Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Today's date for the podcasters is April 25, 2022. If you want to give me a call, we have five open lines.

8772072276. Okay, let's see. So, Friday I had a debate and I didn't prep for the debate at all. And the reason is because I forgot I had a debate. And so someone, Laura, said, hey, you ready for the debate tonight?

You're going to have a what debate? So I go, oh, that's right, it's scheduled. And it was on this doctrine of the Trinity.

The Bible teaches the doctrine of the Trinity. And so I had a discussion with this guy. And, you know, I've gone over a lot of this stuff before. And so, you know, I understood. And so let's see, let's see.

Trinity versus oneness is what it was. And it was a good, I thought it was a good discussion. I thought the opponent didn't present his position very well. I always, you know, of course I'm biased, okay? But, you know, if any of you heard the debate, watched it, I'd be interested in your feedback. One thing that was interesting, I thought, that my opponent said, which floored me, he said, well, gee, this was not a man.

You know, it's one of those things you just stop, you know, and you're staring. You're like, what? He was not a man? No, he was not.

I said, so wait a minute. So you're telling me Jesus was not a man. That's right. Did he live? Yes. Did he breathe? Yes. But he wasn't a man.

Even though he's alive, he's breathing. That's correct. You know, and you're like, ah, wow, okay. What do you do with that? You know, I don't get silenced very often, but sometimes there's just things where you just stare into the air.

It's like, what do you do with that? And so I quoted a verse, 1 Timothy 2.5. There's one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. I said, so there is a man. He goes, notice what it says. It says that Christ is a man. And I said, I'm going, it says Christ Jesus, the man. He goes, see, it says Christ. Yes, it also says Jesus. He goes, no, it's the Christ that was man. I mean, it was incredible.

You know, it's just like the reason it was so bad. And I said, look, this Christ, it just means the anointing. Jesus is the name of the man.

And he goes, no, it's Christ who's the man, not Jesus. I'm like, this is just OK, OK, OK. So sometimes, if you think about it, people's logic is just so inanely bad that it's like they're given over to just lame lammosity.

It's just like, are you kidding me? How do you come up with that? And so I have, actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I have on CARM a dictionary. But we call it the slicktionary. And so to blurify is to use big words, citations, in order to make things unclear. Denialation, the state of willing ignorance in the face of truth.

A lot of these fun words are made up. Densification, the practice of failing to think clearly due to increased cerebral confusion while attempting to put down what you really don't understand. Let's see, dodgification, the repeated practice of using useless statements in an attempt to avoid challenging truth made against an assertion. Let's see, flabbergaste or irritate. Do you say something that flabbergasts someone?

While also irritating them. That's flabbergastriore, it's hard to even pronounce, flabbergastrioreate. And then to horrificify, to make something heretical, to distort the truth so much that it becomes a false teaching.

It's fun, I made up these words. And to rambleify, the practice of speaking about nothing, switching topics and not focusing in order to sound competent without really saying anything, to rambleify. Let's see, slickification. Someone said, man, you've got to put in the slickification. Slickification, the process by which a person is converted to Matt Slick's theology and desire to attack heresy. So, oh, I got to kick out of that. Stubbornization, to refuse to learn, be corrected, or adjust a position due to an idolatrous fixation on an opinion.

I actually encountered that on Saturday. I was talking to somebody who was an anti-reform, rabid anti-reform guy. And I said, no, irresistible grace is not that you can't resist God's graciousness and things like that.

It's that at the point of regeneration, the act of regeneration, that at that point you can't resist God's grace, the grace of regeneration. And it took 14 times for me to get up and say, can you repeat what I said? Because he wouldn't recognize it. I'm like, what is going on? And anyway, so there's a bunch of things like that called the slicktionary. You just got to come to the left.

Slicktionary, and you can get some more stupid words that we made up for fun. Oh, man, I enjoyed that. I need to hear that. That was fun. Let's just jump on the line. Let's get to Amor from North Carolina. Amor, welcome. Or Amor, I guess.

Oh, welcome. Is that your name, Amor? No, just Amor? Oh, OK, because if it was Amor, I was going to ask you, what was your favorite fish?

It would be Amor. What's that? Go ahead.

