Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you want you can give me a call and as usual the number is 8772072276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call.

We have five open lines, wide open. And so let's see, tonight I'm teaching a Bible study. I'll start it in about three and a half hours from now at 7.30 my time, which is 9.30 Eastern time, and I plan to do a little study on eschatology. And what I'm going to do, because people asked, I've been going through Philippians, but people are saying, hey, could you do eschatology? And I'm going to do eschatology. So if you're interested in a view that I hold, which is interesting, I'm going to teach through it. I'm going to go through Matthew 24, probably some Luke 17, Matthew 13, 2 Thessalonians 2. I'm going to show some stuff.

It may take one to two hours in the study to go through everything and explain some of the stuff I'm holding to. And I say take it with a grain of salt, because my last name is slick. You've got to be careful. But I'll be doing that live also. I'll be spreading that for everybody to be cursed by or watch. And I'll do it probably on YouTube as well. I'll probably just do, I don't know, I'll do it on Matt Slick YouTube, probably do Matt Slick YouTube, and also on Kacom Facebook.

So I'll be doing those. We'll figure it out. I'll get a missed watch, and we'll get the information out there. So there you go, there you go, there you go.

We have four open lines now if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. And let's see, today is the 17th, and I just now am updating the link information on the CARM website. So if you want to watch me do the show, as I usually say, it's incredibly exciting sitting here watching me just talk.

So if that sounds good, like something you want to participate in, then all you've got to do is go to the CARM.org website, C-A-R-M.org. On the right-hand side, you'll see Matt Slick live. Click on that.

You'll see the link for the stuff, and you can click, and then you can watch. And there's a chat room. And it's really cool.

That's what the good thing is, is not to get to watch me. Who cares? We've got some great people in the room. We have, let's see, Ellie is in there, and Robert, he's from Romania.

I think he's from Romania. Laura, Vicki, we have others who are coming in, and usually it's 30, 40 people. And we've become a nice little community. It is, it's nice. All right. Having said all of that, number out again, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Mitchell from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Mitchell, welcome. You're on the air. Hello. How you doing? Doing all right, man. Hanging in there.

What do you got, buddy? What did Jesus mean whenever he said, before Moses was, I am? Before Abraham was, I am. Yeah, Abraham, sorry, yeah.

Yeah, before Abraham was, I am. They wanted to kill him for saying that. Now, why would they want to kill him for saying that?

Because in Exodus 3, 14, Moses was at the burning bush. And Moses was talking to God. And he said, he asked him, what's your name?

You know, who am I going to tell him? He sent me. And he says, God says, I am that I am, thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I am has sent me to you. So Jesus said in John 19, 24, he said, unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins. And then a few verses later in John 8, 56, he says, Abraham rejoiced to see my day. And he saw it and was glad. And they said, you're not yet 50 years old and you've seen Abraham. But he says, truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. And they picked up stone to throw at him, but he hid himself. So that's what's going on.

Jesus was claiming to be the I am. OK? OK. Thanks, buddy. OK. All right, man, God bless. Thank you. All right.

All right. Also, folks, now that's interesting. A lot of people, they'll get that. And they read John 8, 58, and before Abraham was, I am. They want to kill him.

But check this out. There's no mentioning of anyone wanting to stone Jesus until after he says something just two chapters later in John 10, 30, I and the Father are one. And Jews pick up stones again to stone him. And he said, well, why do you want to kill me? And they said, because you, being a man, make yourself out to be God.

So what was he saying that was causing them to think that? Well, if you go and you realize, he says, I and the Father are one. There is a very interesting verse, Deuteronomy 6, 4. It's called a Shema. Here, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And the word one there is akad. And it means a unit that's composed of things. Where yakid means just one thing, like one pencil. But yakid is a bunch, one bunch of apples, one bunch of bananas. That kind of a thing is saying the Lord is one, like one composite unit of things. And so it's my opinion that when Jesus says, I and the Father are one, that he was alluding to the Shema. And he was claiming that title for himself.

