathe very well at all. They would push up on their feet and they would push up on the nail that was going through both feet. So it was excruciatingly bad in order to breathe, you had to do that. And Jesus back had been whipped, ripped open by the cat anion tails, bleeding and raw. So he would have to rub his back up against the cross while he's pressing on the nails on his feet so he could breathe. And this is what they would do for hours and hours because Jesus had already been beaten so severely that he died first. And then they went to break his legs because then you can't push up to breathe anymore.
That's why they would break their legs. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much.
And I appreciate what you do on the radio. All right, man. God bless. Okay. Bless.
All right. We've got a poster. There's no God, but Allah Muhammad is his prophet. That's in the chat room. I'm going to address him from the chat room. I'm going to address him for a minute and we'll get the Rudolph from Raleigh, North Carolina on Catholicism in Islam in surah four, one 71 Allah is a deceiver. And we know that because he says, uh, uh, uh, uh, it's one 70 where as I would find it, it's a one 57, I think it is. Yeah. One 57.
Um, yes, uh, that's right. 57 we killed Christ Jesus. Don't say that and kill Christ Jesus son of Mary, the apostle of Allah. They killed him, not crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them.
So it was somewhat according to the Quran with the Hadith says, and the top sphere said, hope this guy's listening to this in here. When it is, they say that Allah is the one who made someone else look like Jesus in order for that person to be crucified and Jesus was not crucified. That means Allah by his own hand, deceived people specifically by his direct action and direct hand of making someone look like, like Jesus. So Allah is responsible for the arrival and the dissemination of Christianity according to the prophecies of the old Testament that Jesus would be crucified. Psalm 22 and rise from the dead. Psalm two, Psalm eight, Psalm 16.
They would not see corruption. So Allah has deceived people in the Quran to make it look like Jesus was crucified when he was not all his deceiver and, uh, and Mohammed, a false prophet, Sarah four, one 57. Let's get to Rudolph from Raleigh, North Carolina. Rudolph, thanks for the long wait. I didn't got to break any second here, but go ahead. All right. Um, yes. Uh, what's the difference between Roman Catholic and Catholic?
Catholic means universal Roman Catholic is over the history come to mean the Roman Catholic church, but Catholic is the Catholic church means the universal church, but because we say Roman Catholic, now we say Catholic. As Roman Catholic, hold on. Okay. We've got a break coming up. We'll be right back for open lines. Folks, give me a call. 877-207-2276 it's Matt slick live taking a call at 877-207-2276 is Matt slick.
Welcome back to the show for open lines. Why don't you give me a call? 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call. Let's get back on with Rudolph from Raleigh, North Carolina. Rudolph. Welcome.
You're on the air. Yes, sir. Um, you were answering about Roman. Yes, it was just a, like I said, the word Catholic means universal, which is why the early creed say it said the Catholic church, but we understand it normatively speaking now to mean the Roman Catholic church. So that's why we don't say Catholic church anymore because it could be misunderstood to mean the Roman Catholic church, which is apostate. It's a false church that teaches works, salvation, Mary worship idolatry. Uh, you know, it's just, it's full of false teachings.
Okay. So the Roman Catholic is the Catholic is okay or the Roman Catholic is okay, but the Catholic is not no, the term Catholic simply means universal so that there's a universal church or the Catholic church. That's how it was used originally, but because the Roman Catholic church, we call it now, they, the, uh, the term Catholic church became used a lot and became associated with what we call the Catholic church as a, as an organization with the Pope, but originally the term, the word Catholic just meant universal. And through centuries, they would say the universal church. Well, it's the same thing as the word Catholic. So they say the universal church, the universal church is like, what if they use that term all the time they, you know, and then now we'd say the universal church has the Pope, it's the Catholic, uh, you know, it, that's all it is. It's just the commonality and the use of the term became associated with the idea of the Roman Catholic. That's why, uh, people who are in the know will say the Roman Catholic church. But we don't really need to say that much anymore because we get it when we say Catholic church, but the Catholic church is not a true Christian church.
Christian church. Okay. Oh, it is not. All right. Thank you. Okay. All right. All right.
God bless. All right, folks. So we have nobody waiting. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. And, um, I'm just letting you know that tonight in about an hour and 10 minutes, we're going to have a seminar, what we're doing here.