I'm listening what you're saying, and your intro, I'm laughing. What about that? The slicktionary. Yeah, it's a lot of stupid stuff in there.

Yeah. Anyway, Matt, to hear from you, it's not my first time to call you. I listen to you all the time, but straight to the point, because I know you have a lot of colors, too. I've been listening a lot to R.C.

Sproul. He's one of my favorites. I'm listening a lot. He's one of his topics of justification by faith alone, which I really like listening to that many, many times. And during the Council of Trent, and I'm sure you're very familiar with this thing, I'm sure, of course, the Council of Trent, during the Reformation, the Roman Catholics want to respond to Luther and all those other guys, and they speak to it that you still have to have faith plus work and all this indulgence and all this, and all this thing. Why do you, and they did it in 1645, almost 20 years, they made it in Trent deep between Italy and today they stick to that faith plus work and et cetera and all this thing. Why do you think they stick to that as the Pope or the high priest? Are they ignorant or they just don't know what the Bible is?

They're educated, I'm sure. It's simple. They don't use the Scripture as a final authority.

It's as simple as that. If the Scripture was the final authority, they would subject everything to the Scripture, and then they wouldn't be praying to Mary. They wouldn't believe in these Mary apparitions. They wouldn't believe in some papacy. They wouldn't believe in authority of priests and Eucharist stuff. They would only believe in the Scriptures and not tradition also. And that's why they have so many false doctrines.

Simple. I mean, what I'm trying to kind of understand, and you can explain to me better, I mean, what are they thinking? Are they just refusing the scripture, the summa scriptura, the sola fide? No, they don't.

It comes down to this. They do not hold the Scriptures as the final authority. They hold their own church as equal to Scripture, and the church, the Catholic Church, interprets Scripture so the church is the final authority.

And that's it. So in that, they are idolatrists because idolatry is giving to the created thing which belongs to God. Instead of giving the Scriptures, which from God is the final authority, they're doing it for man's tradition. They're idolaters.

Yeah, I like what the artist was saying about that back in the day. Even today, I've got some relatives who are still Roman Catholic. You can buy indulgence, you can buy alms, all the saints and all these things. I said, what are they thinking? Are they using the same Bible?

Well, they use the same Bible, but what I do with Catholics sometimes when I'm talking to them and we're having discussions after a half hour to an hour of going back and forth, I say, show me Scripture, show me Scripture. And they'll say, well, the Church Fathers say, and Pope so-and-so says. And then after a while, what I'll do is I'll actually ask them.

I'll say, could you do me a favor? Could you look under your feet? And they go, well, what are you talking about? This is under your feet. You got shoes on or whatever. And they go, yeah.

What's under your feet? And they'll say, well, it's the rug. And I say, oh, I thought the Bible would be under your feet. I try and get them to see that they're trampling the Word of God under their feet in order to make their doctrines true. In fact, when I was having a discussion on Discord on Saturday, a four-hour discussion teaching biblical theology, and I went through Scripture, and I mean I really went through Scripture, and there were Catholics in there saying, that's a heretic. And they were saying, the Church Fathers don't teach this. And it's the same thing. They don't look at God's Word. They look at another shepherd. That's what they're doing.

And so that's why they don't believe the Word of God. And I really admire you, Matt. Continue what you're doing. What do you think about it? By the way, I let you go up. I know a lot of people like it, but I like to listen. He's also the same with Arcy and some other debate. John, what's his name? The one in John MacArthur. You hear that guy? Yeah, he's great.

John MacArthur. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he's great, man. Thank you. Oh, man. He's tearing it up.

John MacArthur. Yeah, you're right. But anyway, Matt, I like listening to you. I like listening to you. Good. I like when Arcy's Pro liked the first apologetic I think about you.

And first apologetic, if you want to say that way, the Apostle Paul is already correcting all the false beliefs back in the days, and even today still going on. And you are one of, in the Arcy's Pro described John MacArthur, he's one of the guy I like. He'll fight for you, and I will include you in that. If you are in a war, I want you to be in the foxhole with me.

You're fighting with the faith. And I include you in that. Well, that's high praise and thank you. And by God's grace, I'm able to do what I do and keep doing it. And that's what I do. Matt, I listen to you every day. And God bless you.