And so they want to kill him for that as well. That's what I believe. Laura from Raleigh, North Carolina. Laura, welcome.

You're on the air. Hi. How are you doing?

I'm doing all right, hanging in there. Let's see what you got. Oh, great.

Let me take your speaker. Yeah, I'm curious. All the mess is going on, or has been going on, for the last year. And the administration that we currently have, unfortunately. The elitists that are being, hopefully, being taken down. Do you know what part of Revelation that would be in?

No. The Book of Revelation just talks about various things. But if you're talking about particularly issues in America, what's happening, and the corruption that's there, I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly where. I'm not an expert in Revelation.

But Revelation talks about the coming of the Antichrist, as does Thessalonians, which means there's an apostasy. I'll be talking about this tonight, as a matter of fact. Oh, wow.

Coincidentally enough, right? And I haven't called in about two years. I just spoke with you. I haven't called in two years. What the heck? Where have you been? What's up? Wow.

Well, you're nasty. Well, anyway, enjoy your show. And I just told a cab driver, a friend of mine, he's also a believer, to check you out tonight. He says, I already listened to him. Yes, I'm going to be doing eschatology. And something else I've been doing, in fact, if people want to help me out, I'm just going to throw this out, is I just last night started to begin a list of, I call it my list of things.

And the list has to do with just what you're talking about, the government corruption and things like that. Oh, boy, yeah. Because last night, I was in another chat room, and I started talking about this. And I couldn't believe that. I just started talking about it, and more and more people are asking. And I realized I need to get more documentation. And so one of the things is the government requiring vaccinations for citizens, yet encouraging illegals to enter by the thousands who are not vaccinated, while violating our own laws.

Then flying those same illegals into our country under the cover of night. Oh, my Lord, that's why I was just talking to my friend about an hour ago, and it said the same thing. Yep. No, they closed the churches, and they leave the alcohol, the clubs open, the massage halls, wobbly, on and on and on.

Uh-huh, casinos. Why? Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Yep, that's exactly right. And I got a list here of like 20 things, but COVID vaccines are dangerous to some degree. And vaccines, air quotes, you know how vaccines are. You can get shots. Oh, yeah. I unfortunately got one and a booster, but I will never get it again, mandate or not.

Did you get sick? No. OK, good, good. Now, I'm not saying they don't help. You need a little bit.

I don't think they don't help. But there's too much information. There's too much evidence to show that they're actually killing people. And I've done it before, but I've done it regularly. I can tell people. I can walk them through.

I might do it after the show if people want to watch. But on a video, I can show them how to go to the CDC website and run their own reports off the CDC. It's easy to do. But there's all kinds of stuff.

The corruption, the banks, people urging the banks to cancel conservative financial accounts, teaching education. Are you kidding me? What's that? Well, I'm not surprised, though. Oh, yeah. And then, plus socialism is being taught in our schools, defunding the police while releasing criminals, leftist policies that encourage homeless camps, rampant drug abuse, voter fraud evidence is coming out that the Dems are liars. They're liars, man, those leftists. Oh, they'll get away with it. Oh, they will, because they're the ones in power. But only so far, because God sees everything.

That's right. But they don't care. And I get a whole list of stuff I'm putting together to show we're in bad shape.

The country's in bad shape. And then I'll talk about what we can do. I know that. I've been writing articles. It wasn't all done in a year, but a lot, it came to surface, all this. Yes.

Actually, look, at the end of this day. Oh, yeah, there's all kinds of stuff. In the last year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But where else can I find you or can we on what you're discussing tonight or talking about tonight? Well, if you send me a $20 bill, you see, then I can. OK. Well, you didn't get it yet? No, I'm kidding. No, what you do is you just go on, I'll put it on CARM Facebook tonight.

That's 930 Eastern Time. CARM, so go to Facebook, go to Facebook? And just look up CARM.org. Yeah, Facebook. And let's see, I'm going to do it right now.

Facebook. C-A-R-M or C-A-R? C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. OK. OK. And let me tell you, my view of end times is not the common one.