Let me just explain what, what's going on with calm. A lot of people have seminars and stuff. And what we want to do is help fund this ministry.
We have to fund it because if we don't, uh, the radio goes away and, uh, the ministry goes away. Just how it works. Well, one of the things we want to do also was to have scholars and have experts in varying fields where we get together and interview them and discuss a topic and what we're doing tonight is that very thing with some experts. And I'm telling you, these are experts.
Uh, uh, Vern Poithras and Brent, uh, Bosserman, these guys, these two guys, they really know, uh, the doctor, the trivia a lot. Eli Ayala is a friend of mine. I've known him for years and he's one of the few guys that I can talk to who, uh, I can ask questions about.
Now, what about this issue right here? Because he's a lot more studied on philosophy than I am. And I'll ask him questions and he'll, he'll help me out. And then we discussed theology together and you know, he's, um, he's, uh, you know, learned a lot from Carmen and stuff like that. And so, uh, and Eli is going to be in there and he knows the Trinity.
Well, he teaches theology does apologetics. One of the goals that we had at calm was to hire him as, uh, as, as an employee here at calm. And we just don't have enough money to pay him. And, uh, we've already got Luke Wayne, who's great. Luke's a great guy and I need to support me to talk about him and get, you know, he's a good guy. We should have him on. And just as a guest, even though he does the show, I should have him on. Sometimes we could talk about, uh, about him and embarrass him and stuff like that.
I think it was, you should do that. We also got to get, uh, Dave, uh, Brito from Brazil, uh, to call in. And then, um, we have, uh, our, our, our African guys, our Turkish guy. Anyway, so tonight we're going to be having this, uh, seminar, but it's, uh, in order to view it, it's going to cost $10 and what we're doing is we're splitting the, the proceeds to the speakers as well as to the ministry of calm that way, everybody wins.
You win. You get to hear some real experts and calm wins and they win. And it's one of the ways that Christians can help support the furthering of the gospel, the teaching of the gospel. And then what we're going to do is probably after two or three months, we'll take this seminar and we'll just release it publicly. But if you want to see it live, you want to participate and ask questions, then now's the time to do that. And one of the ways to do that is to go to, um, to patreon, P a T R E O N patreon.com forward slash calm org C a R M O R G. And we set it up today.
I set it up today, uh, created the calm org, patreon account and put in the tiers, we have a $5 one that says general support and you don't get to watch the video, uh, tonight, but $10 gets you, gets you access to that. And that's how it's supposed to work. So I'm telling you this because if it doesn't, then it's my fault and you can just write to me and we'll work out, uh, you know, to get your money back. If it doesn't work out right or whatever it is, but it should work out.
Uh, we're hoping. And so Luke has been working very hard on his end doing stuff with zoom and he'll be behind the scenes tonight. Well, I interview these three gentlemen and we're going to be on for two hours. We're probably going to do an hour and a half of discussion and then Q and a after that, so we got a lot going on and we want to do this once a month and, uh, maybe twice a month, but once a month for sure. And varying topics like the Trinity or what's a Christian worldview or the extent of the work of Christ on the cross or, uh, what is the, what are the varying views of salvation? We can do stuff on Islam. I've got Muslim experts who speak Arabic, who would be glad to come on and discuss the issue of, um, uh, of Islam from it and stuff.
These guys since lunch today have forgotten more than I've ever learned about Islam. These guys are fantastic and I know several of them and, uh, they can teach on it as well. We've got all kinds of stuff. So we're trying to really provide a service for the body of Christ. Let's get to Carl from North Carolina.
Carl, welcome you're on the air. I got a question. I think it's, uh, it's in, uh, uh, John, I'm not sure if in, uh, chapter 15, but it has to do in Jesus talking about, uh, little G God, where he mentioned that and talks about, uh, bringing back in the old testament.
I think it's referring to judges. Yeah. Yeah. John 10 34, he's, uh, referring back to Psalm 82 verse six. Yep.
Has it not been written in your life? Said your gods. Okay. So when he's talking about those dots, what's he referring to in that sense? What he's doing is mocking them and, uh, explain he's mocking them. He's condemning them. So let's go to Psalm 82. The Mormons use this and they misuse it terribly. So Psalm 82 is only eight verses and it's an imprecatory psalm.