And keep doing what you're doing. I pay for you every day. Well, thank you very much.

We need those prayers. I appreciate it. All right. You have a nice day.

Thank you for making my call. Thank you. All right, man. God bless. God bless you. All right. Bye-bye. All right. That's cool.

All right. Okay, so we have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 8772072276.

Let's get to, I guess, Blanca from Utah. Welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt. How are you? I'm doing okay. How are you?

I'm great. So Matt, I have a question for you. So I go to a Baptist church.

It's going to get ready to be moved to another area. But I got married in this Baptist church. And then, so it turns out that the person that I married, he had a really bad drug problem. And a drinking problem.

It kind of started off small, but then it kind of progressed into more and more. So being that I got married, so I guess what would you like to say? Can you hold on, Blanca?

Sorry. We got a break. And I just, I want to hear you, but we just got to wait until the break's over, okay? Can you hold on? And we'll continue after the break. Sorry about that. Hey, folks.

We have two open lines. Why don't you give me a call? 877-207-2276. Be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show.

And let's get back to Blanca from Utah. Welcome. Are you still there?

I'm still here. Okay. All right.

So the guy you married has a drug and alcohol problem. That's increasing, right? Yeah. Okay. And so my question is, so I went back to the church. It's an independent Baptist church. All right.

So they said that they're not really affiliated with the Baptist, but they're like independent, so I'm not really sure what that is. So I went back to the church, and I asked how I could get a divorce. How you get a divorce? So- Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Yes. How I could get a divorce. You want a divorce?

For what reason? Well, so this has kind of been like an off and on kind of situation with his drug habit. But the problem is, is that he leaves, so he will take off like out of state, and he'll just leave. And then he'll come back. And then, and then I, so I get back with him because I'm trying, I'm thinking that that's the right thing to do.

I was kind of looking in the Bible to see if, you know, what would be the ground. So I went to the church because what happened was- With the church, yes. He left me like about five times. He what? So off and on- He what?

Wait, wait, wait, wait. He keeps leaving. Did you say he slapped you? He leaves me. Leaves me. Like he left.

Oh, he left. Okay. All right. Yeah. So he's not like violent or anything like that, but he just, he's like a habitual liar.

And then he's like, he's been with other women. Okay. Okay.

I've got advice for you then. Okay. Okay.

Okay. What you need to do is you need to go to the elders of your church. You need to have a sit down with them and you need to keep a record of everything you're doing. You need to have a journal.

You need to have it so you can't lose this journal and you just put dates. On this date, I talked to so-and-so about this issue. And even if you say, you know, Matt's like on the radio, you know, he recommended I go to the elders of the church, you know, on this date, I went to the elders of the church. I asked them for a meeting, you know, on this date we had a meeting. In the meeting I talked about this. And you, you, you write things out like this. There's a reason. I'll tell you why in a minute. You need to also put a history of the things that you've done in order to work with your husband and try and reconcile. And then you need to also list the problems, best dates you've got.

Just say the best you remember and this is it. Because this can become a legal document. And one of the reasons I'm telling you to do this is you need to be involved with the elders because the elders need to take over this issue.

Not me. They need to take it over. Now if he's committed adultery, you have grounds for divorce and this needs to be written down. But this document will be, can become legal, a legal document that can be used in the divorce court if you need it. But also for later on, should you ever want to get married again, you'll have documentation along with the elders and the whole bit that you went through as you sought reconciliation. But at some point they recommended, they recommended it's okay to get a divorce because of, of XYZ. And that's why you need to do that. Oh, well they gave me the paper, Matt, so they gave me a divorce paper and two people signed it and they put it like in regards to like abandonment.

Okay. So the biblical grounds for divorce is abandonment and adultery. So if he's done either one or both, you have grounds for divorce, not the obligation of divorce. So at this point, uh, you have that freedom to be able to do that if he's done that. If you however have forgiven him and you've reconciled and then you want to go back on it, that's a problem because you've already forgiven.

If he is unrepentant and he keeps doing it, you have grounds of divorce of course. But I'm trying to tell you, you need to keep this journal. You need to do this because if you ever have to go before any other elders, you ever want to get married again, let's say to God by his great mercy grants you a good guy.