It's not the popular one. And I get another thing I call it. I listen to you every night for 24th weekend hour for the last, yeah. But I call it depressed-catology. Depressed-catology is going to get bad.

Maybe I'll enter in, I'll tiptoe in there or something. Yeah. Facebook, CARM, Facebook. Facebook and CARM.

Yes. .CARM. It's just Facebook. Actually, it's Facebook.com, of course, forward slash CARM.org. C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. OK. I'll read my cap on.

C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. You'll get to the CARM.org Facebook account. And in fact, if you go there right now, you'll see me sitting in my chair with my blue shirt on and my headset and everything talking. You're sticking your tongue out at me.

I know you've got it. I heard you when you get impatient with people, but I don't blame you. No, I try. So I thought, uh-oh, you get impatient with me. No, I try not to get impatient with people. People tell me I'm very patient. I know that. I figured that. Unless you're a jerk, I want to be listening to you for this long.

Well, my wife calls me a jerk. I thank you. I'm holding up other people possibly.

No, there's nobody waiting. OK, well, it sounds like, all right, well, God bless. God bless you, my friend, my brother. Thank you for what you do. All right, Laura, God bless.

Whoops, I thought she was done. So yeah, T-shirt Thursday, Joanne. I did, we have a thing, I forget to tell you, we have nobody waiting right now. But I normally don't wear T-shirts, but because my wife said this is a really nice shirt and color on me, and it's new, that's why I wore it today, because it's nice. So there you go, Joanne.

That's from the chat room. And folks are going to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Yes, tonight I will be teaching on eschatology. I'm going to go through some stuff, show you some stuff. And I'm going to show you how things are going to get worse and worse and worse.

That's according to what the scripture says. Hey, give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the show.

Let's see, about 20 after. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Brandon from Hawaii. Hey, let's go, Brandon. What's up, buddy? I'm sure you've never heard that one before.

Never, not this yesterday at all. So what do you got, man? I have a question for a friend, and he's really been struggling with this. Her question is, should she consider leaving her church on the basis that there is no evangelism?

And then here's a little back story he has written. She joined her church just over a year ago, but feel like she's slowly losing her fire. She's spoken to her pastor one-on-one to suggest ways that they could possibly go out and serve the community as a church, and ways to get people into the church. They're a small congregation, maybe about 20 people. There used to be more, but they've lost members over the last few years. So far, her efforts and suggestions have kind of been shut down, and there always seems to be a reason given as to why he can't do this or can't do that.

Usually it's small numbers. They pray for growth every Wednesday, but when she suggests ways they can actively do things, she's told it's a good idea, but then she's shut down or they never follow through with them. I guess some advice for her there would be great. Leave. Just leave. That's what I told her.

Yeah. I mean, the church's job, the job of the pastor is to equip the members of the church there for the work of ministry. And I'm going to go to Ephesians chapter 4 and go over this, because this is what the job of the pastor is to do. Ephesians 4 and verse 11. And he, Jesus, gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry to the building of the body of Christ.

So this is what they're supposed to do. Is the pastor equipping the saints for the work of service to the goal of building up the body of Christ? Now, technically we'd say, well, where's evangelism in that? Well, since Jesus said go out and make disciples of all nations, then we know that that is part of the work of service. That's not to say that every single church has to always be evangelizing. Sometimes it just doesn't work.

You might have a bunch of blue hairs, and they just don't go door to door. They might do something a different way, and that's OK. But if they, like she said, if they're praying for evangelism or praying for the expansion of the church, and then they don't do anything to do that, well, it's a problem. And it actually reminds me of a church I served in, where they asked me, what do we do to get more people in?

I said, you want to really know? Yeah, stop playing organ music. I said, the organs, you hear them in funeral parlors and horror movies. OK, don't play organ music. And your hymns, well, mix some hymns, at least with some moderates, so people don't listen to hymns.