An imprecatory psalm is a psalm of condemnation and judgment. So I'm going to read the whole thing. It'll take me a minute and then you'll get the context of what's going on. God takes his stand in his own congregation. He judges in the midst of the rulers. How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? This is a Psalm that's written about the unrighteous judges and the wicked people.
Okay. Verse three, vindicate the weak and fatherless, do justice to the afflicted and destitute, rescue the weak and needy, deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. They do not know, nor do they understand.
They walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, you are gods and all of you are sons of the most high. Nevertheless, you will die like men. And fall like any one of the princes, arise, O God, judge the earth for it is you who possesses all the nations. That's an imprecatory psalm because in it, it says, nevertheless, you will die like men and fall like any one of the princes. It's a condemnation and judgment and the context is the unrighteous judges of Israel. The Pharisees were like the unrighteous judges. So what Jesus was doing was quoting this to them, because in John 10, 30, I and the father are one, they want to kill him.
They pick up stones again to throw at him. And he said, many good works in the father I've shown you for which of these are you stoning me? And the Jews said, well, not for good work, because you being in man, make yourself out to be God. Now they're claiming he's claiming to be God, which is true, but they deny that he's God and Jesus, he's smart.
Has it not been written in your law? I said, you're gods. So what he's doing, he's saying, you're calling, saying that I'm not calling saying that I'm wrong to calling me God, but the Bible says your guys are gods. And he says, if he called them gods to whom the word of God came and the scripture cannot be broken, do you say of him whom the father sanctified and sent into the world, you're blaspheming because I'm the son of God.
So he's really smart. And what he's doing is using the scriptures against them. And while at the same time calling them unrighteous judges, because they know the context, I said, you are God say, no, it's Psalm 82 six.
It's an imprecation. He says, you're saying this God is condemning the unrighteous judges. And yet it says you're God's and what sense are they God's not like Mormons teach. You can become God's. No, they have power of life and death and they're unrighteous, which is why it says in the Psalm vindicate the weak and the fatherless.
Take care of them. You're not doing it. And then he says, so why are you complaining if I say I'm the son of God and the Bible says, you're God's what's the problem here? They don't want to tackle him any further. Therefore they're seeking again to seize him, but he looted their grasp. They want to kill him.
He's upsetting them a lot. This is who Jesus was, but he's not the blonde hair, black Caucasian surfer dude, dress their omen's night count, who only says nice things. He actually is condemning them and mocking them at the same time. Okay.
Okay. Hey, you brought up with the Mormons. I assume when you're talking about that with God and I, you know, I grew up out West too, so I believe the Mormons think that when they get to heaven, they're made into God, but they don't think they believe they're God's now. But when they get to heaven, they are all processed. They are God's.
That's what I'm trying to understand. The only, if they keep only to keep celestial law, then they have the potential of becoming God's by, uh, by ascending into the third heaven, celestial heaven. And then inside of that are three levels. And the highest is the church of the first born. And in that is where they shake hands with God through a veil and they, um, give us the hugs, but they learn these things in the temple. The reason that Mormons have the temples is to learn the secret things and be sealed to your wife or your husband for time and eternity so you can stay family.
So you can stay families in heaven and, you know, maybe become a God and produce your own planet with offspring that you have relations with your spouse with that produce a spirit babies in heaven. That's what goes on in the temple among other things with the apron, which is, oh my goodness, if you have the context of the apron, which is the same apron, same pattern of apron that Satan wears, but this is another thing. And so that's what's going on.
And so only if they keep celestial law and I know of no Mormon who's ever just kept celestial law. Okay. Yeah. Do you understand anything about the undergarments that they wear?
Is that what you were talking about? All right. All right. Well, keep up the good work out there, man. I appreciate your ministry. Well, thank you very much.
Well, God bless Carl. All right. God bless. Bye. Bye. Okay. All right.
Ladies and gentlemen, we're at the end of the hour and in one hour we're going to have a seminar on the Trinity, how it explains everything. If you're curious about it, you go to Facebook on carm.org. The link in the information should be there. And you can also go to patreon.com forward slash corn org.
It should be there as well. If you have any questions, just email us at info at carm.org. We'll send you the information. God bless everybody. We'll talk to you later. Have a great evening. Another program powered by the truth network.
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