And he's a godly man. And they say, well, you've been divorced. Yes. Well, what's the occasion of the divorce? And you whip out this document or this booklet or whatever it is and say, look, here it is. And you have copies of this thing. That's why I would say do it online and where you can keep it. You know, they have different online storage things and you print it up and you have a couple of copies on the house, that kind of a thing where if he ever needed in five years, you got this document, it will be a real help for you. It also documents what the issue is.

And the elders need to, you know, if they can write it on their own or they sign it or whatever it is so that it's all above board, all biblical, okay. I'm trying to watch out for you. Okay. I just didn't know how many times I have to forgive him. Seventy times seven. Seventy times seven. Well, I did it, but he keeps doing it and doing it and doing it and now he keeps leaving and now I'm scared that he could be dead somewhere because I haven't heard from him. Okay, what I was going to say is seventy times seven, but there comes a point when you're free to divorce because he has broken his covenant and continues to break it. You've sought reconciliation. You've sought it on your own.

You've sought it with the help of the elders and if they recommend, okay, it's time to get a divorce, then fine, okay, then you do that. Keep the documentation. I'm so worried. No, you'll be okay.

I will. Just so you know, just so you know, God issued a writ of divorce against Israel, okay. Divorce is not automatically a sin.

I know a lot of people think it is, but it's not, okay. Well, if you know what, Matt, he, my ex-husband, he kept saying, well, the Bible says it's a sin. Wait a minute.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You said ex-husband. You were married before this?

Well, no, the same man that I'm talking about. No, they gave me a divorce because- Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Is he, are you married to him right now, yes or no? Were you married to him right now?

Are you divorced? No, so I went and got the papers. Well, I guess they gave me the papers. Blanca, Blanca.

But he said that that's not a good paper because God says we have to be together to die. Blanca, Blanca, Blanca. I'm asking you a question. Are you legally divorced? Yes, yes, the papers says I am. I mean, I never went to the courts.

Okay, okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, okay. I'm trying to find out something very specific. You need to find out if you're divorced legally. You need to find this out. If the elders gave you papers, that's just papers. I don't know what those papers are. You sign them, it doesn't, you have to be filed. What's the legality? You need to find out because if you're not- Oh my God, and I've never filed.

Blanca, Blanca, Blanca, Blanca, Blanca, Blanca. You need to find out, you need to talk to these elders, you need to get this situated. Furthermore, if it's such that you are not divorced right now, you have no business and no right to date anybody else either.

This is important, okay, I'm not getting on you, but you've got to find out. Just because you signed something and it's on your desk, so to speak, doesn't mean it's all legal. I don't know what papers they gave you, you've got to find out. Well, the marriage paper that they gave me was a piece of paper too. They never filed it with the courts and I've never had it either.

They said it's a covenant marriage. Blanca, you need to make sure you're legally divorced, okay? Find out, all right? Okay, got it. Okay, then let me know. Okay. All right, we'll talk to you later. All right. Thank you. Okay, God bless. Okay.

Whew, interesting. Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276, we'll be right back after these messages. Here's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to Open Lines, 877-207-2276. Let's see if Jim from North Carolina is still on the air. Jim, welcome. You're on the air, buddy.

Yeah. Hey, Matt. I'm going to try to be as calm as I can about this, but something is occurring in our community at an elementary school targeting first to sixth graders, and it's called the Satanic Temple After School Satan Club. And they're following locations or schools where they have another group called the Child Evangelism Fellowship, wherever they have good news clubs.

And I believe the point of it is either to offset against Christianity, or to have people become so enraged that they end up kicking the Christian-oriented clubs out of the schools altogether. You want some advice? This is, oh goodness, Matt, I tell you, I have so many thoughts in my mind, I know I don't want to start rambling because then you'll start going, do you have a question? Well, this is not a do I have a question comment. This is something worth discussing.

I'm with you. This is serious, and there's going to be a door opened. My wife in the school system, fortunately, she's getting ready to retire. She's not at this school. She's in a high school.

She said that she would not walk into a school that had this take place at the school because of a potential door that would open within that school that she could not be in the same location at. Let's talk. Thank you, Matt. All right. I have a principle that I've said, just an opinion. A lot of times Christians will resign from something in protest, and because their Christian values are going to resign, and then the Christian presence is now gone, and it's filled by unbelievers.