Oh, I can't do that. And what their idea of evangelism was, open the door, teach perfection, and hopefully the unbelievers will come in. And that way, they aren't inconvenienced not to go do anything, because people get used to being comfortable. So is that what's happening with this lady's church, too? Same kind of thing, you've got to wonder. Yeah, she suggested maybe some coffee in the morning at times and to get some people in there. And they shot her down, different things.

Wait a minute, you mean something as simple as having coffee at the church to get people in, and they said no? Right, right. Yep, I know. You may know her, by the way, MG in chat.

But yeah, it's disappointing, because she's typing there. But yeah, she suggested a food donation box one time, and it's like pulling teeth to get them to do something like that. You know, if I were a pastor again, and someone came out to me, and I knew them well enough, because you know, make sure they're really legit and all that kind of stuff. And they said, I have an idea. And we had a church building, and they said, I'm thinking about this idea.

What do you think? Opening up the church in the mornings to have coffee, you know, free coffee for people to come in. We have fellowship, maybe have a study. You know, say a woman's group. I'd say, yeah, sounds good to me. You know, let's see if we can do it, arrange it.

And if it doesn't work out, and she comes back in a couple, three months, and it just flopped, you go, OK, that's all right. No sweat, but praise God, you know, you're doing something. I'd love people like that in my congregation. Wow. Oh, yeah.

They're lucky to have her in their time. Yeah. For sure. MG, huh? Yep. Yep, I'm looking. That's right.

I used to paint evangelists who left due to COVID, but my question to them is, why can't we do it? MG, I like you. You're good. Yeah, she's a good egg. Yeah, she is, yeah. Need more people like her.

That's good. And she likes to make sandwiches. And what's that? She likes to make sandwiches, too. Because, oh, man, I'm going to get myself in trouble. Maybe they could have a, you know, a thing at the church.

How to, for women, on how to make sandwiches. I like what you're thinking there, yes. What's that?

I like the idea. And people don't understand why I say that's a joke. It's been a long-running gag. Because years ago, when our daughters were very young, we were watching VeggieTales. And I forgot which one.

But Queen Esther, whatever, got kicked out of the kingdom because she wouldn't make her king a sandwich. And I said to my wife, go, hey, hon. My wife's rubbing her forehead, oh, no. I go, hey, hon, did you see that?

You got to make sandwiches. And so, you know, the stupid me, I lashed on that like a monkey in a cupcake. So ever since. It tickles you, right?

Yes, it does. But you know, I like joking around. And as people say to me, you know, they say, man, you just dig yourself a hole.

You know, give me a shovel. You know, and so when I was at the other radio station, I don't know, five, seven years ago, and someone called up and said, what's the woman's job in the church? Oh, boy. I just said, make sandwiches. And to me, the producer's a woman. She knew I was joking around. And she's glaring through the glass at me. And I said, what? And I started describing her to the everybody's listening. Guess what?

You should see her face right now. Stupid fun. So that's why I like it stupid fun. I get myself in trouble. Now it's also served coffee. Make sandwiches and serve coffee. Serve.

That's right. And if my wife's listening right now, she's just going, oh, yeah, there he goes again. So that's what you do, you know? Because guys are supposed to be a little bit obnoxious. That just keeps their wives interested. Because that's how I got my wife.

Because I would look like a bag of logs rolling down a hill. And so she's a good-looking woman. And so the only way I could win her was by being obnoxious and irritating and activating two things all women have, the bewilder filter and the mother against the drive-thru. Well, I will take that advice and be even more obnoxious.

That's right. In fact, if you get my book, which is online on Amazon, How to Woo and Win Women by Being an Obnoxious Jerk, that's the real title. It has a test in there to see how obnoxious you are and how much of a jerk you are.

I'm telling you, if you pass both tests, you're guaranteed to be married within two years. It's awesome. So they're helping me. OK. All right, hey, folks, we're out of time there.

I love having fun. Hey, give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back.

I hope you enjoyed this stupidity that I was sharing with you a little bit before the break. 877-207-2276. All you got to do is give me a call.

We have four open lines. All right, let's get to John from North Carolina. John, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt.