I've always had a problem with that. I think Christians need to stay in the fight and fight, not in every single instance. You've got to make your own choice. There's always variables, but I think we Christians need to say, okay, let's just use this as a hypothetical.

I'm not saying your wife should or shouldn't do anything. I'm just saying, hypothetically, we're looking for not so much a hypothetical anymore. There's a group that does Satanism, and there's a Christian group.

All right. Now, Satanism will ultimately fall on its own. What they're trying to do is counter the biblical gospel. If the biblical gospel is present, then the darkness also will work against it. What you have to do as a Christian is you get your people, and you start praying against them. You can pray imprecation. An imprecation is a prayer of destruction and harm upon them.

They are enemies. Like the Psalms. Yes, like the Psalms. Call them precatory Psalms. You can go to Psalm 82, for example. It says in a precatory Psalm, never bless you, you will die like men. Then I forget, there's other Psalms. I have it on Karm in precatory Psalms listed in the mouth, and there's comments like, God, wipe them out. You can pray, Lord, we pray for their salvation and their conversion, but Lord, aside from that, take care of them. You have people pray this. They'll say, no, you've got to turn your other cheek.

It's a blond haired, blue-eyed Caucasian surfer, Jesus. Lay down. Do nothing.

No. Pray. I would pray an imprecation upon them. And I would pray also for their salvation.

Yeah, now fortunately my wife is retiring, so that's already been in place. But there's a lot of concern within the community and our church, people that I know. But this club is saying proselytization is not our goal, and we're not interested in converting children to Satanism.

After school Satan clubs will focus on free inquiry and rationalism, the scientific basis for which we know what we know about the world around us. Okay, let me continue what we need to do, let me continue, because I know what you're talking about. Okay, familiar with this. This is the first step. You guys have got to get to a community, and you've got to be praying, and you have to have several people praying, and a group of people praying on a regular basis. They need to covenant and commit to doing this on a regular basis.

That's one thing. The other thing that needs to be done is you have to equip the Christians there. And when the atheists say what you say, rational stuff, let me tell you, they are not rational. I would love to debate them. I'd love to have a debate with them. They want to talk about rationality?

I'll clean their clocks. Not that I'm saying I'm great, I'm saying they don't have an ultimate standard of rationality from which they can then make their statements. They cannot defend those statements as being true. They're going to rip things out of scripture and things like that. So you can defeat that by simply equipping the believers.

That's what you need to do. Yeah, and so the parents of the Good News Club are similar type clubs. And by the way, I looked at the statement of faith of the Good News Club, the organizers for that, and it's good statement of faith. I looked at it closely, salvation by faith, faith alone, deathly statement. So what they're doing is they're targeting this group.

I agree the people that are supporting that then need to step up and be prepared because they're targeting first graders to sixth graders who will not have the ability to push back with their classmates who may end up being somehow interested in this group. Well, if we were off the air, I would give you some other suggestions. If we were off the air, we could have some other discussions. But as far as what you do, you have to be praying.

And you can't quit. The Christians can't resign and go away and take their ball and go home because some didn't work out the way they want. This is the way of the devil, it's the way of evil. The Christians need to rise up within the situation and they need to equip the Christians. And they just need to pray and ask God to open up doors. That's what needs to happen. Well, then I'll get with our church community and speak with them about this and get our church praying.

My Sunday school class, we did pray on Sunday morning and had just come up in the past week. I won't repeat. I tend to verbally process, so I'll try not to repeat, but you can tell I'm upset.

Yes, I got you. But if you want, I'd be glad to have a phone meeting with some of the parents and we can discuss these things and strategize and the whole bit. And the commitment of prayer needs to come in, not only for salvation, but all for imprecation also. And then you need to equip the children that are there. Parents need to be involved. Unfortunately, what happens is a lot of times parents think that the clergy is supposed to take care of everything. They just go on Sunday mornings, pay a tithe, they're done.

No. They've got to equip their Christian children, and there's ways to do that. And you don't have to teach them about Satanism. That might make them curious. You just find out where they're at, what's going on, and you prepare them. And then you can see if you can have meetings on campus.