Hey. You know, last fall, you sparked several small questions. The first one is, why can't you be a virtual pastor? I've asked you this before, but why can't you have a virtual church? Well, is a virtual church really a church?

Because generally, a church is where you have communion, baptism, and things like that, and elders involved. And the thing is, like, for example, yesterday I spent some time working on a tract for, two tracts, for Nigeria. I spend time polishing my apologetics approaches talking to atheists, which I did for a couple of hours today. And I also am working on my eschatology lesson for tonight. So when I'm a pastor, people want to call, and they want to talk for a long period of time.

And I'm not knocking that. It's just, I have so much to do. And so... You always have an answer.

What's that? You always have an answer. Well, that's just it, you know. I accept that.

That makes a lot of sense. I mean, you're up until two o'clock in the morning, and, yeah, you got me. But people have wanted me to be a pastor again, and I would under a certain, if you say this, I would under one condition. If men around me, and women, but men around me, would do all of the everything else work, and all I had to do was preach and teach, and occasionally counsel, then I could do it.

But they had to do all the other work because I'm just too busy, and that would be it. So there you go. Yeah. People doing the right job. Yeah. It's been difficult trying to resettle, but I'm doing that. So one of the fun questions is, do you know Gene Shepard?

No. He was a radio personality in New York when I was a kid. I'm about a year and a quarter under you. He's the one who wrote Christmas Story as a narration. When you do your, I was listening to February 9th when I was like, oh, it's 10 after 6.

Let me get online, because I don't often get to hear you live. When you have your hate mail, you get so animated. I love it. It's like listening to his radio show back in the 60s. It's so fun. You sound just like him when you start with the little hoots and all the caricatures that you do.

It's extremely entertaining. I can't remember what my other question was. If I say, I'm gonna toot my own horn here, but believe it or not, okay, I'm very serious theologically. I do debate.

I do very intellectual stuff, but I goof around a lot. People just don't really know that on radio, because that's okay, but when my friends come over for Bible study tonight, I'm insulting them right away. I just jump right in, and I go for it. They don't feel loved if I'm not insulting them, so I threaten them.

I say, look, next time I preach, I'm using you as an example of total depravity. They love that stuff, so I like to have a lot of fun. I do.

I have a good sense of humor, too. I do. I will say that. I agree. Yeah. I agree. I do remember my last question.

Okay. As a Christian soldier, what rank would you say you are? Christian soldier?

A private, first-class latrine cleaner. No, no, no, no. You've got to at least be a drill sergeant. Drill sergeant? Yeah. At least. Yeah. I've been called a gunslinger with a Bible. Okay.

I've been called that, which I thought was kind of funny, but a drill sergeant, maybe. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I would like to admit to people that the sins that I have in my past and some of the things that I am very, very heartfelt, overwhelmed about, I hope that I could clean latrines in heaven. But just being able, or worse, just being able to be there is great satisfaction.

I don't deserve it. That's right. Thankful. That's right.

That's right. That means you know the Lord Jesus and what he's done and how great he is and that we are saved by his grace and kept by his grace. And it's only by his grace will you ever get to enter into his presence and enjoy the blessing of salvation forever.

And he gets all the glory. I certainly hope so because I go through a lot of weeping at heartfelt stuff and sometimes I wonder is it because I'm weeping out of love or concern or out of joy or I hope it's not that I'm weeping because I'm not, just because of the things that I've done in the past. Well, let me tell you something.

I'm definitely not happy about. Well, you and I both, I've got some things that are atrociously bad. But here's a verse that I think is apropos and it's Romans 6.21, it's one of my favorite verses. Therefore, what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you're now ashamed for the outcome of those things is death.

And I love that because it's true. So I am ashamed of my past but blessed in the present. And so I don't look back like Lot's wife except sometimes to be thankful for what I'm saved.

But don't look back and dwell in that but look forward to the cross and move that way and realize that from the foundation of the universe that Jesus decided to save me even though he knew everything about me. So I do appreciate that very much. That's it. Thank you brother, blessings to you and how's your wife?

What's that? How's your wife? She's doing better.

Even though you just murdered her on the radio a minute ago. She's doing better. She has a, I don't want to say too much, she doesn't like me talking about her too much on here. But she's got, as everybody knows, you know, people generally know, she has an incredibly rare connective tissue disorder along with osteoporosis and she has, because of that, it's so bad that she has fractures here and there in her bones and she's healing up from a new one from that in an inconvenient area.

And so she's just dealing with that and she's a good woman, except for Tasted Men, but she's a good woman and she has to go get weekly tests or every other week tests for blood tests and you know, it just goes on and on. But I want to get her on the air. She hates the idea of public speaking but she's great. We had her on the radio once years ago. We lost a bet with one of our daughters and she had to get on the air. But I want her to come on the air because I want her to talk about what she's going through and talk about her faith in the Lord because there are a lot of people out there who don't have a voice like I do and who are going through great trauma, great difficulties and to hear from someone who is in the middle of it and is praising God, I think that would be very helpful and very encouraging for them. So I'm trying to get her on.

I will support her that day. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, brother. All right. You're welcome, buddy. Well, God bless. All right. Hey, folks. We have nobody waiting.

If you want to give me a call, 8772072276. So earlier I was saying, you know, if you want, you can email me at info at karne.org and you can email me about some of the things that's going on in our country because I'm going to do an article that's listing some of the things, how bad things are and how our country is on the decline. And it is.

It's on the decline. It's because of the leftist policies that they would just simply get out of our pockets and get out of our homes and get out of the stupidity of the left. They're destroying our country and then they blame everybody else. This is the idiocy. And it's like Trudeau up there in Canada, you know, just a dictator, suspending all laws and declaring martial law and thinking that's going to solve problems.

It's not. He created the problems. Now he wants to make more problems. You know, it's just, I get so sick and tired of the idiocy of the governmental leaders.

So if you have things like this particular instance, you know, I could have a list of stuff here. You know, the government requiring vaccines for citizens, yet encouraging illegals to enter by the thousands, flying them around. The forced vaccines, or you lose your job or how about a Russia gate with, with Trump, how the media went after him so badly and there's no evidence. And then not that I vote for Trump, but that they did that. And now when Hillary's being exposed, they ignore it. The hypocrisy stuff like this, and there's a whole bunch more stuff like this, you got to understand folks, that's the heartbeat of our country. And it's getting weaker and weaker because wickedness is on the rise.

The Christians have got to be aware of this. Anyway, hey, five open lines. Give me a call. 877-207-2276. It's Matt Slick live. Taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show, the last segment of the R. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276, that's 877-207-2276. All right, let's get to Tommy from Utah.

Tommy, welcome. You're on the air. Hello? Hello. You're on the air, big guy. Ah, thank you. Hey, I don't have a question about the Trinity.

I'm pretty... Okay. I'm good on my understanding about that. And I don't have a question about what Christ has done for us on the cross. But I do have a question of if the Trinity is always the triune God, when Christ was on the cross and said, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me, and I've heard everyone preaches that God literally turned his back on the Son, but how can that be if the triune God is always one?

Well, I'm with you. I think there's a problem to say he turned his back on the Son, because the scripture doesn't say that. And so I don't like to say that. A lot of preachers, they will just say, well, that means God turned his back. Where does it mean, or where do you show my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? It means God turned, God the Father turned his back on Jesus.

Where's that? And what does it mean to turn his back on Jesus? I just don't see that in scripture.

I don't think it's a good thing for people to say, because they don't know what it means, just like saying God's outside of time, and I ask them, well, what does that mean? I don't know. What are you saying it for? All right, now, we do know that he was quoting Psalm 22, verse 1, right? Yeah. You know that.

Okay. So in Psalm 22, it's a messianic Psalm, and in it, it contains the issue of the crucifixion, which is prophesied a thousand years before Christ was born, Psalm 22. So he, at the very least, is alluding to that. Now, remember, Jesus has two natures, a divine nature and a human nature, and the attributes of both natures are ascribed to the single person, that's called the communication of the properties.