You can see if after school, you have pastors go in and teach. And people can start saying, what about this other club? Perfect example to say, well, this is who it is. Look how bad it is.

You go to the scriptures, this is what he does. And they're trying to make it look good. Are you kidding me? It's a great opportunity.

It's a great opportunity. Okay. Well, I think I said enough, because if I say more about the frequently asked questions for the Satan Club, then that means I'm giving out information that I really don't want to go over their ways. So I'm going to not say more about what they're doing. That's correct. I'm quite familiar with it. Yeah, I'm familiar with it. Okay. Oh, good. Yeah, because I was going to send you links and the like.

Send them. And it's the, this organization and the organization which they're following to try to get kicked out of the schools. And they want, yeah, it's funny if you look, if you look at the symbol though, if you look at the symbol that the satanic temple uses, it looks like one eye is damaged compared to the other eye. And it looks like maybe an arm is withered. Yes, because it's a symbol of the antichrist. I forgot of the Old Testament, which exactly, exact verse, but the antichrist will have a withered eye and a withered arm.

And his desire will not be for women. Yep. Yep. I got that. I've written on it.

Who's the antichrist? I've vented. I'm just hot as blue blazes right now about this and reading through it. Okay. Look. Look, contact me, okay, if you need help, you know, after the show or whatever you need, you know, people want to get, parents want to get together.

What do we do? I'll come in with a phone call, you know, on speakerphone. Let's talk. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it very much. I'm serious.

I'm not kidding. I got to calm down. But you have righteous indignation. Now it's time, I would recommend you do is get an outline and write down the things that you need to do. In fact, I need to write an article on this.

What can be done? Okay. Yep. Okay. All right. Yeah. Other callers, I'm sure. So go on ahead and... We do.

We do. I'm going to try to calm down for a sec and get online, get back into chat and enjoy, not as eloquent as Vicki and others when they speak, but that's okay. Vicki's eloquent? Wow.

Man, that's really hot. That's why I'm here. That's what she says? You know, she's kind of a bird brain. That's because she raises stuff with hawks, folks.

That's an inside joke. She's a falconer. Yeah. Yeah.

She's a falconer. All right. I'm going to... Okay. Okay. Take care. Thank you. All right.

Go ahead and send an email, I think, first. Yeah. And I'm going to talk it up with the people within Sunday School, within the church. Yes. I'm going to also... And pastors.

And the elders. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay.

But yours and yours. Got to go. Okay. All right, man.

God bless. I know. I got it. Appreciate it. Okay. Hey, folks.

Two open lines. We'll be right back after these messages. Give me a call. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

This is Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show.

Let's see if we can get to Jose from Texas. Jose, welcome. You're on the air, buddy. Hello.

Hello, Matt. How's it going? Yeah.

Sorry for the long wait, but boy, I tell you, busy day. So what do you got, man? Okay. Yeah. Hey. So I heard a message. I don't want to call it that sort of thing. And it's talking about the Blue Form Revelation 3.14.

Okay. My question is, I don't think it's just straight and simple. Is it possible for a Christian, a true believer, to go in that state of lukewarm? Yes. What does it mean by Jesus saying that he will spit them out? Does that necessarily mean that they'll lose their salvation, I guess? No, you can't lose your salvation. That's right.

John 10, 27, 28, John 6, 37 through 40, 1 John 2, 19, et cetera. But I think it's about, Revelation 3 is about Laodicea. And just so you know, hey, I've been there. I've been to Laodicea, walked through the ruins. Oh, it's awesome.

That's just a brag, you know. But it's not talking up here about this issue, about losing your salvation. It's to the church, to a group of people. And they're going to remove the candlestick.

Their anointing as a group will be removed. There were streams there that were hot springs and that were cold. And sometimes it would mingle, and they weren't good for either one. And so the idea is, look, own up and live according to what you're supposed to live. And if you don't, we're going to remove the lampstand and stuff.

So what you do is buy gold refined by fire to become white garments. Because you're weak, because you're lukewarm. You're not standing for the Lord. Make that choice.

Do it. And that's what he's saying, okay? Okay, so this has nothing to do with individual salvation, correct?