So the one person would say, I'm hungry, I am thirsty, and I'll be with you always. So he's claiming human attributes and divine attributes. So in Luke 22, 42, Jesus says, not my will, but your will be done, because he didn't want to go through the crucifixion. It was a horrible ordeal, and he knew it was coming, yet he voluntarily went through it. And he did not want to go through it, because he says, if there's any way for this to pass. The thing is, if you think about it, he knew from eternity that there is no way to pass. Why would he then pray if there's any way? Because in the attribution of humanity, he doesn't want to go through this.

And the attributes of humanity are ascribed to the single person, he doesn't want to go through it. But he also knows at the same time, nevertheless, not my will, but your will. He knows from eternity the will of the Father, is that Jesus do this, the son that would do this. So also, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? In this kind of a context, when I look at this, I know right away it's a prophetic pronouncement.

He's fulfilling prophecy, and he's calling attention to himself in the Old Testament and how it points to Christ. But when we say, forsaken me, well, God the Father, how can the God the Father forsake the son? It cannot be in the ontological essence of the Trinity, where the nature of all the members of the Godhead are one in essence, there cannot be any division. That would violate the nature of God himself. So it cannot be in the ontological separation. But since Jesus became sin, 2 Corinthians 5.21, he bore sin in his body on the cross, Peter 2.24, some theologians wonder if there was a, and I'm going to say this carefully, a disruption in the fellowship within the Godhead. If there was a disruption in the fellowship, it does not mean there was a disruption in the ontological Trinity, but only in a fellowship sense, because Jesus became sin.

So some wonder if there was some kind of an effect. I can see that, but I'm not going to go that way, I'm not going to lean that way. I think what's going on is he's got nails in his wrists, he's got nails in his feet or a nail in his feet. He's been beaten, his back is ripped open, he's got a crown of thorns. And I think what he's doing is actually vocalizing the agony of his situation, like saying, God, you've forsaken me. But he knows God has not forsaken him.

Because God says, I'll never leave you or forsake you. I think it's Hebrews 10.5, I think. He's talking about us as people, and obviously it applies to the son as well. So I think what's going on, this is my opinion, having said all of this, I think what he was primarily doing was pointing to himself in scripture, because he does say in John 5.39, he starts the scriptures because then you think you have eternal life, but as these are witness of me. And so when he was saying this, he was primarily pointing to the scriptures. And I think he was just exemplifying the situation that he was in and quoting scripture, but how much of that scripture is a hyperbole, is an exaggeration, is a Jewish way of speaking. And all the world came to this door.

Why are you forsaking me? This kind of exaggeration that sometimes would happen. So I can't help but wonder if there might be some of that in there. When I look at all of this, I think there's probably a little bit of exaggeration, because that's the Jewish mind. Truly, truly, truly, I say to you, Jesus is our only Lord and Master, Jude 4. He has a name which no one knows except himself, Revelation 19.12 says. There are certain things that are stated but cannot be believed as being absolutely literal, because that's how the Jewish thinking was.

And it carries with it a meaning deeper, often, than what the literal meaning is. So he's forsaken. Well, in one sense we could say that he was forsaken because, well, he didn't want to go through the crucifixion, but he's going through it. On the other hand, he submitted to the will of the Father, Luke 22.42, and on the other hand, he's quoting scripture pointing to himself about what it is, fulfilling the Word of God and the eternal plan of God. So I think all of this is mixed up in that statement, okay?

Okay. Now I have, so the one explanation you gave, so this is kind of how I see it, is that God cannot look on any sin, and if he took on the sin of you and me, then how could he look upon him while he was bearing our sin? Yeah, see, now, when it says, you know, you've got an issue, his eyes are too pure to look upon evil. I forgot what that is.

Habakkuk, I think. Well, that means he can't look upon me. And what about the other people who are evil? Does he not look at them? Well, it's not saying he doesn't look at them. What it's generally saying is he doesn't look upon it with evil without considering its evilness.

He's certainly aware of what evil is. So it's talking about his holiness. Now when Jesus became sin on our behalf, some think that because of something like that, that verse, that what he's saying there is that he stopped looking at him. Well, wait a minute. Looking at him? And so what does it mean?

They'll say, well, he turned his back. What does it mean? See, this is a difficult verse, and I don't like... It is.

Yeah. I don't like to say too much about it because it doesn't tell us what it means. I think the proper thing to do is say, here are two, three, four, five possible explanations. There's probably a level of truth in all of them, but we need to be careful not to raise any one above another and say, this is how it must be understood.

That's the care that I take. Yeah, the whole reason I ask the question is because I've been thinking about it for quite a while, and last week I heard Erwin Lutzer say that exact thing, that God turned his back on the sun, and that really got me questioning, because that's what I've always heard and what people always preach. Well, the thing I would ask, if someone said that to me, I'd say, okay, what does it mean he turned his back on the sun? Can you tell me what that means? If I turn my back on a friend, it means I'm deserting my friend.

I don't have anything to do with my friend anymore. Is that what's happening with a father and a son, to turn their back on them? People say things, but I ask them, what does it mean? What do you mean by that? I'm not mad, and I'm not trying to corner them, I'm just saying, what does that mean? Just asking the question, and generally they don't know, and yet they'll say it.

Well, then my question is, then why are you saying it if you don't know? Yeah. You see? Well, you've really helped me out.

I see a lot clearer. I know that it comes from Psalm 22. I really put a lot into Psalm 22.

I really think it's an amazing set of scriptures. Yeah, it is. Yep. But I appreciate your time and what you do, and I listen to you as often as I can, and I learn so much from you, and I thank God for people like you to teach me more. Well, you know, you're welcome, but the Lord gets the glory, because he's just used a broken vessel, just a broken vessel, and that's it. And so...

I can relate to that. Yeah. And just praise God. He's called different people. He uses me even when I don't try. Yeah, he can use us in spite of ourselves, can't he? Yes.

Yeah. I think I told a story recently, because there's nobody waiting, so we've only got a couple minutes left, but I remember I talked to a guy years and years and years and years ago. He told me that 15 years earlier from then that I was talking to him and said something so profound that it changed his life. And I said, really? Well, what was it I said? And he told me, and I can't remember what it was, but I do remember this. It was so insignificant that I was shocked. I said, that changed your life? And what that told me was that God was the one who was working. That's all. Oh, yeah. And that's it.

He uses even just one word sometimes. Ever since I got saved, I didn't get saved until I was 56, and I evangelized everyone. Good for you. And I talked to God about, or everyone about God, and sometimes it's only one word is all that needs to be said, so I'm just amazed at the things God will lay out for you if you ask him to show you who to minister to and when. That's right.

Yeah. You know, I tell people God isn't looking necessarily for the experts with all the degrees. He's looking for people who are willing to be used, and just say, I don't care, Lord. Just use me. What do you want me to do?

It could be tying someone's shoe when they can't really bend over too well. You say, hey, praise God, I'm glad to help you, and you walk away, and you don't know. That phrase could echo in someone's heart because of conditions that God has raised.

We just don't know. What we should do is, you know, just to live by faith, we're to live by faith and trust that God can use us and will use us and just move forward. Well, he uses me almost every day, so it's all... He uses you every day? Oh, boy.

You walk almost every day. What I say... Here, you'll like this phrase.

If God's got to use someone like me, then it must be pretty bad out there. Yeah, so you probably would like that one. That's very good. Very good. But it's true. He's got to be desperate.

He's got to use someone like me. Thank you, Matt. There you go, brother. God bless you. All right, man. God bless. All right.

That was Tommy from Utah. We're out of time. There's the music. The Lord bless you. Peace and good-bye. We'll tell you tonight on Eschatology and how bad things are going to be. I know.

Depressed scatology. It'll be on Facebook, karm.org, tonight at 7.30 Eastern. Time of joy. Hey, folks. God bless. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Praise grace. See you. This is a program powered by the Truth Network.