Well, ultimately, yes, because it's individuals who end up getting saved. But he's talking to the church at Laodicea. Every time I think of the word Laodicea, I think of me walking down the main street and the pillars and the ruins and everything that's right there in Laodicea. And I can still remember the outlines and the stones of the homes that people lived in and that they were excavated.

And there was a big area walked over in plexiglass that you could look down into. So it was an actual community of all kinds of people, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. And so what he's saying is look, Laodicea, it's the church of that group. It's that people there. Now, a church can have lukewarm people, hot people, and cold people. It can have people who are not believers in it as a church as a whole. It doesn't say they're saved. So Paul will often write, and John will too, in the context of unbelievers and believers mixed.

And so how is he going to address it? You better get it together. You better repent. You better make sure you're in Christ. Well, that means you can lose your salvation. It doesn't say that. You see?

Okay. Well, thank you for clarifying that point because it's very popular in the Spanish area, by the way. In the what area? In the Spanish area. Really? They use a lot of preaching.

They use a lot of, I guess, this verse to, you know, I guess to prove that you can lose your salvation if you don't, I guess, in a way say, if you don't work yourself out against your salvation. It should be nice, man. It would be very nice. I mean, I think your Spanish is very good. I think you probably, I watched you last time. You had with Luis Carlos de Reyes. I'm not saying you didn't need no moderator.

You did pretty good. Well, there's a lot of concepts I can't speak and say, but I do know someone who speaks Spanish very well. Carlos, he's in Barranquilla.

And El Savitholo. El pueda entañar todolamente. And that's a subject. Okay.

Okay. All you've got to do is just email Carlos at carm.org. And one of the things I've been thinking about is just spending two months with him. I'd like to have him come here, but he can't, and spend two months with me so I can get fluent fluent in Spanish so I can learn the theological terms and how to say all kinds of stuff.

Yeah. So I can get in there and teach in Spanish, which is something I want to do. But nevertheless, there are a lot of competent people who speak Spanish. You speak Spanish, obviously, and you can learn these things easily and start teaching them.

Carlos can do it too. Yeah. I refer a lot to your website.

It's been a blessing. Okay. You know about Mia Peak? Sabatilosita. Sabatilosita? Yeah.

I asked you one time. I was just going to your website and I was able to see. Anyways, I shared that with my Spanish speaking friends. Good. They like it. There's a lot of good material.

There's a community table too. That's so useful. Yeah, have him contact Carlos. Carlos, he's great. He's awesome.

When I was in Barranquilla years ago with him, I was speaking in English to interpret because my Spanish is. I'm 70% there, I think. 60, 70%. Not quite enough to be able to be.

I think you're at 90. The concept, I think, is sometimes the way they pronounce it. I don't think you have an accent.

You're pretty good. Is it what I'm saying? I've heard people that they just can't get it.

They got something wrong with them, but they just can't get it. But I think you, man, you got it. It just doesn't even seem like you have an accent. I appreciate that. Yeah.

But I was saying, I was listening to Carlos teach, and I could understand most of what he was saying. And I'm like, dude, that guy knows his stuff. So he's a great guy. Another good contact. And also there's a guy in Los Angeles. He's a cop friend of mine, and he's fluent in both languages.

He teaches theology too. I can put you in contact with him. Okay. Have a good one. You too, man.

God bless. All right. Cool. All right.

Let's try Norman from North Carolina. 34 minutes. You've been on a long time.

I think it's a new record. You still there? Yeah, yeah, but very entertaining. You're both ahead of me, so very good. Okay. Yeah.

You're very patient with your college. So my question is, probably about 11 years ago, somebody challenged me and said that the virgin birth actually originated in Greek mythology. And I didn't have an answer for it at the time.

Of course, that always bothers me whenever I don't have an answer to an objection to the Christian faith. But I kind of forgot about it. I heard it again on Renewing Your Mind, the R.C.

Sproul program recently, not too long ago. And I remember him saying that that has been brought up, and he didn't really refute it in his dialogue. Okay.

So I thought I'd better call you and get your take on what is the proper response to that, and what's the reference material that I can use to defend the response? Reference material I'm not so much familiar with. However, what I'd recommend you do is look up stuff like astrology. Believe it or not, there are books written that deal with the issue of the gospel in the stars, written from a Jewish perspective way before the time of Christ. And it's a Jewish astrological system where the 12 zodiacs actually present the gospel, and then it was secularized and modernized and moved away from it. It's just a weird kind of a thing, and it actually talks about a virgin birth from the ancient Jewish system of how they analyzed the stars, Virgo, Virgin. It comes from this old Jewish system that got inculcated and moved into Christian thought and Greek thought from before the time of Greek thought.

That's why I'm saying that, okay? One of the mistakes that they'll make is to say that if it came before, therefore what came after it is what borrowed. But Greek thought also had many gods. But if you go to ancient Chinese stuff, look up ancient Chinese characters' gospel. Just look up ancient Chinese characters' gospel or Christianity.

You will see lots of sites that talk about ancient Chinese symbols. It goes back 6,000 years. That's like 4,000, you know, 3,000 before Greek theology. And it talks monotheism. The symbol for sin is a tree with a snake in it. The symbol for boat is a mouth with a number 8 and a boat, 8 mouths, 8 souls, 8 people in the Ozark.

It goes on like this. Justification is something to do with something broken over a person. Anyway, you can see. So the point is that these things are verifiable from way before Greek theology. Second, let's just say there is a connection that Greeks did teach of virgin birth as well as Christianity. So it doesn't mean one borrowed from the other. Furthermore, if you go to Isaiah 7.14, it says a virgin will be with child.

When they translated the word Alma into the Septuagint at 250 B.C., they used the Greek word Parthenon, which means virgin. The Jews understood. At 600 B.C., that's before Greek theology also. Okay? Yeah, that was one of my questions for you.

Isaiah. I thought that was before Greek mythology. Yeah.

From what I understand. There's evidence, right? There's all kinds of stuff you can use, and plus it opens up doors for other conversations with the Gospel and the stars. It sounds weird, but it's actually there. It's actually documented that the Jews actually had this in their astronomy. They saw these patterns because the stars show the glory of God. And they looked, and they said, this is what this is. And there's books out on it.

And then there's books out on the ancient Chinese stuff as well. Are you saying that in the ancient Jewish zodiac they saw the virgin birth? Yes. Is this the virgin birth? Yes. Really?

You can get the book, The Gospel and the Stars, by Joseph Seiss. S-E-I-S-S. Okay.

Thanks, Jimmy. In the chat. It's one of the things I need to do. It's a research project I want to do and collect information to provide it. I'm swamped.

I'm doing NAR stuff right now. But there's plenty of evidence to counter those claims. Okay. But Isaiah referenced predates Greek too as well, right? Well, let's see. If we were to go and say what are the dates of Greek culture, ancient Greek culture.

Let's see. Ancient Greek culture, right? Then 776 B.C. is one of the things.

I'm just looking at numbers that comes up. So Isaiah was written around 600 B.C. How far was the Greek culture? Was it extending over there to Israel already?

Has it been in contact? Yeah. So the people who say these things don't do their homework. They don't. Okay. I'm telling you, they don't. Right.

That's what I'm trying to do. Next time I get that objection, I want to be ready. That's right.

The first Olympic games at 776 B.C., Homer's Iliad, 750 B.C., so about 100 years before. So they could say, well, it was therefore borrowed. And then you can ask them, show me how it was borrowed and show me where it was.

Show me. And then you want to trap them with the issue of, you want to trap them. Oh, so it comes before?

It means that what followed came, and they'll say yes. Then you got them. Then you whip out the stuff on the Jewish astronomy and the ancient Chinese culture, the symbols. Say, I'm sorry, from your own wording, now that means the Greeks borrowed from them. Yeah.

And the virgin birth is in that. Good. Okay? Yeah. Okay.

Thanks a lot. Thanks for talking to us. All right, man. You got to be quick and slick.

It takes a lot of work, though. Okay, buddy. Okay.

God bless. Now, Alberto. Hey, buddy. We're sorry. We're out of time, man. Sorry for waiting for so long. Go back tomorrow.

Okay. Hey, there's the music, folks. We are out of time. May the Lord bless you. And by his grace, we'll be back on here tomorrow.

I hope you enjoyed the show. And by his grace, we'll talk to you then. See you. Have a good evening. God bless. Have a good evening.